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GuestFellow
10-13-2011, 07:03 PM
:sl:

How do you respond when you disagree with another member on forums? Do you swear, get angry, mock them or ignore them? Or do you challenge their views without resorting to personal attacks? I'm curious. I have noticed that some people online and in real life hate being challenged, even on minor issues.

Me, I try to ignore all the personal attacks. I absolutely hate rhetoric/persuasive speech in debates. Members that express their emotions rather than discussing the core issues of the debate get on my nerves. Sometimes I'm guilty of getting emotional but I rarely direct it at other members during debates. I'll give you an example.

Person A: I don't think 9/11 was an inside job. I just think some people were upset with the US government and decided to attack America to get revenge.

Person B: RARRR! You sheep! I bet you are a CIA agent in disguise, waiting to arrest me and take me to those secret prisons. Go sheep, go away, don't come back! You fool, 9/11 was an inside job, if you don't believe me, your a sheep!

Another example:

Person C: I think the government allowed terrorists to carry out attacks on the world trade centre to start wars.

Person D: You are racist, anti-semitic and holocaust denying nutter! How dare you turn you back on America! These terrorists were trying to take away our freedom and you are a conspiracy nut eating wacko! *waves the flag dramatically*

Thought of this topic whilst I was taking my mock driving test. :p:
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Endymion
10-13-2011, 07:28 PM
Assalam Alekum Respected Brother.

This is indeed a very good topic.It will give us a break to think and to look at the way we talk with our Muslim brothers and sisters and with Non Muslims.

Talking about me,a few days before i was a person who went rude on people while arguing with them and i start talking in a sarcastic tone.But its only on internet because arguing with people here is a bit easy than face to face.In real,i avoid arguing with people and usually stay quiet or talk in a plain,light tone.

These days,fortunately,im reading one of the most amazing books,"Maariful Quran" and i stumbled upon this ayah.

43. "Go, both of you, to Pharaoh, for he has indeed transgressed all bounds;

44. "But speak to him mildly; perchance he may take warning or fear ((Allah))."
Surah 20. Ta Ha (Ta-ha)

In the explanation of these verses,the respected author wrote that when Allah SWT gave Moses AS His signs and sent him to Feron,He SWT ask him to talk with him polietly.This gave us the lesson that we should talk with each other polietly and kindly both with our Muslim and Non Muslim friends no matter how bad they are,how wrong doers they are,they cant be more bad and evil than Feron and no one who is calling people towards good can be more noble than Moses AS.So,we should be careful about our behaviors and speak with every one kindly and gently no matter if we disagree with them.

This made me felt ashamed of my self that i even went rude on my dear brothers and sisters in Islam and make sarcastic comments on them.And realizing all that,i apologise with some and promise myself i'll always try to be careful using harsh words.May Allah SWT make me fulfill my promise and make the path of Islam easy for me to follow and bless me and all of us good behaviors and manners.Amen.
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Eric H
10-13-2011, 09:05 PM
Greetings and peace be with you Tragic Typos;

When there is disagreement, I walk away and try not to respond for twenty four hours. This gives me time to calm down, and to search for a positive response. We are all created by the same God, and I feel we should care for all God’s creation, despite all our differences.

In the spirit of praying for a greater interfaith understanding and friendship

Eric
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Ghazalah
10-13-2011, 09:33 PM
During your mock theory test? :giggling:

At the end of the day, people are entitled to their own opinion, so sometimes you need to distinguish between an opinion or something which is fact but they can't see it.
I tend to challenge people's opinions just to see their line of thinking. I do sometimes get emotional :embarrass
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sabr*
10-13-2011, 09:50 PM
As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

Muslims are human and can be subject to the identical brainwashing as any other culture or
way of life. The conspiracy theory mentality is rampant and flourishes in underdeveloped countries,
absence of literacy, and countries where people are suppress by despots and monarchies who
feed on these fears to keep the people in-check.

Facts are replaced with emotions, cultural and tribal biases.

A classic example: The entire world will acknowledge a death. It takes many in the Muslim
world a month or more before they can except someone is dead.
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GuestFellow
10-13-2011, 10:22 PM
Originally Posted by Endymion

Assalam Alekum Respected Brother.

This is indeed a very good topic.It will give us a break to think and to look at the way we talk with our Muslim brothers and sisters and with Non Muslims.
Walikaum salaam,

That is why I created this topic. I noticed some Muslim members tend to get confrontational.

Talking about me,a few days before i was a person who went rude on people while arguing with them and i start talking in a sarcastic tone.But its only on internet because arguing with people here is a bit easy than face to face.In real,i avoid arguing with people and usually stay quiet or talk in a plain,light tone.
That's because we are anonymous.

This made me felt ashamed of my self that i even went rude on my dear brothers and sisters in Islam and make sarcastic comments on them.And realizing all that,i apologise with some and promise myself i'll always try to be careful using harsh word.
Don't worry about it. No need to apologise.

Originally Posted by Ghazalah
During your mock theory test? :giggling:
No, at the mock driving test... :skeleton:
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ardianto
10-14-2011, 01:44 AM
:sl:
Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
That's because we are anonymous.
Nobody here ever saw me in the real world, even nobody here knows my address. But in this forum I am still 'somebody with my own character, because I am always present here as the same person. Same like other members, they are always present here as the same persons. This allows us to recognize them.

And same like in the real world, if we always respect to other people here, other people will always respect to us too. If we often rude and annoy other people, nobody will talks with us again.

So, even if we are anonymous, we should always respect to other people.
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Salahudeen
10-14-2011, 12:08 PM
In real life, my aunties and uncles don't talk to each other because they all ways disagree on stuff, and I've noticed in my mum's family they can't take it if someone disagrees with them, to the point they begin to hate that person if he disagrees with them, and they stop talking to the person who disagreed with them, sadly even when I disagree with my family they hit the roof like it's a big crime to have your own mind and you all ways have to agree with what they say because "they know best" since they're older.

I've noticed many parents also try to enforce their own views upon their children, and if their child grows up having his own views and opinions that differ to theirs they say "you're a bad child" :hmm: I don't know why people can't handle it when you disagree with them it's something that's astonished me for a long time.

I told my family that people are allowed to have their own mind and just because your older doesn't mean you're all ways correct, it's really frustrating when they dismiss your opinion and views under the guise of "you're young you don't have experience I know better" people like to be listened to, and have their opinions/views understood and valued, if someone doesn't agree then it's their job to try and bring you round to their way of thinking by showing you why their view is correct, not just say "you're young so you have to accept everything I say as right because I'm older and I know better" :hmm: this is actually what people in my family say to me.
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.iman.
10-14-2011, 02:58 PM
Interesting question. I guess I've never been in a "fight" with anyone on a forum before. If I disagree, I would explain exactly why I disagree, and use sources/facts to back me up. With that being said, I also try to keep an open mind because perhaps they are right, and you are wrong. But when it comes to opinion, there is no right/wrong, so sometimes you just have to agree to disagree. Also, some people sign up to forums with the intention to negate what anyone says and to disrupt and start arguments. You eventually figure out which user's posts you like, and which you don't like and you learn to just not open threads by those that may anger you.

In regards to the name calling/insults... that definitely is not necessary, especially amongst muslims... we are all brothers and sisters, and should treat each other with respect. I've seen people go as far as to call someone else a "kufar" since they didn't agree on a particular subject! I'd have to say this forum is much better about being respectful that than other forums.
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joyous fairy
10-15-2011, 06:08 PM
Assalam alaykum,

when I disagree with someone I tend to either ignore them or tell them why I disagree depending on the topic.

If its a topic about opinions I generally say 'I agree with so and so...' or 'I disagree because...'. I wouldnt say 'You are wrong because...'.

If its an Islamic topic then I try to avoid saying what I think is right or wrong because I dont have the knowledge or authority to give an opinion. Also I would rather give the viewpoints of scholars.

If its a political topic I try to avoid it altogether but if I do give my opinion, I try to do it with an open mind and take everyone elses views on board so that I have an understanding of the different kind of opinions that are around.

I think the fact that this is a forum with lots of different people from different parts of the world makes it easier and much more open for us to express opinions. In real life it can sometimes be difficult for us to share our views, however, I have noticed that sometimes people online do end up insulting and being harsh when in real life they wouldnt. So I think sometimes we have to approach certain topics with caution and be aware of sensitive issues. Also be aware that we are all human and have feelings and just because its online and we might not know each other personally, we are still brothers and sisters.
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R.M. Renfield
11-13-2011, 11:12 AM
Originally Posted by Tragic Typos

How do you respond when you disagree with another member on forums?
A lot would depend on the nature of the diagreement.

do you challenge their views without resorting to personal attacks?
That's exactly what I try to do. Apart from any moralistic preference, I find it saves time. Ad hominem attacks are usually fallacious to the argument and very often there is no real argument at all, other than personal attacks to make them feel better. Responding to them in kind only clogs threads and wastes time.

Me, I try to ignore all the personal attacks. I absolutely hate rhetoric/persuasive speech in debates. Members that express their emotions rather than discussing the core issues of the debate get on my nerves.
Then I would say you have the right idea. It would probably be a pleasure debating with you in that case.

Person A: I don't think 9/11 was an inside job. I just think some people were upset with the US government and decided to attack America to get revenge.

Person B: RARRR! You sheep! I bet you are a CIA agent in disguise, waiting to arrest me and take me to those secret prisons. Go sheep, go away, don't come back! You fool, 9/11 was an inside job, if you don't believe me, your a sheep!

Another example:
I once did get into such a debate with someone in another forum on this very subject. It quickly descended from debate down the lavatory and into the sewers of personal attack with little meaning, other than the attacker's apparent state of mind. There's absolutely no profit to be gained by responding to this.

The best way to deflect it, is to stick to the facts - or at least to your premise, in earnest. Unless someone can actually demonstrate you're in the wrong, they are just wasting their own time and yours. Just by quoting the insult and placing a fact beneath it by way of reply can have the effect of generating yet more meaningless insults... which tells you you're never going to convince the person. In which case, it's usually a good indication that the real conversation is over and that it's time to leave.... "Next!"

There is a really good saying, which goes something like:

"Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you on experience".

The trouble is, of course, I don't like to automatically brand people as 'idiots' until I can be sure they have nothing at useful to say to me. The trick is in spotting them before you end up tattling with them over some irrelevant junk. It's because of this that the saying is sometimes hard to adhere to until it's too late. But life goes on...
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Flame of Hope
11-13-2011, 06:45 PM
Originally Posted by ardianto
Nobody here ever saw me in the real world, even nobody here knows my address. But in this forum I am still 'somebody with my own character, because I am always present here as the same person. Same like other members, they are always present here as the same persons. This allows us to recognize them.

And same like in the real world, if we always respect to other people here, other people will always respect to us too. If we often rude and annoy other people, nobody will talks with us again.

So, even if we are anonymous, we should always respect to other people.
:sl:

First of all..... great topic, Tragic Typos!

We have had some really thought-provoking responses over here. But this one, made by our brother ardianto is worth noting most, in my opinion.

Yes, the internet affords us the ability to be anonymous. And because of that, quite a number of people seem to think they can get away with saying anything they like. Their behavior on the forums is different from their behavior in real life.

People even reveal things about themselves and others that they could never dare reveal to anyone in real life. They reveal their good deeds..... and their bad deeds.

For example:
1. I weep a lot when I think about Allah. I do this and I do that.
2. I committed this horrible XYZ act. And one of my family members did this.... and did that.

And they dare to say all this because they think nobody knows who they are.

Excuse me..... sure.... nobody knows who they are. But ALLAH certainly knows them!! The angels are recording every single thing they say..... even if they are "in disguise" on the internet!

If you go by the username of Simple Simon online..... you would have the reputation of Simple Simon to protect. Everything you say affects the reputation of Simple Simon.

One must guard one's online reputation even if it's anonymous. Because anonymous or not.... that person is YOU.

If in real life Simple Simon's name is Salim....... then it will be Salim who will be held accountable on the Day of Judgment for everything that Simple Simon did and said!
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Flame of Hope
11-13-2011, 07:13 PM
Originally Posted by Endymion
Talking about me,a few days before i was a person who went rude on people while arguing with them and i start talking in a sarcastic tone.But its only on internet because arguing with people here is a bit easy than face to face.In real,i avoid arguing with people and usually stay quiet or talk in a plain,light tone.
:sl: my dear sister Endymion.

You have worded it well. You are right. Arguing with people in forums is easier.....

........ and these arguments get hotter and hotter...... because people get so bent on PROVING that their point of view is right.

It becomes a quarrel..... where one person is trying to prove another wrong. And so.... it becomes a battle where people's honor is trampled upon. And respect for others goes down the drain.

It might be helpful to remember one thing during these arguments:

Pride is concerned with WHO is right. Humility, with WHAT is right.

So a person who backs out of an argument and leaves off disputing is doing WHAT is right. And this is how Muslims should be. Leave off arguing.... and not try to prove to everyone that THEY are the ones who are right.

This teaching is clear in this hadith:

The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “He who gave up disputing while he is right, a palace of high rank in Paradise will be built for him. He who gave up disputing while he is a fabricator, a palace in the center of Paradise will be built for him.” (al-Tirmidhi who declared it as hasan).
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sister herb
11-13-2011, 07:28 PM
Salam alaykum

I personally try to respond by peace and using my sense. It also depence "who" you are in forums. I am admin, super moderator and moderator in some islamic forums and one of those members whose have written rules of place. So naturally I have follow rules.

:hiding:
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Endymion
11-13-2011, 07:50 PM
:wa: Dearest Riham :statisfie

My case is a bit different actually.The real life and Internet is different to me because the crowd here and there is a bit different.Majority of people here are open minded,they listen to others and try to understand their point of view.If they disagree with you,they give you logical reasons and wont reject your point of view just because you are small or just because they think whatever they say or do is right and they dont need to give you a logic behind their statements.
But in real life,if i disagree with anyone,i have to make sure what kind of person they are.Some people just dont want to listen to others.Some think they are elder than you,so they are always right and if you dare arguing with them or disagree with them no matter you are right and they are wrong,they will consider you a blunt person and will never forgive you for this.Some people argue in a very loud voice and this is truly unbearable for me so i just ignore them and never say a word even if they are completely wrong.
People here on Internet cannot shout on you,cannot talk about you much with others as they dont know you much.No matter they are younger or elder,you can talk with them easily telling them they are wrong and you can prove that.
In this sense,i act a little different here and there :statisfie Hope this helps people understand my point in a better way :statisfie

Originally Posted by Riham
The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “He who gave up disputing while he is right, a palace of high rank in Paradise will be built for him. He who gave up disputing while he is a fabricator, a palace in the center of Paradise will be built for him.” (al-Tirmidhi who declared it as hasan).
Talking about the hadith,yup this is one of the most precious teachings and actually this hadith made me keep my mouth shut even im right.I read another hadith in which Muhammad SAW stated that when someone argue with you and you keep quiet,angels reply from your side.
So i try let the angels reply on behalf of me but because im not that pious :p I jump in the discussion if i feel like i cant keep it in my stomach anymore.May Allah SWT guide me and help me follow sirate Mustaqeem no matter how difficult things are to swallow.Amen.
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