How would I do my five daily prayers if I go to a Catholic school?

[CuriousIncident]

I am currently a Catholic who is considering reverting to Islam. I do not leave school until 2014 though. How would I do my prayers? The school would never allow a person who is not a Catholic to pray to their god.

[Galaxy]

:sl:
If you have no choice then you can put Dhuhr (noon prayer) and Asr (afternoon prayer) together. Fajr you can do before you go to school but it depends on where you live. And I'm sure you'll be home for Maghrib and Isha :shade:

['Abd-al Latif]

If you have no choice then you can put Dhuhr (noon prayer) and Asr (afternoon prayer) together. Fajr you can do before you go to school but it depends on where you live. And I'm sure you'll be home for Maghrib and Isha

This is only for the traveller and no one else.

I am currently a Catholic who is considering reverting to Islam. I do not leave school until 2014 though. How would I do my prayers? The school would never allow a person who is not a Catholic to pray to their god.

Is there no way you can quit the school?

[Predator]

I am currently a Catholic who is considering reverting to Islam. I do not leave school until 2014 though. How would I do my prayers? The school would never allow a person who is not a Catholic to pray to their god.

Do you have any quiet rooms like a maintenance room in the school or a mosque outside where you go and offer prayers ?

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[FindMeAMosque]

You could go into an empty room, but if someone saw you, you will be asked what you are doing. You will then have no choice but to tell them.

So you need to decide on whether you are in a good position with the right support to get you through what might be a difficult period in announcing that you are reverting to Islam.

My Neighbours are Mormon's, which are strict Christians, and his wife reverted to Islam a few months back, She did come and talk to us many times and has now got good links with local sisters and the right help and support. I think it's important to have that support otherwise it can be quite difficult.

[Salahudeen]

Maybe you can learn to pray sitting so its less obvious what your doing? but ask someone if your allowed to do this.

[Abu.Yusuf]

If you have no choice then you can put Dhuhr (noon prayer) and Asr (afternoon prayer) together. Fajr you can do before you go to school but it depends on where you live. And I'm sure you'll be home for Maghrib and Isha

I know you are trying to help, but we have to be careful before giving an answer - in fact this is a fatwa... As for what is known, the joining is for the traveller.

I am currently a Catholic who is considering reverting to Islam. I do not leave school until 2014 though. How would I do my prayers? The school would never allow a person who is not a Catholic to pray to their god.

Hmm.. it sounds like a really tough situation. Doesn't your break time coincide with the prayers? If it does you can maybe pray in that time... the other option is the see if you can find a different school to go to...
Or, which country do you live in? If you live in UK, the school may be obliged to allow you to pray...If so, you can threaten the school with this [im not saying physically arbitrate to the courts, I am just saying you can just threaten them so they allow you to pray]

[CuriousIncident]

[QUOTE=Abu.Yusuf;1504781]I know you are trying to help, but we have to be careful before giving an answer - in fact this is a fatwa... As for what is known, the joining is for the traveller.

My break time does not coincide with the prayers. My parents wouldn't allow me to go to another school just because of my religion. I live in Australia

[~ Sabr ~]

My break time does not coincide with the prayers. My parents wouldn't allow me to go to another school just because of my religion. I live in Australia

How old are you? Could you not go into an empty classroom/closet and pray?

[Muslim Woman]

:sl:


did not read the whole thread . Hope I m not repeating .

don't delay declaring the Shahada ( testimony of faith ) because of this problem - if you are sure that Islam is the Truth .

God Willing , offering salat will be easy for u .

Don't know how but it will - I m sure :)

u will be in our dua / prayer and u also must ask God to help u .

Dont worry about this too much now.

[Naeema]

Can you ask the school for an accommodation? While they do not have to, they may be willing.

[Person1001]

What a tricky situation

[AhlaamBella]

A few people have mentioned that the joining of the prayers is only for the traveller.... I do not remember the proof (please don't pounce on me!!), but I was told that you can join the prayers when it is unavoidable. You just cannot delay Fajr and Asr because this is the time when the angels change over and carry your deeds to Allah.

As for praying in school, you could find an empty classroom. When I was in college, there were a number of small audition rooms down in the drama corridor that not many people went to (and locked from the inside - added bonus). Does your school have anything like this?

May Allah make this easy for you when your intentions are pure :)

[dqsunday]

Allah is the same God followed by the Catholics/Christians and Jews. So in truth, you are not praying to a different God. It is good to pray on time but there is leniency if you are unable to pray at the exact time of the prayer, as long as you do it as soon as possible. I don't remember the exact limits of how long you can wait before praying or if you can pray them earlier if more convenient. I am very new to Islam myself.

If your lunch or spare period in the early afternoon works, just find a quiet corner and do your prayer. If you are 'caught' just say you are praying to God. Allah is the Arabic word for God basically. Or, you can just talk to your teacher/principal and tell them you are a muslim and would like to have 10 minutes to pray in the early afternoon and a place to do it. They may allow it, simply because you asked. If not maybe they will expel you and you can go to a public school instead or one more tolerant to Muslims.

You can also check the Board of Education website/rules for Catholic schools in Australia in regards to non Catholic students...I am from Canada and I did go to Catholic school from kindergarden to grade 8, no Muslims there but there were Jewish students and their holidays etc were honored. (basically they were excused to take different days off and from participating in the Catholic rituals in school). This was quite some time ago to.

[GuestFellow]

Salaam,

Can members start presenting evidence please. Evidence from Islamic scholars.

[Who Am I?]

*quietly exits the thread backstage*

Carry on.... :hmm:

[Insaanah]

*quietly exits the thread backstage*

Carry on.... :hmm:

No, please stay. We're all learning here, that's what we're all here for. So don't exit the thread, but stay, read, lurk if needs be, and learn.

[Who Am I?]

No, please stay. We're all learning here, that's what we're all here for. So don't exit the thread, but stay, read, lurk if needs be, and learn.

*is around silently*

:p

[GuestFellow]

*quietly exits the thread backstage*

Carry on.... :hmm:

Salaam,

Sorry, I hope my post did not make you feel awkward/offended. My post was directed to everyone.

[Jalal~]

@ O.P. - well, how sure can you be? in usa, schools arent allowed to be completely for one religion so that all students have equal opportunities to follow whatever they want.
so if the same rule applies in australia, then they cant deny letting you pray. Ask some of your kinder teachers if they would let you go into a seperate room (like chem lab, bio lab, etc.) and the end of class. im sure there are at least one or two lazy teachers in your school who dont teach during the whole class time.

[CuriousIncident]

This is still one of the things that is stopping me from reverting to Islam.

There is a Muslim student at school. He does not do the formal prayers (prostrating, etc) required in Islam at the right times. Instead, he does a little prayer to Allah at certain times when everyone else is praying. He does not participate in Ramadan or cover himself from the navel to below the knees though so I am not sure if I should copy what he does if I become a Muslim since he probably isn't a very good role model. Should I do what he does for prayers? Or are Muslims supposed to do the formal prayers at the correct times no matter what?

I could always ask if I can use an empty room to pray but I doubt they will allow it since it is a Catholic school and being Catholic/Orthodox was one of the enrollment requirements for the school :(

[Aprender]

How long do you have left at the school?

[Hulk]

There is a Muslim student at school. He does not do the formal prayers (prostrating, etc) required in Islam at the right times. Instead, he does a little prayer to Allah at certain times when everyone else is praying. He does not participate in Ramadan or cover himself from the navel to below the knees though so I am not sure if I should copy what he does if I become a Muslim since he probably isn't a very good role model. Should I do what he does for prayers? Or are Muslims supposed to do the formal prayers at the correct times no matter what?

I could always ask if I can use an empty room to pray but I doubt they will allow it since it is a Catholic school and being Catholic/Orthodox was one of the enrollment requirements for the school

Muslims are supposed to try their best at praying at the right times, covering what needs to be covered etc. If the person in your school has not been so tight on these areas then maybe he is on his own journey to try and improve himself. It's different for everyone bro, we don't know what is in his heart.

Some converts, from the day they convert they have no problem doing all five prayers on a daily basis. Some converts take a little more time. It's the same for those in muslim families as well.

I would suggest you try join a class on Islam perhaps it would be able to benefit you greatly.

I have been in the presence who no matter what situation they were in at the time, the moment the time for prayer comes in they will go and do their prayer. I've also been in the presence of some other muslims who wait until they are done with whatever situation they are in then they will do their prayer (before the time for next prayer comes in). It takes a lot of conviction to be able to just drop whatever you are doing at the time to make time for your Lord.

We are after all reminded that this life is temporary and that we should not be too attached to the temporary life, the real life is in the hereafter. There are those who firm in their beliefs of living for the hereafter, there are some who struggle but still with the right intention. In the end, we are all on a gradual transition to either a better us or a worse us.

InshaAllah it is for the better.:statisfie

[GuestFellow]

http://islamqa.info/en/ref/100627/praying later

EVIDENCE, EVIDENCE, EVIDENCE, EVIDENCE, EVIDENCE, EVIDENCE, EVIDENCE!!!
Hope this helps. Use IslamQA to get more answers about praying namaz.

[dqsunday]

I think the best thing to do is find out the actual rules of your local education system. Being a minor you really didn't have much choice in the school you ended up in but you still have your own individual rights and its not like you are expecting the school to bend over backwards to accommodate you. Worse comes to worse, when it comes time to pray, ask to go to the bathroom. You have to do wudu anyway, and just borrow the handicap stall (which is typically bigger so gives you more floor space) Do your prayer and return to class. This way you are meeting your requirements as God requires but not inconveniencing the school.

If there is room in the board of education regulations, even for Catholic type schools to allow students of different nominations/religions who are in the school to be allowed have a few minutes a day to do what is required by their religion, you can always point that out. As you do have a fellow Muslim, perhaps you can ban together and arrange to do prayers together at school or even form committee to ensure you are able to pray that once a day that falls during typical school hours.

Lastly work with your parents about allowing you to go to public school or any other school that will grant you freedom of religion.

[Insaanah]

Assalaamu alaikum sister,

Worse comes to worse, when it comes time to pray, ask to go to the bathroom. You have to do wudu anyway, and just borrow the handicap stall (which is typically bigger so gives you more floor space) Do your prayer and return to class. This way you are meeting your requirements as God requires but not inconveniencing the school.

Prayer isn't valid in a bathroom, so that won't be an option.

Here is the relevant hadeeth:

Abu Sa'eed Al-Khudri narrated that Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said: "All of the earth is a Masjid (place of prayer) except for the graveyard and the washroom." (Sahih, Jaami' at-Tirmidhi Vol. 1, Book 2, Hadith 317, Sunan Ibn Majah Vol. 1, Book 6, Hadith 745)

And Allah knows best.

[dqsunday]

Assalaamu alaikum sister,



Prayer isn't valid in a bathroom, so that won't be an option.

Here is the relevant hadeeth:

Abu Sa'eed Al-Khudri narrated that Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said: "All of the earth is a Masjid (place of prayer) except for the graveyard and the washroom." (Sahih, Jaami' at-Tirmidhi Vol. 1, Book 2, Hadith 317, Sunan Ibn Majah Vol. 1, Book 6, Hadith 745)

And Allah knows best.

Thank you for pointing this out... now I know why I had that little itch in the back of my head when I wrote my above post. So definitely NO to the bathroom prayer.

Perhaps back of the library or a study room if your school library has one? I am sure there has to be some small not often used room you can slip in for 10 minutes to pray. Behind the stage in the Gym may be good too. I am sure you could find a spot to slip into, even if you use the excuse of a bathroom break or go between classes or first spare time you have closest to the time for the afternoon prayer.

[CuriousIncident]

How long do you have left at the school?

Until the end of 2014.

[Abu.Yusuf]

:sl:

Just pray in your head, dude. God will hear it.

I do this in the car and also at work sometimes. They all count...

I was reading the replies but had to stop at this. SubhaanAllaah, I already mentioned that we should not be giving out fatawaa. Islaam cannot be made up on the spot to suit our needs. Yes there is leniency in some cases, but we do not define those limits. If everyone gives out a different solution, without refering to the texts, then this would cause confusion for new Muslims, as well as other than them.

You cant pray in your head or in the car as a general rule. In cases where you can, you need a Scholar who is qualified to give a Fatwa


However, I hope Allaah makes the path of Paradise easy for you. Best option is the ask Allaah for support and guidance and He would show you the way to go forward in ways none of us would have imagined

[~ Sabr ~]

Assalaamu alaikum sister,



Prayer isn't valid in a bathroom, so that won't be an option.

Here is the relevant hadeeth:

Abu Sa'eed Al-Khudri narrated that Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said: "All of the earth is a Masjid (place of prayer) except for the graveyard and the washroom." (Sahih, Jaami' at-Tirmidhi Vol. 1, Book 2, Hadith 317, Sunan Ibn Majah Vol. 1, Book 6, Hadith 745)

And Allah knows best.

Question:I was wondering if when travelling especially in the city, and if it were difiicult to find a place to pray salah is it permissible to pray salaah in the disable toilet room as the room would be bigger and private and ample space would be available. Also if there is any other advice you could give regarding the issue of finding a suitable place to pray.


Answer
It is highly possible to find a suitable place whilst travelling for prayers. There are many parks and also rooms in train platforms etc. to perform Salaah. However, as you have asked, if there is no resort and no place at all, then it will be permissible for you to perform Salaah in a disabled toilet making sure it is clean.

Mufti Yaseen Shaikh
Answer Approved by Shaikhul Hadeeth Mufti Farooq

Source: http://www.muftisays.com/qa/question/66/answered-i-was-wondering-if-when-travelling.html


------------------------------------------------------

As for praying in the bathroom, that is not allowed, whether it is a place that is only for bathing or it is a place for relieving oneself, because it is the abode of the devils and the place where ‘awrahs are uncovered. Al-Tirmidhi (317), Abu Dawood (492) and Ibn Maajah narrated from Abu Sa‘eed al-Khudri (may Allah be pleased with him) that he said: The Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “All the earth is a place of prayer except graveyards and bathrooms.” The hadeeth was classed as saheeh by Ibn Hibbaan and al-Albaani in Saheeh Sunan al-Tirmidhi.

This hadeeth indicates that prayers offered in the bathroom are not valid, hence it is not permissible to do that except in the case of necessity, such as if the harm that will befall you from your parents is extreme and you cannot pray anywhere else, even by putting prayers together as mentioned above. In that case it is permitted for you to pray in the bathroom.

Source: http://islamqa.info/en/ref/153572

[Galaxy]

I heard that you can combine prayers if it brings hardship but I was wrong. I'm sorry.

[Hulk]

Just to share with you guys there were times during the Prophet's (pbuh) lifetime where they would pray while they are fighting in battle! If I am not mistaken there were also times they prayed while riding on their camels. Oh and sis Galaxy I think combining of prayers is allowed when one is a traveller, which in such a case makes combining prayers easy as one wouldn't be very familiar with foreign areas. Whether it is permissible to do so in other circumstances I am not sure but I think in such cases we have to define what is hardship. God knows best! :statisfie

[sur]

This is only for the traveller and no one else.

Prophet combined prayers while he was traveling, this does not mean that it was ONLY for traveling, it shows that we can combine prayers under constraints... Traveling was one example...

If we were to take thing that literally, then we cannot use tooth brush because Prophet only used miswaak, we cannot ride motor vehicles because Prophet only used camels/horses/donkeys... We cannot wear pants because Prophet did NOT wear them... We cannot use gas-stoves because Prophet never used them ...

My break time does not coincide with the prayers. My parents wouldn't allow me to go to another school just because of my religion. I live in Australia

Each prayer has plenty of time, only Maghrib has short period to offer...
= = = = = = =


Fajr: Dawn -till- sun starts to rise out of horizon.
Zuhr: Sun crosses vertex of sky(Bukhari:12:738) -till- shadow of stick equals twice it's length.
Asr: Shadow of stick equals twice it's length -till- sun starts to dip in the horizon.
Maghrib: Sun completely sets(Bukhari:10:536)-till- Yellow/Red/Orange light at horizon gone.
Isha: After Maghrib -till- preferrably before midnight.

= = = = =


Sahih Bukhari:10:536:Narrated Salama: We used to pray the Maghrib prayer with the Prophet when the sun disappeared from the horizon.

Bukhari:10:557
Allah's Apostle said, 'Do not pray at the time of sunrise and at the time of sunset.' " Ibn 'Umar said, "Allah's Apostle said, 'If the edge of the sun appears (above the horizon) delay the prayer till it becomes high, and if the edge of the sun disappears, delay the prayer till it sets (disappears completely).' "


Sahih Bukhari:12:738:Narrated Saiyar bin Salama: My father and I went to Abu Barza-al-Aslami to ask him about the stated times for the prayers. He replied, "The Prophet used to offer the Zuhr prayer when the sun just declined from its highest position at noon; the 'Asr at a time when if a man went to the farthest place in Medina (after praying) he would find the sun still hot (bright). (The sub narrator said: I have forgotten what Abu Barza said about the Maghrib prayer). The Prophet never found any harm in delaying the 'Isha' prayer to the first third of the night and he never liked to sleep before it and to talk after it. He used to offer the morning prayer at a time when after finishing it one could recognize the person sitting beside him and used to recite between 60 to 100 verses in one or both the Rakat."

Malik Mauta:1:9:-Yahya related to me from Malik from Yazid ibn Ziyad that Abdullah ibn Rafi, the mawla of Umm Salama, the wife of the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, asked Abu Hurayra about the time of the prayer. Abu Hurayra said, "Let me tell you. Pray dhuhr when the length of your shadow matches your height, asr when your shadow is twice your height, maghrib when the sun has set, isha in the first third of the night, and subh in the very first light of dawn," i.e. when the dawn has definitely come.

[glo]

I am currently a Catholic who is considering reverting to Islam. I do not leave school until 2014 though. How would I do my prayers? The school would never allow a person who is not a Catholic to pray to their god.

Where do you live, CuriousIncident?

As far as I know, here in the UK, schools are required to meet the spiritual needs of their students. Either there is a prayer room or students can go home for prayer. (I will try to find out some more, if you like. Unless you don't live in the UK, in which case it's of no use to you)

In my experience faith based schools are often more sympathetic to the religious needs of their pupils than secular schools are. Often religious parents of other faiths choose to send their children to Christians schools - because they know that the subject of faith and God will not be ignored!

If you have been a student at this school for a while and now you have converted, of course people may ask questions and it may cause a stir ... but that a different story.

P.S. Just read that you are in Australia ...

[Imaduddin]

Hi CuriousIncident, I am happy for you that you want to accept Islam. I would advise you not to take that other Muslim at your school as a role model.

Maybe I am writting a little too late (sorry new member) but I would highly encourage you to take the first step and accept Islam. You never know when death will come, it is always un-anounced. If you accept Islam all your sins will be forgiven so if death comes (not trying to scare you or anything but think long term) then you will free of sins.

Once you accept Islam, go speak to the principal and tell him/her your situation, I can guarantee you that they will give you a room to pray in. It is highly unlikely that they will not, it is against Australian law to deny your right to practice your religion and they cannot expel you due to that, If they do not give you a room, let me know which city you live in exactly and the school name and I will find a solution for you mate.

[CuriousIncident]

Thank you everyone for the advice. I am still considering Islam and I am very confused regarding my faith so I believe that I need some time :)

By the way, the Muslim at my school that I mentioned, is he a real Muslim and is he committing any sins?

[Hulk]

We try to help as much as we can InshaAllah. It's is not in our place to say whether anyone is muslim or not, we don't know what is in their heart. If he says he is muslim then he is muslim, as long as he believes the Shahada(There is no God but God and Muhammad pbuh is His Messenger).

And everyone commits sins, whether intentionally or not :statisfie

The key is to realise our wrongdoings and repent.

[crimsontide06]

In my opinion you should be able to do it before/after school. I'm using Logic...God expects us to use our brains.