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syed1
12-03-2011, 05:40 AM
Salam brother and sister,

I have a Sikh friend whom I have become very close with over the few years... He is a very humble, easy going and friendly dude and we have never got into any altercations over religion. He has always been accepting ( at least on the surface) of Islam and I too have not shown him any disrespect to his religion...

I want to teach him about islam and show him the way, I want to guide him but I don't want to do it in such a way where I come off as a person trying to preach to him or tell him what's right or wrong.

There is a islam conference going on here in December and I want to take him to that, its called Reviving the Islamic Spirit but I am not sure what the best approach is or how to get him to come. I don't want to come of as a person who is trying to convert him, I just want to show him what we believe as oppose to what he believes and make him form his own decision...

What do you guys think the best approach is? My initial plan is to first generate a deeper understand of his religion (sikhism) and then cultivate a better understanding of islam and show him where both intersect and where both differ. I have already come across some rather interesting information about sikhism ( for example, Guru Nank Dev ji claimed that there is one god "ik onkar" or that guru nank was a muslim who and apperantly there is a story of him going to makkah) which I could use to try to show him his own religion and how it might be misinterpreted...

Any ways, what is the best approach? Where can I learn more about Sikhism (proper facts or the majority opinion - I'd hate to make claims about his scripture and then feel stupid if I was wrong) ...

how shall I go about this...

Thanks for your help in advance, Inshallah!
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Abz2000
12-03-2011, 06:30 AM
ask him what the idols have created
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SyrianFellow
12-03-2011, 07:49 AM
Wow this is really close to my situation as well. We have a conference in January about Islam, and I am also trying to bring a friend along. My advice to you is that maybe telling him what the conference is about and that you are going and you want him to come with you. If its a two day conference, like the one I'm trying to bring my friend to tell them they can just go to the first day and see how it goes, if they don't like it they don't have to show up for the next day. And if cost is a factor for your friend just pay for him, it'll be the biggest investment you'll do.:)

And Allah knows best.
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syed1
12-03-2011, 07:40 PM
thanks for your input.. yeah this is actually a 3 day event and I was already planning to get a ticket for him cause I obv. wouldnt want him to pay to come to something that he has no interest in..
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syed1
12-03-2011, 10:40 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
ask him what the idols have created
not sure if you were inferring this, but SIKHS, like muslims believe in One God, they do not worship idols. Hindu's on the other hand worship idols
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Perseveranze
12-03-2011, 11:03 PM
Asalaamu Alaikum,

There is a website dedicated to giving Sikh's Dawah, check it out - http://www.islam-sikhism.info
Reply

'Aleena
12-04-2011, 07:31 AM
Originally Posted by syed1
not sure if you were inferring this, but SIKHS, like muslims believe in One God, they do not worship idols
But they do bow down to their holy book which contains verses of all religious books including The Qur'an. This is what my Sikh friend informed me. When I tried to make her understand, she said, "Well even you people use intermediaries. You Imam, your Quran and Arabic teacher are all intermediaries as they help you to get closer to God"

All I wanted to do was to bang my head.
Reply

syed1
12-05-2011, 04:23 AM
Originally Posted by 'Aleena
his is what my Sikh friend informed me. When I tried to make her understand, she said, "Well even you people use intermediaries. You Imam, your Quran and Arabic teacher are all intermediaries as they help you to get closer to God"
yes, the guru granth sahib ji is their main book and after skimming through it I found many simillarities and it does mention muslims, and the quran as well... what do you mean by "when I tried to make her understand" understand what? and so your saying they pray bow down to there book? hmm didnt know that..
Reply

Abz2000
12-05-2011, 07:17 AM
Wow, thanks for that update, I've known Sikhs since childhood, didn't know they were closer to the truth than others, I really believed they worshipped idols,
Just been reding up on it, although it may not be the truth, it seems like a good moral code.
Reply

'Aleena
12-05-2011, 09:41 AM
Originally Posted by syed1
"when I tried to make her understand" understand what? and so your saying they pray bow down to there book?
Yeah they do. They take the book as an intermediary so I was trying to argue that we do not need an intermediary between us and God.
Reply

Singh123a
07-30-2019, 01:18 AM
Originally Posted by syed1
Salam brother and sister,

I have a Sikh friend whom I have become very close with over the few years... He is a very humble, easy going and friendly dude and we have never got into any altercations over religion. He has always been accepting ( at least on the surface) of Islam and I too have not shown him any disrespect to his religion...

I want to teach him about islam and show him the way, I want to guide him but I don't want to do it in such a way where I come off as a person trying to preach to him or tell him what's right or wrong.

There is a islam conference going on here in December and I want to take him to that, its called Reviving the Islamic Spirit but I am not sure what the best approach is or how to get him to come. I don't want to come of as a person who is trying to convert him, I just want to show him what we believe as oppose to what he believes and make him form his own decision...

What do you guys think the best approach is? My initial plan is to first generate a deeper understand of his religion (sikhism) and then cultivate a better understanding of islam and show him where both intersect and where both differ. I have already come across some rather interesting information about sikhism ( for example, Guru Nank Dev ji claimed that there is one god "ik onkar" or that guru nank was a muslim who and apperantly there is a story of him going to makkah) which I could use to try to show him his own religion and how it might be misinterpreted...

Any ways, what is the best approach? Where can I learn more about Sikhism (proper facts or the majority opinion - I'd hate to make claims about his scripture and then feel stupid if I was wrong) ...

how shall I go about this...

Thanks for your help in advance, Inshallah!

greetings I am Sikh I know this is very old post
Reply

Singh123a
07-30-2019, 02:54 AM
Originally Posted by 'Aleena

Yeah they do. They take the book as an intermediary so I was trying to argue that we do not need an intermediary between us and God.
We sikhs bow to the Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji out of respect because of the belief in one ness of God
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HabibUrrehman
07-30-2019, 03:11 PM
Originally Posted by Singh123a
We sikhs bow to the Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji out of respect because of the belief in one ness of God
Can you share your basic belief system? Seems like you do believe in one God. Is there any Divine guidance in Sikhism? Are there any prophets in Sikhism and do they have any miracles? What is the concept of hereafter in Sikhism? Is there any hell or heaven according to your belief? Where do you drive your morals from?
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Singh123a
07-30-2019, 04:27 PM
The basic belief system is rejection of idol worship, pictures, and rituals. Belief in one god alone who has no shape, no form, no color etc. I believe the best way to learn about Sikhism are two ways and the answers to your question.

1. Download on your iPhone or laptop Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and read it.

2. Go inside a Gurdwara(Sikh temple) and see how the culture is, what is being recited talk with a Granthi.

I downloaded Qu’ran and read it from beginning to end and also read Sahih Bukhari Hadiths and also went to Mosque and learned the prayers just to see how the culture is and what prayers are recited and how to do them - it’s best way to learn about any religion.

- - - Updated - - -

If you desire only to learn you can see and do the Daily Nitnem just to see how it feels, or how it’s done just for learning not convert

- - - Updated - - -

Islam and Sikhism is different though in aspects to belief system
Reply

HabibUrrehman
07-30-2019, 04:33 PM
Originally Posted by Singh123a
The basic belief system is rejection of idol worship, pictures, and rituals. Belief in one god alone who has no shape, no form, no color etc. I believe the best way to learn about Sikhism are two ways and the answers to your question.

1. Download on your iPhone or laptop Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and read it.

2. Go inside a Gurdwara(Sikh temple) and see how the culture is, what is being recited talk with a Granthi.

I downloaded Qu’ran and read it from beginning to end and also read Sahih Bukhari Hadiths and also went to Mosque and learned the prayers just to see how the culture is and what prayers are recited and how to do them - it’s best way to learn about any religion.

- - - Updated - - -

If you desire only to learn you can see and do the Daily Nitnem just to see how it feels, or how it’s done just for learning not convert
Do you believe that there is only one true religion or do you believe that there could be several ways to find God?
If someone is not born as a Sikh, how would you prove that Granth is the Divine message? It could be man made.
Sikhism only started few centuries ago (1500s may be), h
ow can God leave humanity without any Divine guidance for centuries if Sikhism is true religion?
Correct me if I am wrong, Sikhism don't believe in life hereafter. Sikhs don't believe in Hell and Heaven and without this concept, there is no purpose in life.
Reply

Singh123a
07-30-2019, 05:16 PM
Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman
Do you believe that there is only one true religion or do you believe that there could be several ways to find God?
If someone is not born as a Sikh, how would you prove that Granth is the Divine message? It could be man made.
Sikhism only started few centuries ago (1500s may be), h
ow can God leave humanity without any Divine guidance for centuries if Sikhism is true religion?
Correct me if I am wrong, Sikhism don't believe in life hereafter. Sikhs don't believe in Hell and Heaven and without this concept, there is no purpose in life.

When Guru Nanak got revelation his very first words were, “there is no hindu, there is no Muslim”. When a hindu and a Muslim asked which one is on the right path, Guru Nanak replied, “without good deeds and without good karma both will be lost”. As per Sikhism, “God exists from beginning, and now, and will exist eternally” Sikhism rejects science and scientific proves because then that would put God before science to prove, God is experienced through oneself, through praises, singing glories, mediating on him which 100% agrees ok Sufism. All the 10 gurus have several incidents in history, let’s take one and analyze:


Two Muslims came to Guru Nanak and asked him to join with him to offer namaz to God, Guru Nanak agreed and went with them to offer prayer but Guru Nanak totally prayed in opposite direction. The two Muslims asked why didn’t you pray towards God’s house? Guru Nanak replied my gods house is in every direction, to the north, to the east, to the west to the south, everything belongs to him.


The list is long of several incidents it’s best to talk with Granthi.
Reply

HabibUrrehman
07-30-2019, 05:37 PM
Originally Posted by Singh123a
When Guru Nanak got revelation his very first words were, “there is no hindu, there is no Muslim”. When a hindu and a Muslim asked which one is on the right path, Guru Nanak replied, “without good deeds and without good karma both will be lost”. As per Sikhism, “God exists from beginning, and now, and will exist eternally” Sikhism rejects science and scientific proves because then that would put God before science to prove, God is experienced through oneself, through praises, singing glories, mediating on him which 100% agrees ok Sufism. All the 10 gurus have several incidents in history, let’s take one and analyze:


Two Muslims came to Guru Nanak and asked him to join with him to offer namaz to God, Guru Nanak agreed and went with them to offer prayer but Guru Nanak totally prayed in opposite direction. The two Muslims asked why didn’t you pray towards God’s house? Guru Nanak replied my gods house is in every direction, to the north, to the east, to the west to the south, everything belongs to him.


The list is long of several incidents it’s best to talk with Granthi.
That did not answer my questions or may be I failed to understand. Let me ask question one by one.

Do you believe that there is only one true religion or do you believe that there could be several ways to find God?
Reply

Singh123a
07-30-2019, 05:44 PM
Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman
That did not answer my questions or may be I failed to understand. Let me ask question one by one.
Sorry if I wasn’t clear - but it was answered “without good deeds both are lost” let’s take example of what the Guru meant, let’s say a hindu does idol worship but he does good deeds, he feeds the poor, helps the needy he does so many good karma he even saves a life - that person will have good place in hereafter. That question depends on your deeds. Religion or no religion without deeds they would be lost on hereafter. Every religion has parts of truth but eternal truth is one who realizes all is equal. That’s why a verse comes from that one light everything has came so there is no such thing as hindu or Muslim. This is why the word Sikh means to seek the truth. So yes there many ways but depends on factors as well
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HabibUrrehman
07-30-2019, 06:08 PM
Originally Posted by Singh123a
Sorry if I wasn’t clear - but it was answered “without good deeds both are lost” let’s take example of what the Guru meant, let’s say a hindu does idol worship but he does good deeds, he feeds the poor, helps the needy he does so many good karma he even saves a life - that person will have good place in hereafter. That question depends on your deeds. Religion or no religion without deeds they would be lost on hereafter. Every religion has parts of truth but eternal truth is one who realizes all is equal. That’s why a verse comes from that one light everything has came so there is no such thing as hindu or Muslim. This is why the word Sikh means to seek the truth. So yes there many ways but depends on factors as well
Well let's seek the truth then, shall we?

Muslims means submission to God. So Muslims already know what is good and bad and they follow the Divine guidance which differentiates between good and bad. If a Muslim does not do good deeds then he/she is only a Muslim by name not with actions.

You mentioned hereafter? Sikhism does not believe in hell and heaven. So what the point of being good or being bad if there is no hell or heaven?

You said that there is truth is every religion. How one will know which one is truth and which one is not?

There are no multiple ways to salvation. Quran is very clear on that and so do many other religions. I invite you to read the thread below as well for in depth discussion why the true religion can only be one.

https://www.islamicboard.com/general...ml#post3015988

Lastly, let me ask this again. If you are born as a Muslim, how would you be convinced that Sikhism is the right religion?
Reply

Singh123a
07-30-2019, 06:19 PM
Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman
Well let's seek the truth then, shall we?

Muslims means submission to God. So Muslims already know what is good and bad and they follow the Divine guidance which differentiates between good and bad. If a Muslim does not do good deeds then he/she is only a Muslim by name not with actions.

You mentioned hereafter? Sikhism does not believe in hell and heaven. So what the point of being good or being bad if there is no hell or heaven?

You said that there is truth is every religion. How one will know which one is truth and which one is not?

There are no multiple ways to salvation. Quran is very clear on that and so do many other religions. I invite you to read the thread below as well for in depth discussion why the true religion can only be one.

https://www.islamicboard.com/general...ml#post3015988

Lastly, let me ask this again. If you are born as a Muslim, how would you be convinced that Sikhism is the right religion?

As per Sikhism, The thing is is there are good and bad apples in every basket. Let it be Muslim, Sikh, hindu we all still do bad and good regardless. While belief in one god is important many things are taken into consideration think of it as a bad karma weight and good karma weight. Sikhism’s perspective of heaven and hell is different. Let’s take an example. A baby which is born without an arm, that’s karma of past deeds, cycle of reincarnation otherwise what else could be the reason? Test? The new life already lost the test before even beginning to take it. A baby who is deformed can not be a test but actions of previous karma. Sikhism rejects proves when concerning God because God is beyond science. The proof would be realizing him. I will definitely look into the form thanks.
Reply

keiv
07-30-2019, 11:49 PM
Originally Posted by Singh123a
When Guru Nanak got revelation his very first words were, “there is no hindu, there is no Muslim”. When a hindu and a Muslim asked which one is on the right path, Guru Nanak replied, “without good deeds and without good karma both will be lost”. As per Sikhism, “God exists from beginning, and now, and will exist eternally” Sikhism rejects science and scientific proves because then that would put God before science to prove, God is experienced through oneself, through praises, singing glories, mediating on him which 100% agrees ok Sufism. All the 10 gurus have several incidents in history, let’s take one and analyze:


Two Muslims came to Guru Nanak and asked him to join with him to offer namaz to God, Guru Nanak agreed and went with them to offer prayer but Guru Nanak totally prayed in opposite direction. The two Muslims asked why didn’t you pray towards God’s house? Guru Nanak replied my gods house is in every direction, to the north, to the east, to the west to the south, everything belongs to him.


The list is long of several incidents it’s best to talk with Granthi.
Muslims do not believe it to be the literal house of God. We also believe everything belongs to Him. We face the Qibla during praying because it was commanded to us but, it's also unique because all Muslims around the world do it. There is more unity in it. If you go to a congregation and everyone is facing their own direction, it would look unorganized and rather silly to be honest.
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Singh123a
07-31-2019, 12:20 PM
Originally Posted by keiv
Muslims do not believe it to be the literal house of God. We also believe everything belongs to Him. We face the Qibla during praying because it was commanded to us but, it's also unique because all Muslims around the world do it. There is more unity in it. If you go to a congregation and everyone is facing their own direction, it would look unorganized and rather silly to be honest.

Yes, that is the belief system. In Sikhism, God commanded unity for entire humanity let it be hindu, Muslim or anyone. There are difference of belief between Islam and Sikhism.
Reply

keiv
07-31-2019, 02:41 PM
Wouldn’t you consider the guru intentionally praying in the opposite direction to be more rebellious than unifying?
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HabibUrrehman
07-31-2019, 03:17 PM
Originally Posted by Singh123a
As per Sikhism, The thing is is there are good and bad apples in every basket. Let it be Muslim, Sikh, hindu we all still do bad and good regardless. While belief in one god is important many things are taken into consideration think of it as a bad karma weight and good karma weight. Sikhism’s perspective of heaven and hell is different. Let’s take an example. A baby which is born without an arm, that’s karma of past deeds, cycle of reincarnation otherwise what else could be the reason? Test? The new life already lost the test before even beginning to take it. A baby who is deformed can not be a test but actions of previous karma. Sikhism rejects proves when concerning God because God is beyond science. The proof would be realizing him. I will definitely look into the form thanks.
Based on understanding, Sikhism accepts the Hindu belief in karma and reincarnation but preaches a simple way of ending the cycle, by living a disciplined life. Sikhs believe that through the grace of God and by constantly contemplating upon and repeating His name one can be liberated from the cycle of birth and death. Guru Nanak explained to his followers that birth is due to Karma but liberation is due to God’s grace. Guru Nanak taught that salvation does not mean entering paradise after a last judgment, but a union and absorption into God, sometimes referred to as the True Name.

Now you gave an example of a baby born without an arm and you think its because of baby's Karma. What about the babies who are born perfect but they die after few hours? Do they acquire True Name without any hard work?
As you raised a question that is it possible that this baby born without an arm can be test? Yes, it indeed is a test for the parents, the sibling etc. Allah has given different capabilities to different people and their test is based on their capabilities. Some times the kids die before reaching their puberty, in this case these kids are purely a test for their parents and a reminder for us that we all come from Allah and go back to Allah. If a person remains patient, then these kids and babies will intercede for their parents on the day of Judgement with the permission of Allah.

Sikhs also believe that God is in everything and everywhere. That conflicts with Islam and attributes of God. God by definition is eternal, does not change His nature, is infinite and perfect. Therefore any thing which is finite, mortal, imperfect and changes it nature can't be God.
Reply

Singh123a
07-31-2019, 03:33 PM
Originally Posted by keiv
Wouldn’t you consider the guru intentionally praying in the opposite direction to be more rebellious than unifying?
The reason why Guru Nanak prayed in opposite direction is to tell several things as per Sikhism unity should be focused on God. Let’s take example the main Sikh worship temple called Golden Temple - there is a reason it has 4 way entrance and that reason is that no matter if you are hindu, Christian Muslim anybody is welcome because before anything else we all are humans. Guru Nanak was not against Islam because all the Guru is saying that unification should be with almighty when we pray try to forget everything else and focus your mind, soul and body on him alone. Sikhism is more of mystic Sufism.

I have seen some Muslims come to our Gurdwara for learning only which is ok I suppose

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman
Based on understanding, Sikhism accepts the Hindu belief in karma and reincarnation but preaches a simple way of ending the cycle, by living a disciplined life. Sikhs believe that through the grace of God and by constantly contemplating upon and repeating His name one can be liberated from the cycle of birth and death. Guru Nanak explained to his followers that birth is due to Karma but liberation is due to God’s grace. Guru Nanak taught that salvation does not mean entering paradise after a last judgment, but a union and absorption into God, sometimes referred to as the True Name.

Now you gave an example of a baby born without an arm and you think its because of baby's Karma. What about the babies who are born perfect but they die after few hours? Do they acquire True Name without any hard work?
As you raised a question that is it possible that this baby born without an arm can be test? Yes, it indeed is a test for the parents, the sibling etc. Allah has given different capabilities to different people and their test is based on their capabilities. Some times the kids die before reaching their puberty, in this case these kids are purely a test for their parents and a reminder for us that we all come from Allah and go back to Allah. If a person remains patient, then these kids and babies will intercede for their parents on the day of Judgement with the permission of Allah.

Sikhs also believe that God is in everything and everywhere. That conflicts with Islam and attributes of God. God by definition is eternal, does not change His nature, is infinite and perfect. Therefore any thing which is finite, mortal, imperfect and changes it nature can't be God.
Ok, let’s say the test is for the parents of the baby, the siblings, but what about the baby itself? Why is the new life getting punished? If the baby died after few hours, sure yes I agree it’s punishment for the parents but it still comes back to point a - why the new life ended for the baby itself....God being everywhere in Gurmukhi doesn’t mean physical attributions it simply means gods realization in Sufi aspect. But yes Sikhism and Islam are different in belief system
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HabibUrrehman
07-31-2019, 04:06 PM
Originally Posted by Singh123a
Ok, let’s say the test is for the parents of the baby, the siblings, but what about the baby itself? Why is the new life getting punished? If the baby died after few hours, sure yes I agree it’s punishment for the parents but it still comes back to point a - why the new life ended for the baby itself....God being everywhere in Gurmukhi doesn’t mean physical attributions it simply means gods realization in Sufi aspect. But yes Sikhism and Islam are different in belief system
Kids who die before puberty will be in paradise without any questioning.

Let me quote few hadiths regarding sufferings in life and their reward in hereafter:


Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) reported that the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said:

For any adversity a Muslim suffers, Allah erases some of his sins, even though it may be no more than a thorn pricking him.(Al-Bukhari).

Another version of this Hadith is also related by Al-Bukhari on the authority of two of the Prophet’s (PBUH) companions, namely, Abu Saeed Al-Khudri and Abu Hurairah who quote him as saying:


Whatever befalls a Muslim of exhaustion, illness, worry, grief, nuisance or trouble, even though it may be no more than a prick of a thorn, earns him forgiveness by Allah of some of his sins. (Al-Bukhari)

Jabir ibn Abdullah narrated that Allah’s Messenger PBUH said,

On the Day of Resurrection, when people who have suffered affliction are given their reward, those who are healthy will wish their skins had been cut to pieces with scissors when they were in the world. (Al-Tirmidhi, 1570)
Now let me ask what's the proof that Sikhism is not a man made religion? If you are not born as a Sikh, how would you realize Sikhism is the true religion?
Reply

Singh123a
07-31-2019, 04:26 PM
Ok but there is no actual explanation of why the baby died...this is why past karma comes to play so in those terms it’s different. In regards to religion, Sikhism is word of god because it rejects science because god is above science, God cannot be realized by idolship, rituals, pictures. As per Sikhism, anyone is welcome to God’s house of worship because of humanity together prays and your immersed in his naam simran as we call it then you’ve realized God, because God is all about love, compassion. A Sikhs duty is to help the poor just like what Islam says, do your daily prayers, let go of the 5 vices which is kam, karod, lobh, moh, and anghar, do langhar seva, work truthfully and earn honest living, and be warm welcoming to anybody regardless of religion to Gurdwara or Golden Temple. Guru Nanaks attempt was to bring humanity in all because God will be more appeased for such a way of life
Reply

keiv
07-31-2019, 06:30 PM
Originally Posted by Singh123a
The reason why Guru Nanak prayed in opposite direction is to tell several things as per Sikhism unity should be focused on God. Let’s take example the main Sikh worship temple called Golden Temple - there is a reason it has 4 way entrance and that reason is that no matter if you are hindu, Christian Muslim anybody is welcome because before anything else we all are humans. Guru Nanak was not against Islam because all the Guru is saying that unification should be with almighty when we pray try to forget everything else and focus your mind, soul and body on him alone. Sikhism is more of mystic Sufism.

I have seen some Muslims come to our Gurdwara for learning only which is ok I suppose

Maybe I’m confused but, I still don’t understand the point behind the incident you posted about. Millions of Muslims all praying in the same direction to the same God at any point of the day seems pretty unifying to me. The soul purpose of praying is to focus on Allah. No singing, instruments, noises, dancing, chanting, etc. What exactly is the argument here?
Reply

Singh123a
07-31-2019, 06:38 PM
Originally Posted by keiv
Maybe I’m confused but, I still don’t understand the point behind the incident you posted about. Millions of Muslims all praying in the same direction to the same God at any point of the day seems pretty unifying to me. The soul purpose of praying is to focus on Allah. No singing, instruments, noises, dancing, chanting, etc. What exactly is the argument here?
No argument at all, yes millions of Muslims pray in certain direction, but what Guru Nanak is trying to say is let’s say for example you decide to pray opposite direction just a scenario would you still not be able to focus on Allah? The Guru Sahib is simply saying direction or no direction a true Musliman will be successful in focusing on God.
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HabibUrrehman
07-31-2019, 07:01 PM
Originally Posted by Singh123a
No argument at all, yes millions of Muslims pray in certain direction, but what Guru Nanak is trying to say is let’s say for example you decide to pray opposite direction just a scenario would you still not be able to focus on Allah? The Guru Sahib is simply saying direction or no direction a true Musliman will be successful in focusing on God.
That's like saying I will do things in my own way, I don't care what Allah said in Quran because I know better than God.

As brother @keiv explained that direction for prayer is to unify Muslims. Divine law unites people to one thing where as human made religions don't focus on unity. Imagine if everyone starts following their own desires, there will be chaos and no one can enforce any law.
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Singh123a
07-31-2019, 07:10 PM
Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman
That's like saying I will do things in my own way, I don't care what Allah said in Quran because I know better than God.

As brother @keiv explained that direction for prayer is to unify Muslims. Divine law unites people to one thing where as human made religions don't focus on unity. Imagine if everyone starts following their own desires, there will be chaos and no one can enforce any law.
Guru Nanak got this message from God - this what unity / focus as per Sikhism is it’s not only unity of Muslims but unity for whole of mankind - that is why the very first words which came from Guru Nanak was, “there is no hindu there is no Muslim”. If the focus / unity is with God for a Sikh he or she will pray in any direction. Gods message was to unite humanity - as per Sikhism, but yes this is why Sikhism and Islam is different because both have different beliefs
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HabibUrrehman
07-31-2019, 07:15 PM
You made several statements which lack basic understanding of life and death.

Originally Posted by Singh123a
Ok but there is no actual explanation of why the baby died...this is why past karma comes to play so in those terms it’s different.
God is the owner of life and death. If He wants to give life and death to someone, He does not explain it to anyone. You can die during an accident and we can give as many reason as we can but fact of the matter is it was your time to die. Only God know the time of our death and no one can live a second more or less than the appointed time.

Originally Posted by Singh123a
In regards to religion, Sikhism is word of god because it rejects science because god is above science.

This is absurd. Science is a knowledge and it only confirm what is truth. Divine message from God shall have no conflict with established facts of science.

Originally Posted by Singh123a
God cannot be realized by idolship, rituals, pictures.


Muslims agree with that.


Originally Posted by Singh123a
As per Sikhism, anyone is welcome to God’s house of worship because of humanity together prays and your immersed in his naam simran as we call it then you’ve realized God, because God is all about love, compassion. A Sikhs duty is to help the poor just like what Islam says, do your daily prayers, let go of the 5 vices which is kam, karod, lobh, moh, and anghar, do langhar seva, work truthfully and earn honest living, and be warm welcoming to anybody regardless of religion to Gurdwara or Golden Temple. Guru Nanaks attempt was to bring humanity in all because God will be more appeased for such a way of life.

Who is Guru? A Prophet? How you know the message delivered by Guru is from God. This was my main question and you are avoiding to answer this directly.

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Singh123a
07-31-2019, 07:34 PM
Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman
You made several statements which lack basic understanding of life and death.



God is the owner of life and death. If He wants to give life and death to someone, He does not explain it to anyone. You can die during an accident and we can give as many reason as we can but fact of the matter is it was your time to die. Only God know the time of our death and no one can live a second more or less than the appointed time.

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This is absurd. Science is a knowledge and it only confirm what is truth. Divine message from God shall have no conflict with established facts of science.



Muslims agree with that.
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Who is Guru? A Prophet? How you know the message delivered by Guru is from God. This was my main question and you are avoiding to answer this directly.[/LEFT][/LEFT]

agree it’s gods choice but then why was the baby born to begin with if it’s destined to die so quick? The matter still comes back to point a - the baby itself got punished.

As per Sikhism God is higher then science, it does not need proofing, proofing is experienced within. The point of how Sikhism to be word of god, is that it unites humanity it does not divide it, there is not a single verse in Shri Guru Granth Sahib which will say Sikhism is higher or Christian is higher, nothing is high or low, the highest of high is Waheguru that’s why before a label of hindu or Christian or anything god said humanity is first and he is appeased when everything is equal and you do your karma, but again there is no right or wrong here it’s totally that Islam and Sikhism is different in various ways
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HabibUrrehman
07-31-2019, 07:55 PM
Originally Posted by Singh123a
agree it’s gods choice but then why was the baby born to begin with if it’s destined to die so quick? The matter still comes back to point a - the baby itself got punished.


As I answered earlier, the baby is going to be in heaven without questioning. If I will have to choose between suffering in temporary life vs heaven for eternity with no suffering and sadness, I will always chose suffering in this life. Refer to hadiths I previously quoted on this subject.
Allah tests whom He loves. Prophets are the one who are tested the most and by your understanding they were punished for their Karma?

Originally Posted by Singh123a
As per Sikhism God is higher then science, it does not need proofing, proofing is experienced within. The point of how Sikhism to be word of god, is that it unites humanity it does not divide it, there is not a single verse in Shri Guru Granth Sahib which will say Sikhism is higher or Christian is higher, nothing is high or low, the highest of high is Waheguru that’s why before a label of hindu or Christian or anything god said humanity is first and he is appeased when everything is equal and you do your karma, but again there is no right or wrong here it’s totally that Islam and Sikhism is different in various ways
That's not a proof by any means. And it is not practical either. Why do Sikhs fight with Hindus if it is all about love? People who are bad should be called out. Love alone is not a solution, you can't run your own house hold based on love alone.
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Singh123a
07-31-2019, 07:57 PM
Anyways I have to go I have pending documentation to take care of lots of it did not start so won’t be able to come back on this forum - it was very nice discussion may Waheguru bless us all. Joh Bole Sohna Hal, Satsriakal Shri Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Shri Waheguru Ji de Fateh. Satsrikal Khuda Hafiz
Reply

MazharShafiq
08-02-2019, 05:50 PM
Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman
You made several statements which lack basic understanding of life and death.



God is the owner of life and death. If He wants to give life and death to someone, He does not explain it to anyone. You can die during an accident and we can give as many reason as we can but fact of the matter is it was your time to die. Only God know the time of our death and no one can live a second more or less than the appointed time.

[/LEFT]

This is absurd. Science is a knowledge and it only confirm what is truth. Divine message from God shall have no conflict with established facts of science.



Muslims agree with that.
[/LEFT]

[/LEFT][/LEFT][/LEFT]

Who is Guru? A Prophet? How you know the message delivered by Guru is from God. This was my main question and you are avoiding to answer this directly.[/LEFT]
[/LEFT]
well said
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