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creative
03-14-2012, 04:33 PM
I read the newspapers daily and sometimes i read stories about suicide bombers etc. Why do muslims do this?
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Marina-Aisha
03-15-2012, 09:25 PM
I would also like to know this
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User29123
03-15-2012, 10:06 PM
In places like Iraq / Afghan we could never comment on the true situation, it could have been a Christian or the Americans could have done it, we have seen in the past where they blame Muslims for such acts (9/11 is one). It could also be stereotyping if you keep labelling someone your a terrorist or murder they may feel that way and carry out those actions. It could just be plain depression too.
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ardianto
03-16-2012, 12:49 AM
:sl:

Why Muslims kill other Muslims?, why Christians kill other Christians?, why Muslims kill Christians? why Christians kill Muslims?, why Muslims or Christians kill people from other religions?, why people from other religions kill Muslims or Christians?.

All of these questions have the same answer. One party want another party to follow what they want, but another party refuse. So, the first party force the second party with violence, the second party fight back.

In this situation every tie that bind them is nothing. There's no brother in faith, there's no brother in ethnic, there's no brother in ideology, just the enemy.
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
03-16-2012, 01:02 AM
Greetings of peace

I've read the Qur'aan and a number of ahadeeth and they've not encouraged or adviced muslims to kill innocents or take life of one's own self. Is it wise to learn about Islaam from the newspaper?

format_quote Originally Posted by creative
Why do muslims do this?
Muslim's aren't suppose to do this, and please be careful with your use of words when saying 'muslim's it suggests your including the whole of the muslim nation, it is either those who've lacked in knowledge or misinterpretation, when in fact they need to be corrected, taught or just like anti-islam individual who likes to 'teach' about islaam with his own interpretation, while he's mis-quoting verses out of context from the Qur'aan or situations as it suits him!

In order to prove muslims actually do this, you have to atleast back it up with evidence.

I suggest you study your deen inshaa'Allaah as it states 'islam' under your avatar. To learn your deen it is better to go to a knowledgeable individual, in this case a muslim scholar.

If you go back to the teachings of the prophet Muhammad (pbuh), tell me did he Sallaahu 'Alaayhi wa salam advice/encourage us muslim's to go on killing each other?! answer is no! So just because some 'muslim's do a certain wrong, does not in the slightest mean Islaam teaches to be this or that way or that every muslim is like that.

In fact these guy's who are fighting are going against the teachings of RasoolAllaah Sallaahu 'Alaayhi wa salam and his rabb!

Keep in mind, there's a reason to why were accountable for our own deeds.

They do fight, yes a fact, but doesn't just exist amongst muslims, it exists amongst the entire human race, from every corner of this earth, human's get's angry including muslims, but doesn't mean it's always good. good rarely ever comes out of anger that is expressed in action but we as human's all have weaknesses, regardless of race, ethnicity, faith etc etc. But we also have the ability to strive on improving ourselves and controlling ourself.

I'm not sure if i've answered your question completely, and i hope i've made sense, and correct me if i've misunderstood you in any way at all.
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CosmicPathos
03-16-2012, 04:21 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ğħαrєєвαħ
In fact these guy's who are fighting are going against the teachings of Rasoolllaah Sallaahu 'Alaayhi wa salam and his rabb!
In fact that is what they say about ppl like yourself or others who are against suicide bombing. Who is right?
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TrueStranger
03-16-2012, 05:17 AM
I can not stand these Muslims who blow up themselves and innocent Muslims in the middle of universities, streets, markets, and the list goes on. Let's not forget the third Caliph was killed by Muslims.

Expect anything from humans, regardless of their creed, race, gender, and age.
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CosmicPathos
03-16-2012, 05:19 AM
you see the people killed as innocents, but they dont see them as innocents in the very first place. According to them, a person who works for an American firm becomes waajib ul qatl because this "Muslim" is providing his services to kaafirs' benefit, the very kaafirs who indirectly kill other Muslims.
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TrueStranger
03-16-2012, 05:22 AM
They are obviously as blind as a bat. Do you think mothers, fathers, and widows want to hear about their perverted vision of the world?

And who are you to speak for those who blow themselves up when they are mostly surrounded by 100% Muslims?

American firm? They attack people who have nothing to do with America/The West or even know how to spell America. Stop presenting their twisted explanations. It's an insult to the innocent Muslims who had their bodies blown into pieces while earning their livings.

Play the devil's advocate another day with another topic.
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CosmicPathos
03-16-2012, 05:25 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
They are obviously as blind as a bat. Do you think mothers, fathers, and widows want to hear about their perverted vision of the world?

And who are you to speak for those who blow themselves up when they are mostly surrounded by 100% Muslims?
i dont know what fathers and mothers want to hear. but there is some truth to the fact that if you work for kaafir companies, you are supporting and strengthening the kaafirs by your skills. these kaafirs, one way or another, end up killing muslims. so knowingly or unknowingly, you are supporting it, in globalized world.

i am not speaking for anyone. I am just stating what they think and why they dont see me or you as "innocent." we are probably waajib ul qatl just because we decided to live among kaafirs in their countries rather than among muslims in muslims lands.
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TrueStranger
03-16-2012, 05:28 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
i dont know what fathers and mothers want to hear. but there is some truth to the fact that if you work for kaafir companies, you are supporting and strengthening the kaafirs by your skills. these kaafirs, one way or another, end up killing muslims. so knowingly or unknowingly, you are supporting it, in globalized world.

i am not speaking for anyone. I am just stating what they think.

Stop presenting illogical and flawed views of idiots who kill Muslims DIRECTLY, while blaming those same Muslims they massacred for supposedly killing Muslims "INDIRECTLY".

I know quite well what their views and perceptions are, and presenting them does not change the fact that they are extremely wrong.
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CosmicPathos
03-16-2012, 05:34 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
Stop presenting illogical and flawed views of idiots who kill Muslims DIRECTLY, while blaming those same Muslims they massacred for supposedly killing Muslims "INDIRECTLY".
i dont see any flaws or illogical nature of them. i just find them to be against Quran. Perhaps you might want us to show the illogical nature before we begin to take you seriously?
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TrueStranger
03-16-2012, 05:40 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
i dont see any flaws or illogical nature of them. i just find them to be against Quran. Perhaps you might want us to show the illogical nature before we begin to take you seriously?


If you can not use your God given brain to understand how killing people convicted of no crime based on "perception" of supposed wrongdoings is naturally flawed, then we can not take you serious.


Like I said before, play the devil's advocate when you see a sister, brother, father, mother, or even a child of yours blown into pieces and then we will see how much you will entertain their "logical" views.

G'night
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CosmicPathos
03-16-2012, 07:01 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
If you can not use your God given brain to understand how killing people convicted of no crime based on "perception" of supposed wrongdoings is naturally flawed, then we can not take you serious.


Like I said before, play the devil's advocate when you see a sister, brother, father, mother, or even a child of yours blown into pieces and then we will see how much you will entertain their "logical" views.

G'night
logical fallacy. appeal to emotion.

my God given brain tells me that first murder was done by the son of the very first Prophet Adam. Its what makes us humans. Murder is wrong. But these people dont believe they are murdering. They believe they are doing qital fi sabeel Allah. Of course a murderer doesnt believe that he is doing qitaal for Allah. But these guys believe so. In their world, they are right.

and i can see why they do it. they see Muslim youngsters dying to work for Micorsoft but none wanting to be imaam of masjid, so I guess they react to that reality of life by shunning all things of kufaar.
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ardianto
03-16-2012, 08:35 AM
Friday noon, 15 April 2011.

A guy entered a masjid in Cirebon city police station, Indonesia. He sat with other jama'ah, nothing happened. However, when jama'ah started the first raka'ah of salah jum'ah, he pushed a button on his belly. The bomb under his shirt exploded and killed him. Amazingly, people around him were only wounded, but saved.

Later he's known as a member of a Muslim organization in Cirebon city. So, news reporter visited and asked the head of organization.
"Is he a member in your organization"
"Not again. He left us and establish his own group" the head of organization replied.
"Why?"
"He doesn't match again with us. He has been turn into radical, call other Muslims as kufar, said the masjid in Cirebon police station as kufar's masjid".
"When he began turn into radical?"
"Since he learned Islam from internet"
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
03-16-2012, 10:25 AM
As'Salaamu Alaaykum

format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
In fact that is what they say about ppl like yourself or others who are against suicide bombing. Who is right?
The statement you quoted from my post, was referring to those muslims who are fighting each other, is that correct? are we taught to fight each other or make peace? This isn't even about suicide bombing or fighting against the enemy or for the sake of defense etc.

Regards to the permissibility of suicide bombing provide your evidence inshaa'Allaah.. I am interested to know if there is any evidence supporting this, perhaps due to my lack of knowledge.

I understand there are scholars who class suicide as forbidden in all cases, while other's allow it as a last resort.

What is your view on this video?




Jazakallaahu Khaayr.
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TrueStranger
03-16-2012, 02:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
logical fallacy. appeal to emotion.

my God given brain tells me that first murder was done by the son of the very first Prophet Adam. Its what makes us humans. Murder is wrong. But these people dont believe they are murdering. They believe they are doing qital fi sabeel Allah. Of course a murderer doesnt believe that he is doing qitaal for Allah. But these guys believe so. In their world, they are right.

and i can see why they do it. they see Muslim youngsters dying to work for Micorsoft but none wanting to be imaam of masjid, so I guess they react to that reality of life by shunning all things of kufaar.

Appeal to emotion? Does the subject has any?

Stop fabricating lies for the sake of murderous individuals who kill innocent Muslims who never heard of Microsoft. When did they attack any Microsoft companies or Muslims working for Microsoft? The answer is ANDA!

Murder doesn't make us human, it dehumanizes us. Killing someone in an Islamic way is not murder. Anyways, stop trying to hide under the pretext that you are stating "what they think", you are stating your views not theirs on this board. Typical of you.
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Abu.Yusuf
03-16-2012, 03:54 PM
regarding suicide bombings in places where innocent people are located [market, school etc], most liekly these are done by the Americans and their allies themselves. This is propaganda against the Muslims who are fighting them back [i.e Taliban in afghanistan] and it is all part of their illegal war.
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CosmicPathos
03-16-2012, 03:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
Murder doesn't make us human, it dehumanizes us
huh, how so? what do you mean by dehumanized? So having sexual desires is also dehumanization or you'd accept it as part of being a human, only since you probably have them too? Or desires for companionship? Or desires for material wealth? Or desires for looking good in the mirror and to others?

These guys desire to destroy the kufaar, so they do it in whatever way they can.
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CosmicPathos
03-16-2012, 04:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
Anyways, stop trying to hide under the pretext that you are stating "what they think", you are stating your views not theirs on this board. Typical of you.
ad hominem personal attacks. Mods, take note.
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TrueStranger
03-16-2012, 05:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abu.Yusuf
regarding suicide bombings in places where innocent people are located [market, school etc], most liekly these are done by the Americans and their allies themselves. This is propaganda against the Muslims who are fighting them back [i.e Taliban in afghanistan] and it is all part of their illegal war.

I thought that too, and countless other reasons at the beginning. But honestly, there are Muslims who blow themselves up in markets, schools, neighborhoods and their group leader (sic) declares their supposed victory.
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جوري
03-16-2012, 05:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abu.Yusuf
regarding suicide bombings in places where innocent people are located [market, school etc], most liekly these are done by the Americans and their allies themselves. This is propaganda against the Muslims who are fighting them back [i.e Taliban in afghanistan] and it is all part of their illegal war.

In Syria, the world appears through a glass, darkly. As dark as the smoked windows of the car which takes me to a building on the western side of Damascus where a man I have known for 15 years - we shall call him a "security source", which is the name given by American correspondents to their own powerful intelligence officers - waits with his own ferocious narrative of disaster in Iraq and dangers in the Middle East.
His is a fearful portrait of an America trapped in the bloody sands of Iraq, desperately trying to provoke a civil war around Baghdad in order to reduce its own military casualties. It is a scenario in which Saddam Hussein remains Washington's best friend, in which Syria has struck at the Iraqi insurgents with a ruthlessness that the United States wilfully ignores. And in which Syria's Interior Minister, found shot dead in his office last year, committed suicide because of his own mental instability.
The Americans, my interlocutor suspected, are trying to provoke an Iraqi civil war so that Sunni Muslim insurgents spend their energies killing their Shia co-religionists rather than soldiers of the Western occupation forces. "I swear to you that we have very good information," my source says, finger stabbing the air in front of him. "One young Iraqi man told us that he was trained by the Americans as a policeman in Baghdad and he spent 70 per cent of his time learning to drive and 30 per cent in weapons training. They said to him: 'Come back in a week.' When he went back, they gave him a mobile phone and told him to drive into a crowded area near a mosque and phone them. He waited in the car but couldn't get the right mobile signal. So he got out of the car to where he received a better signal. Then his car blew up."
Impossible, I think to myself. But then I remember how many times Iraqis in Baghdad have told me similar stories. These reports are believed even if they seem unbelievable. And I know where much of the Syrian information is gleaned: from the tens of thousands of Shia Muslim pilgrims who come to pray at the Sayda Zeinab mosque outside Damascus. These men and women come from the slums of Baghdad, Hillah and Iskandariyah as well as the cities of Najaf and Basra. Sunnis from Fallujah and Ramadi also visit Damascus to see friends and relatives and talk freely of American tactics in Iraq.
"There was another man, trained by the Americans for the police. He too was given a mobile and told to drive to an area where there was a crowd - maybe a protest - and to call them and tell them what was happening. Again, his new mobile was not working. So he went to a landline phone and called the Americans and told them: 'Here I am, in the place you sent me and I can tell you what's happening here.' And at that moment there was a big explosion in his car."
Just who these "Americans" might be, my source did not say. In the anarchic and panic-stricken world of Iraq, there are many US groups - including countless outfits supposedly working for the American military and the new Western-backed Iraqi Interior Ministry - who operate outside any laws or rules. No one can account for the murder of 191 university teachers and professors since the 2003 invasion - nor the fact that more than 50 former Iraqi fighter-bomber pilots who attacked Iran in the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war have been assassinated in their home towns in Iraq in the past three years.
Amid this chaos, a colleague of my source asked me, how could Syria be expected to lessen the number of attacks on Americans inside Iraq? "It was never safe, our border," he said. "During Saddam's time, criminals and Saddam's terrorists crossed our borders to attack our government. I built a wall of earth and sand along the border at that time. But three car bombs from Saddam's agents exploded in Damascus and Tartous- I was the one who captured the criminals responsible. But we couldn't stop them."
Now, he told me, the rampart running for hundreds of miles along Syria's border with Iraq had been heightened. "I have had barbed wire put on top and up to now we have caught 1,500 non-Syrian and non-Iraqi Arabs trying to cross and we have stopped 2,700 Syrians from crossing ... Our army is there - but the Iraqi army and the Americans are not there on the other side."
Behind these grave suspicions in Damascus lies the memory of Saddam's long friendship with the United States. "Our Hafez el-Assad [the former Syrian president who died in 2000] learnt that Saddam, in his early days, met with American officials 20 times in four weeks. This convinced Assad that, in his words, 'Saddam is with the Americans'. Saddam was the biggest helper of the Americans in the Middle East (when he attacked Iran in 1980) after the fall of the Shah. And he still is! After all, he brought the Americans to Iraq!"
So I turn to a story which is more distressing for my sources: the death by shooting of Brigadier General Ghazi Kenaan, former head of Syrian military intelligence in Lebanon - an awesomely powerful position - and Syrian Minister of Interior when his suicide was announced by the Damascus government last year.
Widespread rumours outside Syria suggested that Kenaan was suspected by UN investigators of involvement in the murder of the former Lebanese prime minister Rafik Hariri in a massive car bomb in Beirut last year - and that he had been "suicided" by Syrian government agents to prevent him telling the truth.
Not so, insisted my original interlocutor. "General Ghazi was a man who believed he could give orders and anything he wanted would happen. Something happened that he could not reconcile - something that made him realise he was not all-powerful. On the day of his death, he went to his office at the Interior Ministry and then he left and went home for half an hour. Then he came back with a pistol. He left a message for his wife in which he said goodbye to her and asked her to look after their children and he said that what he was going to do was 'for the good of Syria'. Then he shot himself in the mouth."
Of Hariri's assassination, Syrian officials like to recall his relationship with the former Iraqi interim prime minister Iyad Alawi - a self-confessed former agent for the CIA and MI6 - and an alleged $20bn arms deal between the Russians and Saudi Arabia in which they claim Hariri was involved.
Hariri's Lebanese supporters continue to dismiss the Syrian argument on the grounds that Syria had identified Hariri as the joint author with his friend, French President Jacques Chirac, of the UN Security Council resolution which demanded the retreat of the Syrians from Lebanese territory.
But if the Syrians are understandably obsessed with the American occupation of Iraq, their long hatred for Saddam - something which they shared with most Iraqis - is still intact. When I asked my first "security" source what would happen to the former Iraqi dictator, he replied, banging his fist into his hand: "He will be killed. He will be killed. He will be killed."

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion...aq-475889.html
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karimium
03-17-2012, 07:35 PM
We're going through a period now, the dark ages where teo or more sides have come into serious conflict. This is just a temporal state until we can settle are differences and let the past go. You have to realise this happens in every society. Europe had to go through that period and fight each other to near extinction in order to settle differences between the powers, nazy germany, imperial france and britain and later on communism too.

There will be people i nIraq who want to settle scores over the injustice caused over the last 2--30 years. A power grab is an issue too.

Ultimately we need to evolve as well, one aspect of modernity which is essential for a civilisation to go forward is to let go of the tribe/clan metality. Run society based on merit. We have too many cleptocracies in the Muslim world (countries run by families) and power brokered out to their own tribes.

This is something that is essential for us, and I think like the commie once said "eggs need to break to make an omlette".

Prophet Muhammad (saw) broke time tribes and unified the arabs. But just a generation or so after his death the tribes rememerged. We live in a more educated world right now, ther eis more transparency and channels for communication. I think we will overcome our issues.
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CosmicPathos
03-19-2012, 03:42 AM
yea modernity only replaces traditional clan and tribe mentality with more professional cliques. I dont see the difference. Different names, same games.
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Sunnie Ameena
03-19-2012, 04:36 PM
i am not speaking for anyone. I am just stating what they think and why they dont see me or you as "innocent.

CosmicPathos, in your statement you say you are not speaking for anyone, then the next statement you are actually saying you know what they think, so you are basically speaking for someone by saying you know what they think and how they feel.
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