France imposes first niqab fines

[MSalman]

Hind Ahmas and Najate Nait Ali were caught wearing the niqab in public outside Meaux town hall, eastern Paris, soon after the law came in in May.


The women say they will appeal against their punishment all the way to the European Court of Human Rights.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15013383

These crazy niqabis, they're bringing nothing but shame to Islam & Muslims. Niqab is not even from Islam. Some of these extremist Muslims ruin all our daw'ah and negotiation efforts. Why can't they just obey the law? Because of these we get backlash in the media and public. They should move to Saudi Arabia if they want to wear niqab so badly and keep living in 7th century by remaining in control of men.

We need to invite our non-Muslim friends to Islam. They are very peaceful and not against Islam or Muslims. And we should work with them to eliminate these extremist Islamists.

[/end of sarcasm]

Another high-profile niqab-wearer, Kenza Drider, has said she will stand for president in the 2012 election.

:D - SubhaanAllah, what a brave sister! May Allah reward her abundantly, ameen. Maybe some of the munafiqeen learn a lesson from her.

May Allah protect our sisters in France, keep them steadfast and make a way out for them, ameen.

[GuestFellow]

It will be interesting to see how the European Court of Human Rights reacts to this.

[SFatima]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15013383

These crazy niqabis, they're bringing nothing but shame to Islam & Muslims. Niqab is not even from Islam. Some of these extremist Muslims ruin all our daw'ah and negotiation efforts. Why can't they just obey the law? Because of these we get backlash in the media and public. They should move to Saudi Arabia if they want to wear niqab so badly and keep living in 7th century by remaining in control of men.

How are they bringing shame and why should they move to saudia?

We need to invite our non-Muslim friends to Islam. They are very peaceful and not against Islam or Muslims. And we should work with them to eliminate these extremist Islamists.

"Eliminate?' so now you're suggesting that we 'eliminate' people because they prefer to wear a piece of cloth, brilliant. :p

SubhaanAllah, what a brave sister! May Allah reward her abundantly, ameen. Maybe some of the munafiqeen learn a lesson from her.

May Allah protect our sisters in France, keep them steadfast and make a way out for them, ameen.

Sum aameen and

though this statement is not in line with the above statement of your post..

[Pygoscelis]

I'll say what I always say when this is brought up. These women should be allowed to wear niqab, and indeed burka if they wish, anywhere I can wear a ski mask. Why we cover our faces should not be relevant and no special rules should oppose doing so for religious reasons, or allow doing so for religious reasons.

They were on a public street just walking along it would seem? I see no reason why we shouldn't be allowed to wear masks in such a place. If this was in a courthouse or bank or airport or something that would be different.

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[Pygoscelis]

Some of these extremist Muslims ruin all our daw'ah and negotiation efforts. Why can't they just obey the law?

Is there more to this story? From what I can tell all they did was cover their faces in public. That isn't extremist. And if the law is unjust, they are good and brave to oppose it and bring it into higher courts to test it. I'm not very familiar with the French system, but in my country this kind of case could get the law struck down if it is unconstitutional, and it very well may be.

[~Raindrop~]

.................................................. ..

[Who Am I?]

:sl:

I don't know for sure, but I THINK brother MSalman may have meant that first part of his post as sarcasm. At least that's how I interpreted it.

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

___________________

[GuestFellow]

I'll say what I always say when this is brought up. These women should be allowed to wear niqab, and indeed burka if they wish, anywhere I can wear a ski mask. Why we cover our faces should not be relevant and no special rules should oppose doing so for religious reasons, or allow doing so for religious reasons.

They were on a public street just walking along it would seem? I see no reason why we shouldn't be allowed to wear masks in such a place. If this was in a courthouse or bank or airport or something that would be different.

The reason why Muslim women wear the Niqaab is because for religious reasons. They also feel that people should judge them on what they have to say. When you see a women wearing a Niqaab, you know that she is a Muslim who is practicing Islam.

You want to wear a ski mask. Why?

[MSalman]

:sl:

I don't know for sure, but I THINK brother MSalman may have meant that first part of his post as sarcasm. At least that's how I interpreted it.

wa'alaykum as-salaam

Jazak Allah khayran - at least someone picked the sarcasm; I thought it was pretty obvious. I don't think my sense of humour/sarcasm is that bad. :hiding:

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

wa'alaykum as-salaam

Jazak Allah khayran - at least someone picked the sarcasm; I thought it was pretty obvious. I don't think my sense of humour/sarcasm is that bad. :hiding:

I apologise for my post..

[Ramadhan]

You want to wear a ski mask. Why?

Pygo has a point there.

I'd like to know more about the details of this niqab-banning law: whether it specifically bans niqab in public places, or whether it also bans ALL kinds of face covers.
If for example a person is allowed to walk around wearing helmet in france, but niqab is not allowed, then the french government is truly islamophobic and discriminatory and deserve to be sued all the way to european court of human rights and forced to clean up its act, including the praying in public places part.

[User29123]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15013383

These crazy niqabis, they're bringing nothing but shame to Islam & Muslims. Niqab is not even from Islam. Some of these extremist Muslims ruin all our daw'ah and negotiation efforts. Why can't they just obey the law? Because of these we get backlash in the media and public. They should move to Saudi Arabia if they want to wear niqab so badly and keep living in 7th century by remaining in control of men.

We need to invite our non-Muslim friends to Islam. They are very peaceful and not against Islam or Muslims. And we should work with them to eliminate these extremist Islamists.

:D - SubhaanAllah, what a brave sister! May Allah reward her abundantly, ameen. Maybe some of the munafiqeen learn a lesson from her.

May Allah protect our sisters in France, keep them steadfast and make a way out for them, ameen.

They can wear it if they want as long in airports and stuff they take it off I see no problem. But ask yourself how many of these people wearing this have caused society harm? How many have banked robbed? Assaulted a person?, I don't think many would...The government is just saying its hard to identify people, they don't need to identify people? Get out of our lifes lol..

[Who Am I?]

wa'alaykum as-salaam

Jazak Allah khayran - at least someone picked the sarcasm; I thought it was pretty obvious. I don't think my sense of humour/sarcasm is that bad. :hiding:

:sl:

I should change my name to King of Sarcasm, because most of what I say usually has some elements of sarcasm and cynicism in it, so I like to think I'm pretty good at spotting it.

At least this is what I tell myself to make myself feel better...

[Abz2000]

this is obviously an anti-Islamic media campaign.

if people walked around wearing surgical masks and sunglasses due to their concern of pollution and bacteria - do you think they could ban it?

it's so obvious that they're targeting the concept of Islamic dress.

also notice how they'll almost always show images of elderly or slightly overwieght women with prison-like grid bars over their eyes as a sort of psychological repulsion when discussing niqab.
when they show women in g-strings - how often do you see an elderly or overweight woman?
i think it's called perception management and promotion of decadence.

They've really deluded them.........
Remember this story?

[Pygoscelis]

The reason why Muslim women wear the Niqaab is because for religious reasons. They also feel that people should judge them on what they have to say. When you see a women wearing a Niqaab, you know that she is a Muslim who is practicing Islam.

You want to wear a ski mask. Why?

It doesn't matter why. That is my point. If I can cover my face, she should be allowed to cover hers. And if she can cover hers, I should be allowed to cover mine. Why we do it is irrelevant. No special rules for or against religion. That is fair.

[Pygoscelis]

I'd like to know more about the details of this niqab-banning law: whether it specifically bans niqab in public places, or whether it also bans ALL kinds of face covers.
If for example a person is allowed to walk around wearing helmet in france, but niqab is not allowed, then the french government is truly islamophobic and discriminatory and deserve to be sued all the way to european court of human rights and forced to clean up its act, including the praying in public places part.

Yes. This exactly.

[GuestFellow]

It doesn't matter why. That is my point. If I can cover my face, she should be allowed to cover hers. And if she can cover hers, I should be allowed to cover mine. Why we do it is irrelevant. No special rules for or against religion. That is fair.

I think it matters. It is not about special rules. It's to do with motivation. Some people cover their faces to commit a crime. Your already familiar with why Muslim women wear the Niqaab. So explain to me my would you want to cover your face?

I'll give you another example to demonstrate my point. Some Sikh people carry a dagger for religious reasons. I know Sikh people are not going to hurt anyone with this dagger. However, if I was carrying a dagger outside the street, would you not be concerned? I'm not a Sikh, so I can't be carrying it for religious reasons. I'm carrying it for a different reason.

[Mister Agenda]

Interesting point about Sikhs...I'm thinking it is one thing to allow something because it is religious and another to prohibit something because it is religious. That said, I think the French government has forgotten what 'secular' really means. It is as nonsecular to prohibit something because it is a religous practice as it is to promote something because it is a religous practice. Secularism in regards to government means that government can neither endorse nor oppress religion.

The Niqaab should be allowed anywhere someone else could wear a mask. For instance, the French can wear ski masks outdoors in most places (although it would be very odd in the summer!).

[GuestFellow]

^ But why would some people choose to wear a Ski mask? It does not sound like a realistic example. Can anyone here give a realistic example of someone covering their face? :/

[Muezzin]

Interesting point about Sikhs...I'm thinking it is one thing to allow something because it is religious and another to prohibit something because it is religious. That said, I think the French government has forgotten what 'secular' really means. It is as nonsecular to prohibit something because it is a religous practice as it is to promote something because it is a religous practice. Secularism in regards to government means that government can neither endorse nor oppress religion.

Exactly. I wish everyone understood this.

[Ramadhan]

^ But why would some people choose to wear a Ski mask? It does not sound like a realistic example. Can anyone here give a realistic example of someone covering their face? :/

I've seen buskers (street performers) who completely covered their face as part of their costume/act in the streets of paris.

[Who Am I?]

Interesting point about Sikhs...I'm thinking it is one thing to allow something because it is religious and another to prohibit something because it is religious. That said, I think the French government has forgotten what 'secular' really means. It is as nonsecular to prohibit something because it is a religous practice as it is to promote something because it is a religous practice. Secularism in regards to government means that government can neither endorse nor oppress religion.

"Congress shall make no rule with respect to the establishment of religion, nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

[Pygoscelis]

I think it matters. It is not about special rules. It's to do with motivation. Some people cover their faces to commit a crime. Your already familiar with why Muslim women wear the Niqaab. So explain to me my would you want to cover your face?

There could be any number of reasons why. None of them relevant. I could be disfigured. I could be a street performer. I could simply be shy or want to hide my identity from passerbys.

If there are valid security concerns about people wearing masks in a given area, say a bank or airport etc, then it doesn't matter what mask they wear. I could dress in a muslim woman's outfit and cover myself from head to toe and who is to know I'm not a muslim woman? If there is a valid security concern, then there is a valid security concern and no special exceptions should be made for people claiming to be muslims. If there is no valid security concern then it is really nobody's business why I want to cover my face.

I'll give you another example to demonstrate my point. Some Sikh people carry a dagger for religious reasons. I know Sikh people are not going to hurt anyone with this dagger. However, if I was carrying a dagger outside the street, would you not be concerned? I'm not a Sikh, so I can't be carrying it for religious reasons. I'm carrying it for a different reason.

When this came to Ontario I was very much opposed to it, but then I looked at the law books and I realized that there is actually no law against me or any other non-sikh carrying a knife. There are gun ban laws. There are no knife ban laws (so long as you keep it sheathed that is), not in normal streets anyway. I very much do object to Sikhs entering court houses, banks, etc with their kirpans though. Again, there should be no special rules just because somebody claims to be and dresses like a Sikh.

This is an issue that really bothers me when people claim such special treatment over others, and one major reason why I am anti-religious.

[Ramadhan]

This is an issue that really bothers me when people claim such special treatment over others, and one major reason why I am anti-religious.

Does this mean that you are also anti-western government (french government) who have gone the complete other way, ie. denied people equal treatment?

[GuestFellow]

There could be any number of reasons why. None of them relevant. I could be disfigured. I could be a street performer. I could simply be shy or want to hide my identity from passerbys.

And those reasons are fine.

When this came to Ontario I was very much opposed to it, but then I looked at the law books and I realized that there is actually no law against me or any other non-sikh carrying a knife. There are gun ban laws. There are no knife ban laws (so long as you keep it sheathed that is), not in normal streets anyway. I very much do object to Sikhs entering court houses, banks, etc with their kirpans though. Again, there should be no special rules just because somebody claims to be and dresses like a Sikh.

I wonder if Sikhs would consider carrying plastic kirpans...

[Pygoscelis]

Does this mean that you are also anti-western government (french government) who have gone the complete other way, ie. denied people equal treatment?

Yes it does. See my earlier posts in this thread.

[Jedi_Mindset]

Here in Holland we've got a ban on niqab also, first france then belgium, now Holland. it's spreading but slowly by those zionist governments. u need to pay a 380 euros fine when they spot you with niqab here :raging:

[جوري]

It just serves to alienate the Muslim community further and then they come and whine about 'integration' .. These people have never been anything but racists.. as to why they choose to hide that behind some 'civility' 'democracy' mask is beyond me. They should just come out & voice their intolerance since they are already going the distance & making their intolerance the law!

[NobleMuslimUK]

I can see why people in a non muslim country would be uncomfortable with the niqab. This is best time for hijrah. Allah will reward the muslims with something better.

[abdullah_001]

I can see why people in a non muslim country would be uncomfortable with the niqab. This is best time for hijrah. Allah will reward the muslims with something better.

:sl:

Brother, this is exactly what I said a long time ago in a similar topic. It is time for Muslims to move from France, Holland and such, to Islamic countries, or at least countries where practicing religion is permitted.

[جوري]

makes it easier for them to carpet bomb us and call us collateral damage that way.. I get it, none of us can stand up and challenge their insta laws, even if we're natives to such countries.. sob7an Allah
where is it easier to practice Islam? Egypt? Syria? KSA? Yemen? Afghanistan? Iraq? Palestine? Tajikistan? Seems everywhere you go if you're a practicing Muslim, you're being slaughtered or pursued!

[Who Am I?]

makes it easier for them to carpet bomb us and call us collateral damage that way.. I get it, none of us can stand up and challenge their insta laws, even if we're natives to such countries.. sob7an Allah
where is it easier to practice Islam? Egypt? Syria? KSA? Yemen? Afghanistan? Iraq? Palestine? Tajikistan? Seems everywhere you go if you're a practicing Muslim, you're being slaughtered or pursued!

Yeah, they can't bomb us if we live next door to them, eh?

[جوري]

Yeah, they can't bomb us if we live next door to them, eh?

They other means when you live next door more creative than carpet bombing.

:w:

[Who Am I?]

They other means when you live next door more creative than carpet bombing.

:w:

You know I had a dream about this last week...

[A-Believer-25]

This is disgusting! Boycott France!

[SFatima]

You know I had a dream about this last week...

:skeleton:

this dream might mean something big.. I'm having a strange feeling after how they're singling out people and killing them where ever they are in the world, this has gone bigger than anything, and I wonder why us muslims just sit watch and cry. They have certainly changed their war tactics and make the world believe that its 'their' war ,and as if they're doing the whole world a great service by ridding it from a few nuts who have the guts to stand up and say whats right.

[جوري]

they'll keep doing it, until they create a schism, which is spoken about in the Quran by which Allah swt will distinguish the believers from the hypocrites and then huge wars will break out the biggest will be the 'mal7ama' and insha'Allah, Allah swt is promising us victory even if it will be hallow in a sense that there will be many lives lost..

and Allah swt knows best

:w:

[Al Qabayli]

as-salâmu `alaykum,

I think that we are in the same situation as the jews were between the two world wars. If we don't do anything, I let you imagine what will be happening then...

[جوري]

very true but the Jews became the force running the world after said events and I have no doubt after much oppression we will gain the upper hand.. This is the first period ever in history that we're scattered without a uniting ummah, and believe me it is their greatest fear & threat that our ummah would rise, when I was in Egypt this summer, every other day they would send envoys of satanists to make sure nothing positive (Islamic) comes out of the revolution. me & my family don't travel on the same plane all together so each one of us who boarded, boarded with a story to tell. I was sitting next to stinking Marines, my dad happened to travel with a bunch of missionaries he didn't even recognize people on that flight as middle easterners at all.. Every day they spend their money and their resources to debar men from the way of God.. and we're already told of what will become of them:

8:36] Lo! those who disbelieve spend their wealth in order that they may debar (men) from the way of Allah. They will spend it, then it will become an anguish for them, then they will be conquered. And those who disbelieve will be gathered unto hell,

:w:

[SFatima]

I know it aint relevent but should one even get married when it just looks like its a war out there all the time...:X cant figure a single way out of all this ummah haywire mess...its so chaotic :hmm:

[جوري]

I know it aint relevent but should one even get married when it just looks like its a war out there all the time...:X cant figure a single way out of all this ummah haywire mess...its so chaotic :hmm:

du3a is our weapon. I posted the story of Moses & the pharaoh for a reason.. 2:249------------------------------- How many a little company hath overcome a mighty host by Allah's leave! Allah is with the steadfast.

it isn't about weapons, might & soldiery, it is about righteousness, it is God that grants victory.. either way we really aren't small in number, what we need is unity & I think it will happen insha'Allah sis.. if you find a righteous brother then marry indeed.. perhaps Allah swt would bless you with Al mahdi or he who is like him.. he has to be born to a woman no?

:w:

[Futuwwa]

very true but the Jews became the force running the world after said events and I have no doubt after much oppression we will gain the upper hand..

Yeah, after (at least) one third of all the Jews in the world had been reduced into little piles of ash. One third. In relative numbers, that'd be comparable to 500 million Muslims getting slaughtered. I'm not so sure it would be worth it, even if we'd get world domination in the end.

[جوري]

Yeah, after (at least) one third of all the Jews in the world had been reduced into little piles of ash. One third. In relative numbers, that'd be comparable to 500 million Muslims getting slaughtered. I'm not so sure it would be worth it, even if we'd get world domination in the end.

Only Jews can account for their actual number, I doubt very much 6 mil of them lived in Germany at the time-- 6 mil would probably include the gypsies, Turks, homosexuals and whomever else Hitler desired to cleanse Germany. Be that as it may events will only ravel as they're meant to & we haven't much say in the matter.. indeed 'Almal7ama' would be a narrow win, for it's never about this Muslim or this Jew. It is about 3ibad Allah as'sale7een and we'll all be raised on our intent (I'd think about that long & hard)

best,

[Futuwwa]

Well, the typically cited 6 million isn't just about German Jews, but Jews from the entire territory under Nazi rule. Poland and the Soviet Union mostly. German Jews only accounted for about half a million of the entire toll.

[Who Am I?]

:sl:

This life is a test. We're born helpless and blind, and most people never open their eyes and never realise that we even have a purpose. Some of us figure out that we have a purpose, but they never figure out what it is. Some of us figure it out but don't know what to do about it. A very few figure it all out, and become who they are supposed to be.

That's what we have to do. We have to become better people, become who we're supposed to be. I just recently figured that out. I know what I have to do now, but I don't always know to do it. It's about saying and doing the right things. It's about being good to your fellow man. It's about loving those who hate us. Whether I am a Christian or a Muslim shouldn't matter. What matters is doing the right thing. What matters is becoming the right kind of person.