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YM Usrah Umar
09-26-2011, 12:21 AM
this all came from me watchin a film and the devil in the film basically which ever women he met...he'd fornicate with her, whatever guy he didnt like he'd get them instantly killed....what does islam say about, can he really do that?

or is the best thing iblis can do is whispering bad stuff to us?
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Abz2000
09-26-2011, 01:09 AM
it whispers to you - just as humans can,
it entices you - just as humans can
PAST THAT LINE OF FREEWILL...............................
they can possess you - just as humans now can.

there are satans among jinn and among men - read the last verse of the last chapter of the Quran

you may find this interesting:



imagine this process being reversed:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKULTRA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_paperclip

http://www.skewsme.com/cia.html#axzz1Z1BAQaTb
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Ramadhan
09-26-2011, 01:56 AM
All power is from Allah SWT.

The moment we think the other creature has the power over us (such as can bring death to us as they will), is the moment we venture into shirk.
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Abz2000
09-26-2011, 02:32 AM
yes brother Ramadan - it is true,
however there is something which does exist which ventures past the line of freewill - and even the Prophet (pbuh) was affected by it.
though we must bear in mind that life is a test from Allah, and that He knows and has power.

you cannot blame a murderer's actions on Allah, despite Allah having full power, because He gave us laws, and showed us what was good and bad, (the test of Adam as to what to avoid) and if we abide by them (these rules) the whole of humanity runs smoothly, if humans divert from the guidance (the manufacturer's manual) given, the appliance can malfunction.
you are correct that it is built on rules which cannot be broken and which Allah has full power over, but then there are rules where man has been given choice - and some choose to go to the limits of those rules - which make them go astray.

41. Mischief has appeared on land and sea because of (the meed) that the hands of men have earned,
that ((Allah)) may give them a taste of some of their deeds: in order that they may turn back (from Evil).
Quran 30:41

101. And when there came to them a Messenger from Allah, confirming what was with them,
a party of the people of the Book threw away the Book of Allah behind their backs, as if (it had been something) they did not know!
102. They followed what the satans recited over the kingdom of Solomon: but Solomon did not disbelieve, but the satans disbelieved,
teaching people Magic, and such things as came down at babylon to the angels Harut and Marut.
But neither of these taught anyone (Such things) without saying: "We are only for trial; so do not disbelieve."
They learned from them the means to sow discord between man and wife.
But they could not thus harm anyone except by Allah's permission.
And they learned what harmed them, not what profited them. And they knew that the buyers of (magic) would have no share in the happiness of the Hereafter. And vile was the price for which they did sell their souls, if only they knew!
103. If they had kept their Faith and guarded themselves from evil, far better had been the reward from their Lord,
if they but knew!
Quran 2:101-103

In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.1.
1. Say: I seek refuge with the Lord of the Dawn
2. From the evil of created things;
3. From the evil of Darkness as it overspreads;
4. From the evil of those who blow into knots (practise secret arts);
5. And from the evil of the envious one as he practises envy.
Quran 113



it is not a good topic to dwell too much on unless affected by it, but it sure does exist - even the evil ones who practise it give us short hidden messages.
and that it is built on rules which they cannot transgress - remember the story of the boy and the king? where the king could not kill him until Allah was ready to take him, that is a bypassing of the normal rules - which we call miracles.
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SFatima
09-26-2011, 06:28 AM
It can over power you only if you allow it to, but if you're somebody who religiously reads Sura Falak and Naas plenty of times in a day and shoof over yourself, its effects go and weaken, untill they are gone.
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YM Usrah Umar
09-26-2011, 11:16 AM
jazaks for the reply guys, its maybe then christian or jews (i said maybe) who think that iblis can fornicate or kill ppl too if wished but i dont kno...allah knows best
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Scimitar
09-26-2011, 03:00 PM
This video was made by a good brother of mine, named Mohammad (known on youtube as Bushwackk). I think you will all find this video quite enlightening in reference to the subject being discussed here:

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YM Usrah Umar
09-26-2011, 09:54 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
This video was made by a good brother of mine, named Mohammad (known on youtube as Bushwackk). I think you will all find this video quite enlightening in reference to the subject being discussed here:

oh....my...god....is this video for real? im not denying it or anythn but i guess most of us 50% chance are jus gonna think "this is fake"?
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YM Usrah Umar
09-26-2011, 10:06 PM
i understand jinns can harms us but iblis himslf however....can he?
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Abz2000
09-27-2011, 12:21 AM
they work for iblis, he doesn't always do the direct work,
you don't see obama or bush murdering people - even though it is they who are doing it.


regarding the above vid..............
it seemed a bit bait- the jinn calls their leader dajjal (DECEIVER)?
no that's the name the righteous use to describe him, not the satanists.
the satanists call him prince of darkness and the illuminated one etc.
anyways - it just felt off key and bait.

but it is true - they do serve him:
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alluminati
09-27-2011, 12:50 AM
Naw i discovered this maybe two day ago, Ilbis/Shaitan decieves you, so essentially you know how Allah the master of all, he gives us strength to walk through the valley of shadows and guides us, but anytime we stray we risk giving up the strength and gifts Allah gives us for evil uses, so essentially, Ilbis is really just a smooth talker, and you end up giving him yourself letting him possess you (he can only possess after people willingly follow him). Allah knows all things.
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Scimitar
09-27-2011, 03:30 AM
Originally Posted by YM Usrah Umar
oh....my...god....is this video for real? im not denying it or anythn but i guess most of us 50% chance are jus gonna think "this is fake"?
Yes, this is for real. The brother in the video is an Algerian brother named Abdul Raouf - far as I'm aware, he's the only one on the exorcism circuit who releases the Jinn even if they don't accept Islam. He is pretty well known by Muslims, and the Jinns know of him. With regard to Brother Mohammed (youtube user: Bushwackk), the brother is the one who made the infamous Solomons Temple series on youtube, and like me, affiliated with the same group of people who made the arrivals... Though I'm nowhere as near important as Bro Bushwackk is.

If you haven't seen the Sololmons Temple series then let me get for you, the first part.

This is just the intro/ part one (it's very short):



And here is part two (it really starts from here):



I seriously recommend subscribing to his channel.
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جوري
09-27-2011, 03:37 AM
( إن عبادي ليس لك عليهم سلطان إلا من اتبعك من الغاوين وإن جهنم لموعدهم أجمعين لها سبعة أبواب لكل باب منهم جزء مقسوم ) .

قوله تعالى : ( إن عبادي ليس لك عليهم سلطان إلا من اتبعك من الغاوين وإن جهنم لموعدهم أجمعين لها سبعة أبواب لكل باب منهم جزء مقسوم ) .

[ ص: 151 ] اعلم أن إبليس لما قال : ( لأزينن لهم في الأرض ولأغوينهم أجمعين إلا عبادك منهم المخلصين ) أوهم هذا الكلام أن له سلطانا على عباد الله الذين يكونون من المخلصين ، فبين تعالى في هذه الآية أنه ليس له سلطان على أحد من عبيد الله سواء كانوا مخلصين أو لم يكونوا مخلصين ، بل من اتبع منهم إبليس باختياره صار متبعا له ، ولكن حصول تلك المتابعة أيضا ليس لأجل أن إبليس يقهره على تلك المتابعة أو يجبره عليها والحاصل في هذا القول : أن إبليس أوهم أن له على بعض عباد الله سلطانا ، فبين تعالى كذبه فيه ، وذكر أنه ليس له على أحد منهم سلطان ولا قدرة أصلا ، ونظير هذه الآية قوله تعالى حكاية عن إبليس أنه قال : ( وما كان لي عليكم من سلطان إلا أن دعوتكم فاستجبتم لي ) [إبراهيم : 22] وقال تعالى في آية أخرى : ( إنه ليس له سلطان على الذين آمنوا وعلى ربهم يتوكلون إنما سلطانه على الذين يتولونه والذين هم به مشركون ) [النحل : 100] قال الجبائي : هذه الآية تدل على بطلان قول من زعم أن الشيطان والجن يمكنهم صرع الناس ، وإزالة عقولهم كما يقوله العامة ، وربما نسبوا ذلك إلى السحرة قال : وذلك خلاف ما نص الله تعالى عليه ، وفي الآية قول آخر ، وهو أن إبليس لما قال : ( إلا عبادك منهم المخلصين ) فذكر أنه لا يقدر على إغواء المخلصين صدقه الله في هذا الاستثناء فقال : ( إن عبادي ليس لك عليهم سلطان إلا من اتبعك من الغاوين ) فلهذا قال الكلبي : العباد المذكورون في هذه الآية هم الذين استثناهم إبليس .
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Abz2000
09-27-2011, 05:01 AM
During the stay of the Prophet(sallallahu alayhi wasallam) in Madinah a Jew cast a magic spell over him.The main reason for this was hasad(envy).

The incident narrated in Musnadi Ahmad is that a Jew performed magic over the Prophet(sallallahu alayhi wasallam) through the effect of which he became ill. Jibraeel(Alaiyhis salaam) came and informed the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasallam that a Jew has performed magic over him on a certain object which is in such and such well. The Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasallam sent men to the said well. They brought the object (upon which) magic was spelled from the well with knots in it. The Prophet(sallallahu alayhi wasallam) recited the Surahs (Falaq and Naas) and opened the knots and immediately he recovered fully and was up on his feet. (Although the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasallam knew from Jibraeel(A.S.) the name of the Jew, but because the habit of personal vengeance never existed in his life) he never said a word to him nor were any signs of complaint (or displeasure) seen on his auspicious face while he (the Jew) was present. (The Jew being a hypocrite was regular in attending the gatherings of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasallam).

In the narration of Bukhari from Aaishah(radhiyallahu anha) it is stated;
Magic was worked on Allah's Messenger(sallallahu alayhi wasallam). (The effect was such that) he used to think that he had sexual relations with his wives while he actually had not. (One of the narrators,Sufyaan said: That is the hardest kind of magic as it has such an effect.)

Then one day he said, "O Aaishah! Do you know that Allah has instructed me concerning the matter I asked Him about? Two men came to me (in my dream) and one of them sat near my head and the other sat near my feet. The one near my head asked the other. 'What is wrong with this man?' The latter replied, 'He is under the effect of magic.' The first one asked, 'Who has worked magic on him?' The other replied, 'Labeed Ibne Aasim, a man from Bani Zurayq who was an ally of the Jews and was a hypocrite.' The first one asked, 'What material (did he use)?' The other replied, 'A comb and the hair stuck to it.' The first one asked, 'Where (is that)?' The other replied, 'In a skin of pollen of a male date palm tree kept under a stone in the well of
Zarwaan."

So the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasallam sent some companions to that well and took out those things and said "That was the well which was shown to me (in the dream). Its water looked like the infusion of Henna leaves and its date-palm trees looked like the heads of devils."

(notice the devil horns sign on the church of satan's founder's hand, and the hebrew letters in the pentagram behind him)

The Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasallam added, "Then that thing was taken out." I said (to the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasallam), "Why do you not let the people know about it?" He said, "Allah has cured me; I dislike to let evil spread among my people." (i.e. if the Jew was exposed, people would have harmed him or even killed him).

According to a narration in Musnadi Ahmad, this illness of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasallam lasted for six months. In some narrations it is also stated that those Companions who came to know the fact that this was the work of Labeed Ibne Aasim, asked the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasallam,"Why don't we kill this wretched one?" The Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasallam gave the same reply as the one to Aaishah radhiyallahu anha.

According to a narration of Imaam Tha'alabi, a Jewish boy served and attended to the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasallam. The hypocrite Jew allured him and he brought a few teeth from Rasulullah sallallahu alayhi wasallam 's comb and hair stuck to it. The Jew made eleven knots on a thread and tied a needle in each knot.He then enclosed it in a skin of pollen of a male date palm tree and buried it under a stone in a well.

Allah revealed these two chapters(Surah Falaq and Surah Naas) consisting of eleven verses. When the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasallam recited a verse of these two surahs a knot opened and thus upon recitation of the total eleven verses all the knots opened, and suddenly a burden-like heavy load was removed from the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasallam. (All the narrations are quoted from Ibne Katheer). -

Commentary
The chapter Surah Falaq and the following chapter Surah Naas, both were revealed at the same time upon the same incident. Haafiz Ibne Qayyim has written the commentary of these two chapters together as a unit. In it he writes,"The benefits and blessings of these two chapters and the people's need towards them is such that no human can become independent of them. These chapters have great effect in removing (the effects of) magic, witchcraft, evil eye and all spiritual and physical calamities. And if we understand the reality, then the human is in more need of it than his breathing, food,clothing and everything else.






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Abz2000
09-27-2011, 05:42 AM
and anyone who may think all this is just hot air would be advised to look into Isaac Newton's occult studies,
this is the man who was into science and astrology, who made known to the world some of the laws of motion etc,
surely not someone who wasted time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_N...occult_studies

In addition to scripture, Newton also relied upon various ancient and contemporary sources while studying the temple of Solomon.
He believed that many ancient sources were endowed with sacred wisdom and that the proportions of many of their temples were in themselves sacred. This belief would lead Newton to examine many architectural works of Hellenistic Greece, as well as Roman sources such as Vitruvius, in a search for their occult knowledge. This concept, often termed "prisca sapientia" (sacred wisdom), was a common belief of many scholars during Newton's lifetime.


6. We have indeed decked the lower heaven with beauty (in) the stars,-
7. (For beauty) and for guard against all obstinate rebellious evil spirits,
8. (So) they should not strain their ears in the direction of the Exalted Assembly but be cast away from every side,
9. Repulsed, for they are under a perpetual penalty,
10. Except such as snatch away something by stealth, and they are pursued by a flaming fire, of piercing brightness.
Quran 37:6-10

these people are seriously into this stuff and includes presidents, prime ministers, kings, princes etc:

The Emerald Tablets of Thoth the Atlantean

Translation & Interpretation by Doreal

A LITERAL TRANSLATION AND INTERPRETATION OF ONE OF THE MOST ANCIENT AND SECRET OF THE GREAT WORKS OF THE ANCIENT WISDOM

“Now shall I speak to thee knowledge ancient beyond the thought of thy race.
Know ye that we of the Great Race had and have knowledge that is more than man’s.
Wisdom we gained from the star-born races, wisdom and knowledge far beyond man’s.
Down to us had descended the masters of wisdom as far beyond us as I am from thee.
List ye now while I give ye wisdom. Use it and free thou shalt be.


Know ye that in the pyramid I builded are the Keys that shall show ye the Way into life.
Aye, draw ye a line from the great image I builded, to the apex of the pyramid, built as a gateway.
Draw ye another opposite in the same angle and direction.
Dig ye and find that which I have hidden.
There shall ye find the underground entrance to the secrets hidden before ye were men.”



the jinn (iblis etc) were created long before man (adam).


.....And they learned what harmed them, not what profited them.
And they knew that the buyers of (magic) would have no share in the happiness of the Hereafter.
And vile was the price for which they did sell their souls, if only they knew!
If they had kept their Faith and guarded themselves from evil, far better had been the reward from their Lord,
if they but knew!
Quran 2:102-103

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Scimitar
09-27-2011, 01:00 PM
I like your analytical avenue of thought here Abz2000.

With regard to astrology, most people think that it is simply to do with personal fortune or misfortune, it's not as simple as that though. Let me explain: On WUP-FORUM, there was a thread named Elenin (about the comet etc) and members were trying to predict when it would get to earth, and more importantly - what effect it will have on it, and relayed this with "The Blast" we have been told about in scripture. Something didn't feel right in that thread... I mean, here were people who were trying to predict the fate of all of humanity, and attributing it all to cosmic influence. Anyway, in my study of the matter - What I discovered was that anyone who attributed causation to astronomy, becomes an astrologer - and whoever becomes an astrologer, is gulty of Astrological Causation... and Astrological Causation - is shirk.

I tried to warn the members there of their folly, but many are young testosterone fuelled youngsters as well as sisters who have an affinity with the stars - and they didn't "want" to understand... So I made this video instead for them:



The title of this thread is "Can Iblis Overpower Us?" ... when people engage in shirk, does he need to even try? All he and his minions have to do is whisper to our nafs and if our nafs is corrupt, it will do all the evil suggested to it. Alhamdulillah, the video made the heaviest contributers in the Elenin thread do a U-Turn in their desire to attribute end time scenarios to astrological causation.

Wahuwa Ala Kulli Shay'in Kadeer (and HE has power over all things).
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Abz2000
09-27-2011, 03:34 PM
you are correct brother, however they do unlawfully get a tid-bit which only Allah allows them to snatch, and whisper it into their worshippers with a bunch of lies, then get them to do their work for them in leading mankind astray - and anyone who falls into this has indeed become a mushrik.
but to believe that evil exists and to not fall into it is not shirk.
if you see the positions of the stars as a clock by which things may possibly be measured - then it may make sense that those satans who snatch away information from the angels by eavesdropping use the position of the stars and planets etc as reference points and pass it on to those who fall into the worship of evil. (research pyramid constellations) and geometry of masons. - and see the blue hadith below.
also notice how many in influential positions throughout history have used and worshipped names of objects in the cosmos.
saturday, sunday, orion pictures.

i found this on a masonic site, i carefully learn how their minds work through finding what they work on - just like google does to us - see my new world order page for more info:
http://abz2000.com/newworldorder.aspx

ASTROLOGY
A whence demanding the respect of the scholar, notwithstanding its designation as a black art, and, in a reflective sense, an occult science; a system of divination foretelling results by the relative positions of the planets and other heavenly bodies toward the earth. Men of eminence have adhered to the doctrines of astrology as a science. It is a study well considered in, and forming an important part of, the ceremonies of the Philosophus, or fourth grade of the First Order of the Society of Rosicrucians. Astrology has been deemed the twin science of astronomy, grasping knowledge from the heavenly bodies, and granting a proper understanding of many of the startling forces in nature. It is claimed that the constellations of the zodiac govern the earthly animals, and that every star has its peculiar nature, property, and function, the seal and character of which it impresses through its rays upon plants, minerals, and animal life. This science was known to the ancients as the divine art (see Magic).
End.

it is Allah who governs these things, and i believe that the constellations don't govern anything, but their locations - like a clock are milestones known to Allah, and some of this news is given to angels.
(an example can be the night of decree, the day of eid, the months, the years, the rising of the sun from the west)
we say "such and such is coming at 5 o'clock - God Willing", we don't know for sure - and are attributing the knowledge to God - but we sure as hell are not saying that the clock will make the person come.
i'm sure you'd agree that this is not shirk, however going to the jinns and devil worshippers for this guidance is not just shirk but can be kufr.

102. They followed what the Satans gave out against the kingdom of Solomon: but Solomon did not disbelieve, but the satans disbelieved, teaching men Magic, and such things as came down at babylon to the angels Harut and Marut. But neither of these taught anyone (Such things) without saying: "We are only for trial; so do not disbelieve."
Quran 2:102


it must be emphasised that only Allah knows the unseen and any other information on it is what He has allowed to be known,
and anyone other than a Prophet who relates it should not be trusted as 100% accurate, we should not put our trust in their predictions.
and we should not seek their guidance as they require misguidance as a pledge before they even give snippets of "guidance" Allah may have allowed them to steal.

they plot and plan,
and Allah too plans,
and Allah is the best of planners.

303. Chapter: The prohibition against going to soothsayers, astrologers, diviners and looking for omens

1668. 'A'isha said, "Some people asked the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, about soothsayers, and he said, 'They have nothing.' They said, 'O Messenger of Allah, they tell us something about those of us who are alive and then it sometimes comes true.' The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, 'That is a word of truth which a jinn got hold of and then cast into the ear of his helper, but they mix a hundred lies with it.'"
[Agreed upon]

In a variant of al-Bukhari, 'A'isha heard the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, say,
"The angels descend into the clouds mentioning something which has been decreed in heaven.
Then Shaytan eavesdrops and hears it and then reveals it to the soothsayers. Along with it, they tell a hundred lies from themselves."


1669. Safiyya bint Abi 'Ubayd reported from one of the wives of the Prophet, from that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "If anyone goes to a diviner and asks about something and believes it, his prayer will not be accepted for forty days." [Muslim]

1670. Qabisa ibn al-Mukhariq said, "I heard the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, say, 'Divining, augury and taking omens from the flight of birds are part of idolatry.'" [Abu Dawud]

1671. Ibn 'Abbas said, "The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said,
'Anyone who takes knowledge from the stars, takes a branch of sorcery
and his sorcery increases according to the amount of knowledge he gains.'" [Abu Dawud]

The three degrees of Craft or Blue Lodge Freemasonry are those of:
  1. Entered Apprentice – the degree of an Initiate, which makes one a Freemason;
  2. Fellow Craft – an intermediate degree, involved with learning; and
  3. Master Mason – the "third degree", a necessity for participation in most aspects of Masonry.
The degrees represent stages of personal development. No Freemason is told that there is only one meaning to the allegories; as a Freemason works through the degrees and studies their lessons, he interprets them for himself, his personal interpretation being bounded only by the Constitution within which he works.








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YM Usrah Umar
09-27-2011, 09:20 PM
No offence to those who posted freemason illumaniti stuff but i wasnt looking for them but jazaks for the lniks tho

my question was can iblis harm us lik we kno jins can but can "IBLIS" lik go in our bodys or fight us physically? maybe its not worthwhile going into this or maybe i should ask a scholar shekih or imam or sumthn
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Scimitar
09-27-2011, 09:27 PM
Iblis has no reason to go into your body... why would he waste his time with you when his army is comprised of Men and Jinn?

The men are the Sahirs (evil magicians) who do black magic by calling Jinns to go harm someone - they way these Jinn harm people are many. only one form is by possession.

The Jinn, sometimes attack humans out of vengeance - other times they are attracted to humans. Both scenarios lead to the human in question being worse off.

Satan/Iblis; His role is to oversee his minions. And satan only directly attacks a human when that human is able to stand up to all other Jinn... even then, more often than not, satan will leave you alone. His role nowadays os one of ruling over the Jinn and the freemasons. The freemasons - at the highest level commit satanic rituals and worship satan.

The reason why I posted these videos is to give you and anyone else here, an opportunity into finding out the "why" and the "how" of all this demonic/magic etc takes place here, in modern times - beleive it or not, but these masons are the ones who know magic. At the highest levels, they are the ones doing it.
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Danah
09-27-2011, 10:03 PM
Their powers are greater than those of man, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“An ‘Ifreet (strong one) from the jinn said: “I will bring it [the throne of the Queen of Saba’] to you before you rise from your place” [al-Naml 27:39]
There was a great distance between Sulaymaan (peace be upon him) and the Queen of Saba’ (Sheba). Allaah has enabled the jinn to change shape and to fly, etc, but despite their great powers they have no control over the righteous slaves of Allaah. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “Verily, My slaves (i.e. the true believers of Islamic Monotheism) — you have no authority over them. And All-Sufficient is your Lord as a Guardian” [al-Isra’ 17:65]

“And he (Iblees - Satan) had no authority over them, except that We might test him who believes in the Hereafter, from him who is in doubt about it”
[Saba’ 34:21]

Even the Shaytaan acknowledged this and said:
“[Iblees (Satan)] said: ‘O my Lord! Because You misled me, I shall indeed adorn the path of error for them (mankind) on the earth, and I shall mislead them all. Except Your chosen, (guided) slaves among them’” [al-Hijr 15:39-40 – interpretation of the meaning]

Rather he has control over those people who agree with his kufr and follow him willingly, as Allaah tells us (interpretation of the meaning) :
“Certainly, you shall have no authority over My slaves, except those who follow you of the Ghaawoon (Mushrikoon and those who go astray, criminals, polytheists, and evildoers)” [al-Hijr 15:42]

Allaah may give them [the jinn] power over believers because of their sins, as the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Allaah is with the qaadi (judge) so long as he is not unjust; if he is unjust then Allaah has nothing to do with him and will cause the Shaytaan to stay with him.” Narrated by al-Haakim and al-Bayhaqi; classed as hasan by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Jaami’, 1823.

The Muslim must, above all else, arm himself with the weapon of faith and righteous deeds, for these are the best provision he may have and the best means of foiling the plots of the devils among mankind and the jinn.

You have to strengthen your relationship with Allaah, for He is the One on Whom you should depend. Remember Allaah a great deal in all situations, and strive to keep your tongue busy constantly with dhikr (remembrance of Allaah). No one can find any better protection against the Shaytaan than the remembrance of Allaah. It was narrated in a saheeh report from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) that Allaah enjoined five things upon Yahya ibn Zakariya, which he was to do and to command the Children of Israel to do, one of which was: “I command you to remember Allaah, for the likeness of that is that of a man whose enemy comes after him, until he comes to a strong fortress where he protects himself from him. Similarly, a person cannot protect himself against the Shaytaan except by remembering Allaah.” Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi.

Constantly recite the dhikrs narrated from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), such as the dhikr when entering the toilet, when having intercourse, when hearing the braying of a donkey, when entering the house, in the morning and the evening, when going to sleep, and in other circumstances and at other times for which a specific dhikr has been narrated from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

These dhikrs have been compiled in books such as al-Adhkaar by al-Nawawi, al-Kalim al-Tayyib by Ibn Taymiyah, and Husn al-Muslim by al-Qahtaani [the later is available with English transliteration and translation under the title “Fortress of the Muslim – Invocations from the Qur’an and Sunnah”, published by Darussalam, Riyadh – Translator].

You should also read a lot of Qur’aan in the house, especially Soorat al-Baqarah. Ahmad (7762) and Muslim (780) narrated from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Do not make your houses (like) graveyards, for the Shaytaan flees from a house in which Soorat al-Baqarah is read.”

You should also purify your house of everything in which there is disobedience towards Allaah, such as keeping images and dogs. Abu Talhah (may Allaah be pleased with him) narrated that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The angels do not enter a house in which there is a dog or an image.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 3322; Muslim, 2106.

If there are no angels in the house, it will become a dwelling for the devils.


http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/42073
Reply

Abz2000
09-27-2011, 11:21 PM
the full manifestation of Iblis' power in the human form is the Dajjal (Anti-Christ), and he will have certain powers with which to put to test the claim of faith through unprecedented persecution - so - yes, it is Iblis the commander behind it, not necessarily the one actually doing all the actions.

the reason for two of us going into detail on the satanists is because we seem to have come to an understanding that it's a loop.
one is the spirit form , the other is the human form.

and these satanists are behind the Dajjal - which comes back round to your question of power of Iblis.
  • Ali was reported to have said:
His right eye will be punctured, and his left eye would be raised to his forehead and will be sparkling like a star.
Only the believers will be able to read the word ‘Kufr’ [disbelief], inscribed in bold letters, on his forehead.



united states dollar and great seal -------------------------mi5 logo ------------------------------------- freemasonic pyramid


now ask yourself how much control they hold over you, and how much legislation (rules) they make for you.

57 قُلْ إِنِّي عَلَىٰ بَيِّنَةٍ مِّن رَّبِّي وَكَذَّبْتُم بِهِ ۚ مَا عِندِي مَا تَسْتَعْجِلُونَ بِهِ ۚ إِنِ الْحُكْمُ إِلَّا لِلَّهِ ۖ يَقُصُّ الْحَقَّ ۖ وَهُوَ خَيْرُ الْفَاصِلِينَ Quran 6:57

57. Say: "For me, I (work) on a clear sign from my Lord, but ye reject Him. What ye would see hastened, is not in my power.
The rule is for none but Allah. He declares the truth, and He is the best of judges."
Reply

alluminati
09-28-2011, 12:12 AM
Another thing about the freemasons: the secrets of the temple of Solomon also tell people about magnetism and such, there were technologies way way back (look up ancient greek computer), there was allegedly also anti-gravity devices based on mathematics and such, it is wise to note this pattern: look up civilization timeline

all of these civilzations feature sun-cult worship, the use of paganism/satanism in forms of both druidism and other magical rituals, and they all feature sacrifices and the use of the same tactics as today's illuminati (which is simply the result of generation from generation of satanism passed down, inquire about the 13 bloodlines and the prominence of pythagoras and the his cult.)

The sheer irony about the freemasons is that accordingly at one time they were righteous since they originated from some teachings of the prophet Solomon (may peace be with him), which was later corrupted by other societies, and of course resulted in a change from the masons who were originally believers of Allah into the satanic "free"masons who were now part of the luciferian dogma. It is indeed the mechanisms of the devil, because he does not attack directly, he simply slithers like the serpent and poisons peoples minds and bodies and takes control, and many people do not see him. He has many faces but only one head, very dangerous, ranging and from people to empires devouted to the worship of hatred and war and blood. Pay attention brothers and sisters because history is repeating itself with different names and different people.
Reply

YaAqsa
09-28-2011, 02:06 AM
Originally Posted by abz2000
yes brother Ramadan - it is true,
however there is something which does exist which ventures past the line of freewill - and even the Prophet (pbuh) was affected by it.
:bism:

Qur'an 17:47 We know best what (intention) it is that they listen with as they listen to you, and as they have private conferences, as the unjust/wrongdoers say, "Decidedly you are following (none) except a man bewitched."

Qur'an 53:3-4 "Nor does he speak from [his own] inclination. It is not but a revelation revealed,"

Bukhari Volume 4, Book 53, Number 400: Narrated 'Aisha: Once the Prophet was bewitched so that he began to imagine that he had done a thing which in fact he had not done.

Astagfirullah, may Allah SWT protect us from ignorance, shaytan, and misguidance, ameen.

Prophet(sawaws) was never bewitched, or else Qur'an is wrong, astagfirullah naudhubilah

:salamext:
Reply

Abz2000
09-28-2011, 04:11 AM
i see your leaning towards insulting the family of the Prophet (pbuh) and his blessed companions,
it is a documented fact that the disbelieving jew who sought protection from jinn did use black-magic on the Messenger of Allah (pbuh).

it happened on an occasion and he was given the solution to that issue as an example to his nation.
what that above verse you referred to meant was that the Quraish were saying that the Quran was being revealed by jinn who fully controlled all the actions of the Prophet (pbuh), when the incident here was totally unrelated - and the next verse indicates your position:

See what similes they strike for thee: but they have gone astray, and never can they find a way.
Quran 17:48

anyone who curses the family of the Prophet (pbuh) is to be lashed in Islam.
Reply

Scimitar
09-28-2011, 04:32 AM
Originally Posted by alluminati
The sheer irony about the freemasons is that accordingly at one time they were righteous since they originated from some teachings of the prophet Solomon.
These teaching NEVER originated from the teaching of Prophet Sulaiman (AS).

Sorry bro, you're wrong about that - you speak in overtly generalised terms. Freemasonry was started in the latter part of the 11 century AD. Fact. What you are referring to are those practitioners of magic who were around at the time of Sulaiman (AS), these Magicians never followed Sulaimans (AS) teachings.

These magicians were not a "brotherhood" or "fraternity" like the freemasonic movement is. The magi of Sulaimans (AS) time were in it for themselves, and despised other magi. The magi by their very nature are fiercely proud and arrogant folk... Whereas, freemasonry being a fraternity - allows for a gradual indoctrination into rituals which allow them to do magic.

The difference being - Magic was an easily accessible (although forbidden) during the time of Sulaiman (AS) - but today, it's kept under close guard by those in the know (i.e: 66th degree + masonry, when you get to illuminati level, you're a patron of the occult arts).

This is a movie about Sulaiman (AS) made by Muslims. What you'll find is an historical account, backed by Quranic ayah and from Islamic knowledge regarding the time of Sulaiman (AS).



It's not the full story of Sulaiman (AS) but for a movie, it makes the point in quite a nice way.

For a further account and research into the history of Magic, read Ibn Taymiyyahs essay on the Jinn. English translation by Abu Ameenah Bilal Phillips.
Reply

Abz2000
09-28-2011, 05:29 AM
the masons do however trace their roots back to the temple of solomon, and so do the knights templar, and the church of satan.

their allegories are also concerning the building, and their lodges are named after solomon (solomon's lodge etc), however, they claim solomon enslaved them and made them work slave labour - and going back to the Quran - we find that Solomon (pbuh) did tie the jinns in fetters and make them work.
Reply

YaAqsa
09-28-2011, 10:59 AM
Originally Posted by abz2000
i see your leaning towards insulting the family of the Prophet (pbuh) and his blessed companions,
it is a documented fact that the disbelieving jew who sought protection from jinn did use black-magic on the Messenger of Allah (pbuh).

it happened on an occasion and he was given the solution to that issue as an example to his nation.
what that above verse you referred to meant was that the Quraish were saying that the Quran was being revealed by jinn who fully controlled all the actions of the Prophet (pbuh), when the incident here was totally unrelated - and the next verse indicates your position:

See what similes they strike for thee: but they have gone astray, and never can they find a way.
Quran 17:48

anyone who curses the family of the Prophet (pbuh) is to be lashed in Islam.
Brother, by claiming that the Prophet(sawaws) was bewitched, you not only are insulting the Prophet(sawaws), but also rejecting numerous Ayats in the Qur'an, and then claim that I'm the one in error.

Qur'an 5:67 "O Messenger, announce that which has been revealed to you from your Lord, and if you do not, then you have not conveyed His message. And Allah will protect you from the people. Indeed, Allah does not guide the disbelieving people."

Allah(SWT) says in Qur'an that He protects Muhammad(sawaws) from the people.

Musa(AS) was similarly protected by Allah SWT, according to Qur'an, from magic Qur'an 10:77 "Musa (Moses) said: "Say you (this) about the truth when it has come to you? Is this magic? But the magicians will never be successful." "

Al-Razi, one of the major Sunni scholars of tafsir writes in his book of Tafsir al-Kabir 16/32/187, records the following: Majority of Muslims have claimed that the Holy Prophet (S) was bewitched by a Jew. Be it known to you that the Mu`tazilite have refuted this claim, which opposes Almighty Allah’s saying, ‘And Allah will protect you from the people.’

Quoting Tafsir ibn Kathir on 17:47, Allah tells His Prophet about what the leaders of Quraysh discussed when they came and listened to him reciting Qur'an in secret, without their people knowing about it. They said that he was Mashur which according to the better-known view means someone affected by magic (Sihr); it may also mean a man who has a lung, i.e., a mere human being, as if they were saying that if you follow Muhammad, you will only be following a human being. This second suggestion does not sound correct, because what they meant here was that he was under the influence of Sihr (magic) which made him see dreams in which he learned these words that he recited. Some of them said he was a poet, or a soothsayer, or crazy, or a sorcerer.

You gave your own tafsir which disagreed with Ibn Kathir's tafseer. You claimed the ayat was revealed about a Jew bewitching the Prophet(sawaws), and you pushed forward that belief, whereas Ibn Kathir says it was revealed in relation to the leaders of Quraysh who went secretly in the night to listen to the Qur'an be recited by Muhammad(sawaws), and he did not in this part of his commentary push the idea of the Prophet(sawaws) being bewitched, a claim which has been amply refuted.

Qur'an 23:88 Say: In Whose hand is the dominion over all things and He protecteth, while against Him there is no protection, if ye have knowledge?

Qur'an 23:89 They will say: Unto Allah (all that belongeth). Say: How then are ye bewitched?

Qur'an 23:90 Nay, but We have brought them the Truth, and lo! they are liars.

And again, in Qur'an 25:8 Or (why is not) treasure thrown down unto him, or why hath he not a paradise from whence to eat? And the evil-doers say: Ye are but following a man bewitched.

Tafsir ibn Kathir says, Allah said:

(See how they coin similitudes for you, so they have gone astray,) meaning, they accused you and belied you when they said that you were a sorcerer or bewitched or crazy or a liar or a poet, but all of these are false ideas. Everyone who has the slightest understanding will recognize that they are lying.

Allahu akbar.
Reply

YM Usrah Umar
09-28-2011, 11:08 AM
maybe a stupid question but is the temple of solomon actually the real 1 that belongs to suleman (as) or is this fake? have the jews completely changed the inside
Reply

Abz2000
09-28-2011, 01:44 PM
It was apparently first built by prophet Jacob (pbuh), and then expanded by prophet Solomon (pbuh).
The remains of the older building has sunk down with time, It was also once destroyed (razed to the ground) by Nebuchadnezzar then rebuilt.

here it is now:



And to the person seeking discord and division in the faith, I won't even reply.
My post already speaks for itself,
Peace be to you, we seek not the ignorant.
But purify your heart - or just as the messiah will kill the Jews,
The Mahdi you await will kill you.

....and don't start that Sunni Shia thing with me because I'm not from any sect,
I just try to be a sincere Muslim who follows the messenger (pbuh).
Reply

YaAqsa
09-29-2011, 11:14 AM
Actually, I acknowledge the suffering of the Prophets(as) as part of their test, which they succeeded.

However, being injured, suffering, being tested through trials, is not the same as being bewitched and being controlled by Shaytan or under someone else's influence, "doing a thing which you do not remember doing".

I thought we'd have an intelligent conversation, but you've forgone intellect in favor of cursing and emotion. You're now just being insulting to me, so I'll end the conversation here.

I've given ample evidence already to support my stance, you've continued failing to disprove it, only posting your angry emotional rhetoric without supporting evidence of your own. I'll let the people who read this decide for themselves, as we're only having a peaceful discussion and not fighting as you seem to be doing with me.

To summarize my point for any intellectual mind reading this, the Prophet(sawaws) can suffer and be attacked and even be murdered and be spit on, all of this could be within the Divine Will (Qadr) of Allah SWT, but for the Prophet(sawaws) to do some sin himself would be against everything in the Qur'an, when Allah SWT says that he is the best example to follow, that he doesn't speak of his own desire -- it is only a revelation revealed, that Allah is protecting him, that Allah hates those who preach something but do not practice it, etc...

The Prophet(sawaws) however, CANNOT be controlled by other people, he cannot be cursed and bewitched by Shaytan or any other creature. However, some very confused and low-faith individuals have attributed such humiliation and impossibility to the Prophet(sawaws) as we read of so many cases where the Prophet(sawaws) is said to have been influenced by Shaytan, made mistakes, forgotten Surahs, forgotten Salat, and behaved in a bad manner which is not conducive to the Qur'an and Sunnah that we have thousands of evidences for.

“What occurred with suratul Najm and its recitation ‘These are the lofty (idols), verily their intercession is sought after’ is well known amongst the Salaf; that this was recited by Rasulullah and then Allah abrogated it.”
Minhaj Sunnah, Volume 2 page 409


So if we say, without proof, that the Prophet(sawaws) was bewitched, then we allow for nonsensical narrations as the above to enter our Deen, then the Zionists use these fabricated narrations which you have willingly believed in, against all evidence and against all logic and against Qur'an, to attack Islam and continue to oppress Muslims.

Come to Haqq. Allahuma sullee 'ala Muhammad wa alee Muhammad.

Asalaamu alaikum.
Reply

Al-Mufarridun
09-29-2011, 11:39 AM
Originally Posted by YaAqsa
Actually, I acknowledge the suffering of the Prophets(as) as part of their test, which they succeeded.

However, being injured, suffering, being tested through trials, is not the same as being bewitched and being controlled by Shaytan or under someone else's influence, "doing a thing which you do not remember doing".

I thought we'd have an intelligent conversation, but you've forgone intellect in favor of cursing and emotion. You're now just being insulting to me, so I'll end the conversation here.

I've given ample evidence already to support my stance, you've continued failing to disprove it, only posting your angry emotional rhetoric without supporting evidence of your own. I'll let the people who read this decide for themselves, as we're only having a peaceful discussion and not fighting as you seem to be doing with me.

To summarize my point for any intellectual mind reading this, the Prophet(sawaws) can suffer and be attacked and even be murdered and be spit on, all of this could be within the Divine Will (Qadr) of Allah SWT, but for the Prophet(sawaws) to do some sin himself would be against everything in the Qur'an, when Allah SWT says that he is the best example to follow, that he doesn't speak of his own desire -- it is only a revelation revealed, that Allah is protecting him, that Allah hates those who preach something but do not practice it, etc...

The Prophet(sawaws) however, CANNOT be controlled by other people, he cannot be cursed and bewitched by Shaytan or any other creature. However, some very confused and low-faith individuals have attributed such humiliation and impossibility to the Prophet(sawaws) as we read of so many cases where the Prophet(sawaws) is said to have been influenced by Shaytan, made mistakes, forgotten Surahs, forgotten Salat, and behaved in a bad manner which is not conducive to the Qur'an and Sunnah that we have thousands of evidences for.

“What occurred with suratul Najm and its recitation ‘These are the lofty (idols), verily their intercession is sought after’ is well known amongst the Salaf; that this was recited by Rasulullah and then Allah abrogated it.”
Minhaj Sunnah, Volume 2 page 409


So if we say, without proof, that the Prophet(sawaws) was bewitched, then we allow for nonsensical narrations as the above to enter our Deen, then the Zionists use these fabricated narrations which you have willingly believed in, against all evidence and against all logic and against Qur'an, to attack Islam and continue to oppress Muslims.

Come to Haqq. Allahuma sullee 'ala Muhammad wa alee Muhammad.

Asalaamu alaikum.

:sl:

If we were to follow your logic brother, we would all be having this conversation in Jannah now!
Reply

YaAqsa
09-29-2011, 09:25 PM
Originally Posted by Al-Mufarridun
:sl:

If we were to follow your logic brother, we would all be having this conversation in Jannah now!
Your comment doesn't make sense to me brother, sorry, what do you mean?

If you were to read what I wrote, however, you wouldn't think the Prophet(sawaws) wanted to commit suicide.

Narrated Aisha, 'Sahih' Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 87, Number 111:
But after a few days Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was also paused for a while and the Prophet became so sad as we have heard that he intended several times to throw himself from the tops of high mountains and every time he went up the top of a mountain in order to throw himself down, Gabriel would appear before him and say, “O Muhammad! You are indeed Allah’s Apostle in truth” whereupon his heart would become quiet and he would calm down and would return home.

I'm saying that Prophet's of Allah SWT do not do this stuff, if I were to say "Aisha was suicidal" you would ban me from this forum and say that I insult the Sahabah or wives of Prophet(sawaws), but when I ask you why you say these things about the Prophet(sawawS) himself, you think I am crazy
Reply

جوري
09-30-2011, 12:23 AM
Originally Posted by YaAqsa
Your comment doesn't make sense to me brother, sorry, what do you mean?

If you were to read what I wrote, however, you wouldn't think the Prophet(sawaws) wanted to commit suicide.

Narrated Aisha, 'Sahih' Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 87, Number 111:
But after a few days Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was also paused for a while and the Prophet became so sad as we have heard that he intended several times to throw himself from the tops of high mountains and every time he went up the top of a mountain in order to throw himself down, Gabriel would appear before him and say, “O Muhammad! You are indeed Allah’s Apostle in truth” whereupon his heart would become quiet and he would calm down and would return home.

I'm saying that Prophet's of Allah SWT do not do this stuff, if I were to say "Aisha was suicidal" you would ban me from this forum and say that I insult the Sahabah or wives of Prophet(sawaws), but when I ask you why you say these things about the Prophet(sawawS) himself, you think I am crazy
I think you're a deviant shia.. which is worst than crazy!

Bassam Zawadi
This article will be divided into the two following sections: -
1) The Reliability of the Narrations that Speak About the Prophet's Suicide Attempts
2) Even if the Narrations Were True, They Don't Disprove Muhammad's Prophet hood

The Reliability of the Narrations that Speak About the Prophet's Suicide Attempts
This incident is recorded in a number of sources.
Source 1:
First one is in Ibn Sa'ad's book, Kitab Al Tabaqaat.
Problem with Narration:
It contains the infamous Al Waqidi, who has been condemned. Interestingly a Christian has done some impressive research on this individual in one of his articles and I will therefore be copying this short piece from his article...

Abd Allah Ibn Ali al Madini and his father said: "Al-Waqidi has 20,000 Hadith I never heard of." And then he said: "His narration shouldn't be used" and considered it weak.
Yahya Ibn Muaen said: "Al-Waqidi said 20,000 false hadith about the prophet."
Al-Shafi'i said, "Al-Waqidi is a liar."
Ibn Hanbal said, "Al-Waqidi is a liar."
Al-Bukhari said he didn't write a single letter by Al-Waqidi. (Siar Aalam al nublaa - althagbi - biography of Al-Waqidi)
The following Muslim author writes:
As a report of history, this narration suffers from two fatally serious defects. The first is the UNIVERSALLY RECOGNISED UNTRUSTWORTHINESS OF AL-WAQIDI. Details of his unreliability as a narrator would probably fill several pages, but all of it may be suitably condensed into a statement by Imam ash-Shafi'ee, who was his contemporary, and who knew him personally. Ash-Shafi'ee has the following to say: "In Madeenah there were seven people who used to forge chains of narration. One of them was al-Waqidi."3 (Sources: http://www.allaahuakbar.net/shiites/vicious_unscrupulous_propaganda_of_shiia-2.htm" and http://www.ansar.org/english/hasan.htm; bold emphasis ours)
Others say:
Al-Waqidi (130/747-207/822-23), who wrote over twenty works of an historical nature, but only the Kitab al-Maghazi has survived as an independent work. His reputation is marred by the fact that he relied upon story tellers; viz., those who embellished the stories of others. Al-Waqidi did such embellish, such as by adding dates and other details onto the account of Ibn Ishaq (at pages 25-29) (http://jeromekahn123.tripod.com/enlightenment/id3.html)
Even the English translator of Ibn Sa'd's work had this to say about al-Waqidi:
... The chain of the narrators is not reliable because the person who narrated to Ibn Sa'd was Waqidi WHO IS NOTORIOUS AS A NARRATOR OF FABRICATED hadithes. The next one Ya'qub is unknown and 'Abd Allah Ibn 'Abd al-Rahman is not a Companion. Consequently this narration is not trustworthy. (Ibn Sa'd's Kitab Al-Tabaqat Al-Kabir, Volume I, English translation by S. Moinul Haq, M.A., PH.D assisted by H.K. Ghazanfar M.A. [Kitab Bhavan Exporters & Importers, 1784 Kalan Mahal, Daryaganj, New Delhi, 110 002 India], p. 152, fn. 2; capital emphasis ours)
And the list goes on of those who called him a liar.
Al-Waqidi was also one of those that narrated the story of the Satanic Verses. The most amazing part of this is that the authors' friend, MENJ has a response on the same web site where this rebuttal appears from G.F. Haddad seeking to deny the historicity of the Satanic Verses where he calls into question al-Waqidi's reliability! Here is what Haddad says about al-Waqidi:
[(*) Muhammad ibn `Umar al-Waqidi (d. 207), Ahmad ibn Hanbal said of him: "He is A LIAR." Al-Bukhari and Abu Hatim al-Razi said: "DISCARDED." Ibn `Adi said: "His narrations ARE NOT RETAINED, AND THEIR BANE COMES FROM HIM." Ibn al-Madini said: "HE FORGES HADITHS." Al-Dhahabi said: "CONSENSUS HAS SETTLED OVER HIS DEBILITY." Mizan al-I`tidal (3:662-666 #7993).] (Source: http://bismikaallahuma.org/Polemics/haddad.htm; capital emphasis ours)

So as we can see, this narration is unreliable.

Second Narration:
From Al Tabari's book, Al Tarikh.
Problem with Narration
Contains two weak narrators.
First one is Ibn Fadl Al Abrash and Ibn Hajar Al Asqalani said regarding him "Trustworthy, but makes many mistakes".
Second one is Ibn Humayd Al Raazi and the majority of scholars have declared him a liar.

Anther problem with the narration is that it states that when Gabriel told the Prophet (peace be upon him) to read, the Prophet (peace be upon him) replied back "What should I read?". However, the several other sound narrations state that the Prophet (peace be upon him) replied back "I don't know how to read"

So there is a problem with the chain and content of this narration, therefore rendering it unreliable.

Third Narration:
Saheeh Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 87, Hadith Number 111
Problem with Narration:
This narration is doubtful for a number of reasons.
First, there are several other sound narrations that speak about the revelation being sent to the Prophet (peace be upon him) and none of them speak about his suicide attempts.
Secondly, notice what the narration says...
Saheeh Bukhari
Volume 009, Book 087, Hadith Number 111.


Waraqa said, "This is the same Namus (i.e., Gabriel, the Angel who keeps the secrets) whom Allah had sent to Moses. I wish I were young and could live up to the time when your people would turn you out." Allah's Apostle asked, "Will they turn me out?" Waraqa replied in the affirmative and said: "Never did a man come with something similar to what you have brought but was treated with hostility. If I should remain alive till the day when you will be turned out then I would support you strongly." But after a few days Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was also paused for a while and the Prophet (peace be upon him) became so sad as we have heard that he intended several times to throw himself from the tops of high mountains and every time he went up the top of a mountain in order to throw himself down, Gabriel would appear before him and say, "O Muhammad! You are indeed Allah's Apostle in truth" whereupon his heart would become quiet and he would calm down and would return home. And whenever the period of the coming of the inspiration used to become long, he would do as before, but when he used to reach the top of a mountain, Gabriel would appear before him and say to him what he had said before. (Ibn 'Abbas said regarding the meaning of: 'He it is that Cleaves the daybreak (from the darkness)' (6.96) that Al-Asbah. means the light of the sun during the day and the light of the moon at night).

Notice that Aisha said that she only "heard" how the Prophet (peace be upon him) intended to commit suicide. We don't know who she heard this from and therefore cannot judge whether it came from a trust worthy source or not.
Thirdly, notice how the story doesn't make much sense...
Waraqa said, "This is the same Namus (i.e., Gabriel, the Angel who keeps the secrets) whom Allah had sent to Moses. I wish I were young and could live up to the time when your people would turn you out." Allah's Apostle asked, "Will they turn me out?" Waraqa replied in the affirmative and said: "Never did a man come with something similar to what you have brought but was treated with hostility. If I should remain alive till the day when you will be turned out then I would support you strongly." But after a few days Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was also paused for a while and the Prophet (peace be upon him) became so sad as we have heard that he intended several times to throw himself from the tops of high mountains and every time he went up the top of a mountain in order to throw himself down, Gabriel would appear before him and say, "O Muhammad! You are indeed Allah's Apostle in truth" whereupon his heart would become quiet and he would calm down and would return home. And whenever the period of the coming of the inspiration used to become long, he would do as before, but when he used to reach the top of a mountain, Gabriel would appear before him and say to him what he had said before. (Ibn 'Abbas said regarding the meaning of: 'He it is that Cleaves the daybreak (from the darkness)' (6.96) that Al-Asbah. means the light of the sun during the day and the light of the moon at night).
The narration is saying that the Prophet (peace be upon him) would attempt to commit suicide several times and each time before he was about to do it Gabriel would come and reassure him of his Prophet hood. This does not make sense. For if the Prophet (peace be upon him) wanted to ensure that he was truly a Messenger of God, then only one vision from Gabriel would have been enough proof.
Fourth, in an authentic hadith the Prophet (peace be upon him) was asked when he felt depressed the most...

Saheeh Bukhari
Volume 4, Book 54, Number 454:
Narrated 'Aisha:
That she asked the Prophet (peace be upon him), 'Have you encountered a day harder than the day of the battle) of Uhud?" The Prophet (peace be upon him) replied, "Your tribes have troubled me a lot, and the worse trouble was the trouble on the day of 'Aqaba when I presented myself to Ibn 'Abd-Yalail bin 'Abd-Kulal and he did not respond to my demand. So I departed, overwhelmed with excessive sorrow, and proceeded on, and could not relax till I found myself at Qarnath-Tha-alib where I lifted my head towards the sky to see a cloud shading me unexpectedly. I looked up and saw Gabriel in it. He called me saying, 'Allah has heard your people's saying to you, and what they have replied back to you, Allah has sent the Angel of the Mountains to you so that you may order him to do whatever you wish to these people.' The Angel of the Mountains called and greeted me, and then said, "O Muhammad! Order what you wish. If you like, I will let Al-Akh-Shabain (i.e. two mountains) fall on them." The Prophet (peace be upon him) said, "No but I hope that Allah will let them beget children who will worship Allah Alone, and will worship None besides Him."

Here we see that the Prophet (peace be upon him) stated that the worst trouble or depression that he went through was during the time he went to the city of Taif and was rejected the people. Yet, nowhere do we see that he tried to commit suicide after this incident. Therefore, for the Prophet (peace be upon him) to have attempted to commit suicide in the previous incident would have to mean that he was more depressed. However, we see that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said that he was most depressed at this incident. This causes us to doubt the Bukhari narration even more.

:w:
Reply

جوري
09-30-2011, 12:23 AM
Originally Posted by YaAqsa
Your comment doesn't make sense to me brother, sorry, what do you mean?

If you were to read what I wrote, however, you wouldn't think the Prophet(sawaws) wanted to commit suicide.

Narrated Aisha, 'Sahih' Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 87, Number 111:
But after a few days Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was also paused for a while and the Prophet became so sad as we have heard that he intended several times to throw himself from the tops of high mountains and every time he went up the top of a mountain in order to throw himself down, Gabriel would appear before him and say, “O Muhammad! You are indeed Allah’s Apostle in truth” whereupon his heart would become quiet and he would calm down and would return home.

I'm saying that Prophet's of Allah SWT do not do this stuff, if I were to say "Aisha was suicidal" you would ban me from this forum and say that I insult the Sahabah or wives of Prophet(sawaws), but when I ask you why you say these things about the Prophet(sawawS) himself, you think I am crazy
I think you're a deviant shia.. which is worst than crazy!

Bassam Zawadi
This article will be divided into the two following sections: -
1) The Reliability of the Narrations that Speak About the Prophet's Suicide Attempts
2) Even if the Narrations Were True, They Don't Disprove Muhammad's Prophet hood

The Reliability of the Narrations that Speak About the Prophet's Suicide Attempts
This incident is recorded in a number of sources.
Source 1:
First one is in Ibn Sa'ad's book, Kitab Al Tabaqaat.
Problem with Narration:
It contains the infamous Al Waqidi, who has been condemned. Interestingly a Christian has done some impressive research on this individual in one of his articles and I will therefore be copying this short piece from his article...

Abd Allah Ibn Ali al Madini and his father said: "Al-Waqidi has 20,000 Hadith I never heard of." And then he said: "His narration shouldn't be used" and considered it weak.
Yahya Ibn Muaen said: "Al-Waqidi said 20,000 false hadith about the prophet."
Al-Shafi'i said, "Al-Waqidi is a liar."
Ibn Hanbal said, "Al-Waqidi is a liar."
Al-Bukhari said he didn't write a single letter by Al-Waqidi. (Siar Aalam al nublaa - althagbi - biography of Al-Waqidi)
The following Muslim author writes:
As a report of history, this narration suffers from two fatally serious defects. The first is the UNIVERSALLY RECOGNISED UNTRUSTWORTHINESS OF AL-WAQIDI. Details of his unreliability as a narrator would probably fill several pages, but all of it may be suitably condensed into a statement by Imam ash-Shafi'ee, who was his contemporary, and who knew him personally. Ash-Shafi'ee has the following to say: "In Madeenah there were seven people who used to forge chains of narration. One of them was al-Waqidi."3 (Sources: http://www.allaahuakbar.net/shiites/vicious_unscrupulous_propaganda_of_shiia-2.htm" and http://www.ansar.org/english/hasan.htm; bold emphasis ours)
Others say:
Al-Waqidi (130/747-207/822-23), who wrote over twenty works of an historical nature, but only the Kitab al-Maghazi has survived as an independent work. His reputation is marred by the fact that he relied upon story tellers; viz., those who embellished the stories of others. Al-Waqidi did such embellish, such as by adding dates and other details onto the account of Ibn Ishaq (at pages 25-29) (http://jeromekahn123.tripod.com/enlightenment/id3.html)
Even the English translator of Ibn Sa'd's work had this to say about al-Waqidi:
... The chain of the narrators is not reliable because the person who narrated to Ibn Sa'd was Waqidi WHO IS NOTORIOUS AS A NARRATOR OF FABRICATED hadithes. The next one Ya'qub is unknown and 'Abd Allah Ibn 'Abd al-Rahman is not a Companion. Consequently this narration is not trustworthy. (Ibn Sa'd's Kitab Al-Tabaqat Al-Kabir, Volume I, English translation by S. Moinul Haq, M.A., PH.D assisted by H.K. Ghazanfar M.A. [Kitab Bhavan Exporters & Importers, 1784 Kalan Mahal, Daryaganj, New Delhi, 110 002 India], p. 152, fn. 2; capital emphasis ours)
And the list goes on of those who called him a liar.
Al-Waqidi was also one of those that narrated the story of the Satanic Verses. The most amazing part of this is that the authors' friend, MENJ has a response on the same web site where this rebuttal appears from G.F. Haddad seeking to deny the historicity of the Satanic Verses where he calls into question al-Waqidi's reliability! Here is what Haddad says about al-Waqidi:
[(*) Muhammad ibn `Umar al-Waqidi (d. 207), Ahmad ibn Hanbal said of him: "He is A LIAR." Al-Bukhari and Abu Hatim al-Razi said: "DISCARDED." Ibn `Adi said: "His narrations ARE NOT RETAINED, AND THEIR BANE COMES FROM HIM." Ibn al-Madini said: "HE FORGES HADITHS." Al-Dhahabi said: "CONSENSUS HAS SETTLED OVER HIS DEBILITY." Mizan al-I`tidal (3:662-666 #7993).] (Source: http://bismikaallahuma.org/Polemics/haddad.htm; capital emphasis ours)

So as we can see, this narration is unreliable.

Second Narration:
From Al Tabari's book, Al Tarikh.
Problem with Narration
Contains two weak narrators.
First one is Ibn Fadl Al Abrash and Ibn Hajar Al Asqalani said regarding him "Trustworthy, but makes many mistakes".
Second one is Ibn Humayd Al Raazi and the majority of scholars have declared him a liar.

Anther problem with the narration is that it states that when Gabriel told the Prophet (peace be upon him) to read, the Prophet (peace be upon him) replied back "What should I read?". However, the several other sound narrations state that the Prophet (peace be upon him) replied back "I don't know how to read"

So there is a problem with the chain and content of this narration, therefore rendering it unreliable.

Third Narration:
Saheeh Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 87, Hadith Number 111
Problem with Narration:
This narration is doubtful for a number of reasons.
First, there are several other sound narrations that speak about the revelation being sent to the Prophet (peace be upon him) and none of them speak about his suicide attempts.
Secondly, notice what the narration says...
Saheeh Bukhari
Volume 009, Book 087, Hadith Number 111.


Waraqa said, "This is the same Namus (i.e., Gabriel, the Angel who keeps the secrets) whom Allah had sent to Moses. I wish I were young and could live up to the time when your people would turn you out." Allah's Apostle asked, "Will they turn me out?" Waraqa replied in the affirmative and said: "Never did a man come with something similar to what you have brought but was treated with hostility. If I should remain alive till the day when you will be turned out then I would support you strongly." But after a few days Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was also paused for a while and the Prophet (peace be upon him) became so sad as we have heard that he intended several times to throw himself from the tops of high mountains and every time he went up the top of a mountain in order to throw himself down, Gabriel would appear before him and say, "O Muhammad! You are indeed Allah's Apostle in truth" whereupon his heart would become quiet and he would calm down and would return home. And whenever the period of the coming of the inspiration used to become long, he would do as before, but when he used to reach the top of a mountain, Gabriel would appear before him and say to him what he had said before. (Ibn 'Abbas said regarding the meaning of: 'He it is that Cleaves the daybreak (from the darkness)' (6.96) that Al-Asbah. means the light of the sun during the day and the light of the moon at night).

Notice that Aisha said that she only "heard" how the Prophet (peace be upon him) intended to commit suicide. We don't know who she heard this from and therefore cannot judge whether it came from a trust worthy source or not.
Thirdly, notice how the story doesn't make much sense...
Waraqa said, "This is the same Namus (i.e., Gabriel, the Angel who keeps the secrets) whom Allah had sent to Moses. I wish I were young and could live up to the time when your people would turn you out." Allah's Apostle asked, "Will they turn me out?" Waraqa replied in the affirmative and said: "Never did a man come with something similar to what you have brought but was treated with hostility. If I should remain alive till the day when you will be turned out then I would support you strongly." But after a few days Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was also paused for a while and the Prophet (peace be upon him) became so sad as we have heard that he intended several times to throw himself from the tops of high mountains and every time he went up the top of a mountain in order to throw himself down, Gabriel would appear before him and say, "O Muhammad! You are indeed Allah's Apostle in truth" whereupon his heart would become quiet and he would calm down and would return home. And whenever the period of the coming of the inspiration used to become long, he would do as before, but when he used to reach the top of a mountain, Gabriel would appear before him and say to him what he had said before. (Ibn 'Abbas said regarding the meaning of: 'He it is that Cleaves the daybreak (from the darkness)' (6.96) that Al-Asbah. means the light of the sun during the day and the light of the moon at night).
The narration is saying that the Prophet (peace be upon him) would attempt to commit suicide several times and each time before he was about to do it Gabriel would come and reassure him of his Prophet hood. This does not make sense. For if the Prophet (peace be upon him) wanted to ensure that he was truly a Messenger of God, then only one vision from Gabriel would have been enough proof.
Fourth, in an authentic hadith the Prophet (peace be upon him) was asked when he felt depressed the most...

Saheeh Bukhari
Volume 4, Book 54, Number 454:
Narrated 'Aisha:
That she asked the Prophet (peace be upon him), 'Have you encountered a day harder than the day of the battle) of Uhud?" The Prophet (peace be upon him) replied, "Your tribes have troubled me a lot, and the worse trouble was the trouble on the day of 'Aqaba when I presented myself to Ibn 'Abd-Yalail bin 'Abd-Kulal and he did not respond to my demand. So I departed, overwhelmed with excessive sorrow, and proceeded on, and could not relax till I found myself at Qarnath-Tha-alib where I lifted my head towards the sky to see a cloud shading me unexpectedly. I looked up and saw Gabriel in it. He called me saying, 'Allah has heard your people's saying to you, and what they have replied back to you, Allah has sent the Angel of the Mountains to you so that you may order him to do whatever you wish to these people.' The Angel of the Mountains called and greeted me, and then said, "O Muhammad! Order what you wish. If you like, I will let Al-Akh-Shabain (i.e. two mountains) fall on them." The Prophet (peace be upon him) said, "No but I hope that Allah will let them beget children who will worship Allah Alone, and will worship None besides Him."

Here we see that the Prophet (peace be upon him) stated that the worst trouble or depression that he went through was during the time he went to the city of Taif and was rejected the people. Yet, nowhere do we see that he tried to commit suicide after this incident. Therefore, for the Prophet (peace be upon him) to have attempted to commit suicide in the previous incident would have to mean that he was more depressed. However, we see that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said that he was most depressed at this incident. This causes us to doubt the Bukhari narration even more.

:w:
Reply

YaAqsa
09-30-2011, 01:28 AM
Blueshell, it seems you agree with me that the Prophet(sawaws) didnt' attempt to commit suicide and that Bukhari's hadith is fabricated.

So you agree with a Shi'a that Bukhari contains fabrications, and yet Bukhari himself claims his collection of Hadith to be "Sahih".

Qur'an 23:88 Say: In Whose hand is the dominion over all things and He protecteth, while against Him there is no protection, if ye have knowledge?

Qur'an 23:89 They will say: Unto Allah (all that belongeth). Say: How then are ye bewitched?

Qur'an 23:90 Nay, but We have brought them the Truth, and lo! they are liars.

Qur'an 17:47 We know best what (intention) it is that they listen with as they listen to you, and as they have private conferences, as the unjust (of them) say, "Decidedly you are following (none) except a man bewitched."

Qur'an 53:3-4 "Nor does he speak from [his own] inclination. It is not but a revelation revealed,"

Bukhari Volume 4, Book 53, Number 400: Narrated 'Aisha: Once the Prophet was bewitched so that he began to imagine that he had done a thing which in fact he had not done.



Look forwards to your response with regards to the above, jazakallah for agreeing with me and coming towards Haqq, inshallah by the end of our discussion you will realize the concept of Masoom.
Reply

جوري
09-30-2011, 02:13 AM
No I don't agree with deviants. Read thoroughly the above response without cherry picking. Having an unabridged compendium denotes that one should include every last detail for examination by scholars and scholars have indeed commented on the tawatur of said Hadith. You need to teach yourself the basics on the science of Hadith and Isnad.

If I were writing a science book I'd include all my research findings and then have it peer reviewed by several scholars in the field for integrity and logical constancy and compare with several sources on the same subject matter. The integrity of all my sources should also be questioned but not omitted. Try to apply that concept here since that's what the 'science of Hadith' is and that's what makes our sources, scholars and richness of text incredibly well preserved and unparalleled!

I find it a waste of time to engage in vain discourse with kaffirs and even worst a deviant. At least I understand their intent with fabrication but what is yours? What a pitiable attempt and pitiable life you're not enjoying the life of a kaffir nor are you considered a Muslim!

Best,
Reply

YaAqsa
09-30-2011, 12:42 PM
Originally Posted by ßlµêßêll
No I don't agree with deviants. Read thoroughly the above response without cherry picking. Having an unabridged compendium denotes that one should include every last detail for examination by scholars and scholars have indeed commented on the tawatur of said Hadith. You need to teach yourself the basics on the science of Hadith and Isnad.

If I were writing a science book I'd include all my research findings and then have it peer reviewed by several scholars in the field for integrity and logical constancy and compare with several sources on the same subject matter. The integrity of all my sources should also be questioned but not omitted. Try to apply that concept here since that's what the 'science of Hadith' is and that's what makes our sources, scholars and richness of text incredibly well preserved and unparalleled!

I find it a waste of time to engage in vain discourse with kaffirs and even worst a deviant. At least I understand their intent with fabrication but what is yours? What a pitiable attempt and pitiable life you're not enjoying the life of a kaffir nor are you considered a Muslim!

Best,
Jazakallah for your kindness, Allahu akbar.

I say that the hadith is fabricated, you agree it is weak/unreliable/ludicrous in nature: "So there is a problem with the chain and content of this narration, therefore rendering it unreliable."

And instead of agreeing with me, you'd rather attack and insult me, just because I love Khadijah (AS) more than Aisha... because I love Fatima Zahra (AS) and 'Ali (AS) more than Abu Bakr, Omar, and Uthsman... Because I love Hassan (AS) more than Muawiya... Because I love Hussein (AS) more than Yazeed...

Even though Muhammad (SAWAWS) said: "Verily, I am leaving behind two precious things (thaqalayn) among you: the Book of God and my kindred (`itrah), my household (Ahl al*Bayt), for indeed, the two will never separate until they come back to me by the Pond (of al*Kawthar on the Judgement's Day)."

Why don't you study the Tawatur of that?

Then tell me, you have the Qur'an, yes, but where is the Ahlul-Bayt (AS) in your deen? Show me where you take any matters of Fiqh from them, show me where they taught you Salat, show me where they acted as your Mawla and answered questions posed by the Ummah, show me their status in your deen.

"the two will never separate until they come back to me by the Pond (of al*Kawthar on the Judgement's Day)"

Why have you separated them from Qur'an and then called their followers deviants and kaffirs? If "Labayk ya Rasoolillah" makes me a deviant, then Allahu akbar.

So far, I have proven that the Prophet(sawaws) was never bewitched and you have agreed that Bukhari contains fabricated/weak/nonsensical hadith. Anyone reading this can see for themselves and read the hadith posted in order to realize the truth.
Reply

جوري
09-30-2011, 01:08 PM
Originally Posted by YaAqsa
Jazakallah for your kindness, Allahu akbar.

I say that the hadith is fabricated, you agree it is weak/unreliable/ludicrous in nature: "So there is a problem with the chain and content of this narration, therefore rendering it unreliable."

And instead of agreeing with me, you'd rather attack and insult me, just because I love Khadijah (AS) more than Aisha... because I love Fatima Zahra (AS) and 'Ali (AS) more than Abu Bakr, Omar, and Uthsman... Because I love Hassan (AS) more than Muawiya... Because I love Hussein (AS) more than Yazeed...

Even though Muhammad (SAWAWS) said: "Verily, I am leaving behind two precious things (thaqalayn) among you: the Book of God and my kindred (`itrah), my household (Ahl al*Bayt), for indeed, the two will never separate until they come back to me by the Pond (of al*Kawthar on the Judgement's Day)."

Why don't you study the Tawatur of that?

Then tell me, you have the Qur'an, yes, but where is the Ahlul-Bayt (AS) in your deen? Show me where you take any matters of Fiqh from them, show me where they taught you Salat, show me where they acted as your Mawla and answered questions posed by the Ummah, show me their status in your deen.

"the two will never separate until they come back to me by the Pond (of al*Kawthar on the Judgement's Day)"

Why have you separated them from Qur'an and then called their followers deviants and kaffirs? If "Labayk ya Rasoolillah" makes me a deviant, then Allahu akbar.

So far, I have proven that the Prophet(sawaws) was never bewitched and you have agreed that Bukhari contains fabricated/weak/nonsensical hadith. Anyone reading this can see for themselves and read the hadith posted in order to realize the truth.
Given the death of Anwar, I am really not in the mood for you. Go like what you like & hate what you hate. You don't need to make sense of it to me, you're a grown man (we hope) make your own decisions and yes your ignorance and foolishness renders you a deviant. Neither Allah swt nor Mohammed (PBUH) said love Fatima more than Aisha, I understand many of you go so far to say she's in hell (a3ooth billah) nor do I care if you like Ali more than Abu Bakr etc. etc.. what silliness and foolishness.. None of your picking & choosing was commanded by Allah nor his prophet..
Reply

Abz2000
09-30-2011, 01:30 PM
Which anwar sis?
Our honest and outspoken brother?
Reply

Abz2000
09-30-2011, 01:42 PM
Just checked (don't watch the news) inshaAllah, Allah will keep his message of hope and motivation alive in the hearts of true believers everywhere,
And we shall be a cause for his continued elevation,
May Allah grant his family steadfastness and safety from trials, and join him with the Prophets,
Ameen
Reply

Scimitar
09-30-2011, 07:18 PM
Anwar al Awlaki...

I was wondering what happened to him, not seen any new video lectures of his recently... I've got a lot of "what if" questions regarding his disappearance... Maybe he's not even dead? What if he's in some torture chamber getting questioned and stuff?

I mean, how the heck can BBC claim he was responsible for inciting the 911 attacks. The news LIE to us. This age is fitna and fasaad... I'm miffed.

Also:
Originally Posted by YaAqsa
Blueshell, it seems you agree with me that the Prophet(sawaws) didnt' attempt to commit suicide and that Bukhari's hadith is fabricated.
So you agree with a Shi'a that Bukhari contains fabrications, and yet Bukhari himself claims his collection of Hadith to be "Sahih".
Where do you guys get your haddeeth from? The net? or do you own the books? Coz I don't trust the hadeeth ont he net at all... Just a heads up. There are 5 separate sites i've come accross which claim to have authentic hadeeth, but in actual fact they are not authentic and some of the more questionable ones aren't even da'eef - they don't even exist in any text, forget sahih, not even in da'eef... You gotta be careful with your references, get them checked out. Hardly no one exercises this point of protocol though...

Quoting hadeeth is not a thing to be taken lightly...



...I'm sure you'll all agree.
Reply

جوري
09-30-2011, 07:26 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
Where do you guys get your haddeeth from?
The good old fashioned way 'books' lol

:w:
Reply

Al Qabayli
09-30-2011, 08:17 PM
Originally Posted by Ramadhan
All power is from Allah SWT.

The moment we think the other creature has the power over us (such as can bring death to us as they will), is the moment we venture into shirk.
as-salâmu `alaykum,

As Allâh said : Inna kayda sh-shaytâni kâna da`îfâ
And also in Hell, Iblîs will say : illâ an da`awtukum fastajabtum lî. falâ talûmûnî wa lûmû anfusakum.
Reply

alluminati
10-01-2011, 05:06 AM
interesting, thank you for clarifying the mason history, although I am sure at their earliest age they were more Christian, and slowly over time it changed. But if nebuchadnezzar destroyed the temple and then rebuilt it, it is highly possible he may have rebuilt it with this so called "sacred symbolism". It is pure idolatry. Allah (praise be to Him!) will tell us the history of man on the final day, so until then, it is always wise to maintain the open mind.
Reply

YaAqsa
10-01-2011, 04:51 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
Anwar al Awlaki...

I was wondering what happened to him, not seen any new video lectures of his recently... I've got a lot of "what if" questions regarding his disappearance... Maybe he's not even dead? What if he's in some torture chamber getting questioned and stuff?

I mean, how the heck can BBC claim he was responsible for inciting the 911 attacks. The news LIE to us. This age is fitna and fasaad... I'm miffed.

Also:

Where do you guys get your haddeeth from? The net? or do you own the books? Coz I don't trust the hadeeth ont he net at all... Just a heads up. There are 5 separate sites i've come accross which claim to have authentic hadeeth, but in actual fact they are not authentic and some of the more questionable ones aren't even da'eef - they don't even exist in any text, forget sahih, not even in da'eef... You gotta be careful with your references, get them checked out. Hardly no one exercises this point of protocol though...

Quoting hadeeth is not a thing to be taken lightly...

...I'm sure you'll all agree.
Jazakallah dear brother for the humble reminder.

The hadith are from Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, you can go look them up for yourself.

The Qur'an and Hadith I quoted are just examples of why the Prophet(sawaws) was never bewitched and of why we cannot trust that a hadith is authentic even if a scholar thinks it is authentic, especially when it goes against the qur'an by saying something such as Prophet(sawawS) was bewitched or suicidal.

If I'm a deviant for loving Muhammad(sawaws) and refusing to believe he was bewitched and suicidal, then I'd rather be a deviant and face Allah SWT with good thoughts than be a deviant and face Allah SWT with negative thoughts about Rasoolallah(sawaws). Sharpen your knives because I'd rather be beheaded like Imam Husayn (AS) for what I believe in even if everyone else disagrees, just as was the case with him and his small group of companions by whose sacrifice Allah SWT chose to save Islam.

Jazakallah
Reply

جوري
10-01-2011, 04:59 PM
Originally Posted by YaAqsa
The Qur'an and Hadith I quoted are just examples of why the Prophet(sawaws) was never bewitched and of why we cannot trust that a hadith is authentic even if a scholar thinks it is authentic, especially when it goes against the qur'an by saying something such as Prophet(sawawS) was bewitched or suicidal.
you seem to be under some faulty impression that Bukhari stated the Hadith is authentic? Bukhari & Muslim and others are but a compilation. You should do minimum research at least before speaking against someone who was blind, left his life behind to go in pursuit of COLLECTING as many information and ahadith about the prophet's life as possible from as many different sources as possible!

secondly there are two types of ahadiths again basic minimal third grade knowledge of the matter would enable you to understand the science of Isnad, uhad and twatur. Scholars have already rendered the hadith weak, especially with different narrations around the same character existing so why do you persist in this folly? Why do you persist that 'Bukhari' rendered it true or false, do you read at all? Do you understand the difference between compiling a work and scholastic validation of work?

sob7an Allah.. with so many ignorant people out there it is a wonder we're in the state we're in!
Reply

Skillganon
10-02-2011, 12:59 AM
Originally Posted by YM Usrah Umar
this all came from me watchin a film and the devil in the film basically which ever women he met...he'd fornicate with her, whatever guy he didnt like he'd get them instantly killed....what does islam say about, can he really do that?

or is the best thing iblis can do is whispering bad stuff to us?
Devil and fornication?

At this moment it is more worrying to me that you are watching these kind of film than the question itself.
Reply

YaAqsa
10-02-2011, 06:46 AM
Originally Posted by ßlµêßêll

you seem to be under some faulty impression that Bukhari stated the Hadith is authentic? Bukhari & Muslim and others are but a compilation. You should do minimum research at least before speaking against someone who was blind, left his life behind to go in pursuit of COLLECTING as many information and ahadith about the prophet's life as possible from as many different sources as possible!

secondly there are two types of ahadiths again basic minimal third grade knowledge of the matter would enable you to understand the science of Isnad, uhad and twatur. Scholars have already rendered the hadith weak, especially with different narrations around the same character existing so why do you persist in this folly? Why do you persist that 'Bukhari' rendered it true or false, do you read at all? Do you understand the difference between compiling a work and scholastic validation of work?

sob7an Allah.. with so many ignorant people out there it is a wonder we're in the state we're in!
Sorry, I had assumed you had knowledge of Hadith by the way you spoke to me.

Bukhari's collection is called "Sahih al-Bukhari"

The reason it is called "Sahih al-Bukhari" is because every hadith in his collection was graded Sahih by himself.

Muhammad ibn Ismaa’eel al-Bukhari said, “We were with Ishaq ibn Rahoyah who said, ‘If only you would compile a book of only authentic narrations of the Prophet.’ This suggestion remained in my heart so I began compiling the Sahih.”

You can read more at Islamic-Awareness.org

"Imam al-Bukhari's collection of ahadith was maintained to be authentic on account of his authority, and it has been maintained as authentic ever since. The missionaries' assertion, that Imam al-Bukhari regarded almost 99% of his own collection as spurious, is among the most rash and foolhardy statements ever dared by Christian missionaries. On the contrary, the 7,397 refers to the number of hadiths that Imam al-Bukhari chose to include in his Al-Jami` and left out many authentic narrations from his vast collection for the fear of excessive length."

Ibn al-Salah said: "The first to author a Sahih was Bukhari, Abu ‘Abdillah Muhammad ibn Ismaa’eel al-Ju’fee, followed by Aboo al-Husain Muslim ibn al-Hajjaj al-Naisaabooree al-Qushairee, who was his student, sharing many of the same teachers. These two books are the most authentic books after the Quran. As for the statement of al-Shafi’i, who said “I do not know of a book containing knowledge more correct than Malik’s book,” – others mentioned it with a different wording – he said this before the books of Bukhari and Muslim. The book of Bukhari is the more authentic of the two and more useful." - Umdah al Qari fi Sharh Sahih al Bukhari' written by Badr al-Din al-Ayni and published in Beirut by Dar Ihya’ al-turath al-`Arabi

Ibn Khuzaymah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: I have never seen anyone beneath the canopy of heaven who has more knowledge of the hadeeth of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and who has memorized more (hadeeth) than al-Bukhaari.

Al-Tirmidhi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: I have never seen in Iraq or in Khorasan anyone with more knowledge of hadeeth criticism, history and isnaads than al-Bukhaari.

Imam al-Nawawi, Hafz ibn Hajar al-`Asqalani Hafiz Jalal al-Din al-Suyuti, Imam ibn al-Salah in his muqaddima, Imam Imam al-Sakhawi, and all these great `giants` of the field of Hadith have stated that after the Book of Allah, the most authentic book is the Sahih of Imam al-Bukhari.

Insha'Allah you understand now that the source of misunderstanding/disagreement between us has been your lack of knowing that Sahih al-Bukhari is in fact known to be Sahih not only by himself but by a great many Sunni scholars. Sahih is Arabic for "sound/authentic/accurate".
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جوري
10-02-2011, 04:32 PM
Originally Posted by YaAqsa
"Imam al-Bukhari's collection
Originally Posted by ßlµêßêll
Bukhari & Muslim and others are but a compilation

Originally Posted by YaAqsa
Sorry, I had assumed you had knowledge of Hadith by the way you spoke to me.
Not just of ahadiths but of synonyms, antonyms, homonyms generally of the English language!

the adage of arguing with a fool rings ever more true..

best,
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YaAqsa
10-02-2011, 08:45 PM
No need for you to be so hostile towards me, I've only quoted hadith from Bukhari and explained they're either fabricated or something else is very wrong.

In any case, the Prophet(sawaws) was never bewitched. Bukhari says he was suicidal, we agreed that this hadith was weak/fabricated, similarly Bukhari says that 'Aisha said the Prophet(sawaws) was once bewitched, we know that this contradicts Qur'an so the hadith is either fabricated or Aisha was wrong.

No need to take an intellectual discourse so personally insha'Allah.
Reply

جوري
10-02-2011, 09:17 PM
Originally Posted by YaAqsa
No need for you to be so hostile towards me, I've only quoted hadith from Bukhari and explained they're either fabricated or something else is very wrong.

In any case, the Prophet(sawaws) was never bewitched. Bukhari says he was suicidal, we agreed that this hadith was weak/fabricated, similarly Bukhari says that 'Aisha said the Prophet(sawaws) was once bewitched, we know that this contradicts Qur'an so the hadith is either fabricated or Aisha was wrong.

No need to take an intellectual discourse so personally insha'Allah.
It is a weak narration(see previous detailed replies)-- I dislike repeating myself! and don't care enough for you to be hostile or expend any other sort of emotion.

best,
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YaAqsa
10-02-2011, 09:53 PM
You seem to be missing the point, we have already clearly established that we agree Bukhari has weak narrations. My contention is that there are many Sunni scholars who graded the entire works of Bukhari as Sahih, including Bukhari himself, which is why the collection is called "Sahih al-Bukhari". Once again, "Sahih" is Arabic for "authentic/sound/accurate", it represents hadith which are reported to be true without question.

Now, given that notion, when one finds contradicting hadith, or hadith which contradict the Qur'an, in a book claiming to be Sahih, then one must scrutinize sincerely every other hadith inside the book claiming to be sahih. Logical deduction: if I give you a basket full of eggs and I say "I'm 100% certain every egg is not rotten" and the first egg you crack open is rotten then you must criticize my comment and would be worried about all of the other eggs in the basket also being rotten. The same logic applies to the collection formally known as "Sahih al-Bukhari" (The Authentic of Bukhari).

Thus, when one reads anything in Bukhari, even if one claims scholarship and authenticity based on opinion of chain, the possibility for someone with a black heart to have narrated something unjustly is strong indeed. Seeing as a lot of the Sunni beliefs are circled around Bukhari, it is integral to be critical in order not to attribute falsely to Allah(SWT), Muhammad(sawaws), wa Ahlul-Bayti-Muhammad (as).

I hope inshallah that you can re-read everything I've written in this thread so far, you'll see that I'm not the ignorant fool on the topic I've been speaking of as you've asserted.
Reply

Abz2000
10-02-2011, 10:12 PM
i am not an expert on hadith so somebody please do correct me if i am wrong as i am human,
but from my own reading of sahih muslim and sahih bukhari (i have summarized english and arabic side by side)
i noticed that they went with the sources and chains of narrations and recorded them even if they differed from each other, thereby not ommiting one in favour of another as only Allah knows best and they may omit the right one.
as long as the chains were strong - they recorded them for posterity,
i read more on the prophecies of the last days, and i do sometimes find that some ahadith are narrated through different chains and can be slightly different from each other due to the narrator.
but would i prefer that they left out genuine ahadith just because they needed to cross one out?
no,
i would rather they went by strong chains and recorded both and left it to the people of the time to understand and make sense of both.
there are many ahadith which are not in the sahih of Bukhari or Muslim- but seem to make sense in this day and age.
  1. His [the Mahdi's] aim is to establish a moral system from which all superstitious faiths have been eliminated. In the same way that students enter Islam, so unbelievers will come to believe.
    (Vizier Mustafa, Emergence of Islam, p. 171)
When the Mahdi appears, God will cause such power of vision and hearing to be manifested in believers
that the Mahdi will call to the whole world from where he is,
with no postman involved,
and they will hear and even see him.

Muntakab al Adhhar, p. 483

(this is john connor and if you are listening to this broadcast - you are the resistance :statisfie)


this doesn't necessarily make them liars - but i believe we should be grateful that they recorded what they found to be from strong chains.
and i am grateful that others also recorded what they sincerely believed to be true.

but ask yourself - being someone who has been taught to reject them off hand - do you not find hadith in bukhari and Muslim which you know to be true?

i don't think Imam bukhari or Imam Muslim would ever have said that every single one of their narrations were guaranteed to be true.
rather - they went with the best they could find.

and further - i would like to apologize to Allah and to others for any mistake i may have made by quoting a weak hadith which i sincerely believed to be true due to the number of renowned scholars who have mentioned it.
they are human - and history texts can never be guaranteed to be completely accurate.
the Quran is however different - as we know it to be memorized by numerous companions who were brought together to authenticate.



11. By no means (should it be so)! For it is indeed a Message of instruction:
12. Therefore let whoso will, keep it in remembrance.
13. (It is) in Books held (greatly) in honour,
14. Exalted (in dignity), kept pure and holy,
15. (Written) by the hands of scribes- 16. Honourable and Pious and Just.
Quran 80

so please don't allow them to decieve you regarding it.
we are in this together - and should strive to find what is right without taking sides based on sectarian lines.
then we will prosper.

peace

Reply

جوري
10-02-2011, 10:32 PM
Originally Posted by YaAqsa
You seem to be missing the point, we have already clearly established that we agree Bukhari has weak narrations. My contention is that there are many Sunni scholars who graded the entire works of Bukhari as Sahih, including Bukhari himself, which is why the collection is called "Sahih al-Bukhari". Once again, "Sahih" is Arabic for "authentic/sound/accurate", it represents hadith which are reported to be true without question.
I am not missing the point, in fact you are!
per your own last statement (and I say last as you seem to spin a tale as you go along, first Bukhari wrote it then Bukhari collected it) Bukhari is a compilation! an 'authentic' compilation in that he didn't invent per your previous or write out of whim rather gathered as many different narrations from different sources surrounding the same events as possible. That is what makes it authentic! now whether the narrations themselves are weak 'uhad', strong 'twatur' is a different issue, where the science of hadith falls in and where the scholars do their research.

So it does in fact make you an ignorant fool who is so hung up on saving face and lost in semantics!

If you have no desire to subscribe to hadiths or desire your own rendition you're free to do so, no one is holding a gun to your head. But your assertions are meaningless to us otherwise, as we've amply made plain & comprehensible the difference between an authentic compendium and scholarly critique of what lies therein!

best,
Reply

Kitsune92
10-02-2011, 10:39 PM
Originally Posted by YM Usrah Umar
this all came from me watchin a film and the devil in the film basically which ever women he met...he'd fornicate with her, whatever guy he didnt like he'd get them instantly killed....what does islam say about, can he really do that?

or is the best thing iblis can do is whispering bad stuff to us?
This is why I try not to watch scary movies too much... They always get you thinking about really disturbing things... :hmm:
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alluminati
10-02-2011, 10:55 PM
So back with some new opinions: basically freemasonry = satanic (of course), and had its origins with the mystery religions (satanic). New world order will bring about the destruction of the church, of Christianity, Islam and Judiasm and replace it with the mystery one world religion (its happening now, the the mystery religion is freemasonry, the new "church" is the lodge). The masons were pretty much since their roots corrupt, of course over time evil grows and is nurtured by the hate and deception and misdeeds of man and shaitan. Clearly what is said in bible in terms of the revelations is being met, and wickedness is essentially everywhere and shall end in hellfire.
Reply

YaAqsa
10-03-2011, 12:39 AM
Originally Posted by ßlµêßêll

I am not missing the point, in fact you are!
per your own last statement (and I say last as you seem to spin a tale as you go along, first Bukhari wrote it then Bukhari collected it) Bukhari is a compilation! an 'authentic' compilation in that he didn't invent per your previous or write out of whim rather gathered as many different narrations from different sources surrounding the same events as possible. That is what makes it authentic! now whether the narrations themselves are weak 'uhad', strong 'twatur' is a different issue, where the science of hadith falls in and where the scholars do their research.

So it does in fact make you an ignorant fool who is so hung up on saving face and lost in semantics!

If you have no desire to subscribe to hadiths or desire your own rendition you're free to do so, no one is holding a gun to your head. But your assertions are meaningless to us otherwise, as we've amply made plain & comprehensible the difference between an authentic compendium and scholarly critique of what lies therein!

best,
Well it seems you're the only scholar who holds this opinion of the definition of Sahih and the science of hadith you profess, which is not shared by Muhaddith (a scholar of hadith).

And it is increasingly ironic that you sign your posts with ",best" but the content is always the worse, in terms of akhlaq. Please why must you be hostile towards me?

Jazakallah brother abz for your kind response, I agree with some of what you said and inshallah will reflect on it more.
Reply

جوري
10-03-2011, 01:46 AM
Originally Posted by YaAqsa
Well it seems you're the only scholar who holds this opinion of the definition of Sahih and the science of hadith you profess, which is not shared by Muhaddith (a scholar of hadith).

And it is increasingly ironic that you sign your posts with ",best" but the content is always the worse, in terms of akhlaq. Please why must you be hostile towards me?

Jazakallah brother abz for your kind response, I agree with some of what you said and inshallah will reflect on it more.
well then by all means pose your query to a Muslim scholar along with said Hadith & bring us the reply back, I'll be very open to that. I think it would take care of your problem & spare me the utter waste of your linear logic..
I have said before several things & continue to repeat them & will repeat them for the last time, you're no more than an SN to me with deviant intent. I am no more emotionally invested in you than I am in sweet apple pie.

best,
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