Rise of atheism in pak!

[syed1]

Sad but true..


http://www.thecommentator.com/articl...n#comment_4932

[Muezzin]

Thread approved, on the condition participants keep discussion civil.

[CosmicPathos]

I'd be careful when using the word "rise." Atheism always has been prevalent in Pakis. Communist athiests date back to 60s. There are many old desi atheists we know of. Jawahar Lal Nehru was a staunch atheist.

What we can say is that atheism is becoming more acceptable in Pakistan, at least in educational institutions.

[syed1]

In the article the individual cites that social media has made access to lectures etc by richard dawkins and christopher hitcens more easily accessible as if to say that what arguments they are providing are hidden and hard to seek. As if it is some gem that has to be found. I don't understand how these individuals can watch a lecture or 2 and it completely rattle their faith, its almost to say that they are so gullible. For me personally, I have seen the debates with these characters and I admit sometimes I question the faith but only for a slight second after which, reality kicks in and I confirm the truth through reasoning and the miracle of the Quran which richard and all these atheist can never detest too since they do not read or write or understand arabic. The quran in english is merely not the same and hence they are unable to acknowledge the miracle.

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[Darth Ultor]

I thought Pakistan was one of the most Muslim countries in the world. The whole area that broke away from India after the Brits withdrew. Pakistan/Bangladesh/Kashmir

[CosmicPathos]

I thought Pakistan was one of the most Muslim countries in the world. The whole area that broke away from India after the Brits withdrew. Pakistan/Bangladesh/Kashmir

Yea those were our ancestors who sacrificed. These atheists maintain that the founder of Pakistan wanted a secular state, while it is clear to us that we wanted an islamic state.

I wish Israel bombs Pakistan to oblivion if Pakistan ever becomes a secular atheistic state, of course after practicing Muslims have made hijra out of the country.

['Abd Al-Maajid]

Tanya Smith, President of AAI says:
It is fantastic to see the rise of atheism in Pakistan and I congratulate the Pakistani Atheists and Agnostics on providing a voice of reason in their country. Atheist Alliance International is proud to have the Pakistani Atheists and Agnostics a member.

It is amusing to know that doubtful people can provide the voice of reason to a country. ;D

[Tawangar]

I'd be careful when using the word "rise." Atheism always has been prevalent in Pakis. Communist athiests date back to 60s. There are many old desi atheists we know of. Jawahar Lal Nehru was a staunch atheist.

What we can say is that atheism is becoming more acceptable in Pakistan, at least in educational institutions.

Nehru was Indian and a Kashmiri Pundit by birth.

[Tawangar]

Ghaffar: What inspired you to launch the Pakistani Atheists and Agnostics group?
Hazrat Nakhuda: Atheist groups and movements are a global trend. PAA is a part of that but it is different. The problem is that most of the groups for freethinkers are in secular countries. In my view the battle for reason, rationality and freethinking doesn’t need to be fought (with urgency) in England, Holland or Canada. It is here, in countries like Pakistan, Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia where we need to fight the battle for reason. It is here where the battle will be the most hard-hitting, it is here where reason needs to triumph, and it is here where we can’t afford to lose.
Almost every Muslim-majority country is under-developed economically or socially. I believe that when a religion is adopted by a state it stifles progress. Pakistanis are running 40,000 Madrasas but 30 percent of the children under the age of 5 are malnourished.
We missed our millennium goals to eradicate polio because we couldn’t run the refrigerators that housed the vaccine, but we spent a fortune on the ‘Islamic bomb’.
This country would praise Mumtaz Qadri (the murderer of Salman Taseer), and yet marginalize the only Nobel laureate of the country because he was from minority sect.
If you want to see how much a hindrance religion can be in the progress of a nation, look at Pakistan.
G: What led you to questioning religion and ultimately becoming an Atheist?
HN: I was an Islam Apologist. The thing that got me started was the idea that the reason I was a Muslim was simply because I was born into a Muslim Family.
The nerve to claim one specific religion and one specific God out of hundreds as the real God, and rejecting all others merely because ones parents asserted so, seemed too presumptuous.
That is when I started rejecting and accepting ideas based on arguments rather than scripture. Once you start doing that, it is only a matter of time.
G: Is your approach ontological, scientific or more political?
HN: Initially it was ontological. Now it is more political and scientific.
G: How open are you about your view and your activities in Pakistan?
HN: Within my circle of friends I am very open. My family knows I don’t believe in God but they don’t know that I am in a leading role in such an organization. Obviously I use a pseudonym that alone should tell you how open I can be.
G: Would you say Atheism is on the increase in Pakistan?
HN: It is on the rise. Not as much as I hoped to but it is on the rise. There is a huge amount of closet atheists in Pakistan. For every member of the organization I get an email from five others telling me that they want to join but can’t.
G:And why do you think it’s on the rise?
HN: Why is it on the rise? Well if I had to put forward what I see as the most pertinent reason, it would have to be the internet and social media. We are connected like nothing else. A boy in a small town outside Lahore can watch a lecture by Richard Dawkins, Carl Sagan and Christopher Hitchens. Ten years ago it wasn’t that easy.
Another reason is the fact that Pakistanis are obsessed with trying to prove to the world that Islam is right. When people like that go to online forums to debate other people they get asked questions that, as a born Muslim, they don’t ask themselves.
G: What is the profile of your average member?
HN: The majority of the members are young, between the ages of 16 and 32. Most of them are urban Middle class and Educated; doctors, engineers, computer programmers, lawyers, business persons, artists, and so on. Most of the members also tend to be from the three major cities: Lahore, Karachi & Islamabad.
But we have people from as far away as FATA (Federally Administered Tribal Areas). There is also a huge overseas Pakistani population. Interest areas range from politics, economics to domestic issues.
G: What kind of response have you had from Pakistani Muslims?
HN: So far it is encouraging. But there is the odd individual who expresses his desire to behead me.
G: How much of this trend is attributable to political events and the rise of Islamist militancy in the region?
HN: The rise of Islamist militancy has made more ‘closet’ atheists ‘come out’. Has it made more people in Pakistan become atheist/agnostics? No it hasn’t. It has in some cases put people on the path to questioning their own faith but not to abandoning it. I find that almost all people abandon faith because of scientific and philosophical arguments rather than geo-political events.
G: How has social media and the internet aided your work?
HN: It is the backbone of everything we do. It is how members interact with each other. All this started out on forums and groups on the social media.
G: What are your plans for the future?
HN: Right now most Pakistanis aren’t even aware that there is an option to not believe in God; they don’t question the existence of God and generally don’t believe that Atheists exist. What is more, according to a Gallup poll, 78 percent of Pakistanis believe that a person who leaves Islam should be killed. And finally, Pakistan has very strict blasphemy laws. If I get to change these three things in my life time, I would die a happy man.

[CosmicPathos]

^^ @ tawangar: you are an atheist?

[AhlaamBella]

In the article the individual cites that social media has made access to lectures etc by richard dawkins and christopher hitcens more easily accessible as if to say that what arguments they are providing are hidden and hard to seek. As if it is some gem that has to be found. I don't understand how these individuals can watch a lecture or 2 and it completely rattle their faith, its almost to say that they are so gullible. For me personally, I have seen the debates with these characters and I admit sometimes I question the faith but only for a slight second after which, reality kicks in and I confirm the truth through reasoning and the miracle of the Quran which richard and all these atheist can never detest too since they do not read or write or understand arabic. The quran in english is merely not the same and hence they are unable to acknowledge the miracle.

The trouble with Richard Dawkins, is that his reasoning is surrounded by so much waffle, that to the uneducated ear it sounds like shining reason. Many people has been blind sighted by his appearance of intelligence. If you just wade you way through the waffle, you see the man is just going round in unintelligible, lillogcal circles!

[Tawangar]

^^ @ tawangar: you are an atheist?

No. What gave you that impression, akh?

[CosmicPathos]

because you quoted whole interview of that nakhuda guy. Glad to hear you are still on this side of belief.

[Perseveranze]

800 people? Lol calm down, there's 177million Pakistani's.

And trust me, this recent debate with Hamza vs. their "best" hoody, definitly shaked alot of them up. Usually, Hoody is used to debating ulema, so when he come accross someone like Hamza, he had no answer.

Pakistan just needs more people like that, who can on the intellectual stage challenge the idea's that are brough forth from people like hoody.

[syed1]

recent debate with Hamza vs. their "best" hoody, definitly shaked alot of them up. Usually, Hoody is used to debating ulema, so when he come accross someone like Hamza, he had no answer.

do you have a video for this

[nabeel776]

If anyone has a link to the video between Hamza and Hoody, please share

[Perseveranze]

do you have a video for this

Asalaamu Alaikum,

It's being uploaded, but you can read what happened here.

[Periwinkle18]

its true, theres a uni in Lahore which has teachers who are athiest, Hamza tzortzis came to pak and had a debate with a teacher in tht uni and the teacher called him a liar and went out of the room.

[CosmicPathos]

perseveranze: are you a pakistani?

[Periwinkle18]

do you have a video for this

i hav the article buh not the vid it happend in LUMS