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truthseeker63
11-20-2011, 04:52 AM
Can a two state solution work for Israel and Palestine why or why not ? My view is that it can never work because there is always a chance of war happening between the two states and a chance of the Israelis occupying the West Bank and the Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-state_solution
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Novice
11-20-2011, 01:04 PM
There are two other courses of actions the Palestinians can take:

1) Destroy the state of Israel (which they have every right to do).
2) A one state solution.

I think the two state solution is the only practical and workable approach.
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SyrianFellow
11-20-2011, 09:20 PM
Originally Posted by Novice
There are two other courses of actions the Palestinians can take:

1) Destroy the state of Israel (which they have every right to do).
2) A one state solution.

I think the two state solution is the only practical and workable approach.
I agree, though I don't see any hints of when it will proceed on considering a two state solution. They always have headlines of one party declining a meeting or whatnot. The key solution would be for the US not to back up Israel and let the Arab League deal with them, if they'll bother doing anything ... just a thought :$.
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Eric H
11-20-2011, 09:30 PM
Greetings and peace be with you truthseeker63;

People in power make the rules, the Israelis seem to want all the land on their terms, and sadly the Palestinians have very little power to negotiate with.

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people

Eric
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جوري
11-20-2011, 10:02 PM
Israel has no desire except to kill or displace every Palestinian, excavate beneath al aqsa and build their anti-christ third temple. Please don't be taken by the words that they say although they don't have to hide anymore and never have.

There's one solution and it will come soon insha'Allah with victory to Muslims. There's no room for criminals in any society let alone an entire state dedicated to them!
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truthseeker63
11-20-2011, 10:41 PM
In my view Israel has no right to exist the land is all Palestine.
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truthseeker63
11-20-2011, 10:44 PM
Shah of Iran & Mike Wallace on the Jewish Lobby - 35 Yrs ago

Uploaded by johnnybanky on Jun 23, 2008
Mike Wallace seemed to be in denial of the bias of the Jewish controlled media in the US towards the Israel's agenda 35 years ago! He became part of it and cut down Ahmadi-Nejad's interview to win the Emmy!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kySR3fpa5s

I agree with the Shah.
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truthseeker63
11-20-2011, 10:50 PM
Mohammad Reza Pahlavi
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mohammad Rezā Shāh Pahlavi, Shah of Iran, Shah of Persia (Persian: محمدرضا شاه پهلوی ; [mohæmˈmæd reˈzɒː ˈʃɒːhe pæhlæˈviː]; 26 October 1919 – 27 July 1980), ruled Iran from 16 September 1941 until his overthrow by the Iranian Revolution on 11 February 1979. He was the second and last monarch of the House of Pahlavi of the Iranian monarchy. Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi held several titles: His Imperial Majesty, Shahanshah (King of Kings,[1] Emperor), Aryamehr (Light of the Aryans) and Bozorg Arteshtārān (Head of the Warriors,[2] Persian: بزرگ ارتشتاران).
Mohammad Reza Shah came to power during World War II after an Anglo-Soviet invasion forced the abdication of his father Reza Shah. During his reign, the Iranian oil industry was nationalized under Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh, and Iran marked the anniversary of 2,500 years of continuous monarchy since the founding of the Persian Empire by Cyrus the Great. The Shah's White Revolution, a series of economic and social reforms intended to transform Iran into a global power, succeeded in modernizing the nation, nationalizing many natural resources, and extending suffrage to women.
A secular Muslim himself, the Shah gradually lost support from the Shi'a clergy of Iran, particularly due to his strong policy of modernization, secularization, conflict with the traditional class of merchants known as bazaari, and recognition of Israel. Various additional controversial policies were enacted, including the banning of the communist Tudeh Party, and a general suppression of political dissent by Iran's intelligence agency, SAVAK. Amnesty International reported that in 1978 Iran had as many as 2,200 political prisoners, a number which multiplied rapidly as a result of the revolution.[citation needed]
Several other factors contributed to strong opposition to the Shah among certain groups within Iran, the most notable of which were the U.S. and UK backed coup d'état against Mosaddegh in 1953, clashes with Islamists, and increased communist activity. By 1979, political unrest had transformed into a revolution which, on 16 January, forced the Shah to leave Iran. Soon thereafter, the Iranian monarchy was formally abolished, and Iran was declared an Islamic republic. Facing likely execution should he return to Iran, he died in exile in Egypt, whose President, Anwar Sadat, had granted him asylum.
In the 1990s and the decade following 2000, the Shah's reputation has staged something of a revival, with many Iranians looking back on his era as a time when Iran was more prosperous[3][4] and the government less oppressive.[5] Journalist Afshin Molavi reports even members of the uneducated poor - traditionally core supporters of the revolution that overthrew the Shah - making remarks such as 'God bless the Shah's soul, the economy was better then;' and finds that "books about the former Shah (even censored ones) sell briskly," while "books of the Rightly Guided Path sit idle."[6]

Later years

Foreign relations
The Shah of Iran was the first Muslim leader to recognize the State of Israel, although when interviewed on CBS 60 Minutes by reporter Mike Wallace, he criticized American Jews for their presumed control over US media and finance.[31]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Reza_Pahlavi





Was the Shah a Western/American/Israeli Puppet ?
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Abz2000
11-20-2011, 11:03 PM

as long as palestine is free from controls imposed by the zionists, then a two state solution seems the best option.
but they claim to want "peace talks" before that happens, i.e a totally servile palestine, and they seem to be waiting for things to descend into chaos so they can pull out,
consider this -

it's a bit long - but you may be amazed if you read it:

PM welcome? New Jewish neighborhood installed in east J'lem
New Jewish neighborhood is inaugurated in Ras al-Amud just as Netanyahu returns from US.
'Israel without Jerusalem is like a body without a soul,' says Minister Erdan.
Leftist activist: This provocation sends a problematic message.


Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu landed at Ben Gurion Airport Wednesday, after concluding his visit to the United States, during which he spoke before Congress.
"There is strong American support for our principles and what we want," he told reporters at the airport.


Israeli government Ministers have inaugurated a new Jewish only settlement in East Jerusalem. A ceremony including Jerusalem mayor Mayor Nir Barkat and Environmental Protection Minister Gilad Erdan officially opened the Ma'aleh Zeitim settlement, in East Jerusalem's Ras al-Amud neighbourhood.
Speeches during the ceremony focussed on maintaining Jerusalem as an undivided whole under Israeli control.
Jerusalem Mayor Nir Barkat commented that
"Israel without Jerusalem or Zionism without Zion are like a body without a soul.
We, as the government of Israel, are committed to strengthening Jerusalem and keeping it whole and united,
and continuing to build in all parts of the city."


1Moreover the spirit lifted me up, and brought me unto the east gate of the LORD'S house, which looketh eastward: and behold at the door of the gate five and twenty men; among whom I saw Jaazaniah the son of Azur, and Pelatiah the son of Benaiah, princes of the people.
2Then said he unto me, Son of man, these are the men that devise mischief, and give wicked counsel in this city:
3Which say, It is not near; let us build houses: this city is the caldron, and we be the flesh.
4Therefore prophesy against them, prophesy, O son of man.
5And the Spirit of the LORD fell upon me, and said unto me, Speak; Thus saith the LORD; Thus have ye said, O house of Israel:
for I know the things that come into your mind, every one of them.
6Ye have multiplied your slain in this city, and ye have filled the streets thereof with the slain.
7Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Your slain whom ye have laid in the midst of it, they are the flesh, and this city is the caldron:
but I will bring you forth out of the midst of it. 8Ye have feared the sword; and I will bring a sword upon you, saith the Lord GOD.
9And I will bring you out of the midst thereof, and deliver you into the hands of strangers, and will execute judgments among you.
10Ye shall fall by the sword; I will judge you in the border of Israel; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
11This city shall not be your caldron, neither shall ye be the flesh in the midst thereof; but I will judge you in the border of Israel:
12And ye shall know that I am the LORD: for ye have not walked in my statutes, neither executed my judgments, but have done after the manners of the heathen that are round about you.
Ezekiel 11

Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.
matthew 21:43-46


And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy;
and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God.
Hosea 2:23


Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child:
for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the LORD.
2Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;

3For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.

4Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame:
for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more.

5For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

6For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God.

7For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee.

8In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer.
Isaiah 54
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Eric H
11-21-2011, 03:21 AM
Greetings and peace be with you Abz2000;

Jerusalem Mayor Nir Barkat commented that
"Israel without Jerusalem or Zionism without Zion are like a body without a soul.
We, as the government of Israel, are committed to strengthening Jerusalem and keeping it whole and united,
and continuing to build in all parts of the city."
The Israeli Nation are the chosen people of God, but God scattered the tribes of Israel because they would not follow his commands, there are many passages in Jewish scriptures when God turns his anger against Israel.

Here are a few passages from the Old Testament in the Bible, which is Jewish scripture, it talks about how Jews should treat aliens, or in today’s language, foreigners living in Israel.

Leviticus 24
You are to have the same law for the alien and the native-born. I am the LORD your God.

Leviticus 19
33 " 'When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him. 34 The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

Exodus 12:49
The same law applies to the native-born and to the alien living among you."

Exodus 22:21
"Do not mistreat an alien or oppress him, for you were aliens in Egypt.

Leviticus 19:10
Do not go over your vineyard a second time or pick up the grapes that have fallen. Leave them for the poor and the alien. I am the LORD your God.

Ezekiel 47
21 “You are to distribute this land among yourselves according to the tribes of Israel. 22 You are to allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the foreigners residing among you and who have children. You are to consider them as native-born Israelites; along with you they are to be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel. 23 In whatever tribe a foreigner resides, there you are to give them their inheritance,” declares the Sovereign LORD.

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people

Eric
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Abz2000
11-21-2011, 05:12 AM
Unto a stranger thou mayest lend upon usury; but unto thy brother thou shalt not lend upon usury:
that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all that thou settest thine hand to in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
Deuteronomy 23:20

usury must be a bad thing, and it seems as if someone with a vested interest in lending money through usury made it ok to outsource the vile exploitative practice to the "aliens".
is that original or did they change it?

i have noticed in many versions where they just wrote israel or zion instead of "them" or "my people".

the following verse is regarding a place called "baca", where it speaks of wells and pilgrimage and a sanctuary where swallows build nests where the house of the lord is located.
all of which happens in Makkah, and the name of Makkah is mentioned in the Quran as Bakka

New International Version (©1984)
Blessed are those whose strength is in you, who have set their hearts on pilgrimage.
New Living Translation (©2007)
What joy for those whose strength comes from the LORD, who have set their minds on a pilgrimage to Jerusalem.
English Standard Version (©2001)
Blessed are those whose strength is in you, in whose heart are the highways to Zion.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
How blessed is the man whose strength is in You, In whose heart are the highways to Zion!
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Blessed is the man whose strength is in thee; in whose heart are the ways of them.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
Blessed is the son of man whose helper you are, and in whose heart are your ways!
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Blessed are those who find strength in you. Their hearts are on the road [that leads to you].
King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
Blessed is the man whose strength is in you; in whose heart are the ways to them
.American King James Version
Blessed is the man whose strength is in you; in whose heart are the ways of them.
American Standard Version
Blessed is the man whose strength is in thee; In whose heart are the highways to Zion .
Bible in Basic English
Happy is the man whose strength is in you; in whose heart are the highways to Zion.
Douay-Rheims Bible
Blessed is the man whose help is from thee: in his heart he hath disposed to ascend by steps,
Darby Bible Translation
Blessed is the man whose strength is in thee, they, in whose heart are the highways.
English Revised Version
Blessed is the man whose strength is in thee; in whose heart are the highways to Zion.
Webster's Bible Translation
Blessed is the man whose strength is in thee; in whose heart are the ways of them.
World English Bible
Blessed are those whose strength is in you; who have set their hearts on a pilgrimage.
Young's Literal Translation
O the happiness of a man whose strength is in Thee, Highways are in their heart.

All the new american and new english ones along with those compiled by controversial writers use the word zion or jerusalem, while the older ones don't.

But because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard;
they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them,
nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few - ever bent on (new) deceits:
but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for Allah loveth those who are kind.
Quran 5:13

160. For the iniquity of the Jews We made unlawful for them certain (foods) good and wholesome which had been lawful for them;- in that they hindered many from Allah.s Way;-
161. That they took usury, though they were forbidden; and that they devoured men's substance wrongfully;- we have prepared for those among them who reject faith a grievous punishment.
162. But those among them who are well-grounded in knowledge, and the believers, believe in what hath been revealed to thee and what was revealed before thee: And (especially) those who establish regular prayer and practise regular charity and believe in Allah and in the Last Day: To them shall We soon give a great reward.

Originally Posted by Eric H
The Israeli Nation are the chosen people of God, but God scattered the tribes of Israel because they would not follow his commands, there are many passages in Jewish scriptures when God turns his anger against Israel.
Different communities of Jews around the world share more than just religious or cultural practices — they also have strong genetic commonalities, according to the largest genetic analysis of Jewish people to date.
But the study also found strong genetic ties to non-Jewish groups, with the closest genetic neighbours on the European side being Italians, and on the Middle Eastern side the Druze, Bedouin and Palestinians.
the palestinians have more abrahamic blood than most of the fake jews who are jew neither by blood - nor by practice, most of those zionists are ashkenazis and khazars, various dna tests have been carried out finding that the palestinians are actual blood relatives and descendants of the semitic populations, and it is they who are scattered among the nations while now the zionist leaders and their backers are attempting to prevent them from being a nation. the zionists where installed there by the british and U.S governments and are still propped up by them.
and neither these zionists nor their backers forbid sodomy, prostitution, adultery, lewdness, usury, theft - all of which are forbidden in the scriptures - and they even promote it and call themselves "progressive".
while the palestinians are called "fundamentalists and "extremists" for upholding these values.

Aug. 03, 2011. The wife requested that his claim be rejected because there did not exist under Israeli law a cause of action based on adultery.
The court held that adultery may be a ground for a tort action as well as for an action based on breach of contract. Although Israel's Civil Wrongs Ordinance (New Version), as amended, does not contain any specific tort based on adultery, the court held that adultery might constitute negligence in some circumstances, in accordance with section 35 of the Ordinance. The court found that adultery might also be recognized as a breach of a contractual obligation that is inferred from a marriage; specifically, that of respecting mutual loyalty and the commitment not to engage in adultery.The court ruling in this case reflects a new approach in Israel's judicial system.
we can see clearly here that the scripture is not referring to these people but to those who obey Him.

who's trying to prevent who from being a nation and who are those who permit blasphemy against God in their lands?

The Palestinian leader is expected to hand over a letter asking for Palestine to join the UN as a state shortly before he addresses the general assembly to plead the case for admission.
The Israeli prime minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, is scheduled to speak shortly afterwards. He is likely to denounce the Palestinian move as destabilising and a threat to the peace process – even though that is largely dormant.

(Reuters) - The Palestinian application for membership in the United Nations appears headed for rejection after the Palestinians failed to muster sufficient support in the U.N. Security Council.


Keep not thou silence, O God: hold not thy peace, and be not still, O God.
2For, lo, thine enemies make a tumult: and they that hate thee have lifted up the head.
3They have taken crafty counsel against thy people, and consulted against thy hidden ones.
4They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance.
5For they have consulted together with one consent: they are confederate against thee:
Psalm 83:4

the palestinians say the rule is God's, while the zionists, the americans and the british along with the U.N say the rule is of their own making.
the palestinians are called "backwards", "uncivilized".
who has more right to my respect?

O Children of Israel! call to mind the special favour which I bestowed upon you, and that I preferred you to all others (for My Message).
123. Then guard yourselves against a-Day when one soul shall not avail another, nor shall compensation be accepted from her nor shall intercession profit her nor shall anyone be helped (from outside).
124. And remember that Abraham was tried by his Lord with certain commands, which he fulfilled:
He said: "I will make thee a leader of the people." He pleaded: "And also from my offspring!"
He answered: "But My Promise is not within the reach of evil-doers."


Quran 2:122-124

but let us not turn this into an off topic debate, my post and references were regarding the settlements and the state with a rebuttal to their comments on legitimacy.
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