Originally Posted by Gothique
Islamic law is not implemented in a mob way sister where people run around stoning each other based upon rumours, no person has the right to implement the punishments apart from the authorative government, and that's only after a judge has decided upon the case, based upon the evidence. God has given us a law, with this law a state can be run, it might be more understandable in the following way, why do we put humans in prison for crimes? why don't we just let them do their crimes and wonder around untill God punishes them.
This is not correct is it because a criminal has to face the consequences of breaking the law, if he steals he goes to prison if found guilty, what you're saying is, "Why should we punish him, we should let God punish him in this life or the after life" mean while this criminal thief walks around stealing? What about when someone commits murder and other humans punish him by putting him in prison, should we just let murderers walk around and say we'll wait until God punishes him in this life or the here after while in the mean time he's murdering people this just doesn't work.
When he murdered he took away someone's right to life, he took away someone's right to be a mother, he took a way someone's right to be a father, he took away someone's right to be a sister/brother, you see the crime of murder not only impacts upon the victim but the entire family that's why we don't accept it and view it as a serious crime that must be punished so that justice can be established,Islam is all about justice.
Similarly adultery is also a very serious crime, it also takes away the rights of many people and leaves them in despair/sadness for possibly their entire life, however cos of the promiscuous societies that we live in, we've come to belittle it and think of it as something minor but rather it is a great crime, it violates the rights of the wife and children, look at how many broken families there are, children growing up without fathers cos the husband ran off with another woman, women never trusting another man because their last husband cheated on them so they spend the rest of their life alone raising his kids while he's out living life to the full with some other floozy, no this isn't correct, justice must be established for the violation of rights that occurred.
Adultery also effects the kids negatively because they grow up in a dysfunctional home and subsequently experience other problems as a result, then they pass on the same life style to their kids, for example a lot of men who beat women, as they were being raised they saw their father doing it to their mother so they inherited the problem due to their father abusing the rights of his wife.
So kids who grew up in a broken family cos the father cheated also grow up experiencing problems and depression, I know a kid who slipped into severe depression after his father cheated on his mother, he became suicidal because the life he knew just fell apart, he never came home to mum and dad any more, he came home everyday to a house full of sadness and depression, he had to go for counselling cos he couldn't handle how the family had just fallen apart and his old life was completely gone. So the point is, adultery has ramifications that affect everyone, not just the two people involved. But for some reason we over look the rights of other people as insignificant.
You're argument may be that those crimes I mentioned above such as murder and theft are way more serious than adultery and warrant a punishment in order to protect people, however since when did we decide what is a serious crime and what isn't? It is God who decides what is a serious crime that warrants a punishment, and he says that adultery is a very bad crime that carries a punishment if found guilty.
Now George Bush, Tony Blair and other men in suits may disagree with this, but are you really gonna accept men in suits who legalize porn and other vices to be your law maker? These men in suits made the law that Adultery carries no punishment, does that mean their law is correct? We have this mentality that everything in Islam has to conform with the secular laws that men in suits made otherwise it's wrong, but since when did men in suits become infallible with regards to making laws, rather we should be questioning why these men in suits think they know better than God and why they legislate laws that go against his, and when did they get the right to legislate for humanity?
Our perception of good and bad changes from time to place, for example gay marriages are the new thing, people think there's nothing wrong with gay marriages these days however 50 years ago people were disgusted at the idea, which demonstrates that people's perception of good and bad changes with the time and society they live in, 50 years ago they would have been shocked and appalled at the idea of gay marriages, if you asked them, "do you ever see gay marriages being accepted in society" bet most of them would have said "no" but today they are because people view how bad something is according to the time they live in and the law that applies to it.
In our times, adultery is made out to not be such a big crime because no punishment is given to it in secular law, theft and murder are classed as much bigger crimes in western societies because of the punishments they carry, if we were raised in a society where adultery was classed as a crime on the same level as murder then it would seem normal to us. However because we live in a society that belittles adultery as something so insignificant that it doesn't even carry a sentence then we also view it as something trivial but the reality is that it's not trivial, under Islam and in the sight of the creator Adultery is on the same level as other big crimes, adultery is fraud, deception, lying, cheating, violation of rights, but the men in suits who make laws, think that's ok and should go unpunished, and instead of questioning their judgement, we question our creator. (not referring to you personally)
I wake up everyday thinking how can a society legalize porn (prostitution), strip clubs, abortions, and other evil vices, that degrade women and promote them as nothing more than mere sexual objects and then turn around and say Islam degrades women because it says they should cover up so that they are viewed and valued as people with intelligence rather than sex objects who are judged according to how big their chest is.
I find it hideous, then it occurs to me that, the men who make these secular laws, are men who are lead by their desires and not the goal of achieving the best quality of life for humanity. I often wonder when women in the west will wake up and realize what they call freedom is really slavery to the perverted desires of men.
What I don't understand even more is, why don't women speak out and protest against such laws that promote the woman as nothing more than a sex object. I don't ever recall seeing a women in the west mention how evil prostitution and strip clubs are, I mean they bang on about Islam all day but they have problems on their front door, women are being used and abused every day. Don't the women in the west find it disturbing that the men who rule their country think it's ok for prostitution to take place in the form of pornography, don't the women want to protest against women being viewed as nothing more than sex objects when a tv add comes on showing a half naked woman on top of a car. Don't they want to protest when they have to conform to a dress code that entails a short skirt or trousers that expose her rear in order to be accepted? I've gone off topic but this is something on my mind lately that I can't understand.
Shouldn't one who committed a crime be given time to repent and beg for forgiveness, I mean surely they regret everything they've done, no? Everyone is vulnerable in the end. If you gave them prison time, they'd be able to purify themselves again. But just straight up torture??
And even if they do have to kill the person right away, they don't even SHOOT the victims, or hang them, or something that kills them fast, they gotta use stones! The stones make them suffer alot! It still makes me sick -.-
Sister, in reality the chances of 4 people witnessing you do the act are virtually nil, unless you're making a public show, think about how hard it would be to achieve a conviction where 4 people saw the act taking place, they actually have to see the male organ inside the female, if they walk in and the two people are just lying in the bed next to each other then that doesn't count I was told, and from the previous hadiths that sister Insannah posted, we saw that Umar and Abu Bakr told the man to conceal his sin so if you conceal it and ask for forgiveness then you won't be taken to court before a judge and tried for it, will you? It may border on your concious for the rest of your life but if you keep it between you and Allah then how will you ever be tried in a court of law? Unless you go round publicizing it.