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جوري
12-07-2011, 03:16 AM
A 12-year-old boy could spend life in prison when he is tried as an adult for the murder of his two-year-old brother.
Cristian Fernandez is the youngest person ever to be charged with first-degree murder in the city of Jacksonville. Prosecutors say the pre-teen "acted with premeditation" when he allegedly shoved his two-year-old brother into a bookshelf, leaving the boy with a fractured skull and internal bleeding to the brain, CBS reports.
The younger boy, David, died two days after the March incident.
"Yes, I have compassion for Cristian Fernandez , but it's not my job to forgive, it's my job to follow the law," prosecutor Angela Corey recently told Fox News.
The prosecution did offer a plea deal which would have freed Fernandez on his twenty-first birthday. Defense attorneys did not accept, however, on the basis that Fernandez would be forced to admit murder and likely serve the final three years of his sentence in an adult prison, according to the Florida Times-Union.
A trial is set for Feb. 27, 2012.
Ferandez's mother, 25-year-old Biannela Susana, also faces aggravated manslaughter and culpable negligence charges relating to the incident. Prosecutors say Biannela, who gave birth to Fernandez when she was 12-years-old, first informed cops that her younger son injured himself in a fall.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1..._lnk3%7C118130

his own mother had him when she was 12.. so do you think he should be tried as an adult?

:w:
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syed1
12-07-2011, 04:06 AM
this seems like a rather peculiar case...

its interesting point out what the mother did after the incident:

"when some one gets knocked out "@ 10 54 AM
concussion on children @2:38 pm
checked bank account
downloaded music
St. lukes hospital.. @3:07 pm

4 hours later she decided to take him to the hospital ??? Really ... what was she thinking?


As for the case, I do not think its fair for a boy at 12 to be charged for first degree murder.. It's not fair, children are prone to make mistakes especially stupid ones like these.. I think its the mothers fault more for leaving the 2 together given the childs history of violence..
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جوري
12-07-2011, 04:30 AM
is he a child though? I think they should both be fully tried, she herself had him at 12.. so I am not sure.. people do very adult things, very calculated adult things.. problem with him though is he'll do the time and come out a hardened criminal for what schooling or skills will he be offered in prison?
I am a strong supporter of the death penalty.
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syed1
12-07-2011, 04:48 AM
Originally Posted by ßlµêßêll
I am a strong supporter of the death penalty.
There is nothing wrong with the death penalty but I don't think it should be applied in this situation....It's a little harsh don't you think?

I agree that kids even at the age of 12 can make adult decisions..like his mom who chose have a child at 12... but I also believe that as a minor you whatever you do should be regarded as a minor and you should be able to rehabilitate and have a second chance...

If he goes to jail and takes the plea and agrees to second degree murder (which he denied ) he who go to jail till 21, would spend some time in adult prison and it would be on his track record for life.. what's the point of that? Yes, your right, he would come out an hardened criminal and probably be a bigger burden to society.. if you spend your life from 12-21 in jail, which some might argue are your most precious years, where you are developing your self, finding your self, what kind of person would you become when you come out of a jail environment after 10 years? you might as well rot in jail for ever because it would be very hard for someone to integrate back into society..

what ever happened to "boys will be boys"?
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جوري
12-07-2011, 05:07 AM
Originally Posted by syed1
It's a little harsh don't you think?
I am actually not sure what the answer is to a situation like this would be very interested in a scholarly critique. I am also not familiar with all the details of the case and don't consider one to be a minor or a major out of an arbitrary cut off point that changes state to state & country to country.. in other words someone who is seventeen and a half and considered a minor doesn't differ much to me from someone who is eighteen and considered an adult. I think they should be tried on an individual basis..This is a very horrible very very horrible adult crime and his mother should be held equally accountable, her behavior isn't very motherly and I imagine it wasn't to either of them.. it is almost like she had a litter of kids as a wild animal and doesn't even care for the bare minimum like actual animals do of food, shelter and protection.
I can't help but think of the story of Moses (PBUH) and Zhu El-khidr .. of course none of us are given that kind of divine wisdom..
one thing for sure this doesn't fall under boys will be boys.. that expression I can forgive if a boy thoughtlessly goes after the last piece of steak when someone else hasn't had their dinner but not over killing and shoving in a bookshelf in a most savage manner..
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MustafaMc
12-07-2011, 05:21 AM
Could it be that the 12-year is being blamed for something that someone else (mother, mother's boyfriend, etc) did?
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MustafaMc
12-07-2011, 01:41 PM
Even if this boy is guilty of what he is accused of doing, it shows evidence of an exceedingly disturbed individual. It would be better to remove him from that home and put him under psychiatric care. Trying him as an adult and putting him in prison will most likely harden him into an unreformable criminal if he ever gets released.
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Rhubarb Tart
12-07-2011, 04:55 PM
:sl:

Did he start his puberty? And how these people know he acted with premeditation? Was it a moment of anger and jealously? He would have shoved his brother but not mean to kill him or he did mean to kill him.

When I was 12 I threw my dad’s boot at my brother’s head and he went to hospital. I was anger and we were fighting at the time. It was one year before I started my puberty and I cannot say I was thinking like an adult because I wasn’t at all. But some kids are evil and do kill on purpose like Mary Bell, who watched her mother prostitute herself and raped by other men. Mary at age 12 killed 5 children all aged 5 in horrific manner. At the time, the public did not respond to her like they did with Jon Vernable and Robert Thomson, she went to psychiatric unit and was released when she was 21 and was later on given a new identity. She is now a grandmother and mother and hasn’t committed a crime since she was released.

Where as Jon and Robert who murdered two years old was released age 18. February 2010, Jon was back in prison for watching child pornography. Robert is yet to commit a crime.

But there is huge difference between Mary and Jon, the public did not want Mary’ blood at the time whereas people wanted Jon and Robert dead. Now, all kids who commit a high profile crime have their identity hidden. Funny thing is, the same public don’t think they are old enough to marry and have sex, yet they are old enough to face the death penalty or be jailed for life. The non Muslims are such hypocrites. Islamically speaking though, Jon and Robert did not start puberty at all and were aged 10 so they wouldn’t be facing death penalty would they?

So after saying all that I don’t know, I think people should be judged as individual. Maybe 12 years did not mean to kill his brother, maybe he did? This case, is not as obvious as Mary bell. This case can easily be manslaughter rather than murder.
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.iman.
12-07-2011, 05:05 PM
subhanAllah this is a really sad story. At first I was thinking he's only 12, that's a bit severe, he just shoved his brother, but then I was thinking that must be a very violent shove to cause a skull fracture and internal bleeding! How do we know the intention was to actually KILL his brother? He may have just been acting in anger or jealousy and not realized his strength. Seeing as though the mother didn't respond to the situation until a few hours later, and spent time researching concussions on the internet before taking him to the hospital is ridiculous! Shouldn't she be held responsible seeing as she is not only responsible for her son that shoved the other son, but also to provide care for them? What kind of mother does that?

Look at the timeline of this child's life:
http://justice4juveniles.com/index.php?topic=423.0

even if he spends time in prison or not, honestly does anyone see how he has a future of any kind? That type of neglect and trauma during a childhood will cause irreversible emotional damage to a child, which often leads to a lifetime of crime. I agree with syed1, even if he spends from 12-21 in jail, he won't be able to function properly in society after that. I can't quote the actual percentage, but I do think it's safe to say that the majority of people that spend a long time in jail and get released, end up going back after less than 1 year of being out because they can't integrate and they end up turning to the streets again.

May Allah guide this child to the right path. Ameen.
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Hamza Asadullah
12-07-2011, 05:34 PM
Islamically a person can only be responsible for their actions once they have gone through puberty as far as I know.
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IslamicRevival
12-07-2011, 05:36 PM
Freak accident, im sure the boy didn't mean to injure his brother
If anyone's to blame, its their parents for allowing this to happen
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syed1
12-07-2011, 06:06 PM
Originally Posted by .iman.
thinking that must be a very violent shove to cause a skull fracture and internal bleeding
Well you have consider the fact that his brother was only 2 years old, hence, he must of had a very weak skull to begin with regardless of the push.. maybe he only pushed him lightly and did not intend to kill him but since hes only 2 he did way more damage than he thought he would...

Originally Posted by .iman.
! Shouldn't she be held responsible seeing as she is not only responsible for her son that shoved the other son, but also to provide care for them? What kind of mother does that?
I believe she is being held responsible for negligence in manslaughter cause as the article stated she might of saved the boys life if she had rushed to the hospital right away...
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Ghazalah
12-07-2011, 06:15 PM
Whether he has hit puberty is something which needs to be considered. However, who pushes someone into a bookshelf with the intention of killing them? I don't think that was the 12 year olds intention.
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syed1
12-07-2011, 06:26 PM
Originally Posted by syed1
thinking that must be a very violent shove to cause a skull fracture and internal bleeding
In law we learned of this principle called the "think skull" case which occurs if the plaintiff was unusually vulnerable to injury..and in this case that little boy was... the think skull principle tries to answer the question that if someone carelessly hits a person on the head, are you responsible for all the damages? what if a normal person would not have suffered any injury? what if a normal person would have only suffered a minor injury? the law in this case tries to strike a balance to tread the defendant fairly and compensate the plaintiff as well....

The decision of this type of case is usually the following: if a normal person would not have suffered any any you are not responsible but if a normal person would have suffered some damage, the plaintiff can fully recover for the damages..

so I guess the question is... if a normal person were to be pushed by this 12 year old would he have suffered the same damage or even any damage at all ? or is it due to the little boy who in this case probably quite literally has a thin skull, that he suffered the damage and died..
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جوري
12-07-2011, 07:28 PM
Originally Posted by syed1
Well you have consider the fact that his brother was only 2 years old, hence, he must of had a very weak skull to begin with regardless of the push.. maybe he only pushed him lightly and did not intend to kill him but since hes only 2 he did way more damage than he thought he would...
It isn't a question of weak skull rather in the elderly and the very young for different reasons have a gap between their brain parenchyma and skull cap, thus the bridging veins bleed profusely as they tear from vigorous shaking 'shaken baby syndrome' or any blunt force.
I do believe it was premeditated but I don't believe that he had any semblance of a normal home life anyway. If his mother had him at 12 and very much assume out of wedlock since there's no mention of a father here. I doubt very much that he had any semblance of a moral compass to guide his actions.
I think his mom should be tried and if he has a prayer to be taken into some very strict foster care, although he will forever have his brother's blood on his hands.. It is just unbelievably cruel on both their parts..
and yet I hear of so many tortured and murdered children now a days on the news raped, dumped in the trash that I wonder about the sort of society we live in all together..

:w:
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esperanza
12-08-2011, 11:46 AM
Originally Posted by Ghazalah
Whether he has hit puberty is something which needs to be considered. However, who pushes someone into a bookshelf with the intention of killing them? I don't think that was the 12 year olds intention.

iagree ..yes there are cases of 12 year olds committting murder,,,we had such a case in uk,,,
but it seems here the boy pushed his brother roughly ..in reality this can happen that children can have great anger and dont know their own strenght...would like to think its a freak accident
which would not have happened if they were cared for properly
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Muslim Woman
12-08-2011, 02:43 PM
:sl:

Originally Posted by ßlµêßêll
is he a child though?

In Bangladesh , under 18 are considered as child . They don't go to jail instead they are kept in a different place something like child's behaviour correcting center.
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syed1
12-08-2011, 04:09 PM
I guess the question of whether a 12 year old should be tried as a minor or an adult is becoming more prevalent...

take a look at this video : It seems that a lot of 12 year old are committing adult crimes .. in fact the reporter states " the child looks like a hardened criminal rather than a child"

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جوري
12-08-2011, 04:14 PM
Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
:sl:




In Bangladesh , under 18 are considered as child . They don't go to jail instead they are kept in a different place something like child's behaviour correcting center.
I don't agree with that at all. peter the Great was already conspiring on how to take over Russia at 11 years of age.. This is too funny walhi.. who comes up with these arbitrary numbers? that's a rhetorical question believe me since these so called minors can be emancipated if they join the army or have a child out of wedlock and live on their own at least here in the U.S.

:w:
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GuestFellow
12-08-2011, 07:55 PM
Originally Posted by ßlµêßêll
A 12-year-old boy could spend life in prison when he is tried as an adult for the murder of his two-year-old brother.
Cristian Fernandez is the youngest person ever to be charged with first-degree murder in the city of Jacksonville. Prosecutors say the pre-teen "acted with premeditation" when he allegedly shoved his two-year-old brother into a bookshelf, leaving the boy with a fractured skull and internal bleeding to the brain, CBS reports.
The younger boy, David, died two days after the March incident.
"Yes, I have compassion for Cristian Fernandez , but it's not my job to forgive, it's my job to follow the law," prosecutor Angela Corey recently told Fox News.
The prosecution did offer a plea deal which would have freed Fernandez on his twenty-first birthday. Defense attorneys did not accept, however, on the basis that Fernandez would be forced to admit murder and likely serve the final three years of his sentence in an adult prison, according to the Florida Times-Union.
A trial is set for Feb. 27, 2012.
Ferandez's mother, 25-year-old Biannela Susana, also faces aggravated manslaughter and culpable negligence charges relating to the incident. Prosecutors say Biannela, who gave birth to Fernandez when she was 12-years-old, first informed cops that her younger son injured himself in a fall.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1...c1_lnk3|118130

his own mother had him when she was 12.. so do you think he should be tried as an adult?

:w:
:wa:

It believe it depends on the individual. As long as the person has reached puberty and is mentally capable of understanding what he has done was wrong, then he should be tried in a criminal court.
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Eric H
12-08-2011, 08:58 PM
Greetings and peace be with you ßlµêßêll;

Just a thought, but every time a 12 year old pushes a younger sibling against a wall or bookshelf, should they be charged with attempted murder?

I can imagine this happens thousands of times a day, but mostly the sibling lives, they might end up with a bruise, but the angry intent may still be the same.

In the spirit of seeking to be merciful

Eric
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جوري
12-08-2011, 09:07 PM
Originally Posted by Eric H
Just a thought, but every time a 12 year old pushes a younger sibling against a wall or bookshelf, should they be charged with attempted murder?
We would have much death on our hands don't you think? The fact that a child did die is very telling of the intent and force of this situation.

peace
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