Frustrations in getting married

[Muhammad Aseem]

Assalam o alaikum all,

I've a question for all you single people out there who have been actively looking tget married

What's your biggest frustration / fear in getting married , the reason why you haven't gotten married so far?

I ask cuz I've been happily married for a few years and I love this - I just wonder why my friends (and some of my wife's friends) aren't able to get married.

[Salahudeen]

They want me to kick my mum who raised me all her life, and move out into our own place. while my mum rotts away in a empty house :hmm: There's also the fact I don't have a lucrative job and a fancy car :hmm: not saying all women are like this but this has been my experience so far. Oh yeah I don't make enough to go on holiday every year also ;D

I've learnt some women go for wealth and social status when it comes to a marriage partner so I decided to give up until I have money like Bill Gates.:exhausted Oh I forgot to mention my beard reminds them of a "caveman" and they want me to shave it off for them, this is another reason.

[Amat Allah]

Wa Alikum Assalaam Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakaatuh

why not being married till this moment?

cause the time of the one whom Allah had written for me didn`t come yet or maybe there is none for me ...Allah knows...and I am happy no matter what Alhamdulilah , cause I believe that whatever Allah had written for me is the best and it will be the best forever...All Praise, Thanks and Glory be to Allah ...

May Allah grant all the Muslims in this world his/her perfect match and if not in this world then in Al Firdaws which I am beging Allah to have mercy on us and make us enter it without being reckoning...Ameeeeeeeeen

[Asiyah3]

My older brothers aren't married, because they don't have a degree yet. They are unable to support a wife.

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[ardianto]

My older brothers aren't married, because they don't have a degree yet. They are unable to support a wife.

If your brothers can visit my home I will introduce them to my friend, Mr "S", a religious Muslim brother who was born in poor family, doesn't have degree, but now has becomes a rich businessman. He has married, of course.

Don't worry, if we have a good intention to get married, Allah will open the way for us.

[noorseeker]

Debts and lack of money for me

I want a small wedding, just need to find someone with same view.

Big 30 coming up aswell

[Mr.President]

Lack of money
I don't own a place
I dont wanna get into family politics !

[GuestFellow]

Salaam,

My older brothers aren't married, because they don't have a degree yet. They are unable to support a wife.

You don't need a degree to support a wife. What you need is a job.

I dont wanna get into family politics !

Same here.

I want a small wedding, just need to find someone with same view.

I hate big weddings. It's stupid IMO. I know couples that spent over £10,000 to get married and get a divorce after two years.

I've learnt some women go for wealth and social status when it comes to a marriage partner so I decided to give up until I have money like Bill Gates.:exhausted

These type of women are pathetic ugh.

Oh I forgot to mention my beard reminds them of a "caveman" and they want me to shave it off for them, this is another reason.

Tell them Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) used to keep a beard. That should keep them quiet.

I'm personally sick of my culture.

[FS123]

Well, I'm doing well as far as income is concerned, but money can go away anytime. Second, my life is not easy. So far I've not been able to find a person who I feel is right for me - a person with patience and who can have good relationship. In short a woman with taqwa and not just on the surface. Pray for me, I find the right one who is good for me for this life and afterlife.

[Tyrion]

Oh I forgot to mention my beard reminds them of a "caveman" and they want me to shave it off for them, this is another reason.

You could always clean/trim/groom to make it less... caveman-ish...

[Al-Mufarridun]

:sl:

I heard a funny story from a friend the other day. There was a brother that had some close friends who were married, while he was single. They were very close friends, so after sometime the Brother finally got married. About a week later, people saw him chasing his friends with a stick. Someone stopped him and asked; 'hold on, aren't these your dear friends?' He replied, "NO!! they are my enemies! They call themselves my friends, Why did they hide from me the Joys of marriage and allowed me to remain single for that long!" :D

May Allah(swt) make it easy for us what is Halal and Protect us from the Haraam! Ameen!

[noorseeker]

^^^^^

and 3 months later his wife will be chasing him with a stick:D

[Abz2000]

i'd say it's a physical necessity for some - regardless of love or match etc - just to keep away from fitnah - then again - not everyone's the same, but anyone can derail at any time - so i'd say: she's gonna eat food and wear clothes anyway and so are you, so why not get married and eat food and wear clothes - if it doesn't work out - divorce nad remarry like the prophet's companions did - it was normal,
it's better than becoming like the people of sodom, or like what we see now.

[Al-Mufarridun]

^^^^^

and 3 months later his wife will be chasing him with a stick:d

lol..........

['Abd Al-Maajid]

My time has not yet come to get married. Although I have a degree, I have to secure my career, get a good job first.

[Abz2000]

/\ I disagree with you 100% there, securing a career and getting a good job were never the pre-requisites of marriage, while marriage is a part of faith. even slaves got married, companions of the prophet (pbuh) got married on the day of battle, I'm sure you'd agree that's not a stable worldly career, but it was a requirement of faith to fight evil promptings and urges.

The prophet (pbuh) once saw a woman and felt different, so he quickly went to visit his wife zainab who was tanning a piece of leather, he then advised his companions to immediately visit their wives if they felt different after seeing strange women.
How would you do that if you're unmarried?
Would you write a cv and get a good job?
Then get married and then go to your wife to dispel those thoughts?
I think you'd be a few months late and many youngsters succumb to temptations simply because this Muslim tradition of marrying early has been abandoned

['Abd Al-Maajid]

We are slaves to the dogma that we should have a good paying job before we can even think of getting married. lol so cant help, man. :p

[Salahudeen]

You could always clean/trim/groom to make it less... caveman-ish...

It's actually very clean since I wash it 5 times a day, and it is tidy and neat, but they see the whole concept of having a beard as caveman-ish regardless of how tidy and groomed it is.

[Salahudeen]

/\ I disagree with you 100% there, securing a career and getting a good job were never the pre-requisites of marriage, while marriage is a part of faith. even slaves got married, companions of the prophet (pbuh) got married on the day of battle, I'm sure you'd agree that's not a stable worldly career, but it was a requirement of faith to fight evil promptings and urges.

The prophet (pbuh) once saw a woman and felt different, so he quickly went to visit his wife zainab who was tanning a piece of leather, he then advised his companions to immediately visit their wives if they felt different after seeing strange women.
How would you do that if you're unmarried?
Would you write a cv and get a good job?
Then get married and then go to your wife to dispel those thoughts?
I think you'd be a few months late and many youngsters succumb to temptations simply because this Muslim tradition of marrying early has been abandoned

I think it's because the standard of living was not so high in that time that men could easily provide for their wife's, I remember hearing they would live off the two black things, dates and I can't remember the other thing, every man today could provide a simple life style like they lived in the time of the prophet (saw) but that's not sufficient any more for most women. So marriage has become harder due to people wanting luxurious life styles.

[Abz2000]

Dunno, mine doesn't feel cavemanish - but then again, I've number 2d it a couple of years back (zarkawi style) and it feels stylish, and Muslims still recognise it on the streets as it is almost unique to Muslim youth, and not like that of the Jews or Christians (their's is long now).

[Abz2000]

i told my wife on the first week of marriage that I'd heard of women who try to separate their sons from their duty to parents and I wouldn't have it, she agreed,
I also regularly tell her I'll do what I can so she doesnt bug me when it comes to providing, she did once mentioned me not yet having a car and I was p...d off (later) and told her I'll get it when I can or if I didnt -so what? Had she been feeling inferior because of seeing others with flash cars?

28. O Prophet! Say to thy Consorts: "If it be that ye desire the life of this World, and its glitter,- then come! I will provide for your enjoyment and set you free in a handsome manner.

29. But if ye seek Allah and His Messenger, and the Home of the Hereafter, verily Allah has prepared for the well-doers amongst you a great reward.
Quran 33

Don't get me wrong, I like flash cars etc, but if I can't afford it, i wait, and the way i see it, if a spouse ain't happy with that, she's with the wrong person. There are many sisters out there that are content with a righteous husband and will share the struggles, though they're hard to find, they are there and the prophet pbuh is reported to have said:
"A man solicits a woman in marriage for four reasons:
her wealth, her family’s rank, her beauty, or her piety.
Choose the pious one, and you will have gained true wealth."

4794. It is related by Abu Hurayra that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said,
"The best of women are the riders of camels, the righteous women of Quraysh.
They are the most compassionate to their children when they are young
and most prudent with the property of their husbands.

I'd even go to gaza and seek to marry an orphaned daughter of a martyr if I needed to marry and could afford it and id even settle there if possible. and that's a real strong girl, lots of blessings, and possibly not a great cost, but a link to the people at the forefront of Islam
."

[Salahudeen]

We are slaves to the dogma that we should have a good paying job before we can even think of getting married. lol so cant help, man. :p

And what is the result of this bro? What effect has this had upon the youth? What have many young people resorted to in order to fulfil their needs because of this mentality? imsad I don't see it changing any time soon either, probably will get more worse.

['Abd Al-Maajid]

And what is the result of this bro? What effect has this had upon the youth? What have many young people resorted to in order to fulfil their needs because of this mentality? imsad I don't see it changing any time soon either, probably will get more worse.

Haha, that's good question. I dont know what is the result of this but if express my feeling of getting married to my parents they'd say, "dont you think you should get a good job first?" :D this is so embarrassing...lol
What have many young people resorted to in order to fulfill their needs? Should they do something to fulfill theri needs actually? well some have resorted to haram relationships even before they complete their education, i mean they cant even wait to have relationships and get laid lol. others somehow managed to curb their desires. I know some people of my age who got married.

[Salahudeen]

Haha, that's good question. I dont know what is the result of this but if express my feeling of getting married to my parents they'd say, "dont you think you should get a good job first?" :D this is so embarrassing...lol
What have many young people resorted to in order to fulfill their needs? Should they do something to fulfill theri needs actually? well some have resorted to haram relationships even before they complete their education, i mean they cant even wait to have relationships and get laid lol. others somehow managed to curb their desires. I know some people of my age who got married.

lol aw :( well inshaAllah when your kids tell you that they want to get married you will support them and make it easy for them, many have resorted to haraam cos they can't curb their desires and that's the problem with the waiting till you have a job with good salary mentality, it's very easy to fall into sin.

['Abd Al-Maajid]

^ yes, it is very easy to fall into haram things...
at my work place girls follow me...lol :D they advance their hands, sit beside in the cab (with all their funky perfumes) pat here and there,...lol So i always try to them. the funniest part is many men and women dont find any harm in that.
i know shaking hands couldn't not be that detrimental but that could lead you to do many more haram things...

Final summation: Life is (removed by moderator) if you work in an IT company here in my city and you are not married. :D

[ardianto]

've learnt some women go for wealth and social status when it comes to a marriage partner so I decided to give up until I have money like Bill Gates. Oh I forgot to mention my beard reminds them of a "caveman" and they want me to shave it off for them, this is another reason.

Forget those materialist women, and try to looking for religious Muslim sisters.

Religious Muslim sisters do not expect a rich man, but they expect salih Muslim who can be a good husband. As long as you are religious, you have a job, you have a responsibility to fulfill what your wife needs, its enough, no matter if your income is low or high.

All you need is connection with someone or some people in Islamic institution, such as masjid or Muslim organization, who know you personally, because they will not recommend a stranger. Tell those people you are looking for a wife. If they definite you are worth to marry a religious Muslim sister, they will recommend your name to a sister.

Some religious brother who I know got their wives through this way. And bro, if you are active in Islamic activities, it will becomes your plus point.

[gladTidings]

Why I am not married...

..still waiting for a righteous man and working towards righteousness in the meantime (albeit very slowly).

To br thread opener, these matters are in Allahs hands, sometimes even with all the right means and intentions we are unsuccessful in finding a compatible partner. Also, as some of the brothers mentioned there are many cultural expectations that have to be fulfilled before families/walis consider us eligible for marriage. This is all self-imposed rubbish that has no basis in Islam.

[Abz2000]

that's why we've got to change it,
i notice many scholars saying you have to get your parents blessing to marry, but that is when the parents are within the limits of Islam,
this is a flagrant violation of those limits. i believe young people should study Islam and get married if they find the right match and their parents are playing in shallowness (she's from a lower caste, he's a lowlander, not a chowdhury etc).

14. And We have enjoined on man (to be good) to his parents: in travail upon travail did his mother bear him, and in years twain was his weaning: (hear the command), "Show gratitude to Me and to thy parents: to Me is (thy final) Goal.
15. "But if they strive to make thee join in worship with Me things of which thou hast no knowledge, obey them not; yet bear them company in this life with justice (and consideration),
and follow the way of those who turn to me: in the end the return of you all is to Me, and I will tell you the truth (and meaning) of all that ye did."

i personally see many parents turn a blind eye to the indecent exploits of their children, and themselves sit there with the whole family watching ridiculous bollywood stories.
suggest marriage and they'll be shocked: my daughter's studying for a B.S

Exactly - it's B.S without the limits of God.

Sorry...... just had to vent that

[User29123]

They want me to kick my mum who raised me all her life, and move out into our own place. while my mum rotts away in a empty house :hmm: There's also the fact I don't have a lucrative job and a fancy car :hmm: not saying all women are like this but this has been my experience so far. Oh yeah I don't make enough to go on holiday every year also ;D

I've learnt some women go for wealth and social status when it comes to a marriage partner so I decided to give up until I have money like Bill Gates.:exhausted Oh I forgot to mention my beard reminds them of a "caveman" and they want me to shave it off for them, this is another reason.

Hey maybe we can build a social network together or the next operating system eh?:hmm:

No but i think to many people think about money, think of it as this "providing you have money for your family & poor, then your all good". Second if your a man/women from western countries you will probably have big debts to deal with, from Uni, I just recommend people go to Middle east where no debs or tax ( in some countries)...

[kingkong]

I am getting married, married to a girl from Pakistan, I'm in the UK.

The cost of the wedding excluding the tickets, is estimated around £50 - £60k. My clothes alone and I kid you not when I say this, but mines have cost £2k, I'm the guy for crying out loud, how is it possible that my clothes cost 2k? The girl's clothes are estimated around £6k, the jewellery will cost around £6k. Then comes all the effort to make a nice home in Pakistan for the wedding and here in UK for when she arrives, that together cost £50k ish, fortunately my dad has done most of it, if it were just me, I'd have never been able to afford it.

I feel for those from poorer backgrounds, because weddings and I blame the women in my culture, because they are so selfish, so greedy they waste so much money on weddings.

Because of the cost of this wedding it will be another 6 months of travelling on the bus to work, that takes me 2 hours and 2 hours back everyday.

Weddings are a total and utter waste of money these days. They are absolutely shameless and extravagant events in the modern world.

[User29123]

I am getting married, married to a girl from Pakistan, I'm in the UK.

The cost of the wedding excluding the tickets, is estimated around £50 - £60k. My clothes alone and I kid you not when I say this, but mines have cost £2k, I'm the guy for crying out loud, how is it possible that my clothes cost 2k? The girl's clothes are estimated around £6k, the jewellery will cost around £6k. Then comes all the effort to make a nice home in Pakistan for the wedding and here in UK for when she arrives, that together cost £50k ish, fortunately my dad has done most of it, if it were just me, I'd have never been able to afford it.

I feel for those from poorer backgrounds, because weddings and I blame the women in my culture, because they are so selfish, so greedy they waste so much money on weddings.

Because of the cost of this wedding it will be another 6 months of travelling on the bus to work, that takes me 2 hours and 2 hours back everyday.

Weddings are a total and utter waste of money these days. They are absolutely shameless and extravagant events in the modern world.

I agree I know how those Pakistani are like so selfish....that's why i aint never getting married from Pakistan..

[FS123]

i told my wife on the first week of marriage that I'd heard of women who try to separate their sons from their duty to parents and I wouldn't have it, she agreed

That is what I'm afraid of. Depends on the person if she agrees, hence, I'm very careful.

[FS123]

I agree I know how those Pakistani are like so selfish....that's why i aint never getting married from Pakistan..

Pakistan has so much issues. :(

[User29123]

Pakistan has so much issues. :(

Corruption init...

[kingkong]

I agree I know how those Pakistani are like so selfish....that's why i aint never getting married from Pakistan..

The women in my family are just as worse. I don't blame the Pakistanis in Pakistan as such, because the girls and families here are pretty bad too. It's the women in my culture, both in Pakistan and abroad, weddings can never be simple. For some inexplicable reason they've created a system where you have to try and outdo all previous weddings in terms of extravagance.

The men try to speak out and explain why this is not good, but their wives accuse them of being like Scrooge or very stingy.

It sounds sexist, but it's the truth, the women are the selfish money wasters and the men just go along to avoid weeks and possibly months even years of headaches about how awful their wedding is.

I can understand why many brothers are put off marriage.

What makes it worse is, after all that money spent on the wedding to make the females happy, I mean most men couldn't care less about the wedding. But after all that money spent on the wedding, the girl's family have the nerve and the audacity to ask for a high mahr?

[GuestFellow]

For some inexplicable reason they've created a system where you have to try and outdo all previous weddings in terms of extravagance.

Salaam,

It's just an excuse to have a party and show-off. Ugh...I so hate my culture but I love the food.

[Reflections]

When and if it is in your taqdeer to get married then that's when it will happen..those who are single should just keep making du'a Allah makes it easy for you to stay away from fitna and grant you a pious chaste spouse with good akhlaq etc..ameen...don't lose hope..(even if it's hard) because it will come when it's best for you.

[noorseeker]

When and if it is in your taqdeer to get married then that's when it will happen..those who are single should just keep making du'a Allah makes it easy for you

Does this mean, we just carry on with our lives and hope someone sends us a proposal .

[jimbo123]

It is frustrating. I delayed marriage (looking for someone via parents/networking etc) for so long thinking yeah 'how hard can it be?' BIG SURPRISE, no one responds to my messages on matrimonial websites and my parents haven't been able to find me anyone - I think it's just that no one has taken a liking to me imsad.

Luckily I'm a patient guy and there's 3 things which help me:
1. Make constant dua to Allah. Believe that one day Allah will marry you to someone right for you and if not in this life then in the hereafter.
2. Always keep busy with productive things. Keep busy! I eliminated films and videogames from my diet. I read more, participate in kung fu classes and spend time with family. Just think of things you have always wanted to do, I have always wanted to learn Kung Fu but put it at the back of my mind.
3. Don't masturbate. It is tempting if you are single but if you do you will lose your mojo and become lazy. Fast voluntarily and follow steps 1, 2.

[M.I.A.]

Corruption init...

thats the state of the world, if any country was perfect we would all want to live there.
it would probably not be perfect for very long.

[Abz2000]

i also think it's something psychological and natural since the women like to show their friends how treasured they are, (like when big brother or dad picks them up from school or college in the best car),
and also show the future husband that they ain't free and require effort.

but personally i think it's a bit inconsiderate, as it makes life more of a struggle for them both - and when they end up taking out a haram bank loan to fund it - the blessing is not there.

my friend who lives a few floors above me got married last year, they spent some 20-30k on a lavish wedding, diamonds, gold etc,
he was reluctant and would always come to me for advice since he knew i study a lot and practice what i can,
i told him to say he couldn't and if she was the right person for him, she would be understanding - otherwise it's not worth it from the start,
however his mum made him and his dad sort it, he took out a big bank loan etc and got married,
for the first few weeks she told him she was unwell and couldn't uhuuum,
slowly i noticed some sort of friction, and she would spend as much time as possible at her parents and he was always angry and frustrated,
then after a couple of months they broke up,
it turned out that she couldn't uhuum - because she was a hermaphrodite.
she had just hoped that since he'd stuck by her and told her he loved her, he'd slowly just come to terms with it and accept it, and they'd live happily ever after.
but she didn't tell him anything about herself, and nor did her parents tell his parents,
sad,
he was sooooo depressed, and when he was angry at her deceit and told her he couldn't stay married to her - she took off with all the gold and diamonds etc,
i couldn't understand her family's demand for the lavish wedding, but i guess it must've been to tie him in.

well thats 30k "well spent",

i had even sat with him before the wedding googling and giving him hadiths of the Prophet regarding reasonable weddings, and the fact that he was taking out a haraam bank loan would mean there's no blessing on Allah's part and he agreed with me but couldn't get the women to budge,

A dower can be a very little amount. At the time of the Prophet, a woman accepted a pair of shoes as her dower. The Prophet asked her whether it was her decision and whether she accepts. She answered in the affirmative and he endorsed the marriage. Another woman came to the Prophet and declared that she makes a gift of herself to the Prophet. A man asked him to marry her to him. The Prophet asked him whether he had anything to give her by-way of dower. The man said that he had nothing except his dress. The Prophet said that if he were to give her his dress, he would have nothing to wear. The man tried to fund something to give her but could come up with nothing. The Prophet said try to send even a ring of iron, but the man could not find anything. The Prophet asked him whether he memorized anything of the Qur'an, the man said he knew several surahs. The Prophet allowed the marriage to go through on the condition that the man would teach his wife the parts of the Qur'an he knew.

Another story from the time of the Prophet, which has been reported by Anas, says that Abu Talhah made a proposal to marry a woman called Umm Sulaim.
She said: "You are a man whom no woman would refuse,
but you are a non-Muslim while I am a Muslim.
It is not permissible for me to many you.
If you were to become a Muslim, I will accept that as my dower and I ask you for nothing else."
He declared that he has accepted the religion of Islam. That was the dower he gave to his wife.
All these hadiths show that it is permissible to give a small amount of money as a dower or even to pay it in the form of rendering a service, such as teaching one's wife some parts of the Qur' an.

but again - it seems all down to situation
The first opinion states that exorbitant dowers are permissible. An evidence for this view is the following verse of the Qur'an, "If you have given one of them a great amount (qintaar), do not take any of it back" (4:20).

While commenting on this verse, Ibn Katheer stated, "In this verse there is an indication that it is allowed to give a great deal of wealth as a dower." Al-Qurtubi said in his commentary, "This verse is evidence that it is allowed to be exorbitant in dowers as Allah does not give as an example except what is permissible."

In a public address, Umar stated, "Listen! Do not become exorbitant when it comes to the dowers of women. Verily, if such a thing were noble in this world or an act of obedience to Allah, the first one to demand such would be the Prophet [peace be upon him (PBUH)].

However, the Prophet (PBUH) never gave in dower to his wives or asked for dower for his daughters anything in excess of twelve auqiyah." A woman stood up to him and said, "O Umar, Allah has give us and you forbid us. Didn't Allah say in the Qur'an, "If you have given one of them a great amount (qintar), do not take any of it back'(4:20)?" Then Umar said, "A woman is correct and Umar is mistaken." Then he stopped his prohibiting them.

The dower, according to the Shari'ah, is a gift and offering. Thus, it has no prescribed limit. People differ with respect to being rich or poor. So the Shari'ah has left everyone to set its limit according to their ability."

The Second Opinion:

The second opinion is that it is not allowed to have exorbitant dowers. The followers of this view reply to the verse that was used as evidence by the people of the first opinion by saying that the verse is irrelevant to this issue for the following reasons:

First, the example of a qintaar (a large amount of wealth) is only an exaggerated method to stress the point that even if one had given them a great deal of wealth, he cannot take back any portion of it. It is similar in vein to the Prophet's (PBUH) statement, "For whoever builds a mosque for the sake of Allah the size of a grouse's nest, Allah will build for him a house in Paradise." But there cannot be a mosque the size of a grouse's nest." (Ibn Majah)

Second, it is not necessary that when one thing is stated as a conditional aspect for something else that the first thing is in itself permissible. Allah's saying, "You had given them," does not indicate that it is permissible to give such an amount. It is like the Prophet's statement, "If someone has a relative killed, he has two choices: either he can be paid the blood money or he may exact retribution." (Bukhari)

Furthermore, the most that one can say about this verse is that it allows the one who has the ability to pay a large dower to pay such a dower. However, it does not mean that the one who does not have such ability may be forced to pay that amount.

This is indicated by the Prophet (PBUH) objecting to Abu Hadrad al-Aslami when he came to the Prophet (PBUH) to seek assistance in paying the dower of his wife. The Messenger of Allah (PBUH) asked him, "What is the amount of her dower?" He said, "Two hundred dirhams." The Prophet (PBUH) then said, "If you were to dig out (the silver) in the valley of Bathaan, you would not exceed that amount." Recorded by al-Hakim who said that its chain is sahih although al-Bukahri and Muslim did not record it. Al-Dhahabi concurred with his assessment.

He also objected to the woman from the Ansar who got married with the dower being four awaaq (of silver) as that was not appropriate for her situation. Muslim recorded in his Sahih from Abu Hurairah who said: "A man came to the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) and said, "I am getting married to a woman from the Ansar". The Prophet (PBUH) said to him, "Have you taken a look at her for in the eyes of the Ansar there is something (unpleasant for those not used to it)?" He said, "I have taken a look at her". He (PBUH) then said, "What was the amount (of the dower) for the marriage?" He replied, "Four uqiyas." The Prophet (PBUH) then said to him, "With four uqiyas? It is as if you dig out silver from the side of this mountain (and that is how you plan on paying this great amount). We do not have anything we can give you. However, we may send you on a military expedition and you may end up getting something (that is, some booty)." The Prophet (PBUH) sent an expedition to Banu Abs and he sent that man along with them.

Al-Nawawi wrote in his commentary to Sahih Muslim, "The meaning of those words is the disapproval of increasing the dower relative to the situation of the husband."

[Salahudeen]

^That is a truly sad story, he and his family must've been devastated, may Allah make his affairs easy for him and bless him with a pious wife ameen.

The women in my family are just as worse. I don't blame the Pakistanis in Pakistan as such, because the girls and families here are pretty bad too. It's the women in my culture, both in Pakistan and abroad, weddings can never be simple. For some inexplicable reason they've created a system where you have to try and outdo all previous weddings in terms of extravagance.

The men try to speak out and explain why this is not good, but their wives accuse them of being like Scrooge or very stingy.

It sounds sexist, but it's the truth, the women are the selfish money wasters and the men just go along to avoid weeks and possibly months even years of headaches about how awful their wedding is.

I can understand why many brothers are put off marriage.

What makes it worse is, after all that money spent on the wedding to make the females happy, I mean most men couldn't care less about the wedding. But after all that money spent on the wedding, the girl's family have the nerve and the audacity to ask for a high mahr?

I know what you mean brother, your post echo's my personal experiences with women so far about how wealth and social status is the most important thing for quite a few women. If you can provide the simple life they don't wanna know, If you can provide a luxury life with holidays cars etc they're interested. And that's why this mentality exists that you must have a good job with good salary before you get married. Even my aunties tell me "no woman wants to marry a man with a crappy job who can just afford a modest life style, so you better do good in education and get a good job" :hmm: I think I will end up going Pakistan also and finding a village girl who is pleased with little inshaAllah.

[ardianto]

My wedding cost was not so expensive. My wife and her family didn't expect extravaganza wedding. Even we didn't buy our wedding dress, but hired. And the mahr were only Qur'an, sajadah, mukena (salah cloth for woman), and small amount of money as symbol.

Me and my wife were coming from different background. I came from middle class, and she was not. But she married me not for wealth. My relationship was started from friendship , you can read about it in another thread.

We married at 1994. My wife was working in a bank, and I was a businessman. But I made many mistakes in business. Around two years after our wedding I fell into bankruptcy. I lost my company, my car, one of my house, my money, and I gone depressed. I became a jobless person while my wife still worked as customer service officer in her bank. A position that made her meet many rich men. Some people urged her to leave me and marry a rich man, an even some men tried to approach her. But she refused that, and she still loyal to me.

August 98. Finally we got a baby, and few months later govt liquidated the bank where my wife was working. Her ex-colleagues tried to find a new jobs and also offered her a job. But she refused it made an amazing decision, became a fulltime house wife and took care our baby.

We were living in financial difficulty. I was working as freelance salesman in several companies, and gained only small amount of money. But my wife never complain, she knew I didn't have money and she didn't ask me to buy something that expensive. And even she always support me. Finally in 2002 I took over a courier agent that later became our turning point. Alhamdulillah, now we are not in financial difficulty again.

That's my story.

And to my unmarried brothers. I hope Allah will gives you a wife who has beauty, patience, loyalty, and obedience like my wife. But my advice, try to accept your wife totally with her advantage and disadvantage. Try to always love your wife, and your wife will always love you with the greater love.

Now I have been married my wife for 17 years, but sometime when we were perform salah in jama'ah, she wore mukena that I gave as my mahr. And she told me that's because she is very happy to be my wife.

:)


PS : I believe, women like my wife are exist in everywhere. You can find them in Pakistan too.

[Who Am I?]

I think my reasons have been discussed here multiple times, but here is a quick recap.

1. Debt issues.

2. Family issues.

3. Personal issues.

[aadil77]

I swear it is like a hundred times harder for a man to get married than a woman and on top of that we're the ones with the higher needs. Its mostly finance reasons for me, I've got my existing family to look after before I can even think of starting a new one.
People who are having troubles finding pious wifes - you lot need to come to Leicester. I've heard of brothers here having the nikah in the masjid and just a simple dinner with close family/friends for the wedding. :shade:

[User29123]

I heard that in Islam the male is supposed to may for weddings/nikkha. That would be a bigger problem to you gotta be rich....

[Abz2000]

I heard that in Islam the male is supposed to may for weddings/nikkha. That would be a bigger problem to you gotta be rich....

the male gives a large gift to the bride, but goes to the brides side to pick her up, and so the brides side has a celebration and invites everyone to a feast, the male then brings the bride back and calls a feast,
this can be small or large, expensive or cheap, depending on the ability of both parties,

my family and their's got together and did the wedding and walima together - split halfway.
my sister wanted to hire a more expensive hall, but the mother in law said: that's nothing to do with her where we choose it, as the main feast is the wedding.
went low cost and smoothly - other than all the tickets to BD.

[piXie]

Reading some of these experiences has been quite sad. May Allaah help all of you to find a good spouse very soon.

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

As'Salaamu Alaaykum

['Abd-al Latif]

Assalam o alaikum all,

I've a question for all you single people out there who have been actively looking tget married

What's your biggest frustration / fear in getting married , the reason why you haven't gotten married so far?

I ask cuz I've been happily married for a few years and I love this - I just wonder why my friends (and some of my wife's friends) aren't able to get married.

:salamext:

I have many frustrations, each one as petty as the next. But instead of worrying about these problems, I looked at their wisdoms because after all the decree of Allah is always good.

Of the biggest wisdom I learnt is to be diligent in keeping my duty to Allah, and not allow marriage to distance me from Him. I know this sounds very odd, but many people are not the same after marriage. I remember attending the weddings of my friends who are dear and beloved to me, and thinking to myself on the day of their wedding "when is it gonna be me?", but subhanAllah these same brothers have changed since. I have seen a change in their mannerisms, laxity in their worship and decrease in their diligence in pursuit of the hereafter. This came to me as a surprise as these were once brothers who were beacons of guidance amongst their peers, but somehow marriage has caused a changed in them.

I still love these brothers very much, but seeing this has been a lesson for me to stay firm and steadfast upon my duties to Allah - now and after marriage. Marriage will come, but it is not the criteria for success. Success in this life and the next is for those who ...persevere patiently... [3:186]

[ardianto]

I have many frustrations, each one as petty as the next. But instead of worrying about these problems, I looked at their wisdoms because after all the decree of Allah is always good.

Of the biggest wisdom I learnt is to be diligent in keeping my duty to Allah, and not allow marriage to distance me from Him. I know this sounds very odd, but many people are not the same after marriage. I remember attending the weddings of my friends who are dear and beloved to me, and thinking to myself on the day of their wedding "when is it gonna be me?", but subhanAllah these same brothers have changed since. I have seen a change in their mannerisms, laxity in their worship and decrease in their diligence in pursuit of the hereafter. This came to me as a surprise as these were once brothers who were beacons of guidance amongst their peers, but somehow marriage has caused a changed in them.

I still love these brothers very much, but seeing this has been a lesson for me to stay firm and steadfast upon my duties to Allah - now and after marriage. Marriage will come, but it is not the criteria for success. Success in this life and the next is for those who ...persevere patiently... [3:186]

:salamext:

Depending of what kind of wives who they married. If they married Good wives they would become better persons. If they married Bad wives they would become worse persons.


PS : Good and Bad in this post is not physical appearance, but character, behavior, personality and religious level.

['Abd-al Latif]

:salamext:

Depending of what kind of wives who they married. If they married Good wives they would become better persons. If they married Bad wives they would become worse persons.


PS : Good and Bad in this post is not physical appearance, but character, behavior, personality and religious level.

As far as I know, all of these women are religiously committed. :)

[ardianto]

As far as I know, all of these women are religiously committed.

Are you sure ?

I know some brothers who become worse after they married women who focus on dunya matter such as wealth and luxury. I know some brothers who become better after they married religious women. But this is the first time I hear someone becomes worse after married a religious woman.

['Abd-al Latif]

Are you sure ?

I know some brothers who become worse after they married women who focus on dunya matter such as wealth and luxury. I know some brothers who become better after they married religious women. But this is the first time I hear someone becomes worse after married a religious woman.

Yes I am sure. But I only mentioned all of this to highlight the real goal in life.

[Ghazalah]

Of the biggest wisdom I learnt is to be diligent in keeping my duty to Allah, and not allow marriage to distance me from Him. I know this sounds very odd, but many people are not the same after marriage.

Ditto. People change after marriage, either for the best or worse, but never use marriage as a means of moving away from Allah swt. Singles should make dua they marry a righteous spouse who will help them become more religious inshAllah. :D

[Who Am I?]

Ditto. People change after marriage, either for the best or worse, but never use marriage as a means of moving away from Allah swt. Singles should make dua they marry a righteous spouse who will help them become more religious inshAllah. :D

:sl:

Well, this single prays that he will become a better man first and foremost. I'll worry about the rest later.

[noorseeker]

One frustration is i didnt want to be a old dad, well im nearly 30, so there goes that lol.

My family just want me to get married, borrow money, its not that easy , firstly i have to pay that money back , and secondly after that one big day, im going to be the one left at the end of the month struggling because i have no disposable income,


And all us singletons, we should remember , once we get married, it doesnt mean we are going to be happy, sure it will take the lonliness,. but its a lot of responsibilty, so im dont knw why me or anyone else are running for it.

I wont be able to nap or be able to leave my socks on da floor and have to share my sweeties;D

[User29123]

One frustration is i didnt want to be a old dad, well im nearly 30, so there goes that lol.

My family just want me to get married, borrow money, its not that easy , firstly i have to pay that money back , and secondly after that one big day, im going to be the one left at the end of the month struggling because i have no disposable income,


And all us singletons, we should remember , once we get married, it doesnt mean we are going to be happy, sure it will take the lonliness,. but its a lot of responsibilty, so im dont knw why me or anyone else are running for it.

I wont be able to nap or be able to leave my socks on da floor and have to share my sweeties;D

Of course it's not easy you have to feed your family since its the males job. Imagine having four wifes eh?:statisfie:statisfie

[*Yasmin*]

my dream is to finish my degree then get married .. however i've been facing the pressure of society since i've got in college.. all my relatives ask me when will you get engaged and stuff .. i simply say : i don't want to meanwhile ! ..
to my society this is not a logic reason/answer .. and i can understand .. but it's very logic for me coz i don't want to fail in marriage .. i must be prepared .. coz marriage has a lot of responsibility .. besides i believe when my Nasib comes! nothing will stand in between .. so no need to hasten anything .. and one must be careful in choosing his/her partner ..

[Abz2000]

i don't think marriage in general reduces ones good, some spouses motivate each other to good,
and each spouse also sees doing good as a way of pleasing Almighty God AND their spouse at the same time,
as can be seen from the Quran, Prophet Zakariya and his wife would rush or race to do good,

the words are;

innahum kaanoo yusaari'oona fil khayrat

verily they would rush/race in good deeds


89. And (remember) Zakariya, when he cried to his Lord: "O my Lord! leave me not without offspring, though thou art the best of inheritors."
90. So We listened to him: and We granted him Yahya: We cured his wife's (Barrenness) for him.
These (three) were ever quick in emulation in good works;
they used to call on Us with love and reverence, and humble themselves before Us.
91. And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: We breathed into her of Our spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for all peoples.
92. Verily, this brotherhood of yours is a single brotherhood, and I am your Lord and Cherisher: therefore serve Me (and no other).

Quran: 21:89-92

[Muhaba]

I think one reason religious ppl find it difficult to get married is because men are ON Mars and women are ON Venus so they don't meet easily.

is it as difficult for non-religious ppl to get married too? I've seen many non-religious ppl getting married rather quiclkly.

[ardianto]

Basically everyone wants to have life-partner and establish a family. But they realized people have a conception, to get a spouse, a woman must attractive, a man must have success life and rich, and both of them must communicative or able to talk.

Unfortunately not every person is 'lucky'. There are women (and also men) who physically not beautiful, there are men who born in poor families and life in poverty, there are many people who not able to speak like an extrovert persons.

It makes those 'unlucky' people have low confidence and underestimate themselves. They regard themselves as not worthy for their potential spouse. And they are afraid, when they meet a potential spouse, this potential spouse will reject them.

"Fear of Rejection" feeling is the main factor that makes people not able to get married.

No wonder if we can find unmarried men who never try to find a woman, or unmarried women who always lock themselves in their rooms and afraid to meet any man, although those men and women actually are expecting a marriage. Sometime happened, someone wants to 'matched' those 'unlucky' people, but one or even both refuse this help, and they miss the opportunity.

[ardianto]

I swear it is like a hundred times harder for a man to get married than a woman

Totally wrong. Men are easier to get married than women.

Men are in position that find women. When a man find a woman but this woman reject him, or another man had comes earlier, he can try to find another woman. But women are in position that be found by men. If a woman wait for a man but no man comes to her, she can't do anything.

If a man doesn't get a woman this year, he can try to find again in next year. Age is not too detrimental for men. He is still attractive. But for women ?. We know what will happen to them when they are growing older.

If a man still unmarried in his 40's age, people regard him as free man who wants to enjoy his freedom. But if a woman still unmarried in her 40's age, ..... do you know what people say about her ?.

Sad, life is hundred times harder for women.

[jimbo123]

I think one reason religious ppl find it difficult to get married is because men are ON Mars and women are ON Venus so they don't meet easily.

is it as difficult for non-religious ppl to get married too? I've seen many non-religious ppl getting married rather quiclkly.

This is true but how do religious people meet each other? I don't mingle with girls and I don't want to marry a girl that has lots of "close" guy friends.

These are the things I've done but nothing is working:
1. Put a profile of myself up at the masjid - they have a marriage section.
2. singlemuslim.com and other matchmaking websites. I used to think "Yeah this is the way forward" but no, I've sent messages to so many profiles something like...

"Salams, I liked your profile particularly what you said about blah blah. Please have a look at mine when you get a chance".

I've noticed that when I narrow the search down to girls that pray regularly and wear a hijab they generally hide their pictures. Which is fair enough. But either way I hardly get any responses/interest (out of 50 or so messages I sent) and the thing which kills me is I don't know why! I think the human element is important and that people should meet each other even if it is for a minute or 2 (with Mahrams).

3. Elders are looking for someone for me with a picture and some basic bio-data. Likewise with the above I have a feeling that I'm just constantly being rejected. I know I'm not ugly so I don't know what it is.

I come from a family with lots of sisters so I do respect women and I would never fornicate or date with a woman regardless of how tempting it is because it is haram and also because I wouldn't want that to happen to my sisters. I know it's wrong to say/feel like this but all the rejections I have had over the months has made me frustrated and I know there's this hatred building up inside me against some women.

[ardianto]

I've noticed that when I narrow the search down to girls that pray regularly and wear a hijab they generally hide their pictures.

Is beauty important ?. :)

[Aprender]

Hmm. When I was a Christian marriage was not an option for me because I was either too religious or not pretty enough here in the West. It's strange to me because I always hear men complain of how they want a woman who can cook, a woman who is loyal, supportive and sticks to her faith. Or they say they want a woman who looks more natural and and who is more humble... Then when they find one like that they stay away and go for the pretty women who are quite the opposite of that. It's really quite confusing. So I don't think about it too much. If it's meant for me to get married, then it will happen. If not, then, it's just not meant for me. Allah knows.

[jimbo123]

Is beauty important ?. :)

The point I was trying to make is that it's annoying to be rejected so many times and not know what they look like. Then the one person that does reply will give me picture after messaging me a few times but I might not be attracted to her and then it becomes kind of awkward.

In answer to your question, I am not asking to marry the most beautiful supermodel but I do want there to be some level of attraction. Isn't it a sunnah that you should see the person you intend to marry?

[Tyrion]

Is beauty important ?.

Of course beauty is important... Why is this question even asked anymore?

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

As'Salaamu Alaaykum

I agree with bro ardianto..

Though beauty is something one tends to want, but then some people sometimes overlook character..Id day beauty, wealth, reputation would be a bonus for someone not a priority..but then again many will disagree with me..feel free to do so.

when ones time will come it shall surely come inshaa'Allaah.. You have to make the effort as well i.e. continue to do your part.

may Allaah SWT make it easy for all you brothers and sisters who want to get married and grant you happiness in this life and the hereafter Aameen.

[aadil77]

Totally wrong. Men are easier to get married than women.

Men are in position that find women. When a man find a woman but this woman reject him, or another man had comes earlier, he can try to find another woman. But women are in position that be found by men. If a woman wait for a man but no man comes to her, she can't do anything.

If a man doesn't get a woman this year, he can try to find again in next year. Age is not too detrimental for men. He is still attractive. But for women ?. We know what will happen to them when they are growing older.

If a man still unmarried in his 40's age, people regard him as free man who wants to enjoy his freedom. But if a woman still unmarried in her 40's age, ..... do you know what people say about her ?.

Sad, life is hundred times harder for women.

I disagree it takes years just for a man to become capable of marriage, getting qualifications, finding a job, becoming financially stable, having his own means of accomodation and at the same being able to look after parents - average youngest age is atleast 23. Whereas women do not have to support anyone - not even themselves, so they can get married even after high school at the age of 16. For a woman its family and elders that look for proposals - its not just a case of sitting at home and expecting someone to knock on your door without even sending the word out.

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

knock on your door without even sending the word out.

I agree.

You brothers and sisters need to work hard!

[noorseeker]

Sisters dont need a job , to start looking.

but its niether easy for either gender, we each have our own set of problems.

And some sisters can just rely on their beauty, leave school no qualifications, and end up with a doctor:hmm:

[ardianto]

Of course beauty is important... Why is this question even asked anymore?

Beauty is important to makes someone easier to get life-partner. But only in this stage. In marriage, beauty is not the main factor that makes someone feel happy with his/her partner. Maybe you have heard cases which a husband divorced his beautiful wife then married another woman who absolutely not beautiful. Or other cases which the husband who has beautiful wife made an affair with woman who not beautiful. If a man has two choices, live with a not-beautiful wife who treat and serve him nicely, or live with beautiful wife who disrespect him. except those who abnormal, every man will choose the first choice.

A wife who can makes the husband happy is wife who always respect to her husband and treat him nicely, no matter if she is beautiful or not beautiful. That's why if you look around you can find a handsome man who married a woman who physically not beautiful.

It's OK if you want to marry a beautiful woman, and is good if you can marry a woman like this. Because beautiful women are very selective in choosing their life partner. There is competition to get a woman like this. If you want to get a beautiful woman, you must be handsome, or rich, or have impressive personality. Are you ready for the competition ?. Remember, other competitors are also handsome, rich, or have impressive personality.

Actually, beauty is not something that can exist longer. So, if you marry a beautiful woman, love her totally, not only her beauty. If you love her beauty only, not so long your love to her will be lost.

And why I asked that question and used smile smiley ?

Bro, I was the handsome man and I married a beautiful woman. Of course I know how is life as beautiful person, and how is life with beautiful person.

:)

[ardianto]

I disagree it takes years just for a man to become capable of marriage, getting qualifications, finding a job, becoming financially stable, having his own means of accomodation and at the same being able to look after parents - average youngest age is atleast 23. Whereas women do not have to support anyone - not even themselves, so they can get married even after high school at the age of 16.

I didn't talk about finding a job to prepare stable financial before a man can get married. But I talked about men and women who have ready to marry. And in fact men are ready to marry in age that older than women.

For a woman its family and elders that look for proposals - its not just a case of sitting at home and expecting someone to knock on your door without even sending the word out

They look for proposal, but not send a proposal. They only thing that the woman's family can do is promote her. But if no one interested to this 'promotion', what they can do ?. Send marriage proposal ?. Marriage proposal from woman to a man is considered as inappropriate in many cultures, even in the West.

[ardianto]

Is physical beauty the only attraction for woman and for man ? :)

[Ansariyah]

I told my mom when I get married if I ever do, I'm taking you & dad with me. Or else I'm not getting married..point blank period.^-^

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

I told my mom when I get married if I ever do, I'm taking you & dad with me. Or else I'm not getting married..point blank period.^-^

It would be kool if that could happen.

[aadil77]

I told my mom when I get married if I ever do, I'm taking you & dad with me. Or else I'm not getting married..point blank period.^-^

and what if he's living with his parents? lol

[Intisar]

I told my mom when I get married if I ever do, I'm taking you & dad with me. Or else I'm not getting married..point blank period.^-^

Or they could just become your neighbors. ;D

['Abd Al-Maajid]

I told my mom when I get married if I ever do, I'm taking you & dad with me. Or else I'm not getting married..point blank period.^-^

and what if he's living with his parents? lol

One BIG happy family!!! lol

[GuestFellow]

^ Too crowded for my liking.

[Muhaba]

Basically everyone wants to have life-partner and establish a family. But they realized people have a conception, to get a spouse, a woman must attractive, a man must have success life and rich, and both of them must communicative or able to talk.

Unfortunately not every person is 'lucky'. There are women (and also men) who physically not beautiful, there are men who born in poor families and life in poverty, there are many people who not able to speak like an extrovert persons.

It makes those 'unlucky' people have low confidence and underestimate themselves. They regard themselves as not worthy for their potential spouse. And they are afraid, when they meet a potential spouse, this potential spouse will reject them.

"Fear of Rejection" feeling is the main factor that makes people not able to get married.

No wonder if we can find unmarried men who never try to find a woman, or unmarried women who always lock themselves in their rooms and afraid to meet any man, although those men and women actually are expecting a marriage. Sometime happened, someone wants to 'matched' those 'unlucky' people, but one or even both refuse this help, and they miss the opportunity.

It is wrong to be afraid of rejection because one will get married if it has been decreed. maybe some ppl like those qualities such as being shy and quiet.there may also be ppl who don't care so much about money. it's important to do dua to get someone who will accept you i guess.

[Salahudeen]

I think it's much harder for men because they get the desire for a wife from the age of 13-14 and they have to supress it all their life till they are about 26-27 when they are in a suitable position to get married, many times youngsters fail to suppress their desires and end up falling into sin. But all those years a man supresses his desires are a very hard struggle, every day he's fighting with his desires.

It's sad society is structured in this way that a man is not finanically ready to get married untill 24-26, even the age for marriage for men is rising because I have friends who finished uni when they were 23, and now they're 25 and still no job or wife, and it's not like they're not trying to get jobs, they try often but no one gives them. And without job they can't get wife so every day is struggle for them.

They could easily go out and get haraam girl friend and make her fall in love and then marry her cos she won't care that he has no job, but they fear Allah and wouldn't like this to happen with their own sisters so they don't do it.

And when they try halal methods, they just get rejected cos of no job even though their practicing and upon sunnah, practicing sisters even reject them and accept non practicing men with jobs, so I don't know, I feel bad for them, we live in hard times. It seems the key criteria for many women is if he has a job or not and is able to provide a luxury life, not if he is following sunnah or not.

[Ansariyah]

It would be kool if that could happen.

I will make it happen or else no getting married:hmm:

and what if he's living with his parents? lol

He should man up and leave the nest lol or make the nest spacious enough for all of us.:hmm:

Or they could just become your neighbors. ;D

The closer the better.:D

One BIG happy family!!! lol

Exactly:p

['Abd Al-Maajid]

It's sad society is structured in this way that a man is not finanically ready to get married untill 24-26, even the age for marriage for men is rising because I have friends who finished uni when they were 23, and now they're 25 and still no job or wife, and it's not like they're not trying to get jobs, they try often but no one gives them. And without job they can't get wife so every day is struggle for them.

They could easily go out and get haraam girl friend and make her fall in love and then marry her cos she won't care that he has no job, but they fear Allah and wouldn't like this to happen with their own sisters so they don't do it.

And when they try halal methods, they just get rejected cos of no job even though their practicing and upon sunnah, practicing sisters even reject them and accept non practicing men with jobs, so I don't know, I feel bad for them, we live in hard times.

*sobs* What can we do, bro... :( Its a struggle everyday...every minute...to get a job, to think about marriage...
Talking about these things will only make things worse...so chill!
*gets back to play MGS* :shade:

[aadil77]

*sobs* What can we do, bro... :( Its a struggle everyday...every minute...to get a job, to think about marriage...
Talking about these things will only make things worse...so chill!
*gets back to play MGS* :shade:

you've got a graduated and got a job, what you complaining about? :hiding:

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

I think it's much harder for men because they get the desire for a wife from the age of 13-14 and they have to supress it all their life till they are about 26-27 when they are in a suitable position to get married, many times youngsters fail to suppress their desires and end up falling into sin. But all those years a man supresses his desires are a very hard struggle, every day he's fighting with his desires.

It's sad society is structured in this way that a man is not finanically ready to get married untill 24-26, even the age for marriage for men is rising because I have friends who finished uni when they were 23, and now they're 25 and still no job or wife, and it's not like they're not trying to get jobs, they try often but no one gives them. And without job they can't get wife so every day is struggle for them.

They could easily go out and get haraam girl friend and make her fall in love and then marry her cos she won't care that he has no job, but they fear Allah and wouldn't like this to happen with their own sisters so they don't do it.

And when they try halal methods, they just get rejected cos of no job even though their practicing and upon sunnah, practicing sisters even reject them and accept non practicing men with jobs, so I don't know, I feel bad for them, we live in hard times. It seems the key criteria for many women is if he has a job or not and is able to provide a luxury life, not if he is following sunnah or not.

As'Salaam Alaaykum

Marriage does also have its trials..whether it be a women or a man.

Like someone mentioned one needs a job to marry and not a degree, working on a degree whilst marriage is an option? yes, i understand its difficult, so either you gain a degree, a good job and then marry and be patient or marry whilst gaining the degree and get a job and be patient.

Also some 'practising sisters' dont have 'practising' parents, so they are pushed into marrying someone with a good job/degree, because some parents want goodness for their child, so they feel if the man has a good job, he can give their daughter everything, happiness, etc etc.. im sure many will disagree with this..

besides, its not only the job factor preventing one from marriage, there are other factors also.

You see it is easy to commit sin, that door was never difficult, but to gain goodness can be difficult i.e sabr, bettering oneself, but is full of beautiful endless benefit and reward.

[Asiyah3]

I think it's much harder for men because they get the desire for a wife from the age of 13-14 and they have to supress it all their life till they are about 26-27 when they are in a suitable position to get married, many times youngsters fail to suppress their desires and end up falling into sin. But all those years a man supresses his desires are a very hard struggle, every day he's fighting with his desires.

It's sad society is structured in this way that a man is not finanically ready to get married untill 24-26, even the age for marriage for men is rising because I have friends who finished uni when they were 23, and now they're 25 and still no job or wife, and it's not like they're not trying to get jobs, they try often but no one gives them. And without job they can't get wife so every day is struggle for them.

They could easily go out and get haraam girl friend and make her fall in love and then marry her cos she won't care that he has no job, but they fear Allah and wouldn't like this to happen with their own sisters so they don't do it.

And when they try halal methods, they just get rejected cos of no job even though their practicing and upon sunnah, practicing sisters even reject them and accept non practicing men with jobs, so I don't know, I feel bad for them, we live in hard times. It seems the key criteria for many women is if he has a job or not and is able to provide a luxury life, not if he is following sunnah or not.

How about divorced sisters, widows with children, older sisters or those sisters who aren't beautiful?

Now replace the word "sisters" with brothers and see for whom it's harder to get married.

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

As'Salaam Alaaykum

I will make it happen or else no getting married

Actually i prefer this more : D a life on your own is so peaceful : D

He should man up and leave the nest lol or make the nest spacious enough for all of us.

exactly :-\

['Abd Al-Maajid]

How about divorced sisters, widows with children, older sisters or those sisters who aren't beautiful?

Now replace the word "sisters" with brothers and see for whom it's harder to get married.

It is difficult for brothers to marry if they are ugly, no?

[Salahudeen]

As'Salaam Alaaykum

Marriage does also have its trials..whether it be a women or a man.

Like someone mentioned one needs a job to marry and not a degree, working on a degree whilst marriage is an option? yes, i understand its difficult, so either you gain a degree, a good job and then marry and be patient or marry whilst gaining the degree and get a job and be patient.

Also some 'practising sisters' dont have 'practising' parents, so they are pushed into marrying someone with a good job/degree, because some parents want goodness for their child, so they feel if the man has a good job, he can give their daughter everything, happiness, etc etc.. im sure many will disagree with this..

besides, its not only the job factor preventing one from marriage, there are other factors also.

You see it is easy to commit sin, that door was never difficult, but to gain goodness can be difficult i.e sabr, bettering oneself, but is full of beautiful endless benefit and reward.

But what if there's no jobs around?? And the few jobs that are around require qualifications? You said he should not study and just get a job, well when I was 16 for two straight years I tried to get a job before I decided to go into uni, everywhere I went they wanted qualifications or experience, so it's not as easy as, get a job and get married or study and just be patient.

This raises another interesting question, due to the economoy being bad atm, what would happen if there was not enough jobs for every person in the population? Lets say there was only enough jobs for say 20% of the population and everyone else had to live off state benefits, would we as a Muslim ummah not marry and say "we can't get married because the government hasn't created any jobs" Would we leave marriage because there's no jobs in England for the men and we have to live off benefits?

Atm unemployment is going higher and higher so what do we do with all the Muslim men who through no fault of their own can't find a job? Do we say to them, you have to wait around till you have a job even if you're going into your 40's and your still a virgin you have to wait sir until you get a job even though the chances of you getting a job in the current economic climate virtually impossible. Is that fair?

Actually there was a time when marriage was easier than sin, when marriage was simple and not over complicated with 50k weddings and women were content with a roof over their head and would stand by their man through thick and thin, even if they had to live off simple food such as dates cos there was no other food, you know my grand ma, may Allah reward her with Jannah ameen, when my grand dad was poor in Pakistan they would live off 1 chapati a day, and she knew he was poor before she married him but her parents saw good qualities in him so they gave her hand to him, and she stuck by him, I guess the women of the past are not like the women of today. And in being fair the men of today are not like the men of the past.

I guess my experiences can be summarized with the following, women want a man who has taqwa and treats them like the prophet (saw) and follows sunnah but when they have to make sacrifices to have such a man, such as living a life that is not so luxurious, then they scrap all that and it's the guy with the most money and offers the best quality of life.

And this is the feedback I've been getting from other brothers also but not all women are like this, I actually know few brothers who found good women, they didn't have jobs when the women married them, and they lived off state benefits for quite a long period after marriage till the brothers found jobs, but the women were sincere in their seeking a brother who is righteous so they didn't mind. Btw in England we have state benefits so I don't see how it's possible for a man to not be able to provide for his wife??

Sure he can't provide the lifestyle of a queen for his wife but he can provide food shelter and clothing, it's not like they're going to starve cos he hasn't got a job. So Idon't understand the "has to have a job to provide" argument :hmm: I know state benefits won't provide a life of luxury but enough to survive on till he gets a job.

Maybe you can explain, why in England, does a man need to have a job to marry when there's state benefits that take care of rent, food, and other costs? The only reason I can think of is, "it won't be a comfortable easy life on benefits where we can fill our bellies as much as we want" I can't think of any other reason of why.

I mean I have friends who are non practising and had relationships with girls then when they became practising they quickly got married because they realized they were sinning, they didn't withhold themselve from marriage because they didn't have a job, they got married and lived off benefits, the women they married understand that jobs are hard to come by atm, and there's no choice but to live off benefits until the husband lands that dream job if it ever comes.

So again, there are people providing for their wife's and family without jobs, because of state benefits, that come from the taxes that their fathers paid when they were working. If we were living somewhere that had no system to support people without jobs such then I would say fair enough you're right, but that's not the case here, the government provides financial support for anyone out of work so it's not like his family will starve cos he doesn't have a job. And there's times when married men lose their jobs, they get made redundant and they no longer have an income so they get paid benefits and use that money to support their wife, and they do that for months until they get another job, you see where I'm coming from yeh?? You know my uncle, he was working when he got married but after marriage he lost his job, for the last year he's supported his family off benefits so it is possible.

[Salahudeen]

How about divorced sisters, widows with children, older sisters or those sisters who aren't beautiful?

Now replace the word "sisters" with brothers and see for whom it's harder to get married.

All that you mentioned equally applies to men also, divorced brothers find it harder than single brothers, men who's wifes died and left them with kids find it harder then single men with no kids, older men also find it harder than younger men, men who aren't so good looking find it harder also, everything you mentioned applies to both genders not just women. I know a brother online who's wife died and he has 3 kids, he's finding it really hard, I know a brother who is divorced and he can't find another divorced woman to marry so he's finding it hard also, I know a brother who left marriage late and he's 37 and never been married, he's finding it hard also, do you see my point? everything you mentioned applies to both men and women.

[GuestFellow]

I think it can be hard for both men and women to get married. :) I prefer my own company...and pillows.

[Pure Purple]

What's your biggest frustration / fear in getting married , the reason why you haven't gotten married so far?

Because I cannot live without my parents my siblings.
And biggest frustration is that I will loose freedom.
I mean Wherever I have to go ,I want to meat my parents I have to take permission to first my husband and then husband will think about that.Than he will go to his mother.Then she will think And nod his head with way that ..
many of my friend are married . None of them Told me that they are more happy in their married life than Unmarried .NONE OF THEM.
Irrespective of that that they have lavish life style,loving husband..financially more stable..
What girls have to make everyone happy.Make tasty food..For all of them..In response what they get nothing..She has to scarifies her herself.
(sorry for my bad english.:D)
I bet if you take vote I **** sure none of the girls will tell you that she is more happy than unmarried life..

[Souljette]

Asalamualaykum,
Wow alott of responses and frustrations but you know just wanting to marry is not enough, we have to continously ask Allah to get us married to a righteous person who He thinks is best for us. Many brothers think that sisters are looking for wealth and what not, that might be the case but most of the time practicing sisters are not actually looking for that it is mainly the family.. also a brother who has wealth, degree but his deen is shaky is a problem. The beliefs have to match, I do want to get married and i'm not looking for a guy to be a doctor, or having a degree or being rich but my family is lookin for that. I let them know that he doesn't necessarily have to be a doctor or anything if his deen is intact if he is practicing, if he is hardworking and sincere, if he reads the Quran and Sunnah and obeys ..his actions speak for him but it is also hard to find brothers like that.. In conclusion, Allah knows best the time and the person we will get married to. It does get hard being patient at a time, it does.. both brothers and sisters who are strivin in the path of Allah is hard to find nowadays ..May ALlah give us what is best for us Ameen

[Souljette]

Asalamualaykum,
post removed due to double post

[aadil77]

. Btw in England we have state benefits so I don't see how it's possible for a man to not be able to provide for his wife??

Sure he can't provide the lifestyle of a queen for his wife but he can provide food shelter and clothing, it's not like they're going to starve cos he hasn't got a job. So Idon't understand the "has to have a job to provide" argument :hmm: I know state benefits won't provide a life of luxury but enough to survive on till he gets a job.

Maybe you can explain, why in England, does a man need to have a job to marry when there's state benefits that take care of rent, food, and other costs? The only reason I can think of is, "it won't be a comfortable easy life on benefits where we can fill our bellies as much as we want" I can't think of any other reason of why.

I mean I have friends who are non practising and had relationships with girls then when they became practising they quickly got married because they realized they were sinning, they didn't withhold themselve from marriage because they didn't have a job, they got married and lived off benefits, the women they married understand that jobs are hard to come by atm, and there's no choice but to live off benefits until the husband lands that dream job if it ever comes.

So again, there are people providing for their wife's and family without jobs, because of state benefits, that come from the taxes that their fathers paid when they were working. If we were living somewhere that had no system to support people without jobs such then I would say fair enough you're right, but that's not the case here, the government provides financial support for anyone out of work so it's not like his family will starve cos he doesn't have a job. And there's times when married men lose their jobs, they get made redundant and they no longer have an income so they get paid benefits and use that money to support their wife, and they do that for months until they get another job, you see where I'm coming from yeh?? You know my uncle, he was working when he got married but after marriage he lost his job, for the last year he's supported his family off benefits so it is possible.

Living off benefits is down to your own ethics and the ethics of your wife-to-be's family - they might not see it as a respectable way of earning a living. Personally if I had daughters I wouldn't marry them off to men depending on state benefits. But it is possible if you show commitment that you're working hard to find work.

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

As'Salaam Alaaykum

I never stated you should not study. I meant that if you want to get married, these may well be a few options..like i said many will not agree..and im no expert.

But what if there's no jobs around?? And the few jobs that are around require qualifications? You said he should not study and just get a job, well when I was 16 for two straight years I tried to get a job before I decided to go into uni, everywhere I went they wanted qualifications or experience, so it's not as easy as, get a job and get married or study and just be patient.

Actually there was a time when marriage was easier than sin, when marriage was simple and not over complicated with 50k weddings and women were content with a roof over their head and would stand by their man through thick and thin, even if they had to live off simple food such as dates cos there was no other food, you know my grand ma, may Allah reward her with Jannah ameen, when my grand dad was poor in Pakistan they would live off 1 chapati a day, and she knew he was poor before she married him but her parents saw good qualities in him so they gave her hand to him, and she stuck by him, I guess the women of the past are not like the women of today. And in being fair the men of today are not like the men of the past.
I guess my experiences can be summarized with the following, women want a man who has taqwa and treats them like the prophet (saw) and follows sunnah but when they have to make sacrifices to have such a man, such as living a life that is not so luxurious, then they scrap all that and it's the guy with the most money and offers the best quality of life.
And this is the feedback I've been getting from other brothers also but not all women are like this, I actually know few brothers who found good women, they didn't have jobs when the women married them, and they lived off state benefits for quite a long period after marriage till the brothers found jobs, but the women were sincere in their seeking a brother who is righteous so they didn't mind. Btw in England we have state benefits so I don't see how it's possible for a man to not be able to provide for his wife??
Sure he can't provide the lifestyle of a queen for his wife but he can provide food shelter and clothing, it's not like they're going to starve cos he hasn't got a job. So Idon't understand the "has to have a job to provide" argument I know state benefits won't provide a life of luxury but enough to survive on till he gets a job.

There was indeed a time, and there still is a time..where you can find a women who doesnt care about money and all and men who dont either..though it may be rare.

Im not looking nor i do believe any sis i know is look for for a 50k wedding or to be treated like a complete 'Queen' meaning all rich and what not, this is ridiculous. Its just that this is the west or the change of mindsets or love for dunya, Allaah knows, so many dont understand this, its called living a 'simple' life which is a perfect life. The 'has to have a job to provide' argument is something essential in today's world, i dont think any parent will let their daughter marry someone who is jobless. There will be some criteria's you will have to meet whether you like it or not. Ofcourse deen is a priority, but i think these are 2 things that seem to be important today.

If state benefits means you will be aiming to find a job soon enough and not live on benefits your whole life then so be it..This life is short, no need of luxury, simple life is luxurious enough alhamdulilaah.

I hope that Allaah grant you a pious wife who meets your needs Aameen

I apologise if ive said anything wrong, correct me if so.

Asalamualaykum,
Wow alott of responses and frustrations but you know just wanting to marry is not enough, we have to continously ask Allah to get us married to a righteous person who He thinks is best for us. Many brothers think that sisters are looking for wealth and what not, that might be the case but most of the time practicing sisters are not actually looking for that it is mainly the family.. also a brother who has wealth, degree but his deen is shaky is a problem. The beliefs have to match, I do want to get married and i'm not looking for a guy to be a doctor, or having a degree or being rich but my family is lookin for that. I let them know that he doesn't necessarily have to be a doctor or anything if his deen is intact if he is practicing, if he is hardworking and sincere, if he reads the Quran and Sunnah and obeys ..his actions speak for him but it is also hard to find brothers like that.. In conclusion, Allah knows best the time and the person we will get married to. It does get hard being patient at a time, it does.. both brothers and sisters who are strivin in the path of Allah is hard to find nowadays ..May ALlah give us what is best for us Ameen

Wa Alaaykum As'Salaam

I agree.. Aameen to the du'aa..may Allaah grant you a pious husband Aameen.

[jimbo123]

Because I cannot live without my parents my siblings.
And biggest frustration is that I will loose freedom.
I mean Wherever I have to go ,I want to meat my parents I have to take permission to first my husband and then husband will think about that.Than he will go to his mother.Then she will think And nod his head with way that ..
many of my friend are married . None of them Told me that they are more happy in their married life than Unmarried .NONE OF THEM.
Irrespective of that that they have lavish life style,loving husband..financially more stable..
What girls have to make everyone happy.Make tasty food..For all of them..In response what they get nothing..She has to scarifies her herself.
(sorry for my bad english.:D)
I bet if you take vote I **** sure none of the girls will tell you that she is more happy than unmarried life..

This is not always true. My sister in law lives with us and she is very practising and has a lot of freedom. When she goes to visit her family or goes shopping she tells my parents. Not to ask for permission but just to say where she is going. She's never been forbidden to go anywhere and she's always reasonable. She's said herself and she not the lying type that she has the best mother in law one could ask for.

[noorseeker]

she has the best mother in law one could ask for.

Thats bein bias bro;D

The main frustration i guess is We are not following Islam properly, other wise things would be easy.

Finding that person you can trust and have some sort of chemistry is an important aspect for me, and someone who hates shopping;D

[Asiyah3]

and someone who hates shopping;D

Sorry, every woman loves shopping and especially buying.

But hey, you can always dream!

[noorseeker]

Sorry, every woman loves shopping and especially buying.

But hey, you can always dream!

I like recieving ;D

[SFatima]

The women in my family are just as worse. I don't blame the Pakistanis in Pakistan as such, because the girls and families here are pretty bad too. It's the women in my culture, both in Pakistan and abroad, weddings can never be simple. For some inexplicable reason they've created a system where you have to try and outdo all previous weddings in terms of extravagance.

The men try to speak out and explain why this is not good, but their wives accuse them of being like Scrooge or very stingy.

It sounds sexist, but it's the truth, the women are the selfish money wasters and the men just go along to avoid weeks and possibly months even years of headaches about how awful their wedding is.

I can understand why many brothers are put off marriage.

You're right about the observation, but why blame women so much when men end up choosing the same kind of women as their life partners, over and over again? Like you have mentioned about yourself as well. It takes some strength to choose to be upright and it takes courage to stand up for what you believe in, I completely refuse to attend, participate and celebrate in such extravagant lavish display of wealth, and i have made it clear to my parents that there will be no such nonsense on my wedding. ( And thats another story that most families also don't look forward to form a relationship with ours, because of these things, they're all like " na jee, we love our son, we want to celebrate, and we want people who want to celebrate, hence celebration , wealth and 'equality' in status and way of life' is their criteria for marrying off their sons and daughters).

If one seeks a practising muslimah, one has to try to be a practising muslim oneself. You'll hardly find cultural and traditional people having the courage to say no to social norms( no matter how absurd) it is only the practising religious people who try to stay away from such vain expenses , along with some sensible educated people who can see the whole " superficial show of wealth" behind all this culturalism. Women indulge in these things more so when they see more men opting to marry women who dress up all nice, wear all that amazing jewellery and exhibit their beauties.

Men have a large part in this too, women compete to please men, whether its for marriage or to just establish their social position in the society. Go ask any aunti, even the most religious of men with beards have a demand of a girl who is " absolutely beautiful, dresses up nice, looks a super model, is super thin and White : p, if they opted for simple looking nice girls who were not as competitively dolled up like their other counterparts, most women would be fine just the way they looked. And , hence not spend so much on show off.

I am not absolving women of their part but i strongly feel that women are very flexible and adapt to the social trends BEcause they see their men inclined heavily towards them too. If a man is religious, his wife will also try to please him by following the religion, if he isn't, she will try as much as she can, to be the social butterfly and the eye candy that he wants her to be seen as, socially.

[ardianto]

It is difficult for brothers to marry if they are ugly, no?

Many people who regard themselves ugly actualy are not ugly, even some of them are actually handsome or beautiful.

When I was teenager I always regard myself as an ugly person, because girls always mocked me as "the fatty". It made me had low confidence and bad inferior feeling. Sometime I told my friends I will not marry in the future because no woman would accept an ugly person like me.

But sometime my friends told me, I am absolutely not ugly, just fat, and I never care on my appearance. Later in last of my teenage period, when I was in the last year in high school, I began to do diet to reduce my weight, and improved my appearance. I learned how to dressed well. I learned about body care, such cleanliness and set my hair. I learned about etiquette. And the most important was, I tried to convince myself if I am not ugly. I got many help to learn these from my brother, my sisters, my auntie, also my friends.

The result was not bad. Like I have written in another thread, my problem in love matter was not 'how to get a girl', but 'how to avoid those girls'. Frankly, I was surprised when girls tried to approach me. But Alhamdulillah, I didn't tempted to seize this opportunity. And this is the proof, an ugly guy could be attractive guy if he could improve himself.

Okay, now about question, is it difficult for brothers to marry if they are ugly ?. The answer, if they still regard themselves as ugly people they will never marry because they don't have confidence to propose marriage. But if they realized, actually they are equal with many people, inshaAllah they will marry, because they have confidence to propose marriage to a woman.

People say women are attracted to handsomeness. That's true, but only immature women who then impresed by handsomeness and regard handsomeness as everything. Mature women attracted to handsomeness only in one moment, in the next moment they begin to notice character and personality. And when mature women meet men who not physically handsome they will directly notice to character and personality.

For mature women, the man's main attraction is character & personality, not handsomeness. That's why in page 6 I threw a question "Is physical beauty the only attraction for woman and for man ?".

So, brothers. You don't need to worry to looking for a wife even if you are not physicaly handsome.

And let me give advices for brothers who still regard themselves as ugly person.

Stop regard yourself as ugly guy, and start to realize you are equal with many other people. If you believe you are ugly, you will look ugly, but if you realize you are not ugly, you will look better. What you believe inside will reflected outside. Look at the mirror and compare what you see when you are in bad mood and when you are in good mood.

Don't underestimate yourself. Always believe you are worthy to live among the people and you are worthy to have a life-partner.

Improve your appearance. Always dressed clean and neatly. You don't need to buy expensive clothes, cheap clothes are enough as long as matched to you. People will respect those who care to appearance better than those who don't care to appearance.

And the most important is, have good manner and etiquette. It will makes you have impressive character and personality. Remember, mature woman are impressed to character and personality, not handsomeness.

[Salahudeen]

As'Salaam Alaaykum

I never stated you should not study. I meant that if you want to get married, these may well be a few options..like i said many will not agree..and im no expert.






There was indeed a time, and there still is a time..where you can find a women who doesnt care about money and all and men who dont either..though it may be rare.

Im not looking nor i do believe any sis i know is look for for a 50k wedding or to be treated like a complete 'Queen' meaning all rich and what not, this is ridiculous. Its just that this is the west or the change of mindsets or love for dunya, Allaah knows, so many dont understand this, its called living a 'simple' life which is a perfect life. The 'has to have a job to provide' argument is something essential in today's world, i dont think any parent will let their daughter marry someone who is jobless. There will be some criteria's you will have to meet whether you like it or not. Ofcourse deen is a priority, but i think these are 2 things that seem to be important today.

If state benefits means you will be aiming to find a job soon enough and not live on benefits your whole life then so be it..This life is short, no need of luxury, simple life is luxurious enough alhamdulilaah.

I hope that Allaah grant you a pious wife who meets your needs Aameen

I apologise if ive said anything wrong, correct me if so.



Wa Alaaykum As'Salaam

I agree.. Aameen to the du'aa..may Allaah grant you a pious husband Aameen.

I don't see why it's essential for him to have a job, I'd happily marry my daughter off to a pious man who is on benefits, why wouldn't you? You're searching for piety after all right? not money. And if pious guy comes who's looking for a job and is on benefits then why not, as long as he understands his benefit money has to go towards providing for his family I don't see any problem. So can you explain why a pious guy on benefits is no good?? He can still provide for his family right? so what's wrong with him?

I know what will change your mind about this, go look round and mix with the youth in schools/colleges find out what goes on in the toilets and behind the sheds in the play ground, go and look at all the muslim men fornicating with kaffira women, go and look in the school toilets and see all the muslim kids fornicating with one another, go look at how many Muslim women get pregnant outside marriage and have abortions and then come back and tell me you think it's better they do that instead of get married to a pious man and live off benefits.

I'd rather my daughter gets married to a guy on benefits than falls into zina, and many of those people who's daughters/sons who fell into zina said the same thing, "you need to marry someone with top job who can provide for you, you don't want that loser guy over there with beard who prays all day, you want a guy with a good job who can take you on holidays every year" then what happens? quite often because they delayed their childs marriage in search for the dream partner, their child falls into sin.

Go and read the advice and support section of this forum and look at all the people posting about haraam relationships they fell into, go and ask them why they fell into the haraam relationships, they'll tell you "My mum and dad didn't want me to get married till a guy with a good job came along so I had to wait and while I was waiting I fell for this other guy who I really love but I don't think my family will let me marry him because he doesn't have a good job" lol.

I mean we've made the criteria for marriage how good a job the man has, which makes me feel sick, it's not about preventing your kids from falling into sinful acts anymore, if that was the case we'd get our kids married off at 18 and tell them it's ok the live off benefits, be patient untill time gets easier, this is better for you than being single and possibly falling into zina.

nooooo now we say, you can't get married untill you have a good job so you can provide a life of luxory for your wife, and to the women we're saying, you should find a man who has a top job so he can provide a great quality of life for you.

And the poor guy with a long beard who follows the sunnah and wears his trousers above his ankles and because of this no one wants to employ him cos they think he's a terrorist is left alone wondering why no women wants to marry him.

While the clean shaven guy who's probably done all sorts and doesn't give a toss about the sunnah and goes drinking with his kafir work mates lands the bride cos her parents didnt want her to marry "a loser with a beard who prays all day long" What a twisted world we've come to live in. imsad

Living off benefits is down to your own ethics and the ethics of your wife-to-be's family - they might not see it as a respectable way of earning a living. Personally if I had daughters I wouldn't marry them off to men depending on state benefits. But it is possible if you show commitment that you're working hard to find work.

Ok well what will these families who don't see it as a respectful way of living do if unemployment continues to rise and there's no jobs for the majority of the population? In these times even non muslims are finding it hard to get jobs never mind Muslims upon sunnah so what is the solution for all those Muslim men who can't find jobs through no fault of their own? What if we reached a situation where unemployment went so high that there was only enough jobs for 40-50% of the population and the rest had to live off benefits, would Muslims stop getting married then because the requirement of "has to have a job to support" can't be met by the majority of Muslim men?

I just feel like it's no longer about protecting your children from sin it's about getting the guy who can offer the best quality of life in the duniya and if they have to risk their children falling into sin to get that then so be it, this is the feeling I get from lot of people :(

also as unemployment rates continue to rise the chances of finding that guy with the job decreases, so you may well keep your daughter sitting on the shelve untill she's 30 waiting for a pious guy with a job, I think it's better if you find a pious guy on benefits then give her hand providing you get to know him first and see what type of person he is. We have to be realistic women are sitting around till their 30s waiting for the pious guy with good job and rejecting pious men on state benefits, there has to be a compromise somewhere.

I mean even a guy on state benefits can provide a good quality of life compared to that of the sahabba (RA), right? So if women want a man like the prophet (saw) then they should be prepared to make sacrifices like the wives of the prophet (saw) and sahabba. There was periods when they would go hungry and tie stones to their stomachs, no one told them cos of this they shouldn't be married cos they can't provide for their wife.

I'd be interested, which woman today would marry a man who could offer her a little hut with out a proper bed, and the only food is dates every day? If a pious man came who was like the prophet (saw) would women today accept this? Because all of this and more can be offered on state benefits.

You see it's about how big your house is and whether you can provide her with her own kitchen and car that matters now days. If you can provide a shared kitchen and bathroom you've got no chance ;D it would be great if we we could transport them back in time to the time of the prophet (saw) then they will be grateful when they have to go into the bushes to do their business and find rocks to wipe themselves with and they have to survive on a few dates every day, and they have to sleep on a hard bed, then a guy on benefits who follows sunnah will be like a millionaire to them ;D

It's understandable that parents want an easy life for their daughters but at what cost?? is it really worth the risk of letting your child fall into sin?? making her wait till she's 30+ for the pious guy with a good job which is becoming more and more rare. Fair enough if you have the choice between two pious people, 1 with a job and the other hasn't you're obviously gonna chose the 1 with the job, but that's not the case now days, what we see now days is, guy who isn't pious with job, verses pious guy on benefits, and the guy with a job who isn't pious wins every time. Which tells me people are more concerned about this duniya than the akhira, because if they really cared about the akhira they'd pick the pious guy on benefits every time over the non pious guy.

These are just my views from what I've seen of the world, you're welcome to disagree. Living off benefits is respectful I think when you're trying to find a job, but if you're living off them cos you can't be bothered to work then it isn't. Check this article out.

"Muslims are more than twice as likely to be unemployed than the national average (16.4 per cent, compared to 7.7 per cent). (The unemployment rate among black people is even higher, at 17.9 per cent.) Worryingly, unemployment is especially high among young Muslims under the age of 30 (23 per cent), which is again higher than the UK average for young people (17 per cent), although less than for young black people (29 per cent).

The jobless rate for the least educated young Muslims - those with no qualifications - is even higher, approaching 40 per cent. One encouraging sign is that a considerably higher proportion of young Muslims under the age of 25 are students than is the case for non-Muslims (36 per cent and 19 per cent, respectively).

It is important that public policy is designed to ensure that Muslims in general, and young Muslims in particular, do not become further marginalised. Joblessness would be much higher among Muslims without the labour-market measures implemented by the Labour government. A lost generation of young Muslims would be very bad indeed, for all of us."

Full article can be found here http://www.newstatesman.com/economy/...ms-rate-labour


I really couldn't reject a pious brother on benefits because he can't get a job. Fair enough if jobs were easy to come by and there was more jobs than people, but the fact is, currently there is more people than jobs, so I don't see it as fair punishing someone because there's not enough jobs to go round. The supply is greater than the demand sadly and that isn't a person's fault, it doesn't mean he's lazy cos he's living off benefits it means there's not enough jobs to go around.

I think we need to move away from this misconception that a guy on benefits is a lazy bum who can't be bothered to work, I think this kind of mentality would only be justified if there was more jobs than people, but it's the other way round, there's more people than jobs so you're all ways going to have people on benefits through no fault of their own due to there not being enough jobs.

I recall hearing a news report last year, and they were saying even doctors who just finished studying at 26-27 were struggling to find employment in the current UK economy because the supply was greater than the demand so as a result they were claiming benefits, this is the times we live in. Even educated people in top fields can't get jobs and are claiming benefits.

So we as Muslims need to understand this and lower our standards and move with the times. We're the ummah of a man who slept on a hard bed every night, who lived off dates, who tied stones around his stomach to suppress his hunger, who wore clothes that were ripped and sewn back together, who went out into bushes to answer the call of nature and cleaned himself with rocks. So maybe we should lower our standards and be more like him instead of trying to be like the Persian emporia who slept on a nice soft bed every night and eat from many wonderful dishes and wore new clothes every day.

Sadly I think many women today would scoff at a pious man who offered them the life style that the companions offered their wifes, and would choose a non pious man who offered them the kind of life that the Persian emporia would offer. But as you know it's all been predicted in the hadith so I don't know why I'm going on this long rant, you can't beat prophecy.

Thauban reported that the messenger of Allah said: "It is near that the nations will call one another against you just as the eaters call one another to their dishes." Somebody asked: "Is this because we will be few in numbers that day?" He said: "Nay, but that day you shall be numerous, but you will be like the foam of the sea, and Allah will take the fear of you away from your enemies and will place weakness into your hearts." Somebody asked: "What is this weakness?" He said: "The love of the world and the dislike of death." (Abu Daud)

[إحسان]

Sorry, every woman loves shopping and especially buying.

But hey, you can always dream!

I must not be a woman yet - just a girl. Since I absolutely LOATHE shopping.
I like to dress prettily for myself but I don't see why some women shop nearly every month.... what's the point?

I'm still young to get married - I'm 16, so going through these pages have been informative and useful for the future. :statisfie
So thank you all... I actually got a proposal at the most awkward place ever - at the bus stop when I was coming home from the library, the brother (he looked Iraqi, around his mid 20s) mistook me as a Uni student. :embarrass

Anyway I wish you all the best in getting married! My two older sisters are also looking to get married, 24, 27 respectively, inshAllah they'll get married to a pious and sweet man, but I'll cry so much when they leave the family home. :cry:

May Allah grant all the Muslims in this world his/her perfect match and if not in this world then in Al Firdaws which I am beging Allah to have mercy on us and make us enter it without being reckoning...Ameeeeeeeeen

Ameen!

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

As'Salaam Alaaykum

I don't see why it's essential for him to have a job, I'd happily marry my daughter off to a pious man who is on benefits, why wouldn't you? You're searching for piety after all right? not money. And if pious guy comes who's looking for a job and is on benefits then why not, as long as he understands his benefit money has to go towards providing for his family I don't see any problem.

To be honest, Im not even speaking for myself, its the requirements some parents have these days. I think everyone is searching for pious spouse. I would definetly have my daughter married of to someone pious and who is also financially stable, where she has a roof over her head atleast. A pious indivudal also has responsibilites.

The deen is what is to be made priority. I dont have an issue with a man who lived on benefits, so long as thats not a whole life routine, meaning Islamically man is provider, where is he providing if its always? I hope im not coming across as a negative.

I know what will change your mind about this, go look round and mix with the youth in schools/colleges find out what goes on in the toilets and behind the sheds in the play ground, go and look at all the muslim men fornicating with kaffira women, go and look in the school toilets and see all the muslim kids fornicating with one another, go look at how many Muslim women get pregnant outside marriage and have abortions and then come back and tell me you think it's better they do that instead of get married to a pious man and live off benefits.

I dont need to do that, because i never said living on benefits is a bad thing..as i mentioned above. And please cut down on the generalisation dear brother, there are brothers and sisters out there who are not married and are on the safe side i.e looking to get married etc etc, so not everyone is like how you mentioned in the quote.

jazakallaahu Khaayr.

I'd rather my daughter gets married to a guy on benefits than falls into zina, and many of those people who's daughters/sons who fell into zina said the same thing, "you need to marry someone with top job who can provide for you, you don't want that loser guy over there with beard who prays all day, you want a guy with a good job who can take you on holidays every year" then what happens? quite often because they delayed their childs marriage in search for the dream partner, their child falls into sin.

yes i agree. But as long as its not forever. I didnt mention anything such as 'top' job did i? If i did, its because thats some parents requirements. There will be people who will never accept you, same way you wont accept them for reasons. may Allaah guide the ummah and keep them on the straight path, Aameen.

Go and read the advice and support section of this forum and look at all the people posting about haraam relationships they fell into, go and ask them why they fell into the haraam relationships, they'll tell you "My mum and dad didn't want me to get married till a guy with a good job came along so I had to wait and while I was waiting I fell for this other guy who I really love but I don't think my family will let me marry him because he doesn't have a good job" lol.

Im fully aware of this. jazakallaahu Khaayr. Im saying this on behalf of parents, generally the parents i've come across want a man who has a job. But if you could explain this issue to any sister's parents, that you will be on benefits, and then explaining getting a job later, do you think anyone will accept you? If so that is good and I hope it goes well for you insha'Allaah.

I mean we've made the criteria for marriage how good a job the man has, which makes me feel sick, it's not about preventing your kids from falling into sinful acts anymore, if that was the case we'd get our kids married off at 18 and tell them it's ok the live off benefits, be patient untill time gets easier, this is better for you than being single and possibly falling into zina.

I dont know who this 'we' is..definetly not me included.

And the poor guy with a long beard who follows the sunnah and wears his trousers above his ankles and because of this no one wants to employ him cos they think he's a terrorist is left alone wondering why no women wants to marry him.

Because its wrong, and people need to be educated. Allaah place millions of humans on this earth, not all are un-educated.

I'd be interested, which woman today would marry a man who could offer her a little hut with out a proper bed, and the only food is dates every day? If a pious man came who was like the prophet (saw) would women today accept this?

inshaa'Allaah! One should be thankful he has a roof over his head and something to eat. You'd be suprised to know there are sisters as such.

[Banu_Hashim]

My time has not yet come to get married. Although I have a degree, I have to secure my career, get a good job first.

Bro! You already have a degree and a job?? What are you waiting for? If I were you I'd be looking to get married ASAP! Don't worry about career progression, you'll be doing that for the rest of your life inshaAllaah! Marriage will help you focus and give you some peace in your life inshaAllaah wa Allaahu 'Alam.

['Abd Al-Maajid]

Bro! You already have a degree and a job?? What are you waiting for? If I were you I'd be looking to get married ASAP! Don't worry about career progression, you'll be doing that for the rest of your life inshaAllaah! Marriage will help you focus and give you some peace in your life inshaAllaah wa Allaahu 'Alam.

Man, career progression! You got me! I have a job now, but i am looking to secure my career first, and get a good job with higher pay. Man's desires are never-ending... :p I can get married in a couple of months...it's just i am making things harder for myself...imsad

[Banu_Hashim]

Does this mean, we just carry on with our lives and hope someone sends us a proposal .

Lol, if you're a guy you're not gonna get far with that approach. Even if you have a good job, are pious, you still have to put yourself out there... somehow. Word of mouth is the best option in my opinion. Try your best and then put your trust in Allaah.

[Banu_Hashim]

I'm still young to get married - I'm 16, so going through these pages have been informative and useful for the future. :statisfie
So thank you all... I actually got a proposal at the most awkward place ever - at the bus stop when I was coming home from the library, the brother (he looked Iraqi, around his mid 20s) mistook me as a Uni student. :embarrass

You should have said "Uhhh.. no thanks! But I have a sister! In fact two of them... take your pick!" :)

[Salahudeen]

As'Salaam Alaaykum



To be honest, Im not even speaking for myself, its the requirements some parents have these days. I think everyone is searching for pious spouse. I would definetly have my daughter married of to someone pious and who is also financially stable, where she has a roof over her head atleast. A pious indivudal also has responsibilites.

The deen is what is to be made priority. I dont have an issue with a man who lived on benefits, so long as thats not a whole life routine, meaning Islamically man is provider, where is he providing if its always? I hope im not coming across as a negative.

I know you're not speaking for yourself, If you think everyone is searching for a pious spouse then you need to wake up and come out of your bubble, you see not everyone is searching for a pious spouse, when you reject the pious guy on benefits who can offer a standard quality of life and choose the non pious guy with a job who can offer a great quality of life, is that searching for a pious spouse? I think not.

Financially stable can be offered on benefits didn't you know that?? I don't get your point, all what you mentioned can be offered by a man on benefits regardless if he as a job or not. He is providing through the money he gets from his benefits, that's how he is providing. A man can even provide a roof over his wifes head on benefits did you not know that?? It's called "Housing benefit". He can provide food in the cupboards also on benefits, it's called JSA, I did a two week shop on JSA and filled the cupboards with food and had £10 left over, of course you won't be able to have life of luxury and have internet/sky TV/ call pakistan on weekends but you can have an ok life. Ok, you see that money that he gets from benefits, that is his money, that he has been given, now he can do whatever he wants with it, he can go out and gamble it all away if he wants, OR he can choose to provide for his family with it, if he provides for his family with it then he is doing his islamic duty right? which is to provide for his family.

Again why do you insist that a man needs a job to provide for his family in England after all of the above? Can you explain please? You said a man needs a job to provide so why does he need a job when we have a system in place that takes care of the needs of people who are unable to find work? I think perhaps you never knew about the benefit system in England thats why? You thought unless a man has a job he has no income at all correct?

I dont need to do that, because i never said living on benefits is a bad thing..as i mentioned above. And please cut down on the generalisation dear brother, there are brothers and sisters out there who are not married and are on the safe side i.e looking to get married etc etc, so not everyone is like how you mentioned in the quote.

jazakallaahu Khaayr.

You're missing the point, I will have to explain I think :hmm: what I mentioned is nothing about living on benefits, it was about preventing sin which happens amongst the youth due to them not being able to get married they do that stuff cos they have no halal outlet for their desires, what is better a person goes around fornicating cos he can't get married or he gets married and doesn't fornicate?? obviously the second option so if we made marriage easier then there would be less sin. That was the point I was making, please if you don't understand the point then ask for clarification instead of talking about something completely random.

sure not all youth are doing what I mentioned but go see what the majority of youth are doing in colleges and night clubs and then come back and tell me you think it's good idea to prevent them from marriage, they're not in the masjids praying, they're out chasing girls and fornicating in the clubs surely you can't be naive of this?? Do you think the majority of youth are in masjids offering their salah and studying to be 'alims? lol and because of this, the point I was making is that we should not make marriage so complicated for young people to the point they fall into sin, a man can offer an adequate life on benefits and it will protect them both from sin. Which is much better right?

Yes there is a few who managed to keep them self safe but how many do you think they are?? not everyone is a good as you, you know. Let me put to you in this way maybe you'll understand better, men often say "Forget getting married in this country all the girls have been used all ready and had boyfriends they're not even virgins any more, we'll go back to Pakistan and find a girl who's remained pure" they say this because it's impossible to find a girl who hasn't been in some type of relationship. You may get the odd few good girls who remained chaste through out their life but not many. Therefore if we stopped being so fussy with out daughters we would reduce the haraam that goes on. That's what I was trying to get across.

yes i agree. But as long as its not forever. I didnt mention anything such as 'top' job did i? If i did, its because thats some parents requirements. There will be people who will never accept you, same way you wont accept them for reasons. may Allaah guide the ummah and keep them on the straight path, Aameen.

Well if a person is looking for a job and trying to find one then it won't be forever will it?? You didn't mention top job but you said he must have a job to be able to provide and I asked you to explain why he needs a job to provide when he can provide on benefits can't he?? Yes some parents make that requirement that he has to have a job when unemployment continues to arise especially among Muslim youth so aren't they seeking a partner for their child who can offer the best quality of life in the duniya regardless if he's pious or not?? What if they have a choice between a pious person on benefits and a non pious person working what do you think they'll choose? What would your parents choose? A pious guy on benefits who's trying to get a job but has no degree or a guy with a good job and high salary but he isn't pious?? If you're parents would choose the pious guy on benefits over the guy with a degree and job then I'd say mashaAllah and would be happy that there is some parents who care about their children's akhira more so than their duniya.

Yes but the reason for not accepting a person shows a lot about character, if you reject a person with good deen because he won't be able to provide your daughter with the life of a queen, due to him being on benefits he can only provide a standard life style then what does that say? what are you looking for? Are you looking for piety or money?

Im fully aware of this. jazakallaahu Khaayr. Im saying this on behalf of parents, generally the parents i've come across want a man who has a job. But if you could explain this issue to any sister's parents, that you will be on benefits, and then explaining getting a job later, do you think anyone will accept you? If so that is good and I hope it goes well for you insha'Allaah.

You're missing the point, what is the consequence very often of parents delaying their childs marriage? their child falls into sin right not all the time but most of the time? so isn't it better they get their child married off to a pious person ASAP rather than have their kids wait around for that dream guy who's pious with a job? No I don't think they will accept and this is precisely my point that it's wrong because their creating an environment for their child where they're likely to fall into sin. Do you not see that?

I dont know who this 'we' is..definetly not me included.

I didn't say you were included in it, it was a general statement about what I feel the majority of Muslim parents are thinking about which is not making sure they prevent their child from sin by facilitating marriage for their child ASAP rather making their child wait and creating an environment of fitna for them as a result. I'm sure you've got friends who fell into haraam relationships right? do you think if their parents got them married ASAP then they still would've fall into the same haraam relationships? I don't think so because marriage protects you from zina.

Because its wrong, and people need to be educated. Allaah place millions of humans on this earth, not all are un-educated.

Yes it is wrong but it exists because people have the mentality that I will choose the person with a good job and degree for my daughter/son rather than choosing the pious person.

inshaa'Allaah! One should be thankful he has a roof over his head and something to eat. You'd be suprised to know there are sisters as such.[/COLO

I'd love to meet them because from my personal experiences they are rare, which shows the general condition of the ummah atm.

I don't know perhaps I'm an idealistic person and expecting too much from this ummah when quite frankly we're no where near perfect.

[jimbo123]

Again why do you insist that a man needs a job to provide for his family in England after all of the above? Can you explain please? You said a man needs a job to provide so why does he need a job when we have a system in place that takes care of the needs of people who are unable to find work? I think perhaps you never knew about the benefit system in England thats why? You thought unless a man has a job he has no income at all correct?

I remember reading a hadith that said a believer who earns his own bread is better than a believer who doesn't. I've spent about half an hour trying to find where I read this hadith but cannot locate it, is anyone else familiar with this it?

[Salahudeen]

I remember reading a hadith that said a believer who earns his own bread is better than a believer who doesn't. I've spent about half an hour trying to find where I read this hadith but cannot locate it, is anyone else familiar with this it?

Very good I agree, what if there is no opportunities for a believer to earn his bread though? So he's forced to rely upon the government benefits that come from taxes that his family members pay in order to provide such a system of support for people out of work.

[Banu_Hashim]

But akhi Salahudeen, how can you claim to be pious and rely on benefits? It is a sunnah of the prophets to have a trade and excel in that trade to the point where you are the best in your field. A lot of prophets were sheep herders, rasoolAllah (sallalAllahu 'alayhi wa sallam) himself was a sheep herder as well as a successful businessman in his early life. Imam Abu Haneefah (raheemahullah) was a renowned clothes merchant. Shaykh Al-Albaani was a highly skilled watch repair man. So whether that skill is in business, medicine, law, pharmacy, engineering you need to have a skill whereby you can earn money. When you spend on your family on top of the basic necessities like jewellery for your wife and gifts for your children it is a reward-able act. We need ihsaan in deen and dunya.

To settle for benefits and claim to be 'pious' is not an excuse.

[Salahudeen]

But akhi Salahudeen, how can you claim to be pious and rely on benefits? It is a sunnah of the prophets to have a trade and excel in that trade to the point where you are the best in your field. A lot of prophets were sheep herders, rasoolAllah (sallalAllahu 'alayhi wa sallam) himself was a sheep herder as well as a successful businessman in his early life. Imam Abu Haneefah (raheemahullah) was a renowned clothes merchant. Shaykh Al-Albaani was a highly skilled watch repair man. So whether that skill is in business, medicine, law, pharmacy, engineering you need to have a skill whereby you can earn money. When you spend on your family on top of the basic necessities like jewellery for your wife and gifts for your children it is a reward-able act. We need ihsaan in deen and dunya.

To settle for benefits and claim to be 'pious' is not an excuse.

Well I know plenty of people who have skills, some are doctors, others are computer engineers, others are accountants, but the problem is that there is no demand for those skills, so once they acquire those skills they search for jobs to utilize those skills and there isn't many jobs out there. So what do you propose we do with all these skillfull people who aren't able to utilize the skills they've learned through education because there's no jobs for them?

I'll try find the new report for you about graduate doctors who can't find jobs because there's no jobs for them. Also can a person who is pious not claim benefits and support his family with that? I know an imam who claims benefits to pay the rent on the house he lives in with his family does that mean he's not pious?

Your idea that a person who claims benefits can't be pious is strange I think.

[jimbo123]

Thats bein bias bro;D

Lol sorry I'm trying to be objective as I can. I've seen a lot of mothers (even practising ones) that blatantly mistreat their daughter-in-laws and I have not seen my mother do that. I haven't even seen them argue once!

With regards to whether or not it's harder for guys or girls, it's definitely hard for both but in different ways!

Like someone said earlier, a man wants to get married (or have a girlfriend whatever) from the age of 13 and suppresses it until the age of around 25 when he finishes his education and begins work. That desire to marry is so strong and there's all kind of temptations calling to you so yeah it is very difficult for guys to suppress that. The only thing more difficult to suppress is hunger for food! Do women have that same desire? It's said that men have 1 part desire and women have the other 9 but Allah coupled that desire with shyness.

For a woman it's completely different. I'm sure things were different around the time of the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) but... and I'm going to be as PC as I can saying this but now guys mainly want someone who is good looking, that is at the top of the list. Social status and wealth isn't really an issue anymore I don't think. So if a woman isn't very good looking, it could be a challenge for her to get married. In this sense for a guy it is different. He can grow some muscles and a beard, groom himself nicely and dress well. Even if a guy isn't handsome, if he has wealth there will still be lots of options for him.

I heard this scholar say on TV Islam solves this problem by allowing a man to marry 4 times. Some women would rather be the 4th wife of a really great person than to not be married at all.

[Banu_Hashim]

Well I know plenty of people who have skills, some are doctors, others are computer engineers, others are accountants, but the problem is that there is no demand for those skills, so once they acquire those skills they search for jobs to utilize those skills and there isn't many jobs out there. So what do you propose we do with all these skillfull people who aren't able to utilize the skills they've learned through education because there's no jobs for them?

I'll try find the new report for you about graduate doctors who can't find jobs because there's no jobs for them. Also can a person who is pious not claim benefits and support his family with that? I know an imam who claims benefits to pay the rent on the house he lives in with his family does that mean he's not pious?

I can imagine that the competition for training posts for junior doctors is increasing but I don't think you will find a lot of doctors out of work. And they are certainly not foot-to-mouth or poor. Oh and I disagree that there is absolutely no demand for those jobs you mentioned. The competition is increasing in this climate of course which means as Muslims we need to be ahead in the game compared to our non-Muslim counter parts. If the imaam is serving the community full time then that is his job and inshaAllaah he is pious wa Allaahu 'Alam.

[Salahudeen]

I couldn't find the news report about graduate doctors but I found another article that details the fact that it's not about what skills you have when there's no jobs out there, skills are useless.

Graduates warned of record 70 applicants for every job
Class of 2010 told to consider flipping burgers or shelf stacking to build skills as they also compete with last year's graduates

Graduates are facing the most intense scramble in a decade to get a job this summer, as a poll of employers reveals the number of applications for each vacancy has surged to nearly 70 while the number of available positions is predicted to fall by nearly 7%.

The class of 2010 have been told to consider flipping burgers or stacking shelves when they leave university as leading firms in investment banking, law and IT are due to cut graduate jobs this year.

Competition in the jobs market is fiercer now than for the first "post-crunch" generation of students, last year, when there were 48 applications for each vacancy.

The number of applicants chasing each job is so high that nearly 78% of employers are insisting on a 2.1 degree, rendering a 2.2 marginal and effectively ruling out any graduates with a third, according to the survey published tomorrow.

The Association of Graduate Recruiters polled over 200 firms including Cadbury, Marks & Spencer, JP Morgan and Vodafone and found the number of applications per vacancy had risen to 68.8 this year, the highest figure recorded. In the most hotly contested sector – makers of fast-moving consumer goods such as food, confectionery and cosmetics – there were 205 applications for each job.

here's the link for you http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/...her-jobs-fight

so you can see it's not about whether you have an employable skill, the fact is that the rate of unemployment is going up because there's no jobs, I mentioned earlier, people who are claiming benefits in todays world aren't people who are lazy and can't be bothered to study, it's people who have degree's and are finding after graduation that there's no jobs out there, also look at all the government cuts which have contributed to an even higher unemployment rate, on top of that, the unemployment amongst Muslims is higher than non Muslim counter parts. Which suggests Muslims find it harder to get jobs.

I'm not advocating that a person sits at home on benefits and gives up on working, I'm not saying that incase you got that impression, I'm saying unemployment rates are rising and if things don't get better then sooner or later there's going to be a whole bunch of us skill full people out of work and are we going to give up on marriage because there's not enough jobs for the entire population?

[noorseeker]

If i had to live off benefits, i would take it grudgingly , Im a man, i have that thing inside me not to ask for a hand out.

Max i take from mum is £1 ;D

But on the other side ive paid enough national insurance for me to get benefits and not feel guilty , as ive paid into the system,

Thats how it is in uk. im paying taxes , so the guy down da rd can get same amount of money i earn. get his rent payed, wake up at 10 and watch Jeremy kyle show;D
while rest of us are graftin away

I can say no fairnes in that.

Theres a lot of religious guys that dont wana work.

[ardianto]

And the poor guy with a long beard who follows the sunnah and wears his trousers above his ankles and because of this no one wants to employ him cos they think he's a terrorist is left alone wondering why no women wants to marry him.

While the clean shaven guy who's probably done all sorts and doesn't give a toss about the sunnah and goes drinking with his kafir work mates lands the bride cos her parents didnt want her to marry "a loser with a beard who prays all day long" What a twisted world we've come to live in.

I know some brothers with long beard who follow sunnah and wear their trouser above the ankles, and they have been married. What they do to make money for their families is trading. They don't sell their own goods because they didn't have enough capital, but they sell someone else goods that entrusted to them, same like what Rasulullah (saw) had done.

They were poor but they could find women who wanted to marry them. They had no degree and didn't have money to start a business, but they could find traders who trust their goods to them. How could these happened ?. Allah opened the ways for those pious brothers.

[Banu_Hashim]

I appreciate that brother, but it just means you will have to strive that bit harder. But why are unemployment rates higher amongst Muslims? Wallahi this is something as a community we need to turn around. I have seen it first hand people studying for a vocational career have got those jobs alhamdulillah because they were very hard working. For the generation approaching the marrying age, it's not gonna be easy but I think going out and doing something about it is better than complaining about it.

What I'm saying is, if the worst comes to worse and you have to recieve benefit packages to survive then take it, but don't be content with it; look to earn your own living, always. As Muslims (especially in the west) we shouldn't be content with receiving charity, we always be on the upper hand, as Islam is always dominant and superior.

Fee Amaanillah.

[Salahudeen]

I can imagine that the competition for training posts for junior doctors is increasing but I don't think you will find a lot of doctors out of work. And they are certainly not foot-to-mouth or poor. Oh and I disagree that there is absolutely no demand for those jobs you mentioned. The competition is increasing in this climate of course which means as Muslims we need to be ahead in the game compared to our non-Muslim counter parts. If the imaam is serving the community full time then that is his job and inshaAllaah he is pious wa Allaahu 'Alam.

Yes he is serving the community full time and supporting his family off benefits so is that wrong? the fact he's supporting his family off benefits because he has no other income? Is it wrong for any man to support his family off benefits when he's tried to find a job and there's none out there? I mean I would understand where you're coming from if there was a job for every person in the population, but the fact is that there isn't enough jobs to go around as a result we have educated and highly skilled people in various fields claiming benefits, should we say to these people "you cant get married because it's haraam for you to support your wife off these benefits"

[Salahudeen]

I appreciate that brother, but it just means you will have to strive that bit harder. But why are unemployment rates higher amongst Muslims? Wallahi this is something as a community we need to turn around. I have seen it first hand people studying for a vocational career have got those jobs alhamdulillah because they were very hard working. For the generation approaching the marrying age, it's not gonna be easy but I think going out and doing something about it is better than complaining about it.

What I'm saying is, if the worst comes to worse and you have to recieve benefit packages to survive then take it, but don't be content with it; look to earn your own living, always. As Muslims (especially in the west) we shouldn't be content with receiving charity, we always be on the upper hand, as Islam is always dominant and superior.

Fee Amaanillah.

The bit in the bold is also what I am saying, and that we should not prevent people from getting married because their on benefits through no fault of their own. Of course working is best and earning money through a job is the best way but if things continue as they are then many people will end up on benefits and what will happen, we will stop marrying cos we don't have jobs. I don't think that is right.

[Banu_Hashim]

La akhi. You're twisting my words. It isn't haraam. See my previous post. I've added a bit. Fee Amaanillah.

[Salahudeen]

I know some brothers with long beard who follow sunnah and wear their trouser above the ankles, and they have been married. What they do to make money for their families is trading. They don't sell their own goods because they didn't have enough capital, but they sell someone else goods that entrusted to them, same like what Rasulullah (saw) had done.

They were poor but they could find women who wanted to marry them. They had no degree and didn't have money to start a business, but they could find traders who trust their goods to them. How could these happened ?. Allah opened the ways for those pious brothers.

MashaAllah may Allah bless all the practising brothers with wife's like these brothers have been blessed with ameen.

[Salahudeen]

La akhi. You're twisting my words. It isn't haraam. See my previous post. I've added a bit. Fee Amaanillah.

Akhi I know you didn't say it's haraam but the point is, people have made it into such, with the idea that a man on benefits can't get married. Which is silly because lots of men on benefits are married, they had jobs when they first got married and after marriage they lost their jobs and supported their families through benefits, but when it comes to a person who's never been married people say he has to have a job to get married, "if he's on benefits he can't get married", but if he claims benefits after marriage when he lost his job it's ok then. This is what I've seen.

I mean I understand no women wants to marry a lazy bum who sits on his backside all day and doesn't go out to work this is wrong, but there's also men who go out every day applying for jobs and attending interviews, but they still can't get jobs and it's not fair to say to these men that they can't get married because they're gonna use benefits to support their families.

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

As'Salaam Alaaykum

I know you're not speaking for yourself, If you think everyone is searching for a pious spouse then you need to wake up and come out of your bubble,you see not everyone is searching for a pious spouse, when you reject the pious guy on benefits who can offer a standard quality of life and choose the non pious guy with a job who can offer a great quality of life, is that searching for a pious spouse? I think not.

When I stated that 'everyone is searching for a pious spouse' I meant it is something which every muslim/muslimah is generally looking for someone practising i.e. someone practising, fearing Allaah.

In my previous post i mentioned something similar, as long as the man is financially stable, provide a roof over the sister, and if he is on benefits, at the same time he should be looking for a job, if the wali is fine with this and the sister doesnt object, then good.

Financially stable can be offered on benefits didn't you know that?? I don't get your point, all what you mentioned can be offered by a man on benefits regardless if he as a job or not. He is providing through the money he gets from his benefits, that's how he is providing. A man can even provide a roof over his wifes head on benefits did you not know that?? It's called "Housing benefit". He can provide food in the cupboards also on benefits, it's called JSA, I did a two week shop on JSA and filled the cupboards with food and had £10 left over, of course you won't be able to have life of luxury and have internet/sky TV/ call pakistan on weekends but you can have an ok life. Ok, you see that money that he gets from benefits, that is his money, that he has been given, now he can do whatever he wants with it, he can go out and gamble it all away if he wants, OR he can choose to provide for his family with it, if he provides for his family with it then he is doing his islamic duty right? which is to provide for his family.

I am not denying that you should'nt do benefits. If thats what you want, then thats your case. Akhi if that's what you insist on, then do so, im not objecting.

it was about preventing sin which happens amongst the youth due to them not being able to get married they do that stuff cos they have no halal outlet for their desires

I never denied the fact that something leads to sin shouldnt be prevented, in this case marriage is an option, ofcourse.

sure not all youth are doing what I mentioned but go see what the majority of youth are doing in colleges and night clubs and then come back and tell me you think it's good idea to prevent them from marriage, they're not in the masjids praying, they're out chasing girls and fornicating in the clubs surely you can't be naive of this??

Its not exactly me who's making 'getting' married difficult for people is it? It is some parents who never brought their kids upon the deen, I am aware people out there are doing such and such. so Yes, I agree, though again i never denied the solution is marriage, the matter is whether one accepts a proposal or not, also it is upto parents to teach their children about the deen.

not everyone is a good as you, you know.

Nor did i claim to be as good as anyone!

not everyone is a good as you, you know. Let me put to you in this way maybe you'll understand better, men often say "Forget getting married in this country all the girls have been used all ready and had boyfriends they're not even virgins any more, we'll go back to Pakistan and find a girl who's remained pure" they say this because it's impossible to find a girl who hasn't been in some type of relationship. You may get the odd few good girls who remained chaste through out their life but not many. Therefore if we stopped being so fussy with out daughters we would reduce the haraam that goes on. That's what I was trying to get across.

Im nobody to judge how many they are, it is only Allaah who knows whats in their hearts. I understand your point bro, I repeat im not saying people should not get married, it is a solution islam placed, how can i not accept it? To be honest I dont even know what this discussion is about anymore.

but, Jazakallaahu Khaayr

Well if a person is looking for a job and trying to find one then it won't be forever will it?? You didn't mention top job but you said he must have a job to be able to provide and I asked you to explain why he needs a job to provide when he can provide on benefits can't he??

I did'nt deny your point being on benefits being helpful either! I meant that a man is generally the provider, and if he is unable to do so for the time being, he should do what is of help for that certain amount of time, untill he can, which I think i believe is what you are saying, also myself, though it seems i've not made it clear enough, so i apologise.

Yes but the reason for not accepting a person shows a lot about character, if you reject a person with good deen because he won't be able to provide your daughter with the life of a queen, due to him being on benefits he can only provide a standard life style then what does that say? what are you looking for? Are you looking for piety or money?

Brother please re-read my posts. I mentioned if I had a daughter and wouldnt have any problem marrying her off to someone who is on deen and also has a roof over themselves. so if he had to do benefits, no problem, but he would be searching for job at the same time ofcourse then that will be their own family matter, i.e the daughter also agrees, or she may want to help in etc.

I don't think so because marriage protects you from zina.

Akhi, no doubt about that.

You're missing the point, what is the consequence very often of parents delaying their childs marriage? their child falls into sin right not all the time but most of the time? so isn't it better they get their child married off to a pious person ASAP rather than have their kids wait around for that dream guy who's pious with a job? No I don't think they will accept and this is precisely my point that it's wrong because their creating an environment for their child where they're likely to fall into sin. Do you not see that?

Yes, ofcourse its wrong. There are many different situations, where parents want child married of, but child doesnt accept, or childs wants to marry someone but parents dont accept.do you also get my point? I think we can sit and discuss this for ages, we may never even come to an end.

I believe you've made it clear in your recent post,

but there's also men who go out every day applying for jobs and attending interviews, but they still can't get jobs and it's not fair to say to these men that they can't get married because they're gonna use benefits to support their families.

so in conclusion what your saying is that marriage is a solution to all these mess up's being taken place today, and I agree. But the matter is left upon these individual's to educate themselves first, which they lack much of. If one feel's they have no other option to provide for their family, it seems benefit is one option to consider, but to consider themselves finding a job also. I hope i havent said anything wrong, if so please do correct me.

i hope that this discussion is over as i feel you've made your point clear and insha'Allaah i have too.


may Allaah SWT ease the situations of those who want to marry Aameen.

jazakallaahu Khaayr.

[GuestFellow]

I appreciate that brother, but it just means you will have to strive that bit harder. But why are unemployment rates higher amongst Muslims?

Salaam,

Discrimination and location are factors to be considered.

BTW, do you have evidence that unemployment rates is higher in Muslim communities? I would also like to add, the government does not consider people who are not claiming benefits like JSA to be unemployed.

Wallahi this is something as a community we need to turn around. I have seen it first hand people studying for a vocational career have got those jobs alhamdulillah because they were very hard working. For the generation approaching the marrying age, it's not gonna be easy but I think going out and doing something about it is better than complaining about it.

Getting a job is VERY hard. When you are unemployed for more than a year, you are going to complain and vent out your frustration, especially when you only have 3 or 5 interviews and applied for thousands of jobs with few responses. The economy is crap at the moment and there are not many jobs. Most employers prefer to recruit people that are already employed from my experience.

[Salahudeen]

Salaam,

Discrimination and location are factors to be considered.

BTW, do you have evidence that unemployment rates is higher in Muslim communities? I would also like to add, the government does not consider people who are not claiming benefits like JSA to be unemployed.



Getting a job is VERY hard. When you are unemployed for more than a year, you are going to complain and vent out your frustration, especially when you only have 3 or 5 interviews and applied for thousands of jobs with few responses. The economy is crap at the moment and there are not many jobs. Most employers prefer to recruit people that are already employed from my experience.

Tell me about it, I have 1 year of uni left and I am stressing about what's gonna happen when I finish, I don't wanna be sitting around doing nothing, I got an SIA badge which means I could do security guard jobs if I can manage to get one, and at the same time I will apply for jobs related to my degree. But the future isn't looking bright :heated:

Quite a few companies who were offering graduate schemes are no longer offering them :( my friend who graduated last year is becoming increasingly frustrated with each passing day because he's studied for the last 3 years and he can't land a job. I have a feeling I'll be joining him.

I thought I would be ok because when I started my degree people were going, "Oh the recession will be over by the time you graduate and everything will pick up so don't worry about it" but it hasn't.

And all the jobs that are related to my degree are in London for some reason, I don't get why, but compared to London all the other towns don't have much jobs.

The riots I think were a result of increasing frustration amongst people about the fact that they can't get a job to work for the things they want.

The more time you're out of a job and doing nothing the more stress and pressure builds up on you and you just burst eventually from all the stress and pressure of trying to get someone to employ you.

[إحسان]

You should have said "Uhhh.. no thanks! But I have a sister! In fact two of them... take your pick!" :)

It was actually a kind of scary encounter, I don't talk much to boys so I was stuttering a bit out of embarrassment - I go to an all girls school :p. I was standing at the bus stop reading off my book, and he was leaning on a nearby tree staring at me for a good two minutes. This is how the convo went - I posted this after the event happened straight away after I came home nearly two months ago on the islamic forum islamway sisters, so I'm copying & pasting what I wrote then:


'AsSalamu Alaykum sister... I'm looking for a wife and uh it's absolutely hard to find a good wife here and I thought maybe you'd be interested. I tho-' (I cut him off)

'I'm too young to be honest' I'm SIXTEEEN!!! I guess I was dressed maturely then usual since I was wearing an abaya instead of normal clothes that covered my body.

'Aren't you a University student?' (I was carrying books, so he misunderstood)

'No, I'm 16... sorry' He looked flushed :/

'Ohh' He looked down at his feet...

'There's a nearby masjid, you can ask around there if you'd like'

'Oh okay, no worries.'

Then he fled off on the next bus while speaking on the phone (by his accent I could tell he was Iraqi 100%)

I don't know if it's right if I told the guy to ask my older sisters. Or maybe I should have but there'd be so much awkwardness! :hiding:

Anyway, I was totally freaked out, and kinda upset since the man mistook me for being 3/4 years older than my actual age but I guess I was dressed maturely that day. But oh well. When I told my sisters and my brother they laughed and told their friends... A proposal at the bus stop. :giggling:

[noorseeker]

Its not looking rosy for the economy for a few years yet,

what i dont get is Weddings are still gettin more extravagant

I wonder when the asian recession is going to start:hmm:

[Salahudeen]

Its not looking rosy for the economy for a few years yet,

what i dont get is Weddings are still gettin more extravagant

I wonder when the asian recession is going to start:hmm:

lol I was eating something as I read your post and nearly choked cos I laughed so hard. Brother noor, they take out loans to cover the wedding, they don't have that kind of cash stored in the bank.

I heard sad news the other day that this couple who had such a big wedding that it was the talk of the town, it was so big no 1 in our community had ever done a wedding as big as they did it, the boys father was a doctor so they could afford the full works, anyway I heard they split up after 9 months of marriage. :hmm:

[noorseeker]

Nice to see you laughing,, ;D I can see this thread has brought your frustations out .

My family are finding me people but i have to say no as im enough debt as it is.

But they think that i dont want to get married.

And ive said it to them , all they want is a wedding is closer to home, as in the family, so they can dress up for the day.;D

[Salahudeen]

Nice to see you laughing,, ;D I can see this thread has brought your frustations out .

My family are finding me people but i have to say no as im enough debt as it is.

But they think that i dont want to get married.

And ive said it to them , all they want is a wedding is closer to home, as in the family, so they can dress up for the day.;D

Sorry 2 hear that, well getting married closer to home is certainly easier because people are more trusting since they know everything about you and watched you grow up, but don't leave it too late, doesn't debt get written off after a certain number of years?

[Banu_Hashim]

Its not looking rosy for the economy for a few years yet,

what i dont get is Weddings are still gettin more extravagant

I wonder when the asian recession is going to start:hmm:

ahh, don't get me started on asian weddings! Ridiculously over the top! I still don't understand it!

[GuestFellow]

Salaam,

Tell me about it, I have 1 year of uni left and I am stressing about what's gonna happen when I finish, I don't wanna be sitting around doing nothing, I got an SIA badge which means I could do security guard jobs if I can manage to get one, and at the same time I will apply for jobs related to my degree. But the future isn't looking bright :heated:

Quite a few companies who were offering graduate schemes are no longer offering them :( my friend who graduated last year is becoming increasingly frustrated with each passing day because he's studied for the last 3 years and he can't land a job. I have a feeling I'll be joining him.

I thought I would be ok because when I started my degree people were going, "Oh the recession will be over by the time you graduate and everything will pick up so don't worry about it" but it hasn't.

And all the jobs that are related to my degree are in London for some reason, I don't get why, but compared to London all the other towns don't have much jobs.

The riots I think were a result of increasing frustration amongst people about the fact that they can't get a job to work for the things they want.

The more time you're out of a job and doing nothing the more stress and pressure builds up on you and you just burst eventually from all the stress and pressure of trying to get someone to employ you.

I feel your pain. o_o

Here are some tips:

1. Get your CV and Cover Letter done by a professional. The Cover Letter highlights your main skills that are relevant to the job and the CV is a summary about you. Make sure you update your CV on a regular basis.

2. Volunteer. Volunteering can help build up some experience.

3. Learn new skills. Skills such as Pitman Shorthand, Touch Typing, First Aid, EDCL course and so on can significantly improve your chances of getting a job.

4. Learn a new language.

5. Work Trial Placement. On your cover letter or CV, make an offer to do a work trial placement.

6. Practice interview! There are centres where you can practice having an interview.

These tips are not good but it did help me a little.

[Who Am I?]

:sl:

Well it looks like I missed quite the argument while I was gone.

My opinion has still not changed. I'm still not ready to find a wife, but maybe I will be soon.

['Abd Al-Maajid]

Have we come to a conclusion yet, after 10 pages of discussion?

[noorseeker]

Conclusion

we are not following islam properly

[Who Am I?]

Have we come to a conclusion yet, after 10 pages of discussion?

I think the only logical conclusion here is that there is no conclusion.

[GuestFellow]

Conclusion:

I LIKE PILLOWS!

The conclusion is that getting married is not easy and that everyone disagrees! :p:

[jimbo123]

Conclusion is if you can't marry, work towards it and fast as much as you can. If it's not meant to be its not meant to be and inshallah you will marry in the hereafter.

[ardianto]

What I have learned from some marriage threads in IB is .....

Is easier for brothers who live in Muslim countries to get married than brothers who live in non-Muslim countries.

Process to marriage should started by introductory phase when the brother and the sister meet, introduce, and start to know each other. Of course, according to Islamic manner. And after they know each other character and personality they decide to marry or not to marry and stop this meeting.

Brothers in Muslim countries can do this phase easily because the sisters are living in the same city, or other city that not so far.

But brother who lives in a non-Muslim country, like UK, will face a problem if he is living in a city where only few Muslim families live there. He can requests his family or friends in other places to find a sister for him. But if the sister who they find is living in Pakistan, how much money does this brother need to start the introductory phase ?

[Banu_Hashim]

^Of course. There's a larger "market", if you like, in Muslim countries.

[Who Am I?]

What I have learned from some marriage threads in IB is .....

Is easier for brothers who live in Muslim countries to get married than brothers who live in non-Muslim countries.

Process to marriage should started by introductory phase when the brother and the sister meet, introduce, and start to know each other. Of course, according to Islamic manner. And after they know each other character and personality they decide to marry or not to marry and stop this meeting.

Brothers in Muslim countries can do this phase easily because the sisters are living in the same city, or other city that not so far.

But brother who lives in a non-Muslim country, like UK, will face a problem if he is living in a city where only few Muslim families live there. He can requests his family or friends in other places to find a sister for him. But if the sister who they find is living in Pakistan, how much money does this brother need to start the introductory phase ?

:sl:

What if your family is non-Muslim? That is an extra dimension and an added obstacle for some of us.

Also the whole "need to be a better man before marriage" obstacle.

[noorseeker]

But brother who lives in a non-Muslim country, like UK, will face a problem if he is living in a city where only few Muslim families live there. He can requests his family or friends in other places to find a sister for him. But if the sister who they find is living in Pakistan, how much money does this brother need to start the introductory phase ?

In uk most of us live in bigger cities and are around our own race, so its not a case of lack of numbers.

All the bro needs is a British passport if he wants to get a Sister from back home ;D

[Salahudeen]

I think also we should not have huge expectations in searching for a marriage partner, no exaggeration some people have a bullet point list, and if one of the points isn't met they disregard that person, practising Islamic people I'm talking about, I recall reading the profiles on matrimonial sites and having a heart attack at the amount of expectations some people had :hmm: In the "Looking for" bit, I had wrote a little paragraph 4 or 5 lines of what I wanted in a woman, and was quite surprised to see essays with bullet points on other people's "Looking for", it deterred me from actually talking to them because the more expectations a person has the harder they are to please and make happy. So I think we should lower our expectations of marriage partners. Who wants to marry someone with a list of expectations when you can marry someone who doesn't have a long list of expectations and is happy/grateful to have food on the table every day.

Lot of men marry girls from poor families because they are happy with the basic necessities and do not demand a great deal from their husbands. This is also my goal to find a girl who comes from a very poor background so she will be happy and content with the little things and when I decide to push the boat out, it will mean a lot to her.

I did used to have a list myself, then I realized I wasn't being realistic.

[Salahudeen]

double post.........

[Who Am I?]

This is also my goal to find a girl who comes from a very poor background so she will be happy and content with the little things and when I decide to push the boat out, it will mean a lot to her.

Dude, you have a boat?

[Galaxy]

:sl:

Well I'm not looking to get married but if I were, I would be scared of marraige itself .

[ardianto]

What if your family is non-Muslim? That is an extra dimension and an added obstacle for some of us.

Also the whole "need to be a better man before marriage" obstacle.

:sl:

I can't answer this question, but I found a thread that contains a beautiful story. Maybe you can get an inspiration from this story.

http://www.islamicboard.com/general/...ing-story.html

[ardianto]

Lot of men marry girls from poor families because they are happy with the basic necessities and do not demand a great deal from their husbands. This is also my goal to find a girl who comes from a very poor background so she will be happy and content with the little things and when I decide to push the boat out, it will mean a lot to her.

If you find a poor girl who ate twice a day, don't ever thinking "if I feed her twice a day, it's enough. She is familiar with life like this". But you must promise yourself, you should feed her thrice a day.

Good wives are wives who always happy with what their husbands give to them without expecting more. And the good husbands are husbands who always trying to make their wives happy by giving more than their wives expect.

[noorseeker]

Lot of men marry girls from poor families because they are happy with the basic necessities and do not demand a great deal from their husbands. This is also my goal to find a girl who comes from a very poor background so she will be happy and content with the little things and when I decide to push the boat out, it will mean a lot to her.

But there are lots of women and men who comes to Uk from back home, who did live the poor life, but now after living here, they get used to it, and become just as materialistic as us.

[Pure Purple]

What I have learned from some marriage threads in IB is .....

Is easier for brothers who live in Muslim countries to get married than brothers who live in non-Muslim countries.

Process to marriage should started by introductory phase when the brother and the sister meet, introduce, and start to know each other. Of course, according to Islamic manner. And after they know each other character and personality they decide to marry or not to marry and stop this meeting.

Brothers in Muslim countries can do this phase easily because the sisters are living in the same city, or other city that not so far.

OHHH..
I never thought of that..For those people who are not living in Muslim country...:heated::hmm:

Well I'm not looking to get married but if I were, I would be scared of marraige itself .

You are not alone...

[ardianto]

Well I'm not looking to get married but if I were, I would be scared of marraige itself .

If you have a husband who always treats you well, then the marriage is not scary thing.

So, always make du'a, wish Allah give you a good husband.

[ardianto]

But there are lots of women and men who comes to Uk from back home, who did live the poor life, but now after living here, they get used to it, and become just as materialistic as us.

Same here.

Poverty can make (some) poor people obsessed with luxury. And for people like this, marriage with rich persons regarded as the way to reach their obsession.

[aadil77]

Ok well what will these families who don't see it as a respectful way of living do if unemployment continues to rise and there's no jobs for the majority of the population? In these times even non muslims are finding it hard to get jobs never mind Muslims upon sunnah so what is the solution for all those Muslim men who can't find jobs through no fault of their own? What if we reached a situation where unemployment went so high that there was only enough jobs for 40-50% of the population and the rest had to live off benefits, would Muslims stop getting married then because the requirement of "has to have a job to support" can't be met by the majority of Muslim men?

I don't believe this unemployment fear mongering applies to muslims, if you try hard to find work and Allah wills then you will find work no matter what the situation. Again with regards to practicing the sunnah I know of brothers with huge beards getting top jobs, these are guys who have refused to shake hands with female interviewers. My mum used to tell to me I'd never get a decent job with a beard because of discrimination, heck even an english couple told me the same, they told me to shave my beard before the interview - ended up proving them all wrong!

also as unemployment rates continue to rise the chances of finding that guy with the job decreases, so you may well keep your daughter sitting on the shelve untill she's 30 waiting for a pious guy with a job, I think it's better if you find a pious guy on benefits then give her hand providing you get to know him first and see what type of person he is. We have to be realistic women are sitting around till their 30s waiting for the pious guy with good job and rejecting pious men on state benefits, there has to be a compromise somewhere.

Now a days there are no shortages of pious guys with jobs, masha'Allah plenty of people coming towards deen

I mean even a guy on state benefits can provide a good quality of life compared to that of the sahabba (RA), right? So if women want a man like the prophet (saw) then they should be prepared to make sacrifices like the wives of the prophet (saw) and sahabba. There was periods when they would go hungry and tie stones to their stomachs, no one told them cos of this they shouldn't be married cos they can't provide for their wife.

I'd be interested, which woman today would marry a man who could offer her a little hut with out a proper bed, and the only food is dates every day? If a pious man came who was like the prophet (saw) would women today accept this? Because all of this and more can be offered on state benefits.

You see it's about how big your house is and whether you can provide her with her own kitchen and car that matters now days. If you can provide a shared kitchen and bathroom you've got no chance ;D it would be great if we we could transport them back in time to the time of the prophet (saw) then they will be grateful when they have to go into the bushes to do their business and find rocks to wipe themselves with and they have to survive on a few dates every day, and they have to sleep on a hard bed, then a guy on benefits who follows sunnah will be like a millionaire to them ;D

It's understandable that parents want an easy life for their daughters but at what cost?? is it really worth the risk of letting your child fall into sin?? making her wait till she's 30+ for the pious guy with a good job which is becoming more and more rare. Fair enough if you have the choice between two pious people, 1 with a job and the other hasn't you're obviously gonna chose the 1 with the job, but that's not the case now days, what we see now days is, guy who isn't pious with job, verses pious guy on benefits, and the guy with a job who isn't pious wins every time. Which tells me people are more concerned about this duniya than the akhira, because if they really cared about the akhira they'd pick the pious guy on benefits every time over the non pious guy.

Nothing wrong with living simple like the prophet

But this is all down to personal preference, women need security, would you be comfortable knowing your daughter is married to a man who barely makes ends meet?

These are just my views from what I've seen of the world, you're welcome to disagree. Living off benefits is respectful I think when you're trying to find a job, but if you're living off them cos you can't be bothered to work then it isn't. Check this article out.

I really couldn't reject a pious brother on benefits because he can't get a job. Fair enough if jobs were easy to come by and there was more jobs than people, but the fact is, currently there is more people than jobs, so I don't see it as fair punishing someone because there's not enough jobs to go round. The supply is greater than the demand sadly and that isn't a person's fault, it doesn't mean he's lazy cos he's living off benefits it means there's not enough jobs to go around.

Agreed

[ardianto]

To all brothers.

Definition of working is not only work in a company and get salary regularly. If we work as freelance salesman without salary by get commission, this is also working. If we walk door to door offering computer repair, this is also working.

Many religious Muslim brothers in Indonesia married in young age because they already have desire to woman, and they already found a life-partner. Marriage is the way to prevent ummah from zina.

Not easy for those brothers to find a job, but they did not give up. They do everything to make money such as, sell other people goods that trusted to them, give math lesson to children, be a freelance repairmen, or teach Qur'an recitation to people.

Marriage is sunnah, and we must sure, Allah will give an easiness to anyone who follow sunnah.

[Who Am I?]

To all brothers.

Definition of working is not only work in a company and get salary regularly. If we work as freelance salesman without salary by get commission, this is also working. If we walk door to door offering computer repair, this is also working.

Many religious Muslim brothers in Indonesia married in young age because they already have desire to woman, and they already found a life-partner. Marriage is the way to prevent ummah from zina.

Not easy for those brothers to find a job, but they did not give up. They do everything to make money such as, sell other people goods that trusted to them, give math lesson to children, be a freelance repairmen, or teach Qur'an recitation to people.

Marriage is sunnah, and we must sure, Allah will give an easiness to anyone who follow sunnah.

:sl:

Well I'm not sure that I agree with the marriage is sunnah part, because then you're telling me that I am disobeying Allah by remaining single. I could see that if I was committing zina, but I'm not out sleeping around with random women. I don't even have a girlfriend.

I'm simply a guy who realizes that I am not the kind of man that I need to be. This is my primary concern, before anything else, even before marriage. I can't be a good husband if I can't be a good man first and foremost.

So I strive to become a better man. But don't tell me that I am not obeying Allah because I remain unmarried.

[Futuwwa]

Well, marrying is a sunnah, so it'd count as mustahab, not as fard. Meaning, commendable, but not something you will be punished for not doing.

[Who Am I?]

Well, marrying is a sunnah, so it'd count as mustahab, not as fard. Meaning, commendable, but not something you will be punished for not doing.

:sl:

Well, OK then. That's better.

Not everyone is meant to be married, and I am beginning to think that maybe I am one of those.

Anyway, still striving to become a better man...

[Futuwwa]

On the contrary, everyone is meant to be married. If not here, then in jannah :)

[Salahudeen]

On the contrary, everyone is meant to be married. If not here, then in jannah :)

We're meant to be but often we don't find, some people are just destined to be alone I guess. Inshallah they will have in jannah.

[Who Am I?]

On the contrary, everyone is meant to be married. If not here, then in jannah :)

:sl:

Just something else to look forward to after death.

Not that I'm in a hurry to die. I still have things I need to do here first.

Like, live.

[ardianto]

Well I'm not sure that I agree with the marriage is sunnah part, because then you're telling me that I am disobeying Allah by remaining single. I could see that if I was committing zina, but I'm not out sleeping around with random women. I don't even have a girlfriend.

:sl:

Oh, oh, brother.

The point in that post is not marriage as sunnah, but about "how to make money". :D

[S.Belle]

Assalam o alaikum all,

I've a question for all you single people out there who have been actively looking tget married

What's your biggest frustration / fear in getting married , the reason why you haven't gotten married so far?

I ask cuz I've been happily married for a few years and I love this - I just wonder why my friends (and some of my wife's friends) aren't able to get married.

biggest frustation would be not knowing who and when im going to get married
biggest fears in getting married would be marrying someone that im not really compatible with and divorcing and not being a dutiful wife
im not married now bc...just hasnt happen yet and i ever so slightly enjoy being single and not having to deal with all the responsiblities that marriage brings.

[ardianto]

We will never find someone who really compatible with us. But if we are willing to adapt to our spouses and our spouses are willing to adapt to us, then our spouses will be compatible partners for us.

Willing to accept disadvantage is the key to find a life-partner, and willing to adapt to our partner is the key to build a happy marriage life.

[Salahudeen]

We will never find someone who really compatible with us. But if we are willing to adapt to our spouses and our spouses are willing to adapt to us, then our spouses will be compatible partners for us.

Willing to accept disadvantage is the key to find a life-partner, and willing to adapt to our partner is the key to build a happy marriage life.

That's the key brother, adapting our requirements.

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Wow..I can't believe I read all that..but I still have no idea what everyone's discussing? It's like everyones agreeing on the same points but want to disagree slightly so the ever-so-awesome marriage discussion can last longer..I don't blame ya, marriage discussions are fun!

So does this summarize it?

1) It's hard for dudes to get married cuz of finances, cultural issues (like expensive weddings), and other cultural issues.

2) Its hard for the ladies to get married cuz they can't find proper guys, or they find good ones but the dude is not prepared to support a lady.

3) Some dudes and ladies are afraid of the responsibilities of marriage.

4) People have a lot of time to talk about marriage -_-

Now I can't go and read a marriage thread and not post my two cents. There's a reason they call me the Love Guru folks. So here goes:

1) If dude's are finding it hard to get married because of finances -> stop sitting on a forum and go out and find a way to earn some income. A bit harsh, but seriously. If you have the time to write humongous posts, I'm sure that time can be used to learn something new. There's a lot you can do in your time so start applying some time management and getting some new marketable skills. Sure there aren't too many jobs out there, but if you make yourself stand out, they'll hire you. A Muslim is to be the best and do things with Ihsaan (excellence). Don't have a defeatist mentality where you feel you're the victim of a bad economy. Get out and do something productive.

وَمَن يَتَهَيَّبْ صُعُودَالجِبَالِ يَعِشْ ابَدِالدَّهْرِبَينَ الحُفَرْ

"Whoever fears climbing the mountains, will forever remain between the ditches"

Cultural issues - expensive weddings etc. Sure, they cost a lot. The culture sucks because it dictates this and many families are in to the whole $100,000 wedding. So do what you need to do to convince your families to make it easier, but be aware that there's only so much you can do. It sucks, but it is a fact of life. There's no right way to bring the cost down, but if you're reasonable in the way you present your case to your family, perhaps there's a chance it'll work.

In other news. Wives are expensive. Women are expensive, financially, emotionally etc. They require money. They require time. They require a lot of emotional investment. They require you to be there for them. So get to learning on how to deal with women and their issues. The sisters might not like this, but the fact is that no matter how religious a girl is or thinks she is or how much she thinks she wants a religious dude and she'll be happy - the fact of the matter will always be that she's a girl and that means she will come with the package of emotions, feelings and the general lack of rational. Sure she want's a religious guy, but what she wants more is a guy who will understand her, take care of her, love her, cherish her, and be there for her through thick and thin. Those are the core emotional needs of women. She's made from a bent rib that you cannot straighten so learn to work with that otherwise you'll just break her. Wives are amazing, their strength is emotional empathy and that's amazing and they make absolutely amazing life partners. But you gotta realize, there will be times you'll come home to a wife that's mad or sad for no reason or is crying for no reason. At those times, quoting Quran or Hadeeth telling her to count her blessings etc isn't relevant, it's the human aspect of being there for her without asking why. Later on, she'll be fine and you can talk about stuff. Anyone married or with sisters can testify to this.

For the dudes saying they're ugly or other things that exude a lack of confidence - have you ever noticed in campus or on the street etc that a drop dead gorgeous girl is walking hand in hand with a dude that looks like he's been hit by a truck? (This isn't saying you're like that, but generally) I'm sure youve seen that. What does that tell you? Women are more attracted to manly men, meaning men who exude confidence, who can take control, decisive, who knows what he wants in life and what his goals are. That dude with the model-like girl at his side has confidence and knows how to be a man. Remember, the girl needs to pass your test, not the other way around. To be honest, your lack of confidence in who you are is more of a turn off to women than your looks. Looks are relative - you probably have a bad reference point if you're using it to judge yourself. If you can't be comfortable in who you are, how in the world do you expect a girl to be comfortable with you? This isn't to excuse the dudes who look like they've just woken up with unkempt hair or bad dress sense. Do your part, dress well, keep your hair neat (don't look like a caveman), and wear mature clothes. Appearance is key. Present yourself well. Everybody's beautiful.

Also, listen to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4oetwj5tes

2) You're right - the fact is and this is what I've seen - a lot of dudes are desperate to get married but when you ask them what're they doing for it? Nothing. They're still stuck in school, not taking things seriously. It's true. Sure, he might be an awesome hafidh, qaari, super recitation brother but that's not what makes a man capable of supporting a lady. But maybe you're also looking in the wrong places?

3) Yes, it's scary. But if you're scared, use the time to educate yourself about marriage, relationships, the pshycology of men vs women, communication etc. Believe me, it'll come in handy!

4) I wish I had the time for more marriage talk!

[Alpha Dude]

Wives are amazing, their strength is emotional empathy and that's amazing and they make absolutely amazing life partners.

This is a gold statement. I couldn't agree more. InshaAllah we are all blessed with wives.

In other news. Wives are expensive. Women are expensive, financially, emotionally etc. They require money. They require time. They require a lot of emotional investment. They require you to be there for them. So get to learning on how to deal with women and their issues. The sisters might not like this, but the fact is that no matter how religious a girl is or thinks she is or how much she thinks she wants a religious dude and she'll be happy - the fact of the matter will always be that she's a girl and that means she will come with the package of emotions, feelings and the general lack of rational.

This is likely to earn you the wrath of feminists... :uuh:

[noorseeker]

Please carry on bro Muraad;D

For the dudes saying they're ugly or other things that exude a lack of confidence

Thats me for you ;D

[Tyrion]

For the dudes saying they're ugly or other things that exude a lack of confidence

But what about those of us who are super sexy but still can't find a wife? ^o)

[Alpha Dude]

But what about those of us who are super sexy but still can't find a wife? ^o)

Make yourself look repulsive and grow some confidence and/or ask zAk how he overcame this debilitating condition.

[kingkong]

Most of what people say, sounds easy but putting it into practise is much more complex.

He states people need to work harder, guess what, many men already do overtime, they tons of it, who's to say the people on here, usually only on for a few minutes each day, don't work like maniacs right now? It's at a stage no matter how hard the man works, in fact the harder he works, the more he earns he'll end up more likely spending more on the wedding.

You say women are expensive and emotionally expensive, that is correct they are, the question is, should they be? On average my uncle's outfits cost £15-£30, perhaps an expensive shirt might cost £25, but that's for special occasions, the average suit my aunty wears costs £150 if the husbands don't spend that much on their wives, they are considered stingy/miserly. Women seriously and moreso their families, seriously seriously need to be like this, a wedding should cost around £2000 not £20000, all that money, especially in these difficult times, would help them buy a house much sooner. I hate weddings, I absolutely hate them because I think of the poor guys, the men who have been emotionally forced into spending this outrageous amount on the wedding.

I don't know a single man, you guys can dispute this if you like, I don't know a single man who cares about whether his wedding is fancy or not, whether it's the most extravagant the town has seen. But the ladies, that have to have it extravagant, no matter how extravagant it will never be extravagant enough. Due to the cost of my wedding, I will not be able to buy a house for a least another 3 years, had it been a simple wedding, I could have perhaps bought on within the next 4 months, at least put the deposit down for one.

Women are expensive, weddings are even more expensive and they should not be.

As for men and their wants. It's extremely shallow when you hear men and their mothers always asking for a "slim, fair and beautiful" girl before asking for the ones with good character. How shallow of these men to look for that. Whilst it's important to marry someone you're attracted to, you don't have to marry a supermodel, especially if you look unattractive yourself. Let's be honest, about 10-15% of the world population can be classed as physically very attractive right? So does that mean the other 80+% don't have the right to marry or they should be at the back of the queue. I have cut ties with guys who has spoken of women in such ways and I pray I don't ever think like that, even if I am blessed with children of my own.

Regarding the confidence thing, I think it's wonderful that many brothers lack confidence, it's a sign of their reserved and perhaps shy nature. Surely the girls should be looking for the shy boys, the ones less likely to have been mucking around with girls prior to marriage? So that she and him can grow in confidence together in married life?

The girls wonder where all the nice guys are, well guess what, in the 21st century, it tends to be nice and shy or confident not so nice. So make your pick, do you want the confident guy or the shy guy. If I had a sister, I would never ever let her marry a "confident" guy, not in my lifetime.

I would also like to say it's pretty bad that these days boys and girls are remaining single until their late 20s and some people till their 30s. What are the families of these young people playing at? What are these people playing at? Actually 30 is not young at all, it's definitely not an age you would call young.

I went to a wedding once with my uncle, and the bride and the groom were family friends, the man was 36 and the bride was 34, both of them getting married for the first time. He said to me, how much better would it have been if this man married this same girl in their early 20s when they were young and beautiful, now they are both old with half their lives wasted. I have to echo the thoughts, if you're going to leave your first wedding so late, what is the point really?

Lastly I would just like to point out, how horrible culture is. Culture is the main driving force behind weddings being so expensive, beautiful girls sought out and not the pure hearted ones, culture is the reason why men's financial status is more important than their character and culture is the reason why marriage is becoming more difficult for young men and women.

[GuestFellow]

But what about those of us who are super sexy but still can't find a wife? ^o)

The mirror is deceiving you...

[Riana17]

But what about those of us who are super sexy but still can't find a wife?

....................



The mirror is deceiving you...

Salam Alaikkum

That made me smile.

For me a lazy man cannot marry, but a man who works can marry and no one will die in hanger.

I am married and praying to be with my husband till death because MARRIAGE is so beautiful

. How can I explain these in words???

Certain features I like is his patience, he is uncontrolling man, open minded, simple, not materialistic, a responsible husband and always excited to spend time with me after working hours, goes out with his friend few hours each week or two, his good looks & cleanliness is a plus but men oh men believe me, looking good is not big deal to a woman's heart.

My husband is a kind of man who will beg Allah to accept me to Jannah before himself. May Allah be pleased with him forever, Amen.


A man like Brother Ardianto is great find for ladies

but what's most important are the above, A good manner is more than enough, women will die to have a well mannered husband.

[Alpha Dude]

Regarding the confidence thing, I think it's wonderful that many brothers lack confidence, it's a sign of their reserved and perhaps shy nature. Surely the girls should be looking for the shy boys, the ones less likely to have been mucking around with girls prior to marriage? So that she and him can grow in confidence together in married life?

The girls wonder where all the nice guys are, well guess what, in the 21st century, it tends to be nice and shy or confident not so nice. So make your pick, do you want the confident guy or the shy guy. If I had a sister, I would never ever let her marry a "confident" guy, not in my lifetime.

I think you've interpreted Muraad's idea of 'confidence' a little differently than he would have intended.

In my opinion, there's a difference between arrogant, ego-based confidence and the kind of confidence that comes about from a deep rooted conviction in something. The former is the attribute of a misguided individual whereas the latter is the idea of a person stepping up and quite literally, just 'being a man' when the need arises.

Note, however, that being confident based on conviction is not mutually exclusive with being humble and reserved/shy. Much depends on the context. There's a time to be shy and modest and there's a time to be confident.

[SFatima]

I agree with alpha dude, a man without self confidence, hmmm, even if he's quite good looking, he doesn't make a popular female choice, but a confident man, no matter how plain looking, catches quite a few girls' fancies. But confidence is also something that one can work on, I've known people who used to be overtly shy at young age and have groomed themselves to be quite pleasantly confident, sans the arrogance and impoliteness. It definitely is an acquirable and admirable trait, for
both men and women.

As far as the arrogant confidence is concerned, it comes from either a sheer lack of some good parenting, or excess of it. It also comes from a deep sense of inferiority complex, and the arrogant person usually tries to overcome it by sounding super cool, sarcastic, uncaring and impolite. Such people rarely have lasting or meaningful relationships, they only worship their self, and are only concerned about their self/their feelings and their moods.

A BAD choice for marriage, such people, so all girlies out there, beware , since women really tend to get attracted to this type and realize only when its too late :p

[Riana17]

I agree with alpha dude, a man without self confidence, hmmm, even if he's quite good looking, he doesn't make a popular female choice, but a confident man, no matter how plain looking, catches quite a few girls' fancies. But confidence is also something that one can work on, I've known people who used to be overtly shy at young age and have groomed themselves to be quite pleasantly confident, sans the arrogance and impoliteness. It definitely is an acquirable and admirable trait, for
both men and women.

As far as the arrogant confidence is concerned, it comes from either a sheer lack of some good parenting, or excess of it. It also comes from a deep sense of inferiority complex, and the arrogant person usually tries to overcome it by sounding super cool, sarcastic, uncaring and impolite. Such people rarely have lasting or meaningful relationships, they only worship their self, and are only concerned about their self/their feelings and their moods.

A BAD choice for marriage, such people, so all girlies out there, beware , since women really tend to get attracted to this type and realize only when its too late :p

SALAM ALAIKKUM

That's why arrogant & proud

people will never go to Jannah Sister

And as you said, we hope our single Sisters can see that before hand. Amen

[kingkong]

There is nothing worse, nothing worse than divorce in terms of all the halal things Muslims can do, unfortunately people are lost in terms of prioritizing what's important nowadays and hence why not only in the western world, but in the Muslim world divorce rates are soaring.

[*Yasmin*]

You say women are expensive and emotionally expensive, that is correct they are, the question is, should they be? On average my uncle's outfits cost £15-£30, perhaps an expensive shirt might cost £25, but that's for special occasions, the average suit my aunty wears costs £150 if the husbands don't spend that much on their wives, they are considered stingy/miserly. Women seriously and moreso their families, seriously seriously need to be like this, a wedding should cost around £2000 not £20000, all that money, especially in these difficult times, would help them buy a house much sooner. I hate weddings, I absolutely hate them because I think of the poor guys, the men who have been emotionally forced into spending this outrageous amount on the wedding.

I don't know a single man, you guys can dispute this if you like, I don't know a single man who cares about whether his wedding is fancy or not, whether it's the most extravagant the town has seen. But the ladies, that have to have it extravagant, no matter how extravagant it will never be extravagant enough. Due to the cost of my wedding, I will not be able to buy a house for a least another 3 years, had it been a simple wedding, I could have perhaps bought on within the next 4 months, at least put the deposit down for one.

and guys aren't you expensive too? when you want to buy a car don't you look for the best and newest car so you can boast a little infront your male friends?
and if you have enough money you buy your wife a dumb car and let her drives it and you feel shy to drive it when your other fancy car isn't around for whatever reason
moreover, i know some men who are obsessed with fancy things, every t-shirt must be with a tag!, like my cousins and my friend's father.. i can make a long list !


regarding the fancy wedding that "our cultures" oblige us for it. you said it, it's a culture problem not "an abstract women problem"
first of all we should bear in mind it's not the "wife wedding" alone, for example, where i live the wedding lasts two - three days, one day for the bride, another day for the groom, last day for both of them and it's basically for the groom coz the bride just sit there like a chair!.

another problem is even the grandparents and parents generations had problems getting married too coz of "cultures problem", but most of them aren't learning from past experiences, now when anyone asks for daughters' or granddaughters' hands they make it difficult for the guys!
and sometimes it's not just because the girl's family, there are problems from both sides.
my very best friend got engaged last july and she begged her mother-in-law not to make a party, but she refused she said: 'my son is my only one, i must feel happy in that day and ppl are supposed to share this happiness with me!' and the poor guy had to follow his mum's wish!, and my friend couldn't stay stubborn coz of the new "mother-in law".

['Abd Al-Maajid]

A man like Brother Ardianto is great find for ladies

Brother Ardianto, you have slots 2, 3 and 4 empty? ;D;D;D;D

[SFatima]

Most of what people say, sounds easy but putting it into practise is much more complex.

Exactly, its complex, and thats why its getting too late for so many singles out there, it isn't always the choice to be single, not with muslim girls atleast.

I would also like to say it's pretty bad that these days boys and girls are remaining single until their late 20s and some people till their 30s. What are the families of these young people playing at? What are these people playing at? Actually 30 is not young at all, it's definitely not an age you would call young.

I agreed with most of your post, except this. Like i said earlier, no girl chooses to be single and I will specifically speak of girls here, since in muslim cultures and in decent families, girls only "get married" they don't get to choose who or when to marry. They are at complete disposal of their parents, its the parents who should strike some sense into their heads, they do sometimes pick and choose a lot, but there is also a severe shortage of men who come from decent families and want average/nice looking girls who don't look like white hoors, along with being a professional, she should be absolutely charming, should know all cuisines, be meek and well dressed, and her family well placed.

Also, such men themselves Ususally belong to the drinking, party and hanging out with girls class, its nothing for them, they call it 'being modern'. I myself have such proposals, and its shocking when i refuse them citing differences of ideologies, they are like no we are fine with religious girls, our moms are fine with too, as long as you don't bug me for what I do, and rest assured I'll never be asking about what you do either.???? Hugely disappointing!

And the few religious brothers that I did get proposals from,( they were 5 timers to the masjid, beards and all) and well well well, they thought I wasn't beautiful enough as they desired and not 16 either,(after giving me lectures on hazrat khadija being their favorite woman, what sheer hypocrisy lol, and its not like that I'm too bad looking :embarrasslol:p just not as fair as they wanted, as most people of our race are) , and I was just like a yr or two younger than them, which they cited as ," uhh you're too old for me" ,despite the fact that they looked much older/fatter/ weirder and ill dressed than I. I have been hearing the same crap for quite sometime now, and it really makes you wonder who really is at fault, the men or the women. Girls usually dont make an issue out of looks, but a working guy is definitely a requirement, since he has to raise a family, but if 90% of the men go for fair skinned beauties, why try to make the odd skinned ones feel bad about themselves? And when they do get passed over, what should they do? Should they run out and marry anyone who agrees to, and not have a decent respectable marriage?


All in all, I think there is a time written for marriage, and for the right partner, I really believe in that. Offcorse you can always rush in and marry anyone just for the heck of getting married, but then there are so many divorces and incompatibilities these days even in musim communities, that it makes you really think long before you take a decision.

I really don't think everyone understands the situation well unless they're in it, it may appear to others as if the delay is intentional, but it usually isn't. One of my uncles is 35 and despite having it all, he is an amazing human being, respectful, strong willed, caring, earning comfortable, isn't married cuz the girl he wanted to marry, his mother completely refused to allow him to, with emotional drama, just because she was of a different caste, what ignorance. He, after that, got so annoyed that he would reject every single girl she would choose for him.( In our culture the mothers choose the bride for their sons ). Its the same to this day, since he is of old school ideas and now,the girls today are very different n immature for his liking, he doesn't like them so much, may Allah give everyone the spouses that they deserve and soon, ameen.

I think parents have a Huge role in the late marriages of their children, its them who shape their thinking, and its them who have the means and the finances to marry them off if they intend to get them married off before the men have stable careers, which is quite difficult in the economic crunch of these days. If a person's parents aren't willing, the most he can do is talk about it, and most parents of our culture are like, don't even ask, they are as rigid about silly cultural norms as steel. May Allah forgive me for saying this, and may Allah swt guide all, ameen.

[kingkong]

I think parents have a Huge role in the late marriages of their children

They have a massive role to play if they decide to play one, if they don't peole need to use a bit of common sense and go to an Imam, it's a person's own fault if they decide to hang around forever in the hope their parents might take an active interest in their future.

No one can help you out if you don't bother helping yourself out first, isn't that the saying?

[SFatima]

Here It also deserves the mention, how the media and looking at all those unrealistically beautiful women who sell their bodies and souls , are there to change the perception of beauty of men( with all the air brushed graphically adjusted images). Men may deny, but all the actresses and singers and all those fantasy figures in console /pc /playstation games, inadvertently form men's perception of beauty close to that standard, one of the biggest reason they start finding even attractive girls , unattractive and their vision soars higher than the reality.

And then there are mothers and sisters who would criticize the choice of their brother or family member if he chooses a nice but not 'Very beautiful enough' girl, with the innuendos of " huhh is this your choice? wait, we'll look for a more beautiful woman for you" and most guys fall for that..

[SFatima]

They have a massive role to play if they decide to play one, if they don't peole need to use a bit of common sense and go to an Imam, it's a person's own fault if they decide to hang around forever in the hope their parents might take an active interest in their future.
No one can help you out if you don't bother helping yourself out first, isn't that the saying?

Sure, its applicable for men, but not for women, the imam only plays the role of the salah leader, he does not take responsibility for any other thing. Like in this masjid that I know, the imam is not even allowed to speak in favor of women, or point out serious loop holes of male thinking since these arrogant uncles always make a fuss about it. I hate arrogant people! Besides, no-one would step up to marry a girl who chooses to sideline her parents to go to the Imam, it is a culture where even men are mommy's boys , and honestly who wishes to marry such men who can't even stand up for what they believe in .

But, I guess something should be done about this attitude, we should distribute pamphlets or some really powerful kind of literature.

[kingkong]

Here It also deserves the mention, how the media and looking at all those unrealistically beautiful women who sell their bodies and souls , are there to change the perception of beauty of men( with all the air brushed graphically adjusted images). Men may deny, but all the actresses and singers and all those fantasy figures in console /pc /playstation games, inadvertently form men's perception of beauty close to that standard, one of the biggest reason they start finding even attractive girls , unattractive and their vision soars higher than the reality.

And then there mothers and sisters who would criticize the choice of their brother or family member if he chooses a nice but not 'Very beautiful enough' girl, with the innuendos of " huhh is this your choice? wait, we'll look for a more beautiful woman for you" and most guys fall for that..

I read this and I thought how messed up from the guys but I also thought why are ugly girls always crying about bring ugly? Why don't the ugly girls find some ugly boys?

[ardianto]

A man like Brother Ardianto is great find for ladies

The great find for those ladies are their husbands. The great find for you is your husband. :)

Brother Ardianto, you have slots 2, 3 and 4 empty?

As a Muslim male I have four slots. But all of those slots have been used by my wife. :D

['Abd Al-Maajid]

As a Muslim male I have four slots. But all of those slots have been used by my wife.

aww...:wub: how cute...:wub: <3 :p:

[SFatima]

I read this and I thought how messed up from the guys but I also thought why are ugly girls always crying about bring ugly? Why don't the ugly girls find some ugly boys?

No one is ugly, please use sensible language. If you find somebody ugly, that is the ugliness of one's eyes, not their skins.

Secondly, actually ugly is one's mannerisms and their inner self, sorry I don't agree that men who are ugly inside deserve women who are the un-seemingly looking ( which in your terminology is called ugly) you just contradicted your earlier statement here, :p maybe if you ever have an ugly daughter, you'll be more empathetic towards her needs, and please do find her an ugly boy of your choice.

Thirdly, not all beautiful women and men are able to pass on their genes, it is Allah's will who to make as He wishes. I know a girl who is very beautiful and her parents are both entirely plain looking and of different features and complexion. And I also know many girls who have really plain looking moms and their daughters turn out quite pretty.

[Salahudeen]

Beauty is whatever we perceive to be beautiful, one man's beauty queen is another man's Shrek, attraction is relative to each individual, you may find someone ugly but someone else will find that person beautiful because we all have tastes and likes, so if you feel ugly and feel like no 1 will like you, don't give up hope cos for someone out there you will be like beauty queen. People often say about a couple "what does that guy see in her, he's way to good for her" but they fail to realize they're not looking at her through that guys eyes, if they were they'd see something completely different, so don't feel ugly people.

However I do feel that because the society we live in constantly flaunts women at men from all directions, what men find attractive has become slightly warped, because they've been overly exposed to women they find it hard to see beauty in the average woman, where as men who come from very reserved countries that don't flaunt women everywhere, they are able to find attractiveness in all most every women because they haven't been exposed day in day out to many different women flaunting themselves.

[Riana17]

aww...:wub: how cute...:wub: <3 :p:

Salam

Lol I said the 'Like' of Brother Ardianto are the kinds of husbands to die for. Amen

Brother Ardianto, alhamdollelah you are right, he is meant for me and after religion, my husband is the blessings of Allah I thank the Most

. Alhamdollelah

[SFatima]

so if you feel ugly and feel like no 1 will like you, don't give up hope cos for someone out there y

I know this ain't directed to me but I am not ugly , I'm very good looking masAllah :statisfie ( how modest ;D)
But looks don't play the slightest part where I gather my confidence from, I have this friend who is quite pretty and she is always alwayyyyss in a looksworry :p:, Result: she spends an awful lot of time on her appearance and dressing, and has very few manners or any skills besides looking good, looks down upon people who don't wear expensive stuff and etc.

What use is the appreciation of your looks if it isn't even helping you as a person, and makes you believe in the delusional extent of the affect of your beauty on others, such an azmayesh( test) to even have good looks.

[SFatima]

SALAM ALAIKKUM

That's why arrogant & proud

people will never go to Jannah Sister

And as you said, we hope our single Sisters can see that before hand. Amen

I'm loving your new smileys, where'd you get them from?

[*Yasmin*]

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" ...

['Abd Al-Maajid]

I'm loving your new smileys, where'd you get them from?

zaazu.com.....?

[ardianto]

My good looking friend told me "my wife is absolutely not beautiful".

That's true, his wife is not beautiful. But I know why he married the girl who now becomes his wife (and still love her until now). Because she is an attractive woman.

Confused ?. Let me explain. Beauty is not same as attraction. Every beautiful person is attractive person. But not every attractive person is beautiful person. Like my friend's wife, she is absolutely not beautiful. But she has nice character and personality. She could make people feel comfortable talking with her, and she is always treat people nicely. It's make her becomes attractive woman. I know her since long time ago before she married. And honestly, in the past I attracted to her too :D, but my friend had comes earlier.

So, sisters who physically not beautiful do not need to worry. They can be attractive persons if they have nice character and personality. And how to raise nice character and personality ?. Like bro Murad has said, with confidence.

Is physical beauty the only attraction for woman and for man ?

:)

People say women are attracted to handsomeness. That's true, but only immature women who then impressed by handsomeness and regard handsomeness as everything. Mature women attracted to handsomeness only in one moment, in the next moment they begin to notice character and personality. And when mature women meet men who not physically handsome they will directly notice to character and personality.

For mature women, the man's main attraction is character & personality, not handsomeness.

People say men are attracted to beauty. That's true, but only immature men (and those who are looking for sex-partner only) who then impressed by beauty and regard beauty as everything. Mature men attracted to beauty only in one moment, in the next moment they begin to notice character and personality. And when mature men meet women who not physically beautiful they will directly notice to character and personality.

For mature men, the woman's main attraction is character & personality, not beauty.

[ardianto]

I hate weddings, I absolutely hate them because I think of the poor guys, the men who have been emotionally forced into spending this outrageous amount on the wedding.

I don't know a single man, you guys can dispute this if you like, I don't know a single man who cares about whether his wedding is fancy or not, whether it's the most extravagant the town has seen. But the ladies, that have to have it extravagant, no matter how extravagant it will never be extravagant enough

In the time when I and my wife was in engagement period. She told me, wedding is something that once in a life. So, she told me she wanted to get wedding party in wedding hall and invite many guests. I said "OK". She requested me too, she wanted to get honeymoon to Bali and Lombok Island. I said "OK".

Then we got our wedding. Like I have written in other post, the cost for wedding and also for honeymoon was not so expensive. But enough to buy a car. And like I have written in another thread, in Indonesia, wedding guest give money. Yes, we got money. But because many guests were from poor area where my parents in law were living, we didn't get big ammount. My wife took small amount. And the rest, the bigger amount ?. My wife requested me "May I give it to my parents ?. I said "OK".

Two years later, I lost my company, lost many treasures, and fell into bankruptcy. If I didn't spend money for wedding and honeymoon, I still had enough money to build a new company. But, did I regret having to give my wife a wedding party and honeymoon ?. No ! what had passed, let it go. The only thing in my mind was how about tomorrow and the future.

All women in the world expect marriage once in life-time only. And wedding becomes their unforgetable moment. So, is understandable if they want to get wedding party, although not always extravagant wedding party.

I know you have been married, and I know you have spent much money in your wedding party. But don't blame your wife for it. It's better if you think about tomorrow and the future. What has passed, let it go.

[jimbo123]

Confused ?. Let me explain. Beauty is not same as attraction. Every beautiful person is attractive person. But not every attractive person is beautiful.

Sorry I don't want to sound like the grammar police. I agree with everything you said in this thread. I think what you meant to say was every human is beautiful but not everyone is attractive - or what one person finds attractive won't always be the same for another person.

Now, time to work on my confidence so I can get married :)

[Who Am I?]

:sl:

After reading all of that, all I can say is, it looks like I'm going to be single for a while.

And you know what? I'm becoming OK with that...

[noorseeker]

:heated::heated::heated: aaaaaaahhhhh i need a wife

Oh sorry guys didnt see you there ;D , i meant i need a life ;D

[Riana17]

I'm loving your new smileys, where'd you get them from?

Salam Alaikkum

Sorry Sis, I dont have specific sites, but I would be happy to tell you how, I'm just googling them - pls go to google.com then images,e.g. look for 'smiley happy face', then lots would come out inshallah, in the left area you can look for ICON, size would be fit in forums like this, not too big

On the other hand, Brother's Ardianto reply is always ISLAMIC, thanks for sharing with us. Very useful for open minded people. I am glad you know how to live for future.
I am a shy person hence I didn't like any party, I am not comfortable with people making time for me, but I would be honest that it was quiet a dream for me when I was not a Muslim, now life is easier, no big dreams anymore.

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

But what about those of us who are super sexy but still can't find a wife? ^o)

I don't know man..I'm in the same situation..Ill let you know when I find a solution to this.

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

The golden rule - just in case we've forgotten and to put everything into perspective:

{Women impure are for men impure, and men impure for women impure and women of purity are for men of purity, and men of purity are for women of purity...}24:26

Most of what people say, sounds easy but putting it into practise is much more complex.

He states people need to work harder, guess what, many men already do overtime, they tons of it, who's to say the people on here, usually only on for a few minutes each day, don't work like maniacs right now? It's at a stage no matter how hard the man works, in fact the harder he works, the more he earns he'll end up more likely spending more on the wedding.

True..but I guess I was speaking more generally? Like a lot of people fantasize about marriage and how awesome it is whereas in real life they're not taking proactive steps towards it.

You say women are expensive and emotionally expensive, that is correct they are, the question is, should they be? On average my uncle's outfits cost £15-£30, perhaps an expensive shirt might cost £25, but that's for special occasions, the average suit my aunty wears costs £150 if the husbands don't spend that much on their wives, they are considered stingy/miserly. Women seriously and moreso their families, seriously seriously need to be like this, a wedding should cost around £2000 not £20000, all that money, especially in these difficult times, would help them buy a house much sooner. I hate weddings, I absolutely hate them because I think of the poor guys, the men who have been emotionally forced into spending this outrageous amount on the wedding.

I don't think the question is of whether something should or should not be - because that steps us into ideals and takes us away from reality. Reality is women are expensive, sometimes in more ways than one. She might be a simple girl, but she might require a lot of emotional investment. Or she might be financially expensive but distant emotionally. Either way, I was speaking generally.

Also from a religious perspective based on what I've understood is that a man should be able to provide for her at the very least the same level her father was providing for her. So choose your ladies wisely folks.

I totally get feeling bad for the poor guys who've been forced into that but I think its wrong to hate weddings for it. Weddings are awesome events (you can find your wife in one too!) so long as it's done in moderation.

I don't know a single man, you guys can dispute this if you like, I don't know a single man who cares about whether his wedding is fancy or not, whether it's the most extravagant the town has seen. But the ladies, that have to have it extravagant, no matter how extravagant it will never be extravagant enough. Due to the cost of my wedding, I will not be able to buy a house for a least another 3 years, had it been a simple wedding, I could have perhaps bought on within the next 4 months, at least put the deposit down for one.

I get your frustration, it's sad that it has to be that way. I completely agree, no dude really gives a pakora whether his wedding is fancy or not. He just wants it to end lol.

Women are expensive, weddings are even more expensive and they should not be.

Weddings should not be - I agree. Women - it's hard to define an entity that has grown up in certain circumstances with certain values and norms by something that is relative. What is expensive to me might not be expensive to someone who is of her financial class.

As for men and their wants. It's extremely shallow when you hear men and their mothers always asking for a "slim, fair and beautiful" girl before asking for the ones with good character. How shallow of these men to look for that. Whilst it's important to marry someone you're attracted to, you don't have to marry a supermodel, especially if you look unattractive yourself. Let's be honest, about 10-15% of the world population can be classed as physically very attractive right? So does that mean the other 80+% don't have the right to marry or they should be at the back of the queue. I have cut ties with guys who has spoken of women in such ways and I pray I don't ever think like that, even if I am blessed with children of my own.

I think you dislike their 'wants' (for a lack of better word) because of certain cultural constructs that define you and that's fine. I don't think it's shallow when a dude has preference towards a certain type of girl with certain features - that's his prerogative. It's shallow when he i)bases his entire decision on it, and ii) doesn't consider other factors.

I also think that the statistical argument you're making is not of relevance primarily because beauty and attraction are relative. You can't technically say, '10% are hot, the rest are not' - because you're using certain standards to measure beauty whereas others might not use those same standards of measurement.

Regarding the confidence thing, I think it's wonderful that many brothers lack confidence, it's a sign of their reserved and perhaps shy nature. Surely the girls should be looking for the shy boys, the ones less likely to have been mucking around with girls prior to marriage? So that she and him can grow in confidence together in married life?

You misunderstand me. Hayaa is not a lack of confidence, it is the height of confidence. The opposite of being timid. Confidence means a man that is comfortable in who he is, who know's what he wants, who can be a leader and step up and make proper decisions. Someone who is fair and yet doesn't take trash from other people. A man that makes a girl feel protected. A man can be shy but he can also be a leader. The Messenger (saw) had the most hayaa of anyone yet he was the leader and the perfect example of a confident man.

A person can gain that quality in many ways. Taking a speech class. Talking to people outside and making light conversation. Looking into people's eyes when they talk to them.

I went to a wedding once with my uncle, and the bride and the groom were family friends, the man was 36 and the bride was 34, both of them getting married for the first time. He said to me, how much better would it have been if this man married this same girl in their early 20s when they were young and beautiful, now they are both old with half their lives wasted. I have to echo the thoughts, if you're going to leave your first wedding so late, what is the point really?

Completely agree.

I think you've interpreted Muraad's idea of 'confidence' a little differently than he would have intended.

In my opinion, there's a difference between arrogant, ego-based confidence and the kind of confidence that comes about from a deep rooted conviction in something. The former is the attribute of a misguided individual whereas the latter is the idea of a person stepping up and quite literally, just 'being a man' when the need arises.

Note, however, that being confident based on conviction is not mutually exclusive with being humble and reserved/shy. Much depends on the context. There's a time to be shy and modest and there's a time to be confident.

What he said!!

I agree with alpha dude, a man without self confidence, hmmm, even if he's quite good looking, he doesn't make a popular female choice, but a confident man, no matter how plain looking, catches quite a few girls' fancies. But confidence is also something that one can work on, I've known people who used to be overtly shy at young age and have groomed themselves to be quite pleasantly confident, sans the arrogance and impoliteness. It definitely is an acquirable and admirable trait, for
both men and women.

As far as the arrogant confidence is concerned, it comes from either a sheer lack of some good parenting, or excess of it. It also comes from a deep sense of inferiority complex, and the arrogant person usually tries to overcome it by sounding super cool, sarcastic, uncaring and impolite. Such people rarely have lasting or meaningful relationships, they only worship their self, and are only concerned about their self/their feelings and their moods.

A BAD choice for marriage, such people, so all girlies out there, beware , since women really tend to get attracted to this type and realize only when its too late :p

+1!

Brother Ardianto, you have slots 2, 3 and 4 empty? ;D;D;D;D

For a second I thought a sister wrote this post! Talk about awkward!

I know this ain't directed to me but I am not ugly , I'm very good looking masAllah :statisfie ( how modest ;D)
But looks don't play the slightest part where I gather my confidence from, I have this friend who is quite pretty and she is always alwayyyyss in a looksworry :p:, Result: she spends an awful lot of time on her appearance and dressing, and has very few manners or any skills besides looking good, looks down upon people who don't wear expensive stuff and etc.

What use is the appreciation of your looks if it isn't even helping you as a person, and makes you believe in the delusional extent of the affect of your beauty on others, such an azmayesh( test) to even have good looks.

I agree! (Not with the first statement obviously because I've never seen you, but what you wrote after)

I agree with the part where you said looks isn't where confidence comes from.

My good looking friend told me "my wife is absolutely not beautiful".

That's true, his wife is not beautiful. But I know why he married the girl who now becomes his wife (and still love her until now). Because she is an attractive woman.

Confused ?. Let me explain. Beauty is not same as attraction. Every beautiful person is attractive person. But not every attractive person is beautiful person. Like my friend's wife, she is absolutely not beautiful. But she has nice character and personality. She could make people feel comfortable talking with her, and she is always treat people nicely. It's make her becomes attractive woman. I know her since long time ago before she married. And honestly, in the past I attracted to her too :D, but my friend had comes earlier.

True! I also find that many people confuse beauty with youth. Meaning they like a young girl and because she's pretty that she'll stay like that for a long time.

For mature men, the woman's main attraction is character & personality, not beauty.

True, but I really think that he'll only even try to get to know her character and personality if he's at the very least slightly attracted to her.

I firmly believe a man should find a woman he's attracted to physically first and then inquire about character, piety and personality and make decision based on the latter qualities - because men are visual creatures and he needs a lady at home that'll help him lower his gaze. One of the main reasons of marriage is intimacy and as far as I know, no dude will ever get intimate with a lady he's not attracted to. This is indicative from the Hadeeth where the Prophet (saw) commanded young men to marry because it helps in lowering the gaze - he tied marriage (cause) with lowering the gaze (effect). So, putting aside the ideal that 'if she/he is amazing in personality, deen, character, I won't care about looks ' is false. Especially for men. Most dudes have spent 20+ years seeing women they find beautiful around them and if they place a certain amount of emphasis on looks - I don't think that's being shallow, it's only shallow when that becomes the deciding factor.

[ardianto]

Now, time to work on my confidence so I can get married

But bro, if what you do in looking for a wife is choose and reject only by photo, you will never get married.

You need to meet. And you can find the attractive side of that girl, and that girl can find your attractive side.

aaaaaaahhhhh i need a wife

Oh sorry guys didnt see you there , i meant i need a life

Don't be ashamed. Want to get married is a good thing, not shameful thing.

If you want to looking for a wife but you don't know how, what you must do is tell people around you. Maybe they will laugh, but only for a moment and then they will really help you. Many people got married through this way.

And for shy guys, it's better if they can get 'active matchmaker' to help them. Different than 'passive matchmaker' who only search an information and gives that guy the girl photo. The 'active matchmaker' will gives input to the shy guy about how that girl is, what that shy guy must do. Even after they meet and the shy guy doesn't know how to start talking, the 'active matchmaker' will start it for him.

[ardianto]

True, but I really think that he'll only even try to get to know her character and personality if he's at the very least slightly attracted to her.

I firmly believe a man should find a woman he's attracted to physically first and then inquire about character, piety and personality and make decision based on the latter qualities - because men are visual creatures and he needs a lady at home that'll help him lower his gaze. One of the main reasons of marriage is intimacy and as far as I know, no dude will ever get intimate with a lady he's not attracted to. This is indicative from the Hadeeth where the Prophet (saw) commanded young men to marry because it helps in lowering the gaze - he tied marriage (cause) with lowering the gaze (effect). So, putting aside the ideal that 'if she/he is amazing in personality, deen, character, I won't care about looks ' is false. Especially for men. Most dudes have spent 20+ years seeing women they find beautiful around them and if they place a certain amount of emphasis on looks - I don't think that's being shallow, it's only shallow when that becomes the deciding factor.

Okay, I will make a confession, and I hope no one will call me shallow.

I was a 'lucky guy' when I was young. I didn't need to looking for girls but the girls were coming to me. But I avoid all of them because I didn't attracted to them. Frankly, they were not beautiful.

But beauty was not the only factor in my decision. I dated with a very attractive girl (it was happened when I far from Islam), but I stopped it because she was materialistic.

Might be I would not propose a marriage to 'girl from the south' if she was not beautiful (later she left me). And might be (although I am always deny it) one factor that made me married my wife is because she is beautiful. And might be one factor that made them accept me (although my wife always deny it while 'the girl from the south' was admitting it) was my handsomeness.

In fact, many beautiful women married handsome guys.

However, those who physically not beautiful or handsome still can be attractive, and they still can get married. Of course they cannot expect too high. Like a sister in another thread wrote "if you are not Brad Pitt, don't expect Angelina Jolie".

But I realize, beauty and handsomeness are not something that exist longer. If we stuck on these, later after our spouse grow older we will start to looking for another beautiful women. It's happened to some of my friends.

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

But you gotta realize, there will be times you'll come home to a wife that's mad or sad for no reason or is crying for no reason.

To make it easier to understand, I have decided to add in a pie chart for further clarification:

[Who Am I?]

:sl:

I used to tell girls at bars that I drink because they cry.

[Ramadhan]

I used to tell girls at bars that I drink because they cry.

Girls have soft spot for men they find "defect", their motherly instincts come to rescue ;D

[Riana17]

To make it easier to understand, I have decided to add in a pie chart for further clarification:

Salam Alaikkum

This is somehow correct, but not cry, I dont know about others but I cry once a year on average and definitely I know the reason behind and I wont ever ever cry & embarass myself in front of the others unless its too painful. I guess because I used to hard life and hence there's no room for crying alot but fight.

However the big pie is almost correct, women feels that 'strange' for no valid reason at all. We feel vulnerable & helpless sometimes even things are perfectly fine???

Allah created us like this.

alhamdollelah my husband is very good observer, he knows when i feel down & knows what to do.
He is also v.good to his sisters and mom, like last month his mom can't sleep at 2am, He said what, my mom

at 2am lool? though he felt she wants to talk & although he was very sleepy he immediately drove her at the seaside and he tried to make a conversation with her, she started to say many things and he do his business

What a man gotta do, what a man gotta do? A wise man knows the answer.

[ardianto]

Girls have soft spot for men they find "defect", their motherly instincts come to rescue

Seriously, some married men see this woman's instinct as weak point that they can utilize to get those women.

At first, those married men will approach those women as friends. And when they start to close, gradually, those married men will start to tell stories about unhappines in their marriage life because those wives treat them badly. Of course those stories actually not true.


@ sisters.
Be careful if a married man start to tell you about his 'unhappy marriage life'.

[Who Am I?]

Girls have soft spot for men they find "defect", their motherly instincts come to rescue ;D

:sl:

As always, I prove to be the exception to this rule. I have serious issues and have had them for years, and no woman would come near me. So I have to disagree with you here.

Now I don't drink and they still cry.

[SFatima]

:sl:

As always, I prove to be the exception to this rule.

( not saying it to you) In my limited observation, I think that smart/hurtful sarcasm also keeps women away...:shade: (but yes women do find friendly, light Humor very charming in men) I have noticed, that some men who are quite finicky, and extremely observant of other's flaws , and drop a few comments here or there about their women's flaws, are sure to get their women disappear fast .. Women do not take criticism from a man, so well , and that too initially, obviously in relationships once the understanding has developed, you know each other well to say/ do things which may not offend the other person, but sarcasm, doesn't go down well :mmokay: . This is one of the reasons that comes to the mind, as a very common observation....But with you reasons could be different since I don't know you, I was only sharing my very limited observation about this part of the world...:)

I do agree with the opinion, that some women do have the tendency to feel all motherly for men who've had it rough in life and have some kind of a problem, but if such men are not sweet/considerate to these women, even they will run away...:hiding:

[SFatima]

The golden rule -

Is also this hadith,(words similar) " A woman is married for 4 things, beauty, wealth & status, Family background and her deen".

It was later explained in another hadith when a sahabi asked " what if I marry a woman for her beauty?" the Prophet saw replied, " khaak alood hon ( soil in the hands) of whom, who marries a woman only for her beauty" If you marry her for her deen, Allah swt will bless your hearts with mutual love and bless your union; increase you in wealth and status and etc, but if you marry her specifically for any of her material attributes, you shall not find complete satisfaction in her." I am stating only the mafhum ( meaning of that hadith, that I read somewhere, sorry cannot give its number here)

So choose your ladies wisely folks.

And I hope wisely means, do not look for beauty features of hollywood /bollywood plastic botoxed/surgically nip tucked beauties. Men usually take their beauty cues from there and apply to it the common next door girls.

I totally get feeling bad for the poor guys who've been forced into that but I think its wrong to hate weddings for it. Weddings are awesome events (you can find your wife in one too!) so long as it's done in moderation.

hmm that sounds like a rather pakistani/indian statement .."weddings are fantastic events, they give one the opportunity to ogle at females of all kinds, who're done in layers of makeup and jewellery, in a mixed Un-islamic gathering, " could be right for some, but the best places to find good girls and boys, where you also get to know some part of their nature, are religious gatherings, and or some kind of a social work event. If, offcorse the inclination to religion does matter to one.

You misunderstand me. Hayaa is not a lack of confidence, it is the height of confidence. The opposite of being timid. Confidence means a man that is comfortable in who he is, who know's what he wants, who can be a leader and step up and make proper decisions. Someone who is fair and yet doesn't take trash from other people. A man that makes a girl feel protected. A man can be shy but he can also be a leader. The Messenger (saw) had the most hayaa of anyone yet he was the leader and the perfect example of a confident man.

Agree very much here.

True, but I really think that he'll only even try to get to know her character and personality if he's at the very least slightly attracted to her.

true for men. Most, infact all girls who dress up nicely, keep themselves well groomed and all, look nice to men, but then again beauty doesn't last for long, might be very important for a man who is getting married for the first time. But it is just awful to see that some of my Most beautiful friends( by all standards of holly/bolly :p:) are the most unhappiest ones, and these are those, who go an extra mile in taking care of themselves and their families. Too sad, they had to marry those men who were all like puppy dawgs before marriage and now don't have the time or the courtesy to even spare them a nice glance.

Like I said earlier, if you choose a man because he is in love with your beauty,( and is not a sensible religiously inclined person) be prepared to skulk all your life when his eyes wander; since beauty is highly relative, if you get what you want, your eyes start to want something different/even better. Like my friend's husband used to like this well known model's looks and married her( she is still quite good looking and all), and now he hates thin, well kept women and is always found admiring/ogling, eastern looking, homely, more rounded women who don't have that model attitude :p: and for the life of her she cant gain weight.( I have learnt a great deal from people's successes/lack of successes, from around me :D)

I firmly believe a man should find a woman he's attracted to physically first and then inquire about character, piety and personality and make decision based on the latter qualities - because men are visual creatures and he needs a lady at home that'll help him lower his gaze. One of the main reasons of marriage is intimacy and as far as I know, no dude will ever get intimate with a lady he's not attracted to. This is indicative from the Hadeeth where the Prophet (saw) commanded young men to marry because it helps in lowering the gaze - he tied marriage (cause) with lowering the gaze (effect). So, putting aside the ideal that 'if she/he is amazing in personality, deen, character, I won't care about looks ' is false. Especially for men. Most dudes have spent 20+ years seeing women they find beautiful around them and if they place a certain amount of emphasis on looks - I don't think that's being shallow, it's only shallow when that becomes the deciding factor.

MAybe true for some to not consider beauty that much, but not true for some as well. There are a few men in my observation who were fine looking themselves and did not require so much beauty in a woman and have really plain looking wives who have good natures and personalities, and they have MashAllah quite good relations. Such a man may appreciate looks of another nicer looking female, but granted that he isn't charmed out of his wits to pursue her just because of her beauty, I guess very few men are like that, perhaps only the strong warrior types.

But for someone who is looks conscious enough, should go for something that is very pleasing to his eyes. Also Brothers should match the looks of their sisters with their potential spouses,in the sense that if other people see/hear of this brother with an exceptionally beautiful wife, who has a normal attractive/plain looking sister, other men will pass over their sister too and get the message that beauty is, infact 'the" real deal..

We don't (usually :p:) hate our mothers and sisters for their looks, neither do we appreciate them more just because they are beautiful, they have to be nice to us for us to develop the love and respect for them, same goes for our friends, we don't choose our friends for their looks, neither do they stick around us for our looks, so yes personalities do play a bigger role than most of us initially realize. A person who works on his personality,(from the religion's point of view) also usually works on their entire persona/ image ,so they usaully are attractive people, inside and out.

I do think, however, that most men's perception of beauty is rather severely skewed, esp religious men. ( they expect hoors in this world in reward for keeping their gaze lower, that can also mean that pretty women can also expect Palaces, ferraris, expensive gowns and rare jewels in return for their acceptance of a spouse. No?) I don't think that the current situation of the Ummah favors such a trend. There is enough fitnah out there, and enough divorces, of nicer looking people, mind you. So yes, choose wisely :)

May All brothers and sisters find the best suitable matches soon aammeen .

[SFatima]

:sl:

After reading all of that, all I can say is, it looks like I'm going to be single for a while.

And you know what? I'm becoming OK with that...

Lol I think you are getting scared of marriage, really it can't be that horrible, better than being lonely, all that drama really gives you a lot to be active about, adds a lot more joys to your list :p: and also gives you somebody around to cook nice stuff for you :D . How good it is for men to get married , count your blessings, not fears. Marriage is sunnah, if you think great about yourself people will sense the same about you inshAllah. :) ( Im not married but I sure seem to have all those palaces, cupcakes, fairies and chirping birds in my dreams :D)

To make it easier to understand, I have decided to add in a pie chart for further clarification:

Actually the "???" is this pie chart is about men not working towards finding out why women cry, and rather just watch tv or a game :p:. I have never seen a woman who cries just like that. Although there could be some, but I am glad I haven't come across them, so much crying, hmmm annoying, probably they have a deeper disorder..? I have heard of such a girl though, but she had psychological issues because of child abuse, so that was a serious case, which needs a lot of support indeed.

Apart from that, religious women are fairly strong, usually , if they haven't been pampered ostentatiously enough to cry at the drop of a handkerchief. But I do feel women are emotionally sensitive, what hurts a woman may never hurt a man, but thats why women get hurt because Allah swt probably(definitely) wants men to empathize and work towards developing some sensitivity towards women that they usually lack, and women should learn some from men and adopt some immunity from emotions that the men have, and thus sit and laugh when the man impatiently asks for food :p: lol That might teach them how we feel :D

[kingkong]

Do men really make the fuss about the girl being beautiful or is it the families? I thought it was both families who made these statements???

[ardianto]

I used to tell girls at bars that I drink because they cry.

As always, I prove to be the exception to this rule. I have serious issues and have had them for years, and no woman would come near me. So I have to disagree with you here.

Now I don't drink and they still cry.

:sl:

As human beings, women must also have a feeling of sadness that makes them want to cry. And as social creature women also need someone who can listen to them, someone who could be a place sharing what in their hearts, someone who could be a shoulder to cry on.

Many men know about it, and some men see it as an opportunity to get sympathy from those women. Then they come to a woman, offer sympathy and hope she will then give sympathy as well, and eventually love. But they forget, what a woman need in this moment is someone who can be a friend who does not expect anything from her.

Of course, if someone comes to the bar, offer a sympathy to a crying woman and shows a 'hopeful face' to get her, she will regard this man as an alien from Planet Zog who tries to take advantage of opportunity. And she will not give a response, of course. :D

Just kidding. :)

And woman determine who can be a friend for sharing. She will not choose a man who expect something from her, and she will not choose a stranger. But she will choose a man who can be a best friend who does not expect anything from her. What she need in a time like this is just friendship. Uniquely, then usually she will fall in love with this man.

But what brother Ramadhan said is different. that is "motherly", an instinct that every woman has although in different level. Motherly is an instinct that makes women feel they need to do something to someone who close to them.

There is a time when a woman need someone to listen to her crying, there is a time when the motherly makes a woman feel she need to rescue someone who close to her. But these times will never come simultaneously.

Relationship between me and my wife was started from friendship like this. But I do not suggest brothers who want to marry to follow my story. And actually, husband and wife can be a couple of best friend.

[ardianto]

Do men really make the fuss about the girl being beautiful or is it the families? I thought it was both families who made these statements???

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If those families make statement, this girl is beautiful, but in the eye of the guy who will marry, this girl is not beautiful, this girl still not beautiful and not automatically being beautiful.

But, why you ask about it ?.

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

hmm that sounds like a rather pakistani/indian statement .."weddings are fantastic events, they give one the opportunity to ogle at females of all kinds, who're done in layers of makeup and jewellery, in a mixed Un-islamic gathering, " could be right for some, but the best places to find good girls and boys, where you also get to know some part of their nature, are religious gatherings, and or some kind of a social work event. If, offcorse the inclination to religion does matter to one.
Agree very much here.

Not necessarily..every single single-guy I know, religious or otherwise, if he's invited to a wedding keeps an eye out just in case he finds a girl he likes, even if the set up at the wedding is for the most part separate. It's a good place to find one. How is that wrong? It's simply an avenue for him to find a wife. If a person is seriously looking to get married, he's allowed to look as per the hadeeth of Jaabir (ra) anyway.

[kingkong]

Not necessarily..every single single-guy I know, religious or otherwise, if he's invited to a wedding keeps an eye out just in case he finds a girl he likes, even if the set up at the wedding is for the most part separate. It's a good place to find one. How is that wrong? It's simply an avenue for him to find a wife. If a person is seriously looking to get married, he's allowed to look as per the hadeeth of Jaabir (ra) anyway.

I'd agree that it's an excellent place to find a partner, but not yourself, but your family. For example a guy's female relatives will be in female company and they can spot young girls who are suitable and they think would be nice for their son to marry. It's probably less so with men, since men aren't like women in that nature. My dad had 0 say and wanted 0 say in who his sons marry, not to say he doesn't care, but he feels it's a lady's job. One of my brother's wives was found in a family wedding 5 years ago, my mum saw her and during the wedding process ended up asking the girl's mum and 4 days later it was pretty much done and dusted.

[ardianto]

There are two things in marriage that all brothers must know.

- Man doesn't need wali. He is not under guardianship of anyone. It's mean, man who ready to marry considered as an adult man, not a boy, which he make his own decision and bear his responsibility.

- Nikah is a process when the wali gives a woman who under his guardianship to a man who marry this woman. Then this woman is under her husband guardianship.


Marriage need huge responsibility, and the husband will not able to bear this responsibility if he is still "A Boy".

So, if you want to get married, at first you should turn yourself into "A Man". And you must ready to take all responsibilities in marriage without depend on your parents. Don't ever thinking if your wife doesn't cook, your mom will do it for you. Everything that happen in your family is your responsibility to handle it. Remember, the Imam in your family is you, not your parents.

There is tradition in my society. In nikah procession, the parents gives the groom and bride 'the last food'. This is a symbol, after nikah, the husband and wife should build an independent family. And they must take decision and bear responsibility by themselves.

[Who Am I?]

Lol I think you are getting scared of marriage, really it can't be that horrible, better than being lonely, all that drama really gives you a lot to be active about, adds a lot more joys to your list and also gives you somebody around to cook nice stuff for you . How good it is for men to get married , count your blessings, not fears. Marriage is sunnah, if you think great about yourself people will sense the same about you inshAllah. ( Im not married but I sure seem to have all those palaces, cupcakes, fairies and chirping birds in my dreams )

:sl:

You know.. I had another sister just last week tell me the same thing, that I'm just scared of marriage. Well, I have been alone my whole life. It is what I am used to. So yeah, maybe the idea of being with someone for the rest of my life is a little intimidating.

But there's still those annoying self-improvement issues that I have to deal with too.

[Predator]

Looks like many are suffering from the degree syndrome spoken about in the below video . Get a thermometer ,its loaded with degrees

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmQY-j7cG2k

[ardianto]

Have we come to a conclusion yet

Conclusion : Different place,... different culture

In my place

Although exist, arranged marriage is uncommon. The parents role is only find and introduced someone to their children. But decision to marry or not to marry taken by the children themselves.

Lack of money is not great barrier for men. Many women here have a far view into the future. Those women know, if a young man has small income, it's because he is still in his early stage of career. As long as he has good motivation and responsibility to build a better future, a woman will marry him.

Wedding cost is not scary thing. Many women do not mind if their wedding are only small wedding with low budget. Of course, parents who prefer extravagant wedding are exist in Indonesia too. But extravagant wedding cost is not the groom's problem because extravagant wedding costs paid by the parents. Not only by the groom's parents, often by the bride's parents, but usually by parents from both families.

Mahr not in high amount. Main mahr usually Qur'an, sajada, and mukena (salah cloth for woman), money is only complimentary. Women do not need to request big mahr because they know, after married they can request anything from the husbands.

Not different than in 'another place'. Indonesian mothers prefer to have beautiful daughters in law. But Indonesian fathers advice their sons with "Beauty is not important. The main factor in choosing a wife is character. Choose women who have good character. Beauty is just a bonus".


PS : That's why I asked " Is beauty important ?" in another post. Because I am Indonesian father. :D

[Salahudeen]

Conclusion : Different place,... different culture

In my place

Although exist, arranged marriage is uncommon. The parents role is only find and introduced someone to their children. But decision to marry or not to marry taken by the children themselves.

Lack of money is not great barrier for men. Many women here have a far view into the future. Those women know, if a young man has small income, it's because he is still in his early stage of career. As long as he has good motivation and responsibility to build a better future, a woman will marry him.

Wedding cost is not scary thing. Many women do not mind if their wedding are only small wedding with low budget. Of course, parents who prefer extravagant wedding are exist in Indonesia too. But extravagant wedding cost is not the groom's problem because extravagant wedding costs paid by the parents. Not only by the groom's parents, often by the bride's parents, but usually by parents from both families.

Mahr not in high amount. Main mahr usually Qur'an, sajada, and mukena (salah cloth for woman), money is only complimentary. Women do not need to request big mahr because they know, after married they can request anything from the husbands.

Not different than in 'another place'. Indonesian mothers prefer to have beautiful daughters in law. But Indonesian fathers advice their sons with "Beauty is not important. The main factor in choosing a wife is character. Choose women who have good character. Beauty is just a bonus".


PS : That's why I asked " Is beauty important ?" in another post. Because I am Indonesian father. :D

I'm coming to live in Indonesia inshaAllah :omg:

[SFatima]

Not necessarily..every single single-guy I know, religious or otherwise, if he's invited to a wedding keeps an eye out just in case he finds a girl he likes, even if the set up at the wedding is for the most part separate. It's a good place to find one. How is that wrong? It's simply an avenue for him to find a wife. If a person is seriously looking to get married, he's allowed to look as per the hadeeth of Jaabir (ra) anyway.

Yeah well I guess that proves how looks oriented most men are, but thankfully Alhamdulilah my brother isn't like that, and he trusts his sisters and mother to choose for him without having to resort to lay his eyes on all the na mahram chicks out there. I understand it is allowed for men to have a glance at women first, but I am not sure if the intent of that glance is always marriage and if that permission is being used true to its spirit....

My brother says (via scholarly references) that in Islam its not allowed to just select girls based entirely on their looks and then later find out about their families and etc. Seeing girls was allowed, After the intent of marrying the girl of a certain family was seriously made, and when the women of the man's family had approved the girl for her looks, and even when men wish to see her, women have to have their hair and body covered and have their mahram guardian present there.

He thinks its demeaning and disrespectful to choose girls out from such a function where they are all dressed up and makes him feel like they're all commodities in a market, he'd rather choose from among girls that our families personally know rather than pick out randomly from a set of complete strangers who you choose entirely for their outward appearances. (he's quite a handsome, isn't he :D)

But yes, since societies and communities are not entirely practising Islam, this is one of the ways they are going to choose girls, the other way is dating. So I guess I'm out of both since I don't like going to lavish weddings, mixed up functions and all, it feels so fake and hypocritical to compromise your purdah for such functions, and plus I'm too charming so I have to guard my charm from men who are slaves to their nafs. :p: ( okk kidding, no more modesty :p:)

Anyhow different people think differently, Even I don't like looking at random men to choose one for myself, I don't understand how religious men give themselves the liberty to plant their gazes on every woman who passes them by, what is the whole meaning of lowering your gaze if this is what you're going to do, whats the whole point? Some Men adopt cultural influences where it seems to feed their Nafs(desires), and discourage the same influences when the culture does not cater to their wants. I know several men who wanted to choose girls like that for themselves,( the prettiest of the lot) and 20 years later, the thought of presenting their daughters all dressed up infront of strange men really infuriates their ghairat, their sense of pride.. One sad scenario of the same hypocritical society.

[kingkong]

Alhamdulilah my brother isn't like that, and he trusts his sisters and mother to choose for him

he'd rather choose from among girls that our families personally know rather than pick out randomly from a set of complete strangers who you choose entirely for their outward appearances.

Firstly, your brother is very wise to let your mother choose, but very unwise to let his sisters ie you get involved. I would urge this brother to seek the sensible knowledge of his parents, especially his mother and father, then the aunties, grand mother etc and to not listen to an iota of information provided by siblings.

Secondly about your comment strangers in weddings, what kind of nonsense is this? Do you deny that most of the people in weddings will know each others, since it's relatives and family friends? All that happens is you see someone who's grown up, well if done in a halal way, it's perfect opportunity for a mother to find a bride. The mother can see the girl, who she may not have seen before, but have seen the mother, or perhaps she hasn't see the girl in several years since the last family wedding. It's perfectly healthy provided there is segregation. and none of the laws of Sharia are broken.

You have a very negative view on a lot of things.

[SFatima]

Firstly, your brother is very wise to let your mother choose, but very unwise to let his sisters ie you get involved. I would urge this brother to seek the sensible knowledge of his parents, especially his mother and father, then the aunties, grand mother etc and to not listen to an iota of information provided by siblings.

Secondly about your comment strangers in weddings, what kind of nonsense is this? Do you deny that most of the people in weddings will know each others, since it's relatives and family friends? All that happens is you see someone who's grown up, well if done in a halal way, it's perfect opportunity for a mother to find a bride. The mother can see the girl, who she may not have seen before, but have seen the mother, or perhaps she hasn't see the girl in several years since the last family wedding. It's perfectly healthy provided there is segregation. and none of the laws of Sharia are broken.
You have a very negative view on a lot of things.

uhh Mr.kk it is rather you who seems a tad bit too paranoid and mistrusting of your siblings, can't blame them either , but dude you really seem to have some awfully negative vibes about people so close to you, if thats how you feel for them, can't say why they feel so 'at ease' to return you the same flavour of sibling rivalry. :haha:

And secondly, we don't use the word " NON SENSE" here in sharing our opinions, If you continue with your blatant misuse of raw unwelcoming rude drivel, I'm sorry we're going to have to report your posts for inciting un-required ill sentiment among the forum members. Either learn to talk respectfully, or join some bash forums where you're conversation skills are more sought after, thanks. :)

[kingkong]

uhh Mr.kk it is rather you who seems a tad bit too paranoid and mistrusting of your siblings, can't blame them either , but dude you really seem to have some awfully negative vibes about people so close to you, if thats how you feel for them, can't say why they feel so 'at ease' to return you the same flavour of sibling rivalry. :haha:

And secondly, we don't use the word " NON SENSE" here in sharing our opinions, If you continue with your blatant misuse of raw unwelcoming rude drivel, I'm sorry we're going to have to report your posts for inciting un-required ill sentiment among the forum members. Either learn to talk respectfully, or join some bash forums where you're conversation skills are more sought after, thanks. :)

I think you are the one who needs to read what others write and treat it with more respect. I said you shouldn't listen to one iota of information provided by sibglings. That's got absolutely nothing to do with trust. If it was an issue with trust, why would I say trust the elders specifically? Are elders mroe trustworthy?

The reason why you shouldn't listen to your siblings is because they have not experienced life properly. In fact what do you know about married life? What do you know about the responsibilities and what forms a successful marriage, do you have the experience? This is where people need to listen to their parents and grand parents and tell their sisters and brothers to save their "advice" for their own kids or when they've got several years of marriage experience.

For some inexplicable reason you seem to think I suggested you shouldn't listen to yoru siblings about marriage matters because they are evil or untrustworthy, this is where you should take your own advice and reason carefully and contribute properly. Go ahead and report me, why threaten only?

It is nonsense, because you mention weddings involving strangers, what rubbish is this? 90+ % of guests at a wedding are relatives and close family friends. You don't invite strangers to weddings do you? You invite guests who you know.

[ardianto]

Why people can't get married ?

In Indonesia. For men : Lack of confidence.
Common marriage in Indonesia is marriage which the men search and choose women by themselves. But some men feel they are not worthy for women. Maybe because they think they are ugly, or their character is disliked by women, or other reason. It's makes them afraid to looking for a wife. In case like this usually people around them try to help them with introduce them to women who are looking for husband. But their lack of confidence and feeling as 'unworthy' person makes them refuse those help.

In Indonesia. For women : Nobody propose marriage.
Women are in position that wait for men who will propose a marriage. But if nobody wants to propose marriage to them ?. However, in many cases, those women received marriage proposal, but they refuse it and wait for the next man who never comes.

[Ghazalah]

The reason why you shouldn't listen to your siblings is because they have not experienced life properly.

Dude, the word sibling does not entail only younger brothers or sisters, it can mean elder ones too. So in essence they're more experienced then you are if they are older.

In fact what do you know about married life? What do you know about the responsibilities and what forms a successful marriage, do you have the experience

You know nothing about the sister, for all you know she can be older than your parents with kids same age as you. No need to get personal. Tone down a little, should do you some good. :D

[ardianto]

In fact what do you know about married life? What do you know about the responsibilities and what forms a successful marriage

I know how you treat your wife and how is your concept about responsibilities and form of successful marriage.

As a man who have been married for 17 years, let me tell you, you don't know anything about building a family.

[Salahudeen]

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popc orn: who wants some pop corn

['Abd Al-Maajid]

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popc orn:

Let me have some popcorn too, it's getting interesting here, no? :p
:popcorn::popcorn:

[Salahudeen]

Let me have some popcorn too, it's getting interesting here, no? :p
:popcorn::popcorn:

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn: *throws pop corn at abd al majid* how long do you think untill they close the thread? think we'll see a few rounds first? :popcorn:

['Abd Al-Maajid]

LOL. I see we have much time to follow this thread. Without Br. Ardianto's posts this thread is just a spam central to me...:p No Offence to anyone. We are stretching this thread like a bubble gum. :D

[Salahudeen]

LOL. I see we have much time to follow this thread. Without Br. Ardianto's posts this thread is just a spam central to me...:p No Offence to anyone. We are stretching this thread like a bubble gum. :D

LOL just sit back and have some popcorn and enjoy :popcorn:

[Riana17]

I like honest people, keep it coming :D

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

As'Salaam Alaaykum

I believe this thread has fullfilled it's purpose as i believe the OP's Question has been answered, and now its slightly going off topic..Thread CLOSED! so please move on inshaa'Allaah..

:threadclo

*how i wish i was a mod/adminator* :-\

[Salahudeen]

As'Salaam Alaaykum

I believe this thread has fullfilled it's purpose as i believe the OP's Question has been answered, and now its slightly going off topic..Thread CLOSED! so please move on to a more beneficial topic..

:threadclo

*how i wish i was a mod/adminator* :-\

;D you fooled me :threadclo:><: this is a waste of webserver space i think this thread will be deleted :hmm:

['Abd Al-Maajid]

No, this has not served the purpose yet! What do I have to do?! :p

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

I believe the purpose of thread's been fulfilled. If you want to discuss something else create a new thread..A fresh new positive start would be great inshaa'Allaah..

*waits patiently for thread to be locked up*

jazakallaahu Khaayr.

[Salahudeen]

I believe the purpose of thread's been fulfilled. If you want to discuss something else create a new thread..A fresh new positive start would be great inshaa'Allaah..

*waits patiently for thread to be locked up*

jazakallaahu Khaayr.

Look at this wanna be moderator ;D

[Ghazalah]

Look at this wanna be moderator

Wannabe?? Dude, if Jewel was an admin/mod this forum would be kicked into shape immediately. (Not saying it's not in shape or anything :embarrass )

My Cue to leave now. :peace:

[Riana17]

Salam Alaikkum

I propose to give serious warning to Mr Kingkong

[kingkong]

Salam Alaikkum

I propose to give serious warning to Mr Kingkong

Waslaam.

I'm not surprised at this comment. A warning with not change my opinions or the way I type. I will continue to produce quality, intelligent and serious posts in the same way. If I end up banned, then it will be your loss more than mine.

[Who Am I?]

:sl:

I'm coming to live in Indonesia inshaAllah :omg:

Save some room on the plane for me, dude. After reading about all of those available women, I'm there, man. Sounds like comedy theater. A white American dude and an English Pakistani/Indian dude looking for wives in Indonesia. ;D

I know how you treat your wife and how is your concept about responsibilities and form of successful marriage.

As a man who have been married for 17 years, let me tell you, you don't know anything about building a family.

Dude, I love this guy kk. He reminds me of how I used to be. Young and angry and not afraid to show it. This guy knows how to stir the pot. Every thread he is ends up in an argument. Seriously, I don't think the guy can possibly really believe the stuff he posts. I think he does it just to get you guys going.

Remember, don't feed the trolls, kids.

Waslaam.

I'm not surprised at this comment. A warning with not change my opinions or the way I type. I will continue to produce quality, intelligent and serious posts in the same way. If I end up banned, then it will be your loss more than mine.

Err... on second thought...

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popc orn: who wants some pop corn

Got butter on that?

[kingkong]

I know how you treat your wife and how is your concept about responsibilities and form of successful marriage.

As a man who have been married for 17 years, let me tell you, you don't know anything about building a family.

Firstly, I'd like to point out that I'm not married yet, so how you know how I treat a wife to whom I'm not married to yet, well that's a bit like me saying I know what you and Santa Clause discuss over breakfast.

Secondly, you're right, I know nothing about marriage or building a family spot on, which is why I let the elders, elders as in my parents, aunties and uncles and grandparents run the show.

You've been married for 17 years, that's terrific and may you blessed with many many more years together in this life and the next, but I don't see how that ties in with any of what I said earlier.

I think you might be referring to the comment I made about siblings keeping QUIET when it comes to marriage and letting the elders in the family handle things, in which case what is wrong with this statement? Surely the parents are in the best seat to decide what is best for their child and not a siblings who is not even married or has only been married a for a few years at max?

[kingkong]

Dude, I love this guy kk. He reminds me of how I used to be. Young and angry and not afraid to show it. This guy knows how to stir the pot. Every thread he is ends up in an argument. Seriously, I don't think the guy can possibly really believe the stuff he posts. I think he does it just to get you guys going.

Remember, don't feed the trolls, kids.

I am not young, today was actually my 26th birthday. I am now an old man, I am ashamed of what my life is, a 26 yr old and still not married, though that will change this December, it's still pathetic on my part, 26 and unmarried, I ask myself why did I leave marriage till I was old and ugly and I promise you, at 26 I physically much much uglier than I was when I was 20, and that is the age I should have married.

As for being angry, I'm not angry, I'm as calm as the sea breeze on a summer night. I don't come here to stir up anything, nor am I a troll. I am merely a middle aged man who is expressing his views, views which seem to hit very sensitive nerves on other people.