Finally we chose conventional treatment for cancer

[ardianto]

:sl:

I make title like that because my first idea was making a post in thread "CANCER:Conventional Treatment vs Alternative (Natural) Treatment", and "we" are me and my wife who is breast cancer survivor.

Yes, finally we chose conventional treatment for my wife. She took alternative treatment for around 9 months, but it didn't works. Even later the cancer attacked her backbone.

She got surgery in december 2010, and 6 chemoteraphies to cure her breast cancer. Now she is still in chemoteraphy to cure her backbone.

I am sorry if I never told about it, I didn't know why I always doubt to tell. But now I think It's better I make this thread, and we can share something.

[Ramadhan]

:sl:

May Allah SWT give your wife complete syifa. ameen
Mudah2an kesabaran mas ardianto dan istri mendapat balasan yang berlimpah dari Allah.

[gladTidings]

Im sorry to hear about that. May Allah grant her health and patience...inshAllah she will recover on her current therapy. I hope Allah swt makes the journey easier for you and your family.

[Muhammad]

Wa Alaykum Assalaam,

May Allaah (swt) give your wife complete shifaa and leave no trace of illness, Aameen!

Don't forget spiritual treatment too - reciting Qur'an and du'as for treating sickness.

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[جوري]

May Allah swt give her complete shifa'a ameen ya rabb.. There was a thread here about conventional vs. alternative RX and I think the choice should be obvious. cancer RX shouldn't be delayed obviously chances are better for remission at an early stage than a late stage. I can no longer find that thread but I pity the fellow who gave folks such dishonest and untrained advise seeing that some people opt for such quackery based on quack advise. There is a science to this and years of dedication and study. I am sorry but people who aren't professionals in the field shouldn't be dispensing with advise and I pray to God that people check with the professionals before opting for such shady routes..

May Allah swt grant you sabr and your wife a speedy recovery.. pls. akhi keep us updated on her condition..

:w:

[Muslim Woman]

:wa:

may Allah grants what is best for her hereafter ; may Allah gives u 2 patience .

bro , pl. remember :

Allah burdens not a person beyond his scope 2:286

[Insaanah]

:sl:

I ask Allah, Lord of the Magnificent Throne, to cure your wife, ameen.

Keep reading this du3a for your wife, but with a ki at the end instead of ka, seven times each time you read it.

I'm sorry to hear the cancer has spread, and pray that the chemotherapy will cure and remove all traces of it.

Cancer is an aggressive disease, and as such demands equally aggressive measures to combat it.

Until such time as alternative treatments are shown in placebo controlled randomised double blind trials to be significantly effective, holistic support, if used, should be used alongside conventional treatment, but not on it's own. This means that the conventional treatment will start working right away, helping to control the cancer (and possibly prevent it's spread) while the holistic may help the body to heal, to be healthier, to give the body a better defence, and lead to a healthier future.

Physical (diet, lifestyle) and emotional support can help general well-being. There are some reputable organisations in the UK (you will need to check for Indonesia though) who's mission is to offer an approach to cancer which involves not only medical treatment but also care for the body, mind, emotions and spirit. But they do not offer this to the exclusion of conventional treatment, but alongside, as they themselves recognise that there are no convincing trials as yet that warrant it. The only exception being those who are told that conventional treatment cannot do anything for them, in which case they make it clear that all they are doing is good for the body, but won't stop the disease, or in people who refuse conventional treatment. But you do have to make sure that they work alongside your oncologist, so that nothing that they advise will interfere adversely with the chemotherapy or other treatment that he/she is administering, in any way.

I will keep your wife in my du3as, inshaa'Allah.

:sl:

[Ramadhan]

:sl:

This is what my aunt does after her breasts taken out because of cancer 10 years ago:
- she doesn't eat any processed food (that means no canned food, no instant noodles - yes that means no indomie or mie sedaaaap :)
- she doesn't eat food prepared with preservatives, flavor enhancers (msg), and any other chemicals
- she very rarely eat meat
- she also very rarely eat fried food and she avoid eating street food or restaurant food for that matter and very careful when buying veggies (many farmers in Indonesia are still using banned pesticides/insecticides)
- she has routine exercise

She is now 55 yo and is very healthy for woman at her age and the cancer cells have not gone back alhamdulillah.

It is clear that the number of cancer cases increasing so rapipdly in the past few decades is triggered by environment (pollution) and processed food as well as modern lifestyles, and as sis. Insanaah has mentioned in her post, the holistic approach is needed to make our body healthy during and after the conventional treatment is administered.

May Allah SWT grant your wife complete and immediate syifa. ameen3x ya robbi al ameen.

[جوري]

Sis, if only you were informed about these alternative treatments, then you would not say that. Instead of pitying that person, perhaps you should meet some professional doctors who are successfully treating cancer via alternative treatments, and study those treatments and see the results for yourselves, before you decide whether it is quackery.

You have been taught to believe and treat with drugs – but, drugs are not a cure doctor - they are a symptom suppressor. To cure, one needs to treat the body as a whole entity and not as individual compartments. This means, if one limb/organ (compartment) gets cancer, the whole body needs treating, not just that one limb.

The thread in Q was merely a discussion; it was not an advice.

.

You don't know how drugs work to comment on whether or not they're symptom suppressor or otherwise. Also a doctor is someone who goes through formal schooling and training and is licensed to practice medicine not a quack who works with herbs!

This is precisely what I am talking about. Pls. fear Allah that someone might be taking your very ill advise with regards to treatment and instead of tackling what could be a low score TNM that can be remedied or at least put into remission they end up with a stage four with multiple nodal involvement in multiple organ system metastasis!

[Who Am I?]

:sl:

My mother is also a breast cancer survivor. A few months ago, she was diagnosed with Stage 1 breast cancer and had to undergo surgery and subsequent treatment. Everything went smoothly and she's now taking medication for the next 5 years to ensure that the tumor cells do not regenerate.

When she called me to tell me, I didn't know what to do. It hit me for the first time in my life that my parents won't be around forever, and it wasn't easy to deal with. I'm not ready to be on my own just yet. I was also going through some things in my own life at the time with my soul-searching and medical issues of my own, and I was emotionally overloaded.

I had to take a couple of steps back and clear my head for a few days before I returned to my regular life.

[جوري]

Sister, there are various types of medicine out there. There is herbal medicine, there is homeopathic medicine, there is Chinese medicine, there is naturopathic medicine etc. Each person who qualifies in them is a doctor in their own field. Just because they are not doctors who treat with drugs, does not mean they are all quacks. I’m sorry, but that is a very unfair and narrow minded way of looking at things.

None which has proven in head to head studies to offer remote benefits. It has a placebo effect on people, no more no less!
I have already listed in the other thread a number of so-called 'natural' remedies which have proven to cause everything from seratonin syndrome, to cancer to death.. not to mention a host of unsafe interactions with prescribed medications that go unreported when sold by quacks since there are no clinical trials or double blind tests to showcase their efficacy!

These people have also been through formal schooling and training and are licensed to practice medicine. Infact, some if not many of these dedicated people are trained medical doctors who have been to the conventional medical schools. The only difference is, they went further in their studies and qualified in homeopathy and nutrition and many other alternative treatments also. Dr. Brian Clement, Im not sure if you have heard of him is one of these people may God bless him. He has a health retreat in florida called Hippocrates, and him and his team have been working with cancer patients for years, and they have been successful in their alternative therapies with the help of Allaah.

We then call them nutritionists and dietitians they work along side doctors like spiritual chaplains that they bring to ensure spiritual, nutritional as well the medical well being of the patient!

[

Theseare qualified people ukhtee, who have come to the realisation that drugs are not the answer to everything, and that true healing comes by removing the harm first, and understanding the body. You may think its all quack, but their new and advanced approach to cancer makes

This is an emotive piece that has no relevance!

.

much more sense than what the conventional schools teaches. It is also in accordance with the Medicine of the Prophet :arabic5: which teaches the same principles of health. Allaah has cured many terminally ill cancer patients at their hands, people who were told by conventional medical docs that they had only months to live. I spoke to one myself, a living example

And when I am sick, then He restores me to health” (Quran 26:80) indeed Allah swt provides the cure, Allah swt has also blessed us with science .. why reach for quackery when we have experimentation why go for empiricism over an actual science. I am tired of repeating myself because you just want to assert your point. Consider that saving a human life is more important than you asserting yourself simply because you feel strongly about something that you don't know much about. There is a reason why Medicine is 8 years of theoretical science followed by a residency where one puts both research and science to practice. Nothing else offers that. Word of mouth and 'long time practice' doesn't counteract the lack of common sense!

People have a right to know that there are other options out there. They shouldn’t be forced into chemotherapy as their only option, to suit the interests of a money making drug industry.
My intentions are not to argue with you ukhtee. This is not about defending what you have been taught or what I have been taught, it’s about being open minded enough to look for better approaches to cancer as well as other diseases. Perhaps if you will consider them, you will find that there is truth in them.

That’s all I have to say. May Allaah be with you.

Neither Medicine nor doctors 'FORCE' treatment on anyone. It gives them an educated reason to choose this or that and forgo all together if they so choose it respects their autonomy further 'chemo' isn't the only option if you actually studied Medicine and pharmacology you'd have come to know that!

We've a number of sisters on board who are pharmacists and can go into details as to options. I am not down on nutrition or cupping as an adjunct but it is certainly not treatment by itself!

:w:

[ardianto]

:sl:

Thank you very much bro Ramadhan, sis Pearl, bro Muhammad, sis Vale Lily, sis Muslim Woman, (bro? sis?) Member X, sis Insaanah, bro King of Nines. Jazak Allah Khayran.

@Bro Muhammad
Alhamdulillah, my wife got speed recovery. Doctors said It's miracle, but I beleive it's caused by dua from everyone who love my wife, including my mommy who perform tahajud almost every night before she passed away last year.

@sis Insaanah
InshaAllah, I will always read that dua.

@Bro Ramadhan
Yes, my wife now not allowed to eat foods that contain preservatives, and also not allowed to eat broiler chicken because it injected by hormone.

@bro King of Nines
May Allah give speed recovery to your mother. In this situation she needs love and careness from you and people around her.

[ardianto]

I can't say alternative treatment doesn't works for cancer. It can be works as long as it provided by people who know about medic. But in reality there are many alternative treatment that provided by people without medical knowledge, even there are many alternative medical treatment that actually irrational.

I have learned some lessons from trial that happened to my family. One of these is, breast cancer is scary disease for women because maybe they will lose one or even all of their breasts. This is one reason why some (or maybe many) women prefer to choose alternative treatment. Lost breast would becomes a nightmare, especially for unmarried girls. But for married women maybe not so hard because usually their husbands can accept it. My wife had lost her left breast, but it didn't give any negative effect for my love to her, even now I love her more than before she got this disease. My wife often talked with other patients who are married women and had lost their breasts too, and she found their husbands still love them.

And like sister Insaanah said, cancer is aggressive disease that attack organs very fast. If the patients received treatment too late, it will attack other organs. My wife backbone had been attacked. But according to my wife, other patients were attacked in their other organs such as skin or lung. And I have heard many breast cancer cases which ended with death.

Also I heard many people say that chemotherapy is same like injecting the patient with poison, but I think it's not really true. Chemotherapy is same like other medicine, it use drug that injected to the patient body. It's normal if the patient lost her hair. My wife lost her hair too, but not so long her her hair start to grow again.



@ Member X
Like I said, I can't say alternative treatment doesn't work. But I hope you understand, I just want to save my wife.

The first place that we have visited was a clinic that provide Ibn Sina medical treatment, because my wife didn't want to take conventional treatment. But we were so shocked when we knew it cost, few times bigger than conventional treatment. Actually I don't care about cost, but in that time I really didn't have cash money in that amount.

Then we took Chinese alternative treatment, but after we found it didn't works we moved to an avasinologist doctor, he is a religious Muslim. Although this doctor said we came too late he tried to give my wife avasin therapy that combined with herbal medicine. However, after the cancer started to attack my wife backbone, this doctor recommend us to go to the hospital soon.

[جوري]

:sl:

I’m aware that there are other options within the conventional field (I mentioned some before too), but, you’ve misunderstood me. What was meant was, patients need to be given a well informed choice of options between alternative and conventional, because both have their success rate - both work.

wa3lykoum asalaam wr wb

Patients are given all the available research and peer reviewed literature and clinical trials out to make an informed decision, if they desire 'alternate' treatment, then they're most welcome to receive it. Unfortunately there's not enough research done on 'alternate' treatment and the only thing that prompts it in the medical community is when disastrous outcomes ensue to taking an 'herb' along side an FDA approved drug!
The alternative folks need to get organized and run clinical trials, double blind studies etc. but then that would cost them a fortune to submit trials, to experiment, to write reviews to have them peer reviewed they might as well join the scientific community?

Please understand that the knowledge we are taught at school is not the only knowledge. Drugs, radiation etc are not the only thing you can treat someone by. Allah has put a cure in many other things too. If we were to have that one-sided outlook and rigidly stick to an academic syllabus, not only would we be depriving ourselves but we would also be depriving our patients.

Allah swt is the cure in all cases, and he has given us the means and the scientific ways to ensure that we provide the best and the latest. The only thing we'd 'deprive' ourselves of, are quacks and time wasted that can be better utilized putting potentially disastrous consequences into remission early on. I am actually very open minded not rigid at all. It is a matter of not wasting time on nonsense, since everything you suggest can be broken down to its basic components. The human body has a physiology and biochemistry and genetics that needs to be addressed in dosages, in mechanism of action, organ function, volume of distribution, clearance, pharmokinetics etc. that can't be escaped by the florid words and not much else of said alternative RX. Further I have already stated I am not down on nutrition or cupping etc as an adjunct not as a 'cure'.

The Prophet :arabic5: has not only left us with spiritual guidance but he has also left us with medical guidance. In the Medicine of the Prophet

I have never argued against spiritual guidance and the scientific community recognizes its well being as well to the healing of the patient!

:arabic5: there are some basic principles for health ( e.g. a - First do no harm; b - Using the reverse method as treatment etc). The Prophet :arabic5: himself prescribed certain foods for various ailments. Yet today, if some doctors start treating with herbs and foods, they are accused of being called quacks.

The do no harm, and respect for autonomy, and concern for nutrition is all recognized in the medical community, that's where the medicine of the prophet would be modern times, since we're urged to seek education and perfect it. You can't treat a grade IV glioblastoma multiforme with Turmeric powder anymore than you can treat Rabies with 21 shots anymore.. It advances and self corrects. The diseases themselves change, adapt etc. an antibiotic that worked for a staph infection 10 yrs ago has no relevance today!

Whatever we learn in school (whether it be psychology, medicine, sociology etc) we need to refer back to these two sources; the Qur’aan and the Sunnah, for they are our base and authentic guidance in every matter.

No one is arguing against the Quran and Sunnah, but Sunnah also tells us that to every ailment there's a cure, and science seeks those by modern means and organization and clinical trials and research. Why do you want to turn Islam into this Archaic thing when it is not? When it is relevant for every time!
You're not going to find a single doctor that will tell you don't take black seed or honey, but black seed and honey need to be married with aggressive treatment in the case of aggressive diseases. You need to understand pathophysiology, lag and log times, peaks and troughs. You can't go at a disease that multiples at a rate of a million an hour with an herb that moves (if at all) at 3 miles an hour!

:w:

[جوري]

:salamext:


completely agreed


Again, completely agreed.

Sister, if you think these trained medical doctors are treating a serious illness like cancer with a herb or two, or so called natural products bought of the counter, then you have been seriously misinformed and know very little about their treatments. Like I stated before, perhaps you should look into it before you accuse them of being quacks. Why don’t you purchase the books recommended on the other cancer thread and read them, I promise you it won’t be a waste of time. Sincerely speaking, learning more about other medicines and combining them with your prior knowledge will only improve your skills as a doctor and give you a more in-depth understanding.

May Allaah enlighten you, and give you optimum success with your patients.

OK insha'Allah I'll look into it when I have the time

:w:

[Riana17]

Asalam Alaikkum

Brother Ardianto, I am so sorry I didnt read your previous post about this.
Insha Allah ya Rabb she will be recovered 100.1% and how lucky she is to have a husband like you, Subhanallah, you two are one of a kind. May Allah keep you both safe and strong and grant you sabr. Amen

[ardianto]

Asalam Alaikkum

Brother Ardianto, I am so sorry I didnt read your previous post about this.
Insha Allah ya Rabb she will be recovered 100.1% and how lucky she is to have a husband like you, Subhanallah, you two are one of a kind. May Allah keep you both safe and strong and grant you sabr. Amen

Assalamualaikum.

Amen. Thank you very much for your du'a, sister.

[SFatima]

May Allah swt give speedy recovery to all those who are ill, ameen.

Apart from that, I am a huge fan of herbs, they do what nothing else can. Although, I agree that there needs to be done a lot of research on separating and deriving the right amounts of essences/chemicals from the cures that have been mentioned in the Sunnah, I recently heard a scientific group had done a test on the anti-cancer capabilities of the black cumin seeds and the results were awesome, i'll look for that link once again and share it.

I really think we muslims need to focus to derive cures from the recommendations of Quran and Sunnah, and also running them through the scientific methods/tests/trials and etc to affirm their action. These herbs have no side effects, and they work in a way which not only treats a disease, they make you immune from having one. Anyhow, radiations, preservatives, polluted air for breathing(smoking), nuclear radiation and etc are some of the biggest reasons for developing cancers.. As they say its an urban disease highly concentrated in developed countries... Only Allah swt knows what really causes it , may Allah swt save us all from the trials ameen.

By the way, I hate anti-biotics, and I have really started to stay away from them alhamdulilah and usually try to cure the flu/sore throats/all such things by herbal teas, honey and olive oil, olive oil is like magic for allergies subhanAllah, just rub in under your nose a bit and your nose is like so fiiiine in a while :statisfie

But definitely, for bigger serious diseases which involve the vital organs, unless there is a sure cure, one shouldn't risk the herbal methods which have not been tried and tested for their scientific worth. Because even in all these herbal or healing done through domestic fruits/vegetables, there are specific amounts, times and ways to be taken as cure, otherwise it can not only aggravate the condition but also not work as a cure at all. I have a book series of herbal cures and I love it :D

hey lily vale, which doctor are you! So Nice to know, now we can get our consultations here for free ;)

[~ Sabr ~]

Brother Ardianto, how is your wife now?

[Snowflake]

Alhamdulillah, my wife got speed recovery. Doctors said It's miracle, but I beleive it's caused by dua from everyone who love my wife, including my mommy who perform tahajud almost every night before she passed away last year.

Al hamdulillah, our sister has recovered form her illness. May Allah preserve her health and grant her a long pious life. Ameen. Saddened to hear about your mother brother Ardianto. May Allah make the barzakh a place of peace and serenity for her and place her in the highest realms of Paradise in the hereafter. Ameen

[ardianto]

Brother Ardianto, how is your wife now?

I cannot say she's fine. She often feel pain in her bones, need many rest on bed, and sometime she need cane for walk.

But, Alhamdulillah, she still has a hope.

[~ Sabr ~]

May Allaah give her the best in this world and the Aakhirah, Ameen.

[Scimitar]

Thumm Ameen.

Bro Ardianto, this is a very BIG test for you and your wife, Subhaan-Allah. The patience you and your wife both have thru this time of trial is admirable. The trial of health is the most difficult to bare. I am in open admiration of you and your wifes pereverance, Alhamdulillah. I pray that Allah provide your wife with shifaa from the cancer and nurse her back to full health again, AMEEN.

Scimi

[Muhaba]

May Allah make her well, brother ardianto. I was saddened to read about your wife having cancer but am glad that she survived it. alhamdullilah!

i agree that herbal medicine may not be the best way to treat cancer unless it has been verified that it is effective. cancer is a horrible disease that if treated too late will be uncontrollable, so it needs the right treatment from the start. if anyone suspects cancer, the right way is to go to the doctor immediately for a check up and tests. and then get the prescribed treatment if it turns out that one has cancer.

but the most important thing to do is to make dua and do salat-hajah as it is only Allah who gives cure and Allah can cure the uncurable. Read Surah Al-Fatiha and the last two surahs of the Quran a lot and also do Salat-i-hajah at once everyday. if the pateint him/herself can't, then another person should do it and pray to Allah to give him/her cure. i have heard of people being cured of other diseases with these.

these should be started as soon as one suspects cancer.

may Allah protect us all from cancer and cure whoever has it. ameen

[ardianto]

i agree that herbal medicine may not be the best way to treat cancer unless it has been verified that it is effective

My wife often drink soursop leaves tea. This is suggested even by the doctors.

However, soursop leaves tea is not strong enough to cure cancer, just help the main medicine to works.

[ardianto]

"There are many people who worse (in health condition) than me". This is what my wife always said when she back from regularly chemotherapy in hospital where she meet other patients, who many of them have worse health condition. And it always raise her hope and makes her feel thankful.


Jazak Allah khair for your advice and du'a, my brothers and my sisters.

[~ Sabr ~]

^ What is that tea made of brother please? As I work in a cancer hospital and it is good for recommending to patients InshaaAllaah

[ardianto]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soursop

Soursop is tropical fruit, that maybe could not be found in four seasons areas.

How to make soursop leaves tea?. Just boil soursop leaves in water, then drink the water, without thec leaves . Its taste is not so different than tea.

Attachment 4930

[~ Sabr ~]

Jazaak Allaah Khayr

[~Zaria~]

Assalamu-alaikum,

Bro Ardianto:
May Allah (subhanawataála) make this trial easy on you and your wife.
And may it be a means of drawing ever nearer to our Rabb and elevating your ranks in the Aakhirah.
Ameen.

There is wisdom behind everything that Allah plans for us Akhee.
Perhaps, by informing others of the lessons that you and your wife have learnt......you may be the means of changing the course of someones elses life, by the will of Allah.....


With regards to alternative therapies:
Im completely with sister منوة الخيال on this one.....

Unfortunately, it becomes a 'them' (conventional medicine practioners) vs 'us' (naturalists) debate.....which it need not be.

At the end of the day, both schools of practioners are seeking whats best for the patient, through the qoedrat of Allah (subhanawataála).

The fact is that science/ medicine is an imprecise field.
It is based on trial and error.....and while many available treatments may not afford cure (esp if instituted late in the course of disease), the best outcomes for the patient are then sought.
In the case of cancer - this would be disease-free years, trying to balance the benefits of therapy to their side-effects.

If a proponent of natural therapy - whatever it may be (accupunture, herbs, reflexology, light-therapy, reiki, etc etc) can provide EVIDENCE (in the form of a randomised, placebo vs therapy trial) that supports their claims, then the entire world would surely sit up and pay heed.

Even the most 'indoctrinated' western-schooled doctor will be prepared to give it a chance.

Because we all sincerely, only want whats best for the person who is afflicted with a life-threatening condition.

Unfortunately, I am yet to see anyone step up to this type of challenge......

So, until such evidence becomes evident, I suggest putting your faith in what is known, or what has been revealed to the prophet (sallalahu alaihi wasalam).
If need be, seek alternative care in conjunction to this (not in isolation).
And seek guidance from Allah.

When it comes to matters of ones health/ life ---- no chancers please.


:wa:

[Snowflake]

Wake up people. Pharmaceuticals companies don't want to 'find' natural cures for cancer or anything else. They know they exist. But the FDA will never carry out trials to back them scientifically. People are meant to be getting cancer and other diseases. And then treated with dangerous substances which themselves are life threatening. Anything that makes bucks is given the go-ahead and dangerous drugs are only taken off the market when the pharmaceuticals companies get sued NOT because people died taking their drugs. In one report, if I remember correctly, 80% of FDA approved substances are carcinogens. Does that look like they care?

FDA approves of dangerous drugs:

1. One example cited in the study was the FDA-approved diabetes drug Avandia, which in 2007 was found to increase heart attacks and cardiovascular deaths—even though the drug’s maker, GlaxoSmithKline, had known about the risk before the drug was approved.

2.
In 2003, a clinical trial of Multaq, a drug that treated cardiac arrhythmias, was stopped because more patients who were getting the drug were dying than those who received a placebo—though the study results weren’t published until five years later. Even so, the drug was approved by the FDA in 2009 as a treatment for atrial fibrillation in certain patients—just not as a means to reduce deaths!

3.

The biggest threat to America today is not terrorists or global warming, but the mass genocide of Americans who die every year at the hands of the corrupt U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA). In a recent report, investigative reporter Jon Rappoport uncovers the dirty truth that FDA-approved drugs kill at least 100,000 people every single year --

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/035936_FD...#ixzz1y5pRMm7Y


4. The statistics and the facts are staggering: More than 40 people a day across the country die from prescription pain medication overdoses; more and more doctors are getting huge payouts from pharmaceutical companies to promote these drugs; and in the past 10 years, U.S. spending on prescription drugs rose 475 percent.

5.
It was only after Actos was on the market for several years that patients learned that the drug is linked to bladder cancer, congestive heart failure and a host of other deadly conditions. And even with that news, what has the FDA done to ensure Actos patient are safe?

While countries that include France, Germany and Canada have taken steps to restrict or remove Actos from the market, the FDA has taken a wait-and-see approach. The only thing the FDA has done is add a black-box warning to the drug for its link to congestive heart failure and a blurb on the drug’s label for its link to bladder cancer.


I'm just giving an example.The actual list of FDA criminality is never ending but what's the point of posting it. People are too comfortable in their own world to open the doors to the cold hard truths - that the biggest disease in the world today is the misuse of science.

[جوري]

FDA-approved drugs kill at least 100,000 people every single year --

That's because people misuse or mix.. and that applies to anything. If a person is a drinker and takes acetominophen and ends up in liver failure whose fault is that? The bottle comes with a label. Natural cures don't come with such a label. The most they can put is this statement is not verified by the FDA.. i.e no clinical trial on animals or humans went to validate the claims.
I'd like to ask what you mean by 'Natural cures' many medications used in Medicine are natural. protamine sulfate comes from fish testicles, Premarin comes from pregnant mare urine, digoxin comes from foxglove plant (it can actually be deadly) though it is 'Natural' .. before they were cutting down on the rainforest. Scientists would go scouting for plants and break down their chemical compounds to see in what diseases they can help, by entering these structures into computers and flow cytometry etc. Now that many compounds have to to be synthesized. Nothing is without harmful side effects and everything has to come with full disclosure .. something that the 'Naturalists' don't disclose. We've had three times as many patients die of those so-called 'natural remedies' than FDA approved and do you know why? because at least with the drugs that are pushed out we have antidotes. When people take crap we don't know what it is, takes longer for toxicology reports breaking down those compounds so we can find a cure if one exists. more often than not fulminant liver or kidney failure has occurred. We're forced now to take courses to some of these so called natural remedies and recognize their side effects right away to be able to save lives, sometimes we start empirical treatments like a shot gun approach and it doesn't work.

Yes, there's much lobbying and many shady things that go on in the medical/pharmaceutical fields but there are independent regulating bodies and phase IV trials to recall... No such luck with the so called natural remedies.
Please remember that all compounds that enter the body have to be processed in the same way by the body using the same enzymes and everything absolutely every last thing even licorice or grapefruit juice can have some serious repercussions.

Should we all abandon tried and true treatments in favor of things that are largely a mystery simply because we dislike how some things are conducted? I think personally that's unfair especially to the patients whose autonomy is maintained in spite of what articles like the above say.. It is simply a battle at your expense and your life.. They have purpose and those have a purpose too.. and usually the bottom line is a dollar not a patient's life.. So at least make the dollar buy something worth your while..

:w:

[Snowflake]

because at least with the drugs that are pushed out we have antidotes.

If that's true why are so many already dead after taking drugs, and we're not even talking misuse here. It's a well known fact. Prescription drugs are killing more people than illegal drugs. And it's not naturalists getting sued either.

[جوري]

If that's true why are so many already dead after taking drugs, and we're not even talking misuse here. It's a well known fact. Prescription drugs are killing more people than illegal drugs. And it's not naturalists getting sued either.

It isn't a well known fact no.
Also there are many reasons why people die after taking drugs and I have listed some reasons above-- the immune system itself may react badly in some cases and that is no different for prescription vs. the so-called natural stuff as we have two types of immunity cell mediated and humoral and there's no escaping it by mere use of the word natural. You're welcome to share with me their autopsy and toxicology reports as such cases almost always end up a subject of investigation and I'll be more than happy to look at them and tell you what occurred in each individual case.

[Snowflake]

منوة الخيال;

1525436]
It isn't a well known fact no.

depends what circles you're in :lol:

Also there are many reasons why people die after taking drugs and I have listed some reasons above-- the immune system itself may react badly in some cases and that is no different for prescription vs. the so-called natural stuff as we have two types of immunity cell mediated and humoral and there's no escaping it by mere use of the word natural. You're welcome to share with me their autopsy and toxicology reports as such cases almost always end up a subject of investigation and I'll be more than happy to look at them and tell you what occurred in each individual case.

That's true natural remedies can be harmful but they've been used for thousands of years and when prescribed by a trained physician hardly ever result in death. The most that happens is that they won't suit a person's constitution and may harm them lightly, albeit temporarily. On the other hands drugs prescribed by trained doctors do cause harm and can be fatal. Drug induced liver disease is one of the major reasons given for withdrawal of a drug. I can't provide you with autopsy reports but I can tell you that the fourth major cause of death in the US is from drugs (the AMA Journal), not alternative medicines. Those dangerous herbs which the FDA want to protect the public and their pocket from cause maybe 50 deaths compared to 106,000 deaths from drugs prescribed by trained physicians. Not forgetting the 2,000,000 serious drug reactions, again from prescribed drugs.


I'm not saying that conventional med is not useful. It's done wonders in emergencies. But overall its a flawed system that does nothing to prevent disease and causes a great deal of harm. I also agree that alternative remedies do not work as fast as drugs, and neither is that necessary unless you're having a heart attack. I think we must be able to agree that if instead of modern meds, holistic health care is implemented into our lifestyles from the start, a lot of diseases could be prevented to begin with. And in the case that disease does take hold then it can prevent it from worsening without harm, like the harm caused by the side effects from drugs. So although I appreciate some aspects of modern medicine, I can't ignore it's dangers and the fact that since it came into place, disease has only risen and made life hell (from side-effects) for people who could've otherwise been safely treated with alternative medicine. So I come to the point where I have to say that we may have to agree to disagree :)

[جوري]

منوة الخيال;

depends what circles you're in :lol:

Well it isn't about circles but facts.. anyone can put out any information out there, it has no validity.

That's true natural remedies can be harmful but they've been used for thousands of years and when prescribed by a trained physician hardly ever result in death.

They may not cause death but they're not a cure either.

The most that happens is that they won't suit a person's constitution and may harm them lightly, albeit temporarily.

I guarantee that anything can cause harm to anyone in a number of ways. It is just a matter of benefit vs. risk and the percentage harmed number needed to treat etc.

On the other hands drugs prescribed by trained doctors do cause harm and can be fatal. Drug induced liver disease is one of the major reasons given for withdrawal of a drug. I can't provide you with autopsy reports but I can tell you that the fourth major cause of death in the US is from drugs (the AMA Journal), not alternative medicines. Those dangerous herbs which the FDA want to protect the public and their pocket from cause maybe 50 deaths compared to 106,000 deaths from drugs prescribed by trained physicians. Not forgetting the 2,000,000 serious drug reactions, again from prescribed drugs.

As stated everything ingested causes harm. The only reason you see the results of one and not the other is that on autopsy reports we don't test for 'natural' compounds or even 'toxic' ones unless there's a high suspicion. In other words you've to go through someone's cabinets and see what sort of crap they've been taking and test for that specific compound.

I'm not saying that conventional med is not useful. It's done wonders in emergencies. But overall its a flawed system that does nothing to prevent disease and causes a great deal of harm. I also agree that alternative remedies do not work as fast as drugs, and neither is that necessary unless you're having a heart attack.

Preventative medicine is usually in immunology & vaccinations. Doctors can't be faulted otherwise for life style choices that people make. People bring on most of the common maladies i.e diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol etc. with smoking, obesity & sedentary lifestyle. In fact people are living much longer than they ever have because of the advanced of medical science. You should compare the life expectancy now as opposed to 200 years ago, and that of places where there's advancement in medicine over those that have no access and that should take care of what is tried and true and what isn't!

I think we must be able to agree that if instead of modern meds, holistic health care is implemented into our lifestyles from the start, a lot of diseases could be prevented to begin with. And in the case that disease does take hold then it can prevent it from worsening without harm, like the harm caused by the side effects from drugs. So although I appreciate some aspects of modern medicine, I can't ignore it's dangers and the fact that since it came into place, disease has only risen and made life hell (from side-effects) for people who could've otherwise been safely treated with alternative medicine. So I come to the point where I have to say that we may have to agree to disagree :)

I'd hate and because I've taken an oath which I uphold and honor even if it means nothing to anyone else it means something to me to offer all I know with complete honesty before God to the best of my knowledge. I'd hate for someone to be suffering a very serious ailment to forgo that which has undergone extensive testing for some so-called natural treatment. There's always room for nutrition and spirituality but there's no room to fool around with drugs that seem to some to hold some magic property as if they don't get processed in the body subject to the laws of physiology, pharmacokinetics and Pharmacodynamics shut down all logic and reason simply because something else bears the label of 'Natural'.. so it isn't about disagreement it is about using what we learn to educate people on the facts.

:w:

[Snowflake]

Just want to clarify that I don't question your or any doctors honoring of their oaths. I have the utmost respect for most doctors and every other health care professional for the care they give us. Like I said, I appreciate some aspects of modern med and drugs have their use in emergencies. What I hate is how even in non urgent cases harmful drugs are too readily prescribed without seeking cheaper and safer alternative solutions that holistic med can offer and keeping toxic drugs as a last resort. Well I can dream on because it's a business and a very profitable one for the people behind the scenes. So it doesn't matter how good a doctor or his/her intentions are, the fact is that they still prescribed drugs even when unnecessary because that is what big pharma has taught them to do.

[ardianto]

So it doesn't matter how good a doctor or his/her intentions are, the fact is that they still prescribed drugs even when unnecessary because that is what big pharma has taught them to do.

My sister in-law and her family were in Japan when their son got influenza. They went to the doctor, but that Japanese doctor just adviced bed rest and didn't give a drug. He said "Do not too easy to use drug".

[Snowflake]

My sister in-law and her family were in Japan when their son got influenza. They went to the doctor, but that Japanese doctor just adviced bed rest and didn't give a drug. He said "Do not too easy to use drug".

My statement was a general one akhi. Not for any individual doctor per se. In fact doctors in the Eastare more accepting of alternative meds than their western counterparts.