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User2024
12-03-2011, 05:59 PM
Salam,

Nearly 3,000 so-called "honour" attacks took place in the UK last year, according to new research.

Figures obtained by the Iranian and Kurdish Women's Rights Organisation (Ikwro) showed at least 2,823 incidents of "honour-based" violence, with the highest number recorded in London.The charity said the statistics do not give the full picture of the levels of "honour" violence in the UK , but are the best national estimate so far.
The number of incidents is significant, particularly when we consider the high levels of abuse that victims suffer before they seek help.
Ikwro report
"'Honour' attacks are punishments usually carried out on women who have been accused of bringing shame on their family and in the past have included abductions, mutilations, beatings and murder," the report said.
It always something about Islam.

http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/16122893
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GuestFellow
12-04-2011, 01:41 PM
It does not mention Islam though feel free to correct me because I did not read the article carefully. I do think people will connect these incidents to Islam which is not the article's fault.
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User2024
12-04-2011, 04:10 PM
Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
It does not mention Islam though feel free to correct me because I did not read the article carefully. I do think people will connect these incidents to Islam which is not the article's fault.
It's pretty obvious they are relating it to Islam. They had a women there with a full Burka and another women who was a victim and died some years ago, for disrespecting the family. Also if you read the comments people were talking about this is what Shariah law is, however I just ignored them, cause most of the comments on Sky News and BBC News are EDL and BNP Members. The news is their first source!
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GuestFellow
12-04-2011, 04:19 PM
Originally Posted by PoweredByGoogle
It's pretty obvious they are relating it to Islam. They had a women there with a full Burka and another women who was a victim and died some years ago, for disrespecting the family.
Salaam,

Oh okay.

Also if you read the comments people were talking about this is what Shariah law is, however I just ignored them, cause most of the comments on Sky News and BBC News are EDL and BNP Members. The news is their first source!
I didn't read the comments because I knew some members would link the article to Islam and immigration. It gets kinda boring and repetitive. You can almost guess what these people are gonna say.
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User2024
12-04-2011, 04:22 PM
Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
Salaam,

Oh okay.



I didn't read the comments because I knew some members would link the article to Islam and immigration. It gets kinda boring and repetitive. You can almost guess what these people are gonna say.
Sky News is total BS anyway, every time I make a comment they never approve it maybe because it tells the truth.
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GuestFellow
12-04-2011, 04:23 PM
Originally Posted by PoweredByGoogle
Sky News is total BS anyway, every time I make a comment they never approve it maybe because it tells the truth.
Give me an example of the type of comment you make please. I want to compare it to the other comments made on the site.
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User2024
12-04-2011, 04:29 PM
Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
Give me an example of the type of comment you make please. I want to compare it to the other comments made on the site.
i didn't make a comment on the Burka one. I did make a comment on the Solider who stabbed a boy though.

I wrote something like,

"This happens every day they torute people but you will never see it on the media, It will remian hidden there have been many
cases when Soliders have commited crimes, but it never gets shown. "
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GuestFellow
12-04-2011, 04:49 PM
Originally Posted by PoweredByGoogle
i didn't make a comment on the Burka one. I did make a comment on the Solider who stabbed a boy though.

I wrote something like,

"This happens every day they torute people but you will never see it on the media, It will remian hidden there have been many
cases when Soliders have commited crimes, but it never gets shown. "
Salaam,

The truth hurts.

Back to the topic, honour killings do occur and it needs to be discussed. Also, there are cases where drunk men beat up their wife and children, so these needs to be brought to the attention of the public as well.
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Snowflake
12-04-2011, 05:44 PM
Unfortunately, we (muslims) sometimes only have themselves to blame for the opinions others form about us.



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Donations can be made at: http://www.justgiving.com/NZF-Ansars/2
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User2024
12-04-2011, 05:52 PM
Serious crimes have happened, to what about Josef Fritz? And some more in the USA were more serious crimes happen, it has happened in UK as well.

A few I head before when a women was shot in the face by her Husband he was abusive.
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Perseveranze
12-04-2011, 06:14 PM
Asalaamu Alaikum,

The ruling on Honour killings is quite clear, these people are either uneducated, neglective of Islam or completly culture driven.

I would like to know what the ruling on Honor killings would be and how it should be punished acording to the Laws of the Shariat.

Praise be to Allaah.

Killing a Muslim unlawfully is a serious matter and a grave crime. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And whoever kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell to abide therein; and the Wrath and the Curse of Allaah are upon him, and a great punishment is prepared for him”

[al-Nisa’ 4:93]

al-Bukhaari (6355) narrated from Ibn ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The believer will continue to be encompassed by the mercy of Allaah so long as he does not shed blood that it is forbidden to shed.”



The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) has explained to us the reasons for which it becomes permissible to shed this blood. He said: “It is not permissible to shed the blood of a Muslim who bears witness that there is no god but Allaah and that I am the Messenger of Allaah except in three cases: a life for a life (murder), zina of one of who is previously-married (adultery), and the one who changes his religion and forsakes the jamaa’ah.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari (6370) and Muslim (3175). From this it is clear that zina on the part of one who is married is one of the reasons that make it permissible to kill a person, but the zaani (adulterer) cannot be killed unless two conditions are met:

-1-

He should be previously-married. The scholars have explained what is meant by previously-married in this case. Zakariya al-Ansaari (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in Asna’l-Mataalib (4/128): The previously-married person, whether male or female, is any adult of sound mind who has previously had intercourse within a valid marriage. End quote. Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in al-Sharh al-Zaad (6/120): There are five conditions for (being described as) previously-married:

1- Intercourse

2- Within a valid marriage

3- Being an adult

4- Being of sound reason

5- Being free (i.e., not a slave).

End quote.

-2-

The second condition is that it should be proven that the hadd punishment is deserved, by the testimony of four male witnesses who saw the private parts meet, or the person should freely admit to having committed zina, without being forced to do so.

If it is proven that he deserves the hadd punishment, it is not permissible for individuals to carry out this punishment themselves. Rather the matter must be referred to the ruler or his deputy to prove the crime and carry out the punishment, because if individuals carry out hadd punishments, that will lead to a great deal of corruption and evil.

Ibn Muflih al-Hanbali (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in al-Furoo’ (6/53): It is haraam for anyone to carry out a hadd punishment except the ruler or his deputy. This is something on which the fuqaha’ of Islam are unanimously agreed, as was stated in al-Mawsoo’ah al-Fiqhiyyah (5/280): The fuqaha’ are unanimously agreed that the one who should carry out hadd punishments is the ruler or his deputy, whether the punishment is transgressing one of the limits of Allaah, may He be exalted, such as zina, or a transgression against another person, such as slander. End quote.

Concealing one who has committed this evil deed so that he may repent and set his affairs straight before he dies is better than exposing him, let alone killing him. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) turned away from Maa’iz (may Allaah be pleased with him) after he admitted committing zina, and he ignored him until he had repeated his confession several times, then he carried out the hadd punishment on him.

Based on this, that which is called “honour killing” is a transgression and wrongdoing, because it is killing one who does not deserve to be killed, namely the virgin if she commits zina (fornication), but the shar’i punishment in her case is flogging and banishment for one year, not execution, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “(The punishment for zina) of a virgin with a virgin person is one hundred lashes and exile for one year.” Narrated by Muslim. The one who kills her has killed a believing soul whom Allaah has forbidden to be killed, and there is a stern warning concerning that, as Allaah, may He be glorified and exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And those who invoke not any other ilaah (god) along with Allaah, nor kill such person as Allaah has forbidden, except for just cause, nor commit illegal sexual intercourse ___ and whoever does this shall receive the punishment.

69. The torment will be doubled to him on the Day of Resurrection, and he will abide therein in disgrace”

[al-Furqaan 25:68-69]

Even if we assume that she deserves to be executed (if she was previously-married and committed zina), no one should do that but the ruler – as stated above. Moreover, in many cases killing is done on the basis of accusations and speculation, without proving whether the immoral action even took place.

And Allaah knows best.

http://islamqa.com/en/ref/101972
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IslamicRevival
12-04-2011, 11:22 PM
We need to get real here, Sky, along with the BBC are a pile of trash who seek to malign Islam at every opportunity but we must acknowledge this problem does exist!

The causes of such horrendous, sick crimes are due to lack of understanding of our own faith. When people mix culture with religion, that's where it all goes terribly wrong.
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esperanza
12-05-2011, 06:07 PM
but such crimes do happen..a group of muslim women in uk have pledged to wokr together to fight against violence,

you cannot just blame this on western media..reality suh crimes happen in muslim ountries and muslim communities inthe west

http://www.wisemuslimwomen.org/curre...izationofrape/
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Muhammad
12-05-2011, 06:20 PM
:wa:

I came across this from another news source, where it actually called it 'Muslim honour-killings' in the title. Whilst we have to acknowledge the problem of honour-killings and find solutions for it, articles like these give the false impression that honour-killings are a part of Islam. They make no distinction between what Islam actually teaches and what followers of Islam are doing based on their own culture/ignorance/desire etc. Instead, a clear message needs to be given that people who perform such killings are not acting according to Islam.
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Insaanah
12-05-2011, 06:43 PM
Originally Posted by PoweredByGoogle
Figures obtained by the Iranian and Kurdish Women's Rights Organisation (Ikwro) showed...
Sometimes it's useful to know the background/agenda/biases of the organisations that send this news out to the newspapers and TV:

Sharia also includes rules on child custody which do not protect the welfare of children, and discriminates against women in other ways, for example by deeming their testimony to be worth half of a man’s and specifying that sons should inherit twice the share that daughters do.

We are working with parliamentarians, other women’s organisations and women who have been through the Sharia system to raise awareness of the ways in which Sharia tribunals in the UK are violating women’s rights. We want all bodies involved in religious arbitration to be brought under the remit of sex discrimination legislation and the Human Rights Act.
http://ikwro.handsupdigital.com/cont...law-in-the-uk/

IKWRO welcomes bill to limit Sharia Law in Britain
IKWRO celebrated last week when a new bill was launched in parliament which would limit the remit of Sharia Law in Britain
The Bill will also bring arbitration tribunals under existing rules on sex discrimination, and will outlaw discriminatory practices, such as giving women’s testimony half the weight of men’s and according men greater inheritance and property rights than women.
The changes will also help to guarantee equality before the law, and to ensure that basic human rights as recognised in the Human Rights Act and equality legislation are accorded to all.
Over the coming months, IKWRO will be putting pressure on the Prime Minister to move from words to action
We’ll also be working to get MPs to support the bill, starting by asking them to attend a parliamentary debate on this issue, which is being organised by the One Law for All campaign
http://ikwro.org.uk/2011/06/15/ikwro...aw-in-britain/

They see Islamic Shariah law as not protecting the welfare of children, discriminating against women, violating women's rights, and not giving people their basic human rights. They say that they would like to see Islamic Shariah law done away with altogether in Britain, and that they would like the goverment to do this, and will support them on it.

While every case is sad and a case too much, and while cases that occur are nothing to do with the religion of Islam, more people's own personal/cultural outlooks, it's important for Muslims to verify the trustworthiness of the source.
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Hamza Asadullah
12-05-2011, 10:01 PM
This is just another zionist media led campaign to defame Islam and Muslims. It is not surprising at all. If its not one thing then its another. It is a clever way to manipulate people into thinking of Islam and Muslims as barbaric and backward. Yes honour killings do happen but it is rare. If it does happen once in a blue moon then it is blown way out of proportion, just like the number of extremist Muslims in the Uk which is so low that they do not even make up 0.001 percent of the Muslim population in the Uk.
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Insaanah
12-05-2011, 10:35 PM
While the word Islam is carefully not mentioned in the Sky article, it is mentioned in others carrying the story, here are just a couple of examples:

http://www.thecommentator.com/articl...he_word_islam_
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti..._news_rss_feed

And the reprsentative from the IKWRO when she appeared on the BBC did say it was predominantly a Muslim problem.

I don't know what the true figures are, but if 2,800 honour attacks occur in a year, then shariah law has to be campaigned against, and Muslims have to be maligned.

Yet, at least 415,059 alcohol related crimes occurred in the year 2009/2010, including:

killings
rapes
beatings
stabbings
domestic violence and assaults
thefts and muggings
damage to property
road rage
drink-drive deaths
nocturnal disorder and roudiness, vomiting on street etc
self-harm,
the list is endless and doesn't end here.

And, causing a drain on health resources, with 945,469 admissions to hospital for alcohol-related harm in England in 2008/09. That is nearly a million hospital admissions, either for the victim or drinker. While sometimes those in genuine need of hospital care due to genuine illness can't get it, and/or the NHS won't pay for their drugs.

So, that begs the question, why don't people campaign for alcohol to be banned, and on that basis, why doesn't the goverment ban it? Something that has such a huge impact on lives and property and on the police and health service, and indirectly adversely affects those who don't drink too.

If honour attacks occur, any people guilty need to be dealt with appropriately, as are any other criminals for their crimes. Many murders and attacks occur in this country that have motives, be that money, jealousy, suspicion of spouse having affairs etc. But we don't see media/government/group campaigns against people having affairs, and that having affairs should be banned.

The suffering of those it occurs to cannot and should not be trivialised, but we need to look beyond the headlines, and see them in context.

Source for figures: http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standa...cohol-crime.do
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User2024
12-05-2011, 10:55 PM
Originally Posted by esperanza
but such crimes do happen..a group of muslim women in uk have pledged to wokr together to fight against violence,

you cannot just blame this on western media..reality suh crimes happen in muslim ountries and muslim communities inthe west

http://www.wisemuslimwomen.org/curre...izationofrape/
As a result, rape victims remain silent and refrain from seeking help because they are afraid of repercussions and lack of justice. At the same time, there are other women who take their own lives, in what is known as “honor suicides,” due to mounting family pressure and fear.
According to a 2002 report by the United Nations Special Rapporteur on Violence Against Women, honor killings take place in Pakistan, Turkey, Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, Iran, Yemen, Morocco and other Mediterranean and Gulf countries.7 It also occurs in countries such as Germany, France and the United Kingdom within immigrant communities. Honor killings are not only practiced in Muslim-majority societies.8 Dowry deaths in India and crime passions in Latin America are similar acts of violence by male family members who target women because of a perceived loss of family honor and which are accepted in some communities.
Wow I am surprised they did not include Saudi Arabia in there, did they get paid to keep them out? Or do Saudis know how to follow the religion correctly?
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