Define shirk to me please?

[anonymous]

Assalomu Alaykum,

I am very sorry to ask such a question again, but I feel like I don't know much about shirk and I want to expand my knowledge.

When is shirk counted? When you think of shirk thoughts? When it passes by your mind? When you believe it and leave Islam?

I have asked many people and they all say the same thing, "when one associates partners with Allah(SWT)." I know that, but what about the questions above?^

Jazakhallah Khair.

[جوري]

when you associate partners with God..
something as innocent as using a talisman to ward off evil is a form of shirk, or someone calling ya Ali instead of ya Allah is shirk.. and Allah swt knows best..

:w:

[ardianto]

:sl:

When is shirk counted? When you think of shirk thoughts? When it passes by your mind? When you believe it and leave Islam?

This is not a question that can easily answered by lay Muslims. Ask scholar or Islamic teacher near you.

[جوري]

This is a question that every Muslim should know.. and there are loads of books on types of shirk whether shirk akbar or shirk asghar.. Yes there are matters where it is important to ask a scholar. But I'd be worried if something as simple as one of the basic principals of Islam is that elusive ...

:w:

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[MustafaMc]

Is not praying to be seen and praised by others a form of shirk?

[جوري]

Shirk (Polytheism)

Polytheism is a belief in and worship of many deities. Islam considers shirk illogical and totally unacceptable when referring to deity.
If there were in the heavens and the earth other gods beside Allah, there would be confusions in both (heaven and earth) but glory be to Allah, the Lord of ,the throne; high is He above what they attribute to Him. (Al Anbiya:22)
, , As the verse above makes very clear, the order of the universe, the ecological balance and the oneness of the Creator is more logical than many gods and indeed several wills and authorities.
In Islam, shirk is the greatest sin. It is the only sin that cannot be forgiven by Allah (s.w.t.) on the Day of Judgment. As said in the Qur'an:
Verily, Allah forgives not that rivals should be set up in the worship with Him. He forgives save that (anything else) to whom He pleases and whoever set up rivals with Allah he has indeed done a tremendous sin. (Al Nisa:48)
Why does shirk occupy such a serious position in Islam?
Several of the main reasons are:
1. Shirk causes the greatest downfall of human status and dignity
Man is the best creation of Allah (s.w.t.), created in 'the highest of forms' (Al Tin:4). He is the khalifatul fir ardh [the vicegerent of Allah (s.w.t.)]. He falls 'to the lowest of the low' (Al Tin:5) when he takes any other creation of Allah (s.w.t.) as deities or gods.
Turn unto Allah (only), not ascribing partners unto Him, for whoso ascribes partners unto Allah, it is as if he had fallen from the sky and the birds had snatched him or the wind had blown him to a far off place. (Al Hajj:31)
2. Shirk is the root of evil and superstition
It is because of shirk that man can believe in the powers of jinn, spirits and particular human beings. Some believe that they can predict future events or cause an event to occur or not to occur. All these can give rise to various forms of evil or ignorant practices.
3. Shirk is tyranny and injustice
An injustice is to withhold someone's rights or treat someone in an unfair manner. In praising and worshipping deities that have no power whatsoever to control his life, man forgets Allah's (s.w.t.) sole right to be worshipped. He ignores his Creator, Who had given him his life and thus is ungrateful and unjust to Allah (s.w.t.).
When Luqman said to his son while advising him "Oh my son! Do not ascribe partners to Allah. Indeed shirk is a great injustice." (Luqman:13)
4. Shirk is the cause of anxiety and fear
Because the mushrik believes in the powers of his various deities, he is always living in constant fear, whereas the only one to be feared is Allah (s.w.t.), as all other things are dependent upon Him.
We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve because they ascribe partners unto Allah for which no warrant has been revealed. (Al Nisa:151)
5. Shirk denies rewards in the hereafter
For those who associate partners with Allah (s.w.t.), heaven has been made haram for them.
Indeed they do blaspheme those who say that Allah is Jesus, the son of Mary, but Jesus said "O children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord". Whoever joins other gods with Allah, Allah will forbid him heaven and the fire will be his abode. (Al Maidah:72)
FORMS OF SHIRK
There are two forms of shirk. One is known as shirk akbar and another as shirk asghar.
Shirk akbar is a 'major' act of shirk that cannot be forgiven by Allah (s.w.t.) and whoever dies while committing it will not be able to enter Jannah.
Shirk asghar are 'minor', more unnoticeable acts of shirk that, if done continuously, might take one 'out of' iman.
SHIRK AKBAR
There are two kinds of shirk akbar -
1. Shirk akbar jali (clear)
This type of shirk akbar is to worship a god or several gods besides Allah (s.w.t.). These 'gods' can be in any kind of form, whether cosmic objects, animals, spirits, jinn or human beings such as priests, kings or rulers.
2. Shirk akbar khafi (subtle)
These types of major shirk include:
* when one prays or supplicates to something other than Allah (s.w.t.)
For example: pious ancestors, dead persons, saints etc. Some say that praying or supplicating to them does not necessarily mean worshipping them. However, Islam stresses that praying or supplicating to something or someone is actually worshipping. (Refer to Tafsir Al Mu'minum:60)
* when one takes a lawgiver or lawmaker other than Allah
This includes all kinds of laws governing human life. The right to make something halal or haram, or to judge in human affairs belongs solely to Allah (s.w.t.). This pertains to both 'religious' and 'secular' in life in Islam. According to Islam, obeying someone while disobeying Allah (s.w.t.), even in the realm of mundane life, is like worshipping it.
SHIRK ASGHAR
There are many forms of shirk asghar or minor shirk. The term 'minor' here does not mean that they are not as grave or serious. Rather it means that these forms of shirk are more inconspicuous and unnoticeable compared to the others.
This form of shirk has been described by the Prophet (s.a.w.s.):
Shirk in the Muslim nation is more inconspicuous than the creeping of the black ant on a black rock in the pitch darkness of the night.
Hence, Muslims should shun and guard themselves very carefully from these kinds of shirk because the most 'minor' shirk may incur a heavier penalty than the most serious sin in Islam. Committing or practicing any act of shirk, whether major or minor, can make one's deeds unacceptable by Allah (s.w.t.).
Common forms of shirk asghar:
* to swear with names other than Allah
This was a common practice of the Arabs during the Prophet's (s.a.w.s.) time. They used to swear with the Ka'aba's name, with a pious ancestor's name, or more commonly, with the names of the idols they worshipped, e.g. Al-Latta, Az-Uzza etc. This is shirk because indirectly it gives some recognition of power or glorification to the being named. Says the Prophet (s.a.w.s.):
Whoever swears with other than Allah, he has committed an act of shirk and kufr.
* to adorn something that is believed to be a form of 'protection from misfortune'
Again, this was a common practice of the early Arabs and is to some extent still prevalent today. Wearing certain bangles, necklaces and amulets was believed to be able to weaken jinn or evil spirits or protect oneself from 'al-ain', misfortune etc. From Imam Ahmad, narrated by Umran bin Hussain:
Once the Prophet (s.a.w.s.) saw a man wearing a yellow bangle and asked him, "What is this?" The man answered, "It is al-wahinah (that which weakens)." The Prophet (s.a.w.s.) said, "Take it off! Verily it will not increase you in anything, except sickness and if you die adorning it, no happiness will come to you forever."
This emphasis and serious attention given by the Prophet (s.a.w.s.) shows the need to shun all forms of shirk and close all doors that might lead to it.
to practice, involve or believe in any form of sihir (sorcery) including charms, incantations, astrology etc.
This is stated in a Hadith:
There are three kinds of people that will not enter paradise: the drinker, the one who acknowledges sorcery and the one who breaks silaturahim (kinship). (Ahmad and Ibn Habban)
Astrology is said to be part of this because of the Hadith:
Whoever partakes in one part of astrology (the art of the stars), verily he has partaken in sorcery. (Abu Dawood)
This, however, does not include using the stars in navigation, traveling, etc.
* to believe in 'fortune-telling'
From a Hadith by Muslim, the Prophet (s.a.w.s.) once said:
Whoever approaches a fortune-teller, inquires him/her and acknowledges him/her, his prayers will not be accepted for forty days.
A Hadith by Abu Dawood relates:
Whoever approaches a fortune-teller and acknowledges him/her that person has committed kufr to revelation from Allah.
* to believe in evil omens
This happens when a person intends to do something, but decides not to do it because of experiencing or 'seeing' certain evil signs or omens. Says the Prophet (s.a.w.s.):
"Whoever cancels one's intention to do something because of attiyarah (an evil omen), that one has committed shirk". The companions asked, "What is its kafarah (penalty for repentance)?" The Prophet (s.a.w.s.) answered, saying, "O Allah, there is no good except from You and there is no misfortune except from You. Indeed, there is no god but You". (Imam Ahmad)
* to have riya
This means to perform acts or to show off in order to gain praise or fame, or for worldly purposes.
* to have no redha
This implies being inwardly dissatisfied with an inevitable condition that has been ordained for one by Allah (s.w.t.); to continuously lament that if one had not done such and such a thing, one would have had a better result.
* to be excessive in one's reverence, respect and 'glorification' of prophets, pious leaders, sheikhs or imams
This has brought to the practice of rituals and ceremonies in glorification of these people and the act of beautifying, building upon, lighting up and even worshipping their graves.
* to use ambiguous words that might involve shirk
This includes phrases like 'In the name of Allah and the name of so and so' (e.g. a leader), or 'if it was not for so and so', or to use a name that is exclusively Allah's (s.w.t.) in naming something or even to curse Allah's creation.
Belief in monotheism and purification of one's servitude to Allah (s.w.t.) can be achieved by:
* not worshipping anything or anyone other than Allah (s.w.t.) nor glorifying something or someone as one glorifies Allah (s.w.t.)
All that is worshipped and glorified other than Allah (s.w.t.) should be 'dethroned'. From the Qur'an:
That we do not worship other than Allah and we do not associate Him with any other and we do not make others as gods beside Allah. (Al Imraan:64)
* not taking anything besides Allah (s.w.t.) as one's protector and benefactor and loving it as one should love Allah (s.w.t.)
And amongst man there are those who worship others beside Allah and they love them as they should love Allah. (Al Baqara:165)
The early Arabs, for example, had loved and revered their idols and their leaders and had felt both fear and awe towards them. This kind of love and glorification should be given only to Allah (s.w.t.).
* not taking a lawgiver besides Allah (s.w.t.) nor giving obedience to any other as one obeys Allah (s.w.t.)
Verily, the decider for all human affairs should be Allah (s.w.t.). he alone has the best knowledge about His creation; has the deepest love for them and has full knowledge of what is right and wrong, good and evil.
The Qur'an has stated that whoever judges with other than Allah (s.w.t.) and His Prophet (s.a.w.s.) has actually fallen out of Iman into obedience to shaytan. (See Al Nisa:60-61)
We must think and realize that there are many traps in our society which could lead us to all forms of shirk.
As Muslims, we must also be careful not to follow the ways of the non-believers.
We must lead our lives as true Muslims, following Islam as correctly as we can, being conscious of these traps of shirk that the world invites us to.
REFERENCE:
Yusof Qardawi The Meaning of Tawheed (Malay translation by Pustaka Salam) 1987

http://www.missionislam.com/knowledge/Shirk.htm

[IslamicRevival]

This issue is far more complex then meets the eye. We cant just say wearing a Taweez (Talisman) or saying Ya Ali is Shirk. As a layman, I disagree with both statements as its not clear cut.

To the original poster..You need to see a Scholar

[MustafaMc]

This issue is far more complex then meets the eye. We cant just say wearing a Taweez (Talisman) or saying Ya Ali is Shirk. As a layman, I disagree with both statements as its not clear cut.

From wikipedia, "Ya Ali is mostly used as a request for strength in the phrase Ya Ali Madad (یا علی مدد, Ali, help!) because he is and was one of the strongest bravest chivlarous warrior that fought with the prophet." This reminds me of a common Christian saying, "Jesus, help me!" which reeks of shirk to me.

Do you have evidence that wearing a talisman with the intention of seeking protection (such as from jinn) is a practiced based on the Quran or sunnah?

[Insaanah]

We cant just say wearing a Taweez (Talisman) or saying Ya Ali is Shirk. As a layman, I disagree with both statements as its not clear cut.

Uqbah Ibn Aamir reported that when a group of ten men came to the Prophet :saws:, he only accepted the oath of allegience from nine. They asked, "O Messenger of Allah, why did you take the covenant from nine of us and refuse this man?" The Prophet :saws: answered, "Verily, he has a talisman on him." The man then put his hand in his cloak, pulled out the talisman and broke it. When the Prophet :saws: finished taking the oath from him, he turned and said, "Whoever wears a talisman has committed shirk!" (at-Tirmidhi, Ahmad)

That is very clear cut.

Uqbah ibn Aamir reported that the Prophet :saws: once said, "May Allah cause failure and unrest to whoever wears a talisman or puts it on others." (Ahmad, al-Haakim)

Amongst Muslims, shirk is manifested in the belief of some, that the souls of saints and other righteous humans can affect the affairs of the world, even after their deaths. Their souls, it is believed, can fulfil one's needs, remove calamities and aid whoever calls them, such as the invoking of Ali by the shias with "Ya Ali, madad" (O Ali, help!). This is assigning to human souls Allah's exclusive ability to cause events which only He can cause. Some invoke the dead as intercessors to convey one's du3a to Allah, and some invoke them thinking they can hear them.

This is clear shirk.

And Allah knows best in all matters.

[IslamicRevival]

So by your logic, Saying Ya Nabi is Shirk also? ^o)
The hadith regarding the Talisman is clear cut..

Allah Knows best

[جوري]

those aren't our definitions but why would you want to call out to the nabi? he has passed away Allah yer7amo.. he can do nothing for you..

[MustafaMc]

those aren't our definitions but why would you want to call out to the nabi? he has passed away Allah yer7amo.. he can do nothing for you..

Your post reminded me of this hadith where Prophet Muhammad's (saaws) uncle was asked to make dua for rain as the Prophet (saaws) had already passed away. Please, correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that we can ask Allah (swt) to grant Muhammad (saaws) the station of intercession on Judgment Day for those of us whose deeds are light. My understanding is that we don't ask for help from anyone from the ghaib other than Allah (swt).

Volume 2, Book 17, Number 123: Whenever drought threatened them, 'Umar bin Al-Khattab, used to ask Al-Abbas bin 'Abdul Muttalib to invoke Allah for rain. He used to say, "O Allah! We used to ask our Prophet to invoke You for rain, and You would bless us with rain, and now we ask his uncle to invoke You for rain. O Allah ! Bless us with rain." And so it would rain.

[جوري]

Your post reminded me of this hadith where Prophet Muhammad's (saaws) uncle was asked to make dua for rain as the Prophet (saaws) had already passed away. Please, correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that we can ask Allah (swt) to grant Muhammad (saaws) the station of intercession on Judgment Day for those of us whose deeds are light. My understanding is that we don't ask for help from anyone from the ghaib other than Allah (swt).

Volume 2, Book 17, Number 123: Whenever drought threatened them, 'Umar bin Al-Khattab, used to ask Al-Abbas bin 'Abdul Muttalib to invoke Allah for rain. He used to say, "O Allah! We used to ask our Prophet to invoke You for rain, and You would bless us with rain, and now we ask his uncle to invoke You for rain. O Allah ! Bless us with rain." And so it would rain.

The prophet (PBUH) was taught a special du3a and he saved it to use to intercede for us on the day of recompense .. I have posted a thread about that here insha'Allah I'll look for it as I probably unsubscribed sometime back..

:w:

[IslamicRevival]

why would you want to call out to the nabi? he has passed away Allah yer7amo.. he can do nothing for you..

I am deeply offended by your post.



I dont agree with the Sheikh on many issues but i do on this one.

[جوري]

I am deeply offended by your post.

in what way is my post offensive and before I ask any more questions are you Sunni?

:w:

[Insaanah]

I am deeply offended by your post.

Verily, you (O Muhammad SAW) will die and verily, they (too) will die. (39:30)

“Muhammad is no more than a Messenger, and indeed (many) Messengers have passed away before him. If he dies or is killed, will you then turn back on your heels (as disbelievers)?” (3:144)

“And We granted not to any human being immortality before you (O Muhammad); then if you die, would they live forever? (21:34)

Abu Bakr (may Allaah be pleased with him) said, in his speech after the Prophet :saws: had died, “Whoever used to worship Muhammad, Muhammad has died, but whoever used to worship Allaah, Allaah is Alive and will never die.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari).

I am not sure what was offensive about the post...

If it wasn't that the Prophet :saws: has indeed passed away, which is a fact, perhaps the bit where it stated he cannot help you now if you call on him, which is also a fact?

I didn't watch the video before, and only watched it now. For those that haven't watched it, he uses a hadith out of context and applies it erroneously to the dead, to try to support his view that one can ask the Prophet :saws: directly in ones du'as, providing that one keeps in mind that Allah is the ultimate giver, and that asking the Prophet :saws: directly is asking an intermediator, and that there is nothing wrong with that, and in your du'a you can address the the Prophet :saws: directly, as well as Allah. Furthermore he alleges that ibn Taymiyyah agrees with such practices.

His views are quite similar to those of Catholics, who pray to God through their saints, using them as intermediaries, as they think their prayer has more of a chance of being accepted by God. Despite this, Catholics say that they give honour and respect to saints and ask them to intercede/intermediate between them and God and that Divine worship is offered only to God and never to saints. Muslims who hold these views also say the same thing.

One of the beauties of Islam, is that we pray directly to God, with no intermediaries.

One can ask a pious living person to make du'a, as people did at the time of the Prophet :saws: and they asked him to make du'a, however one CANNOT ask dead people, regardless of who they were, and how pious they were, to intermediate between yourself and Allah. He fails to make the distinction between the living and the dead, and has used hadeeth about asking living people to make du'a, and applied it to the dead, saying that you can ask them directly. This is faulty, dangerous and erroneous methodology.

Indeed the Qur'an speaks clearly against this:

Is it not to Allah that sincere devotion is due? And those who choose Awliya beside Him (say): We worship them only that they may bring us near unto Allah. Lo! Allah will judge between them concerning that wherein they differ. Lo! Allah guideth not him who is a liar, an ingrate. (39:3)

They worship besides Allah that which neither hurteth them nor profiteth them, and they say: These are our intercessors with Allah. Say: Would ye inform Allah of (something) that He knoweth not in the heavens or in the earth? Praised be He and high exalted above all that ye associate (with Him). (10:18)

Allah calls them mushriks even though they are saying that they simply want to come close to Allah and have an intercessor to Him:

And most of them believe not in Allah except while they associate others with Him. (12:106)

This is what Allah tells the prophet :saws: to say in the Qur'an:

Say, "I hold not for myself [the power of] benefit or harm, except what Allah has willed. And if I knew the unseen, I could have acquired much wealth, and no harm would have touched me. I am not except a warner and a bringer of good tidings to a people who believe." (7:188)

If the Prophet :saws: could not benefit anyone in this life, he cannot benefit anyone that calls on him or invokes him after his death.

He has also made a selective and thus out of context quote from ibn Taymiyyah to say that he approved of such practices, which is completely untrue. In fact ibn Taymiyyah said that "[tawassul with the status of the prophet is incorrect] despite the fact that the status of the Prophet :saws: is greater than the status of all the prophets and messengers. (al Halabi, p95)

Ibn Taymiyyah was talking about living people, and asking pious people to make dua, which was the practice of the salaf, not asking of the dead, which Tahir ul Qadri tried to imply in the video.

I dont agree with the Sheikh on many issues but i do on this one.

I've tried to keep this post brief, but he is clearly against the Qur'an and hadeeth on this one.

The belief that any deceased person gives any help or assistance or intermediation is a futile and false belief, and seeking for such help from them is to call upon others besides Allaah for aid, and this is one of the types of Major Shirk, and we seek Allaah’s refuge from that.

I fear for this man, and the people who take their deen from him, seeing as he has written a book called Kitaab al Tawheed.

Please do not be misguided into performing the biggest sin of all.

This is meant with the best of concern and intention.

:sl:

[MustafaMc]

Most thorough and amzing reply, masha'Allah. I agree completely with what you wrote.

[Abz2000]

Do the Unbelievers think that they can take My servants as protectors besides Me?
Verily We have prepared Hell for the Unbelievers for (their) entertainment.
Quran 18:102

Say: "I am but a man like yourselves, (but) the inspiration has come to me, that your God is one God.
whoever expects to meet his Lord, let him work righteousness, and, in the worship of his Lord, admit no one as partner.
Quran 18:110

[IslamicRevival]

Each to their own. You follow your interpretation, ill follow mine.

[Insaanah]

Each to their own. You follow your interpretation,

No.

As has been pointed out to you when you made a similar comment on the previous page, this is not our interpretation, in fact it is not an interpretation at all. It is what Allah has clearly commanded, what His Prophet :saws: taught, the practice of the sahaabah (may Allah be pleased with them), and it's what's ordered in the Qur'an and in the sunnah.

What has been suggested in the video, is what Allah has clearly warned against in the Qur'an, as per the ayaat, what the Prophet :saws: warned against.

Even when non-Muslims read the translation of the Qur'an, the message they come away with, even if they don't agree with it, is that the Islamic belief is that Allah is one, without partner, son, or intermediary, of any kind, and this is what sets Islam apart from other religions. It is clear to everyone, even to non-Muslims.

One important thing to note, is that du'a is a form of worship:

Nu'maan ibn Bashir (may Allah be pleased with him) reports that Rasoolullah :saws: said, "Du'a is worship." He :saws: then recited the verse, "And your Lord says, "Call upon Me; I will respond to you." Indeed, those who disdain My worship will enter Hell [rendered] contemptible." (40:60) [Ahmad, the four sunans, and others, Sahih al-Jaami #3407]

So du'a is one of the forms of worship, and in this verse Allah commands His servants to make du'a to Him, and then said that whoever is too arrogant to do this, to worship Him, will enter hell.

So those who ask the Prophet :saws: in their du'as, and address him and ask of him, are worshipping him, according to Allah, and according to His Prophet :saws:.

This should be awake up call for anyone that thinks that they are not worshipping the Prophet :saws: by addressing him and asking him and making du'a to him. It doesn't matter how much one thinks Allah is the ultimate giver, if you make dua to others along with Him, if you call upon a dead person thinking that will somehow convey your du'a to Allah, you are worshipping them.

In the Qur'an, Allah commands the Prophet :saws: to say: "Say, [O Muhammad], "I make du'a only to my Lord and do not associate with Him anyone." (72:20)

So, to make du'a to anyone else, along with Allah, is pure shirk. Du'a cannot be made to a created being. Allah describes created beings to whom du'a is made in this verse:

If ye invoke them, they will not listen to your call, and if they were to listen, they cannot answer your (prayer). On the Day of Judgment they will reject your "Partnership". and none, (O man!) can tell thee (the Truth) like the One Who is acquainted with all things.(35:14)

And He describes those making such du'a in this verse:

And who is further astray than those who, instead of Allah, pray unto such as hear not their prayer until the Day of Resurrection, and they, of their invocation, are unaware. (46:5)

It is irrelevant what excuses or distorted logic those who make du'a to other than Allah use to try to justify this shirk; the reality of an act is not affected by invented names given to it. Some Muslims who worship saints claim that they are only calling out to 'holy' people, yet they fail to realise that this is exactly what Christians do when they invoke Jesus, the son of Mary (peace be upon them both), and what Catholics do, when they call out to saints.

Others use the concept of tawassul (seeking a means of nearness to Allah) in order to justify making du'a to created objects. This act of theirs is based on their own ignorance, for the Arabs at the time of the Prophet :saws: would worship their idols and other non-idol deities with the exact same excuse - that they were only trying to come closer to Allah - and yet, despite this excuse, Allah considered them to be committing shirk. This is because the pure concept of the Oneness of Allah (Taweed) in Islam does not allow for any intermediaries between man and Allah when it comes to the worship of Allah. Worship is a right that is due only to Allah, and it is shirk to divert any act of worship to other than Allah. No matter what means a person seeks to use to justify calling out to other than Allah, the fact should be clear to everyone that to make du'a to a dead person, an angel, a prophet, or to a rock or stone, or any deity other than Allah, is the essence of shirk, concerning which there is no difference of opinion amongst Muslim scholars. This is the worst type of shirk because it is directing one of the the greatest acts of worship to other than Allah.

There are no authentic narrations that support the invoking of the dead or this type of so-called tawaasul, and had the first three generations considered it permissible, they would have been the first to do it. For no people loved the Prophet :saws: more than them, yet they didn't do it, even when in dire need. That, along with the many verses and ahadeeth against it, constitute every type of proof one could need, about it's impermissibility.

ill follow mine.

Follow the Qur'an and sunnah, follow Allah and His Prophet :saws:, not some misguided "scholar".

Please do not close your eyes to this. Open your eyes to the reality of what this is, dressed up under a different name.

Please use this as an opportunity to think, reflect and re-consider.

May Allah keep us all on the straight path, and save us from all deviations, ameen.

:sl:

[MustafaMc]

How can anyone dispute what Sister Insaanah has written? Shirk is the unforgiveable sin if one dies in that state that we should be most attentive to guard against. To adhere to misguidance when the Truth has been made clear is not in one's best eternal interest.

[IslamicRevival]

I guess every Scholar who opposes your views are misguided and deviant. You cannot post a Hadith and interprete the way you see fit, it needs to be deciphered and broken down by a learned Scholar (As does every Hadith), everyone will have their own views and maybe you should try accepting mine (Agree to disagree) instead of saying I need to open my eyes to reality and implying im on the wrong path, maybe its you that needs to wake up to reality?

You know, one thing i cannot stand is Muslims who shove their views down other Muslims throats, shouting and screaming Shirk, Bidah at everything and anything. You might think its ok to insult Scholars who have spent their whole life studying Islam but i dont. This' im right, your wrong' attitude really is a disease.

are you Sunni?

:w:

Everyone claims to be a Sunni these days, i am but i prefer to be labelled as a Muslim

[Insaanah]

I guess every Scholar who opposes your views are misguided and deviant.

I will repeat for the third time, this is not my view. This is what the Qur'an clearly says, what the hadeeth says, what Allah has commanded, what his Prophet :saws: said, what the sahaabah practised. This is their view, and this is what I follow, and this is what Muslims are supposed to follow.

You cannot post a Hadith and interprete the way you see fit,

I have made no interpretation. The Prophet :saws: said du'a is worship. If I have interpreted that in any other way, please let me know. On the other hand, Tahir ul Qadri has done what you have just claimed you don't like, i.e. taken a hadeeth about a person asking the prophet :saws: for du'a while the Prophet :saws: was alive, and has erroneously applied that and interpreted it to mean that you can ask from the dead, though the hadeeth says no such thing.

Who is interpreting in a way that they see fit here?

maybe you should try accepting mine (Agree to disagree) instead of saying I need to open my eyes to reality and implying im on the wrong path, maybe its you that needs to wake up to reality?

I cannot accept falsehood, I cannot accept what is clear as day to be shirk, I cannot accept what is against Qur'an and sunnah. I will however, try to warn people against it, as that is our duty.

You know, one thing i cannot stand is Muslims who shove their views down other Muslims throats, shouting and screaming Shirk, Bidah at everything and anything.

Again, it is not my view, but Allah's and the Prophet's :saws:. I do not recall shouting or screaming or shoving things down anyone's throat, merely providing evidence from the Qur'an and authentic ahadeeth for what is unacceptable in Islam, in a clear and firm way.

This' im right, your wrong' attitude really is a disease.

Allah says:

They believe in Allah and the Last Day, and they enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong and hasten to good deeds. And those are among the righteous. (3:114)

We have been told in the Qur'an to enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong. I am saddened if you think that acting on this verse is a disease.

To adhere to misguidance when the Truth has been made clear is not in one's best eternal interest.

I agree, and I hope the brother will come to this realisation.

[MustafaMc]

Quran 9:31 They take their priests and their monks to be their lords in derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One Allah. There is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him).

[Ramadhan]

You might think its ok to insult Scholars who have spent their whole life studying Islam but i dont.

:sl:

Brother, I see that no one in this thread has insulted any scholar.

You cannot post a Hadith and interprete the way you see fit, it needs to be deciphered and broken down by a learned Scholar (As does every Hadith), everyone will have their own views and maybe you should try accepting mine (Agree to disagree)

Can you please post authentic narrations (Qur'an and shahih hadith) where we are allowed to ask from prophet Muhammad (saw) who already passed away?

[Predator]

Does a lack of self confidence = shirk or kufr ?

For example if a person believe he is not competant enough to beat other in a contest

[IslamicRevival]

:sl:
Brother, I see that no one in this thread has insulted any scholar

Calling a Sheikh who has spent his entire life studying Islam a deviant is an insult in my book.

Can you please post authentic narrations (Qur'an and shahih hadith) where we are allowed to ask from prophet Muhammad (saw) who already passed away?

Video posted on page 1, Sheikh mentions Hadith clearly and explains the meaning behind it.. You can interpret it in any which way you want.

Anyway, im done with this thread. I have no authority to post Hadith or verses from the Quran .. Im no Scholar. I simply posted my opinion on this subject and ive said all along, each to their own views.

This short clip sums up my feelings on this matter

[Insaanah]

Please do not be under the illusion or the wrong impression that this is one of those small matters of disagreement among the scholars because it is not. This is huge, with very serious implications. What is being presented here is the very antithesis of what Islam stands for, and what Islam came to abolish, and to establish.

Sure, Muslims sometimes disagree on certain matters where there are two valid opinions, or one of the opinions is stronger, and you agree to disagree or you follow one view while respecting the other person's right to their view and recognising that they're not wrong in what they do.

Du'a is an act of worship, and therefore to make du'a to anyone in addition to Allah, to a dead person, to use them as an intermediary, is a manifestation of associating others in the worship that belongs to Allah exclusively. Shirk is the biggest sin in Islam.

As per brother Ramadan's request, no proof as been presented that what brothers and sisters have said here in this thread, with evidence from Qur'an and ahadeeth, is wrong. The video showed no Qur'anic ayaat or hadeeth where it says one should or can make du'a to the dead.

I agree with Sheikh Hamza that we should vie with each other for virtue. May Allah give us all the tawfeeq to do that, ameen.

To conclude, Allah is my witness that I and the brothers and sisters here tried to convey the message and clarify misconceptions, and if I went about it the wrong way or erred, I hope Allah will forgive me.

[MustafaMc]

I'm out, here's a short clip of Sheikh Hamza Yusuf which sums up my feelings on this matter

I rather liked this short clip by Hamza Yusuf though I don't know much about him.

It seems to me that Sister Insaanah is just pointing out what she considers to be shirk and given the seriousness of this issue, I think we should respect her opinion and the validity of the quotes she has provided. If one is told that a red, glowing coal is too hot to touch, should we say, "This is not a hot coal, but rather just a rock painted red" and then go pick it up with our bare hand? If we pick up the hot coal and get burned, how can we blame the one who warned us not to touch it?

[MustafaMc]

Does a lack of self confidence = shirk or kufr ?

For example if a person believe he is not competant enough to beat other in a contest

Without further clarification of a specific case, I do not see how this can be ascribing partners with Allah (swt).

[Ramadhan]

I think there's some miscommunications in this thread.

It is absolutely clear that we cannot make du'a to the deceased, even if they are prophets (pbut), as qur'an verses presented by sister Insanaah have shown. And hence why we must not say "Ya nabi" because he (saw) has passed away. Although we must continually send salams and shalawat to him (saw).

The problem is that there are disagreements, even among ulamas/scholars, whether we can use tawasul/wasilah in our du'a.

Personally, as I am not knowledgeable, and would rather avoid anything that may weaken my eeman, when I do du'a I'd rather do this:
reciting Al fatihah (and three Quls), and then recite the beautiful attributes of Allah, and then send salams and shalawat to the prophet (saw), and then make du'a to Allah without using tawasul.

I ask my (living) mum to make du'a for me very often though. :)

[Insaanah]

I think there's some miscommunications in this thread.

I sincerely apologise if I have been unclear in any way.

It is absolutely clear that we cannot make du'a to the deceased, even if they are prophets (pbut)

This is what I was trying to get across, and following on from that, this:

If one is told that a red, glowing coal is too hot to touch, should we say, "This is not a hot coal, but rather just a rock painted red" and then go pick it up with our bare hand?

The problem is that there are disagreements, even among ulamas/scholars, whether we can use tawasul/wasilah in our du'a.

Personally, as I am not knowledgeable, and would rather avoid anything that may weaken my eeman, when I do du'a. I'd rather do this:
reciting Al fatihah (and three Quls), and then recite the beautiful attributes of Allah, and then send salams and shalawat to the prophet (saw), and then make du'a to Allah without using tawasul.

I hope it is not out of place to here, to share some excerpts from a book, on which parts of some of my previous posts have been based too:

Tawassul is one of the most important etiquettes of du'a and one of the greatest factors that increase the chance of du'a being accepted.

Unfortunately many people have an incorrect understanding of this concept, and because of it, fall into shirk and innovation.

Linguistically, tawassul means to come closer to an objective and to gain proximity to a desired goal. In Islamic terms, it signifies the act of trying to come closer to Allah through manners that have been prescribed by the Qur'an and the sunnah. In other words, it is a means of seeking nearness to Allah. This concept is referred to in the following verse:

O you who believe! Do your duty to Allah and fear Him. Seek the means of approach to Him, and strive hard in His Cause as much as you can, so that you may be successful. (5:35)

When used in the context of du'a, tawassul takes on a more specific meaning. It then refers to seeking a means of having one's du'a accepted, or increasing the chances of having one's du'a being accepted.

There are a number of ways that are prescribed in the shari'ah for tawassul. These are as follows:

1. Tawassul through Allah's names and attributes.

This is one of the most powerful means of tawassul. For example, saying, "O Allah I ask You by virtue of the fact that all praise belongs to You, that You are the Ever-Living that never dies, the Provider to all, and I ask You by all Your beautiful names that You have named Yourself with, that You.....xyz"

There are many examples of the Prophet :saws: and sahaabah (may Allah be pleased with them) doing this in the sunnah.

2. Tawassul by mentioning Allah's favours

So for example, a person might say "O Allah! You have guided me to Islam, and placed in me a love for knowledge and its people! O Allah! Cause me to increase in this knowledge, and cause me to be amongst the righteous scholars!"

3. Tawassul by mentioning the state one is in

Here one mentions to Allah the dire circumstances one is in, and the desperate need one has for His Mercy and Blessings.

In the Qur'an, there are examples of Prophets Nuh, Zakariyya and Musa (peace be upon them all) doing this.

4. Tawassul through good deeds

One can mentions one's good deeds,so one can say "O Allah! Because of the charity that I gave to so-and-so, out of pleasing You.." or "O Allah! Because of my love for Your religion and love for You and Your prophet.." grant me my du'a.

The Quran is replete with this type of tawassul. In one verse the believers are described as: "Those that say: 'Our Lord! We have believed, so forgive us our sins, and save us from the punishment of the Fire!'" (3:16)

In the above du'a, tawassul is sought because of one's iman in Allah and His religion, and there is no doubt that the greatest good deed that a person can use is his iman in Allah.

This is a great incentive for one to do deeds purely for the sake of Allah, so that one may use them as a means of tawassul when one is in dire need of a du'a being answered.

5. Tawassul through Mentioning the Effect of the Du'a

Tawassul can also be made by attaching the response of the du'a to a good deed or benefit. So for example, a person can say "O Allah! I ask you to increase me in knowledge , so that I may teach my family and relatives" or "O Allah! Increase my wealth so that I can spend it in your way!"

Similarly, Ibrahim (peace be upon him) asked Allah to bless his family (when he left them in a barren valley) with fruits and cause a community of people to live with them, so that they could establish prayer and give thanks to Allah.

6. Tawassul by Asking a Living Person to Make Du'a

You can ask a living person to make du'a on your behalf, if you feel the person is a true and righteous person. So, it is permissible to go to a scholar and say, "O so and so, I ask you to make du'a to Allah that he cure my son from xyz illness". There are examples of this from the sahaabah.

Although it is permissible to ask others to make du'a for oneself, it is better to not do so for personal du'as (This is in contrast to du'as that are related to the benefit of the entire ummah). The book then lists it's reasons as to why.

Other types of tawassul

These types of tawassul mentioned above are the only types sanctioned by the Quran and sunnah. So if a person does tawassul by any other means, he will either fall into shirk or bid'ah.

The most common type of tawassul that is done in our times, and yet is not sanctioned by the Quran and sunnah is tawassul through the status of the prophet :saws:

Without a doubt, the Prophet :saws: is the one single person that Muslims love the most. He is the best of creation, and the most noble of mankind. He is our leader in this world, and on the Day of Judgement, and he is the most righteous of the children of Adam. All of this, however, should not make us raise him above the level Allah Himself chose for His Prophet, and that the Prophet :saws: himself was content with. One only needs to look at the Christians and the consequences that have occurred when they raised Isa ibn Maryam above the status he deserved, to see the dangers of this line of thinking.

With this in mind, tawassul through the Prophet :saws: can be divided into three categories:

1) Through one's love for the Prophet :saws: which comes under tawassul through one's good deeds, and is allowed.

2) Through the prophet's du'a while he was alive, which comes under asking a pious living person to make du'a. However, after the Prophet's :saws:death, it is not possible to use this type of tawassul any more.

3) Through the status of the Prophet :saws: eg O Allah I ask you by the status of the Prophet with you, that you grant me such and such. According to the book, this has not been mentioned in the Quran or sunnah, and there are no authentic narrations from the first three generations of Islam that show that this was practised then. No group of people loved the Prophet :saws: more than the companions, and yet none of them, even when in dire need, performed this type of tawassul, and this is an innovation. (My own note: some see no problem with this type of tawassul)

The source for the above is the book Du'a, The Weapon of the Believer: A treatise on the status and etiquette of du'a in Islam, by Abu Ammaar Yasir Qadhi. It is available to read online here as image pdf rather than text pdf. It is a very good read.

In this work, the author elaborates on the status, importance and etiquette of dua’ in Islam. In the most comprehensive work yet to be written in English on the topic, the author discusses, amongst other matters the excellence and benefits of dua; the types of dua; the pre conditions that are needed in order for a du a to be accepted; the recommended etiquette of performing dua; the timings and situations in which a dua is more likely to be answered; the various factors that aid or prevent a du’a from being accepted; the relationship of dua with the Divine Decree qadr; the wisdom behind a delayed response, and many other relevant topics.

So what is the case of making du'a directly to the Prophet who has passed away? That is not tawassul, but making du'a to and asking of, someone besides Allah, someone who has passed away, and thus in directing your du'a to them you are directing some of your worship to them.

May Allah save us all from approaching and acting on the doubtful, and from misguidance and error. Ameen.

[Ramadhan]

:sl:

Jazakallaahu khayr for explaining different types of tawassul. So it seems I've done du'a with tawassul all the time, and hopefully only the rightful ones.