Taliban Shoot Helicopter Killing BinLaden 'Death Team'

[aadil77]

Afghanistan Helicopter Crash: More Than 20 Navy SEAL Team 6 Members Killed

WASHINGTON -- The Associated Press has learned that more than 20 Navy SEALs from the unit that killed Osama bin Laden were among those lost in a helicopter crash in Afghanistan.

The operators from SEAL Team Six were flown by a crew of the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment. That's according to one current and one former U.S. official. Both spoke on condition of anonymity because families are still being notified of the loss of their loved ones.

One source says the team was thought to include 22 SEALs, three Air Force air controllers, seven Afghan Army troops, a dog and his handler, and a civilian interpreter, plus the helicopter crew.

The sources thought this was the largest single loss of life ever for SEAL Team Six, known as the Naval Special Warfare Development Group.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_920147.html

Funny how fate catches up to you. These seals were carrying out a night raid on homes of taliban members, 8 taliban were killed, as they were leaving the chopper gets shot down by an rpg - turns out 20 of the seals killed were behind Bin Laden's murder.

[Ramadhan]

Interesting article:
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/08...ep-them-quiet/

[Who Am I?]

:sl:

A lot of my "rah rah rah patriot go USA" buddies on Facebook were posting about this over the weekend.

It never occurred to me that it was a plot to keep them quiet, but it makes sense. Rule number one of assassinations is: assassinate the assassin.

I thought of it more as poetic justice for the supposed killing (I'm still not convinced that OBL is dead, not without a body or pictures) without a trial of a man who may or may not have been responsible for terrorist activities (I'm not convinced that Al-Quaeda was behind 9/11).

[shible]

Interesting article:
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/08...ep-them-quiet/

Interesting angle.

need to stay put to learn more on this vision.

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[MartyrX]

I read about this. Kind of convenient, but these are soldiers and soldiers die.

[aadil77]

Interesting article:
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/08...ep-them-quiet/

The article basically points the fingers towards zionist jews who are apparently running america and made up the whole bin laden saga, started all the wars to kill muslims etc etc

seems a lot of americans believe this

I have no idea who to believe anymore

[جوري]

subscribessssssssssssss..

[Perseveranze]

Sounds like justice may have been done.

[Just_A_Girl13]

Rule number one of assassinations is: assassinate the assassin.

Salaam,

I always thought rule number one was don't get caught ;D

[Karl]

Traditionally fighting at night was considered low and underhanded and very bad form. Only brigands and soldiers that worshipped evil would fight at night.

[Ramadhan]

Quite Interesting. The interviews at the end reveals it all.

I always thought the most advanced helicopter crashing in abbottabad for no apparent reason was so implausible.
I guess if you can blow up a tower, then a helicopter, regardless how advanced it is, is a piece of cake.

[ابن آل مرة]

It's not even 'Eid yet.

May Allah cause 1000 chinooks to crash by the hands of the Mujahideen.

[Who Am I?]

Salaam,

I always thought rule number one was don't get caught ;D

Well it depends on who you are. If you're the assassin, don't get caught. If you're the one who hired the assassin, assassinate the assassin.

[User29123]

No offensive but I don' think the Americans are going to wake up.

Seal team 6 killl OBL (remember seal team 6 did not know who their target was until they got into the helicopter AFAIK that's how they are trained)

They destroy the secret helicopter, some Pakistani eyewitness said that it blew up as it climbed up. (so soldiers were inside)


Now the team behind OBL killing is dead, what a load of bull,

Simple they went in killed the guy, heard on the news some stuff about OBL government needed seal team 6 to keep shut..

[Who Am I?]

No offensive but I don' think the Americans are going to wake up.

Seal team 6 killl OBL (remember seal team 6 did not know who their target was until they got into the helicopter AFAIK that's how they are trained)

They destroy the secret helicopter, some Pakistani eyewitness said that it blew up as it climbed up. (so soldiers were inside)


Now the team behind OBL killing is dead, what a load of bull,

Simple they went in killed the guy, heard on the news some stuff about OBL government needed seal team 6 to keep shut..

:sl:

I'm not totally convinced that OBL was "killed" during that "raid" by Seal Team 6. I think he was either already long dead before that or he is still alive somewhere. Until I see a body or pictures, I won't believe that this "raid" was anything more than a ploy for Obama to regain his falling popularity.

[aadil77]

:sl:

I'm not totally convinced that OBL was "killed" during that "raid" by Seal Team 6. I think he was either already long dead before that or he is still alive somewhere. Until I see a body or pictures, I won't believe that this "raid" was anything more than a ploy for Obama to regain his falling popularity.

Well according to that link bro Ramadhan posted, OBL died whilst still working for the CIA in 2001 and his body was frozen by the CIA

[User29123]

:sl:

I'm not totally convinced that OBL was "killed" during that "raid" by Seal Team 6. I think he was either already long dead before that or he is still alive somewhere. Until I see a body or pictures, I won't believe that this "raid" was anything more than a ploy for Obama to regain his falling popularity.

Yes he either died in 2001 or he is alive but prisoned somewhere, but my guess is he is dead..

[Just_A_Girl13]

Well according to that link bro Ramadhan posted, OBL died whilst still working for the CIA in 2001 and his body was frozen by the CIA

Salaam,

First of all, what on earth would the CIA want with bin Laden's frozen body? Second of all, if this happened in 2001, why wouldn't they tell the American public? We all saw how they reacted when they heard the news-- there were people throwing parties all over the place. I fail to see the logic in this unless you believe that the CIA was somehow conspiring against Bush.

Peace

[Ramadhan]

Salaam,

First of all, what on earth would the CIA want with bin Laden's frozen body? Second of all, if this happened in 2001, why wouldn't they tell the American public? We all saw how they reacted when they heard the news-- there were people throwing parties all over the place. I fail to see the logic in this unless you believe that the CIA was somehow conspiring against Bush.

Peace

:sl:

Sister, have you forgotten why/how The US invaded Afghanistan in the first place and why they remained in there for a decade?
have you also forgotten why/how the US invaded Iraq in the first place?

or do/did you actually believe Saddam had WMD and was going to destroy the US?

[Just_A_Girl13]

:sl:

Sister, have you forgotten why/how The US invaded Afghanistan in the first place and why they remained in there for a decade?
have you also forgotten why/how the US invaded Iraq in the first place?

I have not. You make an excellent point; I hadn't thought of that.

or do/did you actually believe Saddam had WMD and was going to destroy the US?

Of course not.

[ProudMuslimSis]

My head is spinning! So hard to tell what is real these days.
Are there any pictures of the crash yet? Or, can they be manipulated too?
What can we believe? Who thinks of all these plans and cover ups?

[ProudMuslimSis]

Please find below the first picture that I was able to find. Also, see quote below regarding "US Chopper Crash Removes All Proof of Osama's Death!"

LAHORE: The US helicopter ‘accident’ in East Afghanistan in which 25 Navy SEALs perished has given rise to a number of questions. According to an Indian TV channel, the presence of as many as 25 SEALs in the same helicopter has astonished everyone. It is significant that 20 out of these 25 Navy SEALs were those who had taken part in Abbottabad ‘Get Osama Operation’.It is worth mentioning that neither any video of Osama Bin Laden’s killing has surfaced nor have any photographs been released.The only proof of the death of Osama Bin Laden (OBL) were the 20 Navy SEALs reportedly on board this helicopter and all of them died. Thus all proof of the death of Osama bin Laden have disappeared, according to the Indian report. Now what US Secretary of Defence says will be final and will have to be accepted.

In the past too there have been incidents that eyewitnesses of US operations and their confidants have been killed in ‘accidents’. The elimination of eyewitnesses of OBL’s death has shaken the American credibility.All the 20 SEALs were made to board the same helicopter. All of them perished in the disaster bringing an end to all the proofs about the death of OBL.
Now no one can say with certitude whether the helicopter had in fact met an accident or there were some other reasons of its destruction, said the report.

[Who Am I?]

Well according to that link bro Ramadhan posted, OBL died whilst still working for the CIA in 2001 and his body was frozen by the CIA

I read that link, but that story seems wildly far-fetched to me. Why would the CIA want to freeze anyone's body, much less OBL? I can see assassinating him and keeping it quiet, but why freeze his body? What were they going to do, weird science experiments with turning him into a zombie or something?

Again, I still believe that this "killing" of OBL was nothing more than a popularity boost for Obama's re-election campaign. Considering the timing of when he announced his campaign and when the news broke of OBL's "assassination", coupled with this story of the "helicopter crash" I believe that now more than ever.

[User29123]

Salaam,

First of all, what on earth would the CIA want with bin Laden's frozen body? Second of all, if this happened in 2001, why wouldn't they tell the American public? We all saw how they reacted when they heard the news-- there were people throwing parties all over the place. I fail to see the logic in this unless you believe that the CIA was somehow conspiring against Bush.

Peace

OK Sister let me clear some points eh :)

We all do not know the truth, but here are some assumptions.

There are a lot for stories on what could have happened to OBLs body.

First I don't think anyone heard of OBL before 9/11 lol, so they could have killed him before then made fake videos (US did admit in 2010 they made a false video of Bin Ladin)

Second if they killed him they must have buried him, no one knows then simple,

if they killed OBL then said oh we have killed him they would have to return from Afghan. If they waited longer they no longer need to return as the country is turned upside down now.

They failed to show the photos of OBL why? Because they killed him ages ago, they may have took photos or not, and no longer can show it....

btw check Alex Jones channel out on Youtube, guys a True American!

[IslamicRevival]

This is all a big con. Whoever thought of this movie style plot to Bin Ladens death deserves an oscar
My guess is Bin laden died many years ago. The US used this fake death storyline for their own agenda

[Just_A_Girl13]

:sl:

OK Sister let me clear some points eh :)

We all do not know the truth, but here are some assumptions.

There are a lot for stories on what could have happened to OBLs body.

First I don't think anyone heard of OBL before 9/11 lol, so they could have killed him before then made fake videos (US did admit in 2010 they made a false video of Bin Ladin)

Second if they killed him they must have buried him, no one knows then simple,

if they killed OBL then said oh we have killed him they would have to return from Afghan. If they waited longer they no longer need to return as the country is turned upside down now.

They failed to show the photos of OBL why? Because they killed him ages ago, they may have took photos or not, and no longer can show it....

Ah, I think I see why you believe that now. Although I must say (not specifically referring to you, but as a general rule) I can't see the benefit of all these conspiracy theories, I mean it's not like we can do anything about it if they did freeze his body so there's no point in being angry or upset about it. That's just my opinion though, and I can see why some people find it so difficult to trust our government :p

[MartyrX]

I'm thinking OBL is dead and was probably killed in that raid. If he's still alive, then why didn't Al-Qaeda claim that he's alive? What better way to shame the U.S. then show them lying to the world? I doubt Obama used it to help his re-election considering how bad the economy is, and if he was going to do that, it might be better to save that information for closer to the elections next year. It'd give him a boost in popularity as it did and might carry over to the voters.

[ProudMuslimSis]

This is the most crucial time for Obama since he is trying to raise money for the re-election. He charged up to $35,800 per donor for his 50th birthday celebration! So, he needs good publicity right now especially since he has not kept his promises of removing the US troops.

The president's quick stop in Chicago is his first trip outside of the Washington region in more than a month. His bruising tussle with congressional Republicans over raising the government's debt ceiling has kept him in the nation's capital and left little time this summer to prepare for a Republican challenger in 2012. His campaign juggernaut is expected to at least match the $750 million he raised in 2008 but has tried to tamp down those lofty expectations only weeks after reporting a combined $86 million between the campaign and the Democratic National Committee in the spring.

Source

[Who Am I?]

This is all a big con. Whoever thought of this movie style plot to Bin Ladens death deserves an oscar
My guess is Bin laden died many years ago. The US used this fake death storyline for their own agenda

That's what I think too. OBL was long dead before this "raid" took place. As I've said, it was just a popularity stunt for Obama's re-election campaign. I refuse to believe anything else unless I see convincing evidence, and we're not going to see that.

[Abz2000]

Ko9, one reason to freeze a body would be to have the ability to pull it out at a later stage, or to have fresh DNA for planting in places you like to vilify,
Though - the reason they gave for not showing photos was "because the conspiracy theorists aren't going to believe it anyway" - what stupidness, why say it in the first place then, because I didn't believe the story anyway!

And regarding "jus a girl"'s comment on learning what happens and it's usefulness, it is very important to find out as much as you can, because next time they come out with a fake story, you'll be able to deduce and think a little more critically rather than believing everything they say off hand, When something happens.

6. O ye who believe! If a wicked person comes to you with any news, ascertain the truth, lest ye harm people unwittingly, and afterwards become full of repentance for what ye have done.
Quran 49:5


Also this vid was made 3 months before the actual event:

[Who Am I?]

:sl:

I don't know. It still seems too much like the plot of a bad science-fiction movie for my tastes. I'm not saying it's not true, but it's way out there if it is.

In any case, I still don't believe the "official" story, either about 9/11 or about OBL.

[Abz2000]

this was a double post - so i deleted it - ignore the links on this one as the're low res - the next post has links to full size images

[Abz2000]

I don't know. It still seems too much like the plot of a bad science-fiction movie for my tastes. I'm not saying it's not true, but it's way out there if it is.

In any case, I still don't believe the "official" story, either about 9/11 or about OBL.

how about this brother ko9:
the terrorism manual was made in aug 1997,
the wmd manual was june 2000


Attachment 4313Attachment 4314

i've also uploaded them in full size for your convenience - notice the crosshairs on the north tower - the only tower with the antenna on top

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...alhandbook.jpg

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...sshairs911.jpg

The Project for the New American Century (PNAC) was an American think tank based in Washington, D.C.. It was co-founded as a non-profit educational organization by neoconservatives William Kristol and Robert Kagan. The PNAC's stated goal was "to promote American global leadership."^[1]Fundamental to the PNAC were the view that "American leadership is both good for America and good for the world" and support for "a Reaganite policy of military strength and moral clarity."^[2] The PNAC exerted influence on high-level U.S. government officials in the administration of U.S. President George W. Bush and affected the Bush Administration's development of military and foreign policies, especially involving national security and the Iraq War.<sup>[3][4]

Section V of Rebuilding America's Defenses, entitled "Creating Tomorrow's Dominant Force", includes the sentence:
"Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one,
absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event––like a new Pearl Harbor"





and since you're into physics etc - here's the best one i've found:



peace</sup>

[Who Am I?]

:sl:

I'll have to check out those links when I get home. Work censorship and all.

[NobleMuslimUK]

Theres many things people fail to understand when the zionist media and the zionist govt of america comes out with such nonesense. First of all its a kind of closure for the people genuinely affected, people who lost loved ones in 9/11 attacks will feel justice is done along with majority of the sheep who believe osama is responsible for 9/11. Secondly after the fake assassination of osama, jew media and jew sources were in full propaganda roll about al qaeda will attack with a suit case nuke, or some sort of terrorist attack, the main source used was jewleaks(wikileaks), that the taliban has vowed to take revenge for osama's killing. I even remember the mi5 agents anjem chowdry etc coming out on the streets of london protesting the killing of osama. So this staged destruction of the chinook with the exact same seal team that took out osama was on board and taken out by taliban. Maybe taliban did destroy the chinook. But claims by the zionist well one of them can be shown true to the sheep, look taliban took their revenge.

Bottom line is al qaeda is not an organisation run by osama or the taliban, its an alias for mossad. cia. mi5 etc. When the zionist media tells us alqaeda is planning an attack, they are actually giving us a clue as to what their next false flag terrorist attack will be.

[Pygoscelis]

The one thought that goes through my mind when I hear 9/11 conspiracy theories is this: If the US government shadow organization is so good that it could plan and fake 9/11 as a false flag operation with nobody catching on, why couldn't they plant nuclear weapons in Iraq? Sure seems easier to me.

[Ramadhan]

The one thought that goes through my mind when I hear 9/11 conspiracy theories is this: If the US government shadow organization is so good that it could plan and fake 9/11 as a false flag operation with nobody catching on, why couldn't they plant nuclear weapons in Iraq? Sure seems easier to me.

Why would they do that when they already got by with only outright lying?

[Trumble]

Why would they do that when they already got by with only outright lying?

Why just "get by"? True, the action in Iraq wasn't stopped but when push comes to shove there's nobody who could have stopped it whatever was said or was (or wasn't) found. Not to mention the considerable political grief and loss of prestige when nothing was found after all. As Pygoscelis said any government that had planned and executed 9/11 (and was willing to take the horrendous political risk associated with that) would have had no trouble at all slipping a few bioweapons into warehouses or suitably amateur nukes into Scud casings in Iraq. So why didn't they? Because they hadn't seen an episode of the 'Lone Gunmen' which gave them the idea?!

The other obvious question is; as 'outright lying' would have no less effective regarding Afghanistan, or anywhere/thing else, why 9/11 with - as before, the unavoidable possibility the 'truth' would be exposed?

[Insecured soul]

The so called mighty united states and state of the art weaponry and technology, 10 years in war still not able to defeat taliban who fights with faith more and less with weapon. what has the united states achieved in 10 years? they have killed thousands of civilians there if they dont leave soon then im sure more ISAF soldiers will be killed and allah only helps the sabiruun and put thier trust in him

may allah azzawajal humiliate his enemy

[Who Am I?]

Theres many things people fail to understand when the zionist media and the zionist govt of america comes out with such nonesense. First of all its a kind of closure for the people genuinely affected, people who lost loved ones in 9/11 attacks will feel justice is done along with majority of the sheep who believe osama is responsible for 9/11. Secondly after the fake assassination of osama, jew media and jew sources were in full propaganda roll about al qaeda will attack with a suit case nuke, or some sort of terrorist attack, the main source used was jewleaks(wikileaks), that the taliban has vowed to take revenge for osama's killing. I even remember the mi5 agents anjem chowdry etc coming out on the streets of london protesting the killing of osama. So this staged destruction of the chinook with the exact same seal team that took out osama was on board and taken out by taliban. Maybe taliban did destroy the chinook. But claims by the zionist well one of them can be shown true to the sheep, look taliban took their revenge.

Bottom line is al qaeda is not an organisation run by osama or the taliban, its an alias for mossad. cia. mi5 etc. When the zionist media tells us alqaeda is planning an attack, they are actually giving us a clue as to what their next false flag terrorist attack will be.

:sl:

Every now and then, we get reports about a "terror alert". They keep dropping hints about another attack, but nothing has happened yet. I don't know if it's because they can't decide where they want the next attack to be or if they're having trouble working out the details of it.

Or they're just hoping that we all fall asleep and forget about 9/11.

[Trumble]

The so called mighty united states and state of the art weaponry and technology, 10 years in war still not able to defeat taliban who fights with faith more and less with weapon. what has the united states achieved in 10 years? they have killed thousands of civilians there...

You do know that your Taliban heroes have killed something like three times as many civilians as US, allied and Afghan Government forces put together don't you? With 'faith' and not 'weapon'? Get a clue... you may live in fairytale land but the Taliban and their victims certainly don't.

SOURCE

[Ramadhan]

Not to mention the considerable political grief and loss of prestige when nothing was found after all.

I see no political grief or loss of prestige for the USA. They are still the world's only superpower. And I haven't seen any political repercussion for those who lied to get to Iraq either.

The other obvious question is; as 'outright lying' would have no less effective regarding Afghanistan, or anywhere/thing else, why 9/11 with - as before, the unavoidable possibility the 'truth' would be exposed?

You are truly delusional. "outright lying" wouldn't cut it as an excuse to invade Afghanistan.
"outright lying" was sufficient to go into Iraq because of 9/11.
9/11 has served multiple uses/excuses/purposes, and if you can't see it, you must have been living in another planet in the past 10 years.

[Ramadhan]

You do know that your Taliban heroes have killed something like three times as many civilians as US, allied and Afghan Government forces put together don't you? With 'faith' and not 'weapon'? Get a clue... you may live in fairytale land but the Taliban and their victims certainly don't.

SOURCE

You need to read your source more carefully so as to avoid appearing lying. In the source it says:

The Taliban and other anti-government elements have been blamed for 2,080 civilians who were killed in Afghanistan last year - a sharp rise of 28% on 2009. This accounted for 75% of all deaths whereas pro-government forces totalled 440 civilian killings.

Take notice at the words I highlighted and underlined.
First, it doesn't say Taliban alone killed three times as many civilians. (it says "taliban AND other anti government elements)
Second, it chooses to use the word "blamed" because the study does not have proof that it was actually the taliban or other anti-government elements that actually did the killings.

[جوري]

You do know that your Taliban heroes have killed something like three times as many civilians as US, allied and Afghan Government forces put together don't you? With 'faith' and not 'weapon'? Get a clue... you may live in fairytale land but the Taliban and their victims certainly don't.

SOURCE

:haha: at the taliban and anti-govt. sources blamed and love your source for info. be that as it may it has to be better than taking the blame for engaging in a senseless war time and time again isn't it? Perhaps if American & British turds withdrew there wouldn't be so many people trying to blow themselves up.. try some root cause analysis..

[جوري]

The one thought that goes through my mind when I hear 9/11 conspiracy theories is this

You call it a 'conspiracy theory' when what you're seeing with your eyes isn't in concert with what you're being told?
confidant criminals get brazen, they make the law to fit their criminality. So far the U.S and cockroach state are in violation of many international and U.N laws, they don't need to cross their T's and dot their I's when they can carpet bomb!

[Trumble]

You need to read your source more carefully so as to avoid appearing lying.

Still in denial on that as well? It's from a UN report. Obviously it would be impossible to provide 100% accurate information, but generally I think the relatives of the dead would know who gunned them down, and the IEDs are something of a giveaway. You need to keep your advice/opinion to yourself and use the word 'lying' with rather more care.

I see no political grief or loss of prestige for the USA.

Then try actually looking. Are you really saying that nobody actually cared, minded or noticed that no WMDs were found in Iraq? Really? REALLY?

You are truly delusional. "outright lying" wouldn't cut it as an excuse to invade Afghanistan.

Depends what the lie is. And of course, without 9/11 the Americans would have had no reason (note, reason, not excuse) to go anywhere near Afghanistan, but that's another fact ignored by real 'truly delusional' and your 'false flag' fairy stories. Still, fairy stories were never big on detail were they?

[Ramadhan]

Still in denial on that as well? It's from a UN report. Obviously it would be impossible to provide 100% accurate information, but generally I think the relatives of the dead would know who gunned them down, and the IEDs are something of a giveaway. You need to keep your advice/opinion to yourself and use the word 'lying' with rather more care.

Ok, since you are confident of the study, then:

1. Please point us where in your source it says "Taliban heroes have killed something like three times as many civilians as US, allied and Afghan Government forces put together"
2. Please point us where in your source it says all anti-government forces = taliban
3. Please point us where in your source it says that they collected the numbers by interviewing relatives of all those civilians killed.
4. Please point us where in your source it says that only talibans can make IEDs.

In fact, here's the fact from your source: In this year alone (2008), for every occupation soldier killed, at least three Afghan civilians have died at the hands of occupation forces. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...ghanistan-nato

As for using the word "lying", I think I use it with care, don't you think? I have not accused anyone of lying in this thread (except for the US government).
I was thinking that you may have problem with reading comprehension because how was it possible that your statement is not supported at all by your own source, but naah, you cannot possibly have reading comprehensions because you're english and you seem to have decent education.

Then try actually looking. Are you really saying that nobody actually cared, minded or noticed that no WMDs were found in Iraq? Really? REALLY?

Sure people cared, but if you have not actually noticed, let me tell you this:
1. USA invaded Iraq anyway
2. Even when every excuse used to invade Iraq have been proven to be such lies, USA is still occupying Iraq anyway
3. There is no international political sanction against the US for illegally invading and occupying Iraq.

So, please tell me, what political grief and repercussions?

Depends what the lie is. And of course, without 9/11 the Americans would have had no reason (note, reason, not excuse) to go anywhere near Afghanistan, but that's another fact ignored by real 'truly delusional' and your 'false flag' fairy stories. Still, fairy stories were never big on detail were they?

You actually have ignored so many implausibilites regarding 9/11 and its follow up actions.
If 9/11 were the actual reason to invade Afghanistan, why is the USA still occupying Afghanistan?
And If you really believe that it was OBL that the marines captured and killed and thrown at sea, I have a bridge for you to sell. Since you are not big on detail, I assume you are fond of fairy stories.

[Trumble]

1. Please point us where in your source it says "Taliban heroes have killed something like three times as many civilians as US, allied and Afghan Government forces put together"

It doesn't say that. I said that. Spot the absence of quotation marks in my post and their appearance in yours. I am however capable of a little simple mathematics, although it appears you are not. The figure is actually rather generous as it assigns all the n/k's to Government/NATO.

2. Please point us where in your source it says all anti-government forces = taliban

Granted, it doesn't say that. Perhaps you could enlighten us as the identity of the people killing civilians who are neither Taliban nor Afghan Government/NATO?

3. Please point us where in your source it says that they collected the numbers by interviewing relatives of all those civilians killed.

I did assume they had some method of doing it other than drawing numbers from a Bingo machine, and simply asking peoplke is by far the most obvious. If you have any evidence to the contrary, please produce it.

4. Please point us where in your source it says that only talibans can make IEDs.

I'm sure those mysterious other anti-government forces can make them just as well. Don't tell me - they are all one bif 'false flag' operation in fantasy land? :hiding:

As for using the word "lying", I think I use it with care, don't you think?

No. It was about as subtle as a brick.

Sure people cared, but if you have not actually noticed, let me tell you this:
1. USA invaded Iraq anyway
2. Even when every excuse used to invade Iraq have been proven to be such lies, USA is still occupying Iraq anyway
3. There is no international political sanction against the US for illegally invading and occupying Iraq.

So, please tell me, what political grief and repercussions?

And, inevitably we end up with desperation.

1. Who was going to stop them? Incidently, as I recall most Iraqis were far from upset at the time.

2. US troops are there at the inivitation of the democratically elected Iraqi government. They don't like them there, of course, but their presence has prevented a significantly worse alternative. US troops are committed to leave by the end of the year.

3. Amazingly enough, nobody felt like sticking their head over the parapet to criticize getting rid of a mass murdering psychopath responsible for the deaths of millions of muslims. Not to mention probable economic suicide.

All that aside, the failure to actually find any WMDs knocked huge holes in America's reputation. And thousands of body bags always cause significant political grief - amazingly enough.

You actually have ignored so many implausibilites regarding 9/11 and its follow up actions.

I can only LOL, I'm afraid.

If 9/11 were the actual reason to invade Afghanistan, why is the USA still occupying Afghanistan?

They are not 'occupying' it. There is, however a necessity not to leave Afghanistan and the Afghan people in a worse mess than they are in already. There is no other reason to be there. If you believe there is some reason the Americans should be so desperate for that particular piece of low-value real estate - what is it?

And If you really believe that it was OBL that the marines captured and killed and thrown at sea, I have a bridge for you to sell.

Actually, I do. I'll skip the bridge, though, if you don't mind. Maybe you can find a place for it in fairyland?

[GuestFellow]

Salaam,

You call it a 'conspiracy theory' when what you're seeing with your eyes isn't in concert with what you're being told?
confidant criminals get brazen, they make the law to fit their criminality. So far the U.S and cockroach state are in violation of many international and U.N laws, they don't need to cross their T's and dot their I's when they can carpet bomb!

American citizens that still trust their government should read this:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&page=1

:haha: Perhaps if American & British turds withdrew there wouldn't be so many people trying to blow themselves up.. try some root cause analysis..

I agree.

[Who Am I?]

Salaam,

American citizens that still trust their government should read this:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&page=1

:sl:

I don't trust the government, but I read it anyway. Three words come to mind after reading that.

"Remember the Maine!"

[Ramadhan]

It doesn't say that. I said that. Spot the absence of quotation marks in my post and their appearance in yours. I am however capable of a little simple mathematics, although it appears you are not. The figure is actually rather generous as it assigns all the n/k's to Government/NATO.

I know you said that, but you gave the source to back up your statement.
And I cannot see anywhere in that source of yours that support your statement ""Taliban heroes have killed something like three times as many civilians as US, allied and Afghan Government forces put together"

So again, can you please show us where in your source that claim Talibans have killed three times as many civilians as US, allied and Afghan Government forces put together?
If you can't, then we can just dismiss it as a statement you made up on your own.

Granted, it doesn't say that. Perhaps you could enlighten us as the identity of the people killing civilians who are neither Taliban nor Afghan Government/NATO?

No, I don't know who they are and I never claimed to know, but you did, that's why I asked you, because in the UN study, it makes a distinction between taliban and anti-government forces.

You know, I don't believe in fairy stories, that's why details like this are very important to me.
I am also for the truth, and people who are for the truth just don't brush aside facts and evidence.

I did assume they had some method of doing it other than drawing numbers from a Bingo machine, and simply asking peoplke is by far the most obvious. If you have any evidence to the contrary, please produce it.

So "you did assume". You certainly makes a lot of assumptions in this little thread alone ;D
Ah, again, I never made the claim to know how they gathered the data, but they certainly does not state that they asked every relatives of those killed.

I am surprised that details like this escaped you.
Are you not for the truth?

I'm sure those mysterious other anti-government forces can make them just as well. Don't tell me - they are all one bif 'false flag' operation in fantasy land?

Did I ever say that?
Really Trumble, your analytical skills have gone downhill so much.
You presented the case where since the killings were done by IEDs then it must have been the talibans, and hence I asked you the questions.

Again, details... details...

No. It was about as subtle as a brick.

Are you accusing me of calling you lying? You owe an apology to me.

1. Who was going to stop them? Incidently, as I recall most Iraqis were far from upset at the time.
2. US troops are there at the inivitation of the democratically elected Iraqi government. They don't like them there, of course, but their presence has prevented a significantly worse alternative. US troops are committed to leave by the end of the year.
3. Amazingly enough, nobody felt like sticking their head over the parapet to criticize getting rid of a mass murdering psychopath responsible for the deaths of millions of muslims. Not to mention probable economic suicide.

First of all, those three points do not in any way negate my statement that "outright lying was sufficient as an excuse to invade Iraq since 9/11 has already served as foundation for that"

Second,
1. Incidently, there is no evidence that "most Iraqis are not upset that their country is invaded". Unless you have evidence that all of us do not know.
2. Are you serious? Who set up this "democratically elected Iraqi government"?
Also, they don't like them there but they cannot leave because the situation will get worse otherwise? LOL. Are you a 5 yo child or are you that naive? The US certainly left Somalia, didn't they?
I have heard that US troops are committed to leave by end of the year since 2003. And If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell to you in northern Alaska, wanna buy for a very discounted price?
3. "Nobody felt like sticking their head over the parapet to criticize getting rid of a mass murdering psychopath" ?
Not sure if you only started following world news and politics since 2003, but it was the US govt who supported Saddam Hussein in the late 70s and throughout all 80s to exact revenge on Iran and thus destabilizing the region. It was through US govt political support that made Saddam got away with murders of the kurds population and killed many more shiites. Guess again who supplied chemical weapons to Iraq?
Also, did the US ever stick their head over the parapet to criticize or getting rid of a mass murdering psychopath such as Stalin, Khmer Rouge, all those dictators in latin america (the opposite happened, in fact), all those dictators in africa and asia (again, the opposites happened, in fact).

All that aside, the failure to actually find any WMDs knocked huge holes in America's reputation. And thousands of body bags always cause significant political grief - amazingly enough.

You keep making this statement, which is hollow without evidence.
As far as the world can see, the US government is still operating as usual, still has hundreds of thousands of troops in Iraq and Afghanistan without any sanction whatsoever, and still killing thousands of civilians in those illegally occupied countries.
What is this political grief you keep saying?

They are not 'occupying' it. There is, however a necessity not to leave Afghanistan and the Afghan people in a worse mess than they are in already. There is no other reason to be there. If you believe there is some reason the Americans should be so desperate for that particular piece of low-value real estate - what is it?

Right.
The Dutch also never claimed that they "occupied" Indonesia for 3.5 centuries, and in fact asked the brits for help to send troops to Indonesia in 1945 to help "reclaimed" Indonesia after Japan was defeated because the Dutch saw a necessity not to leave Indonesia and the Indonesian people in a worse mess than they were in already.
FYI, The Dutch has never officially acknowledged Indonesia's 1945 proclamation of Independence, but who cares, we kicked them out of our country anyway ;D
And I hope the Afghans will soon also kick the hell out the occupying forces from their country.

By the way, unlike you, I don't assume things, I look at and evaluate evidence and facts.

Actually, I do.

So where is the proof that OBL was captured and killed?
You are an atheist who ask for God's material evidence, and I am so thoroughly disappointed with you when you eat up everything a group of people told you without any evidence to back up.

[Ramadhan]

American citizens that still trust their government should read this:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&page=1

Trumble is not an american citizen, but judging by what he has said in this thread (trusting what The US govt says), he has faith in them.

[Trumble]

I know you said that, but you gave the source to back up your statement.
And I cannot see anywhere in that source of yours that support your statement "Taliban heroes have killed something like three times as many civilians as US, allied and Afghan Government forces put together"

So again, can you please show us where in your source that claim Talibans have killed three times as many civilians as US, allied and Afghan Government forces put together?
If you can't, then we can just dismiss it as a statement you made up on your own.

So, again. DO THE MATH. The numbers are all in the pie charts. If by 'we' you mean posters in general, I really wouldn't speak on their behalf as I'm sure they can understand simple diagrams and numbers even if you cannot.

I am also for the truth, and people who are for the truth just don't brush aside facts and evidence.

So you don't have a clue who they might be, then? Space aliens maybe? The last hiding place of ex-WW2 Nazis? Put up or shut up.

Ah, again, I never made the claim to know how they gathered the data, but they certainly does not state that they asked every relatives of those killed. I am surprised that details like this escaped you. Are you not for the truth?

I am, and nothing 'escaped me' that I am aware of. AGAIN, if you have evidence the methodology and hence the results was/were unsound it really is up to you to produce it. Instead, as always, just waffle.

Did I ever say that?
Really Trumble, your analytical skills have gone downhill so much.
You presented the case where since the killings were done by IEDs then it must have been the talibans, and hence I asked you the questions.
Again, details... details...

Again, no answer and just waffle. I repeat, who else do you claim was building them? Who else has ANYBODY claimed was building them?

Are you accusing me of calling you lying? You owe an apology to me.

LOL... how do you actually function in the real-world when you get called on being a smarta$$? Stop wasting my time.

[Abz2000]

trumble - stop drinking fluoride - it damages your brain - and so does mercury - (which the government told you was safe - until it came out)
just avoid it - it messes with your head.

look at the facts regarding 9/11 and look at the answers the government gave - or didn't give.

also you made a comment about the us government only being in afghanistan due to 9/11,
and that there is no other real estate there.

firstly,
the us government was amassing troops in the region for months, and there was a plan on bush's desk regarding the invasion of Afghanistan on september 10 2001 - the day before 9/11
the us government invaded afghanistan with no independent investigation into the events on 9/11 and without determining who was responsible.
that is an illegal, and a criminal act.

here's what the quran tells us:

O ye who believe!
If a wicked person comes to you with any news,
ascertain the truth,
lest ye harm people unwittingly,
and afterwards become full of repentance for what ye have done.
Quran 49:6

when ahmadinejad requested an independent investigation into the events in his un speech - they walked out.
they then blamed iran for being involved in 9/11 and harbouring obl!

also obl was never wanted for the 9/11 attacks since they had no evidence, you would have seen that on the fbi website.




secondly you said that they were only there now because they couldn't leave it in the current state -
if a murdering raping thief goes into your house with his thugs and attacks your family illegally, would you like that people say he must stay in there to maintain peace so that there are no revenge attacks or "instability"???

thirdly - there are a lot of resources in afghanistan - the most famous being opium which is now openly grown, and protected by us and british soldiers

http://abz2000.com/criminalwarsofagression.aspx

also research british east india company and - opium wars

look at the facts without resorting to labelling and ridicule - as you can see we are all capable of it.

peace