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Alpha Dude
09-20-2011, 05:45 AM
:sl:

i. When people say something on seeing a wrong action committed by a brother or sister, do they do it with the intention to explicitly 'forbid the bad, enjoin the good' or do they do it because they genuinely wish good upon the people they are talking to? Is there any human way to tell and know for sure what the intention of the advising person is?

ii. Furthermore, when someone says something based on conviction and it appears 'harsh' or 'bitter' does it necessarily mean that person is doing so out of pride, ego and arrogance? Is there any human way to know what the intention of that person is?

Sort of a cryptic thread but these thoughts were on my mind...
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Abdul-Raouf
09-20-2011, 06:36 AM
Unless ALLAH reveals about that person to us (as He did to the Prophets) ... It cannot be found.

Allah knows our Intention.... We know only the Action.

A Human does have secrets .... which is known to Him alone... better than himself.
And some secrets which is known to him and his Creator.

I feel some of the Politicians of today are the best actors and stunt masters... None can beat them.
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Riana17
09-20-2011, 06:46 AM
Salam Alaikkum,

For me the best way in giving advice is to put ourselves in the picture/situation. No one can really tell the accurate intention except Allah (swt), we can even lie to ourselves that we are doing good, what Brother Ardianto said in one thread pretty explains your question.

“I know you have heard some or maybe many negative comments about you. But I am sure, you also have heard some constructive advices that aimed at you. My question, will you focus on negative comments and let yourself 'going down', or you will focus on constructive advices that will revive your spirit ?”

So basically no one can stop mixed comments from coming.

As an Advisor, I always try to be aware and if my ideas will mean to be harsh and cause additional burden to bro/sis, I would try to hold myself and keep it private.

However, there are few cases where I can see people denies the room for improvement and they have close minded, even if he/she receives a lot of warning or good advices, in that scenario there is big chance I would lose my patience and just be frank and I wouldnt care anymore whether the person takes my advise or not, I must say what I see is wrong, but if you will ask my intention, I only want good for others, nothing else, even if it meant to lose my patience I still want nothing but good for everyone. Allah knows best.
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Tyrion
09-20-2011, 07:11 AM
Originally Posted by Alpha Dude
Sort of a cryptic thread but these thoughts were on my mind...
Doesn't seem very cryptic to me. :rolleyes:

Anyway, both your questions deal with intention, and obviously the true intention of a person is seen by God alone. I'm pretty sure you knew that though, so I'm not sure why you're asking. o.o

Now, when it comes to people who want to "enjoin the good and forbid the evil", there are those people who like to make it explicitly known that that's what they're doing... I don't feel like someone who was actually doing those things with sincerity would feel the need to announce it to the world in order to defend their actions... But that's just an opinion of mine that's based on experience... Also, keep in mind that a good intention doesn't necessarily mean that the action was good or necessary. :p:
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marwen
09-20-2011, 04:02 PM
Sometimes it depends on the person who receives the advice too. The same advice given to 2 persons may be received differently. Sometimes the context is important, someone who had a bad day will be very sensitive, and will not accept the slightest advice.

Originally Posted by Alpha Dude
when someone says something based on conviction and it appears 'harsh' or 'bitter' does it necessarily mean that person is doing so out of pride, ego and arrogance
To be rational, we do not have to look for the intention of the person who gives us advice. If we see that the advice is correct and beneficial, we should take it, independently.
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Eric H
09-20-2011, 04:43 PM
Gretings and peace be with you marwen;

If we see that the advice is correct and beneficial, we should take it, independently
Advice with proof is designed to be ignored repeatedly, and I will just give one example. If you smoke in the UK, every packet carries graphic warnings of why you should not smoke, yet millions do.

Scientists compile huge amounts of evidence and statistics against smoking. If people can ignore this amount of advice, how can we ever give personal advice and hope it will be followed.

Giving advice often makes us hypocrites, because we often do a lot of the wrong stuff ourselves, and ignore advice.

Giving advice is good because we do not have to be a part of the solution, we have placed that burden on someone else, we do not have to suffer the consequences of any action based on our best advice.

Every blessing be with you all, as long as you follow my advice:D:D:D

Eric
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joyous fairy
09-20-2011, 05:05 PM
Walaykum salam,

I think intentions of others should not matter to us if the advice is good advice. The intention is between Allah (swt) and that person. If we go around trying to figure out peoples intentions, we wouldnt get very far. It would make us judgemental and curious about other things that person does too and we might end up exposing their bad side.

Some people seem rude naturally but that doesnt mean they are arrogant/egoistic/prideful. If we can take the good from people and forgive/ignore the bad or advise if we can, then it would be better for us and them inshaAllah.
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Flame of Hope
09-20-2011, 07:19 PM
:sl:

Giving advice is easy. It's cheap. It's found everywhere you turn. The newspapers have the ADVICE column. You have family members breathing down your back telling you all the things you're doing wrong. Friends who mean well.... when they give you advice.

When giving advice, I think it's important to consider whether it is going to cause more harm than good.

One has to find fault with someone before he gives advice..........

hence, this is a very delicate and sensitive issue.

I think there's a big problem when a person begins to see other people's faults.

A verse from the Qur'an as reminder:

And do not find fault with one another (49:11)


Hadiths to think about:

1. Ibn 'Abbas said, "If you wish to mention the faults of your friend, mention your own faults first."
- Bukhari's Book of Manners #329


2. 'Amr ibn al 'As said, "...I am amazed at one who spots an impurity in the eye of another but is unable to detect it in his/her own eye, or who attempts to remove a grudge from another's heart while making no attempt to remove grudges from his/her own heart. I have never blamed anyone for the confidences of mine that they have betrayed. How could I, when already they have given me reason for pause?" - Bukhari's Book of Manners #889 and Ibn Hibban


3. The Prophet said, "Beware of suspicion, for suspicion is the worst of false tales; and do not look for the others' faults and do not spy, and do not be jealous of one another, and do not desert (cut your relation with) one another, and do not hate one another; and O Allah's worshipers! Be brothers (as Allah has ordered you!")
- Bukhari, Book 8, Volume 73, Hadith 90.


4. Bilal ibn Sa'd al Ash'ari reported that Mu'awiyah wrote to Abu Darda' "Write to the wrongdoers of Damascus." So he asked, "What do I have to do with the wrongdoers of Damascus? How will I know them?" Abu Darda's son, Bilal said, "I will write to them," which he did. Then Abu Darda' said [to Bilal], "How did you know to whom to write? You could not have known they were wrongdoers unless you were one of them. Begin with yourself!" So he did not address the letter in anyone's name.* - Bukhari's Book of Manners #1295


*i.e. he didn't single out a specific person as a wrongdoer, but spoke about wrongdoings in general, to come as a reminder (of Quran and Sunnah) to the people.


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Flame of Hope
09-21-2011, 02:33 AM
:sl:

Couldn't resist putting in here a few quotes related to the topic under discussion.

----------

1. I am glad that I paid so little attention to good advice; had I abided by it I might have been saved from some of my most valuable mistakes.- Edna St. Vincent Millay



2. Generosity gives assistance, rather than advice. - Marquis de Vauvenargues.


3. It is easy when we are in prosperity to give advice to the afflicted. - Aeschylus.


4. To advise is easier than to help. - Proverb.


5. Advice is least heeded when most needed. - Unknown.


6. There is nothing which we receive with so much reluctance as advice. - Joseph Addison

And the last one: :)


7. If people wanted your unsolicited advice, they’d ask for it. -
MAD Magazine :D


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Insaanah
09-21-2011, 06:31 PM
:sl:

Originally Posted by Alpha Dude
i. When people say something on seeing a wrong action committed by a brother or sister, do they do it with the intention to explicitly 'forbid the bad, enjoin the good' or do they do it because they genuinely wish good upon the people they are talking to? Is there any human way to tell and know for sure what the intention of the advising person is?
No there isn't. None of our business. Allah's job, and he will reward according to intention. "The reward of deeds depends upon the intentions and every person will get the reward according to what he has intended. So whoever emigrated for worldly benefits or for a woman to marry, his emigration was for what he emigrated for.” [Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 1, Number 1]

Originally Posted by Alpha Dude
i. Furthermore, when someone says something based on conviction and it appears 'harsh' or 'bitter' does it necessarily mean that person is doing so out of pride, ego and arrogance? Is there any human way to know what the intention of that person is?
They may simply be lacking a bit of wisdom, but have good intentions. Either way, it is simply none of our business to know what their intention is.

If the advice is good, we take it, if not, we leave it, and if the advice is not Islamically correct, or given in the wrong manner, then we gently and constructively correct them rather than telling them they shouldn't have advised the good deed at all.

And Allah knows best in all matters.

:sl:
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Flame of Hope
09-22-2011, 09:54 PM
:sl:


Narrated Anas: Allah’s Messenger said, “No one of you becomes true believer
until he likes for his brother what he likes for himself.”
- (Al-Bukhari and Muslim)

I don't like people giving me advice when I haven't asked them for it. If this is what I don't like other people to do unto me, I wouldn't make the mistake of giving people advice when they haven't asked for it.

I think it's important to be a little more specific on this topic about "Giving Advice..."

There is: 1. Giving advice when you haven't been asked to give it and there is:

2. Giving advice when you have been asked to give it.

They are not the same.
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M.I.A.
09-22-2011, 10:04 PM
i said harsh words to my cousin infront of my brother, we were giving him a lift back home after he read dua at our house.
later i explained to my brother what exactly was the point and why i was harsh and asked him to apolagise on my behalf the next time he saw him.

its a cop out from my point of view but thats usually how i do things, so that other people dont use things that you would think beneficial to hurt someone.
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Flame of Hope
10-10-2011, 12:34 AM
:sl:

Advice ought to be given by people of knowledge. People of knowledge are people who fear Allah. And people who fear Allah are afraid of giving advice.

Check out the lives of the sahabah and how fearful they were of answering questions and giving advice to people.
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