Prophet Muhammad cartoon row leads to resignation

[Ar-RaYYan]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-16615312


What is with (some) Atheists and their continuing hatred and mockery of religion? Yes you dont believe or no longer have a belief in God. That's entirely YOUR decision. Each to their own.
Don't they have anything (productive) to discuss other than making a fun of religious figures, their followers and their beliefs!. I am getting tired of this apparent superiority of theirs where they feel that we dont have the mental capability to think and reason for ourselve as we are dumb enough to believe and follow a thousand year old book and ' a God that cant possibly exist' so it's ok to make fun of your beliefs and your prophets to entertain ourselves!

[Muezzin]

I try not to give attention-seekers what they're looking for.

[CosmicPathos]

Please someone stomp these atheists and annihilate them once and forever.

[joedawun]

Please someone stomp these atheists and annihilate them once and forever.

Very thoughtful, nice sentiments.

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['Abd-al Latif]

Very thoughtful, nice sentiments.

And you feel no burning hatred towards a blasphemous image of Jesus drinking wine? Your claims to love Jesus eludes me if you feel nothing in your heart over this.

This wasn't an act of freedom of expression when those athiests were well aware that anything of such nature would cause offence.

[Ar-RaYYan]

I try not to give attention-seekers what they're looking for.

hmm yeah its easier said that done though. I suppose its a bit easier to ignore when its personal comments about your appearance or making ignorant comments about the islamic laws but its hard when they make those offensive and hurtful images and comments about the prophets (peace be upon them).

[joedawun]

And you feel no burning hatred towards a blasphemous image of Jesus drinking wine? Your claims to love Jesus eludes me if you feel nothing in your heart over this.

This wasn't an act of freedom of expression when those athiests were well aware that anything of such nature would cause offence.

Per the example of Jesus, I don't feel inclined to "stomp" or "annihilate once and forever" people who offend me. Sorry to disappoint you by not sharing in feeling murderous outrage...there are far more constructive ways to deal with such situations than calling for the elimination of a group of people.

[Muezzin]

hmm yeah its easier said that done though.

You'll learn.

I suppose its a bit easier to ignore when its personal comments about your appearance or making ignorant comments about the islamic laws but its hard when they make those offensive and hurtful images and comments about the prophets (peach be upon them).

I didn't say it wasn't offensive or hurtful. People do things like this to get a reaction. Give them a reaction and they'll do it again to provoke an even stronger reaction, because they derive pleasure from it.

[Pygoscelis]

I try not to give attention-seekers what they're looking for.

I agree, if that is what is happening. I'm not so sure it is though. The cartoon itself is not written for muslims, but for atheists and liberal religious people. It explores different aspects of religion with humour. It isn't hateful and doesn't endorse violence. I see absolutely nothing wrong with that in itself.

And if you think that people should walk on eggshells to avoid offending the sensibilities of these religions then maybe you should consider the fact that people have been told for centuries that they deserve to burn in hell, or worse, simply for not holding the beliefs of these religions.

Please someone stomp these atheists and annihilate them once and forever.

Nowhere in the cartoon complained of is there any sentiment anywhere near as violent and hateful as this.

[Who Am I?]

:sl:

I have a couple of friends who are atheists and we get along well enough, as long as we don't talk about religion.

[Muezzin]

I agree, if that is what is happening. I'm not so sure it is though. The cartoon itself is not written for muslims, but for atheists and liberal religious people. It explores different aspects of religion with humour. It isn't hateful and doesn't endorse violence. I see absolutely nothing wrong with that in itself.

Either way, it's best to ignore it.

And if you think that people should walk on eggshells to avoid offending the sensibilities of these religions then maybe you should consider the fact that people have been told for centuries that they deserve to burn in hell, or worse, simply for not holding the beliefs of these religions.

If those people don't believe it, it's best for them to ignore it too.

Life's too short, choose your battles, and variety of other cliches apply.

On the other hand, if you have people in prominent positions espousing offensive views, or worse, people you know doing the same, it's better to assert yourself (asserting yourself doesn't necessarily mean being offensive in retaliation).

But a mouthy bugger on the street? Silly students you don't know? Not worth the effort.

['Abd-al Latif]

Per the example of Jesus, I don't feel inclined to "stomp" or "annihilate once and forever" people who offend me. Sorry to disappoint you by not sharing in feeling murderous outrage...there are far more constructive ways to deal with such situations than calling for the elimination of a group of people.

I was talking about your response.

[joedawun]

I was talking about your response.

You must be reading something in my response that I'm not

[Tyrion]

I suppose its a bit easier to ignore when its personal comments about your appearance or making ignorant comments about the islamic laws but its hard when they make those offensive and hurtful images and comments about the prophets (peach be upon them).

How do you know they liked peaches? o.O

[Flame of Hope]

:sl:

This is one thread where I could really have used the "Dislike" button.

[Who Am I?]

:sl:

This is one thread where I could really have used the "Dislike" button.

:wa:

Now that's most threads for me.

[Flame of Hope]

:sl:

Sorry, correction.

I'd use the "Dislike" button for SOME posts in this thread. Not for the whole thread.

[Who Am I?]

:sl:

Sorry, correction.

I'd use the "Dislike" button for SOME posts in this thread. Not for the whole thread.

:wa:

Ah, that's too much effort for me, sister. Just one and done it, man. ;D

[Crystal]

I don't get offended what they did because I know these people are ignorant. They must have a very very sad life if they have fun hurting other people. It doesn't upset because I know people like that will eventually get what they deserve.

[CosmicPathos]

Nowhere in the cartoon complained of is there any sentiment anywhere near as violent and hateful as this.

I hate them as much as they hate my religion, what part of it you do not get? After all, dont many atheists proclaim that they hate Islam, not Muslims? Well, they should then be ready for the pay back.

Violent? lol, I've committed no violence. I do however wish that mother nature eliminate their genotype.

[sister herb]

Salam alaykum;

Isn´t this show that Allah is the Greatest? He hasn´t only created Islam as perfect religion but also created Shaytan and his followers whose whisper they message to believers as test in this life. Keep your hearts clean and treat them as true believer.

;D

[Flame of Hope]

Please someone stomp these atheists and annihilate them once and forever.

Dislike.

If Umar (ra) and Khalid ibn al Walid (ra) had been annihilated whilst they were disbelievers, the world would have lost some most wonderful men.

I myself come from a family of atheists. I'm a Muslim today.

[Perseveranze]

A small victory against freedom to hate.

[Aprender]

And if you think that people should walk on eggshells to avoid offending the sensibilities of these religions then maybe you should consider the fact that people have been told for centuries that they deserve to burn in hell, or worse, simply for not holding the beliefs of these religions.

The Prophet ﷺ (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “This world is a prison for the believer and a paradise for the disbeliever” (Sahih Muslim).

It saddens me that some atheists have nothing better to do with their lives than to make fun of those with faith.

Yes, there are some religious people who will say to the atheist that they will burn in hell. That is something that they should not do as they should not be putting themselves in the position of the Creator and making an ultimate judgement in that way. But you don't believe it anyway and most of the time atheists laugh it off and go on about their lives. However, I cannot understand why so many atheists waste money, time, creativity and other efforts trying to deter people from believing what they want to believe in especially when many of them are adamant about the words "lakum deenukum wa li yadeen" whether they know it or not. Live and let live. I believe your actions are a reflection of what is in your heart. These actions would indicate somewhat of a jealousy of those who have sincere faith in God and strive and live for something better than this. Since they cannot have that happiness, that level of faith in something that doesn't exist in their eyes, they want what they would call an illusion to go away so we all can be on the same level.

For a group of people who often blame religion as the source of all trouble and conflict in this world, then the energy of atheist organizations would be better suited in the community actually doing good works for the betterment of humanity since that's what many atheists I've come across say is the real end. To have good and do good in this life to the best of our ability since they believe that this is the only one we've got. Why waste precious time on silly endeavors mocking people who they already think are made up fairy tales or at the very least disillusioned men who existed at one time in history? Why feed into it? If making these cartoons makes them feel better about their own misery then OK, but I see no need to spread it with the masses if they know it's going to offend some people. Use that brain.

"The one who does not believe that there is any place better--who believes that this world is the best it can get--will become very impatient when this life isn't perfect. They are quickly angered and quickly devastated because this life was supposed to be a paradise. They don't realize there is something greater. And so this is all they want. This is all they strive for. Every effort, every ability, every opportunity, every gift endowed to them by their Creator, is employed for the sake of seeking this life--of which nothing will come to them expect what is written." - Yasmin Mogahed

[GuestFellow]

And you feel no burning hatred towards a blasphemous image of Jesus drinking wine? Your claims to love Jesus eludes me if you feel nothing in your heart over this.

Salaam,

Yes, but not all Atheists were involved. You can't annihilate all atheists just because a few have offended you. Besides, getting all angry is the reaction that they want.

This wasn't an act of freedom of expression when those athiests were well aware that anything of such nature would cause offence.

It actually is freedom of expression, even if it is offensive. Not that I agree with what those atheists have done.

['Abd-al Latif]

I think I need to clarify myself. I wasn't supporting the idea to "annihilate all atheists". I was expressing my outright disapproval for portraying Jesus and Muhammed as drinkers; they are far removed from ever being such people. They themselves never approved of alcohol; no one since the creation of man has ever come with so much good as the Prophets and Messengers of God. And I find it deeply insulting that they would be lowered to the level of miserable, lowly drunks.

The world now understands the outrage of Muslims if Muhammed (:saws1:) is ever shown any disrespect, but I would not expect to hear the followers of Jesus to take such a light approach when their religion is shown the same disrespect.

[Galaxy]

:sl:

How very offensive, they obviously did that to stir controversy. They know that the Prophet:saws1: is dear to us. What is their excuse, because they can? Don't they know that the comic will inevitably receive loads of complaints and they'd have to take it down soon? It's because making Muslims angry is funny eh?!

[Ramadhan]

I pity those atheists:

When Our verses are recited to him, he says, "Legends of the former peoples."
No! Rather, the stain has covered their hearts of that which they were earning.
No! Indeed, from their Lord, that Day, they will be partitioned.
Then indeed, they will [enter and] burn in Hellfire.
Then it will be said [to them], "This is what you used to deny."
(QS. 83:13-17)

Da'wah must be given to those people, but when they keep rejecting it, we are commanded by Allah SWT not to take them as allies and close friends:

O you who have believed, take not those who have taken your religion in ridicule and amusement among the ones who were given the Scripture before you nor the disbelievers as allies. And fear Allah , if you should [truly] be believers.
And when you call to prayer, they take it in ridicule and amusement. That is because they are a people who do not use reason.
(QS. 5:57-58)

[CosmicPathos]

Dislike.

If Umar (ra) and Khalid ibn al Walid (ra) had been annihilated whilst they were disbelievers, the world would have lost some most wonderful men.

I myself come from a family of atheists. I'm a Muslim today.

Umar (ra) and Khalid Bin Waleed were polytheists, not atheists. They believed in Allah, yet committed shirk. Unlike atheists, Umar (ra) and Khalid (ra) did not arrogantly say that Allah is a fairy tale or that He did not exist. Mind the difference.

And no matter how much pious Muslim an ex-atheist become, he/she can never reach the status of Umar (ra). The very fact that you are comparing possible conversion of an atheist to Islam with that of Umar (ra) is repungant.

I abhor all anti-theist atheists. If your family members are anti-theists, then sorry, I cant change myself to please you. If you feel hurt that Muslims hate anti-theists because your family members are such, then I kindly urge you to do some soul searching and rediscover where your priorities lie. Whilst, keep giving dawah to your family.

If someone is a passive atheist, I have no problem with them. The moment they become anti-theist, at that very moment war begins. Like this original poster who claims he has the keys to the universal truth!

[CosmicPathos]

I think I need to clarify myself. I wasn't supporting the idea to "annihilate all atheists". I was expressing my outright disapproval for portraying Jesus and Muhammed as drinkers; they are far removed from ever being such people. They themselves never approved of alcohol; no one since the creation of man has ever come with so much good as the Prophets and Messengers of God. And I find it deeply insulting that they would be lowered to the level of miserable, lowly drunks.

The world now understands the outrage of Muslims if Muhammed (:saws1:) is ever shown any disrespect, but I would not expect to hear the followers of Jesus to take such a light approach when their religion is shown the same disrespect.

What if all atheists of the world got together and decided that they need to wipe off religion, then would you support annihilation of atheists?

A genuine question.

[GuestFellow]

What if all atheists of the world got together and decided that they need to wipe off religion, then would you support annihilation of atheists?

A genuine question.

Salaam,

It is not a realistic scenario. I highly doubt all atheists will come together and decide to destroy religion. If that is the case, then I still do not support killing/annihilating all atheists.

[GuestFellow]

The world now understands the outrage of Muslims if Muhammed (:saws1:) is ever shown any disrespect.

:sl:

We actually make it worse sometimes. When we react to such insults, then we give them publicity. It is not intentional, but it is something we should keep in mind. If we don't react, these things MAY go away.

Though I'm not advocating to completely ignore it. Sometimes, there is nothing wrong with responding to these insults, as long as it is done in a calm manner.

[Ramadhan]

We actually make it worse sometimes. When we react to such insults, then we give them publicity. It is not intentional, but it is something we should keep in mind. If we don't react, these things MAY go away.

:sl:

I agree that we sometimes over reacted.

HOWEVER, I totally disagree with you saying that if we don't react these things MAY go away.
These things will NEVER go away.

Do you need more evidence than what the secular atheistic society have been doing with prophet Eesa (as)? or Musa (as)? etc etc?
Christians west did not seem to react and seemed already given up and yet insults after ridicules kept leveled at the prophets (pbut).

Those atheists will never be satisfied until we renounce our religion and belief in God (swt) and be like they are.
This is in the Qur'an (although I cannot remember the exact verses).

[Ramadhan]

It is important to keep reiterating that making fun of prophet Muhammad saw (and ideally also other prophets pbut) is very very offensive to us.
One reason why I think there's less insults towards prophet Muhammad (saw) is that most people now understand that it is very offensive to us.
And we need to be firm about this without violating any law. Like what The Ahmadiyya Muslim Youth Association at UCL did in the OP article. (by the way, where was the muslim students association??)

Just look at the successful tactic employed by the jewish lobby in the US: they keep reiterating that against israel = anti-jews = racists

[sister herb]

Just look at the successful tactic employed by the jewish lobby in the US: they keep reiterating that against israel = anti-jews = racists

Anti-semitic you have to say. Person can be semitic himself but if against zionism, automaticly anti-semitic.

[Who Am I?]

Anti-semitic you have to say. Person can be semitic himself but if against zionism, automaticly anti-semitic.

:sl:

If you hate Arabs you're anti-Semitic as well, but nobody ever mentions that.

[CosmicPathos]

Salaam,

It is not a realistic scenario. I highly doubt all atheists will come together and decide to destroy religion. If that is the case, then I still do not support killing/annihilating all atheists.

W salam,

then I have to say that you have no idea about the modern anti-theist movement. These atheists actively hate religions, and want to wipe all religions from humanity. Richard Dawkins is the most famous from that lot that comes to my mind. Hitchens was one too but hes dead. This movement has many foot soldiers too who employ internet as their battlefield.

Perhaps "all" might be a stronger word, I meant most influential atheists.

[GuestFellow]

W salam,

then I have to say that you have no idea about the modern anti-theist movement. These atheists actively hate religions, and want to wipe all religions from humanity. Richard Dawkins is the most famous from that lot that comes to my mind. Hitchens was one too but hes dead. This movement has many foot soldiers too who employ internet as their battlefield.

Perhaps "all" might be a stronger word, I meant most influential atheists.

:sl:

I thought you meant all atheists. Richard Dawkins is an attention seeker. Ugh, absolutely despise him.

The type of atheists you mention are hypocritical to a certain extent. They dislike organised religion, but they end up becoming something very similar.

[User29123]

Seriously people why is everyone moaning? If they want to draw cartoons let them, we can't really stop them, they can do it in USA, Netherlands, wherever they want, if your a true Muslim just move on with your life, and leave the people which do such things out of it, mostly the media gives them attention...

If these Kufar want to draw let them, but we should move on,and why is everyone actually moaning here, have you seen those Islamic/Arab channels where the portray Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) but never show his face, only his body? I find that still blasphemy but no one speaks out then....

[UmmuShaheed]

Agreed,
I really do believe some of them are attention seekers beyond repair, and others can be somehow shown the truth. (Islam)

['Abd-al Latif]

:sl:

We actually make it worse sometimes. When we react to such insults, then we give them publicity. It is not intentional, but it is something we should keep in mind. If we don't react, these things MAY go away.

Though I'm not advocating to completely ignore it. Sometimes, there is nothing wrong with responding to these insults, as long as it is done in a calm manner.

I don't believe in such a passive role, in fact I detest staying silent about it. The sahaba were very conscious of anything being said against Islam and made diligent effort to resolve it.

And I don't believe we overreact. I don't think I have ever seen a Muslim overreact – ever – to any discrimination directed towards Islam. I do believe however that Muslims of late have reacted the wrong way.

Protests? Slogans? Hate messages (kill blah blah)? This is not what the way of the righteous. The sahaba and the righteous after them were far more productive and decisive in dealing with such problems.

[~ Sabr ~]

Seriously people why is everyone moaning? If they want to draw cartoons let them, we can't really stop them, they can do it in USA, Netherlands, wherever they want, if your a true Muslim just move on with your life, and leave the people which do such things out of it, mostly the media gives them attention...

So when Allaah asks us on the Day of Judgement that did we speak out against the insult of the Prophet (Sallallahu Alayhi Wa Sallam), we hang our heads in shame?!

If these Kufar want to draw let them, but we should move on,and why is everyone actually moaning here, have you seen those Islamic/Arab channels where the portray Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) but never show his face, only his body? I find that still blasphemy but no one speaks out then....

​They should?!

['Abd-al Latif]

Seriously people why is everyone moaning? If they want to draw cartoons let them, we can't really stop them, they can do it in USA, Netherlands, wherever they want, if your a true Muslim just move on with your life, and leave the people which do such things out of it, mostly the media gives them attention...

If these Kufar want to draw let them, but we should move on,and why is everyone actually moaning here, have you seen those Islamic/Arab channels where the portray Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) but never show his face, only his body? I find that still blasphemy but no one speaks out then....

If you are a true Muslim you won't stand for it, and this is what is mentioned in the Qur'an and Sunnah! Al Mugheerah ibn Ash-shu'ba, a sahabi, wouldn't allow his own non-Muslim uncle to touch the beard of the Messenger of Allah (:saws1:) during a conversation they (the uncle and Messenger :saws1:) were having, and threatened to cut off his hand if he tried to do it again. Ibn Taymiyah (r) said that a person does not enjoin the good and forbid the evil for two reasons: he is either coward and is weak or he has an inclination towards evil. I hope that you are not among them.

The Prophet (:saws1:) said that one should change evil with his hands if he is able to, if not then speak against it, and still yet if he is unable to do anything about it then he should hate it in his heart. If you cannot hate this action, as the very least you can do, what iman do you have?

[GuestFellow]

I don't believe in such a passive role, in fact I detest staying silent about it. The sahaba were very conscious of anything being said against Islam and made diligent effort to resolve it.

And I don't believe we overreact. I don't think I have ever seen a Muslim overreact – ever – to any discrimination directed towards Islam. I do believe however that Muslims of late have reacted the wrong way.

Protests? Slogans? Hate messages (kill blah blah)? This is not what the way of the righteous. The sahaba and the righteous after them were far more productive and decisive in dealing with such problems.

Salaam,

I don't think I said overreact (if I did, I didn't mean to say that). I meant not to react at all. Some people want a reaction. They like to see Muslims get upset and angry. They find it funny. So I personally will not give them that reaction. This may come under your category of reacting in the wrong way.

At times, I think we have to react when the issue becomes national/international. If let's say, a student insulted Prophet Mohammed (P.B.U.H) and Muslims staged a massive protests outside the school gates to expel him, then I would say we shot ourselves in the foot...

[Pygoscelis]

What if all atheists of the world got together and decided that they need to wipe off religion, then would you support annihilation of atheists?

A genuine question.

This right here is the core imbalance of it. They hope for the end of your ideology. You hope for the end of their lives.

And then your fellow muslims are left to complain when the stereotype of the violent hateful muslim emerges. And of course that very stereotype is in large part what drives the people you complain about to begin with. It is a viscious circle.

And as for the Christians, in recent times they have been nowhere near as hateful or violent in their responses to their religion being attacked. Does anybody here remember "p*** christ"? It was a disgusting attack on Jesus. Nobody was killed because of it. There was no call to end the lives of all anti-christians.

Come to think of it, are muslims not anti-christian and christians not anti-muslim? Don't both religions seek to convert the whole planet to their ideology (by peaceful or by violent means depending on the particular muslim/christian?) How is that any different from these anti-religious atheists you speak of? Are you calling for the deaths of all Christians too? Of all believers in religions who wish to spread their beleifs to the world (thereby eliminating Islam)? Do you realize you'd be calling for the death of billions of people?

[Pygoscelis]

:sl:

I have a couple of friends who are atheists and we get along well enough, as long as we don't talk about religion.

I have a few muslim, christian, and jewish friends nad we get along well enough, even if we do talk about religion. I'm under no illusion that the poster above is representative of the religious in general, nor all or even most muslims.

[Tyrion]

I'm under no illusion that the poster above is representative of the religious in general, nor all or even most muslims.

Good. Now I won't have to kill you...




:p:

[Pygoscelis]

I think I need to clarify myself. I wasn't supporting the idea to "annihilate all atheists". I was expressing my outright disapproval for portraying Jesus and Muhammed as drinkers;

My question to you is if this potrayal of Mohammed and Jesus as drinkers is more offensive to you than your fellow muslim's hatred for and hoping for the deaths of people who are anti-religious.

I wonder what the reaction would be if some racist came here and said he hopes all muslims die. :heated:

['Abd-al Latif]

This right here is the core imbalance of it. They hope for the end of your ideology. You hope for the end of their lives.

And then your fellow muslims are left to complain when the stereotype of the violent hateful muslim emerges. And of course that very stereotype is in large part what drives the people you complain about to begin with. It is a viscious circle.

And as for the Christians, in recent times they have been nowhere near as hateful or violent in their responses to their religion being attacked. Does anybody here remember "p*** christ"? It was a disgusting attack on Jesus. Nobody was killed because of it. There was no call to end the lives of all anti-christians.

Come to think of it, are muslims not anti-christian and christians not anti-muslim? Don't both religions seek to convert the whole planet to their ideology (by peaceful or by violent means depending on the particular muslim/christian?) How is that any different from these anti-religious atheists you speak of? Are you calling for the deaths of all Christians too? Of all believers in religions who wish to spread their beleifs to the world (thereby eliminating Islam)? Do you realize you'd be calling for the death of billions of people?

You couldn't be more wrong. Muslims have never been anti-Christian or even anti-Jewish for that matter. The biggest proof of this is the Christians, Jews and Muslims who had lived together in Jerusalem for hundreds of years under Muslim rule. If anything it was the crusaders who used violent methods to remove the Muslim rule in present day Israel, twice! Both offences being disastrous for Muslims who paid and still pay with their lives till this day.

['Abd-al Latif]

My question to you is if this potrayal of Mohammed and Jesus as drinkers is more offensive to you than your fellow muslim's hatred for and hoping for the deaths of people who are anti-religious.

I wonder what the reaction would be if some racist came here and said he hopes all muslims die. :heated:

I didn't approve or disapprove of anyone else's view of killing. My opinion of his opinion remains neutral until I say so otherwise. I did however clarify my position with my earlier post and that should be sufficient to answer your question. The answer is in the very quotation in your reply.

As for someone hoping that Muslims would die, it wouldn't be the first time I hear it and it certainly won't be the last. My reaction will be to press the big scary red button that says "ban" and the problem will be solved.

[Ar-RaYYan]

I wonder what the reaction would be if some racist came here and said he hopes all muslims die.

Maybe this not a direct question but i still like to say something about it - just for a clarification.
Like I said in my earlier post if someone makes a personal and rather offensive comment about you it is quiet different to insulting the prophets.If some racist said that he hopes all muslims die i wouldnt give him the pleasure of a reaction. It is not worth reacting to bigotry comments like that.
But comments like the above is not the same as making blasphemous images of the prophets and making offensive and insulting comments about them. Prophet Muhammad (saw) is more beloved to us than anybody else that has ever walked on this planet so you see for muslims there is more hurt and anger if they hear about people insulting the prophet (pbuh) than about themselves.

[Pygoscelis]

You couldn't be more wrong. Muslims have never been anti-Christian or even anti-Jewish for that matter. The biggest proof of this is the Christians, Jews and Muslims who had lived together in Jerusalem for hundreds of years under Muslim rule.

That means they didn't forbid Judaism and Christianity or hunt down and kill them (though I wouldn't be surprised if they did so, a little), it doesn't mean they didn't wish the religions to cease to be and for Islam to be adopted by all. I have heard the latter over and over on this very board. And if one's hope for these religions to cease to exist (and Islam to be adopted by all) is a cause of those who practice those other religions to kill you (by the logic in the post I was responding to), then.... ya... you see my point.

[Pygoscelis]

I didn't approve or disapprove of anyone else's view of killing. My opinion of his opinion remains neutral until I say so otherwise.

That is exactly my point. You remain neutral (apparently still do?) in the face of somebody calling for the death of others, and yet complain about somebody drawing a cartoon.

As for someone hoping that Muslims would die, it wouldn't be the first time I hear it and it certainly won't be the last. My reaction will be to press the big scary red button that says "ban" and the problem will be solved.

Again, exactly my point, and exactly as it should be. Yet somehow it changes if the people being wished to die are anti-theist instead of muslim?

[CosmicPathos]

That is exactly my point. You remain neutral (apparently still do?) in the face of somebody calling for the death of others, and yet complain about somebody drawing a cartoon.

The moment they stop drawing cartoons, no one would call for their death. Fault is theirs, not mine.

Moreover, many anti-theists want to eliminate ideology + adherents of those ideologies. Even if most atheists want the ideology annihilated but not the ideologists, to ideologists there is no difference in demanding annihilation of just ideology or that of ideologists in addition.

[Tyrion]

The moment they stop drawing cartoons, no one would call for their death. Fault is theirs, not mine.

How do you not see how hilariously deranged this statement is?

[CosmicPathos]

How do you not see how hilariously deranged this statement is?

I do not see it that way. If you do, I cannot help it. All views are equal.

[Tyrion]

All views are equal.

What? o.o

[CosmicPathos]

What? o.o

In an evolutionary Godless world, all views are equally valid, as long as they are coherent and logically follow from the assumption.

[marwen]

A small victory against freedom to hate.

one of my preferred posts.
Indeed It's not really a problem of/with atheism (although it's statistically more related to atheists than others).
This problem is due to a misunderstanding of freedom (the misconception of absolute freedom). That type of people (or point of view) can exist even among different religious people. Adopting a concept of freedom that does not take in consideration the existence of other humans and their choices or religions. A freedom that contradicts freedom (of others). This is pure ignorance. Mixed with the fact that these people are unable to express their ideas with arguments or civil discussion (maybe due to their limited intellectual level). Add to that the hatered feelings accumulated from unexplaned prejudices collected from media/society/etc. So they resort to offensive means as stupid and childish as "cartoons".

[Pygoscelis]

How do you not see how hilariously deranged this statement is?

You sir are the thin wedge that keeps the rest of us non-muslims from full on islamophobia in the face of the hateful and all too common statements from other muslims such as the one you are responding to in this post.

We've got a poster stating that people who draw cartoons deserve to die for it (a hater). We've got a moderator who refuses to criticize that view and insists on "remaining neutral" (an enabler). We've got a bunch more posters showing far more dismay over the cartoon than the death wishes.

This thread started by asking why do some anti-theists mock and insult Islam. Is has now come full circle and has given us a prime example of why. Is it really any wonder that Islamophobia thrives and that people like Geert Wilders can get into office?

The true irony of it all is that I am often told that religion makes people better, kinder, more peaceful, etc. And yet here we've got the religious making death wishes and no atheist wishing ill on anybody. Stop and moment and think of what the poster here, a muslim, is doing to Islam by saying it endorses such hatred and death wishes. Is that not worse than some non-muslim drawing your phrophet holding a drink? If not, then perhaps the Geert Wilders' of the world have been right all along and I have been wrong.

[~ Sabr ~]

@ Pygoscelis - Islam is indeed a religion of Peace- don't judge by Muslims nowadays, read up on the Biography of the best example ever lived - Muhammad Sallallahu Alayhi Wa Sallam.

['Abd-al Latif]

That means they didn't forbid Judaism and Christianity or hunt down and kill them (though I wouldn't be surprised if they did so, a little), it doesn't mean they didn't wish the religions to cease to be and for Islam to be adopted by all. I have heard the latter over and over on this very board. And if one's hope for these religions to cease to exist (and Islam to be adopted by all) is a cause of those who practice those other religions to kill you (by the logic in the post I was responding to), then.... ya... you see my point.

God you're full of assumptions. Have you ever even looked into Islam or do you just judge actions of any Tom, Dick and Harry?

We don't deny that we call one and all to accept Islam but we do not force anyone to accept it. We do not promote violence and an outburst from a Muslim does not make it into a law!

Let me look for the hadeeth that commands justice by Muslims among the Jews and Christians under our rule. See for yourself how Islam commands the opposite to your preconceived ideas and misconceptions.

['Abd-al Latif]

That is exactly my point. You remain neutral (apparently still do?) in the face of somebody calling for the death of others, and yet complain about somebody drawing a cartoon.

What's your point? I already told you that I strongly condemn anyone who draws a cartoon of Muhammed :saws1: and I will never change, be it atheist, Christian, Jew or even another Muslim! Am I supposed to be passive and ignoring towards someone who knows drawing cartoons is insulting? Like you would remain silent and passive over something that you find deeply insulting!

Again, exactly my point, and exactly as it should be. Yet somehow it changes if the people being wished to die are anti-theist instead of muslim?

The issue here is not to do with atheists or non-Muslims, genius! It's the fact that some joker stands up and does something that they knew would cause a negative reaction and yet did it anyway.

This Muslim-terrorist oxymoron or Muslims-want-to-kill-everybody cliché that you so desperately cling onto is ignorance, of Islam and of especially of Muslims.

[~Zaria~]

Assalamu-alaikum

^^ What does the quraan say about freedom of religion?

"Let there be no compulsion in religion, truth stands out clear from error: Whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks, and Allah hears and knows all things." (Quran 2:256)


“If it had been your Lord’s will, all of the people on Earth would have believed. Would you then compel the people so to have them believe?” (Quran 10:99)


“The Messenger’s duty is but to proclaim the Message.” (Quran 5:99)


“So if they dispute with you, say ‘I have submitted my whole self to God, and so have those who follow me.’ And say to the People of the Scripture and to the unlearned: ‘Do you also submit yourselves?’ If they do, then they are on right guidance. But if they turn away, your duty is only to convey the Message. And in God’s sight are all of His servants.” (Quran 3:20)



Can it be any clearer than this?

SubhanAllah!

Salaam

[Pygoscelis]

God you're full of assumptions. Have you ever even looked into Islam or do you just judge actions of any Tom, Dick and Harry?

We don't deny that we call one and all to accept Islam but we do not force anyone to accept it.

Yes, I know. But read what the gentleman wrote. He wrote that he wishes the anihilation of those who wish for the end of Islam. He did not state that these people must use force towards that end to qualify for his death wish. I pointed out that Islam itself wishes for the end of atheism and other religions as all adopt Islam. You confirm this in the quote above. Yet I don't see anybody here taking from that a wish for the anihilation of muslims, and if somebody did say that they would be rightly be condemned. Do you not see the imbalance?

['Abd-al Latif]

Yes, I know. But read what the gentleman wrote. He wrote that he wishes the anihilation of those who wish for the end of Islam. He did not state that these people must use force towards that end to qualify for his death wish. I pointed out that Islam itself wishes for the end of atheism and other religions as all adopt Islam. You confirm this in the quote above. Yet I don't see anybody taking from that a wish for the anihilation of muslims. Do you not see the imbalance?

Yeah? Well that's new to me and I was born a Muslim. Can you prove that? (referring to what's highlighted in red).

As I said in the last post, his outburst does not make it into a law!

[Pygoscelis]

Yeah? Well that's new to me and I was born a Muslim. Can you prove that?

We don't deny that we call one and all to accept Islam but we do not force anyone to accept it.

If you call one and all to accept Islam and hope that all do so, then you are hoping that all leave other religions as well as atheism and join Islam. I see nothing wrong with that hope, but it is not so different than the anti-theists hoping that all mulsims leave Islam (also not by force), which is what prompted the gentleman I responded to to wish for their deaths. Do you or do you not see a double standard there?

As I said in the last post, his outburst does not make it into a law!

You are correct, it doesn't make it into a law. It does however express the position of an individual muslim, and your continued refusal to condemn it shows the position of another. The outrage of others in this thread at the cartoon and not at the death wishes shows the position of still more. If not for the few who such as Tyrion and Umm Ahlaam one would be led to a certain conclusion about muslims on this board, and may make the mistake of generalizing that to muslims overall, and thus to Islam.

It should be no mystery why some anti-theists criticize, mock or draw cartoons about Islam when facing some muslims wishing them to die and others refusing to condemn that.

[CosmicPathos]

He wrote that he wishes the anihilation of those who wish for the end of Islam

Read what you wrote again. I would be mentally insane if I indeed did not, in my defense, wish for annihilation, otherwise I'd be annihilated. You see the logical fallacy with your argument? You are using your assumption as your conclusion. We want end of Islam because its stupid ideology and in retaliation Muslims want to kill us, and that is exactly why we want end of Islam. Ludicrous.

[CosmicPathos]

We do not promote violence and an outburst from a Muslim does not make it into a law!

I really doubt it was just an "outburst." Violence is when there is no rational justification for initiating it. Here we have an army of anti-theists wishing death of ideology (and by extension its ideologues) and when we stand up in pre-emptive strike, the anti-theist uses that as justification to proclaim "that is precisely why we want end of Islam." Stupidity on the loose.

[GuestFellow]

Yes, I know. But read what the gentleman wrote. He wrote that he wishes the anihilation of those who wish for the end of Islam. He did not state that these people must use force towards that end to qualify for his death wish. I pointed out that Islam itself wishes for the end of atheism and other religions as all adopt Islam. You confirm this in the quote above. Yet I don't see anybody here taking from that a wish for the anihilation of muslims, and if somebody did say that they would be rightly be condemned. Do you not see the imbalance?

Salaam,

Muslims wish non-Muslims to convert. But we cannot do this by force. This is why we still have Christians and Jews living in Muslim countries.

[Pygoscelis]

Read what you wrote again. I would be mentally insane if I indeed did not, in my defense, wish for annihilation, otherwise I'd be annihilated.

No you wouldn't. Perhaps you miscommunicated? You wrote those who hope for the end of Islam, not just those who want to kill muslims (who actually WOULD be a threat to your life). I have pointed this out again and again, so it is a bit late to correct this, but if you want to please do.

I would very much like to believe that you do not call for the death of those who peacefully hope for the end of your ideology. But from what you've written you seem to be calling for exactly that. When you tell me that you hope all would convert to Islam (thus ending atheism) that doesn't make me hope you die. Do you think it should?

[Pygoscelis]

Salaam,

Muslims wish non-Muslims to convert. But we cannot do this by force. This is why we still have Christians and Jews living in Muslim countries.

Yes, I know this. These anti-theists being written about are not to force muslims to deconvert either, but they can wish for it (which apparently brings on wishes that they die).

[CosmicPathos]

I would very much like to believe that you do not call for the death of those who peacefully hope for the end of your ideology.

I do no think any room for "peace" remains when you do not want the otherness to survive even if you peacefully wished so. The fact that you wished so highlights your inner desire for its end, and that by definition is a threat. For example, much like how if someone wishes, peacefully, that may the White people of world perish, even if they do not advocate violence.

[GuestFellow]

Yes, I know this. These anti-theists being written about are not to force muslims to deconvert either, but they can wish for it (which apparently brings on wishes that they die).

Salaam,

Some atheists do desire for Muslims not to practice their faith in public, but I highly doubt they will go as far to kill Muslims.

[Tyrion]

Here we have an army of anti-theists wishing death of ideology (and by extension its ideologues)

That doesn't follow. If people want ideologies to go away, that doesn't mean they want people to die. You're just looking for some kind of justification for your twisted views.

I do no think any room for "peace" remains when you do not want the otherness to survive even if you peacefully wished so. The fact that you wished so highlights your inner desire for its end, and that by definition is a threat. For example, much like how if someone wishes, peacefully, that may the White people of world perish, even if they do not advocate violence.

I think you need to take a break from the internet and just reflect on your own for a while... Maybe spend some time with a box full of kittens. (Or puppies, if you're a dog person..)

I wish all racist ideologies would die, but I don't for a second consider wishing for all followers of such ideologies to die... But you seem to think that just wishing for the end of a belief leads to exterminating believers. That's insane.

['Abd-al Latif]

If you call one and all to accept Islam and hope that all do so, then you are hoping that all leave other religions as well as atheism and join Islam. I see nothing wrong with that hope, but it is not so different than the anti-theists hoping that all mulsims leave Islam (also not by force), which is what prompted the gentleman I responded to to wish for their deaths. Do you or do you not see a double standard there?

You are correct, it doesn't make it into a law. It does however express the position of an individual muslim, and your continued refusal to condemn it shows the position of another. The outrage of others in this thread at the cartoon and not at the death wishes shows the position of still more. If not for the few who such as Tyrion and Umm Ahlaam one would be led to a certain conclusion about muslims on this board, and may make the mistake of generalizing that to muslims overall, and thus to Islam.

It should be no mystery why some anti-theists criticize, mock or draw cartoons about Islam when facing some muslims wishing them to die and others refusing to condemn that.

Do you make such a big deal over every minor, petty, minute detail about everything else in the world as well?

I thought I had made myself clear earlier but clearly I haven't, so lets try this again. I do not support the unjust killing of anyone. Any lack of response from me does not automatically show my approval, or denial for that matter, of anything. I would appreciate it if from this point onwards you treat matters as such. Any such unfounded assumptions you have now or make in the future about me, Islam or any other Muslim in the world are from your own imagination. If you must judge anything, judge after seeing the law that Muslims follow, not a bloody reaction from an individual!

[GuestFellow]

If you must judge anything, judge after seeing the law that Muslims follow, not a bloody reaction from an individual!

Salaam,

Chill...have a kitkat. :p:

['Abd-al Latif]

I really doubt it was just an "outburst." Violence is when there is no rational justification for initiating it. Here we have an army of anti-theists wishing death of ideology (and by extension its ideologues) and when we stand up in pre-emptive strike, the anti-theist uses that as justification to proclaim "that is precisely why we want end of Islam." Stupidity on the loose.

Akhi, you're not violent all the time are you?

['Abd-al Latif]

Salaam,

Chill...have a kitkat. :p:

Just so you know, bloody isn't swearing as is commonly known amongst many. The word bloody, is for emphasis. :)

[GuestFellow]

Akhi, you're not violent all the time are you?

I love CosmicPathos. For some reason, he reminds me of my grandpa. My grandpa gets all angry and goes rarrr over anything. The next minute, he's a big softy. It could be a multiple personality disorder like Jekyll and Hyde.

[Tyrion]

Any lack of response from me does not automatically show on my approval

As a mod (who I'm sure would have banned a non Muslim member for saying something similar) it kinda does...

[Pygoscelis]

Some atheists do desire for Muslims not to practice their faith in public, but I highly doubt they will go as far to kill Muslims.

The only people I've ever heard calling for the death of muslims have been fundamentalist christians. Anti-theist atheists do mock religion but I've never heard one call for the death of anybody, and I talk to a lot of them being an atheist myself.

I love CosmicPathos. For some reason, he reminds me of my grandpa. My grandpa gets all angry and goes rarrr over anything. The next minute, he's a big softy. It could be a multiple personality disorder like Jekyll and Hyde.

Would you feel the same if he announced that he hopes you die?

[Pygoscelis]

I do no think any room for "peace" remains when you do not want the otherness to survive even if you peacefully wished so. The fact that you wished so highlights your inner desire for its end, and that by definition is a threat. For example, much like how if someone wishes, peacefully, that may the White people of world perish, even if they do not advocate violence.

The anti-theists you complain of have not expressed any hope that muslims of the world all die. It is you who have expressed the hope that they all die. They have merely expressed the hope that your ideology ends, not that you end.

If somebody told me they hope that in the future white people cease to exist as a race, as white people crossbreed and are outbred by other races, that really wouldn't bother me much. I certainly wouldn't start wishing the speaker drops dead after hearing such a thing.

Nor would do I wish muslims drop dead for wishing all atheists to cease being atheists and come to Islam.

[Pygoscelis]

Do you make such a big deal over every minor, petty, minute detail about everything else in the world as well?

When it people publicly declare a wish for the death of other people, yes, I often do make a big deal out of such a minor petty and minute thing. I feel the same way about fundamentalist racist christains who wish for the death of muslims. Don't you?

I do not support the unjust killing of anyone.

Glad to hear it. Now how do you feel about people on your forum endorsing such a thing? Can I finally get you to frown on that like you do on people drawing cartoons?

Any lack of response from me does not automatically show my approval, or denial for that matter

Agreed, it does not show your approval. But it does indicate indifference. Especially when you wrote above that you would not stand by and allow somebody to express their hope for the death of muslims. Apparently if they are muslim, that'd make it objectionable enough to get you to condemn it.

[CosmicPathos]

That doesn't follow. If people want ideologies to go away, that doesn't mean they want people to die. You're just looking for some kind of justification for your twisted views.



I think you need to take a break from the internet and just reflect on your own for a while... Maybe spend some time with a box full of kittens. (Or puppies, if you're a dog person..)

I wish all racist ideologies would die, but I don't for a second consider wishing for all followers of such ideologies to die... But you seem to think that just wishing for the end of a belief leads to exterminating believers. That's insane.

it is called pre-emptive strike.

[CosmicPathos]

They have merely expressed the hope that your ideology ends, not that you end.

Well that is kind of dangerous. In an evolutionary world, what is holding these anti-theists back from killing us in their fervor for ending the ideology? Ideology does not survive without its followers, the only way an ideology can end is if its follower's start leaving that ideology, or die. Now since Islam has come to exist, I do not think it will die off just like that by its followers leaving it over a number of generations, slowly and slowly, but it does remain possible that a systematic extermination of its followers be justified, and why not, when it is allright now to snap off niqab off a sister walking down Bloor St in Toronto downtown or when its okay to ban her from wearing her niqab at her citizenship oath. If banning niqab is possible, shooting a Muslim is possible too.

[Pygoscelis]

Running around killing muslims (as in your imagination, not reality) isn't going to end Islam. It may even drive people towards Islam. It would certainly entrench those who are already muslims and would likely drive many to radicalism. No, if Islam ceases to be it won't be because non-muslims kill muslims. It will be because muslims, especially newer generations of muslims, abandon their faith. And linking Islam to the hope that other people die may be a good way to push them, and certainly any new potential converts, away.

At the end of the day, you are the one wishing death on people, not these anti-religious atheists you fear.

[Ramadhan]

This thread started by asking why do some anti-theists mock and insult Islam. Is has now come full circle and has given us a prime example of why. Is it really any wonder that Islamophobia thrives and that people like Geert Wilders can get into office?

Are you saying that the atheist in the OP drew cartoons of prophet Jesus and Muhammad (saw) drinking in a pub because some muslims like CosmicPathos wished him death?

Or are you just assuming the intention of the OP cartoonist?

[Ramadhan]

Yes, I know this. These anti-theists being written about are not to force muslims to deconvert either, but they can wish for it

The anti-theist was written about not because he wanted muslims to deconvert, but because he insulted muslims by drawing cartoons of prophet Jesus and Muhammad (pbuh) drinking in a pub.

Pygo, you need to learn how to write facts only, and not your own assumptions.

[Pygoscelis]

Are you saying that the atheist in the OP drew cartoons of prophet Jesus and Muhammad (saw) drinking in a pub because some muslims like CosmicPathos wished him death?

Or are you just assuming the intention of the OP cartoonist?

Actually in the case of the cartoonist it isn't even that. He is just having fun and entertaining fellow atheists and liberal religious folks. If you read his strip it is not nearly as aggressive as people here may want to believe. I went and looked at a few of the cartoons. They are very tame and quite funny, more laughing with religion than laughing at it. Clearly people are going out of their way to be insulted by this. Meanwhile we've got a guy wishing death on folks and the reaction is lapse.

[Ramadhan]

Would you feel the same if he announced that he hopes you die?

What if anyone here wishes death upon George W. Bush.
Would you still get as upset?

[Ramadhan]

Actually in the case of the cartoonist it isn't even that. He is just having fun and entertaining fellow atheists and liberal religious folks. If you read his strip it is not nearly as aggressive as people here may want to believe. I went and looked at a few of the cartoons. They are very tame and quite funny, more laughing with religion than laughing at it. Clearly people are going out of their way to be insulted by this. Meanwhile we've got a guy wishing death on folks and the reaction is lapse.

Now, now... you are being double standards

You get your panties all twisted because one muslim's outburst wishing for atheists death and feel that is a lot more grieveous than an insult.
And you think nothing about atheists who drew cartoons of our beloved prophets (pbut). You are saying that the atheists were laughing with religion, well that is -------s, unless you believe that we muslims actually take our religion as laughing matter.

What if we tell you that insulting our prophet (pbuh) is more grievous to us muslims than if you wish death for all of us?
For me personally, I would certainly laugh it off if you wish death upon me, but I will get very upset and angry if you insult prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

[Pygoscelis]

Now, now... you are being double standards

It isn't a double standard. It is a difference in priorities. I hold life as more important than cartoons. You evidently don't.

I will get very upset and angry if you insult prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

Angry enough to want me dead?

[Ramadhan]

It isn't a double standard. It is a difference in priorities.

It is double standards by you, you try to shove your own standards to other people while expecting other people to respect your standards.
You believe making fun of prophets (pbut) is nothing, and expect us to believe it is also nothing.

I hold life as more important than cartoons. You evidently don't.

Again, you are full of your own unfounded assumption. Nowhere have I stated that I hold cartoons more important than life.
I will make it clearer for you: the honor of prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is more dearly to me than my own life. Unless you are more hypocrite than I thought, surely you can respect my own belief?

Angry enough to want me dead?

Excuse me? Where/when did I ever give you even the slightest hint of that?
My God! your head is full of your own unfounded assumptions and paranoia!

[Tyrion]

What if anyone here wishes death upon George W. Bush.
Would you still get as upset?

I would, if it was over a cartoon he drew.

What if we tell you that insulting our prophet (pbuh) is more grievous to us muslims than if you wish death for all of us?
For me personally, I would certainly laugh it off if you wish death upon me, but I will get very upset and angry if you insult prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

That doesn't mean you should be wishing death on a group of people, or overreacting in any way. There are productive ways we're supposed to show and deal with anger, and that isn't one of them. You just end up falling into a trap that has you supporting negative stereotypes about Muslims, and the worst part is that I think most of the people who issue these death threats over a cartoon end up thinking rather highly of themselves, as if they're doing something praiseworthy... But I seriously doubt (from what I know about the Prophet, saw) that Muhammad (saw) would approve of this. I feel like it's just doing a great disservice to him, and his message.

By the way, is there any mod on this forum that can restore some sanity here? Or are all the higher ups in favor of the things said by some of our Muslim members? :heated:



EDIT: @Ramadhan, I just realized that in your response to pygo you seem surprised that we're talking about death threats over cartoons... Just to catch you up in case you haven't been following the last few pages of the thread, we're discussing a few members inappropriate statements regarding the cartoon. Just thought you should know, since most people (like myself, and possibly pygo) are assuming you've been keeping up with the discussion.

[Ramadhan]

That doesn't mean you should be wishing death on a group of people, or overreacting in any way.here are productive ways we're supposed to show and deal with anger, and that isn't one of them. You just end up falling into a trap that has you supporting negative stereotypes about Muslims, and the worst part is that I think most of the people who issue these death threats over a cartoon end up thinking rather highly of themselves, as if they're doing something praiseworthy... But I seriously doubt (from what I know about the Prophet, saw) that Muhammad (saw) would approve of this. I feel like it's just doing a great disservice to him, and his message.

again, when did I ever wish death on a group of people or overreacting in any way against people who insult prophet Muhammad (pbuh)?

Please, stop accusing me for something that I never did.
And please clear your head from all those unfounded assumptions.

[Tyrion]

again, when did I ever wish death on a group of people or overreacting in any way against people who insult prophet Muhammad (pbuh)?

Please, stop accusing me for something that I never did.
And please clear your head from all those unfounded assumptions.

Read my entire post. You walked into a thread in the middle of a discussion. It's natural to assume you've kept up and are joining in, especially since you started responding to posts that were addressing said discussion...

[CosmicPathos]

of course, it is clear to any sane being here that I have not wished death upon psygocells personally. Moreover, he seems to be an atheist, not an anti-theist.

I still maintain my stance about anti-theists. Anti-theists are schizophrenic psychopaths.

[Ramadhan]

Read my entire post. You walked into a thread in the middle of a discussion. It's natural to assume you've kept up and are joining in, especially since you started responding to posts that were addressing said discussion...

Has anyone here wishing death upon any particular member?

[Aprender]

And vie one with another for forgiveness from your Lord, and for a paradise as wide as are the heavens and the earth, prepared for those who ward off (evil); (133) Those who spend (of that which Allah hath given them) in ease and in adversity, those who control their wrath and are forgiving toward mankind; Allah loveth the good; (134) [Al Imran:133-134]

Aisha (May Allah be pleased with her) said, "Never was the Messenger of Allah (pbuh) given the choice between two things without choosing the easier of them, as long as it entailed no sin. If it did entail sin, he was of all people the most remote from it. Never did he seek revenge for something done against himself; but when the sanctity of Allah was challenged, he would take vengeance for His sake alone." [Bukhari and Muslim]

Abdullah Ibn Amr (May Allah be pleased with him) said, "The Messenger of Allah (p.b.u.h.) was never immoderate or obscene. He used to say, 'Among those who are most beloved to me are those who have the finest character.'" [Bukhari and Muslim]

May Allah make us from those who suppress their anger. May Allah make us from those who forgive people lovingly and pardon them out of love of Allah. Ameen

[Pygoscelis]

of course, it is clear to any sane being here that I have not wished death upon psygocells personally. Moreover, he seems to be an atheist, not an anti-theist.

I still maintain my stance about anti-theists. Anti-theists are schizophrenic psychopaths.

I am an atheist more in the mold of Carl Sagan or Michael Shermer, rather than Richard Dawkins or Christopher Hitchens. I don't draw cartoons or hurl pointless insults at holy figures because I don't want to needlessly cause grief. Most of my family is christian and my friends range from Sikh to Jewish to Budhist to Hindu to Muslim. I respect them and what their religions currently mean to them too much to try to deconvert them. But I would definitely be pleased for them and celebrate with them were they to free themselves from religion. And I would definitely prefer a secular world, where religion wasn't something I had to deal with. I hope that someday, generations from now, this will be so. So by the definition you posted above, I am anti-theist.

You may not have known it, but you have called me a schizophrenic psychopath and you have repeatedly, and publicly, told me that you hope I die. Moderators have not seen fit to stop this, object to this, or even to frown on this. They would were I muslim. In the face of this, I have not responded with hatred. I do not wish you any harm whatsoever. I would condemn any attempt to harm you and would protect you from harm if I could. Does this surprise you? Perhaps you can learn from this experience.

[Pygoscelis]

Has anyone here wishing death upon any particular member?

Indirectly, yes. But more troubling is that he has been wishing death upon an entire group of people. And the response to that has been one mod calling it a "minor, petty, minute detail", another accusing me of getting my "panties all twisted" when I object, a poster calling him a lovable grandpa like figure for expressing his wish that we die, and others objecting to people doing drawings and not seeing fit to object to people calling for the death of their fellow humans. If not for Tyrion responding with some sanity, I may be tempted to draw certain conclusions about muslims on this board. But worry not; I don't see you all as "schizophrenic psychopaths".

There, now you're all caught up.

[Maryan0]

.................................................. ...........................................

[GuestFellow]

a poster calling him a lovable grandpa like figure for expressing his wish that we die,

Ah wut?

That is not what I meant at all. I said he reminds me of my grandpa. One minute he's happy, the next minute, he gets all angry about anything, then he becomes a big softy. :/ I'm referring to his personality changes.

I'm not even talking about who he wants to kill.

[GuestFellow]

Indirectly, yes.

Can you show us the actual quote?

Your interpretation of my post makes me question whether your actually understanding what your reading.

[CosmicPathos]

psygocells, I want end of an entire group, just like this guy wants an end of an entire religion of a certain group of ppl. I wish Sam Harris dies slowly and painfully from glioblastoma multiforme, so hopefully he will the see the "civil" nature of his own body. Sam Harris is a faggoty anti-Islamic loon, much more scarier than Dawkins. His lightly pigmented iris/pupils and white color only adds to the fear that we in the East have had to dealt with in the last 300 years of British Colonialism.

[CosmicPathos]

tragic, btw you were wrong in guessing about my personality. I am not alternating between angry and happy, I just respond to different posts in ways they should be responded to.

[GuestFellow]

tragic, btw you were wrong in guessing about my personality. I am not alternating between angry and happy, I just respond to different posts in ways they should be responded to.

I know, but you still remind me of my grandpa :/

Is that okay? =/

[Muezzin]

What a... man-whose-scalp-consists-of-male-genitals.

[CosmicPathos]

and people actually think what he says is smart, and actually laugh behind him. These ppl are pigs.

Claims to be a neuroscientist, lol.

[Tyrion]

psygocells, I want end of an entire group, just like this guy wants an end of an entire religion of a certain group of ppl. I wish Sam Harris dies slowly and painfully from glioblastoma multiforme, so hopefully he will the see the "civil" nature of his own body. Sam Harris is a faggoty anti-Islamic loon, much more scarier than Dawkins. His lightly pigmented iris/pupils and white color only adds to the fear that we in the East have had to dealt with in the last 300 years of British Colonialism.

What is wrong with you? And why are the mods still keeping quiet or making light of this insanity? None of us agrees with Harris' views regarding religion, but to wish death upon him is ridiculous. If a non Muslim member was making these comments about Muslims, he would be banned in an instant. This is pathetic.

[GuestFellow]

Would you feel the same if he announced that he hopes you die?

Salaam,

Why would he hope that I die? O______o

Besides, I don't believe people when they wish a painful death upon others. Most likely they say it out of anger, which is normal. Even if they do mean it, it's an empty threat.

[Pygoscelis]

Can you show us the actual quote?

Your interpretation of my post makes me question whether your actually understanding what your reading.

Wow really? You've been interacting with this thread. How can you have missed this? If this stuff was said about muslims instead of atheists...

Please someone stomp these atheists and annihilate them once and forever.

I hate them as much as they hate my religion, what part of it you do not get? After all, dont many atheists proclaim that they hate Islam, not Muslims? Well, they should then be ready for the pay back.

Violent? lol, I've committed no violence. I do however wish that mother nature eliminate their genotype.

The moment they stop drawing cartoons, no one would call for their death. Fault is theirs, not mine.

He then went into hyptheticals:

What if all atheists of the world got together and decided that they need to wipe off religion, then would you support annihilation of atheists?

He's talking about anti-theists who wish for the end of religion, and he wishes for the end of their lives.

Now here is your own quote:

I love CosmicPathos. For some reason, he reminds me of my grandpa. My grandpa gets all angry and goes rarrr over anything. The next minute, he's a big softy. It could be a multiple personality disorder like Jekyll and Hyde.

After a guy announces he wishes the anihilation of a group of people, instead of being shocked or offended by this you delcare that you love him and that he goes "rarr" lke some lovable old grandpa and can be a big softy.

[GuestFellow]

Wow really? You've been interacting with this thread. How can you have missed this? If this stuff was said about muslims instead of atheists...

Salaam,

I forgot lol.

He's talking about anti-theists who wish for the end of religion, and he wishes for the end of their lives.

But your not an anti-theist. So his post does not apply to you. :/ His understanding of an anti-theist is a person who wants to eradicate religion.

After a guy announces he wishes the anihilation of a group of people, instead of being shocked or offended by this you delcare that you love him and that he goes "rarr" lke some lovable old grandpa and can be a big softy.

His dramatic changes in his posts (not limited to this topic) reminds me of my grandpa's personality. Nothing more and nothing less.

Anyway, if members find some of the posts offensive, then report it.

[Pygoscelis]

But your not an anti-theist. So his post does not apply to you. :/ His understanding of an anti-theist is a person who wants to eradicate religion.

If you read a few pages back, he defined it as people who hope for the end of Islam. He didn't say they had to be violent or do anything to accomplish this end, just hope for it. I am such a person. And even were I not, does it really matter? He is wishing for the deaths of a group of people..... isn't that enough to deserve contempt?

Anyway, if members find some of the posts offensive, then report it.

Kind of pointless when one moderator calls it a "minor, petty, minute detail" and then another accuses me of getting my "panties all twisted" when I object.

This thread has brought my view on muslims far closer to that of Sam Harris'. If not for the few such as Tyrion here, and the ones I know in real life, I may be writing as Harris does after this.

[Pygoscelis]

psygocells, I want end of an entire group, just like this guy wants an end of an entire religion of a certain group of ppl.

That is not "just like" in any way shape or form. He wants to change minds. You want to end lives.

I wish Sam Harris dies slowly and painfully from glioblastoma multiforme

Which is far more hateful than anything Sam Harris has ever said. And ironically, your posts in this thread would be perfect evidence for Sam Harris' arguments.

Sam Harris is a faggoty anti-Islamic loon

He's not homosexual. Why are you hating on homosexuals now? Do you want them all dead as well?

His lightly pigmented iris/pupils and white color only adds to the fear that we in the East have had to dealt with in the last 300 years of British Colonialism.

Nor is he Brittish. He had nothing to do with colonialism. So now you're being racist too?

I am starting to think this whole thread is an example of Poe's law. I can no longer tell if this is an actual muslim speaking or a cruel parody of one. Are you for real or are you punking us? ;D Please keep going. I'm wondering now what exactly you'd have to say and how far you'd have to take this to get your fellow muslims to object.

['Abd-al Latif]

Enough, enough, enough!

I haven't read anyone's last few post but I've seen enough to know that this thread has derailed completely.

:threadclo