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SN1
01-03-2012, 02:35 PM
Hello there,

I know its been a while, but many of you would have known I had massive problems while I was a Muslim drinking and wife problem not a good combination. To cut the long story short, I said I don't believe in Allah (in argument with her, and I said to her Talaak times) My wife who is a Muslim (she does not live with me) but has started to become relentless in her ways into trying to reconvert me back to Islam. She has gone psyco in her approach trying to convert me back to Islam. But I decided to next week re-convert back to Islam, we are going to do this at the masjid etc.

Basically I want her to come back to me, but she is putting conditions on me, saying I need to convert back to Islam, and that she has to marry someone else temporally, and then divorce and then re-marry me. I am so mad with her right now, since basically she is blaming me for all of this, saying I made the marriage void for becoming atheist.

So I personally don't know all the technical of this but essentially she told me she has to marry another man, sleep with him for some months and then she has to get divorce from this man, and then i have to be converted back to Islam and then she can marry me by re-doing nikah with me. This is the most bizarre and stupid thing I have ever heard. so basically I wanted to know is she telling the truth or lying?

since if it means losing her, then I might as well come back to Islam. She said something about being a bad Muslims is still better then being a kafir.
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Ramadhan
01-03-2012, 02:49 PM
If the talaak was three times, she needs to marry someone else before marrying you. And hence in Islam, marriage and divorce is never laughing matter and never a joke, for even if you say in jest "I divorce you", you have actually divorced your wife. Same thing with marriage.

How was the process of your divorce?
Did you say talaak and then seperated, and then got together again and then talaak again?

Anyway, you both need to go to your nearest scholar or syeikh for advice whether the divorce was actually a three times talaak.


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~ Sabr ~
01-03-2012, 03:19 PM
:salamext:

Sound like a very frustrating situation to be in.

If you go to an Islamic scholar, e.g.your local masjid imam, he will be able to put forth the conditions of divorce, and what happenes after the divorce, et.c However I do know that a Muslims Woman cannot islamically marry or be married to an atheist.

Peace be upon you brother.
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- Qatada -
01-03-2012, 05:29 PM
Originally Posted by SN1
Hello there,

I know its been a while, but many of you would have known I had massive problems while I was a Muslim drinking and wife problem not a good combination. To cut the long story short, I said I don't believe in Allah (in argument with her, and I said to her Talaak times) My wife who is a Muslim (she does not live with me) but has started to become relentless in her ways into trying to reconvert me back to Islam. She has gone psyco in her approach trying to convert me back to Islam. But I decided to next week re-convert back to Islam, we are going to do this at the masjid etc.

Basically I want her to come back to me, but she is putting conditions on me, saying I need to convert back to Islam, and that she has to marry someone else temporally, and then divorce and then re-marry me. I am so mad with her right now, since basically she is blaming me for all of this, saying I made the marriage void for becoming atheist.

So I personally don't know all the technical of this but essentially she told me she has to marry another man, sleep with him for some months and then she has to get divorce from this man, and then i have to be converted back to Islam and then she can marry me by re-doing nikah with me. This is the most bizarre and stupid thing I have ever heard. so basically I wanted to know is she telling the truth or lying?

since if it means losing her, then I might as well come back to Islam. She said something about being a bad Muslims is still better then being a kafir.

SN1, did you say you "don't believe in Allah" out of anger and not wanting to disbelieve? Do you believe in Allah?

If you believe in Allah, then say the shahadah again. And ask a student of knowledge (called Ayman bin khaled) who has access to scholars here: http://ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe about your situation.

If you do not profess belief in Islam, then any marriage to a Muslim won't be recognized. And yes, a sinful Muslim is better than a disbeliever.


So I advise you to say the shahadah again, may Allah help you. Ameen.
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Dagless
01-03-2012, 05:44 PM
You need to talk to a scholar (or 2) before you do anything further. I'm not a scholar but as far as I know saying talaak in anger is not counted, therefore you might be ok. Try and be more careful from now on though.

Read: THIS

Ibn al-Qayyim said:

Anger is of three types:

-1-

That in which the person loses his mind and is not aware of
what he is saying. Divorce does not count as such in this case, and there is
no scholarly difference of opinion concerning that.

-2-

That which is not so intense as to affect a person s
understanding the implications of what he is saying. Inthis case divorce
counts as such.

-3-

That which is intense and strong, but not to the point of
losing his mind completely; however it is so intense that he does not
realize the implication of what he is saying, and he regrets what he did
once the anger passes. This is a matter that is debatable and the view that
suggests that the divorce does not count as such is strong and valid.
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Abz2000
01-03-2012, 05:46 PM
the rule on remarriage and divorce is if you've pronounced 3 divorces over the correct period, and fulfilled the iddah etc,
it prevents people using divorce as a stick to humiliate their wives and also gives them a chance to reconcile.

she doesn't have to remarry if you have't pronounced divorce three times,
this was the practice in the time of the Prophet (pbuh),
it was only made strict in the time of 'Umar (ra) because people were taking advantage of the "three divorce in one go" thing and then later counting it as one.

there is one recorded case i read in sahih Muslim where the Prophet (pbuh) allowed it and it was because the man had apparently caught her in the act of adultery and refused to allow her to complete the iddah,
it was an exceptional case where it was clear there was no chance of reconciliation and only disobedience would take place
possibly even murder.

otherwise the rule was three separate divorce pronouncements over the correct period of time, then remarriage before coming back together.
And Allah (swt) knows best.

source:

The Noble Qur'an - Al Baqarah 2:229-232
The divorce is twice, after that, either you retain her on reasonable terms or release her with kindness. And it is not lawful for you (men) to take back (from your wives) any of your Mahr (bridal money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage) which you have given them, except when both parties fear that they would be unable to keep the limits ordained by Allâh (e.g. to deal with each other on a fair basis). Then if you fear that they would not be able to keep the limits ordained by Allâh, then there is no sin on either of them if she gives back (the Mahr or a part of it) for her Al-Khul' (divorce)[]. These are the limits ordained by Allâh, so do not transgress them. And whoever transgresses the limits ordained by Allâh, then such are the Zâlimûn (wrong-doers, etc.).

O Prophet (SAW)! When you divorce women, divorce them at their Iddah (prescribed periods), and count (accurately) their Iddah (periods ). And fear Allah your Lord (O Muslims), and turn them not out of their (husbands) homes, nor shall they (themselves) leave, except in case they are guilty of some open illegal sexual intercourse. And those are the set limits of Allah. And whosoever transgresses the set limits of Allah, then indeed he has wronged himself. You (the one who divorces his wife) know not, it may be that Allah will afterward bring some new thing to pass (i.e. to return her back to you if that was the first or second divorce).
2 Then when they are about to fulfil their term appointed, either take them back in a good manner or part with them in a good manner. And take for witness two just persons from among you (Muslims). And establish the witness for Allah. That will be an admonition given to him who believes in Allah and the Last Day. And whosoever fears Allah and keeps his duty to Him, He will make a way for him to get out (from every difficulty).
3 And He will provide him from (sources) he never could imagine. And whosoever puts his trust in Allah, then He will suffice him. Verily, Allah will accomplish his purpose. Indeed Allah has set a measure for all things.
4 And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the Iddah (prescribed period), if you have doubts (about their periods), is three months, and for those who have no courses ((i.e. they are still immature) their Iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise, except in case of death) . And for those who are pregnant (whether they are divorced or their husbands are dead), their Iddah (prescribed period) is until they deliver (their burdens), and whosoever fears Allah and keeps his duty to Him, He will make his matter easy for him.
5 That is the Command of Allah, which He has sent down to you, and whosoever fears Allah and keeps his duty to Him, He will remit his sins from him, and will enlarge his reward.
Quran 65:1-5

Book 009, Number 3474:
Abdullah (b. 'Umar) reported that he divorced a wife of his with the pronouncement of one divorce during the period of menstruation. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) commanded him to take her back and keep her until she was purified, and then she entered the period of menses in his (house) for the second time. And he should wait until she was purified of her menses. And then if he would decide to divorce her, he should do so when she was purified before having a sexual intercourse with her; for that was the 'Idda which Allah had commanded for the divorce of women. Ibn Rumh in his narration made this addition: When 'Abdullah was asked about it, he said to one of them: If you have divorced your wife with one pronouncement or two (then you can take her back), for Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) commanded me to do it; but if you have divorced her with three pronouncements, then she is forbidden for you until she married another husband, and you disobeyed Allah in regard to the divorce of your wife what He had commanded you. (Muslim said: The word" one divorce" used by Laith is good.)

Book 009, Number 3481:
Ibn Sirin reported: One who was blameless (as a narrator) narrated to me for twenty years that Ibn 'Umar (Allah be pleased with him) pronounced three divorces to his wife while she was in the state of menses. He was commanded to take her back. I neither blamed them (the narrators) nor recognised the hadith (to be perfectly genuine) until I met Abu Ghallab Yunus b. Jubair al-Bahili and he was very authentic, and he narrated to me that he had asked Ibn 'Umar (Allah be pleased with there) and he narrated it to him that he made one pronouncement of divorce to his wife as she was in the state of menses, but he was commanded to take her back. I said: Was it counted (as one pronouncement)? He said: Why not, was I helpless or foolish?
http://islam.us/hadith/muslim/009.smt.html
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GuestFellow
01-03-2012, 07:04 PM
It is best to see a scholar.
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~Zaria~
01-03-2012, 07:10 PM
Hmmm......

As you can see, you are going to get many, many conflicting points on views here......

I have recently discussed this issue with a sheikh in my area:

According to him - 3 talaaqs are valid if said together, unless it was said in EXTREME anger (where one has lost senses and rational).....not just mild anger.....
And talaaq is still valid if issued at a time when it is impermissible to do so - e.g during a womens menstrual cycle, during a 'clean' period after intercourse - before the next cycle, or if all 3 are issued at once.

In the above scenarios - this is haraam......but: the talaaq is still valid, all 3 of them.

Also, to marry someone else - with the intention of getting divorced soon afterwards (so as to re-marry) - is haraam.

The above is just information imparted to me, by a local sheikh.


My suggestion to you is:

PLEASE contact your local imam/ mufti and seek counsel with him on your individual case.

Else, you likely will get really confused with the different schools of thought here.

Salaam
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SN1
01-03-2012, 09:48 PM
She's already been to the local shaikh who advised that I need to take shahada once more, and that the talaak is valid. **** it, its so ****ing stupid this ****ty rules.
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Galaxy
01-03-2012, 10:11 PM
If you divorced your wife three times already then you cannot get remarried to her unless she gets married to another guy, but she's not allowed to get married to another guy just to remarry you, that is a sin. She may have gotten confused with this rule.

She cannot get married to you because you're not a Muslim and it seems like you only want to come back to Islam to keep your wife, correct me if I'm wrong. I don't see anyone else who wishes to convert to Islam call its rules "****ty". Your wife must really love you to settle with a bad Muslim.
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CosmicPathos
01-03-2012, 10:12 PM
keep in mind the OP is an atheist. Being a kaafir, he cannot remain married to the wife. So it is good that he gave her talaaq!
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Ghazalah
01-03-2012, 11:41 PM
She's already been to the local shaikh who advised that I need to take shahada once more, and that the talaak is valid. **** it, its so ****ing stupid this ****ty rules.
Talaq is valid and she is now no longer your wife and her plan of marrying someone else is strictly haram too, so she shouldn't even think of it.

You have made your decision on your religion and still harbour ill feelings to Islam as evident by referring to Islamic injunctions in the arrogant and disgusting manner that you have just done.

Be honourable and let your wife go. That is best for her. You go your way and she should go hers.
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Perseveranze
01-04-2012, 12:21 AM
Your wife deserves better then you, Muslim or not.

If you're going to be Muslim just for the sake of this marraige, then I wouldn't bother.
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syilla
01-04-2012, 02:21 AM
I would be angry like your wife too :omg:

You should never play with talaq Alhamdulillah islam only let it be three (3) times.
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Abdul-Raouf
01-04-2012, 07:17 AM
Having seen ur previous posts....

Just one suggestion:
Dont blame ur wife.. From ur posts i found the problem was with you and not her. Every word counts in this world.
Ask ALLAH to forgive you. Before pointing fingers on others.. check if your worth to point it.
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~Zaria~
01-04-2012, 07:56 AM
I just want to highlight a few points here, insha Alla


Firstly, once anyone has already sought advise from a sheikh/ ulama, and you have been given a clear answer - you should NOT be looking elsewhere for an answer to the same problem.
This is called 'shopping for a fatwa'......when we are not happy with the ruling made by one.....so we hop from one sheikh to the next, hoping to get the answer that we want to hear.
And this intention is incorrect.

We mould our lives to the teachings of Islam.....and NOT the other way around.


Secondly, it is clear that you are unhappy with certain principles in Islam such as this (perhaps others as well......which is why you have chosen to label yourself an 'atheist' here, yet u wish to take shahada again next week, according to your OP).
--> In this regard, please know that religion is not something that can be taken lightly.

We are speaking about your CREATOR here.
We are not muslims today, and then Christians tomorrow, and atheists the next day.....just because we are displeased with our Lord!
Who are we - the CREATION, complaining about the CREATOR?!

Do you not realise that EVERYTHING in your life - EVERYTHING - from your heart that has just given one more beat....to the air you breath......is ALL thanks to Him?
We can not praise Him enough, when we realise this.


And finally, its understandable why you feel upset about this situation.
You wish to reconcile with your wife, but it is impermissible to do so.

The lesson here is that talaaq is not something that is taken lightly in Islam.
There is a hadith that mentions that when talaaq is uttered - the entire Arsh/ throne of Allah (subhanawata ála) shakes......Can you imagine that?
(admittedly, some say this is a weak narration.....but still, do contemplate on the seriousness of the matter).

Islam dearly wants to keep couples together.
Therefore the 3 talaaq rule.

If it is done correctly - there is great wisdom in it.
Just think about it:
A man utters one talaaq to his wife.
Then she is expected to sit for 3 monthly cycles in iddat at the wedded home.
In this time, she should be beautifying herself, etc.....and insha Allah, in those 3 months - tempers subside, love returns.....and they make up.

They fight again.....2nd talaaq.....2nd cycle of 3 months iddat.....and insha Allah, reunion.

And yet again for a 3rd talaaq.
Thats 9 months of iddat in total......time to make amends and keep the marriage together.

BUT: when talaaq is given together - that is all thrown out the window.
No chance for reconciliation.

And we cannot say that we did not KNOW about the 3 talaaq rule.
You must of known, to have chosen to utter it 3 times.

Does anyone say - 'I marry u, I marry u, I marry u'- 3 times?
No....its not natural.
This 3 talaaq at once issue is done with knowledge......and yet we disregard its severity!

Brother - indeed this is a difficult situation.
But, please realise that 2 wrongs do not make a right.

By committing yet another act that is Haraam (ie. your wife re-marrying with the intention of reuniting with you at a later stage) is not the way forward.
What kind of marriage can it be - when it has been based on something so displeasing to your Creator?

Brother - accept the situation.
This is the decree of Allah (subhaana wataála).
This is HIS plan for your lives.....and HIS plan is ALWAYS the BEST plan.

Believe in this implicitly.
If we can only realise: that behind each and every decision made by Allah Ta’ala there is goodness and wisdom.

Outwardly, it may appear as if there is some problem that we are faced with, but only He knows what the future holds.

Do not doubt this.

Turn towards Allah - if you still believe in His Oneness, and that Mohammed (sallahu alaihi wasalam) is the final messenger of Allah, and you are willing to SUBMIT your life to the commands of the one that has given you life, brought you out of nothing.....then take your shahada.
It need not be in a masjid....it can be done right now as you read this.

What matters is not who is around you at the time, but your intention and sincerity when taking shahada.

May Allah guide you onto the straight path, and fill your heart with understanding, patience and acceptance. Ameen

Salaam
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