2,080 lashes for Saudi man who raped daughter

[islamica]

2,080 lashes for Saudi man who raped daughter

December 12, 2011

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia (AP) — An official Saudi newspaper says a man convicted of raping his daughter has been sentenced to receive 2,080 lashes over the course of a 13-year prison term.

The court in the holy city of Mecca found the man guilty of raping his teenage daughter for seven years while under the influence of drugs.

The Okaz newspaper reported Saturday that the man will receive the lashes in stages throughout his prison sentence. The man's name was not published.

Saudi religious police say the girl's uncle tipped them off to the crime.

Lashing is one of the penalties available to the clerics who serve as judges in Saudi Arabia and issue rulings according to the kingdom's strict interpretation of Islamic law.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...bd12f3b09438d5

I thought the punishment of rape was death penalty in Islam?

[Abz2000]

that's what i thought too, but maybe the daughter waived it.

[Darth Ultor]

Cut that man's head off! I'd have all rapists executed or at the very least, castrated.

[Ramadhan]

I agree with death sentence for rapists.
:raging:

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[attica]

Death penalty! No way.. what happens if later you discover the supposed rapist was not guilty - mistrials happen all the time. Perhaps if it is discovered that someone who got the death penalty was innocent, a random person who voted for the law in favour of the death penalty should be picked and he should be given the death penalty to pay for the death which he has inflicted on an innocent man.

[serena77]

i used to have a problem w/ the death penalty for rapists... Yes I believe that there should be no question that the person is guilty... but i was assualted by my best friends brother when i was at the university... due to some family (step family ) issues when i was younger it sent me into a spiral of PTSD ... I got so sick i couldn't even walk the 6 blocks to classes because i was getting sick any time i ate or drank anything. I did take it to trial. He wrote a letter apologizing .. (oops ) that i took w/ me to the police... it went to court. he plead guilty. to save myself the stress.. i opted for the plea bargin.. that and it was recommended that i do so... he was given 7 days in jail, 4 months suspended, and 4 years probation. It also went to a hearing at his university as he was at a different location than i was.... i acknowledged i didnt want him expelled because i didnt want it to come back on me that he never got a degree and couldn't have a decent life. How i regret that. I was so stupid in trying to do the right thing. I haven't finished my own degree because of how sick i was and now w/ where i am.... it hasn't been very good situation for me to return to studies

I had to move out of the town i was in and it was just an overall bad situation... Yes, i was alone in an apartment w/ him, but i knew his brother so well. He wouldn't have hurt a fly... and the worst thing was he used my own lack of self esteem against me. And yes... I also use this as a reason why i understand the idea of keeping the sexes seperate even though i wasn't raised w/ this being an issue.
Serena

[Ghazalah]

The Saudi dude, and all the other rapists, burying them alive would suffice for me. They don't deserve to live.

[attica]

Imagine after burying them alive you discovered they were not guilty - what should happen then?

[Ghazalah]

Imagine after burying them alive you discovered they were not guilty - what should happen then?

Guilty rapists should be buried alive.

I swear to God, they make me feel sick to my stomach. The pain/hurt they would have caused an individual, on the basis of what? Succumbing to urges they cannot withhold? And because of that, the victim is scarred mentally and phyically for life.

I read a few weeks ago about an Afghan girl who died because of her genitals being ripped due to, to much penetration from the American soldiers whilst repeatedly raping her. I read this from four sources so it's not a fake. Now tell me, do these sick individual deserve to see another daylight?

[Pygoscelis]

I could never get behind the death penalty for that same reason. You can't be 100% certain the person is guilty, even if they are found guilty in court, so eventually you WILL be executing innocents. I'd rather err on the side of not killing innocent people even if it means letting a few guilty people live.

[GuestFellow]

Salaam,

Why didn't the BBC report this? The BBC always reports negative stories about Saudi Arabia. Stories that show victims get justice in Saudi Arabia are never rarely/never reported by the mainstream media.

The whole idea of, we don't really know whether the defendant is truly guilty but we still can sentence him to 58 years of his behind bars, is absurd. If there is any reasonable doubt that the defendant is not guilty, he should not be executed. Hitler was responsible for the deaths of many civilians and there is no doubt in my mind that he was guilty.

[islamica]

It does not matter what you think. Once something has been decided in the Shariah then it's final. Those who claim to not support death penalty, when your sister, mother, wife, or daughter is raped, i like to see how composed and sticking your "morals" you are then.

The punishment for rape in Islam is same as the punishment for zina, which is stoning if the perpetrator is married, and one hundred lashes and banishment for one year if he is not married.

Some scholars also say that he is required to pay a mahr to the woman.

So the judge has the choice of the four punishments mentioned in this verse, and may choose whichever he thinks is most suitable to attain the objective, which is to spread peace and security in society, and ward off evildoers and aggressors.

http://islamqa.com/en/ref/72338

[Banu_Hashim]

Absolutely disgusting... wAllahi under the influence of drugs or not, this man should first be castrated, lashed, imprisoned then publicly humiliated in whatever way is most befitting for a filthy animal like this. Even animals control themselves.

[CosmicPathos]

most of the above are emotional responses. The man committed a heinous crime, no denying. But he was under influence of drugs. Was he addicted to drugs? You do know that people who are addicted to drugs are sick and need professional help? Not all but many. Druggies are humans. They need help. No, they are not evils who should be castrated. Physicians have responsibility towards this class of humanity. If this guy was addicted to drugs, and was committing crimes, Islamically he is not considered "sane." Wallahu Aalim. Yes, what he did was a crime, and due punishment should be given after the man's condition has been judged properly. Moreover, in a godless world, there is nothing wrong with rape. More so in the context of biological evolution.

[islamica]

Tell that to the victim. You reap what you sow, hiding being substance addiction won't save you.

[Mikayeel]

To all those doubting the death penalty. Just out of curiosity, say the convicted pleaded guilty. Would it then be acceptable to enforce the death penalty? Or can you think of more reasons to defend a beast?

[User29123]

I could never get behind the death penalty for that same reason. You can't be 100% certain the person is guilty, even if they are found guilty in court, so eventually you WILL be executing innocents. I'd rather err on the side of not killing innocent people even if it means letting a few guilty people live.

Yes I would agree even now we do have technology and stuff, it has proven wrong. I think the best thing to do is make sure there is a lot of evidence, also keep the person in jail for some years before execution..

[User29123]

To all those doubting the death penalty. Just out of curiosity, say the convicted pleaded guilty. Would it then be acceptable to enforce the death penalty? Or can you think of more reasons to defend a beast?

Even in England people have been found guilty of crimes but then later not guilty..It has happened when people have spent their life in prison and are innocent..

[IslamicRevival]

Hold on a minute, Didnt the Sauidi's execute a woman not so long ago for practicing Black Magic?

Why not do the same to this disgusting vile man too

[CosmicPathos]

Tell that to the victim. You reap what you sow, hiding being substance addiction won't save you.

I am sure the victim also is a criminal to someone else.

Moreover, we all are victims of someone somewhere. Big deal? I am not downplaying the criminality of rape, its just that I think business tycoons running porno industry or all the Kings of Saudi land buying prostitute should be stoned to death before putting these psychologically ill men from poor class.

So called "justice" is always for the poor who gets caught, not for the rich and affluent, eh?

[User29123]

Salaam,

Why didn't the BBC report this? The BBC always reports negative stories about Saudi Arabia. Stories that show victims get justice in Saudi Arabia are never rarely/never reported by the mainstream media.

The whole idea of, we don't really know whether the defendant is truly guilty but we still can sentence him to 58 years of his behind bars, is absurd. If there is any reasonable doubt that the defendant is not guilty, he should not be executed. Hitler was responsible for the deaths of many civilians and there is no doubt in my mind that he was guilty.

That's there job that's why..

[Mikayeel]

Even in England people have been found guilty of crimes but then later not guilty..It has happened when people have spent their life in prison and are innocent..

:sl:

What i meant brother, is that the convicted himself pleaded guilty to the crime.

[CosmicPathos]

To all those doubting the death penalty. Just out of curiosity, say the convicted pleaded guilty. Would it then be acceptable to enforce the death penalty? Or can you think of more reasons to defend a beast?

Beast? Great, its easy for you to say that, especially when you live a healthy life, are not addicted to drugs, have good genes from parents.

What this man did was totally wrong. But till he is proven sane and not psychologically ill, he must not be punished. If he is mentally ill, too bad the daughter was born to parents who were ill. Its a trial for her from Allah. We all have had our trials in past, and will continue to do so till death. Hers is not the "unique" trial.

No need for emotional hysteria.

[GuestFellow]

Beast? Great, its easy for you to say that, especially when you live a healthy life, are not addicted to drugs, have good genes from parents.

What this man did was totally wrong. But till he is proven sane and not psychologically ill, he must not be punished. If he is mentally ill, too bad the daughter was born to parents who were ill. Its a trial for her from Allah. We all have our trials.

No need for emotional hysteria.

Salaam,

I have to agree. The man does not sound mentally stable and does need help. He should not be punished unless he knew what he was doing was wrong.

[GuestFellow]

To all those doubting the death penalty. Just out of curiosity, say the convicted pleaded guilty. Would it then be acceptable to enforce the death penalty? Or can you think of more reasons to defend a beast?

Salaam,

I would be very careful when people plead guilty for serious crimes. There is a possibility he may have been pressured to give a false confession.

[User29123]

:sl:

What i meant brother, is that the convicted himself pleaded guilty to the crime.

Well in Saudi there is no lawyer and no one is allowed in the court, even in the investigation rooms we do not know what goes on. Once in USA police were questioning a boy about a murder and they were forcing him to confess but he never did the murder he was there for 6 hours and at the end he made up his own story and confessed but he was not the real killer...

Lucky they got CCTV footage in the investigation room and someone saw it.. :P

[islamica]

I am sure the victim also is a criminal to someone else.

are you saying the rape victim is a criminal also? you and your kind sicken me out. And you call yourselves muslims, you got sick kind of justice +o(

[serena77]

okay.. so a serious question... I'm not being flippant... or trying to sound stupid... but (please remember i'm a recent revert)
does Shari'a law allow for mental illness in its rulings or drug use? because, if it doesn't ... then a good portion of this thread is moot isnt it? doesn't KSA use Shari'a?
Serena

[Mikayeel]

Beast? Great, its easy for you to say that, especially when you live a healthy life, are not addicted to drugs, have good genes from parents.

What this man did was totally wrong. But till he is proven sane and not psychologically ill, he must not be punished. If he is mentally ill, too bad the daughter was born to parents who were ill. Its a trial for her from Allah. We all have had our trials in past, and will continue to do so till death. Hers is not the "unique" trial.

No need for emotional hysteria.

akhee, on the surface it all looks wrong for this guy. But then again i do not know the details, we can only speculate.

For the state to have sentenced him means that he most likely had a mental check. I cant even think as to why you would find any reason to defend him?? From what we know he was a drug user, again his own decision to start. And on top of that decided to RAPE his own daughter.... These are the facts, they cant be put any nicer.

I am living a healthy life because i choose to! I am not addicted to drugs, because i stay away from them. Does it mention that the guy has a corrupt pair of genes? Thats amusing how you would think that criminals... BEASTS if you like, can turn around and blame their actions on their bad genes. Common no one is born perfect, but we all have to live with what we have, and have to say alhamdulilah.

[GuestFellow]

I am not addicted to drugs, because i stay away from them.

Salaam,

Some people get addicted to drugs because it is a way to cope with very difficult problems. They do need support. Like smoking. Lashing a person for smoking is not going to work. However, to help them and educate people about the dangers of smoking is better and actually works.

Not saying the rapist should not be punished unless he was mentally disturbed.

[Ramadhan]

Imagine after burying them alive you discovered they were not guilty - what should happen then?

The death sentence is after they are proved guilty, of course.

One of the best thing about Islam is that when an innocent mistake occurs, everyone will get their just rewards in the hereafter as Allah is The Just.
Not so in any other religion.

[Mikayeel]

:wa:

@ Tragic Typos

You see what your saying is that when life gets tough and your not educated, use drugs! Commit crimes! And then to top it of you will just receive education!

To me akhee that shows weakness in character, something we muslims should not have! When life gets the better of us, WE KNOW its a test! And allah does not burden a soul with more than it can handle! So no such thing as too difficult! Its a test, that we know we can pass.

Fair enough to those that end up using drugs for whatever reason, and are in dire need to receive treatment to stop. But to abuse drugs to the extend of raping, and then beg for help......

I really can't see why anyone would defend this this... yes i say it again BEAST.

[Ramadhan]

I could never get behind the death penalty for that same reason. You can't be 100% certain the person is guilty, even if they are found guilty in court, so eventually you WILL be executing innocents. I'd rather err on the side of not killing innocent people even if it means letting a few guilty people live.

In a just and fair court, how many percentages of innocent man sentenced to death, versus the idea of letting a large number of rapists and murderers loose to make devastating destructions of the lives of so many people?

The good thing in Islam is that an innocent person killed will get their recompense in the hereafter.

The whole idea of, we don't really know whether the defendant is truly guilty but we still can sentence him to 58 years of his behind bars, is absurd. If there is any reasonable doubt that the defendant is not guilty, he should not be executed. Hitler was responsible for the deaths of many civilians and there is no doubt in my mind that he was guilty.

Exactly.

[Ramadhan]

okay.. so a serious question... I'm not being flippant... or trying to sound stupid... but (please remember i'm a recent revert)
does Shari'a law allow for mental illness in its rulings or drug use? because, if it doesn't ... then a good portion of this thread is moot isnt it? doesn't KSA use Shari'a?
Serena

Truly mentally ill person is not responsible for their actions according to shariah.

But say, someone with sound mind who consciously drink alcohol, then got drunk, then kill an innocent person or rape a woman, then he is still responsible for the crime even if they were not fully in control of their actions at the time of the crime.
The same if you substitute alcohol for any other intoxicant such as drugs.
(there's a reason why prohibition against intoxicants is repeated several times in the Qur'an)

There are ahadeeth that suppport this.

[serena77]

thank you brother. In some ways that is simillar to the guilty by mental defect that i'm used to. One thing i've learned is such intoxicants very rarely change who a person is, they may just make certain parts show through more clear than they would in other occasions... and yes i know before anyone comments that addiction can become an illness. My father suffered horribly from that at the same time... he also made his choices.
Serena

[CosmicPathos]

are you saying the rape victim is a criminal also? you and your kind sicken me out. And you call yourselves muslims, you got sick kind of justice +o(

if you feel sickened then please do take tylenol and other sedating drugs. yes i call myself muslim and as a muslim I dont go on a killing rampage just cuz someone is blamed to have committed a crime.

[CosmicPathos]

:wa:

@ Tragic Typos

You see what your saying is that when life gets tough and your not educated, use drugs! Commit crimes! And then to top it of you will just receive education!

To me akhee that shows weakness in character, something we muslims should not have! When life gets the better of us, WE KNOW its a test! And allah does not burden a soul with more than it can handle! So no such thing as too difficult! Its a test, that we know we can pass.

Fair enough to those that end up using drugs for whatever reason, and are in dire need to receive treatment to stop. But to abuse drugs to the extend of raping, and then beg for help......

I really can't see why anyone would defend this this... yes i say it again BEAST.

are you even aware of factors which play a huge role in drug addictions? You think this person woke up one day and thought "hey, why should not I get addicted to drugs?" No they are not weak. No they do not have shallow character.

Socioeconomic, cultural, genetic, environmental, all sorts of factors play a role in who gets addicted and who does not. Addicted people need help, not condemnation. Just because you are not addicted, it does not mean you have a God-given right to call all those addicted people to have "weak character." Actually, when these addicted people are treated, sometimes they go on to develop stronger character than your holier-than-thou crackpots.

[Mikayeel]

^

Akhee I am quite aware of the factors involved. And i do feel some sort of sympathy for drug users, and especially if they want to receive help. But that sympathy stops the moment they decide to 'rape' or commit a crime or equal magnitude.

Then they are as liable as much any one else. There is no point beating around the bush, at the end of the day by definition it was their CHOICE to start. Like brother Ramadhan said, if u intoxicate your self and then commit a crime. Then your accountable for it.

So instead of trying to find more reasons to protect a drug abusing raper, I rather look at the daughter. Who is much worse of. May Allah make it easy for her. And punish her low life dad accordingly! Ameen ya rab.

[Riana17]

Drunk or not, they should give him millions of lashes before cutting his head in Public

[CosmicPathos]

^

Akhee I am quite aware of the factors involved. And i do feel some sort of sympathy for drug users, and especially if they want to receive help. But that sympathy stops the moment they decide to 'rape' or commit a crime or equal magnitude.

Then they are as liable as much any one else. There is no point beating around the bush, at the end of the day by definition it was their CHOICE to start. Like brother Ramadhan said, if u intoxicate your self and then commit a crime. Then your accountable for it.

So instead of trying to find more reasons to protect a drug abusing raper, I rather look at the daughter. Who is much worse of. May Allah make it easy for her. And punish her low life dad accordingly! Ameen ya rab.

logical fallacy. People with psychiatric illness never "decide" to commit crimes.

the second bold part, that applies to those who are not addicts. So yes, if a girl drinks socially and after that sleeps with the man, then yes, cut her head off as you suggest. But if someone is addicted, has mental illness, does not differentiate right from wrong, there is no "sin" upon them. Addicted people never "choose" to intoxicate themselves.

[CosmicPathos]

Drunk or not, they should give him millions of lashes before cutting his head in Public

I do not think cutting off the head of rapist is Islamic punishment. It seems to be stoning to death. And that of a person who is mentally sane, does know that rape is wrong etc. Many people, due to mental illnesses do not know that rape is wrong. Even I would not be able to know rationally if rape is really wrong or not if I did not believe in a God since in absence of God everything would seem to be at war with me.

[attica]

To reply to an earlier question, people generally plead guilty in the hope of getting a lighter sentence, which they sometimes do and sometimes don't, at least that's the way it is in most European countries. I don't know how that works in a Sharia context.
I know that in America, death sentences are mostly given to people who are too poor and uneducated to get themselves a good enough lawyer or defend themselves properly. The wealthy businessman type who trades in weapons does not get a death penalty but the poor, uneducated guy who kills someone in a bar brawl does get it.
Do you know if there exist any statistics showing death penalties by social/economic class in Saudi? I bet you won't see many wealthy oil sheik types in those statistics! The rich always look after themselves and it is ultimately they who control the laws of a country. I do not want such rich BEASTS (for want of a better word) to have the power to hand out the death penalty.

[Ansariyah]

Saudi is a sick country, I remember a couple of years back they beheaded 6 immigrant young boys for stealing food. And they lash this guy and let him live.

There's no justice in Saudi! The relatives of that girl should personally punish that man.

[esperanza]

saudi is not a sick country..people are not beheaded for steAling.. DO YOU HAVE A LINK FOR THAT STORY
and as for rich and poor,,where mudrer or rape takes place there is no exception

[ardianto]

The court in the holy city of Mecca found the man guilty of raping his teenage daughter for seven years while under the influence of drugs.

What drug is it and why he consumed this drug ?

Drug that given by doctor to someone who under medicine will not give bad effect like this is if the patient consume the drug follow the doctor instruction. But if the drug is used not under instruction from doctor, it can be turn into narcotic or psychotropic.

This man raped his daughter after he used drug. But actually, he would not rape his daughter if he never had intention to rape his daughter before. He had this intention, but he was afraid to carry out his intention, and he always able to control himself.

But drug made him lost his self control. Yes, this is the effect of drug.

We cannot say this man is insane. He is sane, because insane person never use drug. We cannot say drug made him have intention to rape his daughter. He had intention to rape his daughter before he use that drug. Drug is just something that made him dare to implement his bad intention.

[islamica]

At least I can say Alhamdulillah for Islam and the Shariah, I don't have to worry about the crackpots sitting here defending their fellow losers over the suffering of the victim in their own pathetic little world of reasoning and justice.

[CosmicPathos]

At least I can say Alhamdulillah for Islam and the Shariah, I don't have to worry about the crackpots sitting here defending their fellow losers over the suffering of the victim in their own pathetic little world of reasoning and justice.

I am also glad that Sharia exists. If this man is really insane, then Sharia will protect his life and that of his daughter from blood thirsty irrational masses that you seem to be a part of. :) Let me ask, "pious" men, how many of you are willing to marry a raped girl like this?

Blood thirsty masses that suggest the relatives should personally kill the man. Or that the guy who supplied drugs to this man should not be punished but lets kill this man who is poor, has no protection, easily caught. Lets not kill the thousands of kufaar who have killed millions of Muslims, but lets kill an easy prey, who we are not sure was insane or not, raped her daughter under influence of drugs. Maybe someone forced those drugs into him. Hudood punishment are applied when there is NOT A SINGLE SHRED OF REASONABLE DOUBT about the criminal's involvement. TONS of question arise after reading this story.

[Rhubarb Tart]

most of the above are emotional responses. The man committed a heinous crime, no denying. But he was under influence of drugs. Was he addicted to drugs? You do know that people who are addicted to drugs are sick and need professional help? Not all but many. Druggies are humans. They need help. No, they are not evils who should be castrated. Physicians have responsibility towards this class of humanity. If this guy was addicted to drugs, and was committing crimes, Islamically he is not considered "sane." Wallahu Aalim. Yes, what he did was a crime, and due punishment should be given after the man's condition has been judged properly. Moreover, in a godless world, there is nothing wrong with rape. More so in the context of biological evolution.

I am sure YOU would writing the same rubbish above IF your mother was RAPED by this man? Yeah, that is BIG "if". The girl is the one that will need help for the rest of her life. Imagine your own father rapes you? do you think SHE will have sound mind after this? Do you think she is able to look in the mirror without thinking about what her own flesh and blood did to her!!!

And if he knew drugs cause to hurt others and behave in way that is anti- social and yet he still continued to take drug make him liable for his action.

durg or no drug!!! he should be hanged!

[CosmicPathos]

I am sure YOU would writing the same rubbish above IF your mother was RAPED by this man? Yeah, that is BIG "if". The girl is the one that will need help for the rest of her life. Imagine your own father rapes you? do you think SHE will have sound mind after this? Do you think she is able to look in the mirror without thinking about what her own flesh and blood did to her!!!

And if he knew drugs cause to hurt others and behave in way that is anti- social and yet he still continued to take drug make him liable for his action.

durg or no drug!!! he should be hanged!

Yea if she is reasonable and mentally rational, then she should be able to accept that her father was psychologically ill and raped her. If he had not been mentally ill, he wont have raped her. She should grow up rationally and learn to accept it was not her father's fault, once it is proven he was insane. And if he was sane then well he should be punished. As for her living whole life like that, well its a traumatic experience and she should be provided some sort of psychological counseling. But no one can force her to help herself. She should grow up and move on, everyone in life goes through different sort of traumatic experiences. Its just not her alone.

"durg or no drug!!! he should be hanged". Sorry, Sharia does not cater to your blood thirsty fantasies involving men!

[Muhammad]

:sl:

Punishment in Islam is the responsibility of the person in authority and is based upon Islamic principles and guidelines, where there is a clear process of ascertaining the facts and deciding on a suitable penalty based upon the laws of the Shariah. It is not for lay people to carry out. There is no benefit in speculating further over this story and getting into needless disputes.

Thread closed.