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SyrianFellow
12-28-2011, 02:18 AM
Hi everyone,

I have been told several times by a few muslims that it is haram to eat meat at fast food restaurants such as the Big Mac at McDonalds or the Meatball Marinara from Subway. For me, growing up in Canada I have always consumed these foods since I was a child. I also know many muslims who also eat meat from fast food chains.

My question is that is this actually haram?
Please answer if you know. I would prefer evidence from the Quran or Hadith though, but opinions are welcomed.

Thank you,
SyrianFellow
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syilla
12-28-2011, 03:06 AM
Assallamualaikum, i think is because of the source of meat. If the meat can be certified halal than i'm sure that is not a problem.

Here in Malaysia the source is from halal source not just the meat...everything need to be from halal source and have to have certain limit of cleanliness of criteria and we even have 'halal and muslim product' certified. so it depends on the surroundings.

Eventhough its halal, some ban Mcd due its link to israel eventhough i'm not sure how they got the royalty from the franchising business.
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SyrianFellow
01-10-2012, 06:43 AM
Thanks for the reply. However in Canada they do not say its Halal, but say its 100% beef. I have been eating it and so has some of my muslim friends. Nevertheless, I have a doubt and not sure what to do.
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Tyrion
01-10-2012, 06:49 AM
Some say it's okay if you're in the west, since they see them as Christian countries and therefore as people of the book. Others try and stick to a Zabihah/Halal diet and only eat meat from halal restaurants or butchers. I personally try to stick to zabihah, but I understand those who eat meat elsewhere (I used to until just recently, for personal reasons :p:). Research the positions and stick to the one you feel comfortable with.
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SyrianFellow
01-10-2012, 07:09 AM
I do have a halal butcher nearby however he doesn't serve fastfood :P . Though the problem is that there aren't any halal restaurants in my city besides one I think, and the next closest would be a 15+ minute drive I think. Not that far, but it just seems easier to eat at the local fast food chain and I only eat out like 3 times a month. Not sure what to stick with, I could just order chicken instead of meat then if its haram. But I don't know if its haram :O
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Dagless
01-10-2012, 07:10 AM
http://islamqa.info/en/ref/88206

You live in a country where it is relatively easy to find out how the meat is slaughtered and by whom. Going on personal experience, you'll most likely find it to be haraam.
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SyrianFellow
01-10-2012, 07:15 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dagless
http://islamqa.info/en/ref/88206

You live in a country where it is relatively easy to find out how the meat is slaughtered and by whom. Going on personal experience, you'll most likely find it to be haraam.

How would I find out how the meat is slaughtered for each restaurant? I googled it and in result there were many different links with different descriptions for each restaurant.
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BlackMamba
01-10-2012, 07:57 AM
This is a good friendly debate between Yasir Qadhi and Yasir Birjas on zabihah meat. I personally think Qadhi has the stronger argument.


http://youtu.be/6f69GD27wDw
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Dagless
01-10-2012, 09:01 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by SyrianFellow
How would I find out how the meat is slaughtered for each restaurant? I googled it and in result there were many different links with different descriptions for each restaurant.
You can write to them or speak to the manager of the particular restaurant. Usually all franchises use the same suppliers. Stuff like that is not private so you should get an answer quickly.
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Abdul-Raouf
01-10-2012, 09:37 AM
In my place there are restaurants..hotels owned by muslims... now for the past 2 years..only there i eat...meat

and in places where they claim halal.. and have halal placards.. where muslims work as well... but are not owned by muslims.. I have stopped eating in those.. recently. Though the muslim workers tell.. yes halal etc.. now a days.. my heart is not allowing me to eat there... so i just stick to sea food alone.

McDonalds or KFC... there are plenty outlets here.. and in some they have the Halal placards... but i have never ever gone to McDonalds or KFC.. dunno why but i dont like to go... any one having such feeling ? I eat a lot.. but have never had that eagerness to go there.
Even in Dominoes/Pizza Corner/Pizza hut.. i stick to veg only...
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Hamza Asadullah
01-16-2012, 01:37 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by SyrianFellow
Hi everyone,

I have been told several times by a few muslims that it is haram to eat meat at fast food restaurants such as the Big Mac at McDonalds or the Meatball Marinara from Subway. For me, growing up in Canada I have always consumed these foods since I was a child. I also know many muslims who also eat meat from fast food chains.

My question is that is this actually haram?
Please answer if you know. I would prefer evidence from the Quran or Hadith though, but opinions are welcomed.

Thank you,
SyrianFellow
:sl:

My brother firstly eating any meat which is not slaughtered using proper Islamic methods of zabiha means that meat is haraam for us to consume. We must be very careful as Muslims to consume halal food as consuming haraam food may cause our deeds and duas to be in vain. We must ensure anything that goes into our stomach is halal, especially when it comes to the meat. Therefore stick to reliable Muslim owned restaurants and takeaways and do not eat meat in non Muslim owned restaurants and takeaways especially if the meat is not halal.

Regarding restaurants owned by non Muslims like Mcdonalds, KFC and burger king etc which state that they sell halal meat then also i would not eat in such places. I have known many people who work in such places and have asked them as well as done a lot of research and the so called "Halal" branches cannot be trusted at all if the source of the meat is truly Halal or not. If they cannot get hold of halal meat then they will get the haraam meat instead to meet demand.

We should even be careful about eating in Muslim owned restaurants and takeaways as many sell meat which has been stunned before slaughter which may mean the animals dies before being slaughtered and that makes consuming the meat haraam. So buying such meat becomes doubtful as we do not know which animal died before slaughter. Therefore one should ask the management before buying the meat whether they stun the animal before slaughter or not. If they buy it from their suppliers then one should ring the suppliers and ask them and they will tell you. It is necessery nowadays to make the effort to make enquiries about the meat we are consuming to ensure it is truly halal. Gone are the days where you can rely on any Muslim to provide you with truly halal meat.

In the UK we have the HMC who are a halal monitoring Committee who have monitors who certify outlets if they meet proper Islamic dhabiha methods of slaughter. You also have one in Canada Called the Halal Monitoring Authority:

http://hma.jucanada.org/

I would contact them and get information from the website. They also have certified outlets which have met their standards.

If you need anymore help or information then please do not hesitate to ask.
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
01-16-2012, 01:44 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tyrion
Some say it's okay if you're in the west, since they see them as Christian countries and therefore as people of the book. Others try and stick to a Zabihah/Halal diet and only eat meat from halal restaurants or butchers. I personally try to stick to zabihah, but I understand those who eat meat elsewhere (I used to until just recently, for personal reasons :p:). Research the positions and stick to the one you feel comfortable with.
Those people who claim that it is acceptable to eat haraam meat sold in a "Christian" country are truly decieving themselves and others. Only the meat of the "true" Christians of the past is accepotable for Muslims because they used to slaughter the animal in accordance with the criterea of the Islamic dhabiha which is to say the name of God before the slaughter and then to cut the jugular vein.

Only then is such meat permissable for Muslims to consume. I hardly think that applies to any Christians nowadays. So therefore it is not permissable to eat any meat except that has been slaughtered correctly in accordance with the Islamic dhabiha.

And Allah knows best in all matters
Reply

Tyrion
01-16-2012, 02:34 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Hamza Asadullah
Those people who claim that it is acceptable to eat haraam meat sold in a "Christian" country are truly decieving themselves and others. Only the meat of the "true" Christians of the past is accepotable for Muslims because they used to slaughter the animal in accordance with the criterea of the Islamic dhabiha which is to say the name of God before the slaughter and cut the jugular vein is permissable for Muslims. I hardly think that applies to any Christians nowadays. So it is not permissable to eat any meat except meat that has been slaughtered correctly in accordance with the Islamic dhabiha.
Stop peddling your stance as the only correct and valid one. In this case, I happen to agree more with the conservative position that you mentioned, but there are many who do not and they have their own reasons. It's unfair and dishonest to present this topic as having one simple and correct answer, which just so happens to be the one you hold...
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MustafaMc
01-16-2012, 02:34 AM
Assalamu alaikum, Brother Hamza, I would agree with you in general regarding meat of Christians; however, kosher meat that is slaughtered according to the Judaic law surely falls under the allowed food of People of the Book. The food of the People of the Book is lawful unto you and yours is lawful unto them. Quran 5:5 Meat of Christians should be avoided as there are no guidelines on slaughtering and they eat lots of swine flesh. They even put ham, bacon and sausage (pig meat) into their vegetables such as green beans, turnip greens, peas, lima beans, cabbage, and salad.

When my wife and I go out to eat, we always buy fish, seafood or vegetarian meals. We do not eat beef of chicken from restaurants, nor do we buy it from local grocery stores and markets. However, my wife recently learned that Butterball brand turkeys are certified halal. A prominent Islamophope, Pamella Gellar, heavily criticized Butterball for their halal turkeys. I travel 150 miles to buy certified halal beef and chicken from a store run by Muslims. I also raise chickens and slaughter them Islamically.

I agree that it is most certainly best to be cautious in this regard.
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Hamza Asadullah
01-16-2012, 02:53 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tyrion

Stop peddling your stance as the only correct and valid one. In this case, I happen to agree more with the conservative position that you mentioned, but there are many who do not and they have their own reasons. It's unfair and dishonest to present this topic as having one simple and correct answer, which just so happens to be the one you hold...
Is there such a stance which accepts that as Muslims we can consume modern day Christian slaughtered meat? If so then present your case....
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Tyrion
01-16-2012, 02:59 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Hamza Asadullah
Is there such a stance which accepts that as Muslims we can consume modern day Christian slaughtered meat? If so then present your case....
Lol, nice try, but no, I'm not going to get into a debate with you. I think you know that there are other opinions out there though, and it's up to the OP to research them and make up his mind. It doesn't help him if members start posting certain opinions or positions as the only accepted view on any given issue, it just confuses people and leads to arguments based in ignorance...
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Hamza Asadullah
01-16-2012, 03:06 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by MustafaMc
Assalamu alaikum, Brother Hamza, I would agree with you in general regarding meat of Christians; however, kosher meat that is slaughtered according to the Judaic law surely falls under the allowed food of People of the Book. The food of the People of the Book is lawful unto you and yours is lawful unto them. Quran 5:5 Meat of Christians should be avoided as there are no guidelines on slaughtering and they eat lots of swine flesh. They even put ham, bacon and sausage (pig meat) into their vegetables such as green beans, turnip greens, peas, lima beans, cabbage, and salad.

When my wife and I go out to eat, we always buy fish, seafood or vegetarian meals. We do not eat beef of chicken from restaurants, nor do we buy it from local grocery stores and markets. However, my wife recently learned that Butterball brand turkeys are certified halal. A prominent Islamophope, Pamella Gellar, heavily criticized Butterball for their halal turkeys. I travel 150 miles to buy certified halal beef and chicken from a store run by Muslims. I also raise chickens and slaughter them Islamically.

I agree that it is most certainly best to be cautious in this regard.
:wa:

Regarding Jewish kosher meat then again the Jews of today are not similar to the Jews at the time of the Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi wasallam) but they are certainly more strict than the Christians of today. But to be really certain that the way they slaughter the animal is in accordance with the correct Islamic dhabiha method then one will need to ask them their particular method of slaughter and what they recite at the time of slaughter in order to ascertain whether or not the meat would be considered halal or not. Consider the following:

Are Kosher products Halal?

This is a question that comes up once in a while. Let us take the time to provide a thorough analysis. In Islam, Halal means ‘lawful’ or ‘permitted’ and refers to all matters of life, not just food. In the same way, haram means ‘unlawful’ or 'prohibited' and refers to all matters of life, not just food. So it is proper to refer to pure foods, marriage to a cousin, having marital relations during the nights of Ramadan, etc. as being Halal. In the same light, it is proper to refer to pork, marriage to your sister or brother, hunting while in the Sacred Precincts or in Pilgrim garb (for Haj or Umrah), shameful deeds, etc. as being haram.

When it comes to meat and poultry, Muslims also use the term Zabiha (Dhabiha) to refer to meat from a Halal animal slaughtered by a Muslim in the prescribed Islamic way. (Meat from haram animals does not become Halal, even if it is slaughtered in the prescribed Islamic way. And a Muslim would never slaughter a haram animal.)

Kosher is a term

◦Islam prohibits all intoxicants, including alcohols, liquors and wines, whereas Judaism regards alcohol and wines as Kosher. Hence Kosher foods may contain alcohol. If they do, they are haram.

◦Gelatin is considered Kosher by many Jews regardless of its source of origin. For Muslims, if gelatin is prepared from swine it is haram. Even if gelatin is prepared from cows that are not Zabiha, many scholars consider it haram.

◦Kosher practice does not require Jews to pronounce the name of God on the animals while slaughtering, but Muslims must pronounce the name of ALLAH on all animals while slaughtering.

There may be other differences between Halal and Kosher that make the Kosher questionable for Muslims to consume.

These differences may seem minor to some. However, indulging in haram is a very serious offense against ALLAH and the punishment may be severe. Consuming alcohol or pork is a clear violation of ALLAH’s commandments and should not be taken lightly. The pronouncement of the name of ALLAH at the time of slaughter is also a major act of worship and obedience. Remembering and pronouncing the name of ALLAH is very dear to Muslims and it is required at the time of slaughter.

And ALLAH, Subhanahu wa ta'ala, knows best.


Source: http://www.ifanca.org/faq/kosher.htm


Is Kosher Meat Halal? Not Really


There are several issues with Kosher:

1. In Judaism, the rules and methods of slaughtering are not open and published. Unlike in Islam, where any adult sane Muslim can slaughter an animal by following the rules prescribed by Shariah, in Judaism only one kind of Rabbi, known as the Sachet, may slaughter Kosher animals. The Sachet is specially trained for this purpose and no other Jew can slaughter an animal.

Although Jews say that they slaughter in the name of God, we do not know what else they say in Hebrew while slaughtering. Their prayers and methods of slaughtering are in the hands of a few people and are not generally known.

2. The Sachet does not say prayers on all animals he slaughters at a time. Instead, he only says prayers on the first and last animals he slaughters. For example, if a Sachet has to slaughter ten cows, he will only say the prayer on the first and tenth cow while slaughtering, saying nothing on the cows in between.

This method of slaughtering is not similar to the method prescribed by Sharia for Hanafi sect, nor is it similar to the practice of Ahle-kitab at the time of our beloved Prophet Mohammed Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallum. Meat slaughtered by Ahlekitab was considered halal because of similarity in the slaughtering method and in the Niya at that time.

These are the reasons why most Ulama do not consider Kosher meat halal.

If a Muslim is not in danger of death, he must avoid eating haram food at any cost. If halal meat is not available, one can eat fish or vegetables or can even go to the slaughter house to slaughter an animal himself. There are many halal food stores online who can ship frozen Zabiha meat or Zabiha meat food products overnight. There is no excuse to eat non-zabiha meat or kosher meat in USA.

Zabiha products can easily be found in a big city like New York City. In addition, there are many Muslim-owned restaurants that serve zabiha meat and there is no excuse to eat Kosher.

Source: http://www.albalagh.net/halal/kosher_meat.shtml
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MustafaMc
01-16-2012, 03:09 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tyrion
I think you know that there are other opinions out there though.
No need for a debate, but I would like to hear what some of the other opinions are and their evidence for it. In expressing opinions on open forums such as this I believe it is best to be conservative. Should we not be cautious of taking the liberal view about things that are not clear?
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Hamza Asadullah
01-16-2012, 03:09 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tyrion

Lol, nice try, but no, I'm not going to get into a debate with you. I think you know that there are other opinions out there though, and it's up to the OP to research them and make up his mind. It doesn't help him if members start posting certain opinions or positions as the only accepted view on any given issue, it just confuses people and leads to arguments based in ignorance...
It seems to me that you are doing the confusing here. If you have not researched the topic then why make assumptions about it? I am not wanting a long debate i just want you to state what other opinions state that it is permissable for Muslims to eat the meat of modern day Christians (Who are most likely athiest or non practising Christians anyway). If you cannot provide proof then it is best not to make baseless assumptions and mislead others.
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MustafaMc
01-16-2012, 03:13 AM
What about Quran 5:5?
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Tyrion
01-16-2012, 03:16 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by MustafaMc
No need for a debate, but I would like to hear what some of the other opinions are and their evidence for it. In expressing opinions on open forums such as this I believe it is best to be conservative. Should we not be cautious of taking the liberal view about things that are not clear?
Sure, I suppose one could think that way, but my only problem was presenting things inaccurately to those who are asking questions. In my mind, presenting only those parts of an issue you happen to believe in is dishonest, and does a disservice to the person who is asking you for help or advice. In my experience, it also tends to lead to many problems and confusion in the future...

For example, Bro Hamza just gave you his view above about how he doesn't believe Kosher is halal. Most learned people I've come across however, and most laypeople DO consider kosher halal, and I think they have good reason to. He holds a rather conservative position (which is by no means the only one), and by presenting only that position as the only correct one he risks confusing the OP and others who don't know better, and could potentially make their situations far more difficult than they need to be. (which in turn could lead to a number of potentially dangerous or damaging issues...)
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Hamza Asadullah
01-16-2012, 03:22 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by MustafaMc
What about Quran 5:5?

The verse in surat al-Ma'ida:


"The food of those who have been given the Book is lawful for you, and your food is lawful for them" (Qur'an 5:5).


This is a general ruling ostensibly pertaining to all their food. Yet this ruling is subject to takhsis, or "restriction" by more specific rulings that prove that certain foods of Ahl al-Kitab, "those who have been given the Book," such as pork, or animals not properly slaughtered, are not lawful for us.

Excerpt taken from: http://www.sunnipath.com/library/Art...R00000083.aspx

In other words all of the foods of the people of the book are permissable for us except those foods which we are restricted from consuming such as foods which are forbidden for us and those animals that have not been slaughtered in the correct manner in accordance to Islamic dhabiha.

In the Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) time the Jews and Christians would slaughter their animals in much the same way as Muslims did. But today is a completely different story.
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Hamza Asadullah
01-16-2012, 03:29 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tyrion


For example, Bro Hamza just gave you his view above about how he doesn't believe Kosher is halal. Most learned people I've come across however, and most laypeople DO consider kosher halal, and I think they have good reason to. He holds a rather conservative position, and by presenting only that position as the only correct one he risks confusing the OP and others who don't know better, and could potentially make their situations far more difficult than it needs to be. (which in turn could lead to a number of issues...)
Actually if you read my post properly i did state that it depends on the method of slaughter employed by the Jew at the time of slaughter. If it comforms with the criterea of Islamic dhabiha then it would be permissable for us to consume. But in order to establish this fact one would need to look into the particular slaughter method employed by the Jew conducting the slaughter.

Again the reason being because the slaughter methods applied by the Jews today are very different to the methods applied by the Jews in the past. Many of them today do not even utter the name of God during slaughter which is one of the most important criterea in Islamic dhabiha.

So when it comes to consuming halal then we should be very careful and we should adopt a conservative view and in this case it is the majority view. What is halal and what is haraam is clear, that which is in between is doubtful and the Prophet (Salallalhu Alaihi Wasallam) told us to keep away from doubtful matters.

And Allah knows best in all matters
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MustafaMc
01-16-2012, 03:31 AM
My opinion is that the middle ground is best and that we should be cautious of making what is haram into halal and likewise be cautious of making what is halal into haram. When in question it is better for one to personally choose the more conservative choice.
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syilla
01-16-2012, 03:33 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Hamza Asadullah
The verse in surat al-Ma'ida:


"The food of those who have been given the Book is lawful for you, and your food is lawful for them" (Qur'an 5:5).


This is a general ruling ostensibly pertaining to all their food. Yet this ruling is subject to takhsis, or "restriction" by more specific rulings that prove that certain foods of Ahl al-Kitab, "those who have been given the Book," such as pork, or animals not properly slaughtered, are not lawful for us.

Excerpt taken from: http://www.sunnipath.com/library/Art...R00000083.aspx

In other words all of their foods are permissable except that foods that are forbidden for us to consume or animals that have not been slaughtered in the correct manner. In the Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) time the Jews and Christians would slaughter their animals in much the same way as Muslims did. But today is a completely different story.
wouldn't it be the same as marrying the people of the books but why i've seen lots of fatwas it is permissible whereas in malaysia is not allowed. lol i'm sorry if off topic but i had to and i don't think i deserve for a new thread. i would not able to answer all the questions.
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Hamza Asadullah
01-16-2012, 03:45 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by syilla
wouldn't it be the same as marrying the people of the books but why i've seen lots of fatwas it is permissible whereas in malaysia is not allowed. lol i'm sorry if off topic but i had to and i don't think i deserve for a new thread. i would not able to answer all the questions.
:sl:

Yes you are correct which is why many scholars have stated that it is not permissable for a man to marry a woman who is just Jewish or Christian by name and not by faith and practise. Clearly the Jewish and Christian women of today are very different from the Jewish and Christian women of the time of the Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasalam).

In order to marry such women then they have to be practising and believing and not athiest as many are nowadays. How many Muslim men of today marry a woman who is just Christian or Jewish just by name? Many do not even believe in God let alone their own religion.

Also one has to ensure that ones children will grow up as Muslims. I know so many Muslims who married non practising Christian girls which ended up in divorce and the children are fed haraam and bought up as non believers. It is truly sad to see.

Sheikh Muhammad Ibn Adam states regarding such marriages:

Women who are Christians and Jews merely by name, and do not really believe in any religion, like a large number of people in the west, cannot be termed as people of the book (ahl al-Kitab). They are atheist in reality and it will not be permissible for Muslim men to marry them.

Therefore, one must first make sure that the woman is truly a believing Christian or Jew, and then consider contracting marriage with them.

Thirdly, it should be remembered that the meaning of the permission of marrying Christian and Jewish women is simply that, if a marriage contract was performed with them, it would be valid according to Islam and the children born out of this wedlock will be considered legitimate.

However, there are various narrations that establish its undesirability. A Muslim man is advised in the Hadith to select a life partner who fully observes the injunctions of Islam, so that she becomes a means of attaining piety. If that is the case, then marrying Christian and Jewish girls would be disliked.

This is the reason why Sayyiduna Umar ibn al-Khattab (Allah be pleased with him) prevented many such marriages in his lifetime because of what he had seen of the corruption that resulted in Iraq and Syria. (See: Muhammad ibn al-Hasan, Kitab al-Athar).

Finally, this permission is only when one is confident that he himself or his children will not be affected by this marriage. In the early days, Muslims were duly equipped with adequate Islamic knowledge and an unshaken commitment towards their religion. As such, there was no risk of the husband being affected by his wife's religion. Rather, the wife would see the glory of Islam, thus enter into the fold of Islam.

Therefore, if a Muslim male is confident that marriage with a Christian or Jewish girl will have no affect on his and his children's Islamic identity and commitment, then there is no bar against such marriages. However, if he is not so confident, he must avoid entering into such marriages.

Source: http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.a...D=2267&CATE=10
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syilla
01-16-2012, 03:54 AM
^^^Jazakakallah khayr for the knowledge shared.

Just thought of sharing before anyone confused regarding stunning.

taken from http://www.halalfoodauthority.co.uk/FAQs.html

Q 3. Does Halal Food Authority allow stunning of birds and animals?

A. Yes, however, one has to be reminded that HFA has always maintained "no stunning to kill".

Captive Bolt Stunning – proscribed – prohibited

Percussion Stunning - proscribed – prohibited

(although above procedures for cattle are allowed by some Ulema's in Africa & Germany)
Gas Stunning – proscribed – prohibited
(although Turkish Ulema's have approved this method for pre-slaughtering of chicken)

Halal Food Authority allows controlled electric stun-with-minuscule amperage, with official Veterinary Surgeon validating that the animal or the birds do not die prior to slaughtering.
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Hamza Asadullah
01-16-2012, 04:26 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by syilla
^^^Jazakakallah khayr for the knowledge shared.

Just thought of sharing before anyone confused regarding stunning.

taken from http://www.halalfoodauthority.co.uk/FAQs.html

Q 3. Does Halal Food Authority allow stunning of birds and animals?

A. Yes, however, one has to be reminded that HFA has always maintained "no stunning to kill".

Captive Bolt Stunning – proscribed – prohibited

Percussion Stunning - proscribed – prohibited

(although above procedures for cattle are allowed by some Ulema's in Africa & Germany)
Gas Stunning – proscribed – prohibited
(although Turkish Ulema's have approved this method for pre-slaughtering of chicken)

Halal Food Authority allows controlled electric stun-with-minuscule amperage, with official Veterinary Surgeon validating that the animal or the birds do not die prior to slaughtering.
HFA are sell outs. I have spoken to them on a number of occassion regarding stunning and they never satisfied by heart at all. They are far too liberal on these matters and do not have scholarly backing for their liberal verdicts regarding stunned animals. I asked them a number of times the same questions and they give the same lame answers. I asked them if an animal dies during stunning, for which there is no guarantee that an animal cannot die because although you state that the electric charge is controlled it is not controlled to the extent that it is impossible to kill the animal. He confirmed yes that is true an animal "may" die during stunning. Then i asked him if the animal dies during stunning then does that make the animal haraam to consume? He confirmed yes that is true. Then i asked him so is it true that when stunning animals during slaughter that there are many animals that do die mixed with many that don't. Then he confirmed yes. Then he knew where i was getting at and he started stuttering and i knew he was cornered on this issue.

Basically because there are animals that died prior to slaughter mixed with animals that didnt, it makes the consumption of such meat "doubtful" and this is the verdict of scholars on this issue. As i have mentioned before the Prophet (Salallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) told us to keep away from doubtful matters because we will never get peace in our hearts. After talking to HFA i never got peace in my heart because they were far too liberal and catered mainly for the modern Muslims and secularist Muslim who have the view that if it says halal then its halal end of. They dont care how it was slaughtered or where it came from.

That is why i turned to HMC (Halal Monitoring committee). They have a board of scholar whom they gain their stance from regarding slaughter methods. They do not accept stunning because stunning cannot be controlled enough to ensure that the animal does not die. After speaking to them just once i immediately had peace and satisfaction in my heart that they were very thorough on this matter and that they also had a lot of scholarly backing in the UK whereas HFA did not. HFA were modernists whereas HMC kept to the proper scholarly view on matters pertaining to halal slaughter. They have monitors across the country who visit certified abbatoires, slaughter houses and food outlets randomly to ensure that those outlets are selling meat which has been slaughtered in accordance with proper Islamic dhabiha.

HFA do not have any monitors at all. Once i asked the guy, if you have no monitors how do you know that the product is truly halal? The guy start stuttering again and had no proper answer. They have got to be the worst representatives for Muslims. I would ask everyone to disregard such an organisation and instead stick to HMC.

So in the UK please refer to HMC. You can find a lot of information on their website and they also have a list of certified butchers and restaurants in the UK:

Halal Monitoring Committee:

http://www.halalmc.co.uk/
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Insaanah
01-18-2012, 03:19 PM
:sl:

Sahih International
And do not eat of that upon which the name of Allah has not been mentioned, for indeed, it is grave disobedience. And indeed do the devils inspire their allies [among men] to dispute with you. And if you were to obey them, indeed, you would be associators [of others with Him]. (6:121)

This is clear. We cannot eat meat upon which the name of Allah has not been mentioned. We are kidding ourselves if we think we are living in practising Christian countries. We live in secular countries, where religion is being restricted to the sphere of the home, not to interfere with any other activities, commercial or otherwise, and atheism is increasingly becoming the norm.

Even practising Christians these days do not take God's name before the slaughter of animals because they consider themselves free of the covenant that bound the Jews and thus are free from following the law, because they say that Jesus (peace be upon him) fulfilled the law for them, and freed them from having to follow it. This is why they do not follow the dietary laws of the Old Testament. Whereas Christians at the time of the Prophet :saws: most likely did follow the law revealed to them by Allah, or something pretty close to it.

So let us not try to convince ourselves that Christians are saying, "In the name of God" before they slaughter each animal (separate issue that they believe that Jesus is God and His son at the same time). Also remember, they could have slaughtered a pig with the same knife or machine that they slaughtered the lamb that somebody considers permissible to eat, and as they would have no segregation, there could be traces of pig blood or meat on the lamb. They also do not drain blood.

I would endorse completely what Brother Hamza has said about the HFA. They even publish their stunning methods on their website and use electric water baths and electric tongs to stun the animals. They should be avoided. The HMC is currently the most reliable halal organisation in the UK.
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