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MSalman
09-14-2011, 03:06 PM
Reports indicate a rise in sexual abuse of Iraqi women following the US-led invasion of the country in 2003, saying female trafficking has become a growing business.

In her article, published by Inter Press Service (IPS) news agency on August 27, Rebecca Murray noted how prostitution and sex trafficking have become “epidemic in Iraq” during the post-invasion military occupation of the country by US-led forces.

In the past eight years, the country has been witnessing unrelenting violence and deadly terror attacks which smashed “national institutions, impoverished the population and torn apart families and neighborhoods.”

"Wars and conflicts, wherever they are fought, invariably usher in sickeningly high level of violence against women and girls," Murray cited an Amnesty International statement as saying.

The article told the story of Rania, who fell victim of Iraqi officials' sexual assault at 16, during a 1991 brutal crackdown on Iraq's Shia south by executed dictator Saddam Hussein.

Outcast Rania escaped to Baghdad and ended up as a sex trafficker's deputy after living and working in Baghdad's brothels for a while.

She describes female trafficking a lucrative business in Iraq, saying many virgin teenage girls are sold for around 5,000 dollars, and trafficked to destinations like northern Iraq, Syria and the United Arab Emirates.

After being arrested six years ago by US forces on charges of abetting terrorism, Rania was sent to jail in Baghdad's al-Kadimiyah detention and finally ended up as an undercover researcher for a women support group she got to know in prison.

In one of her harrowing findings, Rania and two other girls discovered a house in Baghdad's al-Jihad district, where girls as young as 16 were held to cater exclusively to the US military personnel.

The brothel's owner told Rania that an Iraqi interpreter employed by the Americans served as the dealer, transporting girls to and from the US airport base.

Before the Persian Gulf War in 1991, Iraq enjoyed the highest female literacy rate across the Middle East, and more Iraqi women were employed in skilled professions, like medicine and education, than in any other country in the region.

Norwegian Church Aid report last year highlighted “the US-led war and the chaos it has generated” among other factors giving rise to mounting prostitution in Iraq.
Source

Ya Allah! This is what they have done to our sisters. May Allah protect the blood, honour and wealth of Muslims. May Allah destroy these kuffaar & their allies and throw them in lowest part of hell, ameen.
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Ramadhan
09-14-2011, 03:35 PM
Well, This is how The US is trying to "liberate" iraqi women and empower them, no?

the US govt and military know very well that these iraqi women just cannot wait to sell their bodies and really enjoy dehumanising themselves for few dollars. so hooray!

Maybe the iraqi women shouldn't charge the US military personnels since they've built schools and roads and this is the least they can thank the liberators.

(just in case anyone got upset, it's sarcasm because I couldn't express how sick it all is)
Reply

Who Am I?
09-14-2011, 04:20 PM
:sl:

I..... don't know what to say.

I am ashamed to call myself an American.
Reply

Asiyah3
09-14-2011, 05:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by King of Nines
:sl:

I..... don't know what to say.

I am ashamed to call myself an American.
:wa:

Please don't be. Every nationality has good and bad people in it.
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Who Am I?
09-14-2011, 06:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Asiyah3
:wa:

Please don't be. Every nationality has good and bad people in it.
:sl:

I know this, but lately I find myself more and more at odds with who I used to be. I find myself ashamed to be born where I was. I've always said that I was born in the wrong century and now I think maybe I was born in the wrong place as well...
Reply

GuestFellow
09-14-2011, 08:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by King of Nines
:sl:

I..... don't know what to say.

I am ashamed to call myself an American.
:wa:

No need to be ashamed. You did nothing wrong. Nationality has nothing to do with this either.
Reply

MartyrX
09-14-2011, 09:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by King of Nines
:sl:

I know this, but lately I find myself more and more at odds with who I used to be. I find myself ashamed to be born where I was. I've always said that I was born in the wrong century and now I think maybe I was born in the wrong place as well...
It's not your fault though. It's like us, Muslims always apologizing for 9/11, but we weren't responsible for it.
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Abz2000
09-14-2011, 09:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by JeffX
It's not your fault though. It's like us, Muslims always apologizing for 9/11, but we weren't responsible for it.
he is a Muslim.
and he hates the deed and speaks out against it,

the Prophet (pbuh) is reported to have said:

whoever sees an evil deed should stop it with his hand,
if he cannot, he should stop it with his tongue (ie. try to convince them to stop / speak against it to the community )
if he cannot, he should stop it with his heart (and pray to God Almighty from deep down and hate the deed)
and that is the weakest part of faith.

the brother has hated it, and speaks against it, making him better than many, but we all have shortcomings and obstacles, maybe a day will come when he's well grounded in knowledge and able to discern, and is in a position to forcefully prevent it from happening like 'Umar (ra) did when he became a leader of the community.

you have a lot to be ashamed of and so do we all, myself included, not just people of American origin but people of this earth, in that we have not yet established justice in the land so that this sort of thing can never happen.
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Who Am I?
09-14-2011, 10:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by JeffX
It's not your fault though. It's like us, Muslims always apologizing for 9/11, but we weren't responsible for it.
:sl:

There was a time in my life when I was ashamed to be white as well. I bought into the whole "apologist for slavery" movement. I tried to adopt another race for my own, and of course that was never going to work. I was never going to be accepted into that community no matter how much of their language I knew at the time.

The real problem was that I hated myself and so I was an easy target for that mentality. These days I have more confidence and awareness, and so I am less apt to fall victim to that kind of propaganda.

That being said, I do get annoyed and angry sometimes when I get targeted (unfairly) because of my race and religion. I never owned any slaves. I am never going to own any slaves. It happened 200 years ago. Get over it already.

So apparently I am a traitor to the white race now too because I adopted "that Arab religion".

I'll take that one. I'd rather be a man without a country now anyway...
Reply

MartyrX
09-14-2011, 10:25 PM
I understand hating the deed and speaking out against it. But we shouldn't be apologizing for it. Those men took and twisted Islam and used it for horrible reasons. Just as some Americans are doing as well. Our occupation is horrible, and we should speak out against it. We should raise awareness of the situation at hand. However we shouldn't feel ashamed of something we don't have immediate control over.
Reply

GuestFellow
09-14-2011, 10:28 PM
^ Waliakumsalaam,

I have noticed there has been an increase of racism towards white people from ethnic minorities. It makes me sick because it is seen as culturally acceptable from my experience.

Anyway, people have always used past suffering to their advantage. The Israeli government uses the holocaust to justify their mistreatment of Palestinians.

I just hope Muslims do not end up like that and use past sufferings to their advantage.
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Who Am I?
09-14-2011, 10:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
^ Waliakumsalaam,

I have noticed there has been an increase of racism towards white people from ethnic minorities. It makes me sick because it is seen as culturally acceptable from my experience.

Anyway, people have always used past suffering to their advantage. The Israeli government uses the holocaust to justify their mistreatment of Palestinians.

I just hope Muslims do not end up like that and use past sufferings to their advantage.
:sl:

I have actually met minorities who have told me that they can't be racist. This justifies their attitude because "I can't be racist. I'm black/brown/Asian."

Wait a minute. If we're all equal (as you all claim to be whenever white people insult you), then either we're all racist or we're all not. There is no picking and choosing who is racist and who isn't.

This is just another reason I am the Angry White Guy. I despise racism in all forms just as I despise political correctness and justification of reverse racism.

That is a lovely sig cake, btw.
Reply

جوري
09-14-2011, 10:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by King of Nines
That is a lovely sig cake, btw.
I don't know it isn't my favorite.. and I am fasting today it failed to excite me.. prefer a lady M crepe with a sharp cup of joe for today

Reply

GuestFellow
09-14-2011, 11:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by King of Nines
:sl:

I have actually met minorities who have told me that they can't be racist. This justifies their attitude because "I can't be racist. I'm black/brown/Asian."

Wait a minute. If we're all equal (as you all claim to be whenever white people insult you), then either we're all racist or we're all not. There is no picking and choosing who is racist and who isn't.

This is just another reason I am the Angry White Guy. I despise racism in all forms just as I despise political correctness and justification of reverse racism.

That is a lovely sig cake, btw.
:wa:

Those people don't know what racism means. Again they are playing the victim and using past sufferings to justify their argument. It's pretty pathetic.

I find positive discrimination even more annoying and dumb.

I love this cake too!!!
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Abz2000
09-14-2011, 11:26 PM
but then we must understand that people not well grounded in knowledge do tend to push back in irrational ways,
i was guilty of it myself, i was only about 20 back then (10 years ago),
i would see all this hate on the tvand leaflets through the door from bnp etc while at the same time the media was heavily pushing the anti-Muslim thing.
it enraged me despite not being a practising Muslim (rather far from it) and i began to hate all whites,
and because my main source of Islam was the bbc who made it out that it's a virtue for Muslims to blow up innocents and apologists on tv who said people resisting illegal occupation were extremists, i began to feel that these 9/11 type attacks were justified (i didn't know it was a false flag event at the time, or that Islam forbade the killing of innocents - i just disagreed with the bbc and thought if they're against it - it must be right, or if they're for it - it must be wrong - nor was i too aware of reverse psychology).
i remember being ready to call white people any type of name and look for a fight - simply because i didn't have a solid basis of thinking and was just pushing back,
well all that changed when i started reading the Quran at 23.

brother malcolm x is another example of how this type of thinking develops,
he went on pilgrimage and changed totally.
his words provoke thought

Reply

MSalman
09-15-2011, 12:13 AM
Can we please not divert from the topic? Jazak Allah khayran

format_quote Originally Posted by King of Nines
:sl:

I..... don't know what to say.

I am ashamed to call myself an American.
wa'alaykum as-salaam wa rahmatullahi wa baraktuhu

My beloved brother, you're a Muslim now so why are you ashamed? What do you, as a Muslim, have to do with being an American? Why are you associating yourself with these kuffaar and oppressors? Just because you happen to be born in America, it doesn't mean you are somehow associated with American nation state or such. Once you entered Islam, you left all that jahliya behind. When you entered Islam, now the dividing line isn't America vs Middle East etc anymore rather dividing line is Kuffaar vs Muslims. Now, as a Muslim, you should be proud of yourself and angry about the state of the Muslims and make dua'a for them and make dua's against their oppressors. You need to stop thinking like a nationalist and start thinking like a Muslim. A Muslim has no nation state and his allegiance, loyalty, respect, honour, shame, etc. lies with Islam & Muslims. May Allah help you learn these important aspects of tawheed & aqeedah and keep you steadfast, ameen.
Reply

جوري
09-15-2011, 12:18 AM
^^ exactly .. it isn't like there are any places on earth free of oppression of Muslims or the poor in general..
Asad is forcing little children to kneel to him in prayer and when they don't, they torture and kill them.. one little boy spit on his image, I am so impressed with the courage this new generation has that we could only dream of.. sob7an Allah.. I pray the world is changing for the better but I have my doubts imsad that it is...
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MSalman
09-15-2011, 12:22 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by JeffX
It's not your fault though. It's like us, Muslims always apologizing for 9/11, but we weren't responsible for it.
that's a sign of defeatist mind. No Muslim should be apologizing for what happened on 9/11. But then we have bunch of "moderate" Muslims who want to appease the kuffaar, become their friends, get accepted by them, get their attention etc., and some of these munafiqeen will do anything to achieve that. Do these kuffaar apologize in the public, media outlets etc of atrocities they have caused around the world, on Muslim & poor non-Muslims?

format_quote Originally Posted by JeffX
Our occupation is horrible, and we should speak out against it. We should raise awareness of the situation at hand. However we shouldn't feel ashamed of something we don't have immediate control over.
Our occupation? Please read my reply above
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MartyrX
09-15-2011, 01:36 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by MSalman
that's a sign of defeatist mind. No Muslim should be apologizing for what happened on 9/11. But then we have bunch of "moderate" Muslims who want to appease the kuffaar, become their friends, get accepted by them, get their attention etc., and some of these munafiqeen will do anything to achieve that. Do these kuffaar apologize in the public, media outlets etc of atrocities they have caused around the world, on Muslim & poor non-Muslims?

Our occupation? Please read my reply above

I agree with you 100% Brother MSalman. I should have stated America's occupation of the Middle East.
Reply

alhamdulilaah
09-15-2011, 07:42 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by MSalman
Reports indicate a rise in sexual abuse of Iraqi women following the US-led invasion of the country in 2003, saying female trafficking has become a growing business.

In her article, published by Inter Press Service (IPS) news agency on August 27, Rebecca Murray noted how prostitution and sex trafficking have become “epidemic in Iraq” during the post-invasion military occupation of the country by US-led forces.

In the past eight years, the country has been witnessing unrelenting violence and deadly terror attacks which smashed “national institutions, impoverished the population and torn apart families and neighborhoods.”

"Wars and conflicts, wherever they are fought, invariably usher in sickeningly high level of violence against women and girls," Murray cited an Amnesty International statement as saying.

The article told the story of Rania, who fell victim of Iraqi officials' sexual assault at 16, during a 1991 brutal crackdown on Iraq's Shia south by executed dictator Saddam Hussein.

Outcast Rania escaped to Baghdad and ended up as a sex trafficker's deputy after living and working in Baghdad's brothels for a while.

She describes female trafficking a lucrative business in Iraq, saying many virgin teenage girls are sold for around 5,000 dollars, and trafficked to destinations like northern Iraq, Syria and the United Arab Emirates.

After being arrested six years ago by US forces on charges of abetting terrorism, Rania was sent to jail in Baghdad's al-Kadimiyah detention and finally ended up as an undercover researcher for a women support group she got to know in prison.

In one of her harrowing findings, Rania and two other girls discovered a house in Baghdad's al-Jihad district, where girls as young as 16 were held to cater exclusively to the US military personnel.

The brothel's owner told Rania that an Iraqi interpreter employed by the Americans served as the dealer, transporting girls to and from the US airport base.

Before the Persian Gulf War in 1991, Iraq enjoyed the highest female literacy rate across the Middle East, and more Iraqi women were employed in skilled professions, like medicine and education, than in any other country in the region.

Norwegian Church Aid report last year highlighted “the US-led war and the chaos it has generated” among other factors giving rise to mounting prostitution in Iraq.


After reading this, I can only say this


18.......No doubt! the curse of Allah is on the Zalimun (polytheists, wrong-doers, oppressors, etc.).
19.
Those who hinder (others) from the Path of Allah (Islamic Monotheism), and seek a crookedness therein, while they are disbelievers in the Hereafter.
20. By no means will they escape (from Allah's Torment) on earth, nor have they protectors besides Allah! Their torment will be doubled! They could not bear to hear (the preachers of the truth) and they used not to see (the truth because of their severe aversin, inspite of the fact that they had the sense of hearing and sight).
21. They are those who have lost their ownselves, and their invented false deities will vanish from them.
22. Certainly, they are those who will be the greatest losers in the Hereafter. Surah Hud (surah no.11:18-22)



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Who Am I?
09-15-2011, 05:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by MSalman
Can we please not divert from the topic? Jazak Allah khayran

wa'alaykum as-salaam wa rahmatullahi wa baraktuhu

My beloved brother, you're a Muslim now so why are you ashamed? What do you, as a Muslim, have to do with being an American? Why are you associating yourself with these kuffaar and oppressors? Just because you happen to be born in America, it doesn't mean you are somehow associated with American nation state or such. Once you entered Islam, you left all that jahliya behind. When you entered Islam, now the dividing line isn't America vs Middle East etc anymore rather dividing line is Kuffaar vs Muslims. Now, as a Muslim, you should be proud of yourself and angry about the state of the Muslims and make dua'a for them and make dua's against their oppressors. You need to stop thinking like a nationalist and start thinking like a Muslim. A Muslim has no nation state and his allegiance, loyalty, respect, honour, shame, etc. lies with Islam & Muslims. May Allah help you learn these important aspects of tawheed & aqeedah and keep you steadfast, ameen.
:sl:

I do pray for all of my brothers and sisters every time that I pray. I ask Allah to make us all better servants and better people.
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Pygoscelis
09-16-2011, 01:21 PM
That Malcolm X vid is thought provoking (though a bit conflicting for an atheist such as myself). It is a beautiful message and exactly the sort of thing we all need to heed.

Regarding the prostitution being rife in Iraq, if the US withdrew all forces tomorrow do you think it would continue? I think it may, because the power structure of Sadam is gone and the vacuum is and will be moreso filled with warlords and anarchy and that brings crime and prostitution with it. Mind you, I get my understanding second hand, from friends and clients who have come over from Iraq so my view may be distorted.
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MSalman
09-16-2011, 02:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
Regarding the prostitution being rife in Iraq, if the US withdrew all forces tomorrow do you think it would continue?
Whether it continues to grow, stays the same or comes down is irrelevant as far I'm concerned. It's rather relevant to discuss the crimes of western invaders, in specific the leader (U.S). Forcing people to take this route out of desperation (poverty etc.) or due to corruption in the land is not "liberating" and giving them "rights" and it's one of the worse crimes. Most of the times, aftereffects of war are more devastating for the people than the loss of wealth, lives, and infrastructure. But then again many of the westerns consider pornography & prostitution to be perfectly moral and it is legalized. So it's no surprise that all these Islamophobes, and saviours of human "rights" do not speak about this issue. Why don't we hear them chant their favourite words "immoral", "pedophilia" etc.? Just look at this very forum - how many times have non-Muslims brought up this issue but they will be quick to comment on Islamists?

Another question, in general, food for thought: will these U.S army officers will be charged for having intimate relationships with "under age" girls?

format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
I think it may, because the power structure of Sadam is gone and the vacuum is and will be moreso filled with warlords and anarchy and that brings crime and prostitution with it.
Western thugs invaded Iraq to control it and I'm certain they will make sure that all these warlords, leaders etc., are filtered and under their control. So you maybe right in your conclusion. But I pray that God fail their plans and righteous people gain power to put an end to this oppression.
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Abz2000
09-16-2011, 03:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
if the US withdrew all forces tomorrow do you think it would continue? I think it may, because the power structure of Sadam is gone and the vacuum is and will be moreso filled with warlords and anarchy and that brings crime and prostitution with it.
Regardless of how the people decide to govern themselves afterwards - as long as there is no CIA hand,
it isn't the us governments job to dictate for them since it's an illegal war and therefore a criminal occupation,
I'm sure it wouldn't be considered ok for a rapist, murderer and thief who went into burgle someone's house wit a bunch of mercenaries to remain in there just because "there may be revenge attacks" from the burgled people,
Or because "there may be instability" after the burglars left.
I'm sure any sane person would find such a notion ridiculous.
Reply

Who Am I?
09-16-2011, 05:19 PM
:sl:

Say what you want about Saddam, but at least he was a stabilizing force for Iraq, much as the Taliban was in Afghanistan.
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Abz2000
09-16-2011, 07:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by King of Nines
Say what you want about Saddam, but at least he was a stabilizing force for Iraq, much as the Taliban was in Afghanistan.
and gaddafi in libya (despite his biggest fault in joining their war on fake "terror" after they illegally attacked iraq and began accusing libya of possesing wmd) - until they installed some more of their mercenary "alQeada" assets who have been wreaking false flag havoc in iraq and afghanistan



and they pretend to want peace and "stability"?





204. There is the type of man whose speech about this world's life May dazzle thee, and he calls Allah to witness about what is in his heart; yet is he the most contentious of enemies.
205. When he turns his back, His aim everywhere is to spread mischief through the earth and destroy crops and cattle. But Allah loveth not mischief.
206. When it is said to him, "Fear Allah., He is led by arrogance to (more) crime. Enough for him is Hell;-An evil bed indeed (To lie on)!
207. And there is the type of man who gives his life to earn the pleasure of Allah. And Allah is full of kindness to (His) devotees.
208. O ye who believe! Enter into Islam whole-heartedly; and follow not the footsteps of the evil one; for he is to you an avowed enemy.
209. If ye backslide after the clear (Signs) have come to you, then know that Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.
(Quran 2:204-209)


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Pygoscelis
09-16-2011, 09:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by MSalman
Most of the times, aftereffects of war are more devastating for the people than the loss of wealth, lives, and infrastructure.
This truth is so often overlooked. The devestation of world war 2 in Japan is STILL present and that was a very long time ago. There are still serious problems everywhere else the US military industrial complex has waged war as well. I was hoping that under Obama this tune may change but it really hasn't. The powers that be in the US, and in the west in general seem resilient even in the face of democracy trying to counter them.

But then again many of the westerns consider pornography & prostitution to be perfectly moral and it is legalized.
Well, this is getting off topic as the issue here ins't prostitution and pornography itself, but the forcing of people into it, pimping, etc. If a woman wants to be a prostitute I have little problem with it, and I support it being legal for her to do. Her body, her choice. If somebody forces her into it then I oppose it and hope whoever is doing so gets arrested. By making prostitutino itself legal (as it is here in Canada) it can actually be easier to find and charge such pimps.

So it's no surprise that all these Islamophobes, and saviours of human "rights" do not speak about this issue.
Are you equoting islamophobia with westerners fighting for human rights? Do you realize these two groups more often than not oppose each other?

Why don't we hear them chant their favourite words "immoral", "pedophilia" etc.?
I assume you mean the islamophobes? They are too filled with hate of the other. Islam is actually just their current outlet. It used to be Communists. It is often atheists.

Just look at this very forum -
how many times have non-Muslims brought up this issue but they will be quick to comment on Islamists?
This is a room about Islam. People are going to talk about Islam and Islamists here. Actually, that rarely happens come to think of it. Most of the non-muslims here are not islamophobes. If you'd like to see me speaking out about pedophilia particularly, you'd have to go to the other boards I speak on which have forums dedicated to such issues.

Another question, in general, food for thought: will these U.S army officers will be charged for having intimate relationships with "under age" girls?
They should be! But I doubt they will be. The US gives WAAAY too much of a free pass to military people. I get so sick of the whole "we support the troops" mantra and how it is used so frequently to forbid any criticism of hte military or its officers.

Western thugs invaded Iraq to control it and I'm certain they will make sure that all these warlords, leaders etc., are filtered and under their control. So you maybe right in your conclusion. But I pray that God fail their plans and righteous people gain power to put an end to this oppression.
I think borders and nations are immaterial. It is the strong exploiting the weak. It happens on a global scale as the US abuses its power. It also will happen on a local scale once the US departs as warlords abuse their power.

Have a great weekend everybody.
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Pygoscelis
09-16-2011, 09:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by King of Nines
:sl:

Say what you want about Saddam, but at least he was a stabilizing force for Iraq, much as the Taliban was in Afghanistan.
.... as was Hitler, who also brought Germany out of financial ruin and made the trains run on time.
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GuestFellow
09-16-2011, 09:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
.... as was Hitler, who also brought Germany out of financial ruin and made the trains run on time.
Who received financial support from the US.

http://www.reformed-theology.org/html/books/wall_street

^ It's a good read...
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Who Am I?
09-16-2011, 10:15 PM
:sl:

Hitler was at first actively enouraged and supported by both the USA and UK because a unified, rearmed, and reindustrialized Germany was seen as a buffer against the Soviet Union. Communism was the real enemy until it became necessary to unite with the Communists against the Nazis.
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GuestFellow
09-16-2011, 10:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by King of Nines
:sl:

Hitler was at first actively enouraged and supported by both the USA and UK because a unified, rearmed, and reindustrialized Germany was seen as a buffer against the Soviet Union. Communism was the real enemy until it became necessary to unite with the Communists against the Nazis.
:wa:

Ah yes, we've had this discussion before. http://reformed-theology.org/html/bo...ion/index.html

WALL STREET AND THE BOLSHEVIK REVOLUTION

^ A good read...

I'm not going to go into detail but US has been financing both sides. This has also happened during the Iran and Iraq war.
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aadil77
09-16-2011, 11:16 PM
May all these oppressive kuffar rot in Hell, this is all our fault, we failed to put up a resistance to protect our sisters and the brothers who do put up a resistance get condemned by our cowardly palace scholars - they get told that they're causing fitna and are fighting an illegitimate jihad.
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Abz2000
09-17-2011, 02:34 AM
the communist system is another phase in the testing of systems before they attempt to usher in their order of the new ages:

"For more than a century ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents such as my encounter with Castro to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions.
Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States,
characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists'
and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure--one world, if you will.
If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.


The United Nations Headquarters complex was constructed in New York City in 1949 and 1950 beside the East River,
on 17 acres (69,000 m2) of land.
Nelson Rockefeller arranged this purchase,
after an initial offer to locate it on the Rockefeller family estate of Kykuit was rejected as being too isolated from Manhattan.
The $8.5 million purchase was then funded by his father, John D. Rockefeller, Jr. who donated it to the City.

The lead architect for the building was the real estate firm of Wallace Harrison, the personal architectural adviser for the family.



"One is impressed immediately by the sense of national harmony.... Whatever the price of the Chinese Revolution it has obviously succeeded (60 million innocent people murdered and some have their parts sold to the highest bidder on the market, and forced abortions) ... in fostering high morale and community purpose. General social and economic progress is no less impressive....The enormous social advances of China have benefited greatly form the singleness of ideology and purpose....
The social experiment in China under Chairman Mao's leadership is one of the most important and successful in history."
David Rockefeller - New York Times, 8-10-1973.

anyway - back to topic:

Reply

Who Am I?
09-17-2011, 03:37 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
:wa:

Ah yes, we've had this discussion before. http://reformed-theology.org/html/bo...ion/index.html

WALL STREET AND THE BOLSHEVIK REVOLUTION

^ A good read...

I'm not going to go into detail but US has been financing both sides. This has also happened during the Iran and Iraq war.
Yes, I remember that discussion, except that time we were on opposite sides. ;D
Reply

Karl
09-17-2011, 04:03 AM
Well the Iraqis did turn to the kafirs for help. The Americans worship Kratos in their heart of hearts. "Might makes it right" the American slogan. They wanted the American way they got it.
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Futuwwa
09-18-2011, 11:29 PM
You couldn't find any other source than PressTV? That's a state-run Iranian media outlet. I wouldn't trust them to do fair and unbiased reporting on a topic like this one.

A brothel exclusively serving US military personnel, shuttling girls between the brothel and an airport base? I'm not buying that. Sex between Iraqis and personnel of the US military is strictly forbidden by the code of conduct of the occupation. Running that kind of operation, and constantly shuttling girls like that, is something that it would be hard to keep secret, requiring a great deal of people to be either involved in it or at least know about it, leading to a high risk of getting caught. And why run a regular operation? Why not just let the customers come to the brothel, or to other places? That would work just as well, and be a lot more discrete.
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Futuwwa
09-18-2011, 11:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
.... as was Hitler, who also brought Germany out of financial ruin and made the trains run on time.
Actually that was Mussolini ;D
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Abz2000
09-18-2011, 11:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Futuwwa
Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
.... as was Hitler, who also brought Germany out of financial ruin and made the trains run on time...........

Actually that was Mussolini
Prince Philip (the Queen's husband) has broken a 60-year public silence about his family's links with the Nazis.

In a frank interview, he said they found Hitler's attempts to restore Germany's power and prestige 'attractive' and admitted they had 'inhibitions about the Jews'....
...Explaining the attraction of the Nazis, 84-year-old Prince Philip told an American academic:
"There was a great improvement in things like trains running on time and building.

format_quote Originally Posted by Futuwwa
Sex between Iraqis and personnel of the US military is strictly forbidden by the code of conduct of the occupation. Running that kind of operation, and constantly shuttling girls like that, is something that it would be hard to keep secret, requiring a great deal of people to be either involved in it or at least know about it, leading to a high risk of getting caught.
it's not as "regulated" as you would like to pretend:



and yes - they have been caught covering it up:



format_quote Originally Posted by Futuwwa
You couldn't find any other source than PressTV? That's a state-run Iranian media outlet. I wouldn't trust them to do fair and unbiased reporting on a topic like this one.
you just trust cnn and bbc and you'll be jus' fine - voa's another one you'd probably love.
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GuestFellow
09-18-2011, 11:40 PM
^ I really hope that guy is lying.

format_quote Originally Posted by Futuwwa
You couldn't find any other source than PressTV? That's a state-run Iranian media outlet. I wouldn't trust them to do fair and unbiased reporting on a topic like this one.

A brothel exclusively serving US military personnel, shuttling girls between the brothel and an airport base? I'm not buying that. Sex between Iraqis and personnel of the US military is strictly forbidden by the code of conduct of the occupation. Running that kind of operation, and constantly shuttling girls like that, is something that it would be hard to keep secret, requiring a great deal of people to be either involved in it or at least know about it, leading to a high risk of getting caught. And why run a regular operation? Why not just let the customers come to the brothel, or to other places? That would work just as well, and be a lot more discrete.
I'm aware PressTV is biased to some extent but there must be an element of truth involved.

In her article, published by Inter Press Service (IPS) news agency on August 27, Rebecca Murray noted how prostitution and sex trafficking have become “epidemic in Iraq” during the post-invasion military occupation of the country by US-led forces
This story has also been published by IPS which I think is trustworthy source of information.
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Futuwwa
09-18-2011, 11:46 PM
abz, who's that? Is he one of the guys who murdered that family in Haditha? One of the people caught for misconduct in Abu Ghraib? And how does he, whoever he is, prove any point that has anything to do with the claims of the OP?
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Abz2000
09-19-2011, 12:26 AM
no - it was a soldier who had returned to the u.s and was getting drunk with "friends".
and it seems apparent you didn't even watch the second video where they clearly explain how they are threatened to shut up - but you decided to comment.
the torture memos made it clear:
many of the abu ghraib perpetrators said that their orders came form the top - it's an old tactic tyrants use to demoralise people when public morale is high and against them, not realising that using fear to control people just suppresses them and they'll overthrow you at the first chance - like when Moses (pbuh) came to the children of Israel.



scroll to 3 min 20 sec
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Futuwwa
09-19-2011, 01:13 AM
Which still has nothing to do with prostitution, or the allegation that there is an organized brothel service catering to US troops.
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Futuwwa
09-19-2011, 01:19 AM
Besides, whose fault is it that prostitution is soaring in Iraq? The great majority of customers would be Iraqi themselves. If the women survive by prostituting themselves to other Iraqis, it means that those other Iraqis are supporting them by buying their sexual services. Meaning that Iraq's economy is, despite the occupation, large enough to support those women. Are not the rich Iraqi men just as much to blame, they who exploit the desperation of these women, rather than help them out (which they are proven to be capable to afford) or at least offer them more moral employment.
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Abz2000
09-19-2011, 02:41 AM
Four things were learned in the interrogation of Saddam Hussien:

1. The reason for Iraq's invasion into Kuwait was that Kuwait was using horizontal oil drilling technology to access oil that existed on the Iraqi side of the border.
(this horizontal drilling was done by companies with ties to the bush family, and some companies where the bushes had until just before - held direct stakes).
When Iraq confronted Kuwait, Kuwait told Iraq that anything done to stop it would result in every Iraqi woman becoming a ten dollar prostitute under Kuwaiti resolve.

Saddam said they were purposefully pushing him to war through illegal practices, economic manipulation and the insults were the last straw.

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Abz2000
09-19-2011, 02:48 AM
who's fault was it?
the leadership is run by puppets and it wasn't widespread before.
that speaks volumes - as it does in the west.
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Ramadhan
09-19-2011, 03:50 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Futuwwa
Besides, whose fault is it that prostitution is soaring in Iraq?
This is like saying "whose fault is it that opium production is soaring in Afghanistan".

Yep, Iraq and Afghanistan are just two normal countries similar like Finland.

Thanks for expounding such enlightening reason.
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Futuwwa
09-19-2011, 12:59 PM
You could actually refute what I said after that first sentence, rather than post an analogy for which it is hardly clear how it's supposed to make a point.
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Futuwwa
09-19-2011, 01:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by abz2000
Four things were learned in the interrogation of Saddam Hussien:

1. The reason for Iraq's invasion into Kuwait was that Kuwait was using horizontal oil drilling technology to access oil that existed on the Iraqi side of the border.
(this horizontal drilling was done by companies with ties to the bush family, and some companies where the bushes had until just before - held direct stakes).
When Iraq confronted Kuwait, Kuwait told Iraq that anything done to stop it would result in every Iraqi woman becoming a ten dollar prostitute under Kuwaiti resolve.

Saddam said they were purposefully pushing him to war through illegal practices, economic manipulation and the insults were the last straw.
And how was this "learned" in the interrogation of Saddam? Saddam said so, and therefore it must be true?

I'd like something more solid than the unsupported claims of a doomed man. Like, actual physical evidence. Drilling should leave a hole, where is it? And if Saddam knew about it, then he should have been able to tell where the evidence for that was.
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Pygoscelis
09-19-2011, 01:30 PM
It would not surprise me in the slightest if true. But I doubt the source. Why would the US government release such information to the public? Especially when Bush is/was a President?
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Abz2000
09-19-2011, 01:48 PM
Futuwwa, next time anyone tells you there was no WMD in Iraq and that they muredered over a million people based on Total lies
Call them a conspiracy theorist,

Pygoscelis, do you find it difficult to see their criminality despite all the lies and murders?
Yes - murders, these are cold blooded calculating murderers.
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GuestFellow
09-19-2011, 02:36 PM
^ He did raise a good question.

format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
Why would the US government release such information to the public? Especially when Bush is/was a President?
This is something that I don't understand.
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Abz2000
09-19-2011, 02:54 PM
it's called demoralisation. an ancient tactic used by aggressors to demoralise a people.
it is sometimes used as damage limitation, as can be seen in abu ghraib, and fallujah.
yet Allah is the best of planners,
the rage continues to grow within.

the 3rd (small paragraph) explains.....
http://www.crimesofwar.org/a-z-guide/sexual-violence-systematic-rape/



Rape as a Weapon of War_Full Version

http://ts-si.org/files/BMJCliffordPaper.pdf

this prostitution stuff is another component, since it is a result of illegal aggression and economic oppression.

Truly Pharaoh elated himself in the land and broke up its people into sections,
depressing a small group among them: their sons he slew, but he kept alive their females: for he was indeed a maker of mischief.
Quran 28:4

morale is an important part of victory:
Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost: for Allah is with you, and will never put you in loss for your (good) deeds.
Quran 47:35

Allah made it but a message of hope, and an assurance to your hearts: (in any case) there is no help except from Allah. and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.
11. Remember He covered you with a sort of drowsiness, to give you calm as from Himself, and he caused rain to descend on you from heaven, to clean you therewith, to remove from you the stain of Satan, to strengthen your hearts, and to plant your feet firmly therewith.
12. Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message):
"I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."
13. This because they contended against Allah and His Messenger. If any contend against Allah and His Messenger, Allah is strict in punishment.
14. Thus (will it be said): "Taste ye then of the (punishment): for those who resist Allah, is the penalty of the Fire."
15. O ye who believe! when ye meet the Unbelievers in hostile array, never turn your backs to them.
16. If any do turn his back to them on such a day - unless it be in a stratagem of war, or to retreat to a troop (of his own)- he draws on himself the wrath of Allah, and his abode is Hell,- an evil refuge (indeed)!
Quran 8:10-16
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Pygoscelis
09-19-2011, 04:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by abz2000
Pygoscelis, do you find it difficult to see their criminality
I doubt their admitting to it. And I doubt their interrogators pushing for this information (which the US regime would already know if true).
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MSalman
09-19-2011, 05:26 PM
Ah you know what, I forgot to add that this is just another conspiracy by Islamists. These Islamists bring nothing but shame to Islam & Muslims. We should work with non-Muslims and unite as one to eliminate these extremists.
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Abz2000
09-20-2011, 01:53 AM
it's also ironic how they use the word extremist as inherently bad,
i guess they depend on ignorance, and even some muslims parrot it.
if you see Islam as good, then someone who's extremely good can't be a bad thing,
they use it to somehow imply that we're bad enough as it is (islamists) and the extremists are worse
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MSalman
09-20-2011, 01:56 PM
From 'authentic' & 'trustworthy' sources of news: Prostitution in Iraq

Rahim tells the heartbreaking story of one woman they found who lives in a room with three of her children: "She has sex while her three children are in the room, but she makes them stand in separate corners"
Ya Allah!!
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