Does God/Allah/The Creator only love Muslims ?

[truthseeker63]

Does God/Allah/The Creator only love Muslims ?

[Ramadan90]

:sl:

Allah loves those who worship him, loves him, rely on him and is commited to him.

The Qur’an speaks frequently of Allah’s Love but that love is not unconditional, even for Muslims. Allah’s Mercy, Guidance and Sustenance are granted to every human being, but His Love is reserved for those who work for it.

In Islam, Allah’s Love can only be earned! No one should take it for granted, including Muslims who may like to think that they are especially encompassed in the Love of Allah (swt) just because of their commitment to the faith.

[Abu.Yusuf]

Muslim is a person who submits himself to Allaah alone, and if this is done then yes Allaah would love him.
So to be clear, yes Allaah only loves the Muslims - those who submit to Him alone

[glo]

:sl:

Allah loves those who worship him, loves him, rely on him and is commited to him.

Muslim is a person who submits himself to Allaah alone, and if this is done then yes Allaah would love him.
So to be clear, yes Allaah only loves the Muslims - those who submit to Him alone

That leaves me wondering whether a person can submit to Allah, love him, rely on him and be committed to him without following the guidance of Islam?

I guess what I am asking can one follow Allah (and hence be a Muslim in Allah's eyes) but not follow Islam (in the eyes of Muslims)?

Thoughts?

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[Alpha Dude]

That leaves me wondering whether a person can submit to Allah, love him, rely on him and be committed to him without following the guidance of Islam?

There are certain acts which if done and beliefs if held that 'nullify' the iman ('faith') that a person claims to have.

E.g. believing that 5 time prayer is not necessary will nullify iman. As does believing that it is not mandatory to fast during the month of Ramadan. There are many examples.

So, the answer to your question is no. It's not possible to be considered Muslim by Allah if one has done an act that has nullified the belief. :)

[Hulk]

That leaves me wondering whether a person can submit to Allah, love him, rely on him and be committed to him without following the guidance of Islam?

I guess what I am asking can one follow Allah (and hence be a Muslim in Allah's eyes) but not follow Islam (in the eyes of Muslims)?

Thoughts?

If one believes that there is a God then I think it is the person's responsibility to seek the path in which God intended for him. If not it is like saying you love your parents and yet you disobey them, it would be irresponsible on our end.

God gave us intelligence, I think we should use it to find the true path towards our Creator. It is after all what sets us apart from the other creatures on earth.

It is not really in our place to say who God loves or who God doesn't love. We can say that God loves righteous people, but we don't really know who is righteous because we can't see into people's heart. A person's outward deeds might make him seem righteous to us but if his intentions are in the wrong place then can he really be considered righteous? So we can't really tell who among us is truly righteous, though we can evaluate the outward :statisfie.

[glo]

It is not really in our place to say who God loves or who God doesn't love. We can say that God loves righteous people, but we don't really know who is righteous because we can't see into people's heart. A person's outward deeds might make him seem righteous to us but if his intentions are in the wrong place then can he really be considered righteous?

I agree with that, Hulk (or should that be Shrek ;D?)
After all, God will be the final judge of us all ... all we can do is seek him earnestly and follow His path as best as we can.

[MustafaMc]

That leaves me wondering whether a person can submit to Allah, love him, rely on him and be committed to him without following the guidance of Islam?

I am sure you are familiar with this ayat, but it was what came to mind, And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers. 3:85

I guess what I am asking can one follow Allah (and hence be a Muslim in Allah's eyes) but not follow Islam (in the eyes of Muslims)?

Thoughts?

This question seems to ask, "Are there multiple paths that Allah has given to mankind any of which may be considered equally valid to follow in being obedient to the will of Allah?" I believe that a person should worship Allah in truth and in spirit, meaning in the manner that He has prescribed and with the proper intention. I believe that Islam is the religion that was taught by all of the prophets and that Muhammad was the last. I believe that the path shown by other prophets (including Moses and Jesus) has been corrupted over time and that the path shown by Muhammad has been preserved. In the end, Allah is our judge and I believe that a most important part of that judgement will be how we treated our fellow man and other creatures while we were alive. In this matter, I personally believe that there are many Christians who are very kind and merciful to others, but at the same time that they transgress severely in their beliefs about Jesus. If Allah has willed for us to pray 5 times a day and fast the month of Ramadan in the Islamic manner, then I see that non-Muslims are not following Allah.

[Scimitar]

Simple, Allah loves those who worship HIM the most...

.... that would be the Muslims.

Let's break this down.

Jews: They worship one day of the week, the sabbath. The rest is business as usual. The business of RIBA. Meh?

Christians, once a week too - Sunday service. But the Churches are getting emptier and emptier. And no two Christians ever gave me the same explanation of the trinity... this has got to be a BIG warning sign for Christians, are they so blind? Lent... got borrowed and improved upon by the Muslims (pardon the pun)... I don't know even one Christian who keeps lent.

Muslims, worship Allah 5 times a day, every day - no exceptions. Ramadhan - we fast the whole month. And despite the whole world having it drummed into their heads that Muslims are terrorists, we remain the most patient of people...

If Allah has ordained for you Islam, and you believe in HIM, and you have all your senses intact - then why not just perceive the reality of your own existence? and compare that to the reality of a Muslims existence... the answers should be obvious. Islam is what Allah has chosen for you. Obey. Be saved.

Scimi

[glo]

Lent... got borrowed and improved upon by the Muslims (pardon the pun)... I don't know even one Christian who keeps lent.

Well, here is one who does. And I know plenty of others. :)

Out of interest, are you suggesting that Muslims took the practice of fasting during Lent from the Christian practices they saw around them and turned them into their own practice of Ramadan? :uuh:

Then, to complicate matters, what about Christians who pray five times a day and fast during Ramadan?

I would also like to add that claiming that Jews and Christians only worship God once a week is a HUGE assumption.
We pray to, worship and praise God daily, not just on a Sunday morning ...

[dqsunday]

The Sabbath or Sunday, is the day to go to church and pray. I can't speak for the Jews as I don't know much about the religion, far less than I do Christianity, but I was born Catholic and do recall it was appropriate to give grace at meals, pray before going to bed etc. Though nothing like the 5 prayers of a Muslim and with the hadiths, its pretty much thanking Allah for everything and asking for his help or protection etc. before entering the bathroom, leaving the bathroom, stepping out of the house, returning to the house and just about every aspect of one's everyday life, its recommended to praise Allah in some manner.

Consider:

The Torah = How to Worship Allah version 1.0
The Gospel = How to Worship Allah, version 2.0

The Holy Qur'an = How to Worship Allah, version 3.0

:)

How which version do you think Allah would prefer we use to Worship him in the best way?

[MustafaMc]

Out of interest, are you suggesting that Muslims took the practice of fasting during Lent from the Christian practices they saw around them and turned them into their own practice of Ramadan? :uuh:

No, the pillars of Islam were not borrowed from another religion; however, there are similarities with some as Christianity and Judaism both also had divine origins. Some semblance of the original beliefs and practices of these other religions have been preserved.

Then, to complicate matters, what about Christians who pray five times a day and fast during Ramadan?

Guidance to Islam is not something that can be forced, coerced, or pressured into. It is something that comes only from Allah and why He chooses to guide some and to leave others astray is a mystery to me. I know many Christians who I consider to live better lives than I do, but yet they still believe Jesus is the Son of God. To believe differently calls for a 'paradigm shift' where one has an 'aha moment' and truly sees things differently for the first time. The standing of those before Allah on Judgment Day who are not Muslims remains to be seen. For that matter no Muslim knows whether his own place will be in the Hellfire or in Paradise as we don't know the final state of our faith at our death and we are unable to judge our own heart and intentions. We believe that if we do not ascribe partners with Allah that even the sinful Muslims will eventually be taken from the Hellfire.

I would also like to add that claiming that Jews and Christians only worship God once a week is a HUGE assumption.
We pray to, worship and praise God daily, not just on a Sunday morning ...

I agree that there are many Christians who are sincere in their faith and apply it to their lives. However, they also worship Jesus as God. I often hear phrase like, 'Lord, help me Jesus.' 'Thank you, Jesus.' '... gone to Heaven to be with Jesus.' etc rarely if ever is the Father mentioned except in the opening of their prayers ending with 'In the name of your Son, Jesus, Amen'.

[~ Sabr ~]

Then, to complicate matters, what about Christians who pray five times a day and fast during Ramadan?

Peace glo

There can be a religious Christian who can pray 10 times a day, fast 6 months a year;
and there can be a Muslim who tries his best to pray and fast and does not do all.

The Muslims has a weapon that which without the Christian can never go to Jannah.

La Ilaaha IllAllaah, Muhammad ur RasoolAllaah
There is no God but Allaah, Muhammad is the Messenger of Allaah

[MustafaMc]

Jesus is quoted in the Quran as saying to Allah regarding the Christians, If You punish them, lo! they are Your slaves, and if You forgive them (lo! they are Your slaves). Lo! You, only You, are the Mighty, the Wise. 5:118

The testimony of "La ilaha ill'Allah wa Muhammadan abdahu wa rasool'Allah" is what I pray is in my heart and on my lips throughout my life and upon my death. Those who die without this testimony, according to my belief, will be in a much more precarious situation on that Fateful Day than those who have it. I understand that the shahadah is the single heaviest deed in the balance that Day.

[Scimitar]

Well, here is one who does. And I know plenty of others.

What do you mean worship? Is it ritualistic?

Out of interest, are you suggesting that Muslims took the practice of fasting during Lent from the Christian practices they saw around them and turned them into their own practice of Ramadan?

Nope. Sorry for not being clearer. We as Muslims, were given the command to fast the month of Ramadhan through revelation. I used the term borrowed in a ver VERY loose way. Sorry for confusing you.

Then, to complicate matters, what about Christians who pray five times a day and fast during Ramadan?

What Christians pray 5 times a day? :D Here is the diffference between Christian worship and Muslim Worship. Christianity requires you to go to church once a week. That's it... there you sing songs of praise etc. That is the worship... the rest is prayer, asking Allah to give you this, save you from that... and this continues through the week. heck, I've even witnessed an atheist pray, yup. Kid runs out onto the road , atheist cries "OH GOD" - this is not worship. This is a plea, a prayer.

I would also like to add that claiming that Jews and Christians only worship God once a week is a HUGE assumption.
We pray to, worship and praise God daily, not just on a Sunday morning ...

Again, there is a clear difference between worship... and prayer.

When a Muslim offers his 5 times salah, it is in Arabic, with actions, with prostration to the floor... I don't even understand much arabic, but I had to memorize the surahs in arabic in order to offer salaah (worship)... once the salaah finishes, this is when I make prayer, ie: ask Allah to save me from hellfire etc.

We do this 5 times a day. Worship. Prayers, we make all day long, over most acitivites. Including asking for protection from the sayateen before we enter toilets and stuff like that. Ever aspect of our lives involves prayer... but prayer is not worship. :) they are different.

Scimi

[glo]

We do this 5 times a day. Worship. Prayers, we make all day long, over most acitivites. Including asking for protection from the sayateen before we enter toilets and stuff like that. Ever aspect of our lives involves prayer... but prayer is not worship. they are different.

I agree that Salah is very different to making du'a. I followed the five Islamic prayers pay day last year during Ramadan (as closely to the Islamic way as I felt comfortable as a Christian), and I found it very powerful and very different to simply praying 'Dear God, please give me ...'

However, did you know that many churches are open during every day, and that people can come to pray as they are able to?
Did you know that in the Church of England (and I believe in the Catholic churches and probably other denominations too) prescribed prayers are said at set times during the day? It is the priest's duty to say them on behalf of the community, but members of the congregation are invited to come along and join in.
In the Church of England (for example), the Common Book of Prayer has recorded these prayers, which go through daily patterns and include Bible readings and regular prayers. Except for not including prayer movements, the concept of praying prescribed prayers as an act of duty to God exists in Christianity too.

[tango92]

God will be the judge at the end of the day -

if we truly believed we would worry whether we were loved by god/ followed the path of God rather than bicker about it.

Allah will expose those who only followed their desires and wishful thinking on the day of judgement, if he wills

[Insaanah]

That leaves me wondering whether a person can submit to Allah, love him, rely on him and be committed to him without following the guidance of Islam?

I guess what I am asking can one follow Allah (and hence be a Muslim in Allah's eyes) but not follow Islam (in the eyes of Muslims)?

Say, (O Muhammad, to mankind): If ye love Allah, follow me; Allah will love you and forgive you your sins. Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. (Qur'an 3:31)

Peace.

[Scimitar]

the concept of praying prescribed prayers as an act of duty to God exists in Christianity too.

I agree, prayer does exist in Christianity. but is the method of worship authentic?

how did Jesus pbuh worship God? He prostrated like the Mulims do. Which Christian today would prostrate his head to the floor like Jesus pbuh - I know you have and it's very admirable. But still, your example is still the exception to the rule.

Muhammad confirmed Jesus' teaching, and even the prostration in salah (worship) is revived in Islam. But is remains absent in Christianity.

offtopic, I like the way your brain works. It's simliar to the way mine works I think. :)

Scimi

[glo]

I understand, Scimitar.
To a Muslim no Christian prayer will ever be authentic. That's why I am careful to say that I have not prayed according to what Muslims would consider true Islamic prayer.

I simply wanted to make the point that prescribed prayer does exist in Christianity and that it has a long history. And that Christians don't simply go around 'asking for stuff' ;D (which seemed to be implied by some previous posters)

On the topic of prostration - I found that particularly powerful and do it quite often in my morning prayer even now.

However, I believe that prostration is quite commonly practiced in some Christian denominations.
I remember a man coming into our church, taking his shoes off, walking right up to the altar and prostrating himself. I never found out where he came from and what denomination he belonged to. Although we all looked at each other like 'what's he doing???' it was strangely awesome to watch him ... :statisfie

[CosmicPathos]

glo, let me ask you a question.

Assuming your husband is still an atheist (I am going by past memory, apologies in advance if I have mixed you with someone else), do you think the God you believe in still loves you for being in an intimate relationship, allowed by Him in the form of a marriage between a man and a woman, with a person who rejects Him? How do you reconcile the two? Are such relations allowed by the Church of England? Do you also believe that only those who believe in Jesus will be saved?

[~ Sabr ~]

^ Deep question...

[glo]

glo, let me ask you a question.

Assuming your husband is still an atheist (I am going by past memory, apologies in advance if I have mixed you with someone else), do you think the God you believe in still loves you for being in an intimate relationship, allowed by Him in the form of a marriage between a man and a woman, with a person who rejects Him? How do you reconcile the two? Are such relations allowed by the Church of England? Do you also believe that only those who believe in Jesus will be saved?

First of all, Kudos for having such a good memory, my friend. :)

Those are good questions, Cosmic Pathos, and I don't mind answering them.
However, firstly I don't think my answer would be appropriate for the 'Clarifications about Islam' section and secondly your questions are quite personal - so I would prefer to reply to you in private.
If that's okay with you, I will give it some thought and pm you when I have some time.

[Orangeduck]

Simple, Allah loves those who worship HIM the most...

.... that would be the Muslims.

Let's break this down.

Jews: They worship one day of the week, the sabbath. The rest is business as usual. The business of RIBA. Meh?

Christians, once a week too - Sunday service. But the Churches are getting emptier and emptier. And no two Christians ever gave me the same explanation of the trinity... this has got to be a BIG warning sign for Christians, are they so blind? Lent... got borrowed and improved upon by the Muslims (pardon the pun)... I don't know even one Christian who keeps lent.

Muslims, worship Allah 5 times a day, every day - no exceptions. Ramadhan - we fast the whole month. And despite the whole world having it drummed into their heads that Muslims are terrorists, we remain the most patient of people...

If Allah has ordained for you Islam, and you believe in HIM, and you have all your senses intact - then why not just perceive the reality of your own existence? and compare that to the reality of a Muslims existence... the answers should be obvious. Islam is what Allah has chosen for you. Obey. Be saved.

Scimi

What you said is not accurate at all. WIthout trying to argue, Jews and Christians pray every day. Some more than others. The Orthodox Church teaches us to say the "Jesus Prayer" over 50 times per day, which would mean the Orthodox Church loves God more than muslims do :)

What you are talking about is the weekly service. Muslims have a Friday service, Christians have a Sunday service, so they are equal in that respect. There is a growing trend among Protestant Churches to have 2 services a week...Wednesday and Sunday.

Your idea that muslims worship the most is completely baseless. I'm not trying to argue, but I do like to correct misconceptions and errors (please dont take offense) :)

As for the trinity, the 350 million Orthodox, 1.2 billion Catholics and almost all Protestants have the exact same explination of the Trinity :)

This thread does however, lead to something interesting that I think would be an interesting conversation. Is a deity that only loves those who worship him/her/it worthy of worship? I am not giving my opinion (not yet at least), and I bet most people here will say "yes" (and that is fine if that if your opinion), but wouldn't it be great if a deity had a universal love for all humanity?

[MustafaMc]

What you are talking about is the weekly service. Muslims have a Friday service, Christians have a Sunday service, so they are equal in that respect.

No, they are not equal. Technically, Muslims are supposed to offer their 5 daily salah in the masjid. I don't know the nature of prayer in the Orthodox Church, or in Judaism, but as a convert from Protestant (Baptist) Christianity, I know that the nature of prayer is qualitatively different from Islam.

[Insaanah]

Greetings Orangeduck

The Orthodox Church teaches us to say the "Jesus Prayer" over 50 times per day, which would mean the Orthodox Church loves God more than muslims do

No. Not according to Islam:

http://www.islamicboard.com/clarific...ml#post1518176

Also in the Jesus prayer, you are asking Jesus (peace be upon him) to have mercy on you. As Muslims, we do remembrance of Allah, (zhikr) glorifying and praising Him, asking forgiveness and mercy, throughout the day, as well as prayers/supplications for entering the bathroom, exiting, putting on clothes, entering/leaving the house, before embarking on a journey, for starting any lawful act, on top of the five compulsory prayers, which comes to a lot more than 50 times a day.

We try to emulate the Prophet :saws:

Narrated Abu Huraira: I heard Allah's Apostle :saws: saying." By Allah! I ask for forgiveness from Allah and turn to Him in repentance more than seventy times a day."
(Sahih al Bukhari Vol. 8, Book 75, Hadith 319)

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle :saws: said, "Whoever says, 'Subhan Allah wa bihamdihi,' one hundred times a day, will be forgiven all his sins even if they were as much as the foam of the sea.
(Sahih al Bukhari : Vol. 8, Book 75, Hadith 414)

Se this post too: http://www.islamicboard.com/discover...ml#post1513998

What you are talking about is the weekly service. Muslims have a Friday service, Christians have a Sunday service, so they are equal in that respect.

If you refer to formal prayers in the mosque, led by an imam, then we have that five times a day, not once a week..

Is a deity that only loves those who worship him/her/it worthy of worship? I am not giving my opinion (not yet at least), and I bet most people here will say "yes" (and that is fine if that if your opinion), but wouldn't it be great if a deity had a universal love for all humanity?

Justice is paramount.

[Orangeduck]

No, they are not equal. Technically, Muslims are supposed to offer their 5 daily salah in the masjid. I don't know the nature of prayer in the Orthodox Church, or in Judaism, but as a convert from Protestant (Baptist) Christianity, I know that the nature of prayer is qualitatively different from Islam.

The nature of prayer is the same, but Christians and muslims pray differently. They both pray to honor God and ask for things they need.

And when I said "equal" I was talking about the weekly obligation. Muslims go to a mosque 1 time per week, and Christians go to a Church 1 time per week (but as I said, many Protestants now go 2 times per week ).

If you want to talk about the number of times Christians and muslims pray, then Christians win by a landslide.

Peace

[Orangeduck]

Greetings Orangeduck



No. Not according to Islam:

http://www.islamicboard.com/clarific...ml#post1518176

Also in the Jesus prayer, you are asking Jesus (peace be upon him) to have mercy on you. As Muslims, we do remembrance of Allah, (zhikr) glorifying and praising Him, asking forgiveness and mercy, throughout the day, as well as prayers/supplications for entering the bathroom, exiting, putting on clothes, entering/leaving the house, before embarking on a journey, for starting any lawful act, on top of the five compulsory prayers, which comes to a lot more than 50 times a day.

We try to emulate the Prophet :saws:

Narrated Abu Huraira: I heard Allah's Apostle :saws: saying." By Allah! I ask for forgiveness from Allah and turn to Him in repentance more than seventy times a day."
(Sahih al Bukhari Vol. 8, Book 75, Hadith 319)

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle :saws: said, "Whoever says, 'Subhan Allah wa bihamdihi,' one hundred times a day, will be forgiven all his sins even if they were as much as the foam of the sea.
(Sahih al Bukhari : Vol. 8, Book 75, Hadith 414)

Se this post too: http://www.islamicboard.com/discover...ml#post1513998



If you refer to formal prayers in the mosque, led by an imam, then we have that five times a day, not once a week..



Justice is paramount.

In America and Europe, with full time jobs, virtually no muslim prays 5 times a day, let alone over 50

In Christianity, prayer can be done in seconds and in silence.

Again, I don't intent to argue :)

You don't understand what the Jesus Prayer is. It it a prayer to the One True God

[Insaanah]

In America and Europe, with full time jobs, virtually no muslim prays 5 times a day, let alone over 50

This is completely false, as is this:

Muslims go to a mosque 1 time per week,

They go five times a day, with those who cannot due to work, going at least two to three times a day, with the in between prayers said at work.

and as is this:

If you want to talk about the number of times Christians and muslims pray, then Christians win by a landslide.

Again, completely false.

In Christianity, prayer can be done in seconds and in silence.

As can certain prayers in Islam, as I explained above, and as you habitually ignored.

You don't understand what the Jesus Prayer is. It it a prayer to the One True God

It is prayer to Jesus (peace be upon him). If you believe he's the one true God then you must also deal with the consequences of those beliefs.

Sahih International
And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?'" He will say, "Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen.
I said not to them except what You commanded me - to worship Allah , my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them as long as I was among them; but when You took me up, You were the Observer over them, and You are, over all things, Witness.
If You should punish them - indeed they are Your servants; but if You forgive them - indeed it is You who is the Exalted in Might, the Wise. (5:116-118)

Again, I don't intent to argue

Good, glad to hear it.

Peace.

[Abz2000]

I guess what I am asking can one follow Allah (and hence be a Muslim in Allah's eyes) but not follow Islam (in the eyes of Muslims)?

can anyone follow laws other than those of the land you are in and not be labelled "fundamentalist" / "refuses to integrate" / criminal?

verily the earth belongs to God.

[MustafaMc]

The nature of prayer is the same, but Christians and muslims pray differently. They both pray to honor God and ask for things they need.

No, the prayers are qualitatively different. We do not pray to 'ask for things we need' that is du'a or supplications that are entirely separate issue from salah although I often make du'a when I am in prostration during salah. We perform salah in the exact same manner that Prophet Muhammad (saaws) did 1,400 years ago. For example, we recite portions of the Quran in the revealed language, Arabic, including Surah Al-Fatiha at least 17 times a day.

We stand and say Allahu akbar (Allah is Great), then recite Surah Al-Fatiha before reciting another surah.

Bismi Allahi irrahmani irraheem (In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.)
Alhamdu lillahi rabbi alAAalameen (Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds,)
Irrahmani irraheem (The Beneficent, the Merciful.)
Maliki yawmid-deen (Master of the Day of Judgment,)
Iyyaka na'AAbudu wa iyyaka nastaAAeen (Thee (alone) we worship; Thee (alone) we ask for help.)
Ihdina ssirata almustaqeem (Show us the straight path,)
Sirata allatheena anAAamta AAalayhim ghayri almaghdoobi AAalayhim wala ddalleen (The path of those whom Thou hast favoured; Not the (path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray.)

There are other elements of prayer that are performed the same by Mulsims the world over according to the Sunnah of Muhammad (saaws).

And when I said "equal" I was talking about the weekly obligation. Muslims go to a mosque 1 time per week, and Christians go to a Church 1 time per week (but as I said, many Protestants now go 2 times per week ).

Again, no we are supposed to (obligation) perform the 5 daily prayers in the masjid. When we had an active masjid in the city I live in, I would often go for dawn and night prayers on most days.

If you want to talk about the number of times Christians and muslims pray, then Christians win by a landslide.

I would have to say that this claim is completely baseless.

[MustafaMc]

In America and Europe, with full time jobs, virtually no muslim prays 5 times a day, let alone over 50

I live in USA and I pray 5X every day, including 2 at work.

[جوري]

I don't know any observant working Muslims who don't utilize their lunch break or bathroom breaks to offer prayers.. I hate when ducks are canards unless in a confit!

[Zabel]

No, they are not equal. Technically, Muslims are supposed to offer their 5 daily salah in the masjid. I don't know the nature of prayer in the Orthodox Church, or in Judaism, but as a convert from Protestant (Baptist) Christianity, I know that the nature of prayer is qualitatively different from Islam.

What you know (Baptist) is qualitatively different from the Orthodox Church and Judaism. The latter are much richer in praises, scripture use, meaning, etc. It's like comparing a Baptist service to a Catholic service that lasts 2-3 hours (which Orthodox and at least some Jewish services do). You might consider looking into the Divine Office or Liturgy of the Hours.

[جوري]

What you know (Baptist) is qualitatively different from the Orthodox Church and Judaism. The latter are much richer in praises, scripture use, meaning, etc. It's like comparing a Baptist service to a Catholic service that lasts 2-3 hours (which Orthodox and at least some Jewish services do). You might consider looking into the Divine Office or Liturgy of the Hours.

Jewish prayers resemble that of Muslims (somewhat)



However, there's no point to regressing. It is like offering someone inferior brand HDCV x 20 when you can offer them that which is more effective and direct times 3..

best,

[Zabel]

What you know (Baptist) is qualitatively different from the Orthodox Church and Judaism. The latter are much richer in praises, scripture use, meaning, etc. It's like comparing a Baptist service to a Catholic service that lasts 2-3 hours (which Orthodox and at least some Jewish services do). You might consider looking into the Divine Office or Liturgy of the Hours.

In Judaism, there are a lot of prayers saying blessings for God. Blessed are You, oh L-rd our G-d, King of the Universe, who brings forth... Divine Hours uses scripture like chapters of Psalms, and parts of Acts along with hymns that have more depth than much modern Christian pop music, and various praises being proclaimed.

[Zabel]

Jewish prayers resemble that of Muslims (somewhat)

Nice video. Coptic Christians look like that too during some of the Holy Week services when they prostrate, though my Hebrew is not good enough to recognize the prayer here for verbal comparison.

[جوري]

I am quite familiar with Coptic prayers and it isn't that much different from the standard run of the mill orthodox ones. I think you mistaken 'Coptic' to denote something other than what is apparent to the rest of us. Coptic merely means Egyptian.. they were Copts during the time of Moses as they were during the reign of amon ra.. Of course much of western style christianity was fashioned after that 'sun god' isis/osiris mythology so I can understand your enthusiasm.

best,

[Zabel]

I am quite familiar with Coptic prayers and it isn't that much different from the standard run of the mill orthodox ones. I think you mistaken 'Coptic' to denote something other than what is apparent to the rest of us. Coptic merely means Egyptian.. they were Copts during the time of Moses as they were during the reign of amon ra.. Of course much of western style christianity was fashioned after that 'sun god' isis/osiris mythology so I can understand your enthusiasm.

best,

I meant the Coptic as in Coptic Orthodox, the Miaphysite/Oriental Orthodox church that uses Arabic and Coptic languages and has many stylistic differences to the non-denominational and Baptist churches I have been to. It is relatively run of the mill for an Orthodox church, though they are only one that I have heard of prostrating so far, which was my main point.

I'm curious about your sentence, "Of course much of western style christianity was fashioned after that 'sun god' isis/osiris mythology so I can understand your enthusiasm." As my recent post was the distinguish a bit from some of the modern western style Christianity, can you please clarify what you mean? Please forgive me if this is a silly question. This is not my easiest way of communicating.

[جوري]

I meant the Coptic as in Coptic Orthodox, the Miaphysite/Oriental Orthodox church that uses Arabic and Coptic languages and has many stylistic differences to the non-denominational and Baptist churches I have been to. It is relatively run of the mill for an Orthodox church, though they are only one that I have heard of prostrating so far, which was my main point.

I know what you meant and I wanted to clarify that what you take for granted to mean Christian could probably fly with the Christians of Egypt and their supporters in the U.S but it has no meaning otherwise for us as middle easterners..also 'coptic' language doesn't really exist. They mainly use Arabic, demotic the ancient language of the Copts of Egypt of whom 90% are now Muslim is now largely dead!

I'm curious about your sentence, "Of course much of western style christianity was fashioned after that 'sun god' isis/osiris mythology so I can understand your enthusiasm." As my recent post was the distinguish a bit from some of the modern western style Christianity, can you please clarify what you mean? Please forgive me if this is a silly question. This is not my easiest way of communicating.

It means the whole virgin birth, 'sun God' son of God largely Paganistic rituals of christianity have come from those Egyptian beliefs and probably even an amalgamation of some Sumerian ones. I don't consider modern Judaism or Christianity to be monotheistic.

best

[Zabel]

I know what you meant and I wanted to clarify that what you take for granted to mean Christian could probably fly with the Christians of Egypt and their supporters in the U.S but it has no meaning otherwise for us as middle easterners..also 'coptic' language doesn't really exist. They mainly use Arabic, demotic the ancient language of the Copts of Egypt of whom 90% are now Muslim is now largely dead!

Is there a way I could have worded something better?

It means the whole virgin birth, 'sun God' son of God largely Paganistic rituals of christianity have come from those Egyptian beliefs and probably even an amalgamation of some Sumerian ones. I don't consider modern Judaism or Christianity to be monotheistic.

best

I thought that both Judaism and Islam was strict monotheistic faiths. Why do you hold this view of Judaism? Is it a common view?

[جوري]

Is there a way I could have worded something better?

No and you seem like an affable enough fellow. I wasn't looking to start an argument rather correct the view that Copt= Christian

I thought that both Judaism and Islam was strict monotheistic faiths. Why do you hold this view of Judaism? Is it a common view?

The common view is that Jews & Christians are people of the book. It is a personal view and after having been to catholic school and hanging around amongst Jews that very little of their practices to do at all with Monotheism, with Christianity especially. Judaism I have been finding very occult and loaning itself to magic and search of power through whatever means than pure God worship..

peace

[MustafaMc]

What you know (Baptist) is qualitatively different from the Orthodox Church and Judaism. The latter are much richer in praises, scripture use, meaning, etc.

I don't disagree, but do you honestly believe that a preponderance of Christians perform a ritual prayer of worship 5 times a day?

We pray according to the method prescribed by Prophet Muhammad (saaws). What is the origin for how you pray? Jesus provided some instruction as in the Lord's Prayer, but what determines the cleansing preparation, the timing of prayer, the direction you face, the words you recite, the language you use, and the physical positions during? How do you enter the state of prayer and how do you exit it?

[Aprender]

I live in USA and I pray 5X every day, including 2 at work.

Yep. Me too.