interpretating the quran

[Crystal]

Narrated Jundub: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: If anyone interprets the Book of Allah in the light of his opinion even if he is right, he has erred. Sunan Abudawud book 25 ,number 3644

Narrated Abdullah: The Prophet said, "Recite (and study) the Qur'an as long as you agree about its interpretation, but if you have any difference of opinion (as regards to its interpretation and meaning) then you should stop reciting it (for the time being)." Sahih Bukhari book 61,number 580
Hi all - I have been reading hadiths and I came across those hadiths above. Surely interpretation of verses in the quran causes conflict of opinions among Muslims. I understand that some verses do not need to be interpreted as Muhammad explained their meanings but my question is this : are there sources of all of explanations of every verse in the quran by Muhammad. If there are some that are not explained in the hadith then how do Muslims deal with them verses?

Isn't interpretation of verses a problem in countries that impose sharia law? Who decides on the meaning if it is not explained?

If anyone could answer them questions thanks or if anyone has further explanations of them hadiths thanks.

[Salahudeen]

12 characters :hmm:

Allah says: It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah. But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding. (3:7).

So for matters of jurisprudence and shariah, scholars rely on the specific verses in the Quran that are no subject to interpretation and to the explanations of Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wasallam in his Sunnah, and to the actions and approvals of the companions of the prophet, their consensus and on the rule of precedence (Qiyas).

When there are differences of opinion between the scholars, the schools of thought, then the ruler of the Muslims will choose the most accurate opinion of them all that will make the lives of the Muslims easier in his community. Provided he does not try to follow the mistakes of some scholars.

We always hear the question: which Islam are you talking about, there are many.

The answer is really simple: it is the correct understanding of Islam and that is:

Our sources for our religion are:
1. The Word of Allah, Quran
2. The Sunnah, The explanation and implementation of Quran in our lives as taught by the Messenger of Allah, Muhammad, may Allah bestow His peace and blessings on him.

- But, everyone says we follow the Quran and Sunnah, yet they are different in understanding Quran and Sunnah, so where do we go from there?

Well, we understand the Quran and the Sunnah as the companions of the prophet pbuh understood them, and as the first 3 generations of Islam understood them. Those early Muslims are the closest of us all to the time of revelation of Quran and to the prophet pbuh and his teachings.

- But even the early Muslims did not have the same understanding on everything.

Right, so we submit to what they have all agreed upon. So here, the agreement, consensus of the early Muslims is binding to every Muslims. They could not have all agreed on the same understanding of a certain issue wrongly, do you agree, makes sense? Of course.

- And the things they differed on?

When they have differed on a certain issue, then every Muslim has the right to look into their different understandings and choose what he feels in his heart to be the true one, not what he desires to be the one. Islam has big room for difference of opinions, the Muslim Ummah is united on the basics that the early Muslims (Salaf) has agreed upon.

The Muslim Ummah is a collection of colorful garments, stitched together by Tawhid, the Oneness of Allah.

So, whoever is with us on this method of understanding, is a Muslim, and whoever is not with us on this understanding, is not a Muslim, he has a different religion altogether.

The early Muslims agreed upon the basics of our creed (Aqeedah), belief system. The six articles of faith, belief in Allah, His angels, His revelations, His messengers, His judgment day, and His divine pre-decree and ordainment. They agreed on the necessity to keep the 5 pillars of Islam to maintain their Islam. First of which is the Shahadah, the testimony of faith, I bear witness that there is no true God but Allah and I bear witness that Muhammad is His slave and messenger. The other 4 are prayers 5 prescribed times of the day and night, obligatory charity once a year, fasting the blessed month of Ramadan, and pilgrimage to Makkah once in a lifetime whenever able.

The first pillar, the testimony, entails that one does not worship any god with Allah. The action worship takes many forms. Praying to Allah alone, acknowledging the law and following the law of Allah alone, asking Allah alone, relying on Allah alone, hope in Allah alone, loving Allah alone, fearing Allah alone, sacrificing to Allah alone, doing pilgrimage to His 3 prescribed houses only (Makkah, Madinah and Baitul Maqdis, Jerusalem).

Those are the basic principles of Islam, be on them, and then we are brothers and sisters in the religion. Go astray from them, then you have your religion and we have ours.

[Salahudeen]

12 characters

The Quran is interpreted (in order) :

1. By the Quran, for some verses explain other verses.

2. By the Sunnah/Hadeeth.

3. By the statements of the Sahaba radiyallahu anhum, since they were the students of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, witnesses the nuzul .. etc.
There is also the Tab'ieen, but this one includes some details and conditions which I do not remember now.

4. The Arabic language also plays a role in interpretation.

I believe this matter is discussed in books related to uloom al Quran (science of the Quran).

[Iconodule]

Someone else had claimed elsewhere that someone could pick up the Quran on a desert isle and understand it by himself.

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[Abz2000]

[Ramadhan]

Someone else had claimed elsewhere that someone could pick up the Quran on a desert isle and understand it by himself.

Go to www.quran.com

read it and come here if there's something you don't understand,
and compared that to bibles of your choice and see if you understand all the contradictions and errors contained in them without your pope or bible studies trying to shove down your throat their "interpretations" of those errors and contradictions and corruptions.

[Abz2000]

iconodule - there is no priesthood in Islam, the scholars are also men like us, it's just that they may have more knowledge than us on specific issues,
we are just seeking the opinions of people more learned in a subject than us, but we have to make the decision ourselves - unless we can establish Islamic rule, then we follow the decision the leader makes after consultation - or if we see the leader is blatantly erring - we change him for a better one.
without the presence of Islamic rule - it is down to the individual, since nobody will take responsibility for your mistakes on the day of judgement.
again, we ask the opinions of those more learned on a subject.
surely you do ask the doctor or lawyer or nutritionist or physiologist when unsure?
but will they take the responsibility for outcomes? no, so you listen to the best advice and come to a decision.
in the absence of a doctor - you bandage your leg yourself - or use tweezers to remove a bullet, or use antiseptic on a deep cut.

surely you know how to read a map, even though there are specialists in the field,
as long as the map is coherent, your ok to use your intelligence.
but when the map has the same location pasted in different directions because someone's tampered with it - you have to ask yourself whether something's wrong.

[Crystal]

Thanks Salahudeen for the answers. Sometimes I see Muslims debating over the meaning of a particular verse and so by this ayat they shouldn't do this?

And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah.

This ayat is very telling considering a lot of people are interpreting things for their own benefit.
An example if I may take would be that verse in relation to women and covering their hair in surah Al Nur which I seem to notice a lot of Muslims debating it's meaning. Now as far as I know it doesn't explicitly say hair or head (and like you said arabic plays a role) but if going by the method you have given the next step they should take is looking to the sunnah. As far as I know I came across a hadith in which Muhammad said to a young girl who was wearing little clothing that when a girl reaches maturity she should cover her body except two places and he pointed to her face and feet I think. I can't locate the hadith right now but you probably know it. So why do Muslims still debate over some meanings of the quran if the answer is in the sunnah?

Also that book uloom al Quran is it available online?

Abz thanks for the video as well.

[Iconodule]

abz2000- Thanks for clarifying.

Just to clear up one misconception I sometimes see here: in the Orthodox Christian Church our bishops and priests are not considered infallible. Like with your scholars, we recognize that they are generally better-studied and wiser in many matters than the laity, but it's the duty of all the faithful to preserve and protect the faith. And many times in the history of the Church priests and bishops have appeared who taught false doctrines and it was the lay believers who were the first to speak against them.

[جوري]

Oh how do you figure? Have you got your axons in a knot?

Orthodox Christian Church our bishops and priests are not considered infallible. Like with your scholars,

[Iconodule]

Oh how do you figure? Have you got your axons in a knot?

What exactly are you asking about?

[Ramadhan]

abz2000- Thanks for clarifying.

Just to clear up one misconception I sometimes see here: in the Orthodox Christian Church our bishops and priests are not considered infallible. Like with your scholars, we recognize that they are generally better-studied and wiser in many matters than the laity, but it's the duty of all the faithful to preserve and protect the faith. And many times in the history of the Church priests and bishops have appeared who taught false doctrines and it was the lay believers who were the first to speak against them.

You are talking as if bible is preserved, although it is clearly not.

[جوري]

What exactly are you asking about?

Which part was difficult for you to understand?

show me an orthodox christian who doesn't think the pope is 'God appointed' and can do no wrong!

[Iconodule]

Which part was difficult for you to understand?

show me an orthodox christian who doesn't think the pope is 'God appointed' and can do no wrong!

I am an Orthodox Christian and I don't believe the Pope is God appointed and I do believe he can do much wrong. In fact, all Orthodox Christians agree with me since... we're not under the Pope!

[جوري]

I am an Orthodox Christian and I don't believe the Pope is God appointed and I do believe he can do much wrong. In fact, all Orthodox Christians agree with me since... we're not under the Pope!

Then you're a heretic in accordance with the 'True' Christians..
Those 'Copts' you adore would consider you so..

btw let me give you a little lesson as I see it westerners are as under-educated as they get.

Copt= Egyptian doesn't equal christian.. they were copts during the time of Moses, and they were copts during the time they worshiped amon ra..
The same way the only purely Semitic population in the world today is in Yemen, you know those folks your govt. is out with a drone every other day to raid!

Good luck sorting through all that confusion.. It is no wonder you worship a self-immolating man-god who couldn't save himself in spite of a night prayer to self!

best,

[Iconodule]

Then you're a heretic in accordance with the 'True' Christians..
Those 'Copts' you adore would consider you so..

The Coptic Pope is completely different from the Pope of Rome (the Eastern Orthodox patriarch of Alexandria is also called "Pope"). The Coptic Pope is not considered infallible.

If you want to understand some of the differences between Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism, here is a good article: http://www.oodegr.com/english/papismos/diafores2.htm

Copt= Egyptian doesn't equal christian.

I'm well aware of this distinction but the term "Copt" is frequently used as shorthand for members of the Coptic Church, by the Coptic Christians themselves and also other Egyptians. You yourself have done this.

[Ramadhan]

I am an Orthodox Christian and I don't believe the Pope is God appointed and I do believe he can do much wrong. In fact, all Orthodox Christians agree with me since... we're not under the Pope!

You may not be under the pope, but you are under your bishops, and your scriptures must be interpreted by the ecumenical councils.

[Iconodule]

You may not be under the pope, but you are under your bishops, and your scriptures must be interpreted by the ecumenical councils.

Of course we're under our bishops, thank God, but they are not infallible. Ecumenical councils convene rarely to address very specific problems; the interpretation of scripture is done by the Church as a whole, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Certainly the councils made some very crucial points but our faith is not limited to the decrees of councils. When we read the scriptures we consult the writings of great Fathers like St. John Chrysostom and also discuss with priests and knowledgeable lay teachers. We are also instructed by the Church's doctrinally and scripturally rich hymnography- whole theological textbooks could be written just using hymns.

[جوري]

The Coptic Pope is completely different from the Pope of Rome (the Eastern Orthodox patriarch of Alexandria is also called "Pope"). The Coptic Pope is not considered infallible.

If you want to understand some of the differences between Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism, here is a good article:

http://www.oodegr.com/english/papismos/diafores2.htm

That's a given & hence I stated you're a heretic to many.

I'm well aware of this distinction but the term "Copt" is frequently used as shorthand for members of the Coptic Church, by the Coptic Christians themselves and also other Egyptians. You yourself have done this.

No you're not well aware but google is your god when at a loss I am sure.. I have put 'copt' in quotes more often than not to highlight that fact!


best

[Iconodule]

That's a given & hence I stated you're a heretic to many.

Everyone is a "heretic" to someone. It doesn't necessarily prove anything.

[جوري]

Everyone is a "heretic" to someone. It doesn't necessarily prove anything.

Indeed but it renders your previous assertion moot!

best,

[Ramadhan]

Of course we're under our bishops, thank God, but they are not infallible. Ecumenical councils convene rarely to address very specific problems; the interpretation of scripture is done by the Church as a whole, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Certainly the councils made some very crucial points but our faith is not limited to the decrees of councils. When we read the scriptures we consult the writings of great Fathers like St. John Chrysostom and also discuss with priests and knowledgeable lay teachers. We are also instructed by the Church's doctrinally and scripturally rich hymnography- whole theological textbooks could be written just using hymns.

I did not say you believe bishops are infallible.
Bishops are your god's representatives.
And the ecumenical councils prove the point that christians keep changing their scriptures. The pure words of God through Jesus (pbuh) the messenger was never good enough for christians.

[Iconodule]

I did not say you believe bishops are infallible.
Bishops are your god's representatives.

Certainly they are God's representatives but they don't always represent him well.

And the ecumenical councils prove the point that christians keep changing their scriptures..

No more than all your tafsirs, fiqh, hadith collections, madhhabs, prove that you keep changing the Quran.

[Iconodule]

Indeed but it renders your previous assertion moot!

best,

Then it renders everyone's assertions moot.

[جوري]

Then it renders everyone's assertions moot.

Not really, especially when in your own religion you're divided into dissenting cliques and huge factions with lack of organization, an adulterated book & no commonality of core beliefs.

best,

[Iconodule]

Not really, especially when in your own religion you're divided into dissenting cliques

You mean like Sunnis and Shi'a?

[جوري]

You mean like Sunnis and Shi'a?

Not at all.. Sunnis (traditional) makeup 85-90% of all Muslims, Shia by definition mean faction are about 10%, hardly equal with the mess Christianity is in!

006.159

[LEFT]Sahih International: Indeed, those who have divided their religion and become sects – you, [O Muhammad], are not [associated] with them in anything. Their affair is only

to Allah; then He will inform them about what they used to do.

still even they, the 10% faction use the exact same unadulterated Quran if they'd only read it & discern verses such as the above, and though they may otherwise have unusual political ideology and misinterpreted religious beliefs, they worship the one God and read the same book!

best,

[Iconodule]

Sunnis don't break into cliques?

[جوري]

Sunnis don't break into cliques?

Nope.. suffis fall under shia, shia means faction, again pls. try to exercise those noodles..

best

[Iconodule]

Nope.. suffis fall under shia, shia means faction, again pls. try to exercise those noodles..

Interesting, because most of them consider themselves Sunni. So of those 85-90% of Muslims whom you said are "Sunnis", how many are REAL Sunnis, in your opinion? If every Sufi is really "Shi'a", that should boost the percentage of "Shi'a" in the world considerably, no?

[جوري]

Interesting, because most of them consider themselves Sunni. So of those 85-90% of Muslims whom you said are "Sunnis", how many are REAL Sunnis, in your opinion? If every Sufi is really "Shi'a", that should boost the percentage of "Shi'a" in the world considerably, no?

It doesn't matter what they consider themselves, anyone who breaks away from tradition is a shia.. are you going to teach me Arabic & Islam? It wouldn't change their percentage any, still all the factions in Islam those that are western made like Ahmadis to those who consider themselves sufi, or ithni 3ashris all fall under shia still 10% & so will remain!

best,

[جوري]

Most Muslims belong to one of two denominations; with 80-90% being Sunni and 10-20% being Shia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam

[Iconodule]

Most Muslims belong to one of two denominations; with 80-90% being Sunni and 10-20% being Shia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam

But that can't be right, since by your assertion all Sufis are not actually Sunni, and a large percentage of self-styled Sunnis are Sufis and therefore shi'a according to you. Why, Pakistan alone is 50% Shi'a by this measure!

[جوري]

But that can't be right, since by your assertion all Sufis are not actually Sunni, and a large percentage of self-styled Sunnis are Sufis and therefore shi'a according to you. Why, Pakistan alone is 50% Shi'a by this measure!

I don't put stock in your brand of statistics or semantics for that matter. If you don't want to accept the facts as they're, then it is something you'll have to work on your own private time!


best,

[Iconodule]

I don't put stock in your brand of statistics or semantics for that matter. If you don't want to accept the facts as they're, then it is something you'll have to work on your own private time!

I'm just trying to understand. So let me see if I can summarize your argument:

1. Islam is not really divided into sects because the shi'a only constitute about 10%-20% and everyone else is Sunni.

2. "Sunnis" who practice Sufism are not actual Sunnis and therefore get relegated to the 10%-20% who are shi'a.

3. No matter how many sufis claiming to be Sunnis there are, they are all really shi'a and the shi'a percentage remains at 10%-20% because wikipedia says so, even though Wikipedia is using a different definition of "Sunni" and "Shi'a" from yours.

[جوري]

I'm just trying to understand. So let me see if I can summarize your argument:

1. Islam is not really divided into sects because the shi'a only constitute about 10%-20% and everyone else is Sunni.

2. "Sunnis" who practice Sufism are not actual Sunnis and therefore get relegated to the 10%-20% who are shi'a.

3. No matter how many sufis claiming to be Sunnis there are, they are all really shi'a and the shi'a percentage remains at 10%-20% because wikipedia says so, even though Wikipedia is using a different definition of "Sunni" and "Shi'a" from yours.

The prophet didn't bring Sects & the Quran is unchanged, the Quran speaks repeatedly against sectarianism I am not going to delve on ahadith on the matter.. If people desire something outside of that, it is their prerogative (sunni/traditional) Muslims, don't consider them Muslims. They're outside the folds of Islam. What you consider them & what they consider themselves is inconsequential. The prophet didn't bring 'Suffism' nor 'Ithani 3ashri' nor ahmadi Islam. He brought us the Quran and Sunnah.. If you desire outside of that, then it is only your privilege!

BTW I don't care for wiki either I figured it caters to your western ready made fast meal sensibilities!

best,

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

Greetings of peace

No more than all your tafsirs, fiqh, hadith collections, madhhabs, prove that you keep changing the Quran

Are you aware what these are? They are not 'changes' but rather part of the one faith itself, they are not additions nor alterations, they are all included in one, part of the faith, ways to understand the faith etc.

Tafsir - Interpetation

Fiqh - Law (Islamic jurisprudence)

Hadeeth Collections - All sayings of the prophets (peace and blessings be unto him), we don't change them, if you have come across a hadeeth it has a chain of narrators which will take you back to the actual person who said so and so, however, if the chains of narrations is weak the narration is therefore considered weak.

Madhabs - Schools of law (religious jurisprudence) if you study them you will realise that it has nothing to do with change. They are teachings based upon 4 schools, they consists of rulings based upon Qur'aan and the sunnah of the prophet (peace be unto him).

Heres a thread, hopefully it will shed some light in regards to what the four imam's have to say

-->> http://www.islamicboard.com/methodol...d-madhabs.html <<--

It show's a lot of how much one does know, especially when one speak's without knowledge. Let's turn our thinking caps on and consider doing some research atleast before posting.

I'm just trying to understand.

Regarding sunni and shi'aa's..

When one follow's something other than the actual teachings of the Qur'aan and sunnah they are considered someone as 'not following the Qur'aan or sunnah'..

1. Islam is not really divided into sects because the shi'a only constitute about 10%-20% and everyone else is Sunni.

You are incorrect. Islam is not divided, the muslim's are the ones causing the division as stated by the prophet Muhammad (peace be unto him). There is only one Islam, no matter how one follows it or what one names oneself. Either they are following the Qur'aan and sunnah or either they are not 'completely' following Qur'aan and sunnah.

3. No matter how many sufis claiming to be Sunnis there are, they are all really shi'a and the shi'a percentage remains at 10%-20% because wikipedia says so, even though Wikipedia is using a different definition of "Sunni" and "Shi'a" from yours.

Wilkipedia hasn't always been a reliable source to look up everything, has it? It requires one to also do their own studying from the authentic sources also.

[Iconodule]

The prophet didn't bring Sects & the Quran is unchanged, the Quran speaks repeatedly against sectarianism I am not going to delve on ahadith on the matter.. If people desire something outside of that, it is their prerogative (sunni/traditional) Muslims, don't consider them Muslims.

Likewise, they don't consider you to be the TRUE Muslims. So I guess, to borrow a phrase, that renders your previous assertion moot.

A separate, but related question: Do you think the Sunnis were right to bomb the Sufi shrine?

[Iconodule]

Greetings of peace



Are you aware what these are? They are not 'changes' but rather part of the one faith itself, they are not additions nor alterations, they are all included in one, part of the faith, ways to understand the faith etc.

And the same is true of our councils, creeds, writings of the Fathers, etc. They are all part of the one faith which has not changed since the Church was founded by our Lord Jesus Christ.

When one follow's something other than the actual teachings of the Qur'aan and sunnah they are considered someone as 'not following the Qur'aan or sunnah'..

Likewise when someone does not really follow the Holy Scriptures and their correct interpretation in Holy Tradition, he is considered to be heterodox.

You are incorrect. Islam is not divided, the muslim's are the ones causing the division as stated by the prophet Muhammad (peace be unto him). There is only one Islam, no matter how one follows it or what one names oneself. Either they are following the Qur'aan and sunnah or either they are not 'completely' following Qur'aan and sunnah.

Likewise there is only one Orthodox Christian Faith.

Wilkipedia hasn't always been a reliable source to look up everything, has it? It requires one to also do their own studying from the authentic sources also.

Of course. We should never simply rely on Wikipedia to prove something.

[Iconodule]

*double post*

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

A separate, but related question: Do you think the Sunnis were right to bomb the Sufi shrine?

No it was not right, the teachings of Islam do not encourage this. In all Islam does not associate itself with such acts, as posted by sister Bluebell ..It mentions in the verse how those who cause division do not associate themselves with Allaah and his messenger (SAW).

Indeed, those who have divided their religion and become sects – you, [O Muhammad], are not [associated] with them in anything. Their affair is only to Allah; then He will inform them about what they used to do.

My Question to you, What has it got to do with Islam, with us or anything at all? Or this thread in this case?

[Iconodule]

My answer to this.

No it was not right, the teachings of Islam do not encourage this. In all Islam does not associate itself with such acts

When I mentioned it as an example of strife between Sunnis, BlueBell said the Sufis are not real Sunnis (she didn't say anything about the bombers). What do you think? Who is a real Sunni in this case? The bombers, the Sufis, both, neither?

My Question to you, What has it got to do with Islam, with us or anything at all? Or this thread in this case?

Bluebell initially brought up the question of sects among Christians; I was simply pointing out that Muslims have a similar problem (they divide into sects too). Would you agree?

[جوري]

Likewise, they don't consider you to be the TRUE Muslims. So I guess, to borrow a phrase, that renders your previous assertion moot.

A separate, but related question: Do you think the Sunnis were right to bomb the Sufi shrine?

like I state it is the privilege of a diminutive percentage to think as they please!

best,

[Iconodule]

like I state it is the privilege of a diminutive percentage to think as they please!

best,

And how does it please you to think (about the bombing, that is)?

[جوري]

And how does it please you to think (about the bombing, that is)?

how does the Rwandan Genocide please you? you desire to go off on all sorts of tangents then open a separate thread and have your catharsis there..

best

[جوري]

My Question to you, What has it got to do with Islam, with us or anything at all? Or this thread in this case?

I quoted the Quran to showcase that sectarianism and sects aren't part of Islam..

:w:

[Salahudeen]

Thanks Salahudeen for the answers. Sometimes I see Muslims debating over the meaning of a particular verse and so by this ayat they shouldn't do this? This ayat is very telling considering a lot of people are interpreting things for their own benefit.
An example if I may take would be that verse in relation to women and covering their hair in surah Al Nur which I seem to notice a lot of Muslims debating it's meaning. Now as far as I know it doesn't explicitly say hair or head (and like you said arabic plays a role) but if going by the method you have given the next step they should take is looking to the sunnah. As far as I know I came across a hadith in which Muhammad said to a young girl who was wearing little clothing that when a girl reaches maturity she should cover her body except two places and he pointed to her face and feet I think. I can't locate the hadith right now but you probably know it. So why do Muslims still debate over some meanings of the quran if the answer is in the sunnah?

Also that book uloom al Quran is it available online?

Abz thanks for the video as well.

There are some people who deny the hadith and don't recognise them, by doing that they can give interpretations to the Qur'an that fits in with their desires and what they see as modern. They reject the hadith.

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

Greetings of peace

When I mentioned it as an example of strife between Sunnis, BlueBell said the Sufis are not real Sunnis (she didn't say anything about the bombers). What do you think? Who is a real Sunni in this case? The bombers, the Sufis, both, neither?

I think my post makes it clear. Anyone can go bomb someone and claim they're from a certain faith, if Islam doesn't encourage this either way, what does that say to you?

Bluebell initially brought up the question of sects among Christians; I was simply pointing out that Muslims have a similar problem (they divide into sects too). Would you agree?

Yes, division has been caused, but what the sis is saying that the Qur'aan and the prophet (SAW) does NOT encourage any of this division. As is why I quoted her post of the verse from the Qur'aan.

The prophet (saw) said that his nation will be divided upon 73 groups, and there one amongst those groups which is correct, he (SAW) was asked which group it will be, he (SAW) mentioned the one who follows the Qur'aan and his sunnah.

I quoted the Quran to showcase that sectarianism and sects aren't part of Islam..


:w:

I edited my post, inshaa'Allaah it makes sense now..

[Iconodule]

BlueBell made this point:

Sunnis don't break into cliques?

Nope

I think it's clear by now that the answer is "Yes."

[جوري]

I think it's clear by now that the answer is "Yes."

In your army of one I suppose..

best,

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

@ Iconodule

Please see this thread -->> Thread <<--

[Ramadhan]

Certainly they are God's representatives but they don't always represent him well.

so Holy ghost doesn't do his/her job or what?

No more than all your tafsirs, fiqh, hadith collections, madhhabs, prove that you keep changing the Quran.

This is an ignorance that doesn't deserve even a laugh, but only pity.

Give me two qur'ans that are not the same, if you are truthful with what you are saying.

In the the meantime, I will give you literally thousands of different bible versions.

protestant bible is different from roman cahtolics, which is different from eastern orthodox, which is different from ethiopian orthodox.
new world translation bible is different from new international version, which is different from KJV/ Latin vulgate bible is different from codex sinaiticus.
And codex sinaiticus does not even contain records of jesus' real sayings and actions.

[Salahudeen]

Thanks Salahudeen for the answers. Sometimes I see Muslims debating over the meaning of a particular verse and so by this ayat they shouldn't do this? This ayat is very telling considering a lot of people are interpreting things for their own benefit.
An example if I may take would be that verse in relation to women and covering their hair in surah Al Nur which I seem to notice a lot of Muslims debating it's meaning. Now as far as I know it doesn't explicitly say hair or head (and like you said arabic plays a role) but if going by the method you have given the next step they should take is looking to the sunnah. As far as I know I came across a hadith in which Muhammad said to a young girl who was wearing little clothing that when a girl reaches maturity she should cover her body except two places and he pointed to her face and feet I think. I can't locate the hadith right now but you probably know it. So why do Muslims still debate over some meanings of the quran if the answer is in the sunnah?

Also that book uloom al Quran is it available online?

Abz thanks for the video as well.

Sorry I forgot to mention, Uloom al Qur'an isn't a book, it means "sciences of Qur'an" it's a whole subject basically. The book by Yasir Qadhi, "introduction to the sciences of the Qur'an" is good, shall I find a PDF version for you? You're right in what you said, the sunnah is examples of the law in practice.

[Crystal]

This ayat is very telling considering a lot of people are interpreting things for their own benefit.
An example if I may take would be that verse in relation to women and covering their hair in surah Al Nur which I seem to notice a lot of Muslims debating it's meaning. Now as far as I know it doesn't explicitly say hair or head (and like you said arabic plays a role) but if going by the method you have given the next step they should take is looking to the sunnah. As far as I know I came across a hadith in which Muhammad said to a young girl who was wearing little clothing that when a girl reaches maturity she should cover her body except two places and he pointed to her face and feet I think. I can't locate the hadith right now but you probably know it. So why do Muslims still debate over some meanings of the quran if the answer is in the sunnah?

I was away for a while so just getting back to this however a lot of the posts have nothing to do with my original question! So basically my main question like above is Why do Muslims debate over meanings if there are certain steps to interpretation : follow quran, sunnah,...yet even after this some Muslims still debate about the meaning of a verse?

[M.I.A.]

the quran is a reinforcement of belief, a lot of people do not understand the arabic but recite anyway. they are not any less worthy in stature or iman in not understanding.
if you do pursue a path of trying to understand the quran then you will be constantly learning and mostly in error, but that is the whole point is it not? and if you remove your errors in understanding then that is truth.. not the speaking of verses again and again but in trying to convey the truth.

its a case of reading about the blind leading the blind and how they are doomed and then reading op's post and realising the same can be said about those that wanted sight.

my question would be why any person would want to understand the quran, for what purpose?
if it is to get closer to god then those with opinions about the quran and its interpretation should try and explain what they have found out about god.

the truth is an imam can talk for half an hour about the hardness of peoples hearts and by the end of prayer men will still be shouting about the crying toddler at the back. its a joke in itself..

no matter how plainly you speak it some people will not understand.

in closing there is only one god, he can guide those without sight and let stray those with clear sight. the quran makes it very clear the distinction between those that will be saved and those that will not is not understanding but sincere belief and action.
so if you look inside yourself whenever you post maybe one day you might see the intentions that drive you at heart.

[Crystal]

introduction to the sciences of the Qur'an" is good, shall I find a PDF version for you?

I would appreciate that :)

[Crystal]

my question would be why any person would want to understand the quran, for what purpose?

Thanks for your reply. I do believe though it is important to understand the quran because if I decide to be a Muslim then it is the quran that is going to tell me how to live my life.

[Ghazalah]

^It will be like a instructions manual to your life, well that's the way I see it :hmm: so many ayahs talk about the need to understand the Quran, it's the biggest miracle of all time, it's the words of Allah swt.

[Salahudeen]

I would appreciate that :)

Here's the video series for you, the link for the book is at the bottom of the post,




































http://www.islamicsearchcenter.com/l...asir-Qadhi.pdf



^It takes a while to load so wait for it.