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truthseeker63
11-05-2011, 01:10 AM
Does Bin Laden's logic make sense ? Bin Laden said that American Citizens pay taxes and vote for our government therefor we are just as guilty for the crimes and for what are Government does does this logic make sense ?Our American Constitution says we the people to form a more perfect union therefor we the people are the government ? Or is our Government by Corporations and for Corporations since we have Lobbyists and Americans are forced to pay taxes ?

Full text: bin Laden's 'letter to America'

(a) This argument contradicts your continuous repetition that America is the land of freedom, and its leaders in this world. Therefore, the American people are the ones who choose their government by way of their own free will; a choice which stems from their agreement to its policies. Thus the American people have chosen, consented to, and affirmed their support for the Israeli oppression of the Palestinians, the occupation and usurpation of their land, and its continuous killing, torture, punishment and expulsion of the Palestinians. The American people have the ability and choice to refuse the policies of their Government and even to change it if they want.

(b) The American people are the ones who pay the taxes which fund the planes that bomb us in Afghanistan, the tanks that strike and destroy our homes in Palestine, the armies which occupy our lands in the Arabian Gulf, and the fleets which ensure the blockade of Iraq. These tax dollars are given to Israel for it to continue to attack us and penetrate our lands. So the American people are the ones who fund the attacks against us, and they are the ones who oversee the expenditure of these monies in the way they wish, through their elected candidates.

(c) Also the American army is part of the American people. It is this very same people who are shamelessly helping the Jews fight against us.

(d) The American people are the ones who employ both their men and their women in the American Forces which attack us.

(e) This is why the American people cannot be not innocent of all the crimes committed by the Americans and Jews against us.

(x) Your law is the law of the rich and wealthy people, who hold sway in their political parties, and fund their election campaigns with their gifts. Behind them stand the Jews, who control your policies, media and economy.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver
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Abz2000
11-06-2011, 12:50 AM
i find it difficult to agree since i live in england and am actively protesting against the government's criminality and am waking others up - but might feel the same if my country was illegally invaded and i was on the receiving end of those bombs and my family and friends were dying around me.
i would wonder how those people not only paid for it - but how they went about their daily lives without tearing down their government or at least everyone coming out to protest, while my family were dying.

secondly, despite it having an emotional touch to it, we must be cautious when getting news from the lamestream media - they often totally fabricate stories out of thin air.

here is obl's interview with ummah magazine - less than a month after the false flag attacks in new york:

Usama bin Laden Says the Al-Qa'idah Group had Nothing to Do with the 11 September Attacks

Interview published in newspaper Ummat Karachi, 28th September, 2001

The Al-Qaidah group had nothing to do with the 11 September attacks on the USA, according to Usama bin Ladin in an interview with the Pakistani newspaper Ummat. Usama bin Ladin went on to suggest that Jews or US secret services were behind the attacks, and to express gratitude and support for Pakistan, urging Pakistan’s people to jihad against the West. The following is the text of an interview conducted by a "special correspondent", published in the Pakistani newspaper Ummat on 28 September, place and date of interview not given.


UMMAT:
You have been accused of involvement in the attacks in New York and Washington. What do you want to say about this? If you are not involved, who might be?

USAMA BIN LADEN:
In the name of Allah (God), the most beneficent, the most merciful. Praise be to Allah, Who is the creator of the whole universe and Who made the Earth as an abode for peace, for the whole humankind. Allah is the Sustainer, who sent Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) for our guidance. I am thankful to the Ummat Group of Publications, which gave me the opportunity to convey my viewpoint to the people, particularly the valiant and momin (true Muslim) people of Pakistan who refused to believe the lies of the demon (Pakistani military dictator General Pervez Musharraf).

I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people. Such a practice is forbidden even in the course of a battle. It is the United States, which is perpetrating every maltreatment on women, children and common people of other faiths, particularly the followers of Islam. All that is going on in Palestine for the last 11 months is sufficient to call the wrath of God upon the United States and Israel. There is also a warning for those Muslim countries, which witnessed all these as a silent spectator. What had earlier been done to the innocent people of Iraq, Chechnya and Bosnia? Only one conclusion could be derived from the indifference of the United States and the West to these acts of terror and the patronage of the tyrants by these powers that America is an anti-Islamic power and it is patronizing the anti-Islamic forces. Its friendship with the Muslim countries is just a show, rather deceit. By enticing or intimidating these countries, the United States is forcing them to play a role of its choice. Put a glance all around and you will see that the slaves of the United States are either rulers or enemies of Muslims.

The U.S. has no friends, nor does it want to keep any because the prerequisite of friendship is to come to the level of the friend or consider him at par with you. America does not want to see anyone equal to it. It expects slavery from others. Therefore, other countries are either its slaves or subordinates. However, our case is different. We have pledged slavery to God Almighty alone and after this pledge there is no possibility to become the slave of someone else. If we do that it will be disregardful to both our Sustainer and his fellow beings. Most of the world nations upholding their freedom are the religious ones, which are the enemies of the United States, or the U.S. itself considers them as its enemies.

The countries which do not agree to become the U.S. slaves are China, Iran, Libya, Cuba, Syria [Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Iraq, Sudan, Indonesia, Malaysia] and Russia. Whoever committed the act of 11 September are not the friends of the American people. I have already said that we are against the American system, not against its people, whereas in these attacks, the common American people have been killed. According to my information, the death toll is much higher than what the U.S. Government has stated. But the Bush Administration does not want the panic to spread. The United States should try to trace the perpetrators of these attacks within itself; the people who are a part of the U.S. system, but are dissenting against it. Or those who are working for some other system; persons who want to make the present century as a century of conflict between Islam and Christianity so that their own civilization, nation, country, or ideology could survive. They can be anyone, from Russia to Israel and from India to Serbia. In the U.S. itself, there are dozens of well-organized and well-equipped groups, which are capable of causing a large-scale destruction. Then you cannot forget the American-Jews, who are annoyed with President Bush ever since the elections in Florida and want to avenge him.

Then there are intelligence agencies in the U.S., which require billions of dollars worth of funds from the Congress and the government every year. This [funding issue] was not a big problem till the existence of the former Soviet Union but after that the budget of these agencies has been in danger. They needed an enemy. So, they first started propaganda against Usama and Taleban and then this incident happened. You see, the Bush Administration approved a budget of 40 billion dollars. Where will this huge amount go? It will be provided to the same agencies, which need huge funds and want to exert their importance. Now they will spend the money for their expansion and for increasing their importance. I will give you an example. Drug smugglers from all over the world are in contact with the U.S. secret agencies. These agencies do not want to eradicate narcotics cultivation and trafficking because their importance will be diminished. The people in the U.S. Drug Enforcement Department are encouraging drug trade so that they could show performance and get millions of dollars worth of budget. General Noriega was made a drug baron by the CIA and, in need, he was made a scapegoat. In the same way, whether it is President Bush or any other U.S. President, they cannot bring Israel to justice for its human rights abuses or to hold it accountable for such crimes. What is this? Is it not that there exists a government within the government in the United Sates? That secret government must be asked as to who carried out the attacks.

UMMAT:
A number of world countries have joined the call of the United States for launching attacks on Afghanistan. These also include a number of Muslim countries. Will Al-Qa'idah declare a jihad against these Islamic countries as well?

USAMA BIN LADEN:
I must say that my duty is just to awaken the Muslims; to tell them as to what is good for them and what is not. What does Islam say and what do the enemies of Islam want. Al-Qa'idah was set up to wage a jihad against infidelity, particularly to counter the onslaught of the infidel countries against the Islamic states. Jihad is the sixth undeclared pillar of Islam. [The first five being the basic holy words of Islam ("There is no god but God and Muhammad is the messenger of God"), prayers, fasting (in Ramadan), pilgrimage to Mecca and giving alms (zakat).] Every anti-Islamic person is afraid of jihad. Al-Qa'idah wants to keep jihad alive and active and make it a part of the daily life of the Muslims. It wants to give it the status of worship. We are not against any Islamic country. We do not consider a war against an Islamic country as jihad. We are in favour of armed jihad only against those infidel governments, which are killing innocent Muslim men, women and children just because they are Muslims. Supporting the U.S. act is the need of some Muslim countries and the compulsion of others. However, they should think as to what will remain of their religious and moral position if they support the attack of the Christians and the Jews on a Muslim country like Afghanistan. The orders of Islamic Shariah [jurisprudence] for such individuals, organizations and countries are clear and all the scholars of the Muslim brotherhood are unanimous on them. We will do the same, which is being ordered by the Ameer-ul-Momeneen [the commander of the faithful] Muhammad Omar [leader of the Taleban] and the Islamic scholars. The hearts of the people of Muslim countries are beating with the call of jihad. We are grateful to them.

UMMAT:
The losses caused in the attacks in New York and Washington have proved that giving an economic blow to the U.S. is not too difficult. U.S. experts admit that a few more such attacks can bring down the American economy. Why is Al-Qa'idah not targeting their economic pillars?

USAMA BIN LADEN:
I have already said that we are not hostile to the United States. We are against the [U.S. Government] system, which makes other nations slaves of the United States, or forces them to mortgage their political and economic freedom. This system is totally in the control of the American Jews, whose first priority is Israel, not the United States. It is clear that the American people are themselves the slaves of the Jews and are forced to live according to the principles and laws laid down by them. So the punishment should reach Israel. In fact, it is Israel, which is giving a blood bath to innocent Muslims and the U.S. is not uttering a single word.

UMMAT:
Why is harm not caused to the enemies of Islam through other means, apart from the armed struggle? For instance, urging the Muslims to boycott Western products, banks, shipping lines and TV channels.

USAMA BIN LADEN:
The first thing is that Western products could only be boycotted when the Muslim fraternity is fully awakened and organized. Secondly, the Muslim companies should become self-sufficient in producing goods equal to the products of Western companies. Economic boycott of the West is not possible unless economic self-sufficiency is attained and substitute products are brought out. You see that wealth is scattered all across the Muslim World but not a single TV channel has been acquired which can preach Islamic injunctions according to modern requirements and attain an international influence. Muslim traders and philanthropists should make it a point that if the weapon of public opinion is to be used, it is to be kept in the hand. Today's world is of public opinion and the fates of nations are determined through its pressure. Once the tools for building public opinion are obtained, everything that you asked for can be done.

UMMAT:
The entire propaganda about your struggle has so far been made by the Western media. But no information is being received from your sources about the network of Al-Qa'idah and its jihadi successes. Would you comment?

USAMA BIN LADEN:
In fact, the Western media is left with nothing else. It has no other theme to survive for a long time. Then we have many other things to do. The struggle for jihad and the successes are for the sake of Allah and not to annoy His bondsmen. Our silence is our real propaganda. Rejections, explanations, or corrigendum only waste your time and through them, the enemy wants you to engage in things which are not of use to you. These things are pulling you away from your cause. The Western media is unleashing such a baseless propaganda, which makes us surprise but it reflects on what is in their hearts and gradually they themselves become captive of this propaganda. They become afraid of it and begin to cause harm to themselves. Terror is the most dreaded weapon in modern age and the Western media is mercilessly using it against its own people. It can add fear and helplessness in the psyche of the people of Europe and the United States. It means that what the enemies of the United States cannot do, its media is doing that. You can understand as to what will be the performance of the nation in a war, which suffers from fear and helplessness.

UMMAT:
What will be the impact of the freeze of Al-Qa'idah accounts by the U.S.?

USAMA BIN LADEN:
God opens up ways for those who work for Him. Freezing of accounts will not make any difference for Al-Qa'idah or other jihad groups. With the grace of Allah, Al-Qa'idah has more than three alternative financial systems, which are all separate and totally independent from each other. This system is operating under the patronage of those who love jihad. What to say of the United States, even the combined world cannot budge these people from their path. These people are not in hundreds but in thousands and millions. Al-Qa'idah comprises of such modern educated youths who are aware of the cracks inside the Western financial system as they are aware of the lines in their hands. These are the very flaws of the Western fiscal system, which are becoming a noose for it and this system could not recuperate in spite of the passage of so many days.

UMMAT:
Are there other safe areas other than Afghanistan, where you can continue jihad?

USAMA BIN LADEN:
There are areas in all parts of the world where strong jihadi forces are present, from Indonesia to Algeria, from Kabul to Chechnya, from Bosnia to Sudan, and from Burma to Kashmir. Then it is not the problem of my person. I am a helpless fellowman of God, constantly in the fear of my accountability before God. It is not the question of Usama but of Islam and, in Islam too, of jihad. Thanks to God, those waging a jihad can walk today with their heads raised. Jihad was still present when there was no Usama and it will remain as such even when Usama is no longer there. Allah opens up ways and creates loves in the hearts of people for those who walk on the path of Allah with their lives, property and children. Believe it, through jihad, a man gets everything he desires. And the biggest desire of a Muslim is the life after death. Martyrdom is the shortest way of attaining an eternal life.

UMMAT:
What do you say about the Pakistan Government policy on Afghanistan attack?

USAMA BIN LADEN:
We are thankful to the Momin and valiant people of Pakistan who erected a blockade in front of the evil forces and stood in the first file of battle. Pakistan is a great hope for the Islamic brotherhood. Its people are awakened, organized and rich in the spirit of faith. They backed Afghanistan in its war against the Soviet Union and extended every help to the mojahedeen (freedom fighters) and the Afghan people. Then these are very Pakistanis who are standing shoulder by shoulder with the Taleban. If such people emerge in just two countries, the domination of the West will diminish in a matter of days. Our hearts beat with Pakistan and, God forbid, if a difficult time comes we will protect it with our blood. Pakistan is sacred for us like a place of worship. We are the people of jihad and fighting for the defense of Pakistan is the best of all jihads to us. It does not matter for us as to who reforms Pakistan. The important thing is that the spirit of jihad is alive and stronger in the hearts of the Pakistani people.

End of Interview
http://web.archive.org/web/200805160...view_ummat.htm
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MartyrX
11-06-2011, 01:12 AM
While we might pay taxes, we don't really have any say in what happens. Obama was supposed to be different, but he was just the same as all the others. Big Business is in control now.
Reply

Abz2000
11-06-2011, 03:19 AM
The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.
Albert Einstein



this may shed some light on the issue:



Israel is the largest cumulative recipient of U.S. foreign assistance since World War II

After years of negotiation, the United States and Israel announced in August 2010 that Israel will
purchase 20 F-35s at a cost of $2.75 billion,

which will be paid for entirely using FMF (foreign military funding) grants.

The first planes are scheduled to be delivered in 2015,

...................understand this....................

though the deal is still pending final approval by the Israeli cabinet.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf

Prior to the agreement, both sides had negotiated over the level of
Israeli customization of the F-35.


Tomahawk (missile)

Long-range, all-weather, subsoniccruise missile

United States
1983-present
General Dynamics (initially)
Raytheon/McDonnell Douglas
Unit cost

US$
569,000 (1999)[1]AGM-109H/L version

to $1.45 million Tactic version (2011)[2]
2,900 lb (1,300 kg), 3,500 lb (1,600 kg) with booster
Without booster: 18 ft 3 in (5.56 m)With booster: 20 ft 6 in (6.25 m)
20.4 in (0.52 m)



In 2011, it was estimated that a single Tomahawk cruise missile costs US$830,000)

In a cruise missile, the
warhead is integrated into the vehicle
and the vehicle is always sacrificed in the mission.

Attack on Libya: US fires more than 110 Tomahawk missiles
PTI Mar 20, 2011, 05.23am IST
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truthseeker63
11-06-2011, 02:14 PM
He implies that a bourgeois democracy is democratic in my view his logic makes no sense.
Reply

truthseeker63
11-06-2011, 09:45 PM
I just can't agree with him on this issue.
Reply

Abz2000
11-07-2011, 12:37 AM
^ think about all the comments you see on youtube and even coming out of hillary clinton on "nuking iran" based on total fabricated lies.
simply because they don't agree with the leader.
think about the million+ dead in Iraq "because we had to remove saddam"
and the so far 30,000 dead in libya "because Gaddafi was bad".
what if laden said "because hillary is bad"?

and think who the real perpetrators are - taking this comment into consideration:
I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States.
As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act.
Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people.
Such a practice is forbidden even in the course of a battle.
It is the United States, which is perpetrating every maltreatment on women, children and common people of other faiths, particularly the followers of Islam.


(they'd claimed it was "if iran attacked", now that they haven't been able to start a war via provocation - they want to attack anyway.

Terrorism is the systematic use of terror, especially as a means of coercion.
Common definitions of terrorism refer only to those violent acts which are
intended to create fear (terror), are perpetrated for a religious, political or ideological goal,
and deliberately target or disregard the safety of
non-combatants (civilians).

also research hiroshima and nagasaki.....................
Reply

جوري
11-07-2011, 12:50 AM
^^ that biatch is deranged
Reply

Abz2000
11-07-2011, 05:50 PM
it's a bit ironic though - it's like the owners of a company saying: don't blame us - it's all the manager and administration's fault,
you ask: why not get a new one who won't act like this?
they say: he has all the security guards in his hands and they have guns.
but you're the ones who pay their wages.
yes - but he makes us.

are you hostages?

no - we are free.


None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe





Reply

NobleMuslimUK
11-09-2011, 07:39 AM
Asalaam walaikum.
Come on brothers and sisters, we all know Osama didnt do 9/11 to start with it was the jews and the sellout americans working with them. As we know the american government is infested and run by the parisitic jew. Pakistans goverment is a zionist puppet, because pakistan is run by criminals, the state media has a tight leash on them when it comes to political issues.
When you apply for citizenship or a visa for a western country, in a way its an agreement a covenant you will not harm other people of that nation.
Reply

truthseeker63
11-13-2011, 07:33 PM
I am sorry if I badmouthed Bin Laden because we must not forget that history did not began on 911 while I am an American Citizen I believe that people die in war asking if 911 was right is like asking if it was right for Britain to bomb Germany's Cities and Towns during World War 2.

Text: Bin Laden's statement

When people at the ends of the earth, Japan, were killed by their hundreds of thousands, young and old, it was not considered a war crime, it is something that has justification.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001...an.terrorism15
Reply

truthseeker63
11-13-2011, 07:36 PM
I am not a 911 truther in part because the idea that 911 was an inside job covers up the real reason why America was attacked because of us foreign policy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign..._United_States
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truthseeker63
11-13-2011, 07:37 PM
Im sure that on 911 that there were US Soldiers who died maybe Im wrong ?
Reply

NobleMuslimUK
11-14-2011, 10:48 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by truthseeker63
I am not a 911 truther in part because the idea that 911 was an inside job covers up the real reason why America was attacked because of us foreign policy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign..._United_States
I can see that the foreign policy is a plausible story, and of course theres a lot of anger towards the US, for supporting israhell. I cant see muslims blowing up two towers benefitting the muslims at all, instead it has benefited the jews and their henchmen, given them a free pass to go round invading countries.
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truthseeker63
11-14-2011, 07:26 PM
I have no idea who did 911 Im still researching this I don't think 911 was right but I understand the Muslim anger towards the U.S.A.
Reply

Abz2000
11-14-2011, 11:52 PM
if one has not researched extensively into what happened on that day - it is easy to understand how they find it difficult to believe it was an inside job.
however it is more than easy to prove a thousand times over beyond any reasonable doubt that they lied about the events from start to finish, and have refused to answer basic questions on why they lied,
pm me if you need more info,
peace
Reply

ariginality
11-15-2011, 01:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by abz2000
it's a bit ironic though - it's like the owners of a company saying: don't blame us - it's all the manager and administration's fault,
you ask: why not get a new one who won't act like this?
they say: he has all the security guards in his hands and they have guns.
but you're the ones who pay their wages.
yes - but he makes us.

are you hostages?

no - we are free.
It's good to know that you are the head lawmaker in the U.K. or are you just a taxpayer? As Blair was called "Bush's poodle," you must've been pulling the strings to make sure he wasn't re-elected. Just because we live in America doesn't mean we have a lot of choice as individuals. I didn't vote to pay taxes (give me back my money IRS!). I didn't vote to aid Israel or invade Iraq. It's more like we get to choose between 2 heads of the same devil: republican or democrats...pick your poison:exhausted

Danger By Amir Sulaiman
I am not angry I am anger
I am not dangerous I am danger
I am abominable stress, illiotic relentless.
I’m a breath of vengeance. I’m a death sentence.
I’m forsaken repentance to the beast and his hench men.
Armed forces and police men that survived of oils and prisons until their cup runith over with lost souls.
That wear over sized caps like blind folds,
shiny necklaces like lasso’s
dragging them into black holes.
And I may have to holla at Fidel Castro
to get my other brothers outta Guantanamo.

And the innocents on death row
is probably in the same proportion as the criminals in black robes that
smack gavels that
smash homes that
smack gavels that
crack domes

Justice is somewhere between reading sad poems
and 40 ounces of gasoline crashing through windows
Justice is between plans and action
between writing letters to Congressmen and clapping the captain
between raising legal defense funds
and putting a gun on the bailiff and taking the judge captive
it is between prayer and fasting
between burning and blasting
Freedom is between the mind and the soul
it is between the lock and the load
between the zeal of the young and the patience of the old
Freedom is between the finger and the trigger
it is between the page and the pen
between the grenade and the pin
between righteous anger and keeping one in the chamber
So what can they do with a cat with a heart like Turner,
a mind like Douglas, a mouth like Malcolm, and a voice like Chris?

And that is why I am not dangerous I am danger
I am not angry I am anger
I am abominable stress, illiotic relentless
I’m a breath of vengeance. I’m a death sentence.
I’m forsaken repentance to the beast in his hench men.
Armed forces and police men
I will slice his belly open and
free
the souls of the Navajo
the souls of the Iroquois
the souls of the Ibo
the souls of the Scottsboro boys
the souls of great Black leaders
the souls of Kandahar and Baghdad
I burn my white and raise my black flag
to free the souls of the great black leaders
the souls in Attica
the piece of solace on the prison floor

Until then I am not dangerous I am danger
I am not angry I am anger
I am abominable stress, illiotic relentless
I’m a breath of vengeance. I’m a death sentence.
I’m forsaken repentance to the beast in his hench men
Politicians and big business men


I’m a teenage Palestinian opening fire at an Israeli check point,
point blank
checkmate
now what!

I am an inmate short shanked to the c-o
Earlobe to earlobe
Cut short
Case closed
Now what

I am Sitting Bull with Coronal Custard’s scalp in my hands.
I am Senkay with a slave trader’s blood in my hands.
I am Jonathan Jackson handing a gun to my man.
I am David with a sling shot and a rock.
And if David lived today it would be a Molotov cocktail and a glock.
So I say down with Goliath
I say down with Goliath.

But we must learn, know, write, read,
We must kick, bite, yell, scream
We must pray, fast, live, dream,
Fight, kill, and die free.
Reply

Iconodule
11-15-2011, 01:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by abz2000
if one has not researched extensively into what happened on that day - it is easy to understand how they find it difficult to believe it was an inside job.
however it is more than easy to prove a thousand times over beyond any reasonable doubt that they lied about the events from start to finish, and have refused to answer basic questions on why they lied,
pm me if you need more info,
peace
So, your basic attitude is, "Bin Laden didn't do it, but those people deserved it anyway."
Reply

Abz2000
11-15-2011, 03:35 PM
No, it is unlawful to target innocent people,
But mentioning it provokes thought and gives people a chance to reflect on their own stance on the illegal wars.
They see how others may feel,
And also how an attacked people may feel,
It's not a justification, it's a reminder to those who falsely believe they are free, and delude themselves into thinking their leaders are benign, the person above you just admitted he lives under fascist rule
. Just because we live in America doesn't mean we have a lot of choice as individuals. I didn't vote to pay taxes (give me back my money IRS!). I didn't vote to aid Israel or invade Iraq. It's more like we get to choose between 2 heads of the same devil: republican or democrats...pick your poison
It's the response I get on other forums too, then the comments have good quality rather than delusion afterwards
and he is wrong on both counts as I haven't paid,
Reply

Iconodule
11-15-2011, 05:03 PM
Don't get me wrong- whenever someone asks "Why do they hate us so much?" I can rattle off a pretty long list. I am deeply critical of US foreign policy- in fact I sometimes shock people by my lack of patriotism. It's not that I hate the country but I would like to see the US's global influence decline, hopefully in a peaceful way. Very few Americans seem able to break out of a nationalist mentality. Probably the scariest thing, for me, after 9/11 was watching seemingly reasonable people become warmongers, racists, etc.

Bin Laden's logic does not make sense.

The US is not really as democratic as it claims. Neither of the viable political parties represent a significant difference in foreign policy. That leaves us with choosing the "lesser evil," voting for a third party (which goes nowhere) or abstaining from the election process altogether. All of which are pretty ineffectual. I suppose we could withhold taxes but a handful of people doing that accomplishes nothing and is more trouble than it's worth. How about a mass movement? Trust me, it's been tried, it's being tried, but the capitalist elite are established masters of dividing and co-opting ostensibly radical movements. Revolutionaries who remain "pure" are confined to tiny irrelevant subcultures (I can speak from personal experience here).

Pray for the world, do good to people you meet, do the little you can to make things better- that's really all that can be expected.
Reply

Abz2000
11-15-2011, 05:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Iconodule
I am deeply critical of US foreign policy- in fact I sometimes shock people by my lack of patriotism.
it's not lack of patriotism - patriotism is to your people and often motherland - not to criminals who have usurped offices of administration.


“Dissent is the highest form of patriotism.”
Howard zinn
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truthseeker63
11-15-2011, 07:02 PM
Did Muslims die on 911 too ?
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Ramadhan
11-15-2011, 10:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by truthseeker63
Did Muslims die on 911 too ?
yes.

12 chrs.
Reply

GuestFellow
11-20-2011, 09:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by NobleMuslimUK
Asalaam walaikum.
Come on brothers and sisters, we all know Osama didnt do 9/11 to start with it was the jews and the sellout americans working with them.
Walikaum Salaam,

I'm aware that there is no evidence that links Osama to 9/11. No one truly knows who was involved in 9/11. It is just speculation.
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Abz2000
11-20-2011, 11:36 PM
but as a previous law student, you would know that someone who continuously lies about the facts would be the stronger suspect.
the events that took place on that day were IMPOSSIBLE - had cheney not taken control of norad and caused them to stand down.
if one plane switches off it's transponder and refuses to reply, they get surrounded by fighter jets and are forced to land.
on this occasion, one after another after another are switching off their transponders, refusing to answer the radio, and heading towards high priority landmarks, and then hitting one after another with no interception.

the plane is 50...30...10 miles out, mr vice president "do the orders still stand?"
"of course the orders still stand - have you heard anything to the contrary?"
.............then the plane hits

is that a shoot down order or a stand down order???

transport secretary norman mineta:


“If our government had merely [done] nothing, and I say that as an old interceptor pilot -
I know the drill, I know what it takes, I know how long it takes, I know what the procedures are,
I know what they were, and I know what they’ve changed them to-
if our government had merely done nothing, and allowed normal procedures to happen on that morning of 9/11,
the Twin Towers would still be standing and thousands of dead Americans would still be alive.
[T]hat is treason!“

(Col. Robert Bowman)
Director of the U.S. “Star Wars” space defense program in both Republican and Democratic administrations,
who was a senior air force colonel who flew 101 combat missions .
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Galaxy
11-21-2011, 12:57 AM
Masha Allaah abz2000 you seem to know a lot about this subject. I have always been confused about 9/11 and who was behind it.
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Abz2000
11-21-2011, 01:28 AM
just consider - could bin laden do this from a cave?


was thst a building collapse?

or a building exploding in every direction?

and yes - those big fragments - including at " 2 oclock " fell through the air - but turned into dust before they hit the floor

could it be done without explosives?



check these out sis:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVCDpL4Ax7I
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GuestFellow
11-21-2011, 09:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
but as a previous law student, you would know that someone who continuously lies about the facts would be the stronger suspect.
Salaam,

Exactly. They are suspects. So there are still innocent until proven guilty. These are accusations and need to be addressed in court. Keep in mind, I don't believe the official story of 9/11. The official story is itself a conspiracy theory.
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Abz2000
11-22-2011, 01:49 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
Exactly. They are suspects. So there are still innocent until proven guilty. These are accusations and need to be addressed in court.

proven guilty? they refuse to speak about it - and even refuse to speak to the comission they themselves set up unless it's not under oath and behind closed doors - with no minutes available even to the victims' families.
- and when they do speak publicly about it - they end up getting caught lying:





for him to have seen the footage of the first plane on a tv before going into the classroom - it would have to have been a live private broadcast,
and any pr firm could tell you that in the classroom peacefully teaching children would be the best place to be at the time.
it put's him in a position of cute cuddly victim who had to go to war for the country and the kiddies.







these doj and fema instruction book covers from as early as 1997 say a lot.

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GuestFellow
11-23-2011, 06:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
proven guilty? they refuse to speak about it - and even refuse to speak to the comission they themselves set up unless it's not under oath and behind closed doors - with no minutes available even to the victims' families.
Salaam,

It means they have something to hide. This does not necessarily mean they were behind 9/11.

- and when they do speak publicly about it - they end up getting caught lying:


Yes, but this is best presented in court.
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Nate
11-23-2011, 06:39 PM
our government has always did false flag attacks to get us into wars, there is many times in history it has happened, they know how it works and they did a good job on 9/11 they started the whole patriotic junk after and it hypnotized the masses, and gave them a blank check to make war for no reason all over the world, we are fighting a invisible enemy, and the more we invade other the more we get attacked, OBL was a known CIA asset, I actually did a report on the guy in high school well before 9/11 he was better known as the The Prince back then, I think they just paid him to be a fall guy, but died shortly after 9/11

There are to many questions, I have just learned to not trust anyone in the public eye, and less of those who are not ;D
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GuestFellow
11-23-2011, 07:51 PM
^ Have you heard of Operation Northwoods?
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truthseeker63
11-30-2011, 02:54 AM
Yes I know about Northwoods.
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truthseeker63
11-30-2011, 02:55 AM
Im not saying 911 was a good thing Im saying blame the U.S.A. and Israel and the CIA/Mossad for the attacks.
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truthseeker63
11-30-2011, 03:09 AM
Im not saying 911 was good it is possible for 911 to be an inside job.
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truthseeker63
11-30-2011, 03:21 AM
I have also heard that the Mossad has done many false flags.
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truthseeker63
11-30-2011, 03:22 AM
On the day of the 9-11 attacks, former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was asked what the attacks would mean for US-Israeli relations. His quick reply was: "It's very good…….Well, it's not good, but it will generate immediate sympathy (for Israel)"

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHART...eisraelis.html
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ariginality
11-30-2011, 12:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
. Just because we live in America doesn't mean we have a lot of choice as individuals. I didn't vote to pay taxes (give me back my money IRS!). I didn't vote to aid Israel or invade Iraq. It's more like we get to choose between 2 heads of the same devil: republican or democrats...pick your poison
It's the response I get on other forums too, then the comments have good quality rather than delusion afterwards
and he is wrong on both counts as I haven't paid,
You haven't paid taxes in the state in which you reside? What response have you gotten on other forums that you still aren't getting right? Which part is delusion? I said way more than 2 things in my statement so which accounts am I wrong on? Your rather vague, please try responding with substance. Salaam
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