Four Christian Terrorists Arrested in United States

[sabr*]

As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

Four Christian men belonging to a Militia group were arrested on Tuesday
in what the Justice Department described as a plot to use guns, bombs and the toxin ricin
to kill federal and state officials and spread terror.

The reason why this report is downplayed and why the correct title of the article not
applied is commonsense. If these four claimed Islam as their religion it would have
been titled as Muslim or Islamic terrorist. The writers of these articles are aligned
with the Zionist state. Review the names...

The majority of Publishers, Editors and writers are Jewish. Not a conspiracy theory
look up the aforementioned with the major publications.


source: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/02/us/4-georgia-men-are-arrested-in-terror-plot.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

[Hamza Asadullah]

If no Muslims were involved then it wouldnt be of any use for their agenda which is to defame Islam and Muslims in order to vreate Islamaphobia. But those with their eyes open know that Islam is NOTHING like how it is portrayed in the media and that the real terrorsists are the zionists and their helpers who would not hesitate to do everything possible in order to achieve their ultimate aim - zion. Allah willing they will never achieve it for success is with the true believers.

[جوري]

This bit of news has gotten very little attention here.. it didn't take as much air time as say the alleged 'underwear' bomber.. and I see no precautions that violate more human rights being borne of it..
hypocrisy? I'd say I am surprised that the Zionist media gave it any attention at all were it not targeting Zionist officials..

best,

[Crystal]

I know it must be annoying for Muslims when it comes to the media and the way in which they are interpreted but at the end of the day a lot of people have entered Islam because of Islam in the media. I for example became interested in Islam because of the media (it that wasn't the only reason). I think after 9/11 more people wanted to know what Islam is and a lot of Islamic centres in America claim that after 9/11 they had more non muslims wanting to know about Islam. There's a good and bad side to everything.

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[MartyrX]

I'm surprised that they didn't try to blame Muslims in some way.

[Muezzin]

Well, I'm glad the authorities prevented any attack.

[Fakrun]

Four Christian men belonging to a Militia group were arrested on Tuesday
in what the Justice Department described as a plot to use guns, bombs and the toxin ricin
to kill federal and state officials and spread terror.

Asalaamu alaikum,

I'm sorry but respectfully, no where in the article does it define their religious affiliation. The most we can PROBABLY say is that they were "non-Muslim". Anything else is an assumption.

Shouldn't we not be so quick to place a label on someone?

In fact, it makes no mention whatsoever of any connection to Islam/Islamaphobia. The goal of these people was "to kill federal and state officials and spread terror."

[sister herb]

Salam alaykum

calling them "christian terrorists" reminds me how people called that terrorist in Norway as christian terrorist even he had announced he doesn´t support christianity.

^o)

[Fakrun]

Salam alaykum

calling them "christian terrorists" reminds me how people called that terrorist in Norway as christian terrorist even he had announced he doesn´t support christianity.

Wa alaikum Asalaamu Sister,

Exactly. Isn't it better that we condemn the ACT and not the PERSON? We, as imperfect humans, can see the acts of a person but we can not see into the heart. That is for Allah alone.

There is a TV commercial running here (for an antacid) where they say "You wouldn't want your doctor doing your job (and it shows a doctor using a jackhammer) so don't do your doctor's job (and it shows the construction worker in the antacid isle of the drug store).

We should be more like that with people. Condemn what we can see but leave the judging of the person to the one who is more skilled that anyone, Allah.

[User29123]

Wow it shows how they totally hate Islam, Inshallah our Victory will come soon! ^o)

[Fakrun]

Wow it shows how they totally hate Islam, Inshallah our Victory will come soon!

Asalaamu alaikum,

Maybe I misread something or missed it but could you point out just HOW it showed how they "totally hate Islam"?

[joedawun]

The article doesn't say anything at all about Islam or Muslims. However, I'm sure that one could arrive at that conclusion very easily without without having bothered to shoulder the burden of reading the brief article.

[Iconodule]

Unfortunately some people use Christianity as an ideological security blanket beneath which they hide anti-Christian ideologies like nation-worship, racialism, etc.

[crimsontide06]

I have no plans to discuss politics on these forums but... isn't labeling someone as a Christian terrorists no different from someone labeling people as Muslim terrorists? No need for that.

[جوري]

isn't labeling someone as a Christian terrorists no different from someone labeling people as Muslim terrorists? No need for that.

The irony lies therein in fact. The labeling of terrorists with Islam and not doing the same with Christians when that's in fact what it is as we've also seen in Norway.. and loads of other places...
Politics isn't about handling christian sensibilities with kid gloves..

:w:

[sister herb]

Salam alaykum

here isn´t christian terrorists, jew terrorists, muslim terrorist.

Only terrorists.

[MartyrX]

I haven't read anything other than these guys were anti-Government. However with the guy in Norway that has been mentioned that he was Christian and the media downplayed that and labelled him a madman.

[جوري]

I haven't read anything other than these guys were anti-Government. However with the guy in Norway that has been mentioned that he was Christian and the media downplayed that and labelled him a madman.

The irony is any Muslim who is 'anti-government' is considered just that a 'Muslim terrorist' they send out their drones to kill them without trial .. by the same token Christians who are anti-govt. should be labeled the same if Christianity happens to be their religion.

Obviously there's a double standard, but it isn't new..

:w:

[User29123]

Asalaamu alaikum,

Maybe I misread something or missed it but could you point out just HOW it showed how they "totally hate Islam"?

Oh no I was on about the whole media, every time a Muslim does something it's on the news all over the place, yet a non-Muslim does it and it does not even last 5 minutes on the channels.

[User29123]

Salam alaykum

here isn´t christian terrorists, jew terrorists, muslim terrorist.

Only terrorists.

Correct, but when a Muslim does it they are labelled "Muslim Terrorist" or "Jihadist"

[Pygoscelis]

It depends on the particular case at hand.

If a terrorist or other badly behaving person does what they do without pushing their religion or without being motivated by it or using it to justify or rationalize their actions, then it makes no sense to label them "Muslim Terrorist" or "Christian Terrorist" (or "Atheist Terrorist" for that matter). It is just a hateful spin on what is going on.

If, on the other hand, their religion IS being used to motivate or justify their actions then reporting their religion is perfectly ok to do. If some lady kills her child because she wants to cleanse it of demons, religion is key to the story. If some guy blows himself up on a bus because he's imagined some kind of holy war with nonbelievers, religion is again key to the story.

[Fakrun]

It depends on the particular case at hand.

If a terrorist or other badly behaving person does what they do without pushing their religion or without being motivated by it or using it to justify or rationalize their actions, then it makes no sense to label them "Muslim Terrorist" or "Christian Terrorist" (or "Atheist Terrorist" for that matter). It is just a hateful spin on what is going on.

If, on the other hand, their religion IS being used to motivate or justify their actions then reporting their religion is perfectly ok to do. If some lady kills her child because she wants to cleanse it of demons, religion is key to the story. If some guy blows himself up on a bus because he's imagined some kind of holy war with nonbelievers, religion is again key to the story.

Asalaamu alaikum,

Now THAT is logical and precise! However, this article made absolutely no mention of religion in any form so for US to place a label upon them makes us no better than the media who mistakenly associate "Muslim" and "Terrorist" as if they were one in the same.

[sister herb]

Correct, but when a Muslim does it they are labelled "Muslim Terrorist" or "Jihadist"

How WE can change it? Whining it in forums? May I correct you a little: muslims don´t do it, terrorism as it is against islam. There isn´t muslim terrorists at all as well no christian terrorists or jew terrorists.

[Abz2000]

when a man gets tempted by the fbi to irrationally and un-Islamically blow up a tree or some common folk at a shopping mall - because he is angry with the murders of his people - they call it "muslim terrorist" or "Islam inspired"- despite them often clearly saying it was due to anger at the state murder of innocent people and even writing notes confirming their reasons.
maybe they will one day call these sort of attacks "Islam inspired copycat attacks".
the lamestream media can be quite creative.
can't have them go to waste now can we?

[sister herb]

Salam alaykum

In Europe have or have been many nationalist groups making acts someone could call terrorism like IRA or groups in ex-Jugoslavia. In Europe every year have about 100 terrorist attacks and just 2 of them made by "islamist". Thanks to media that people are scared when see sister by hijab or brother by beard on street.

;D Heeeeeeeee I am terrorist because of this I have on my head?

[جوري]

when a man gets tempted by the fbi to irrationally and un-Islamically blow up a tree or some common folk at a shopping mall - because he is angry with the murders of his people - they call it "muslim terrorist" or "Islam inspired"- despite them often clearly saying it was due to anger at the state murder of innocent people and even writing notes confirming their reasons.
maybe they will one day call these sort of attacks "Islam inspired copycat attacks".
the lamestream media can be quite creative.
can't have them go to waste now can we?

How should agents provocateurs fresh out of prison make a living do you suppose if not egging foolish teenage Muslims? They suffer the ill effect of the economy too and this is about the only area left where you can still make a good buck.. half the country are spies, 1/3 thieves and the rest occupying wall street..

welcome to the new world order...

[Fakrun]

How WE can change it? Whining it in forums? May I correct you a little: muslims don´t do it, terrorism as it is against islam. There isn´t muslim terrorists at all as well no christian terrorists or jew terrorists.

Asalaamu alaikum,

But here's the rub....

The victims of these acts, they are the ones who don't realize that there is a difference between what the "Muslim terrorists" SAAAYS he is and what he ACTUALLY is. If I committed an act of terror and died screaming "Allah Akbar", then the people who heard it of COURSE would come to the conclusion that I was a Muslim. Add to that if I went out and bought a Burka or Niqab...people see what they want to see and they hear what they want to hear.

That is why it is SO important for us to separate ourselves from the acts and thinking of people like that. So that when OTHER people hear about an act of a so-called Muslim, those OTHER people can say...."but wait a second. I know Muslims and that's not accurate....something's different here." It is our thinking and acting that separate us from the good people and the bad people.

[Abz2000]

problem is that when we are too vocal in distancing ourselves from them, the lamestream media use it as capital to show that they are victim - when really they are party to and perpetrators of horrendous acts of terror and murder throughout the world.
secondly - they use it to discredit acts of legitimate resistance in illegally occupied lands, and call people fighting occupation "terrorists", "insurgents" "extremists" by making generalizations.
which is why i personally mention these stupid acts as being against the laws of Islam, and then mention that many are false flag (proven), and many are also wrongly done by people who are angry at the continued murder and violation of their people.
but no way would i be so foolish as to fall into continually condemning someone who's just irrationally reacted after having being harassed, hounded, provoked, had family murdered, tortured etc.
it's like over-condemning a weak person whose just reacted to the harassment and torture of a perpetual bully with a bottle to the head.
and giving political capital to the real terrorists in seats of authority.

here's what they themselves say when their allies commit crimes:
when you reach 8 seconds - hit zero



they call it propaganda

[Fakrun]

Oh no I was on about the whole media, every time a Muslim does something it's on the news all over the place, yet a non-Muslim does it and it does not even last 5 minutes on the channels.

Asalaamu alaikum,

I just had a novel thought.....

Maybe the reason "Muslim Terrorists" get so much more news coverage is because its so rare for us, like an odd novelty. We're so used to violence done by a whole range of idiots that suddeenly, we have a group of people who we are now being forced to recognize. Granted, the idiots doing the terrorizing are perverting Islam, but they are still crying "Muslim". Now we're being forced to recognize a formally under recognized section of humanity. Unfortunately, we've gone from ignoring a whole group of people to MISUNDERSTANDING them..

[جوري]

After the downfall of communism, Islam is the only thing standing against that 'new world order' the police state the western style democracy and globalization ... So it will be on the news in many colorful ways and they'll fight us in anyway they can..

[Abz2000]

Now we're being forced to recognize a formally under recognized section of humanity. Unfortunately, we've gone from ignoring a whole group of people to MISUNDERSTANDING them..

if there were 5 people on this planet - 1 of them would be Muslim
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...us_populations
- how they still make us out to be a minority in nearly all countries - God knows, even in Muslim majority countries - they seem to make a distinction between muslim and "Islamist" (ie non muslim and real muslim). we are the strangers - Al Ghurabaa - as prophesied.

anyway, back to topic - one really needs to look into the meaning of the term terrorist, and we will see that the U.S government fits the bill nicely:

Terrorism is the systematic use of terror, especially as a means of coercion. In the international community, however, terrorism has no universally agreed, legally binding, criminal law definition.
Common definitions of terrorism refer only to those violent acts which are intended to create fear (terror), are perpetrated for a religious, political or ideological goal, and deliberately target or disregard the safety of non-combatants (civilians).
Some definitions now exclude acts of state terrorism and some also include acts of unlawful violence and war.
The use of similar tactics by criminal organizations for protection rackets or to enforce a code of silence is usually not labeled terrorism
though these same actions may be labeled terrorism when done by a politically motivated group.

amazing huh?
they cut out their own names from the definition and leave a vague meaning to it, so instead of people thinking of the definition of the word - they see a picture which can be changed at will.
and that picture usually has a beard and a long shirt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype



family guy gives us a good insight into how they depend on a dumbed down public to perpetrate their deceptions:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

[truthseeker63]

Any Religion can have Terrorists.

[sabr*]

As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

Two of the accused Dan Roberts, 67, and Ray Adams, 65 are members of a Tocca, GA
Church. The only churches in Tocca, GA are Christian. Now many continue to
put there head in the sand but the facts can't be altered. It took us 40 minutes
to research it. Many have no real interest in the facts.

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/pages/?tags=Ray+Adams

The following people claimed Christianity and have been convicted or charged with terrorism. (Facts only)
There was an attempt to falsely claim Timothy McVeigh association with Islamic terror groups to distance
his actions away from Christianity. (Sounds crazy doesn't it)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeig


Timothy McVeigh
Terry Nichlos

Every American White Supremacist organization's basic foundation is belief in Christianity.
(These aforementioned groups mainstream Christians will distance themselves)

These groups commit domestic terrorism.

Origins: Mid-to-late 1993
Prominent leaders: John Trochmann (Montana), Ron Gaydosh (Michigan),
Randy Miller (Texas), Charlie Puckett (Kentucky), Mark Koernke (Michigan),
Carl Worden (Oregon), Gib Ingwer (Ohio)

Prominent groups: Kentucky State Militia, Ohio Unorganized Militia Assistance
and Advisory Committee, Southeastern Ohio Defense Force, Michigan Militia
(two factions using the same name), Southern Indiana Regional Militia,
Southern California High Desert Militia-and many others

Outreach: Gun shows, shortwave radio, newsletters, the Internet

Ideology: Anti-government and conspiracy-oriented in nature; prominent focus on firearms
Prominent militia arrests: Multiple members of the following groups have been arrested and
convicted, usually on weapons, explosives, or conspiracy charges: Oklahoma Constitutional Militia,
Georgia Republic Militia, Arizona Viper Militia, Washington State Militia, West Virginia Mountaineer Militia,
Twin Cities Free Militia, North American Militia, San Joaquin County Militia.


NOTE: Review our thread on Conspiracy theories. We don't subscribe and are not associated with conspiracy theorist.
Just the facts!

[Fakrun]

As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

Two of the accused Dan Roberts, 67, and Ray Adams, 65 are members of a Tocca, GA
Church. The only churches in Tocca, GA are Christian. Now many continue to
put there head in the sand but the facts can't be altered. It took us 40 minutes
to research it. Many have no real interest in the facts.

Asalaamu alaikum,

They may CLAIM to be christian but that doesn't mean they are REAL christians, the way that the church intends for it to be. Thinking that they are prime examples of "christianity" is like Americans thinking that the 9/11 bombers are prime examples of Islam. Its ludicrous! What's MORE important than their religion, is their politics. They were ALL neo-Confederates (I had to look it up cause I had never heard the term before).

These people want to bring the days of the confederate states and slavery back. I truly believe that this has no connection to Islam (except getting lumped into a whole bag with everyone else that ISN'T a neo-Confederate).

What we were discussing was the ORIGINAL article, not the facts of the people...just the original article, and THAT didn't make mention of any religious leanings.

[sabr*]

Asalaamu alaikum,

They may CLAIM to be christian but that doesn't mean they are REAL christians, the way
that the church intends for it to be. Thinking that they are prime examples of "christianity" i
s like Americans thinking that the 9/11 bombers are prime examples of Islam. Its ludicrous!
What's MORE important than their religion, is their politics. They were ALL neo-Confederates
(I had to look it up cause I had never heard the term before).

These people want to bring the days of the confederate states and slavery back. I truly believe
that this has no connection to Islam (except getting lumped into a whole bag with everyone else
that ISN'T a neo-Confederate).

What we were discussing was the ORIGINAL article, not the facts of the people...just the original
article, and THAT didn't make mention of any religious leanings.

Peace be to you Fukran:

We acknowledge misinformation is the course of the day when people
reporting have an objective.

If anyone has studied the basic principals of Christianity they realize the following facts:
_______________________________________________

The Major Denominations:

Roman Catholic - The Roman Catholic Church denomination is the largest
Christian group in the world today with more than a billion followers constituting
about half of the world's Christian population.

Eastern Orthodox- Approximately 225 million people worldwide are Orthodox Christians.

Protestant- There are approximately 500 million Protestants in the world.

159 Million People in the United States claim Christianity has there religion.

So that would translate about 75% of adults identify themselves as Christian in America.
________________________________________________

In Islam there is no separation of State verse Religion. The Right Wing political
party in the United States openly expresses their intention to include Christianity
with Politics and are not labeled Christian Radicals or Christian Fundamentalist.

This thread only pointed out the hypocrisy in the Western media.

[Fakrun]

This thread only pointed out the hypocrisy in the Western media.

Asalaamu alaikum,

Respectfully, I disagree with your statement. This was the original post:

Four Christian men belonging to a Militia group were arrested on Tuesday
in what the Justice Department described as a plot to use guns, bombs and the toxin ricin
to kill federal and state officials and spread terror.

The reason why this report is downplayed and why the correct title of the article not
applied is commonsense. If these four claimed Islam as their religion it would have
been titled as Muslim or Islamic terrorist. The writers of these articles are aligned
with the Zionist state. Review the names...

The majority of Publishers, Editors and writers are Jewish. Not a conspiracy theory
look up the aforementioned with the major publications.

The article URL that was posted made ZERO mention of religion. Think about that. WHO put in the label of 'Christian' and then paired it with 'Militia'? A Muslim did.

Now, I'll be one of the first to admit that western media tends to be quick to label ALL Muslims as terrorists, but, to quote a Muslim website on Facebook: "Take not the character of the enemy you despise when you oppose him.", so why ARE we behaving in that manner? Why are we inserting the label of 'Christian' as being part and parcel of their reasons WHY they were part of a a subversive militia?

Those people were spouting their hatred of our democratic government and race integration, not the "this good christian land is being polluted by god hating, Jesus hating, freedom hating (insert whatever hating statement here)...".

Their motives had nothing to do with religion, so, why are we committing the same crime here that we are screaming about other people doing elsewhere??

[sabr*]

Asalaamu alaikum,

Respectfully, I disagree with your statement. This was the original post:



The article URL that was posted made ZERO mention of religion. Think about that.
WHO put in the label of 'Christian' and then paired it with 'Militia'? A Muslim did.

Now, I'll be one of the first to admit that western media tends to be quick to label
ALL Muslims as terrorists, but, to quote a Muslim website on Facebook:
"Take not the character of the enemy you despise when you oppose him.",
so why ARE we behaving in that manner? Why are we inserting the label of 'Christian'
as being part and parcel of their reasons WHY they were part of a a subversive militia?

Those people were spouting their hatred of our democratic government and race integration,
not the "this good christian land is being polluted by god hating, Jesus hating, freedom hating
(insert whatever hating statement here)...".

Their motives had nothing to do with religion, so, why are we committing the same crime here
that we are screaming about other people doing elsewhere??

Peace to you Fakrun:

It appears you will continue to neglect that these men are adherence of Christianity.

The evidence supports the labeling and didn't require research or follow-up
but we realized that is what is required so we provided the additional information.

And you continued to separate the ideas of the Christian Militia from mainstream
Christianity. Is this the same good Christian country that enslaved African Americans
that you reference? Is that the same good Christian country that violated the rights
and committed genocide on Native Americans. I know Christian conveniently forget
and compartmentalize history.

Historical Facts:

The enslavement of African Americans hopefully will not be disputed was committed
by Christians. The opposition of civil rights was also committed by Christians.

From the 1490s when Christopher Columbus set foot on the Americas to the 1890 massacre
of Sioux at Wounded Knee by the United States military, the indigenous population of the
Western Hemisphere may have declined, the direct cause mostly from disease, to 1.8 from as many as 100 million.

In Brazil alone the indigenous population has declined from a Pre-Columbian high of an estimated 3 million to some 300,000 (1997).

Estimates of how many people were living in the Americas when Columbus arrived have varied tremendously; 20th century scholarly
estimates ranged from a low of 8.4 million to a high of 112.5 million persons. This population debate has often had ideological underpinnings.

Robert Royal writes that "estimates of Pre-Columbian population figures have become heavily politicized with scholars who are particularly
critical of Europe and/or Western civilization often favoring wildly higher figures."


Scholars now believe that, among the various contributing factors, epidemic disease was
the overwhelming direct cause of the population decline of the American natives.

After first contacts with Europeans some believe that the death of 90 to 95% of the native
population of the New World was caused by Old World diseases such as smallpox and measles.

Some estimates indicate case fatality rates of 80-90% in Native American populations during smallpox epidemics.


One of the most important yet highly disputed pieces of information regarding the intentional ethnocide of indigenous
populations in the Americas was possible intentional use of disease as a biological weapon, which was first posited by
British forces under the command of Jeffery Amherst.

There is, however, only one documented case of germ warfare, involving British commander Jeffrey Amherst.
It is uncertain whether this documented British attempt successfully infected the Indians.



American writer David Quammen has likened the colonial American policies and practices toward
Native Americans with those of Australia toward its aboriginal populations, calling them
"brutal, hypocritical, opportunistic, and even genocidal in the fullest sense of the word."


Authors such as the Holocaust expert David Cesarani have argued that the government
and policies of the United States of America against certain indigenous peoples in furtherance of Manifest destiny
constituted genocide. Cesarani states that "in terms of the sheer numbers killed, the Native American Genocide exceeds
that of the Holocaust".

The Indian Removal Act of 1830 led to the Cherokee Trail of Tears.

Fakrun, the facts based upon history doesn't provide a favorable account on the good Christian
morals and values. Unless you are attempting to disavow the aforementioned accounts as
not being what you define as Christian. History would disagree with you.

Also we didn't incorrectly label the four men. They are affiliated with a Militia and are
adherents of Christianity. These are their own omissions. The historical accounts
shouldn't be construed as an attack on Christianity just the double standard
in the media and the conveniently compartmentalizing historical facts.

[Fakrun]

Is that the same good Christian country that violated the rights
and committed genocide on Native Americans.

Asalaamu alaikum,

Pssst....

I'm a Native American....in case you didn't know.

I am well aware of the atrocities done in the name of religion. It transcends country boundaries but what I'm saying is that these men, while laying claim to being christian (in faith) were not committing these acts in the name of religious belief, but in the name of political belief. In America, those can be two different things. Its not always the case, but it can be.

[sabr*]

Asalaamu alaikum,

Pssst....

I'm a Native American....in case you didn't know.

I am well aware of the atrocities done in the name of religion. It transcends country
boundaries but what I'm saying is that these men, while laying claim to being christian
(in faith) were not committing these acts in the name of religious belief, but in the name of political belief.
In America, those can be two different things. Its not always the case, but it can be.

Peace to you Fakrun:

We accept your above assessment.

Is Fakrun turtle?

[Fakrun]

Peace to you Fakrun:

We accept your above assessment.

Is Fakrun turtle?

Asalaamu alaikum,

That's what Google translate tells me it means...:D

[sister herb]

Salam alaykum

should muslims make same mistake than christians? Calling people whose use religion as reason for they crimes as religion terrorist?

I think we should be more civiliazed than them. Even in media.

[Fakrun]

Salam alaykum

should muslims make same mistake than christians? Calling people whose use religion as reason for they crimes as religion terrorist?

I think we should be more civiliazed than them. Even in media.

Asalaamu alaikum,

5:8
O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm for Allah , witnesses in justice, and do not let the hatred of a people prevent you from being just. Be just; that is nearer to righteousness. And fear Allah ; indeed, Allah is Acquainted with what you do.


The problem, Dear Sister, is that if someone comes charging at you, wielding a sword and screaming religious edict, then it is natural to associate the religion with the act. The problem here, in this case, is that the idiots in the militia were NOT screaming "God-has-declared-that-we-kill-our-government-officials-and-bring-back-slavery", yet, simply because they lay claim to being christian, the Muslims here took that to mean that it was out of religious hatred that they were part of the militia and wanted to kill and then it was taken even further to encompass ALL Americans as being religious zealots who hate anyone who is not a Christian. THAT is where the mistake happened. How is that "being just" as it states in Quran to do? It isn't and THAT, dear friends, is imitation of the kaafirs.

[sister herb]

Christianity forbid terrorism.

[Fakrun]

Christianity forbid terrorism.

Asalaamu alaikum,

Why, yes, yes it does dear sister and so does Islam. Islam STRICTLY forbids suicide.....however....that doesn't stop people who SAY they are Christians or Muslims from committing grievous acts that go against their respective religious edicts, now does it? :) Does that mean that they are the prime example of what that religion or country's beliefs are? NO!....:) and we should prevent ourselves from making the same mistake of making that misjudgement. Isn't that what's better?

[sabr*]

Asalaamu alaikum,

5:8
O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm for Allah , witnesses in justice,
and do not let the hatred of a people prevent you from being just. Be just; that is nearer
to righteousness. And fear Allah ; indeed, Allah is Acquainted with what you do.


The problem, Dear Sister, is that if someone comes charging at you, wielding a sword
and screaming religious edict, then it is natural to associate the religion with the act.
The problem here, in this case, is that the idiots in the militia were NOT screaming
"God-has-declared-that-we-kill-our-government-officials-and-bring-back-slavery",
yet, simply because they lay claim to being christian, the Muslims here took that to
mean that it was out of religious hatred that they were part of the militia and wanted
to kill and then it was taken even further to encompass ALL Americans as being religious
zealots who hate anyone who is not a Christian. THAT is where the mistake happened.
How is that "being just" as it states in Quran to do? It isn't and THAT, dear friends, is
imitation of the kaafirs.

Peace to you Fakrun:

Your characterization is incorrect of what you think people are thinking.

We have a command of history, commonsense, and the understanding
of the media's intentional disinformation regarding Muslims.

We only pointed out that people who claim other religions no matter
how authentic or accurate their view are not treated the same.

The research on the accused men was only for the benefit of
people who would divorce themselves from the reality of
what they adhered. Which was expected.

Just the facts!

[sabr*]

Salam alaykum

should muslims make same mistake than christians? Calling people whose
use religion as reason for they crimes as religion terrorist?

I think we should be more civiliazed than them. Even in media.

As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

Ukhti sister harb:

you misunderstood the point of the thread. We have a command of
what mainstream Christians believe. That is just like those who
claim to be adherents of Islam disobeying killing innocent women,
children, elderly and non-combatants and justifying it and receiving
unfettered support. Muslims can't say that these violators are not Muslims.
No different with adherents who claim Christianity no matter how off
the wall the beliefs. You see the convenient compartmentalization when
addressing how the Christians enslaved Africans and committed genocide
on Native Americans.

[Fakrun]

Peace to you Fakrun:

Your characterization is incorrect of what you think people are thinking.

We have a command of history, commonsense, and the understanding
of the media's intentional disinformation regarding Muslims.

We only pointed out that people who claim other religions no matter
how authentic or accurate their view are not treated the same.

Asalaamu alaikum,

I'll grant you that you probably are more aware of the media's intentional disinformation regarding Muslims (especially Fox News) but I wonder if you are taking sole ownership of historical knowledge and common sense that is not yours to lay claim to....or am I misunderstanding your intent behind your words? I just wanna double check.

The research on the accused men was only for the benefit of
people who would divorce themselves from the reality of
what they adhered. Which was expected.

Just the facts!

:) I like that line, "Just the facts, Ma'am, just the facts". Why? Because the fact is that the original article did not state that they were Christian, however, the original post by you included the description "Christian" in the opening paragraph as if it WAS part of the original printed story. How honorable is that?? What if someone didn't read the link and only read what you posted?? They would have walked away with inaccurate and misleading information. Now, if you had wanted to include, as a comment on the article, a statement saying that they were christian....that would have been different. That would have been accurate. The fact remains that their motives for trying to use Ricin wasn't religiously motivated. It doesn't make it any better....but that wasn't their motivation. That just makes them bad examples of Christianity.

[Fakrun]

You see the convenient compartmentalization when
addressing how the Christians enslaved Africans and committed genocide
on Native Americans.

Asalaamu Alaikum,

I think I understand what you are trying to say, however....

African's were enslaved because people thought that they were lower than human, not because God told them to enslave Black people.

The native's however....well, that WAS racial AND Religious persecution. It also didn't stop, the disassimilation of the native people from their culture and religious beliefs, until the 1970's when the last Government run "Indian School" was closed. Even today, children who are placed in foster care are NOT being placed in native homes (which by law is supposed to happen) but the majority are being placed in off-Rez white, Christian homes and the children loose all contact with the tribes. Our children are being stolen!

[sabr*]

Asalaamu alaikum,

I'll grant you that you probably are more aware of the media's intentional
disinformation regarding Muslims (especially Fox News) but I wonder if you
are taking sole ownership of historical knowledge and common sense that
is not yours to lay claim to....or am I misunderstanding your intent behind
your words? I just wanna double check.

Peace to you Fakrun:

We didn't create historical events so it would be asinine to claim it.
(Allah is the Al-'Alim (The All-knowing, The Knowledgeable; The One nothing is absent from His knowledge)

We also attribute our commonsense to the one who has blessed us with it. (Allah)

like that line, "Just the facts, Ma'am, just the facts". Why?
Because the fact is that the original article did not state that they were Christian,
however, the original post by you included the description "Christian" in the opening
paragraph as if it WAS part of the original printed story. How honorable is that??
What if someone didn't read the link and only read what you posted??
They would have walked away with inaccurate and misleading information.
Now, if you had wanted to include, as a comment on the article, a statement saying that they were christian....t
hat would have been different. That would have been accurate. T
he fact remains that their motives for trying to use Ricin wasn't religiously motivated.
It doesn't make it any better....but that wasn't their motivation.
That just makes them bad examples of Christianity.

Dragnet was a interesting crime drama series of the late sixties created, produced
and acted by Jack Webb as Sergent Joe Friday. (We love history)

The facts are the accused men admitted being in a Militia and
facts presented collaborated they are Christian adherents.
Even though they don't meet your litmus test of Christianity.

Now if you desire to sparse the facts that the original article didn't
detail these established facts would that be your only argument
to acknowledging they are Christian and are in a Militia that is racist?

No need to answer or further the discussion. A dead end.

[sabr*]

Asalaamu Alaikum,

I think I understand what you are trying to say, however....

African's were enslaved because people thought that they were lower than human,
not because God told them to enslave Black people.

The native's however....well, that WAS racial AND Religious persecution.
It also didn't stop, the disassimilation of the native people from their culture and
religious beliefs, until the 1970's when the last Government run "Indian School"
was closed.

Even today, children who are placed in foster care are NOT being placed in native
homes (which by law is supposed to happen) but the majority are being placed in
off-Rez white, Christian homes and the children loose all contact with the tribes.
Our children are being stolen!

Peace to you Fakrun:

Our response isn't Christian bashing just stating the facts.

What you described in your quote is simply called:

Proselytizing

Religious indoctrination which is usually done in childhood. (Catechism)

Religious missionaries have done this throughout Africa.

[MartyrX]

So far I've read nothing showing that they claimed to be or were Christian terrorists. Your original article doesn't mention it. Also we as Muslims get upset anytime Islam is painted in a negative light when terrorism is involved. We shouldn't rush to do the same thing when the shoe is on the other foot.

From what I've read these men were upset at the government and that was their goal. If I find out any new information I'll gladly retract my statement. Until then let's just go with what we've been presented and leave the finger pointing to other people.

[Fakrun]

So far I've read nothing showing that they claimed to be or were Christian terrorists. Your original article doesn't mention it. Also we as Muslims get upset anytime Islam is painted in a negative light when terrorism is involved. We shouldn't rush to do the same thing when the shoe is on the other foot.

From what I've read these men were upset at the government and that was their goal. If I find out any new information I'll gladly retract my statement. Until then let's just go with what we've been presented and leave the finger pointing to other people.

Asalaamu Alaikum,

Twus this not the same point I was trying to convey? Thank you brother. Maybe your words were plainer than mine.......I have other thoughts but I'll not express them.

[MartyrX]

Asalaamu Alaikum,

Twus this not the same point I was trying to convey? Thank you brother. Maybe your words were plainer than mine.......I have other thoughts but I'll not express them.

You're welcome.

[sabr*]

You're welcome.

As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

Akhi JeffX:

get acquainted with post 33.

[sister herb]

Salam alaykum

once again there can´t be christian, jew, muslim etc terrorosm as it is against they ideology.

[Abz2000]

i wouldn't knock the militias too quickly as they do get hated on by the government and vilified by the lamestream media,
sometimes they could even get framed and lied about just like many Muslims do.
check it out from their point of view:

[MartyrX]

As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

Akhi JeffX:

get acquainted with post 33.

Brother, no where in that link does it say they are christians. I have no doubt they are, but neither article says it. The attack was anti-government, and not based on any religious motivation. Second, just because the only churches in the area, are christian doesn't mena they are.