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Rhubarb Tart
03-16-2012, 07:15 PM
I know women CAN’T be leader of a country, soldiers and judges. I know the most important role is being a mother and wife.

I want to know whether CAN be something other than the OBVIOUS (medicine, teacher etc).

I am asking this because I come across another respected scholar cursing women that speak in lectures, give talks etc. He was answering a question from a fellow Muslim who asked him what he thoughts were about women that “acted” like men by giving lectures.

To be honest, I rolled my eyes at the question and the answer.

And also I have come across members in this group saying women HAVE to do jobs that are the obvious jobs otherwise she is committing a sin and leaving her home unnecessary! So those of you (sisters) that have their own business, scientists, cleaners, receptionists, mathematicians etc are committing a sin! You can’t even give a lecture either (btw you dont have to raise you voice or use soft voice to give a talk)?

Now I obviously think that it is wrong! Now why am I seeing more and more people that have this mentality? Don’t they look at the bigger picture and see the consequences? Most women that work in hospital and have business in Saudi and most Middle East countries are NON Muslims!

I am beginning to feel like a militant feminist lol

Please tell me that I am not only one?
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TrueStranger
03-16-2012, 07:36 PM
Some Muslim women fought in the battle of Uhud. I can't see why they can't become soldiers or Judges for that matter. I honestly do not listen to those men and their mindset. They have too MUCH time on their hands and are heavily influenced by their culture.
Reply

Aprender
03-16-2012, 07:52 PM
This is a major problem that I am noticing too.

There are some women who are emerging and trying to become valuable scholars of Islam, even here in the U.S. and Muslim men are attacking them for it left and right.

It's unfortunate. Especially when you consider all of the fake/liberal/Moderate Muslims out there who are telling young Muslim girls that they don't have to wear hijab, that it is something that men created to oppresses them. Or telling them that it's OK to marry a non-Muslim man and finding sheiks to tell them still that it's OK and quoting Quran out of context. These men don't say anything to them.

But when you have a woman who is covered, giving talks at universities, teaching these women the right way to be, Muslim men attack these women for that even when their husbands approve of this and travel with them. It truly is annoying. In my opinion, if you are a Muslim man, and you see a video of a Muslim sister online giving a beneficial Islamic lecture, and you find yourself attracted to that woman, SCROLL DOWN from the video so you can just hear audio, and if that's too much for you then click the X on the screen. There are plenty of other male lecturers out there like Nouman Ali Khan, Yusuf Estes, Joshua Evans who you can learn from. Instead, these men will say, SHE HAS TO WEAR niqab or she can't give dawah.... OK...the last time I checked, women can be Muslims too.

I've seen some lectures online of Muslim men who, if I find myself attracted to them I just listen to the audio and if I am tempted to look again I just find another person to listen to. I don't DEMAND that men wear a niqab because he's too attractive to me and I'm not learning. That's ridiculous.

A lot of time, Muslim women don't want to learn about how to be a Muslim woman from a man. It just doesn't make any sense. And I think that this is an issue among the Muslim community in the way that women are being attacked by Muslim men for trying to give dawah and help some Muslim sisters who might be on their way out of Islam...
Reply

Ramadan90
03-16-2012, 08:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aprender
This is a major problem that I am noticing too.

There are some women who are emerging and trying to become valuable scholars of Islam, even here in the U.S. and Muslim men are attacking them for it left and right.

It's unfortunate. Especially when you consider all of the fake/liberal/Moderate Muslims out there who are telling young Muslim girls that they don't have to wear hijab, that it is something that men created to oppresses them. Or telling them that it's OK to marry a non-Muslim man and finding sheiks to tell them still that it's OK and quoting Quran out of context. These men don't say anything to them.

But when you have a woman who is covered, giving talks at universities, teaching these women the right way to be, Muslim men attack these women for that even when their husbands approve of this and travel with them. It truly is annoying. In my opinion, if you are a Muslim man, and you see a video of a Muslim sister online giving a beneficial Islamic lecture, and you find yourself attracted to that woman, SCROLL DOWN from the video so you can just hear audio, and if that's too much for you then click the X on the screen. There are plenty of other male lecturers out there like Nouman Ali Khan, Yusuf Estes, Joshua Evans who you can learn from. Instead, these men will say, SHE HAS TO WEAR niqab or she can't give dawah.... OK...the last time I checked, women can be Muslims too.

I've seen some lectures online of Muslim men who, if I find myself attracted to them I just listen to the audio and if I am tempted to look again I just find another person to listen to. I don't DEMAND that men wear a niqab because he's too attractive to me and I'm not learning. That's ridiculous.

A lot of time, Muslim women don't want to learn about how to be a Muslim woman from a man. It just doesn't make any sense. And I think that this is an issue among the Muslim community in the way that women are being attacked by Muslim men for trying to give dawah and help some Muslim sisters who might be on their way out of Islam...
You are making a very good point sister. Obviously this is a cultural issue, really. This is what happens when you mix Islam with culture.
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جوري
03-16-2012, 08:13 PM
Here's a good thread on women scholars in Islam:

http://www.islamicboard.com/clarific...ars-islam.html
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Rhubarb Tart
03-16-2012, 08:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
Some Muslim women fought in the battle of Uhud. I can't see why they can't become soldiers or Judges for that matter. I honestly do not listen to those men and their mindset. They have too MUCH time on their hands and are heavily influenced by their culture.

I suggest you read topics about judges and soldiers.

I am taking about people thinking everything else other than typical doctor and teachers is haram.

In fact, now I am starting to see people telling sisters don't work as midwife because of the potential of working with male doctors. A girl I know quit her midwifery course because of it. Her father who is knowledgeable was upset that someone told her to quit. I can't with idiotic Muslim community! I just can't.


I never see the day were I feel like a militant feminist and I am not lol
Reply

Scimitar
03-16-2012, 08:22 PM
Mariam “Al-Astrolabiya” Al-Ijliya lived in the tenth century in Aleppo, Syria and was a famous scientist who designed and constructed astrolabes.


Astrolabes were global positioning instruments that determine the position of the sun and planets, so they were used in the fields of astronomy, astrology and horoscopes. They were also used to tell time and for navigation by finding location by latitude and longitude. The Muslims used them to find the Qibla, prayer times, and determine starting days for Ramadan and Eid. Basically, an astrolabe is an old fashioned smart phone.
astrolabe4 1?w640 -

Mariam’s father was an apprentice to a famous astrolabe maker in Baghdad and she in turn became his student. Her hand-crafted designs were so intricate and innovative that she was employed by the ruler of the city, Sayf Al Dawla, from 944 AD until 967 AD. She will always be remembered in history for her genius designs.

source: http://mosaicofmuslimwomen.wordpress.com/2012/01/30/then-mariam-al-astrolabiya-al-ijliya-scientist-inventor/

Scimi
Reply

جوري
03-16-2012, 08:25 PM
I'll have to agree that some people go around making everything haram and yet they exempt themselves the prohibitions they impose upon others.. I think everyone should use their brains though.. I wouldn't quit a job because someone told me oh it is haram.. then when they need a colonoscopy or a mastectomy or a C/section etc etc demand a Muslim doctor, a female at that and demand that the rest of the staff working along be the same as well.. Give me a break..
anyhow I happened upon this article today written by a Muslim female writer..

Living on Borrowed Time

Somayya Patel

Mar 16|00:00
Last Updated on Fri, 16 Mar 2012 08:19

Time management is redundant if you are living your life doing whatever comes across your path, wandering aimlessly from one day to the next, not really knowing what direction you’re heading in. Having clearly defined goals in life is vital to living a healthy well-balanced life. Being unsure of where you are going can cause anxiety and a sense of dissatisfaction with life. In the Islamic tradition, the purpose of a believer is to worship God and acquire His pleasure and subsequently all of his goals in life should be directed towards that.

"The time I kill is killing me." – Mason Cooley
You may have heard the term ‘time management’ before and dismissed it as being one of the many newly concocted phrases of the self-help industry. However, it refers to using the time one has in the most effective manner and although not always labeled as that, this single trait has often been cited by many as one of the key success factors of all productive human beings, alive or dead, be it in the material or spiritual sense. Time is life and once lost can never be retrieved. The value of time is something never underestimated by people who live to make a difference and has always been the common denominator of those who left a legacy behind them. The historian and exegete, Ibn Jarir al-Tabari, who authored more than 350,000 pages of scholarly works is often remembered for his incredible use of time.
Sometimes you will hear someone say ‘I do X to kill time’ as if having spare time is an annoying hindrance. At the other end of the spectrum are individuals who are constantly complaining ‘I don’t have enough time’. And the last type are the ones I envy: nearly always doing something productive, never complaining about the excess availability of time or lack thereof and they carry themselves with a certain aura of serenity, always maximizing their usage of time and realizing that every minute gone by is not going to return. The Prophet Muhammad said: ‘there are two blessings which many people do not make the most of and thus lose out: good health and free time.’
Time management is redundant if you are living your life doing whatever comes across your path, wandering aimlessly from one day to the next, not really knowing what direction you’re heading in. Having clearly defined goals in life is vital to living a healthy well-balanced life. Being unsure of where you are going can cause anxiety and a sense of dissatisfaction with life. In the Islamic tradition, the purpose of a believer is to worship God and acquire His pleasure and subsequently all of his goals in life should be directed towards that.
Once you have your goals in life clearly defined with scheduled action plans, the second step, prioritising will become easier. Trying to fit in a multitude of tasks in the limited time available can become a challenge when you haven’t decided what tasks should come first.
The third step is to mentally and physically get rid of the stumbling blocks in your life which allow you to be unproductive or procrastinate. Coming across a task you don’t want to complete, have you ever found yourself discovering new things to do which weren’t important two minutes ago? If you have, you are a ‘structured procrastinator’. You make yourself believe that you are being productive and not lazy, but what you’re really doing is putting off critical tasks.
At other times, you may make excuses like ‘I just don’t have the willpower’ as if willpower is like eye colour; something you were born with. Willpower is a personal trait which can either be developed or ignored. Accordingly, time management will hone your personal qualities, such as patience, determination, self-discipline, which are at the heart of tazkiyah, or purification of the self.
And the final step is to wake up early. The Prophet Muhammad informed us that the early hours of the day are blessed. Along with taking other steps to increase the blessings in your life, bid farewell to the cozy duvet early in the morning and say to yourself: “Here I come. I have a purpose in life to fulfill, goals to achieve and no time to waste.”






Notes: Somayya Patel writes on behalf of the 1st Ethical Charitable Trust, which encourages British Muslims to express their faith in ways which benefit wider society, thereby fostering improved social and religious cohesion. For more information, please visit www.1stethical.com

Source; www.islam21c.com
Islam21c requests all the readers of this article, and others, to share it on your facebook, twitter, and other platforms to further spread our efforts.

Reply

Scimitar
03-16-2012, 08:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
I am beginning to feel like a militant feminist lol
As long as you don;t start hating men... lol.

Sister CosmicIntuition is in the process of making a series about the Feminism Con... I haven't got any release dates yet, but whe it gets a release, you will find it on my youtube channel (link when you click my signature banner).

Scimi
Reply

CosmicPathos
03-16-2012, 08:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
Some Muslim women fought in the battle of Uhud. I can't see why they can't become soldiers or Judges for that matter. I honestly do not listen to those men and their mindset. They have too MUCH time on their hands and are heavily influenced by their culture.
the revelation of Islam did not stop at battle of Uhud. New rulings continued to be revealed for years afterwards. maybe you want to brush up on basic islam 101 history?

I wonder why didnt Ayesha (ra) become ameera ul mumineen after death of Prophet.
Reply

Rhubarb Tart
03-16-2012, 08:46 PM
Sorry for my bad grammar and spellings. I am using my phone and I have fat fingers!
I just can’t with sheer stupidity! I beginning to think no one uses their common sense any more.

And if you question their thoughts and their decision, you must be a feminist! That term has been hijacked and I don’t want to be associated with feminism they are talking about!

I also don’t want to follow people like sheep and agreeing with idiocy! ^o)

I forgot to say :sl: to ALL!
Reply

CosmicPathos
03-16-2012, 08:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ßlµêßêll
I'll have to agree that some people go around making everything haram and yet they exempt themselves the prohibitions they impose upon others.. I think everyone should use their brains though.. I wouldn't quit a job because someone told me oh it is haram.. then when they need a colonoscopy or a mastectomy or a C/section etc etc demand a Muslim doctor, a female at that and demand that the rest of the staff working along be the same as well.. Give me a break..
anyhow I happened upon this article today written by a Muslim female writer..

Living on Borrowed Time


Somayya Patel

Mar 16|00:00
Last Updated on Fri, 16 Mar 2012 08:19

Time management is redundant if you are living your life doing whatever comes across your path, wandering aimlessly from one day to the next, not really knowing what direction you’re heading in. Having clearly defined goals in life is vital to living a healthy well-balanced life. Being unsure of where you are going can cause anxiety and a sense of dissatisfaction with life. In the Islamic tradition, the purpose of a believer is to worship God and acquire His pleasure and subsequently all of his goals in life should be directed towards that.

"The time I kill is killing me." – Mason Cooley
You may have heard the term ‘time management’ before and dismissed it as being one of the many newly concocted phrases of the self-help industry. However, it refers to using the time one has in the most effective manner and although not always labeled as that, this single trait has often been cited by many as one of the key success factors of all productive human beings, alive or dead, be it in the material or spiritual sense. Time is life and once lost can never be retrieved. The value of time is something never underestimated by people who live to make a difference and has always been the common denominator of those who left a legacy behind them. The historian and exegete, Ibn Jarir al-Tabari, who authored more than 350,000 pages of scholarly works is often remembered for his incredible use of time.
Sometimes you will hear someone say ‘I do X to kill time’ as if having spare time is an annoying hindrance. At the other end of the spectrum are individuals who are constantly complaining ‘I don’t have enough time’. And the last type are the ones I envy: nearly always doing something productive, never complaining about the excess availability of time or lack thereof and they carry themselves with a certain aura of serenity, always maximizing their usage of time and realizing that every minute gone by is not going to return. The Prophet Muhammad said: ‘there are two blessings which many people do not make the most of and thus lose out: good health and free time.’
Time management is redundant if you are living your life doing whatever comes across your path, wandering aimlessly from one day to the next, not really knowing what direction you’re heading in. Having clearly defined goals in life is vital to living a healthy well-balanced life. Being unsure of where you are going can cause anxiety and a sense of dissatisfaction with life. In the Islamic tradition, the purpose of a believer is to worship God and acquire His pleasure and subsequently all of his goals in life should be directed towards that.
Once you have your goals in life clearly defined with scheduled action plans, the second step, prioritising will become easier. Trying to fit in a multitude of tasks in the limited time available can become a challenge when you haven’t decided what tasks should come first.
The third step is to mentally and physically get rid of the stumbling blocks in your life which allow you to be unproductive or procrastinate. Coming across a task you don’t want to complete, have you ever found yourself discovering new things to do which weren’t important two minutes ago? If you have, you are a ‘structured procrastinator’. You make yourself believe that you are being productive and not lazy, but what you’re really doing is putting off critical tasks.
At other times, you may make excuses like ‘I just don’t have the willpower’ as if willpower is like eye colour; something you were born with. Willpower is a personal trait which can either be developed or ignored. Accordingly, time management will hone your personal qualities, such as patience, determination, self-discipline, which are at the heart of tazkiyah, or purification of the self.
And the final step is to wake up early. The Prophet Muhammad informed us that the early hours of the day are blessed. Along with taking other steps to increase the blessings in your life, bid farewell to the cozy duvet early in the morning and say to yourself: “Here I come. I have a purpose in life to fulfill, goals to achieve and no time to waste.”






Notes:Somayya Patel writes on behalf of the 1st Ethical Charitable Trust, which encourages British Muslims to express their faith in ways which benefit wider society, thereby fostering improved social and religious cohesion. For more information, please visit www.1stethical.com

Source; www.islam21c.com
Islam21c requests all the readers of this article, and others, to share it on your facebook, twitter, and other platforms to further spread our efforts.


i dont see anything wrong with female docs practicing on female patients. i think no scholar has condemned that, to my knowledge.

as for the article written by "british muslimah" i dont take these nationality based muslim reverts seriously. i wont be wrong to guess that 90% of them leave islam by the 5th year.
Reply

Rhubarb Tart
03-16-2012, 08:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
As long as you don;t start hating men... lol.

Sister CosmicIntuition is in the process of making a series about the Feminism Con... I haven't got any release dates yet, but whe it gets a release, you will find it on my youtube channel (link when you click my signature banner).

Scimi
lol thanks for telling me. Thank for posting info about the Muslim scientist btw.

And thanks to Bluebell for posting that interesting article.
Reply

GuestFellow
03-16-2012, 09:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
I suggest you read topics about judges and soldiers.
Salaam,

Some scholars support female Muslim judges.

In fact, now I am starting to see people telling sisters don't work as midwife because of the potential of working with male doctors. A girl I know quit her midwifery course because of it. Her father who is knowledgeable was upset that someone told her to quit. I can't with idiotic Muslim community! I just can't.
I don't have a problem with Muslim women working in general but I want to marry a Muslim women that does not want to work. I need someone who can maintain the house and help me out with my work (if she wants), like bookkeeping, drafting wills and general administrative work. Helping me out with my work would be very helpful but that's her choice.

I'm not sure why so many Muslim women are eager to work now. Are they trying to prove something? Is it that they really enjoy working? Or is sitting at home and doing all the washing/cooking/cleaning boring?
Reply

جوري
03-16-2012, 09:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
i dont see anything wrong with female docs practicing on female patients. i think no scholar has condemned that, to my knowledge.

as for the article written by "british muslimah" i dont take these nationality based muslim reverts seriously. i wont be wrong to guess that 90% of them leave islam by the 5th year.
Are you going to limit yourself to male patients?
be that as it may I am curious to where you got the 90% statistic akhi?

:w:
Reply

Rhubarb Tart
03-16-2012, 09:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
Salaam,

Some scholars support female Muslim judges.



I don't have a problem with Muslim women working in general but I want to marry a Muslim women that does not want to work. I need someone who can maintain the house and help me out with my work (if she wants), like bookkeeping, drafting wills and general administrative work. Helping me out with my work would be very helpful but that's her choice.

I'm not sure why so many Muslim women are eager to work now. Are they trying to prove something? Is it that they really enjoy working? Or is sitting at home and doing all the washing/cooking/cleaning boring?

That is perception every Muslim communities in Britain has! YET you need to look at the figures, we are 3% of population, yet Muslim women are far less significant in the workplace compared to other minorities.
Therefore, there are PLENTY of Muslim women that don’t want to work and don’t work.
What are becoming more prevalent people actively cursing the ones that do work whatever their circumstance may be?
Trust me, there are sisters that want to be wives and mothers that is it. I don’t see anything wrong with that. I just don't like it when people go around and restrict other people's opportunities.
Reply

CosmicPathos
03-16-2012, 09:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ßlµêßêll

Are you going to limit yourself to male patients?
be that as it may I am curious to where you got the 90% statistic akhi?

:w:
its just my guess, no concrete evidence. seen it quite a bit on net. again, not representative, but iERA had mentioned something in its pamphlets too.

in an ideal world, yea id love to restrict myself to male patients. I have no interest in doing pap smears or breast exams or delivering babies. and i am willing to help in creating this "ideal world."
Reply

جوري
03-16-2012, 09:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
I have no interest in doing pap smears or breast exams.
No one wants to spend their life between people's private parts I assure you.. Even if theoretically interesting to some pervs. Once push comes to shove they want out.. Just a matter of buttering your bread while providing a service to your community.
Not everyone has the luxury to choose.. Any type of residency at all in fact in spite of all the hard work..

anyhow, I believe the stat is 90% inflated also considering that women convert to Islam at a rate of 5-1.. I don't think there are enough Muslim men to take credit for that and I'd go far to say they should only take credit for those who have a misunderstanding of how Islam really is...

:w:
Reply

GuestFellow
03-16-2012, 09:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
That is perception every Muslim communities in Britain has! YET you need to look at the figures, we are 3% of religious communities, yet Muslim women are far less significant in the workplace compared to other minorities!
Therefore, there are PLENTY of Muslim women that don’t want to work and don’t work!
What are becoming more prevalent people actively cursing the ones that do work whatever their circumstance may be?
Trust me, there are sisters that want to be wives and mothers that is it. I don’t see anything wrong with that.
Salaam,

What perception?

I don't personally curse Muslim women that work. Good for them. I know a Muslim girl that wants to become an accountant and I support her.
Reply

Rhubarb Tart
03-16-2012, 09:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
Salaam,

What perception?

I don't personally curse Muslim women that work. Good for them. I know a Muslim girl that wants to become an accountant and I support her.
Listen I didn't say YOU personally curse them. why do you always misunderstand me?

that is the perception most brothers I've spoken to have about Muslim women, most want to work. You are not first I came across that said this.
Reply

GuestFellow
03-16-2012, 09:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
Listen I didn't say YOU personally curse them.
Salaam,

I know.

why do you always misunderstand me?
I do? O__O


that is the perception most brothers I've spoken to have about Muslim women, most want to work. You are not first I came across that said this.
I'm speaking from experience. I just asked why because I want to know.
Reply

GuestFellow
03-16-2012, 09:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ßlµêßêll
No one wants to spend their life between people's private parts I assure you..
:sl:

Hahahaha I love reading your posts. Almost choked on coke when I read this.

I know some Muslim women doctors and I never heard about male patients behaving like perverts. I mean the patients are very sick.
Reply

Ğħαrєєвαħ
03-16-2012, 09:49 PM
..........................................
Reply

CosmicPathos
03-16-2012, 09:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ßlµêßêll
I'd go far to say they should only take credit for those who have a misunderstanding of how Islam really is
that is quite not so true. It is only the females, who once may have been Muslims, who create negative stereotypes. Look at ayan hirsi ali, wafa sultan, irshad manji ... sort of giving the "inside scoop" on how islam really is for women ... to the outside world . while we dont get britnneys or whitneys or sylvias to talk about harms of from the chavinistic lovers and charmers and pimps of modern age. rather, they do enjoy along with such men, clubbing and all that which comes after beign drunk.

wsalam
Reply

جوري
03-16-2012, 10:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
that is quite not so true. It is only the females, who once may have been Muslims, who create negative stereotypes. Look at ayan hirsi ali, wafa sultan, irshad manji ... sort of giving the "inside scoop" on how islam really is for women ... to the outside world . while we dont get britnneys or whitneys or sylvias to talk about harms of from the chavinistic lovers and charmers and pimps of modern age. rather, they do enjoy along with such men, clubbing and all that which comes after beign drunk.

wsalam
This is conjecture upon conjecture.. I am not even that interested in the actual statistics of who slips in or out of religion.. The Question should be of better Muslims not more Muslims.. I think I actually understand now why Jews are so God awful stringent with conversions ...

:w:
Reply

CosmicPathos
03-16-2012, 10:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ßlµêßêll

This is conjecture upon conjecture.. I am not even that interested in the actual statistics of who slips in or out of religion.. The Question should be of better Muslims not more Muslims.. I think I actually understand now why Jews are so God awful stringent with conversions ...

:w:
word. Jews are like one big family, almost every Jewish doctor has heard of/knows another Jewish doctor from a specialty miles away. they are smart, they help each other, and they reap the benefits. while Muslim doctors make sure that the other Muslim doc does not get that residency spot. we Muslims still have not conluded if Quran is a created word of God or if it is eternal.

wsalam

wsalam
Reply

Aprender
03-16-2012, 10:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
Look at ayan hirsi ali, wafa sultan, irshad manji ... sort of giving the "inside scoop" on how islam really is for women ... to the outside world .
Yes, indeed these women are definitely a major problem. But I wish more Muslim men would respectfully speak out against these type of women who know nothing about Islam instead of attacking practicing, hijabi Muslim women who try to reverse the lies that these women tell and educate the Muslim sisters that we already have.
Reply

CosmicPathos
03-16-2012, 10:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
I just can’t with sheer stupidity! I beginning to think no one uses their common sense any more.
yea only you are not the stupid one. and only you have massive swathes of common knowledge. anyone you disagree with has to be dumb and stupid and idiot.
Reply

GuestFellow
03-16-2012, 11:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aprender
Yes, indeed these women are definitely a major problem. But I wish more Muslim men would respectfully speak out against these type of women who know nothing about Islam instead of attacking practicing, hijabi Muslim women who try to reverse the lies that these women tell and educate the Muslim sisters that we already have.
Salaam,

Some Muslim men do judge, most of these Muslims don't even keep a beard, nor are practicing. It's culture.

I find more Muslim women that are practicing than compared to Muslim men. Speaking from experience.
Reply

TrueStranger
03-16-2012, 11:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
Salaam,

Some Muslim men do judge, most of these Muslims don't even keep a beard, nor are practicing. It's culture.

I find more Muslim women that are practicing than compared to Muslim men. Speaking from experience.
True. Each Muslim society has its own unique problem that is inscribed in their history. We can't take a single problem that might be limited to a particular culture and generalize it to the whole Ummah. The main issue facing us is lack of leadership and clear objectives.
Reply

'Abd-al Latif
03-16-2012, 11:24 PM
:salamext:

View my thread: http://www.islamicboard.com/family-s...omen-west.html

Here is an extract of the article of that link:

When the Qur’an mentions other women, it is very evident that in praising any believing woman it praises her for possessing similar qualities. If she is a married woman the Qur’an would praise her as a wife, supporting her husband and being dutiful to him. If she is a mother, the Qur’an would praise her for her important role as a nurturer of the next generation. I have not witnessed the Qur’an praising any woman for her contribution outside of this framework. For example, we don’t see the Qur’an praising a woman for her political involvement, da’wah activism, level of knowledge, social engagement or even leadership. This article cannot possibly include the stories of all women mentioned in the Qur’an, but a simple analysis should confirm this finding.


Reply

CosmicPathos
03-16-2012, 11:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
I find more Muslim women that are practicing than compared to Muslim men. Speaking from experience.
maybe you are hanging too much with muslim women, and not with brothers? time to change non-mehram company brother.

btw my experiences are opposite. I've seen hijabis do kinky stuff, yet I have not seen a brother with a sunnah beard and with trousers above ankles do all that stuff, at least not in my experience.
Reply

TrueStranger
03-16-2012, 11:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif
:salamext:

View my thread: http://www.islamicboard.com/family-s...omen-west.html

Here is an extract of the article of that link:

When the Qur’an mentions other women, it is very evident that in praising any believing woman it praises her for possessing similar qualities. If she is a married woman the Qur’an would praise her as a wife, supporting her husband and being dutiful to him. If she is a mother, the Qur’an would praise her for her important role as a nurturer of the next generation. I have not witnessed the Qur’an praising any woman for her contribution outside of this framework. For example, we don’t see the Qur’an praising a woman for her political involvement, da’wah activism, level of knowledge, social engagement or even leadership. This article cannot possibly include the stories of all women mentioned in the Qur’an, but a simple analysis should confirm this finding.


And if she is not a married women? The Quran does state mothers when it comes to their rights as a parent, and wives when it comes to marriage and their rights/duties. However, that does not mean that Khadija's business was for nothing, or Aisha's military and scholarly influences were for naught.

When I hear about God praising prophets such as Ibhrahim, Moses, Yusuf, Yahye, Isa, Mohamed(Peace be upon them all) in the Quran it is not for their business skills, their military skills, or any other skill outside that of their duty, taqwa, and love for Allah's Decree and message to mankind.

The idea is really simply brother. Islam is not that restrictive, however certain men are for no apparent reason.
Reply

'Abd-al Latif
03-16-2012, 11:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
And if she is not a married women? The Quran does state mothers when it comes to their rights as a parent, and wives when it comes to marriage and their rights/duties. However, that does not mean that Khadija's business was for nothing, or Aisha's military and scholarly influences were for naught.

When I hear about God praising prophets such as Ibhrahim, Moses, Yusuf, Yahye, Isa, Mohamed(Peace be upon them all) in the Quran it is not for their business skills, their military skills, or any other skill outside that of their duty, taqwa, and love for Allah's Decree and message to mankind.

The idea is really simply brother. Islam is not that restrictive, however certain men are for no apparent reason.
Well if you had read my thread then you would have read that at the bottom it says that unmarried women will be mentioned in the next article.

Khadija wasn't Muslim at the time but even then she delegated others to carry out her business.

'Aisha didn't gather an army or initiate the battle, the people around her in Makkah who were there (after she had to make a U-turn while going to Madinah) made the decision themselves to fight against what they thought was a wrong doing. Aisha (r) spoke out against the killing of 'Uthman, the people who heard her gathered the courage to act upon what she spoke out against. And though she was present when the battle was taking place she later regretted her involvement.

And for the final thing you have mentioned about having taqwa, please read that article I posted. It'll answer your question.
Reply

TrueStranger
03-17-2012, 12:18 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif
Well if you had read my thread then you would have read that at the bottom it says that unmarried women will be mentioned in the next article.

Khadija wasn't Muslim at the time but even then she delegated others to carry out her business.

'Aisha didn't gather an army or initiate the battle, the people around her in Makkah who were there (after she had to make a U-turn while going to Madinah) made the decision themselves to fight against what they thought was a wrong doing. Aisha (r) spoke out against the killing of 'Uthman, the people who heard her gathered the courage to act upon what she spoke out against. And though she was present when the battle was taking place she later regretted her involvement.

And for the final thing you have mentioned about having taqwa, please read that article I posted. It'll answer your question.
I will direct my response to your article in your original thread. the Biggest problem I have with it is the idea that a woman has to choice between making a living or bring a housewife/mother.

By the way it's completely normal for a Businesswoman/man to pay others to carry out their business or help them out. I do not remember the Prophet objecting to her busniess skills before she became a Muslim and after she became a Muslim.

As for Aisha, I will leave that alone since there are different opposing sites. But the reason why the battle was called the "Battle of the Camel" was because Aisha was on it.


And please do tell if Allah praises the Prophets' for their career options or worldly gains?
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Rhubarb Tart
03-17-2012, 12:22 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif
:salamext:

View my thread: http://www.islamicboard.com/family-s...omen-west.html

Here is an extract of the article of that link:

When the Qur’an mentions other women, it is very evident that in praising any believing woman it praises her for possessing similar qualities. If she is a married woman the Qur’an would praise her as a wife, supporting her husband and being dutiful to him. If she is a mother, the Qur’an would praise her for her important role as a nurturer of the next generation. I have not witnessed the Qur’an praising any woman for her contribution outside of this framework. For example, we don’t see the Qur’an praising a woman for her political involvement, da’wah activism, level of knowledge, social engagement or even leadership. This article cannot possibly include the stories of all women mentioned in the Qur’an, but a simple analysis should confirm this finding.


LOL I don't see the quran praising men of being lawyers or other fancy jobs other than providing money which obviously can be earned in simple jobs.

Now you need to think what kind of society you are advocating for? No restaurants for women, no gym, sport centre of any kind, go trips aboard with mahram because there no one to carry out checks, no clothes shopping, no maid, no banks,

Plus you and others are trying something that is halal to haram. And you and others have NO rights to complain about non Muslim influence in muslim society when you actively advocate that muslim women have no role in society other than to provide the obvious (medicine and teaching).

Funny how scholars in the past didn't stop the scientist posted early? Why didn't tell her and others like her to get lost or otherwise do the obvious jobs (medicine)? Why is that they didn't punish women that did other jobs that is not in teaching sector or medicine.

It is only recently you all want to go backwards.

Btw there parts of the quran where it praises muslim in general who contribute to society that includes women. And luckily there scholars that don't condemn but praise mothers and those who work. Plus you and others are so quick to highlight about women's rights to spend her own income and have her own property to non muslims yet you are dead set against those that do lol

So how do you think women gains her property and income without working?

Next time, when you decide to highlight this to a non women to prove muslim are not oppressed, please be honest and write

P.s btw I don't think women should work unless they are doctors or teachers.

Btw I am not saying ALL or most women should work, they should be given the choice.
Best regards,
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CosmicPathos
03-17-2012, 12:30 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
Aisha's military
for which she repented? and now you are sayign there are opposite sides. lol. when the person herself is regretting her mistake in recorded narrations, why are you dwelling on "oppositde" sides? fatwa shopping?
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CosmicPathos
03-17-2012, 12:33 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
gains her property and income without working
inheritance. or business in which she doesnt have to deal with men.
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Rhubarb Tart
03-17-2012, 12:42 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
inheritance. or business in which she doesnt have to deal with men.
rubbish!

how do you suppose she can to business without dealing with men? Inheritance is NOT her own income. Plus women get FAR less then men.

Hardly doubt women are allowed to inherit property because that would significant share of the inheritance. And as already mentioned women get FAR less!

(Removed by moderator)
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GuestFellow
03-17-2012, 12:50 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
maybe you are hanging too much with muslim women, and not with brothers? time to change non-mehram company brother.
Salaam,

You should not be quick to make accusations. I don't have Muslim female friends. I think I touched a nerve.
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Abz2000
03-17-2012, 12:51 AM
there are many things which Muslim women can do and are commended for their efforts, the quran also mentions them as giving in charity and enjoining the right and forbidding the wrong:


The Believers, men and women, are protectors one of another:
they enjoin what is just, and forbid what is evil: they observe regular prayers, practise regular charity, and obey Allah and His Messenger.
On them will Allah pour His mercy: for Allah is Exalted in power, Wise.
Qur'an - Al-Tauba 9:71

the wife of Moses (pbuh) was watering her flocks when they met.

and we are aware that asma (ra) carried date seeds for the horse until Abu Bakr (ra) got them a servant - Zubair (ra) was a strong and jealous man for his honour, and he didn't like his wife having to work but it was done at the time out of necessity.

the problem i personally feel is the state of society and the corruption we witness almost everywhere.
it really changes the dynamics of what one feels comfortable with.
in a true Muslim society, if someone makes a pass at your wife, you go and break his nose, it will be looked on differently by the jury or judge.
but in the media corrupted west, you will be seen as a criminal and may even be punished.
so can you always blame the men for being cautious?
i personally feel it is wrong to just use Islam (often wrongly) every time someone doesn't like something, but i don't feel it is wrong for a man to want his wife to be safe from the ills being perpetrated on the psychology of society by the government and mass media.
these things can be made clear without just blaming Allah and absolving oneself from criticism.
Reply

جوري
03-17-2012, 12:55 AM

Reply

'Abd-al Latif
03-17-2012, 01:19 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
LOL I don't see the quran praising men of being lawyers or other fancy jobs other than providing money which obviously can be earned in simple jobs.

Now you need to think what kind of society you are advocating for? No restaurants for women, no gym, sport centre of any kind, go trips aboard with mahram because there no one to carry out checks, no clothes shopping, no maid, no banks,

Plus you and others are trying something that is halal to haram. And you and others have. NO rights to complain about non Muslim influence in muslim society when you actively advocate that muslim women have role in society other than to provide the obvious (medicine and teaching).

Funny how scholars in the past didn't stop the scientist posted early? Why did tell her and others like her to get lost or otherwise do the obvious? Why is that they didn't punish women that did other jobs not in teaching sector or medicine.

It is only recently you all want to go backwards.

Btw there parts of the quran where it praise muslim in general who contribute to society that includes women. And luckily there scholars that don't condemn but praise mothers and those who work. Plus you and others are so quick to highlight about women's rights to spend her own income and have her own property yet you are dead set against those that do lol

So how do you think women gains her property and income without working?

Next time, when you decide to highlight this to a non women to prove muslim are not obessed, please be honest and write

P.s btw I don't think women should work unless they are doctors or teachers.

Btw I am not saying ALL or most women should work, they should be given the choice.
Best regards,
You know for once I'd really like to see you take from my threads and posts what I'm actually trying to say as opposed to making assumptions and throwing accusations without even reading what I'm saying! Speaking in context would be a great way to start off in the right direction when replying.

My thread that I posted neither made haram or makrooh for women to work nor did it discourage them from doing what they have to do. All it did was mention what the Qur'an has praised about women and what is higher and better according to the Qur'an.

Firstly, the context that the scholars usually speak about Muslim women working is for those in Muslim countries. Now what Muslim women do with regards to work in Muslim countries is a separate issue which I will not mention here. I could also discuss the kind of work that men should and shouldn't have and what Islam says about being lawyers and well-paid jobs and what not but I will not mention that here either because that is a completely different topic.

Secondly, the phenomenon that the scholars of today have taken into consideration is that of Muslims migrating to non-Muslim lands which means some new rulings had to be issued. Sometimes women are encouraged to take jobs in fields where women are needed just to make matters easier for other Muslims (please be so kind as to note very carefully here that I have not limited any jobs up till this point). Now for those women who need to work to support their family, themselves if their husband has divorced them or just that the financial situation requires her to work then no one prohibits her working. All Islam says is just work in a suitable environment where she won't be harmed (which include her religion and dignity). It is a principle in Islamic Jurisprudence that whenever there is a necessity, whatever is prohibited becomes permissible so she can get jobs in fields that are not suitable for women if her financial situation requires so (and this exception is waived once the necessity is no longer there). This is after she has tried her very best to find a suitable job first.

You mentioned scholars praising women, now what kind of contribution which is praised by the scholars didn't necessarily mean work. It is praise for a woman of substance who – broadly speaking – strives to reform her family and society without stepping into the territory where she isn't Islamically going to excel.

And finally, you've made a very bold accusation to say that I go against what I speak. And I should assume that you know me to make this claim? You have seem me with my family, seen me at work and have witnessed my contribution to my local society where I live to make such an assumption? Does the hereafter and accountability mean anything to you?
Reply

Rhubarb Tart
03-17-2012, 02:11 AM
You know for once I'd really like to see you take from my threads and posts what I'm actually trying to say as opposed to making assumptions and throwing accusations without even reading what I'm saying! Speaking in context would be a great way to start off in the right direction when replying.
Yeah sure...

My thread that I posted neither made haram or makrooh for women to work nor did it discourage them from doing what they have to do. All it did was mention what the Qur'an has praised about women and what is higher and better according to the Qur'an.
LOL maybe you and I were reading two different articles? The article clearly was harsh to those that aspire to be something else other than being a mother and wife.
Going far as calling such people as experiencing a delusion, so who are you trying to kid?

Secondly, the phenomenon that the scholars of today have taken into consideration is that of Muslims migrating to non-Muslim lands which means some new rulings had to be issued. Sometimes women are encouraged to take jobs in fields where women are needed just to make matters easier for other Muslims (please be so kind as to note very carefully here that I have not limited any jobs up till this point). Now for those women who need to work to support their family, themselves if their husband has divorced them or just that the financial situation requires her to work then no one prohibits her working. All Islam says is just work in a suitable environment where she won't be harmed (which include her religion and dignity). It is a principle in Islamic Jurisprudence that whenever there is a necessity, whatever is prohibited becomes permissible so she can get jobs in fields that are not suitable for women if her financial situation requires so (and this exception is waived once the necessity is no longer there). This is after she has tried her very best to find a suitable job first.
This ruling was stated for Muslims living in Muslim countries too.

You mentioned scholars praising women, now what kind of contribution which is praised by the scholars didn't necessarily mean work. It is praise for a woman of substance who – broadly speaking – strives to reform her family and society without stepping into the territory where she isn't Islamically going to excel.
Scholars HAVE praised women for being mathematicians, scientists. This equals work.

And finally, you've made a very bold accusation to say that I go against what I speak. And I should assume that you know me to make this claim? You have seem me with my family, seen me at work and have witnessed my contribution to my local society where I live to make such an assumption? Does the hereafter and accountability mean anything to you?
Lol, so I was imaging you saying that it is unnecessary for a woman to be scientist, cleaners etc in last discussions about this issue? Wasn’t your question towards me, is it “necessary”? No! I don’t know you or your family, sure as hell remember what people say throughout the islamicboard especially when they make a distinguishable point!

Like I said, you would be the first in line to use property rights and income rights to defend accusations about our religion being oppressive towards women yet you believe them to be completely unnecessary in science and maths !
Reply

Rhubarb Tart
03-17-2012, 02:16 AM
It is also funny how you changed your tune.
Sometimes women are encouraged to take jobs in fields where women are needed just to make matters easier for other Muslims (please be so kind as to note very carefully here that I have not limited any jobs up till this point).
Noticed, remember how you were arguing that it was “unnecessary” for women to be scientist for instance because she is not benefiting other women? Even though, it is a JOB that benefits overall society!
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CosmicPathos
03-17-2012, 02:26 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
You should not be quick to make accusations. I don't have Muslim female friends. I think I touched a nerve.
yea, dont touch my nerves, I bite quite hard with ensuing permanent damage.

if you had noticed my question mark? ah the irony that my enemy "likes" your comment against me.
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CosmicPathos
03-17-2012, 02:34 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
Yeah sure...


LOL maybe you and I were reading two different articles? The article clearly was harsh to those that aspire to be something else other than being a mother and wife.
Going far as calling such people as experiencing a delusion, so who are you trying to kid?



This ruling was stated for Muslims living in Muslim countries too.



Scholars HAVE praised women for being mathematicians, scientists. This equals work.



Lol, so I was imaging you saying that it is unnecessary for a woman to be scientist, cleaners etc in last discussions about this issue? Wasn’t your question towards me, is it “necessary”? No! I don’t know you or your family, sure as hell remember what people say throughout the islamicboard especially when they make a distinguishable point!

Like I said, you would be the first in line to use property rights and income rights to defend accusations about our religion being oppressive towards women yet you believe them to be completely unnecessary in science and maths !

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TrueStranger
03-17-2012, 02:47 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
yea, dont touch my nerves, I bite quite hard with ensuing permanent damage.

if you had noticed my question mark? ah the irony that my enemy "likes" your comment against me.
LOL! I'm your enemy? ;D

Sadly, I can't repay the favor. You're completely harmless.
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Rhubarb Tart
03-17-2012, 02:47 AM
Surely Mr. Bean's clumsiness represent your whole thought process, MADscientist!
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CosmicPathos
03-17-2012, 03:16 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
Surely Mr. Bean's clumsiness represent your whole thought process, MADscientist!
the fact that you can equate facial expression with thought process shows that your frontal lobe circuits have gone haywire.

Yup mad scientists contribute to the technology you are enjoying. Einstein's son had schizo, einstein also had issues. and many other scientists.
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CosmicPathos
03-17-2012, 03:25 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
Sadly, I can't repay the favor. You're completely harmless.
i wonder who was the cause of your ban? I am surprised that was harmless. do you like to inflict pain on yourself and hence dont see harm as harm?
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TrueStranger
03-17-2012, 03:30 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
i wonder who was the cause of your ban? I am surprised that was harmless. do you like to inflict pain on yourself and hence dont see harm as harm?
That was completely my fault for not dealing with insignificant factors in a more indirect manner.

You were the cause of your own banning. Unless, you want to blame it on "your supposed enemy".
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Rhubarb Tart
03-17-2012, 03:31 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
the fact that you can equate facial expression with thought process shows that your frontal lobe circuits have gone haywire.

Yup mad scientists contribute to the technology you are enjoying. Einstein's son had schizo, einstein also had issues. and many other scientists.
Lol didn't I say bean's clumsiness? I obviously meant the character actions not the facial expression.
So where I equate facial expression with thought process?

Rather these scientists than a racist and sexist muslim like yourself. :)
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CosmicPathos
03-17-2012, 03:47 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
Lol didn't I say bean's clumsiness? I obviously meant the character actions not the facial expression.
So where I equate facial expression with thought process?

Rather these scientists than a racist and sexist muslim like yourself. :)
well whatever you meant, I was only using his pic for facial expressions, not clumsiness.

if you folk can believe that male xy are mutation of your amazing xx and can easily get away with such stupidities, or if you folk expect the man to spend on you and then if he exerts SOME degree of control and you dont like it then i am comfortable being a sexist. Good day.
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ardianto
03-17-2012, 04:11 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
I am asking this because I come across another respected scholar cursing women that speak in lectures, give talks etc. He was answering a question from a fellow Muslim who asked him what he thoughts were about women that “acted” like men by giving lectures.
It's depend on the culture, and depend on how equal the men and women in that place. In Muslim countries where men and women are equal like Indonesia, female scholars or female da'i are honored people. Even many male are listen to their lectures.
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Rhubarb Tart
03-17-2012, 04:15 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
well whatever you meant, I was only using his pic for facial expressions, not clumsiness.

if you folk can believe that male xy are mutation of your amazing xx and can easily get away with such stupidities, or if you folk expect the man to spend on you and then if he exerts SOME degree of control and you dont like it then i am comfortable being a sexist. Good day.
We are not dogs, men are not pet owners.
Sigh, this core reasons why I ruled out marriage because young males display disgusting level of ownership?
no wonder you dead set against women working because that would completely undermine your sense of ownership!
NO ONE spends a penny on me luckily!

You haven't address racist part? Funny how you accuse a writer early of nationalism when you nationalist yourself? You are so proud of your culture, you wouldn't let your so called future daughter marry anyone else! Nationalist, racist and sexist all in one! One could never guess!
Reply

Scimitar
03-17-2012, 04:45 AM
what is womens role in Islam

The complex relationship between women and Islam is defined by Islamic texts, the history and culture of the Muslim world. The Qur'an states that both men and women are equal, but also, as in 4:34, that "Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard."

The prophet pbuh said that if it wasn't classed as shirk, he'd allow the women to bow/prstrate to their husbands... but the women these days? pfft... get off your high horses...

...and the men? get humble already. Arguing with a woman does not make you more of a man.

Thread question answered. Close thread... it's getting ugly.

Scimi
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Rhubarb Tart
03-17-2012, 05:07 AM
Lol that goes girls that are married^

The thread is about the overall role apart from being mother and wife.
I stated at the beginning so don't why an article about motherhood being the most important was even posted?
Look at the beginning of this thread and I clearly acknowledged that it is the most important!

I said apart from the obvious roles and jobs

Doesn't matter whether he argues, he had deal his racist attitude
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Scimitar
03-17-2012, 05:08 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
The thread is about the overall role apart from being mother and wife.
The role of every man is to be husband and a father... just as it is for ever woman to be a mother and a wife. Man should go out and ear the bread, and woman should raise the family - it's called a partnership.

Women can become Dr's Lawyers and whatever they like, as long as they fulfil their primary duty FIRST - to be a wife and a mother, meaning, raise the children and manage the home.

I don 't understand why women want to work? I mean, why? It's a mans world - do you really want to be the subject of male scrutiny in a male dominated environment? Or is that women like to complain and there's nothing better to complain about than your boss' advancements towards you, or your fellow male colleagues talking you down? I don't get it. No wait - it's deadly simple - gossip. That must be it...

I'm pleased I have found a woman - a real woman, one who knows her role in Islam. And would love to fulfil it. She wants nothing more than to stay at home and raise children.

It is incumbent on ever man and woman to marry... and not to delay it. LOL that.

maybe this will help the ladies here:

http://www.kalamullah.com/Books/The Ideal Muslimah.pdf

http://www.kalamullah.com/Books/therightsandduties.pdf

http://www.kalamullah.com/Books/Wisdom behind laws regarding woman1.pdf

download these, read them and then have a good old ponder.

Scimi
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Rhubarb Tart
03-17-2012, 05:26 AM
Urgh you still don't get it and post links that has been posted in this over and over again. That statement still goes married, I am talking about ALL women.

I dont want type she has to be wifey and mother post!

I give up! Btw I don't have to be married, been there and done it!

Best regard,
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Scimitar
03-17-2012, 05:29 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
I am talking about ALL women.
All women in the world? Or all women in Islam - as the title of this thread suggests?

Look missy, you're not gonna pull the fast one on me and exit that swiftly, and this cornered mouse (nice avatar by the way) act is typical of someone who knows they are in waay over their heads.

The facts are still facts, something you wish to ignore in lieu of your own desire to pursue another life away from Islamic thought - yet giving it the title of Islamic role for women? What kind of hypocrisy is this?

So what if you've been married before, get married again...

format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
Urgh you still don't get it and post links that has been posted in this over and over again.
Where? you on drugs or something? the links I posted in my last post are no where else in this thread.

Scimi
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جوري
03-17-2012, 05:39 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
I don 't understand why women want to work? I mean, why? It's a mans world - do you really want to be the subject of male scrutiny in a male dominated environment? Or is that women like to complain and there's nothing better to complain about than your boss' advancements towards you, or your fellow male colleagues talking you down? I don't get it. No wait - it's deadly simple - gossip. That must be it...
:sl:
akhi,

you speak of some idyllic utopia which unfortunately has little to do with the real world.. Most Muslim women I know have to work for the following reason and let me list those I know
1- her husband is disabled and she has seven kids unfortunately no degree beyond high school so she has to do menial work so for starters I stress education by the way they're both converts masha'Allah
2- one Pakistani lady her husband left her and with years of abuse doesn't even pay alimony to her kids, she worked as a pharmacist tech for pennies, put three of them through college masha'Allah
3- One polish convert her husband left her after obtaining his residency status for a Muslim woman from his own country, surprisingly wal7mdlillah she remained steadfast on Islam despite the obvious mal intent
4- widows my aunt was one
5- those who have never married, I have a cousin whose both parents died and her brother lives abroad and her younger sister is with three kids and lives away..
6- one whose father died, she actually is well educated but took a crappy job to pay the bills because her husband who could never hold down a job, came to the U.S on some 'green card' lottery was cheating on her while she was seven month pregnant and often time kicking her in the stomach so she'd abort and he'd not have to support some kids
7- many who are simply joining in the paycheck and I grew up in that kind of a household where both parents had to work to make ends meet.. so I find it somewhat unfortunate to create the scenario you've created above.. it is somewhat insulting..
I'd take a working woman over a housewife any day at least an educated housewife one can live with.. The only whining women I have encountered without exception are housewives who have never worked a day in their life.. You try getting up in the morning at 5, prepare your kids, head to work, put up with whatever abuse there's there come home make dinner and deal with an abusive husband see if there's much to complain or gossip about? contrast to a housewife whose will nit pick on ever last detail and are often very attention seeking. Sob7an Allah.. it is always these pampered sorts that expect everything else just for popping off kids I guess.. the rest of us are just mules who deserve the abuse left and right.....
Reply

Rhubarb Tart
03-17-2012, 05:43 AM
All muslim* happy now?
NO! I don't have to get married again!
Other people have posted these sites!

Please you must be so **** never have to lift again around house, you already or anticipating gettig a maid? Or shall I say wife?

Man you got someone or prospect to kiss your toe *sacrasm off*
Reply

Scimitar
03-17-2012, 05:45 AM
Sister Bluebell - there are always exceptions... But the thread title does not talk about the exceptions to the rule. I'm not so rigid that I'm unreasonable, no.

So really, mute points ... Sorry sis, but I find her sweet106 has cornered herself on more than one occasion on this thread and is now just trying desperately to save some face. It's better if she just admits that she needs to understand the role of women in Islam, from authentic sources, and not from the "opinions" of mere laymen such as myself or any other forum member. We are not scholars, neither are we students of knowledge, or specialists on this subject.

If she just had exercised a little taqwa on this issue, she would have done some sound research instead of coming here and making a circus of herself.

Example?

format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
All muslim* happy now?
NO! I don't have to get married again!
Other people have posted these sites!

Please you must be so **** never have to lift again around house, you already or anticipating gettig a maid? Or shall I say wife?

Man you got someone or prospect to kiss your toe *sacrasm off*
She fell into that one hard. lol that.

Scimi
Reply

Aprender
03-17-2012, 05:47 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
I don 't understand why women want to work? I mean, why? It's a mans world - do you really want to be the subject of male scrutiny in a male dominated environment? Or is that women like to complain and there's nothing better to complain about than your boss' advancements towards you, or your fellow male colleagues talking you down? I don't get it.
Personally, I really don't mind staying away from the work environment being able to raise a family of my own. That sounds like a great deal to me. To let a husband deal with the stress at work and dealing with silly people while I stay at home, playing with the children, cleaning up, finding cool new recipes to try, teaching the kids things, taking the kids to the park, planning family vacations, doing puzzles and whatever else. I've worked enough to know that it is annoying and stressful--especially when it's work that you don't really enjoy.

But, as a revert sister living in the West this is something that I might have to put off. I am 22. When I went to college I had to take out student loans that I have to pay back. That was something that wasn't seen as a big deal before I came to Islam but now that I am a Muslim, I can't take those years of education back and I am obligated to repay what I owe. Because of this I am going to have to work until that debt is paid off in full and the faster this can happen, the happier I will be. After that debt is paid off, I seriously wouldn't mind no longer working and settling more into that role of a wife and mother. Secondly, as a revert sister I don't currently have a mahram to go through the proper channels right now to get married in the right way and having a non-Muslim family, sitting at home and not working is not an option for me as that will upset my parents and I'd be seen as lazy to do this. I personally don't mind doing work that is interesting to me, like research and development, or doing dawah projects here and there, starting organizations to help out the Muslim community, but beyond that, the fast-paced corporate world I really want no part of. But right now it's something that I have to do to get my finances together and start my own life. I can't depend on a man to do that for me as marriage isn't exactly something that I can pursue right away so I really need to get everything in order so I can support myself and live my life. Not going to stop that just because I don't have a man to do it for me. The world goes on. Sometimes, women have to work.
Reply

جوري
03-17-2012, 05:47 AM
I am going to end posting here on this note:

[top] [next match]

Innama almuminoona ikhwatun faaslihoo bayna akhawaykum waittaqoo Allaha laAAallakum turhamoona
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Scimitar
03-17-2012, 05:50 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar

The complex relationship between women and Islam is defined by Islamic texts, the history and culture of the Muslim world. The Qur'an states that both men and women are equal, but also, as in 4:34, that "Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard."

The prophet pbuh said that if it wasn't classed as shirk, he'd allow the women to bow/prstrate to their husbands... but the women these days? pfft... get off your high horses...

...and the men? get humble already. Arguing with a woman does not make you more of a man.

Thread question answered. Close thread... it's getting ugly.

Scimi
As you can see Sister Bluebell, I already played that card, but she is wanting to get her kicks, even using profane language like **** whatever that is supposed to be.

Alhamdulillah, I know my place as a man, but she thinks she is a man.

Scimi
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جوري
03-17-2012, 05:51 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
Sister Bluebell - there are always exceptions.
Akhi,
we're not living in a khilafah where we have such luxuries and even under such an idyllic state, Hind took money from Beyt Al-Mal to start her own business.. the reality is that the exception is the rule now...
I mean who wouldn't love to stay in their palatial home and be showered with gifts be surrounded by children have their girlfriends over for tea and to discuss philosophical things and then have a dotting husband at the end of the day? Life isn't like that and it is triple hard for a Muslim woman if you can imagine the abuse she encounters facing all sorts of stereo types..

:w:
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Scimitar
03-17-2012, 05:54 AM
How about this sister?

format_quote Originally Posted by Aprender
Personally, I really don't mind staying away from the work environment being able to raise a family of my own. That sounds like a great deal to me. To let a husband deal with the stress at work and dealing with silly people while I stay at home, playing with the children, cleaning up, finding cool new recipes to try, teaching the kids things, taking the kids to the park, planning family vacations, doing puzzles and whatever else. I've worked enough to know that it is annoying and stressful--especially when it's work that you don't really enjoy.

But, as a revert sister living in the West this is something that I might have to put off. I am 22. When I went to college I had to take out student loans that I have to pay back. That was something that wasn't seen as a big deal before I came to Islam but now that I am a Muslim, I can't take those years of education back and I am obligated to repay what I owe. Because of this I am going to have to work until that debt is paid off in full and the faster this can happen, the happier I will be. After that debt is paid off, I seriously wouldn't mind no longer working and settling more into that role of a wife and mother. Secondly, as a revert sister I don't currently have a mahram to go through the proper channels right now to get married in the right way and having a non-Muslim family, sitting at home and not working is not an option for me as that will upset my parents and I'd be seen as lazy to do this. I personally don't mind doing work that is interesting to me, like research and development, or doing dawah projects here and there, starting organizations to help out the Muslim community, but beyond that, the fast-paced corporate world I really want no part of. But right now it's something that I have to do to get my finances together and start my own life. I can't depend on a man to do that for me as marriage isn't exactly something that I can pursue right away so I really need to get everything in order so I can support myself and live my life. Not going to stop that just because I don't have a man to do it for me. The world goes on. Sometimes, women have to work.
See my point?

As for Sweet106 saying this:
format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
you already or anticipating gettig a maid? Or shall I say wife?
let me ask you Sweet106, can you call your sister Apprender a maid for wanting to marry now too? get real. You are a compromised Muslim.

Scimi
Reply

جوري
03-17-2012, 05:57 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
As you can see Sister Bluebell, I already played that card, but she is wanting to get her kicks,
I think you're both lovely people and I think you know when it is a subject of contention it can bring out the worst in one another and then devils just ignite it and it really need not be this way...
41:34]

[RECITE]
[top] [next match]

Wala tastawee alhasanatu wala alssayyiatu idfaAA biallatee hiya ahsanu faitha allathee baynaka wabaynahu AAadawatun kaannahu waliyyun hameemun
Reply

Scimitar
03-17-2012, 05:58 AM
I recited... Alhamdulillah for you sister Bluebell. :)

Scimi
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Rhubarb Tart
03-17-2012, 06:02 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
As you can see Sister Bluebell, I already played that card, but she is wanting to get her kicks, even using profane language like **** whatever that is supposed to be.

Alhamdulillah, I know my place as a man, but she thinks she is a man.

Scimi
I use the word d.a.m.n
Reply

Scimitar
03-17-2012, 06:03 AM
lol, good for you. Read the dua in sister Bluebells post, it will make you feel... better.

Scimi
Reply

Rhubarb Tart
03-17-2012, 06:12 AM
I don't care if this sister wants to marry!

It just you won't see me wanting or doing it lol simple.

I just wanted to know the overall roles other the ones typical mentioned!
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Scimitar
03-17-2012, 06:14 AM
Short answer, not a lot to be honest.

format_quote Originally Posted by ßlµêßêll
the reality is that the exception is the rule now...
The Quran is for all time, and what Allah has ordained in it is to apply til the end of time. Exception to the rule or no. Marriage is a benefit and a mercy to mankind.

format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
I don't care if this sister wants to marry!
So why start this thread then? Do you only care about yourself? What could you possibly mean? You are confused... I will keep you in my duas

Scimi

EDIT: Sister sweet106, download the PDF links i gave you on the previous page, seriously, they answer your question.
Reply

Rhubarb Tart
03-17-2012, 06:29 AM
Fine!

Of course sisters that never married would to be marry! Heck even non Muslim wants to get married.

Btw in future don't post female scientist if you believe our role is just mother and wife!

And if you were in my position you, you wouldn't give up your kid to marry! Read up on custody of child and I don't want to risk a "obeying" short end of the stick again!
Reply

Scimitar
03-17-2012, 06:33 AM
For your information, I am planning to marry a divorced woman with a five year old child.

Not all men are the same, and you don't have to give up your child... as you can see, I am living proof. Also, my intended wife, is a member on this forum - cosmicintuition is her username... And I bet if she saw your posts, she'd have you for breakfast.

As for the "female scientist" you mention, so you even know anything about Mariam? Or are you just putting that comment out there to try and stump me? Coz I tell you this, you';re looking to get cornered all over again.

next time do your homework... she wasnt a scientist.

format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
Btw in future don't post female scientist if you believe our role is just mother and wife!
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
Women can become Dr's Lawyers and whatever they like, as long as they fulfil their primary duty FIRST - to be a wife and a mother, meaning, raise the children and manage the home.
You clearly have a selective memory... eat more almonds.

Scimi

EDIT: Here sister sweet106, My fiance and I made this vid a few weeks back, maybe it will be of benefit to you. If Allah wills it.

Reply

Rhubarb Tart
03-17-2012, 06:44 AM
You think you everything islamically lol

Go read up what happen to child once their remarry! Then come back and talk!

She ( related info you posted early in page 1) invented something scientist would invent! Hence that makes her scientist!

Doesn't matter whether all isn't short end of the stick, a risk is a risk!

Do your homework!
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Scimitar
03-17-2012, 06:47 AM
Do my homework? Stop embarrassing yourself sister - You clearly do not know your Islamic history or even what you are talking about, she did not invent the astrolabe, she made exquisite versions of the astrolabe - and learnt the art from her father... the astrolabe was first made around the year 150bc, in the hellenistic period, Pre Islam and even pre Christianity... give yourself a facepalm.

Scimi

EDIT: please come with more rebuttals, I'm gonna school you so you learn.
Reply

Aprender
03-17-2012, 06:50 AM
I think maybe sometimes with marriage some men put culture over Islam and it becomes an issue where the man wants a wife to be a slave to him when really the woman should only be a slave to Allah (swt) and nothing else. That part is unfortunate and I admit before coming to Islam I didn't want to get married as a Muslim either because I had that perception...

With that said, I don't believe that all men think this way and I believe Allah (swt) will bring me a husband who doesn't treat me as his personal slave but will see me as his other half. Good to do thorough research on a potential spouse before tying the knot. I'm OCD about cleanliness and I expect a future husband to clean up after himself too (or else :raging:) as cleanliness is also apart of this deen too. Problems are inevitable but misery is optional.
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Scimitar
03-17-2012, 06:52 AM
Well said sister Apprender.

I do not like tradition, or culture - unless it's Islamic tradition and culture - and guess what (this is to sweet106) I am proud of this! I am proud to be a Muslim.

Scimi
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Rhubarb Tart
03-17-2012, 07:01 AM
My mistake, I am using my phone so saw half the screen.

Secondly, when I say do your homework, I was referring to child custody! Find out and the come to talk. I want to know your wife's expression! So surprised a woman getting married doesn't know that islamically she no longer has custody!

Thirdly, you stil posted a muslim doing a job other being a wife and mother!
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Scimitar
03-17-2012, 07:05 AM
Gosh, this is too easy...

format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
My mistake, I am using my phone so saw half the screen.
Accepted.

format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
Secondly, when I say do your homework, I was referring to child custody! Find out and the come to talk. I want to know your wife's expression! So surprised a woman getting married doesn't know that islamically she no longer has custody!
Her ex husband doesnt want custody ( he remarried ) and there is no one else to take the child. So, I have accepted the child as my own. I am aware of the laws regarding children in divorces... Don't assume I don't. Smirk.

format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
Thirdly, you stil posted a muslim doing a job other being a wife and mother!
I suggest you learn more about Mairam al Ijliya... You haven't a clue what you are talking about sister.

Scimi
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Rhubarb Tart
03-17-2012, 07:17 AM
You and your wife still nothing know about custody! She is not meant to give him to the father! It is her mother, if not available to auntie, if not available to father's mother, if not available to the father's sisters etc

She is not meant to keep the child! So much for knowing about Islam!

Enjoy sorting the custody!
Reply

Scimitar
03-17-2012, 07:18 AM
I told you I am aware of this law... and I also said
there is no one else to take her.
So get back on topic and admit you don't know what you are talking about... and maybe your heart will open up to actually learn something, rather than just get answers you "want" to hear so that you can feed your ego and therefore, think it is ok to go ahead and do what you want.

You know something? I've answered all your questions, but you are dodging mine... why is that? Cornered feeling again?

Scimi
Reply

hussain makki
03-17-2012, 07:28 AM
i do not know why people ask this question,
women is part of humankind,
men and women are equal in this world,
they are performing what ever they have strenght,
with security in nature,
women is same as responsible as men, in islam,
Reply

Scimitar
03-17-2012, 07:31 AM
Sister Sweet106,

I'm gonna say this for the final time: If you want real answers to your threads opening question - go to page 4 of this thread and download the PDF books I have linked you there... else, you can do the merry-go-round dance... dance til you get dizzy. You might even enjoy it. :D

I will keep you in my duas, and pray that you don;t feel so jaded about men, and don;t end up a bitter woman. See? I'm actually a very fair man.

Assalaam Alaikum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuhu...

Scimi
Reply

Rhubarb Tart
03-17-2012, 07:32 AM
So there is no auntie, no sisters in law, no female relative at all!

Please you were trying to show women can remarry with repercussions by using your d.a.m.n wife as an example!

Don't use your wife as example as you know she rare!

Don't try to feed with rubbish when your wifey is completely different!

Leave my son out in the cold to obey a man ? You are joking!
Reply

Scimitar
03-17-2012, 07:34 AM
Stay single then... and bitter... you obviously don't trust your own family or his family with your child. You have lost your trust in humanity. I fear a very dark road for you... I will most definitely keep you in my duas,

format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
your d.a.m.n wife
and also ask Allah to teach you some manners.

Scimi

EDIT:

Children are focus of gravity in Islamic Family tradition and law. When spouse are together, upbringing their child(ren) is paramount joint responsibility. Not only physical care and health, but emotional, educational, and religious welfare and well being are mutual responsibility.

When spouses separate by divorce or annulment, these welfare responsibilities get also split according to best abilities of each parent. While fathers are vested with financial burden and legal guardianship roles, mothers are given role of physical carer and emotive guardian of child(ren). Inherently, Islamic system balances between multitude levels of child(ren)’s need. In recognition of an infant’s need for female care, all the juristic schools give first preference to a mother’s claim to physical custody of her young child provided that she satisfies all the requirements for a female custodian.

After divorce during the period of the mother’s custody, she is generally entitled to receive custody wages from the father to help her maintain the child. Islamic Jurisprudential inferences Islamic law on custody of children after divorce is based on several hadith relating to how the Prophet sallalahu Alaihe wasallam dealt with cases brought before him. One of the key relevant hadith is the following: According to Amr Ibn Shu'aib, a woman came to the Prophet* and said: 'Truly my belly served as a container for my son here, and my breast served as a skin-bag for him (to drink out of) and my bosom served as a refuge for him; and now his father has divorced me, and he (also) desires to take him away from me.' The Prophet sallalahu Alaihe wasallam said: 'You have a better right to have him, as long as you do not marry again.

Hadith: Ibn Majah - The mother is recognised as generally the fittest person to take care of the children, because of the instinctive love and tenderness she feels for them and her closer contact with them throughout pregnancy, nursing, and childhood. However, if the mother marries again she would generally forfeit her right to custody. However, the period of female custody ends once the child reaches a certain age of custodial transfer. The Hanbali and Shafii schools do not distinguish between girls and boys regarding the duration of female custody. The Hanbalis maintain that the female custodian should have custody from birth until the child reaches the age of seven, at which point he or she may choose between parents. The Shafiis allow female custody until the child reaches the age of discretion and may choose either parent as custodian. The Malikis rule that female custody of a boy shall last until he reaches puberty, and for a girl until she marries. Under the Hanafi School, female custody of a boy ends when he is able to feed, clothe, and cleanse himself. Most Hanafi jurists set this age of independence at seven years, although some set it at nine. Hanafi jurists differ on when a mother’s custody of her daughter ends. Most maintain that the mother’s custody ends when the girl reaches puberty, set at either nine or eleven years of age. However, others allow the mother’s custody to last until the girl reaches the age of womanhood. Conditions of custody Whoever has custody of a child has to abide by conditions concerning residence and Islamic upbringing, to ensure that the child's welfare is properly cared for. The court may, if necessary, enforce these conditions or direct that the child be given to the next eligible custodian. The father should have access to his children, and he remains financially responsible for their maintenance and education even though they may be under the care of their divorced mother or one of her relations. Duration of custody and Transfers The duration of custody varies between the Four Schools of Islamic Jurisprudence as detailed earlier. There are different criterions for transfer of custody to next eligible candidate as per table below:


School of Law Transfer trigger Next eligible custodian Next eligible custodian Next eligible custodian
Hanafi Boy: 7 / 9 year age
Girl: marriage / 9-11 age
Boy: Choice of either parents
Girl: Father
Maternal grandmother / paternal grandmother Mother’s sister (khala)
Shafi’e 7 years age/ discretion age Choice of either parents Maternal grandmother / paternal grandmother Mother’s sister (khala)
Maliki Boy: Maturity Girl: Marriage Grandmother Maternal grandmother / Khala Paternal grandmother
Hanbali 7 years age Choice of either parents Maternal grandmother / paternal grandmother Mother’s sister (khala)


Source: Kuwaiti Encyclopaedia of Jurisprudence
Application of Sharia perspective in the West


Family courts in the UK and West in general are broadly in conformation with Islamic Law of custody, especially Maliki School. Since current social priorities are child(ren) centred in most aspects so is Islamic Sharia. Other perspectives reported earlier reflect the social trend of the time. For Mufti’s and Islamic Sharia courts choosing from Maliki perspective is not strange especially if it reflects current social policy trends. Islamic Sharia councils have little control over custodial orders. But they have a balancing act to perform when matters are in Sharia courts. Currently Family courts are overlooking father’s rights and input to child(ren) development. Recent high profile public protests reflect that imbalance in the courts orders. There is extensive lobbying and cry to give fathers significant contacts and say in child(ren) development. All major decisions affecting the life of child(ren) should be taken in consultation with both mother and father even after separation/divorce. General Islamic Sharia principles have major role to play in addressing that balance
.
Citations from Islamic Law Books on the issue of Custody for Children after divorce:
CHAPTER XIV. OF HIZANIT, OR THE CARE OF INFANT CHILDREN.

[In case of separation, the care of the infant children belongs to the wife-.
If a separation take place between a husband and wife who are possessed of an infant child, the right of nursing and keeping it rests with the mother, because it is recorded that a woman once applied to the Prophet; saying
"O Prophet of God ! This is my son, the fruit of my womb, cherished in my bosom and suckled at my breast, and his father is desirous of taking him away from me into his own care;"
to which the Prophet replied,
” thou hast a right in the child prior to that of thy husband, so long as thou dost not marry with a stranger;"
- moreover, a mother is naturally not only more tender, but also better qualified to cherish a child during infancy, so that committing the care to her is of advantage to the child; and Siddeek alluded to this, when he addressed Omar on a similar occasion, saying "the spittle of the mother is better for thy child than honey, O Omar!" which was said at a time when separation had taken place between Omar and his wife, the mother of Assim, the latter being than an infant at the breast, and Omar and Omar desirous of taking him from the mother ; and these words were spoken in the presence of may of the companions, none of whom contradicted him :-but the Nifka or subsistence of the child is incumbent upon the father, as shall be hereafter explained. It is to be observed however, that if the mother refuse to keep the child, there is no constraint upon her, as a variety of causes may operate to render her incapable of the charge. AL-HEDAYA Vol. I (Hanafi Manual) [Translated by Charls Hamilton, Published in London 1760)
"When a man who takes away his child from his mother, and then divorces her, is obliged to return the child to her. A man having married a woman at Busra, where she bears him a child, takes the child with him to Kufa, and there divorces the mother; whereupon she brings a suit against him for the child, contending that he must bring it back to her. If he took away the child by her own desire, he is not obliged to bring it back, and the woman should be told to go there and fetch it. But if the child was taken there without the mother's direction, he must bring it back to her. A man goes out from Busra to Kufa taking his wife and child with him, and then sends her back to Busra and divorces her. In such circumstances it is incumbent on him to send the child back to her, and he may be compelled to do so." (Hidayah, vol. I.; Fatawa-i-'Alamgiri, vol. I.; Durru 'l-Mukhtar, pg. 846; Jami'u 'r-Rumuz; Tagore Lectures, 1879; Bailie's Digest, p. 430.)
AL-RISALA (Maliki Manual) 33.09 NURSING (RADA') AND CUSTODY (HADANA) OF CHILDREN
A woman in wedlock shall suckle her own baby, except where women of her status do not suckle their babies. A divorced woman shall suckle her child at the child's father's expense. And she can take the reward for such suckling if she likes.
The custody of children is the responsibility of the mother after divorce. This condition shall remain in force until a boy becomes sexually mature, or until a girl is married away and the marriage consummated. If the mother dies or marries another husband, the right of custody passes into the hands of the grandmother; after her comes the maternal aunt. But if there are more of the mother's maternal relations the right shall pass into the hands of sisters and paternal aunts. And if there are none of these, the right passes into the hands of agnates.
And finally:

Keep me in your duas too. Insha-Allah, all will work out fine for you and your situation. I do understand how difficult it is to be a single parent. I hear it from my fiancé all the time... Be patient sister. If you don't want to marry at the moment, then that is fine - but don;t rule it out, because maybe in future, you never know. Finally, Don't assume too much of anyones situation, everyones situation is different, as you found out when conversing with me. best not to judge others lest we be judged harshly ourselves. On that note, Assalaam Alaikum.

Scimi
Reply

Rhubarb Tart
03-17-2012, 08:01 AM
Lol @ bitter and single!

Firstly, there is no female relatives on my side. Why should give up on a child I gave birth to and brought up? And his side. Plus I don't like his grandmother (ex mother) and she talks a lot behind my back! One woman doesn't equate the humanity!
Reply

Scimitar
03-17-2012, 08:07 AM
Admit it, you are bitter...

format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
Leave my son out in the cold to obey a man ? You are joking!
You know, the path to healing, is admitting you have a problem sister.

Scimi
Reply

Rhubarb Tart
03-17-2012, 08:28 AM
Lol @ you again
Bitter? I have FULL control on my life! The fake smile from ex in laws is because of the control I have. They can't mess with me, they no choice to respect me and that pretty goes for my brothers too.

I also have my son and living comfortably!
Reply

Scimitar
03-17-2012, 08:34 AM
Alhamdulillah, you don't need to convince me sis... just yourself.

Scimi
Reply

جوري
03-17-2012, 10:16 AM
May Allah swt ease your affairs sis insha'Allah ...

:w:
Reply

Rhubarb Tart
03-17-2012, 01:07 PM
Muslim Women in Science


There is an ingrained value in every Muslim, man and woman alike, to pursue knowledge and to learn about God's truth by studying the surrounding world. Prophet Mohammad (saws), advised his followers to seek knowledge wherever it can be found. In keeping with this value, Muslim women are continuing to make headway in the field of science and their graduation ratios often exceed those of western women in pursuing scientific degrees according to figures recently released by UNESCO.

Yet, very seldom do positive depictions of Muslim women get portrayed by the western mainstream media. In some cases, media profit depends upon a production team's ability to feed the myopic fantasies and stereotypes etched in the minds of many non-Muslims. Westerners are comfortable with stereotypes that Muslim women are oppressed because of Islam, which could not be further from the truth. The Islamic message, which stresses gender equity and rights for women, is often corrupted by competing cultural values that have no basis in Islam scripture.

The quest for knowledge has always applied to women in Islam. God has made no difference between genders in this area. The Prophet (saws) once said: "Seeking knowledge is a mandate for every Muslim (male and female)." (Sahih Bukhari)

During the International Congress on Muslim Women in Science Towards a Better Future, King Mohamed VI stressed that "...the integrated development of the principles of Islam and of scientific knowledge must be achieved irrespective of gender", according to a UNESCO report on the gathering that took place in 2000.

Muslim women in science have become leaders in their fields, receiving awards, earning patents and making contribution that further man's knowledge of the world, and yet the eyes of western cameras see through these women as if they do not exist. A tendency to avoid praise for Muslim achievements hides the seldom explored comparisons.

The fact is that the United States falls behind six Muslim countries in the percentage of women graduating in science to the total science graduate population. The countries whose ratio of women science graduates exceeds that of the United States are Bahrain, Brunei Darussalam, Kyrgyzstan, Lebanon, Qatar and Turkey. Morocco exceeds the United States in the ratio of women engineering graduates as a percentage of the science graduate population.

Rehab Eman, a Muslim woman with a Bachelor of Science in Architectural Engineering, and a Masters degree in Islamic Studies on Jerusalem credits Islamic values for what inspired her to pursue knowledge in a scientific field. Instead of holding Eman back, the Muslim men in her life, including her father and brother, encouraged her to work hard for her education. "My lecturers were men, my supporters were men, my sponsors were men. They believed in my talents...," she shares.

Traditionally, Muslim women have not been discouraged in the sciences to the extent that Western women have, which might be why statistics show such high ratios of Muslim women graduates in science fields as a percentage to the total science graduate population. However, in Muslim countries the real hurdles that affect women's education are the very same hurdles that affect men's education. These hurdles take the form of poverty, illiteracy, political instability and the policy of foreign powers.

Data that explains the real problem can be found by comparing the total educated populations of countries and regions of the world. A high degree of illiteracy and low levels of secondary school enrollment account for why there are less graduates overall in poorer countries than there are in wealthier regions like North America and Europe. In locales defined by UNESCO in their recent report, gross secondary school enrollment ratios are very low: Africa (below 40%), West Asia (below 60%), and East Asia (below 75%).

While some Islamophobic pundits are all too ready to make a correlation between poor education and what type of religion one practices, more accurate relationships can find their foundation in hard figures. National wealth and education forge a tight relationship. According to data from the UIS (UNESCO Institute for Statistics), national wealth is directly related to educational enrollment. Statistics show that the vast majority of medium-high and high income countries have a secondary school enrollment ratio above 90 percent. Poorer countries don't have the resources needed to make education a priority. Undoubtedly, the next question that gets asked is, "How do countries become poor?" Well, to the dismay of many hostile to the deen, poverty and Islam cannot be correlated any more successfully than illiteracy and Islam. While there is more than enough scriptural proof that Islam encourages education for both men and women, some fail to realize that when the disease of poverty attacks, it does so in disregard to any cultural or religious boundaries.

Obstacles to Education

Although there are obstacles to education in much of the non-Muslim world today, the Muslim world has endured some of the most hostile attacks in recent decades, which has affected the overall quality and safety for youth trying to obtain education. In war torn Afghanistan and Iraq, schools of all levels have been bombed and shelled by U.S. military forces. Public health is in jeopardy and infrastructure has been damaged and not rebuilt.

When state-sponsored super-power terrorism isn't being waged on weaker civilian populations, a form of quiet economic warfare is being waged behind a smokescreen of Public Relations razzle-dazzle by organizations like the IMF and World Bank, the culprits responsible, in part, for increasing third-world national debts and hitting other nations' education systems like a home run out of Yankee Stadium.

A self-proclaimed Economic Hit-Man, John Perkins, former Chief Economist for Chas. T. Main, confesses in a radio interview with Amy Goodman that his job was to build the American Empire by increasing other countries' national debt by using any means necessary.

"This empire, unlike any other in the history of the world, has been built primarily through economic manipulation, through cheating, through fraud, through seducing people into our way of life, through the economic hit men. I was very much a part of that," says Perkins.

Gender Inequity

Gender inequity does exist, but it is not relegated to Muslim countries. Some disparaging gender gaps in higher education exist where the religion of Islam isn't even practiced by a majority of the population. For example, only 44% of people enrolled in higher education in Switzerland are women, Guatemala (43%), Rwanda (37%), Korea (36%), Bhutan (34%), Cambodia (29%) and Liechtenstein (27%).

On the other side of the coin, in Tunisia, a country where 98% of people practice Islam, there were 5% more female students enrolled than males in higher education. Malaysian women made up 55% of the enrolled population in higher education, Lebanon (54%), Jordan and Libya (51%). Bahrain even exceeded the United States in the ratio of women enrolled in higher education by 6%. If education is freedom, then it looks like Muslim women in Bahrain are more liberated than American women.

Rather than Islam threatening a woman's right to education, governments hostile to Islam often set up roadblocks to prevent Muslim women from obtaining education. Both France and Turkey are guilty of this type of exclusionary persecution, all under the false guise of secularism. According to Human Rights Watch (HRW), a prestigious nongovernmental organization, these bans exclude thousands of women from institutions of higher learning each year. A 2004 HRW report states, "This restriction of women's choice of dress is discriminatory and violates their right to education, their right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion, and their right to privacy."

Exemplary Muslimah Scientists

Despite the fact that the Muslim woman is constantly being harassed about her choice in religion and must withstand relentless western media stereotypes that ridicule her faith and demonize the men of her culture, there exists an Islamic tradition celebrating women in science of which Muslims must remind the world. Today, the Islamic culture in which women are encouraged to participate, excel and lead in scientific fields continues to express itself, not only through statistical data, but in real, living, breathing and praying people. Although these women are exceptional, they are by no means the exception to the rule.

Professor Samira Ibrahim Islam

Professor Islam was nominated as a distinguished Scientist of the World For the Year 2000 by UNESCO. She made significant contributions in drug safety by defining the Saudi profile for drug metabolism. She has held several academic leadership posts in her own country as well as international diplomatic posts with the World Health Organization. Professor Islam has also been a key figure in building academic infrastructure, beginning in the '70s, to support women studying science in higher education in Saudi Arabia.

Sameena Shah

Recently at the international Workshop on Machine Learning in Canada, Samira Shah, presented an innovative algorithm in computerized cognitive leaning that she and a team of colleagues developed at IIT Delhi, India. Her previous academic contributions include a "Global Optimizer" for which a patent is pending. She is currently pursuing a doctorate degree from IIT Delhi.

Professor Dr. Bina Shaheen Siddiqui

Dr. Siddiqui has made significant contributions to medicine and agriculture through her study and classification of indigenous plant materials. She has been awarded several patents for anticancer constituents and biopesticides and has written more than 250 research articles. Pakistan Academy of Sciences elected her as a Fellow and she co-founded the Third World Organization for Women in Science. She received her Ph.D. and D.Sc. from the University of Karachi, Pakistan. She has been honored with several prestigious awards including the Khwarizmi International Award of Iran and Salam Prize in Chemistry.

Historic records show that women participated in science and medicine in Muslim societies. By contrast, in America, during the 1890's women could not be doctors, and yet, Muslim women doctors were seen as equals to their male counterparts hundred's of years earlier, they were even responsible for written contributions in the field. Also, women like Ijliya, an astrolab builder, were employed as skilled scientists in Muslim courts. Others made progress in pharmacology like Ishi Nili

Seeking knowledge is one of the most rewarding ways to connect to Al-Alim (The All Knowing) besides prayer. The believing faithful hold a deep love for Allah in their hearts. Perhaps it is this deep love that inspires believing men and women to strain and reach with their minds, through scientific learning in order to bring themselves closer to the One to whom they are so thankful.

"Iqra!" (read) was Allah's first command to Mohammad (peace be upon him) and its implications are numerous to Muslims living today. Read, be literate, seek and learn, discover and use the gifts and talents that Allah has granted us above animals. Use the mind to move closer to Al-Haadi (The Guide), as the Muslimah scientists have done in the past and are doing today.

WOMEN GRADUATES IN SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING

The data for years 2002/2003 contained in these tables describes the percentage of women graduates in science and engineering out of the total science and engineering graduate population in each country, and pertains to higher-education in science (life sciences, physical sciences, mathematics and statistics, computer sciences) and Engineering (engineering and engineering trades, manufacturing and processing, architecture and building) fields in countries with Muslim majorities for which data was available. (Statistics from the "Global Education Digest" report released from UNESCO Institute for Statistics 2005)

Woman Graduates in Science

Bahrain 74%
Bangladesh 24%
Brunei Darussalam 49%
Kyrgyzstan 64%
Lebanon 47%
Qatar 71%
Turkey 44%

Compared with...

U.S. 43%
Japan 25%

Women Graduates in Engineering

Eritrea 4%
Morocco 25%

Compared with...
U.S. 19%
Japan 13%
http://www.missionislam.com/science/mwscience.htm
Reply

Rhubarb Tart
03-17-2012, 01:30 PM
http://www.genengnews.com/blog-biote...in-science/21/


lecture by Imam Abdul Malik topic is WOMEN IN ISLAM; PART 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pepaCRPVvU

Women in Islam (part 2 of 3)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhW6n...eature=related

Women in Islam (part 3 of 3)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7Hcb...eature=related

The War Against Muslim Women - Abdullah Hakim Quick

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBGQlyx8OpY
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CosmicPathos
03-17-2012, 05:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ßlµêßêll
:sl:
akhi,

you speak of some idyllic utopia which unfortunately has little to do with the real world.. Most Muslim women I know have to work for the following reason and let me list those I know
1- her husband is disabled and she has seven kids unfortunately no degree beyond high school so she has to do menial work so for starters I stress education by the way they're both converts masha'Allah
2- one Pakistani lady her husband left her and with years of abuse doesn't even pay alimony to her kids, she worked as a pharmacist tech for pennies, put three of them through college masha'Allah
3- One polish convert her husband left her after obtaining his residency status for a Muslim woman from his own country, surprisingly wal7mdlillah she remained steadfast on Islam despite the obvious mal intent
4- widows my aunt was one
5- those who have never married, I have a cousin whose both parents died and her brother lives abroad and her younger sister is with three kids and lives away..
6- one whose father died, she actually is well educated but took a crappy job to pay the bills because her husband who could never hold down a job, came to the U.S on some 'green card' lottery was cheating on her while she was seven month pregnant and often time kicking her in the stomach so she'd abort and he'd not have to support some kids
7- many who are simply joining in the paycheck and I grew up in that kind of a household where both parents had to work to make ends meet.. so I find it somewhat unfortunate to create the scenario you've created above.. it is somewhat insulting..
I'd take a working woman over a housewife any day at least an educated housewife one can live with.. The only whining women I have encountered without exception are housewives who have never worked a day in their life.. You try getting up in the morning at 5, prepare your kids, head to work, put up with whatever abuse there's there come home make dinner and deal with an abusive husband see if there's much to complain or gossip about? contrast to a housewife whose will nit pick on ever last detail and are often very attention seeking. Sob7an Allah.. it is always these pampered sorts that expect everything else just for popping off kids I guess.. the rest of us are just mules who deserve the abuse left and right.....
w salam,

sister these are really exceptions rather than the rule. I wish I could help such muslim sisters so that they could focus on more important issues such as families (if they had any) or their deen. I think this is where Bait al maal created by Umar (ra) could help. It was precisely for such women (and men) so that they dont have to be abused by rat and cat race.

salam

p.s. as for entitlement issues, women born to rich daddies, and despite working in Ernst n Young with a 6 figure salary, still are whiny and complaining and all that. I think we cannot generalize housewives in favor of working women. I was in process of talking to one such high achiever (family friends) for marriage, thanks to Allah I escaped unscathed.
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CosmicPathos
03-17-2012, 06:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
The role of every man is to be husband and a father... just as it is for ever woman to be a mother and a wife. Man should go out and ear the bread, and woman should raise the family - it's called a partnership.

Women can become Dr's Lawyers and whatever they like, as long as they fulfil their primary duty FIRST - to be a wife and a mother, meaning, raise the children and manage the home.

I don 't understand why women want to work? I mean, why? It's a mans world - do you really want to be the subject of male scrutiny in a male dominated environment? Or is that women like to complain and there's nothing better to complain about than your boss' advancements towards you, or your fellow male colleagues talking you down? I don't get it. No wait - it's deadly simple - gossip. That must be it...

I'm pleased I have found a woman - a real woman, one who knows her role in Islam. And would love to fulfil it. She wants nothing more than to stay at home and raise children.

It is incumbent on ever man and woman to marry... and not to delay it. LOL that.

maybe this will help the ladies here:

http://www.kalamullah.com/Books/The Ideal Muslimah.pdf

http://www.kalamullah.com/Books/therightsandduties.pdf

http://www.kalamullah.com/Books/Wisdom behind laws regarding woman1.pdf

download these, read them and then have a good old ponder.

Scimi
bro, if you've noticed, these kind of women, such as lawyers and barristers etc, you've mentioned, they end up with same kind of husbands, husbands who have been zaanis in the past, were playboys or alcohol addicts, despite being high achievers and academics themselves. In general. The day you see a God-fearing mumin marry such a Western trained lawyer woman, do PM me.

Recently, a Pakistani journalist Shirmeen Obaid won oscar for her documentary. Pppl were singing praises about how "noble" soul she has. Watch her award ceremony and look at her dress. is that the disposition of someone with taqwa? Then I googled up her husband, meh, he is same type as her, hugging other women in the ceremony.
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CosmicPathos
03-17-2012, 06:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
Lol @ you again
Bitter? I have FULL control on my life! The fake smile from ex in laws is because of the control I have. They can't mess with me, they no choice to respect me and that pretty goes for my brothers too.

I also have my son and living comfortably!
aah the delusions. Dont ever get sick and go see a doctor if you have full control over your life. let's see how long this full control lasts. At this very moment, you are slave to nature. to your heart, to your brain, to your blood, to oxygen. Arrogance can really mess up one's head.
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Scimitar
03-17-2012, 06:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
bro, if you've noticed, these kind of women, such as lawyers and barristers etc, you've mentioned, they end up with same kind of husbands, husbands who have been zaanis in the past, were playboys or alcohol addicts, despite being high achievers and academics themselves. In general. The day you see a God-fearing mumin marry such a Western trained lawyer woman, do PM me.

Recently, a Pakistani journalist Shirmeen Obaid won oscar for her documentary. Pppl were singing praises about how "noble" soul she has. Watch her award ceremony and look at her dress. is that the disposition of someone with taqwa? Then I googled up her husband, meh, he is same type as her, hugging other women in the ceremony.
I am in full agreement of this.

Brother, the question these women don't ask is "what kind of fitna will I be for the men if I have to work alongside them?" and they do not even understand the connotations of this question...

connotations like "if i become a fitna for them, will part of the punishment be visited upon me too?"

Taqwa, they need to understand what that really is.

Scimi
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CosmicPathos
03-17-2012, 06:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
You haven't address racist part? Funny how you accuse a writer early of nationalism when you nationalist yourself? You are so proud of your culture, you wouldn't let your so called future daughter marry anyone else! Nationalist, racist and sexist all in one! One could never guess!
as proud as Prophet Muhammad pbuh was of his Quraishi lineage and from a pure lineage, which he was not but did acknowledge the benefits it gave him, people had to think twice before thinking to murder the Prophet pbuh, just because of his lineage and tribe.

If that is "racist" in your brain, so be it, I dont give peanuts. And if being dominant is sexist, so be it too. Let nature take its course!
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Scimitar
03-17-2012, 06:17 PM
Women in the workplace...

When I got engaged the second time around, I broke it off with the fiance after an incident... I mean, there were doubts due to other matters but this was a major contributing factor.

She used to work for well known sauce brand. One day at lunch time she called me and asked if I'd like to meet up after work, I said "yep". And trotted off down the tube when the time was near. Got to her workplace and noticed that as i was walking up to the building, she was waiting outside for me. Every male colleague of hers that was leaving the bulding got a kiss on the cheek and a friendly hug, evry female colleague? Just a friendly "bye see you tomorrow" kinda thing... this put me off her so much that I left her hanging and went straight home.

Good thing she never noticed me... Now, this is a woman who wore a hijaab and supposedly prayed her salaah 5 times (even at work)... I found that very hard to beleive after what I witnessed.

Scimi
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TrueStranger
03-17-2012, 06:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
I am in full agreement of this.

Brother, the question these women don't ask is "what kind of fitna will I be for the men if I have to work alongside them?" and they do not even understand the connotations of this question...

connotations like "if i become a fitna for them, will part of the punishment be visited upon me too?"

Taqwa, they need to understand what that really is.

Scimi
Are you associating having a higher education/degree/career with wearing revealing cloths?
Reply

Scimitar
03-17-2012, 06:19 PM
Look at the example above your post akhi.

Clothes... hmmm... you can be a full clothed Muslima, but if you can't control your mouth, you may as well be naked like the rest of these western chooks.

Scimi
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TrueStranger
03-17-2012, 06:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
Look at the example above your post akhi.

Scimi
Bro,

What does your personal encounter has to with making a correlation between higher education/career with sinning?
Reply

Scimitar
03-17-2012, 06:24 PM
I used an example... that is also from personal experience... double whammy.

If I didn't use real world examples, what kind of theoretical take will I be providing here? Answer that?

Scimi
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CosmicPathos
03-17-2012, 06:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
Are you associating having a higher education/degree/career with wearing revealing cloths?
most female cardiologists, neurologists etc that I do know, do in general wear clothes that are revealing. Skirts knee length with toned calves fully bare? At least in clinics, if not in OR. There they are forced to be conservatively dressed in scrubs.

I guess it goes without saying that good academic career goes along with possessing good genes and hence physical beauty, which then they expose. Doll up everyday before going to see patients, the very patients some of whom might be dying from cancer! Just dont want to look unsexy in front of such a patient.
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Scimitar
03-17-2012, 06:27 PM
Now isn't that the truth? I see this all too frequently.

Scimi
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TrueStranger
03-17-2012, 06:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
Look at the example above your post akhi.

Clothes... hmmm... you can be a full clothed Muslima, but if you can't control your mouth, you may as well be naked like the rest of these western chooks.

Scimi
I hope that is not directed towards me. If so, I suggest you take your own advice.

Again, what does your personal encounters have to do with making a direct correlation between having a higher degree and sinning?
Reply

TrueStranger
03-17-2012, 06:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
most female cardiologists, neurologists etc that I do know, do in general wear clothes that are revealing. Skirts knee length with legs fully bare? At least in clinics, if not in OR. There they are forced to be conservatively dressed in scrubs.

I guess it goes without saying that good academic career goes along with possessing good genes and hence physical beauty, which then they expose. Doll up everyday before going to see patients, the very patients some of whom might be dying from cancer! Just dont want to look unsexy in front of such a patient.
And i have seen plenty of women who work in the medical field that still wear their hijab and baggy pants. It goes without saying that you have your eyes too much on women that are revealed.
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Scimitar
03-17-2012, 06:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
I hope that is not directed towards me. If so, I suggest you take your own advice.

Again, what does your personal encounters have to do with making a direct correlation between having a higher degree and sinning?
Oh come on, sis, I know nothing about you... women are so defensive on this topic, to the point that each generalisation is somehow a direct insult to the one reading? I thought Muslims were bigger than this, clearly I was wrong...

... But hey, maybe you have a guilty conscious? and therefore feel like this is directed towards you? If so... humph.

But seriously sis, this is NOT directed towards you. Like I said above, I know nothing about you...

format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
And i have seen plenty of women who work in the medical field that still wear their hijab and baggy pants. It goes without saying that you have your eyes too much on women that are revealed.
Is it now... lol WOmen wearing baggy pants in the medical field... OK. Now that's new. I'm still waiting for the day I see this.

Scimi
Reply

جوري
03-17-2012, 06:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
w salam,

sister these are really exceptions rather than the rule. I wish I could help such muslim sisters so that they could focus on more important issues such as families (if they had any) or their deen. I think this is where Bait al maal created by Umar (ra) could help. It was precisely for such women (and men) so that they dont have to be abused by rat and cat race.

salam

p.s. as for entitlement issues, women born to rich daddies, and despite working in Ernst n Young with a 6 figure salary, still are whiny and complaining and all that. I think we cannot generalize housewives in favor of working women. I was in process of talking to one such high achiever (family friends) for marriage, thanks to Allah I escaped unscathed.
wa3lykoum aslaam wr wb akhi,

These really aren't the exception, this is the human condition. I remember once during one of my rotations I saw this friendly rep who looked like she was so pampered the type of woman who is really working for luxury and of course she wasn't Muslim and we struck up a conversation about Renal failure given the nature of the work and she said how her brother has PKD was dying and that she was working to support and again it was putting such a strain on her relationship that she was in the process of divorcing.. We like to judge people on appearance unfortunately and we don't know of the struggles people are going through, Muslims or Kaffirs, at least we've hope in Allah whereas they've none save those that Allah swt takes mercy upon.

Secondly even if all circumstances were ideal to have a 'housewife' what of the things life throws your way, from unexpected death, illness, divorce etc.? It is very difficult even for a highly educated woman to get back into the field if she's been out for a few years. This society isn't in the least bit forgiving toward women and forgive me for saying the men did away with our ummah to come and pick on the weaker members with their chauvinism of this is what you should be doing or that is what you should be doing because you know what .. I'll say you should bring back ummat Mohammed in lieu of complaining about working women.
I am not happy Muslim women suffer the highest rate of depression unfortunately, we're the least complaining of women out there (I don't know if there's a formal statistic on that) but just seeing what the kaffirs complain about to compare with what we withstand and still with constant judgement and the morality squad constantly shake their fingers at you.. As the brother said on the other thread. "yes we've the right to judge'' Sob7an Allah I guess no truer words were ever spoken.
If you want to take care of those 'exceptions' you'll drown in your woes.. have a look at your sisters in Iraq who resort to prostitution to feed their kids and ask yourself what led them to such a state before questioning the moral compass of working women. On the lowest common denominator we're able to give of what we make to help such folks even as little as it maybe.
There's only one woman in my family (through marriage) who in spite of having two houses, one of which is a vacation home, a car of her own, three lovely kids, more often than not it is the husband who is cooking while also giving of what he earns to support her dead beat brother and her dead beat mother while she was alive (yes she's a convert) she's always with a complain and all the topics had for discussion have to hover around a certain sphere that we all have to cater to simply out of respect for that one person.
I am free to generalize as you seem to do the same..
If more men would treat their women with Islamic mannerism in spite of difficulties encountered through life you'd find most of us are more than willing to meet them more than 90% through. But You want a woman to bow to you in worship and frankly none of you are khalid or Omar or Abu Bakr or or or .. you expect women to be like umahat alm'momneen but where are you from the sahabas for these lofty expectations?
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CosmicPathos
03-17-2012, 06:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
And i have seen plenty of women who work in the medical field that still wear their hijab and baggy pants. It goes without saying that you have your eyes too much on women that are revealed.
why wont I, when they make up majority of my professional colleagues? Why not feast the flesh? Sarcasm aside, I cant put blinders on my eyes just so they can look sexy.

Our psychiatry lecturer was something else, I wish I could convert and marry her.
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TrueStranger
03-17-2012, 06:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
Oh come on, sis, I know nothing about you... women are so defensive on this topic, to the point that each generalisation is somehow a direct insult to the one reading? I thought Muslims were bigger than this, clearly I was wrong...

... But hey, maybe you have a guilty conscious? and therefore feel like this is directed towards you? If so... humph.

But seriously sis, this is NOT directed towards you. Like I said above, I know nothing about you...

Scimi
Don't make statements that do not make your point while simultaneously using words such as "you".

And for the last TIME, are you correlating having a higher education, which every Muslim woman is entitled to with sinning?

Anyways, MODS, please do close this thread. These men are causing too much fitna for me.
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Scimitar
03-17-2012, 06:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
Our psychiatry lecturer was something else, I wish I could convert and marry her.
You kill me dude. ;D

Scimi
Reply

ardianto
03-17-2012, 06:35 PM
Housewife is not always good wife. Good wife is not always housewife. There are many working women who have responsibility to serve the husband, and attention to the kids, better than the wives who stay at home. There are many wives who stay at home but too busy with themselves and have less responsibility to the husband and the kids.

This is what I have seen in my place.
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Scimitar
03-17-2012, 06:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
Don't make statements that do not make your point while simultaneously using words such as "you".

And for the last TIME, are you correlating having a higher education, which every Muslim woman is entitled to with sinning?

Anyways, MODS, please do close this thread. These men are causing too much fitna for me.
Get educated, by all means... it's good to work that brain and have something to teach the children.

Women on this thread have selective memories...

format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
Women can become Dr's Lawyers and whatever they like, as long as they fulfil their primary duty FIRST - to be a wife and a mother, meaning, raise the children and manage the home.
... eat more almonds.

Scimi
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CosmicPathos
03-17-2012, 06:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ßlµêßêll
But You want a woman to bow to you in worship
A hadith says that if sajda was allowed to anyone else other than Allah, it would be to husband. I dont want my wife to bow to me even if it was allowed. I just want her to fulfill her roles diligently and myself to fulfill mine. And our roles are quite clear from Quran and Sunnah.
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TrueStranger
03-17-2012, 06:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
Get educated, by all means... it's good to work that brain and have something to teach the children.

Women on this thread have selective memories...

... eat more almonds.

Scimi

LOL! I think men on this thread never bothered to write down memorable statements.

Some almonds? ;D
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جوري
03-17-2012, 06:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
A hadith says that if sajda was allowed to anyone else other than Allah, it would be to husband. I dont want my wife to bow to me even if it was allowed. I just want her to fulfill her roles diligently and myself to fulfill mine. And our roles are quite clear from Quran and Sunnah.
You should quote what I have written in totality.. Your role which I pray to Allah swt you fulfill diligently isn't simply to provide for your family but to sustain and maintain the ummah.. A woman's J is her husband but a Man's J is what?

BTW I hold no ill will or grudges toward any Muslim men Allah swt knows of my intentions so if I may please me get this out of the way.. this is providing a little entertainment.. I don't really have a way to explain all this tension but it is quite amusing ;D
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Scimitar
03-17-2012, 06:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ßlµêßêll

this is providing a little entertainment.. I don't really have a way to explain all this tension but it is quite amusing ;D
I thought I was the only one lol.

Scimi
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TrueStranger
03-17-2012, 06:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
Women can become Dr's Lawyers and whatever they like, as long as they fulfil their primary duty FIRST - to be a wife and a mother, meaning, raise the children and manage the home.

Scimi

And your role is not to raise the children?

Lord, Heavens. Do these men even read how close the Prophet(PBUH) was with Fatima? That is a man (PBUH) that has raised the leader of Women in Paradise.

Raising children is not the primary role of women, it's the co-role of PARENTS and yes that means a HUSBAND(father) and a WIFE(mother).

There is a difference between being a sperm donor and being a father. Today most men just know how to donate their sperm.
Reply

Scimitar
03-17-2012, 06:55 PM
Uhm, you messed up your quote and put words in my mouth I never spoke... fix that. You must be nervous. I suggest some tea with almond cake. ;D

Scimi
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جوري
03-17-2012, 06:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
Today most men just know how to donate their sperm.
I wouldn't have had a problem with that if it weren't haram.. I feel all sorts of mawaddah and ra7mah is missing between people now astghfor Allah.. What concessions many women make just to have children from people who have no mercy or kindness in their hearts..
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جوري
03-17-2012, 06:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
I thought I was the only one lol.

Scimi
I really can't understand why things unraveled in such an ugly way? Can't we express points of view in a way that will bring resolution rather than endless contentions?
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TrueStranger
03-17-2012, 06:59 PM
Get more creative, the almond line appears to be a form of senility
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Scimitar
03-17-2012, 06:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ßlµêßêll
I wouldn't have had a problem with that if it weren't haram.. I feel all sorts of mawaddah and ra7mah is missing between people now astghfor Allah.. What concessions many women make just to have children from people who have no mercy or kindness in their hearts..
This is also a very true statement.

Unfortunately, these men usually ignore their role as a husband and a father... and even as a Muslim in most cases. However, I doubt that genuin God fearing Muslims who come to forums such as this fall into this category.

format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
Get more creative, the almond line appears to be a form of senility
Almonds increase your memory. They give 7 almonds to children taking hifz classes so they can memorize the Quran. As for senility? I think that applies more to yourself - since you obvioulsy do not know the angle I am taking here - and forget what I have written, misquote me, and generally make a right joke of what you are trying to say.

The almonds will help. Very beneficial food.

Scimi
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جوري
03-17-2012, 07:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
Get more creative, the almond line appears to be a form of senility
hey I just made almond croissants yesterday and I like to believe I am in full control of my faculties.. umm what were we talking about? ^o)
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CosmicPathos
03-17-2012, 07:02 PM
can someone breastfeed as a father??? Not unless he has gynceomastia and galactorrhea! wow, sperm donors are really not doing their jobs! I am glad that the govt has not it made obligatory yet for fathers to induce gynecomastia in order to take equal care of their babies!

scimi: not almonds, lets have some roasted cashews :D
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TrueStranger
03-17-2012, 07:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ßlµêßêll
I wouldn't have had a problem with that if it weren't haram.. I feel all sorts of mawaddah and ra7mah is missing between people now astghfor Allah.. What concessions many women make just to have children from people who have no mercy or kindness in their hearts..
Honesty sis, the more involved I get into the Muslim ummah the more shocked I become. People are making a big deal about a woman getting educated and working. Something that even the hunter-gathering societies did. Work is part of the family structure and associating everything negative with working Muslim women is insulting to every woman that knows her relationship with God.

I don't know what is going on but we have a new generation that thinks that marriage is about "roles and duties" only.
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جوري
03-17-2012, 07:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
I am glad that the govt has not it made obligatory yet for fathers to induce gynecomastia in order to take equal care of their babies!
you never know :p could be the it thing in the next 10-20 yrs
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Aprender
03-17-2012, 07:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ßlµêßêll
hey I just made almond croissants yesterday
*random* Those almond croissants looked so good! I'll need that recipe.
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TrueStranger
03-17-2012, 07:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
Almonds increase your memory. They give 7 almonds to children taking hifz classes so they can memorize the Quran. As for senility? I think that applies more to yourself - since you obvioulsy do not know the angle I am taking here - and forget what I have written, misquote me, and generally make a right joke of what you are trying to say.

The almonds will help. Very beneficial food.

Scimi

Ha, someone is getting too touchy.;D Realize Almond man, your memory services you well.
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Scimitar
03-17-2012, 07:16 PM
Astagfirullah, how dare you assume I am the touchy feely type ... you are not my mahram ;D

Scimi
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Aprender
03-17-2012, 07:16 PM
I love how our discussions on this message board transition to wonderful things like almonds. You are all awesome.
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TrueStranger
03-17-2012, 07:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
can someone breastfeed as a father??? Not unless he has gynceomastia and galactorrhea! wow, sperm donors are really not doing their jobs! I am glad that the govt has not it made obligatory yet for fathers to induce gynecomastia in order to take equal care of their babies!

scimi: not almonds, lets have some roasted cashews :D
There are plenty of men with man-boobs these days. Might as function as breasts.
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Scimitar
03-17-2012, 07:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aprender
I love how our discussions on this message board transition to wonderful things like almonds. You are all awesome.
Almomds, cashews... and my favourite, Pistacchios (nom nom nom) :)

Scimi
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Aprender
03-17-2012, 07:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
There are plenty of men with man-boobs these days. Might as function as breasts.
This is true. I thought it was a growing trend on campus at the university for men to have man-boobs. Like the new "in" thing... ^o)
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جوري
03-17-2012, 07:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aprender
*random* Those almond croissants looked so good! I'll need that recipe.
:haha: you know I never follow recipes this is how I did it
3 cups of flour you can use whole wheat if you're one of those health nuts, one cup of milk although now in retrospect it might have been too much given how doughy my dough was.. a packet of yeast 2 table spoons sugar and one tea spoon salt.. make sure if u use milk or water that it is warm for the yeast to do its thing.. and then leave it out to rise for an hour or so cover with we towel.. and then have two sticks of butter at room temperature.. incorporate it into the dough.. put in the fridge and take it out every hour and use the rolling pin so that it is completely incorporated into the dough.. then leave it over night in the fridge.. next day you know flour your cutting board and such and then start your rolling pin from the middle leave the other half of that dough in the fridge because of the butter it melts fast.. anyhow after you made it thin cut into triangles put the almond paste in the wider part of the triangle and roll it, brush with egg wash and put some slivered almonds on top leave it outside for 20 mins before the over so they rise and then work on the other half of the dough same way.. takes about 20 mins in the oven at 350..

et voila enjoy
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جوري
03-17-2012, 07:20 PM
now my recipe for a white chocolate mocha is to die for and can be coupled with this croissant but that's a topic for another day and another thread..
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Scimitar
03-17-2012, 07:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
There are plenty of men with man-boobs these days. Might as function as breasts.
LOOOL. This is true too.

There is a well documented case of a male TV presenter in the UK who produced breast milk, and yeah, he had those "man boobs"... he also worked in childrens TV, freak.

Scimi
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TrueStranger
03-17-2012, 07:21 PM
"Touchy feely type" ^o)


Yea, my mistake. Only non-mahram "stony-hearted" men would use such words.
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Scimitar
03-17-2012, 07:22 PM
Let me ask you TrueStranger,

What is the role of women in Islam?

Scimi
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TrueStranger
03-17-2012, 07:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aprender
This is true. I thought it was a growing trend on campus at the university for men to have man-boobs. Like the new "in" thing... ^o)
LOL! I blame McDonalds. ;D
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جوري
03-17-2012, 07:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
LOOOL. This is true too.

There is a well documented case of a male TV presenter in the UK who produced breast milk, and yeah, he had those "man boobs"... he also worked in childrens TV, freak.

Scimi
Maybe the poor chap had a macroadenoma or was on antipsychotic meds.. anyhow men breasts are called moobies.. I coined that term..
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Scimitar
03-17-2012, 07:24 PM
Goh I love this thread... it's nuts.

(see what i did there?)

Scimi
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جوري
03-17-2012, 07:25 PM
I am confused like I got on the wrong bus
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~Zaria~
03-17-2012, 07:26 PM
Assalamu-alaikum,



I am a 20-year-old girl studying engineering. I work during the summer in a stationary store; in order to pay my college fees, am I sinful? I wear niqab, and sometimes feel that no religious man proposes to me for this reason.

Praise be to Allaah.

Firstly:

The basic principle is that a woman should remain at home, and not go out except for necessary purposes. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And stay in your houses, and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance”

[al-Ahzaab 33:33].

Although this is addressed to the wives of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), it also applies to the believing women. It is only addressed to the wives of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) because of their honour and status with the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and because they are examples for the believing women.

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Woman is ‘awrah, and if she goes out, the shaytaan raises his hopes (of misguiding her). She is never closer to Allaah than when she stays in her house.” Narrated by Ibn Hibbaan and Ibn Khuzaymah; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in al-Silsilah al-Shaheehah, no. 2688.

And he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said concerning a woman’s prayer in the mosque: “Their houses are better for them.” Narrated by Abu Dawood (567) and classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.

For more information please see the answer to question no. 6742.

Secondly:

It is permissible for a woman to go out of her house for work, but that is subject to certain conditions. If they are met, it is permissible for her to go out. They are:

- That she needs to work in order to acquire the money she needs, as in your case.

- The work should be suited to the nature of woman, such as medicine, nursing, teaching, sewing, and so on.

- The work should be in a place that is only for women, and there should be no mixing with non-mahram men.

- Whilst at work she should observe complete shar’i hijab.

- Her work should not lead to her travelling without a mahram.

- Her going out to work should not involve committing any haraam action, such as being alone with the driver, or wearing perfume where non-mahrams can smell it.

- That should not lead to her neglecting things that are more essential for her, such as looking after her house, husband and children.

Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen said:


The field in which a woman works should be only for women, such as if she works in teaching girls, whether in administration or technical support, or she works at home as a seamstress sewing clothes for women and so on.

As for working in fields that are for men, this is not permissible for her because it requires her to mix with men, which is a great fitnah (source of temptation and trouble) and should be avoided.

It should be noted that it is proven that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I have not left behind me any fitnah that is more harmful to men than women; the fitnah of the Children of Israel had to do with women.”

So the man should keep his family away from places of fitnah and its causes in all circumstances. End quote.

Fataawa al-Mar’ah al-Muslimah (2/981)

If these conditions are met in your work, then there is nothing wrong with you doing it in sha Allaah.

We ask Allaah to grant you a righteous husband, for He is able to do that.

And Allaah knows best.
Islam Q&A


Debates of this nature would not occur if we are able to be pleased with the commands of Allah (subhanawata'la) and His messenger (sallalahu alaihi wasalam) - despite how difficult it is or how we may feel about it.

From my own personal expierence, it is extremely difficult to avoid all contact with non-mahram men at the work-place, even in fields such as medicine/ teaching/ social work, etc.

In this regard - it is up to us to do our best, to avoid such contact as far as is humanly possible.


So - as women, we do not go out seeking roles that are known to be male-dominated......in addition to all that has been mentioned above.

You may think that permitting women to work in the medical/ teaching/ other nurturing roles as being unfair......

But do consider:

- how much more preferable is it to seek medical attention as a woman, from a female physician/ gynaecologist/ obstetrician etc?
- how much more preferable is it to have our daughters taught by female teachers?

The same cannot be applied to woman going out to work in business and other fields that are managed adequately by our male counter-parts.



I hope this answers your question @sweet106, insha Allah.


:wa:
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Scimitar
03-17-2012, 07:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ßlµêßêll
I am confused like I got on the wrong bus
Was a pun. nevermind

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Scimitar
03-17-2012, 07:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ~Zaria~
Assalamu-alaikum,







Debates of this nature would not occur if we able to be pleased with the commands of Allah (subhanawata'la) and His messenger (sallalahu alaihi wasalam) - despite how difficult it is or how we may feel about it.

From my own personal expierence, it is extremely difficult to avoid all contact with non-mahram men at the work-place, even in fields such as medicine/ teaching/ social work, etc.

In this regard - it is up to us to do our best, to avoid such contact as far as is humanly possible.


So - as women, we do not go out seeking roles that are known to be male-dominated......in addition to all that has been mentioned above.

You may think that permitting women to work in the medical/ teaching/ other nurturing roles as being unfair......

But do consider:

- how much more preferable is it to seek medical attention as a woman, from a female physician/ gynaecologist/ obstetrician etc?
- how much more preferable is it to have our daughters taught by female teachers?

The same cannot be applied to woman going out to work in business and other fields that are managed adequately by our male counter-parts.



I hope this, insha Allah answers your question @sweet106.


:wa:
Well said sister Zaria.

Scimi
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TrueStranger
03-17-2012, 07:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
Let me ask you TrueStranger,

What is the role of women in Islam?

Scimi

I can not speak for every woman. However, we already know what the role of humans are in Islam, and that does not exclude women. My first primary role in Islam is to Worship God. Being a mother or a wife is a natural role that is not exclusive to female Muslims only.
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Scimitar
03-17-2012, 07:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
Being a mother or a wife is a natural role that is not exclusive to female Muslims only.
Something very wrong with this line... are you implying that men can be mothers too? ;D

Scimi
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CosmicPathos
03-17-2012, 07:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
Being a mother or a wife is a natural role that is not exclusive to female Muslims only.
huh. I dont have a womb, nor do I have heaven under my feet.
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Scimitar
03-17-2012, 07:34 PM
let me ask you again TrueStranger,

What is the role of women in Islam? you're last try was a bit of a fail.

Scimi
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TrueStranger
03-17-2012, 07:35 PM
LOL! You two are naturally funny.

It's not exclusive to female Muslims, therefore it also includes Non-Muslims.

Scimi, you already have my answer. When the Quran talks about Mothers, it details their rights over their children. When the Quran talks about wives, it speaks of marriage rights.

You can not take a natural role like motherhood and turn it to the only role a woman could have in Islam.


Last time I checked Aisha did not have any children. So other than being a Wife, tell me what was her role?


Answer that and you have your answer.


Salaam Aliakum
Reply

Scimitar
03-17-2012, 07:36 PM
you are dodging the question...

What is the role of women in Islam? Your answer?

Scimi
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CosmicPathos
03-17-2012, 07:44 PM
I am pretty sure Ayesha (ra) was not dolling up and working shoulder to shoulder with men. Rather she was within her house, tending to her husband's needs and her needs, and educating other men and women from behind the curtains of her house.
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CosmicPathos
03-17-2012, 07:46 PM
as for man-boobs part, you are keeping quite an eye on men's chests. :S

either these men are obese, or they have pituitary adenoma or taking dopamine antagonists. Or they are not really men due to low testosterone, failure of negative feedbaack on LH release, and that stimulates breast tissue growth.
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TrueStranger
03-17-2012, 07:47 PM
I guess you want an answer which is not "To Worship Allah". Subhan"Allah Brother, what is the matter?

Or do you have another role for Muslim women, because their sexual reproduction has more value than their status as a MUSLIM?

Again, congrats to you in your upcoming marriage. I will say Salaam Aliakum to you for the last time. Have a blessed life. :statisfie
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Scimitar
03-17-2012, 07:50 PM
Walaykum salaam and thanks for the dua :)

Wth regard to your answer, apart from stating the obvious... A little read from any of these books may have allowed you to expand a little on your one liner answer...

http://www.kalamullah.com/Books/The Ideal Muslimah.pdf

http://www.kalamullah.com/Books/therightsandduties.pdf

http://www.kalamullah.com/Books/Wisdom behind laws regarding woman1.pdf

Scimi
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~Zaria~
03-17-2012, 07:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
When the Quran talks about Mothers, it details their rights over their children. When the Quran talks about wives, it speaks of marriage rights.

You can not take a natural role like motherhood and turn it to the only role a woman could have in Islam.


Last time I checked Aisha did not have any children. So other than being a Wife, tell me what was her role?


Ukthi, Islam is not a field where muslims, as un-scholared as ourselves can open the Quraan and Hadith - and try to extrapolate rulings for ourselves, based on a few ayats/ narrations here and there.

We are being truly mistaken if we think that this is how this deen is meant to be interpreted.

If you are unsure of a matter in fiqh - turn to those who do possess the knowledge in this field.

You are far less likely to become misled by turning down incorrect avenues, or by attempting to take such weighty decisions in your own hands.

This deen is not a trifle matter.
And we should approach it as such.


:wa:
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Scimitar
03-17-2012, 07:57 PM
This ^ is all.

Very well said sister Zaria.

Scimi
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TrueStranger
03-17-2012, 07:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
I am pretty sure Ayesha (ra) was not dolling up and working shoulder to shoulder with men. Rather she was within her house, tending to her husband's needs and her needs, and educating other men and women from behind the curtains of her house.
She was not just working shoulder to shoulder with men, she was assisting them in one of the most dangerous place for women, the battle field.

Muslim narrated on the authority of Anas: "Aisha and Om Salim had their sleeves up one day and they were carrying water flasks on their backs that they then gave people to drink. Then, they went back and filled them".

The Bro-romance between you to is amazing. ;D I Kidding. Don't cry to the mods.


We already know the obesity levels in America. Man-Boobs are everywhere.
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Scimitar
03-17-2012, 08:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
The Bro-romance between you to is amazing.
I love my brothers and sisters in Islam. Problem? lol


Read Zaria's post above, pulling hadeeth out of context the way you have is something very - facepalm worthy.

First of all, even women during the second world war did something similar... infact it was the women who rebuilt the nations after the wars... also, with regard to war time referenced hadeeth, this does reflect with the normailty of non war time efforts. Double fail. Try again.

Scimi
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TrueStranger
03-17-2012, 08:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ~Zaria~
Ukthi, Islam is not a the field where muslims, as un-scholared as ourselves can open the Quraan and Hadith - and try to extrapolate rulings for ourselves, based on a few ayats/ narrations here and there.

We are being truly mistaken if we think that this is how this deen is meant to be interpreted.

If you are unsure of a matter in fiqh - turn to those who do possess the knowledge in this field.

You are far less likely to become misled by turning down incorrect avenues, or by attempting to take such weighty decisions in your own hands.

This deen is not a trifle matter.
And we should approach it as such.


:wa:
Salaam Aliakum sister, what matters of fiqh did I indulge in? Islam does acknowledge the status of a wife and a mother. However, does that mean that Islam has limited women to those roles? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Islam does not forbid the meeting of men and women when it comes to social organization and contribution. What most people here don't understand its that working fields have laws and purposes to benefit society in general. However, that does not mean that one has to commit haraam staff in the process or ignore safety-nets that are meant to protect the decency of both genders.

It is completely wrong to ban, restrict, and harass women who are trying to earn a living in a professional and Islamic manner, because certain females and men decide to not fear Allah. I'm sorry sister, but if a woman could ask questions to Omar (R.A) in the Mosque and challenge his stance, then today I have the right to question and challenge men who are culturally polluting Islam. There should be rules which prevent men and women from interacting inappropriate in the working Place and even the Non-Muslims have this policies and implement them better than any Muslim nation would.

I agree with everything Sheikh Qaradawi is saying in the below Article. I will make this post my last on this matter.

Qaradawi on Free-Mixing of Men and Women
Visit Dr. Yousuf Al-Qaradawi's Website


Our problem, as I said before and will always say, is that we tend to go to extremes when dealing with social and intellectual issues. We are rarely guided to the 'middle' which represent one of the general and most prominent features of Islamic theology and commandments.

This is strikingly clear in this issue as well as all other issues related to contemporary Muslim women.

Two opposite types of people have been unfair to women:

1. The Westernized type who want to impose Western traditions, which include decadence and lack of values - especially religious, and deviation from normal nature. In addition to staying away from the rightly guided path, that Allah has sent prophets and holy books to show to the people and call them to abide by.
They want the Muslim woman to follow the habits of Western women, inch by inch and foot by foot as was visualized in the hadith of the prophet: "Even if she enters the lizard's hole she follows her even it was twisted and narrow and smelled bad." Nevertheless, if the Western woman enters it, the Muslim woman follows suit. Or in other word, a new kind of amicability that some tried to propagate that was known as "Amicability of the lizard's hole".

Those people are not aware of what the Western woman complains of today and the negative repercussions that the 'open' mixing of sexes has brought upon her, upon men, the family and the whole society. They shut their ears to the screams of dissatisfaction that filled the horizons of the Western world, as well as the screams of the scientists and literary men, and the fears of intellectuals and the reformists of the whole civilization that was affected as a result of canceling all restrictions on the mixing of sexes.
Those people also forget that every nation has its personality that is formed by its beliefs and visualized it to the universe, life, existence and the God of existence, as well as its values, heritage and customs. It is not right for a society to copy another one.


2. The second half are those who force other traditions on women but they are the traditions of the East not the West. Those traditions are given a religious color. Those people who made those claims made them from their sides; based on something that they understood, or a view that they initiated or preferred because it suits their view on women and their disrespect for her, her religion, her brains or her behavior.
Nevertheless, it is no more than the viewpoint of a human who can make mistakes due to the effect of time or place on him, the effect of his sheikhs and his school. He is opposed by other views that basing their opinions on what is Sahiih in the Glorious Quran, and in the wisdom of the Noble prophet and the stands of the companions.

I would like to state that the word 'mixing' in the area of the relationship between men and women is a new word that has entered into our Muslim dictionary. It was never known to our long heritage for the past centuries, and was not known except in this period. Perhaps it was a translation of a 'foreign' word that carries this meaning. Its implication is not a comfortable one to the senses of a Muslim person.
It would have been better to use the words meeting, gathering, or women's participation with men or something of the sort.

In any case, Islam does not issue a general ruling on this matter. Islam looks at it in the light of the objectives behind it or the benefits gained as well as possible harms and in what form it takes place and the conditions that should be met, etc.

The best guidance is that of Muhammad (PBUH) and that of the rightly guided caliphs and companions.

The onlooker would find that women were not imprisoned nor kept apart as has happened in the ages of the backwardness of Muslims.

Women used to attend the Jamaa (congregational) prayers and the Friday prayers in the Mosque of the Prophet. The prophet encouraged them to take their places in the rows behind the men. The further they could stand the better, as he feared that something would show of men's bodies, for most of them did not know shorts/trousers. There was no separation between men and women of cement, wood, cloth or anything else.

At the beginning men and women used the same door. When this caused crowding on entry and exit the prophet said: "If you could keep this door for women." They made that door for women and it became known up until today as the door of women.

Women at the time of the prophet attended the Jumaah prayers and listened to the speech. One of them memorized Surat 'Qaaf' from the prophet's own voice as a result of hearing him say it from the Friday minbar.

Women also attended the prayers of the two feasts and participated in this big Islamic festival that included the young and old, men and women, out in the open, praising God out loud.

Muslim narrated: (Om Attiyah said: "We were all ordered to go out on the two feasts: the women who never leave home and the virgins.)

In a story she said: "The prophet PBUH ordered us to go out in the Fetr and Adha - those who attained puberty, those who had their periods, those who were confined to their quarters. As for women who have their period, they do not pray but attend the event and the preaching. I said: "O Prophet! One of us might not have a jilbaab (long dress)". He said: "Let her sister give her a dress of her own."

This is a Sunnah that Muslims have killed in some or all countries except what some youth did lately during the Islamic awakening. They brought to life what died years ago such as spending the last 10 days of Ramadan in seclusion and the Sunnah of having women attend the prayers of the feast.

Women attended lessons of knowledge, given by the prophet, with men. They asked about issues related to their religion that many women today would be embarrassed to ask. Aisha praised the Ansaari women saying that the shyness did not stop them from understanding their religion. They asked about the major ritual impurity, sexual maturity, washing, the period, sexual maturity as well as other such things.
It was not enough for women to attend. They wanted the prophet to themselves and asked him to make one day for them where men would not outnumber them. So the prophet dedicated a day for them and gave them wisdom and commandments.

Women's actions went further and they participated in the war effort to provide services for the army and the fighters in the ways that they are capable of and are good at: nursing, first aid, caring for the injured and wounded, in addition to other services such as cooking, giving water and preparing what the fighters would need of civil matters.

Om Atiyya said: "I took part with the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) in seven battles. I would stay behind in the camp of men, cook their food, treat the wounded and nurse the sick." - narrated by Muslim.

Muslim narrated on the authority of Anas: ("Aisha and Om Salim had their sleeves up one day and they were carrying water flasks on their backs that they then gave people to drink. Then, they went back and filled them".) The presence of Aisha here, and she was under twenty, answers the claims of those who said that participating in campaigns and battles was confined to elderly women. That is not true. What would elderly women be able to do in situations that need physical and psychological ability combined?

Imaam Ahmed narrated: "Six women from the believers were with the army that was putting Khaybar under siege. They were handling arrows, giving water, taking care of the wounded, weaved and worked for the sake of God." The prophet gave them a share of the booty.

It is true that the women of some of the companions participated in military campaigns and Islamic battles by carrying weapons, when they had the chance. It is well known what Om Umara; the relative by marriage of Ben Ka3b did on the day of Uhud. The prophet said about her: "Her status is better than that of such and such a person."

Muslim narrated on the authority of Anas, her son: (Om Selim also carried a dagger on Hunayn that she used to stab the stomach of anyone who came near her. Her husband Talhah saw her and said: O prophet! This is Om Selim with a dagger. So the prophet asked her: "What is this dagger?" She said: I took it so that if any of the disbelievers came near me I would stab his stomach. The prophet laughed.") Narrated by Muslim, number 1809.

Al-Bukhari in his Sahiih has a chapter on the campaigns of women and their fighting.

The ambition of Muslim women at the time of the prophet and his companions - did not stop at participating in campaigns in nearby battles that were close to Arab land such as Khobayr and Honayn. It went further than that into aspiring to take to the sea and participating in opening far away lands to convey the message of Islam.

In the Sahiih of Al-Bukhari and Muslim, on the authority of Anas: (The prophet was at Om Haram Ben MalHan, the aunt of Anas, one day. Then he woke up laughingly so she asked him: O prophet what is making you laugh? He said: "People from my nation asked me to go on military campaigns for the sake of Allah, riding the sea, kings on beds or like kings on beds." So she said: O prophet! Pray that I be one of them. He prayed for her. Om Haram rode the sea during the time of Othman with her husband Ibaadah Ben Al-Samit to Cyprus. She fell off her camel. She died and was buried there according to the narration of the people of sirah and history.)

In the social life women participated in calling for good things, ordering that good deeds be done and forbidding bad deeds as Allah Almighty said: (The Believers, men and women, are protectors, one of another: they enjoin what is just, and forbid what is evil: they observe regular prayers, practice regular charity, and obey Allah and His Messenger. On them will Allah pour His Mercy: for Allah is Exalted in power, Wise.) (At-Tawbah:71)

Another famous incident related to the response that a woman gave to Omar in a Mosque in the case of Al-Mahwar. Omar changed his opinion and accepted hers openly saying: "The woman was right and Omar was wrong.". Ibn Kathir mentioned it in the Tafsiir of Surat An-Nisaa2 and said that its isnaad was jayyid.

Omar had appointed, during his caliphate, Ash-Shafaa2 Ben Abdullah Al-Adawaiyyah as 'mu7tasibah' or controller of prices and supervisor of trade honesty over the market. The one who looks deeply in the Quran and how it talks about women in the different ages and in the life of the messengers and the prophet does not feel this iron curtain that people have put between men and women.

We find that Moses - while he was at the peak of his youth and strength - talking to the two girls, the daughters of the old Sheikh. He asked them questions and they answered without being guilty or embarrassed. He helped them gallantly. One of them goes to him later, sent by her father, to invite him to go with her to her father. Then one of them suggests to her father that he make use of him because of what she saw in him of strength and honesty.

Let us read what came in Surat Al-Qasaas (verses 23-26): (And when he arrived at the watering (place) in Madyan, he found there a group of men watering (their flocks), and besides them he found two women who were keeping back (their flocks). He said: "What is the matter with you?" They said: "We cannot water (out flocks) until the shepherds take back (their flocks): and our father is a very old man."

So he watered (their flocks) for them; then he turned back to the shade, and said: "O my Lord! truly am I in (desperate) need of any good that Thou dost send me!"

Afterwards one of the (damsels) came (back) to him, walking bashfully. She said: "My father invites thee that he may reward thee for having watered (our flocks) for us." So when he came to him and narrated the story, he said: "Fear thou not: (well) hast thou escaped from unjust people."

Said one of the (damsels): "O my (dear) father! engage him on wages: truly the best of men for thee to employ is the (man) who is strong and trusty.")


In Mariam's case, we find that Zakariya used to enter her 'miHraab' and ask her about the 'rizk' he found there. (Al-Imraaan: 37)

(Right graciously did her Lord accept her: He made her grow in purity and beauty; to the care of Zakariya was she assigned. Every time that he entered (her) chamber to see her, he found her supplied with sustenance. He said: "O Mary! Whence (comes) this to you?" She said: "From Allah: for Allah provides sustenance to whom He pleases, without measure.")


In the story of Queen of Saba', we find her gathering her people to consult them on the issue of Suleiman (An-Naml 32-34)

(She said: "Ye chiefs! advise me in (this) my affair: no affair have I decided except in your presence."They said: "We are endued with strength, and given to vehement war: but the command is with thee; so consider what thou wilt command."

She said: "Kings, when they enter a country, despoil it, and make the noblest of its people its meanest; thus do they behave.)


It cannot be said: this is the legislation of those before us so we do not need it. The Quran did not mention this to us except to let the rightly guided ones gain guidance from and remember its wisdom.

It is therefore true to say: the legislation before us as mentioned in the Quran and the Sunnah is a legislation for us as long as it had not been copied to our legislation. God Almighty said to his prophet: (Al-An3aam: 90)

(Those were the (prophets) who received Allah's guidance: copy the guidance they received; say: "No reward for this do I ask of you: this is no less than a Message for the nations.")


Keeping a woman at home, between its four walls and not letting her out was considered in the Quran - in one of its sates of legislation before the famous verse of punishment on adultery - as a severe punishment to Muslim women who committed adultery. Allah Almighty said in Surat An-Nisaa': 15)

(If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four (reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or Allah ordain for them some (other) way.)


Later, Allah allowed women to go their way when the legislation on adultery was revealed which is the whipping that was mentioned in the Quran for those who are not sheltered (married) and the stoning to those who are sheltered.

So how can the logic of keeping respectable and honorable Muslim woman at home be in line with the logic of the Quran and Islam?! It is as if we will punish her an everlasting punishment when she has not committed a sin.



Conclusion

The meeting of men and women is not 'haraam' but is acceptable or required if the objective was participation in a noble cause, related to useful knowledge or good deeds, or a beneficial project or a necessary 'jihaad', or otherwise of the activities that need combining the efforts of the two sexes and cooperation between them in the planning, direction and execution.

This does not mean that the barriers between them should melt and the legislative barriers related to meetings between two parties are forgotten. People should not claim that they are pure angels that nobody should fear for or from. They want to transfer the Western society to us. The duty is to participate in good deeds and cooperate in what is charitable and pious within the framework that was drawn by Islam, which includes:

1. Keeping the eyes lowered politely between the two parties. They should not look at each other's private parts of the body 'al-3awrah', nor look with passion, nor look for longer than necessary. (Surat An-Nuur 1)

(Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: and Allah is well acquainted with all that they do.

And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; ....)
2. Women should stick to respectable Islamic attire that covers the body except for the face and palms, which is not transparent. (Surat An-Nuur 31).

(... and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards Allah, that ye may attain Bliss)


A number of companions of the prophet had stated that the ornaments mentioned in the verse refers to the face and the palms.

Allah Almighty explained why women should dress discreetly: "Surat Al-A7zaab:59".

(O Prophet! tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad): that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.)


In other words this attire differentiates between the serious decent woman from the playful careless one. Hence, nobody would harm the decent woman because her attire and her behavior will force all those who see her to treat her with respect.

3. Abiding by Muslim behavior, especially when women deal with men.

a) In talking: women should not talk seductively (Al-A7zaab 32) (O Consorts of the Prophet! ye are not like any of the (other) women: if ye do fear (Allah), be not too complaisant of speech, lest one in whose heart is a disease should be moved with desire: but speak ye a speech (that is) just.

b) In walking: (An-Nuur: 31) God Almighty said: (and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments.) Muslim women should be as described here: (Al-Qasas: 25) (Afterwards one of the (damsels) came (back) to him, walking bashfully. She said: "My father invites thee that he may reward thee for having watered (our flocks) for us." So when he came to him and narrated the story, he said: "Fear thou not: (well) hast thou escaped from unjust people.")

c) In movement: she should not bend and twist like the ones mentioned in the Noble Hadith as ((the bending benders)). She should not like the women of the jahilliya period who were over adorned.

d) Women have to avoid all what can be seductive of perfume or make up that ought to be used at home, not on the streets nor when meeting with men.

e) There should be caution in having a man sit alone with a woman without a 'mi7rim'. The A7aadiith Ash-Shariifah forbade this and said: "The third is the devil". Fire and firewood should not come together. Women, should not be alone with a man, especially with male relatives of the husband. A 7adiith went: ("Do not enter on a woman". They said: "God's messenger. What about the relatives of the husband?" He said: "The relatives of the husband are death.") That is, the cause of destruction because a man may sit for long and there is danger in this.

f) The meeting should be limited to what the needs dictate and what the joint work necessitates without the exaggeration that could lead the woman to ignore her duties or make her susceptible to people's evil talk or keeps her from the holy role of taking care of the house and bringing up generations.


http://www.themodernreligion.com/wom...-qaradawi.html
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Scimitar
03-17-2012, 08:17 PM
So you can't answer the question then? man this was a waste of time...

Scimi
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TrueStranger
03-17-2012, 08:20 PM
By (the Token of) Time (through the ages),
Verily Man is in loss,.....
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Scimitar
03-17-2012, 08:22 PM
:) Out of context, once again.

Scimi
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CosmicPathos
03-17-2012, 08:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
She was not just working shoulder to shoulder with men, she was assisting them in one of the most dangerous place for women, the battle field.

Muslim narrated on the authority of Anas: "Aisha and Om Salim had their sleeves up one day and they were carrying water flasks on their backs that they then gave people to drink. Then, they went back and filled them".

The Bro-romance between you to is amazing. ;D I Kidding. Don't cry to the mods.


We already know the obesity levels in America. Man-Boobs are everywhere.
without the niqab on? and also for which she repented?

btw i didnt know the word "boob" was decent enough to be part of an islamic forum's lingo. I'd rather imagine ppl use breast or something, far more decent word.
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Scimitar
03-17-2012, 08:25 PM
Clever.
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~Zaria~
03-17-2012, 08:26 PM
Wa-alaikumsalam sister,


With regards to this matter at hand, please refer to my initial post on page 10 of this thread.

It is not up to us to try and rationalise such matters in fiqh ourselves.
Try as we may - these conversations are meaningless, as we simply do not possess the type of knowledge to produce our own verdicts.

At the end of the day, we need to ask ourselves - why is it so difficult to find ACCEPTANCE in such matters?

Why do we try to find ways and means to justify our own points of view?

Are we not happy with that which has been decreed for us by Allah Taa'la and our Nabi (sallalhu alaihi wasalam) - all for our OWN benefit......in this instance, for the benefit of the WOMEN of this ummah?

If we are, then where lies our differences?


:wa:
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CosmicPathos
03-17-2012, 08:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
There should be rules which prevent men and women from interacting inappropriate in the working Place and even the Non-Muslims have this policies and implement them better than any Muslim nation would.
huh, by permitting one of the most educated section of population i.e. physicians, to dress in knee-lenght skirts to show toned and tanned curvy hypertrophic calves? Nice policies.
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Scimitar
03-17-2012, 08:29 PM
You are making me giggle, stop it! ;D

Scimi
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nfnmcmd
03-17-2012, 08:36 PM
Women at home? Yes, a good thing
format_quote Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
Salaam,

Some scholars support female Muslim judges.


Asalaamualaikum

I am a new Shahada but I wish to respond to your opinions. I am not a young woman, so I have seen many changes in womens roles over the years. The family has fallen apart since women began working outside of the home. True, in some instances, it is necessary financially. I have always believed that women should take care of the home. Men still are the main support for the family in most homes. Working is stressful. If that man has a good home to come to he will be more prepared to face the challenges at work and be successful. Children need their mother to teach and care for them. Children raised by the school system and daycares lose their way. They do not have the values of their family instilled in them.

I have taken care of myself most of my life. I am not a woman who doesnt know who she is. I served in the military when I was young and have worked for many years. When I am married I stay home and support my husband. I take pleasure in seeing my husband happy, rested and ready to face the world of work the next day. I look forward to being married as a Muslima. To serve my husband is to serve Allah.


I don't have a problem with Muslim women working in general but I want to marry a Muslim women that does not want to work. I need someone who can maintain the house and help me out with my work (if she wants), like bookkeeping, drafting wills and general administrative work. Helping me out with my work would be very helpful but that's her choice.

I'm not sure why so many Muslim women are eager to work now. Are they trying to prove something? Is it that they really enjoy working? Or is sitting at home and doing all the washing/cooking/cleaning boring?
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جوري
03-17-2012, 08:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ~Zaria~
Are we not happy with that which has been decreed for us by Allah Taa'la and our Nabi (sallalhu alaihi wasalam) - all for our OWN benefit......in this instance, for the benefit of the WOMEN of this ummah?
Promoting lack of education, sticking your hands out to welfare, being obsequious isn't to the benefit of the ummah. It is funny enough the ones promoting hermitage are the same ones who turn their backs on a woman with seven kids and a disabled husband referencing her to the charity box in a mosque..

Sob7an Allah... I don't want to bring this into this topic but I noticed that you have linked a video and educational one and very beneficial on another thread masha'Allah but I thought all forms of photography were haram?


The Prophet said: 'Make things easy (for people) and do not make them difficult, and cheer people up and do not drive them away.' (Sahîh Bukhârî, Sahîh Muslim)

Moderation
The Prophet said: 'The religion (of Islam) is easy. No one ever made it difficult without it becoming too much for him. So avoid extremes and strike a balance, do the best you can and be cheerful, and seek Allah's help (through prayer) in the morning, and evening, and part of the night.' (Sahîh Bukhârî)

http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/th..._ansar_al__adl
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Scimitar
03-17-2012, 08:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by nfnmcmd
Women at home? Yes, a good thing
Masha-Allah, A new revert of just 5 months has attained a higher understanding of the problems plaguing modern socieites...

Respect! Other Muslimahs can learn from this example. Kudos to you sis :)

Scimi
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CosmicPathos
03-17-2012, 08:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ßlµêßêll
Promoting lack of education, sticking your hands out to welfare, being obsequious isn't to the benefit of the ummah. It is funny enough the ones promoting hermitage are the same ones who turn their backs on a woman with seven kids and a disabled husband referencing her to the charity box in a mosque..
wsalam

i am sorry to say but sister this is a strawman. no one is restriction religious education for women. and no one is asking them to beg if their husband becomes disabled. rather islamic ruler should be providing to them certain benefits. it does not mean that to avoid begging they start doing haram i.e. working along with men. Certainly they can do many other jobs where they dont have to interfere with men? Work in all women centers? Work from home, make stuff and sell it?
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~Zaria~
03-17-2012, 09:02 PM
@ Sister Bluebell,


I have only quoted from respected scholars - both in this topic, as well as on the issue of photography (i.e. these are not my own opinions).
I am sorry if you do not agree with these.

Perhaps, read them again, and ask yourself why?

This is a question, that only my brothers and sisters can answer for themselves.


(With regards to the referred video - please be advised that no animations are present.
Also, please refer to the rulings on Islamic videos - this may be of benefit in understanding this matter in greater detail, insha Allah.)


Wa-alaikumsalam
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Scimitar
03-17-2012, 09:12 PM
Ok back on topic...

In Islam, the sexes are considered equal before God in the complementarian sense.[1] Allah says in verse 13 of chapter 49 in the Qu'ran: "O mankind! We have created you from a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Verily, the most honourable of you with Allâh is that (believer) who has At-Taqwa. Verily, Allâh is All-Knowing, All-Aware."[citation needed] At the same time, Islamic law and practice recognize differences between sexes, resulting in different rights and obligations.Qur'an instructs believers that they should not treat women as a commodity which can be inherited and used as liked. The context is that in the pre-Islamic era, the wives of a person could be transferred to his heirs like his wealth and animals.
In many Islamic societies, there is a division of roles creating a woman’s space in the private sphere of the home and a man’s in the public sphere.[2] In Islam, a woman's primary responsibility is usually interpreted as fulfilling her role as a wife and mother,[3] whereas a man’s role is to work and be able to financially support his wife and family.[2] However neither the Qu'ran nor the Hadith specifically mention gender roles for women.[4][5][6]
Under the Qur'an, "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient..."[7] According to Sayyid Qutb as outlined by John Esposito, however, this passage does not imply the "squashing (of) the woman's personalty or her civic rights;rather it is an obligation to direct and protect the family." According to Qutb's analysis, the Quran "gives the man the right of 'guardianship' or 'superiority' over the family structure in order to prevent dissension and friction between the spouses. The equity of this system lies in the fact that God both favoured the man with the necessary qualities and skills for the 'guardianship' and also charged him with the duty to provide for the structure's upkeep."[8]


Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_roles_in_Islam

Scimi
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Rhubarb Tart
03-17-2012, 09:17 PM
Zara why you studying medicine when you are going to quit it once you get married…

Why you wasting your money (or shall I say your parents money) studying for a professional, you will do for short term.

Btw why is other respected scholar agreed with my views on this? And why hasn’t scholars of the past punished women that did work outside medicine?

best regards,
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Rhubarb Tart
03-17-2012, 09:17 PM
same old members promoting same old stuff. urgh...
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Scimitar
03-17-2012, 09:20 PM
Look who is talking... and not onlyhave you posted the same old dribble, but you are necro posting... ever heard of the "EDIT POST" button?

Scimi
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Rhubarb Tart
03-17-2012, 09:21 PM
^^ oh shut it, and attend to your wife, she hasnt finished kissing your toes yet ^o)
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CosmicPathos
03-17-2012, 09:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
Zara why you studying medicine when you are going to quit it once you get married…

Why you wasting your money (or shall I say your parents money) studying for a professional, you will do for short term.

Btw why is other respected scholar agreed with my views on this? And why hasn’t scholars of the past punished women that did work outside medicine?

best regards,
maybe she wants to know about human body? what a judgmental piece of crap you are?

and who said sr zaria cant take care of female patients?!
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CosmicPathos
03-17-2012, 09:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
^^ oh shut it, and attend to your wife, she hasnt finished kissing your toes yet ^o)
i am sure scimi and his wife will have a happy life together inshAllah, unlike yours which ended in divorce. We can sort of see why.
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GuestFellow
03-17-2012, 09:26 PM
Salaam,


format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
yea, dont touch my nerves, I bite quite hard with ensuing permanent damage.
Your scary.

if you had noticed my question mark? ah the irony that my enemy "likes" your comment against me.
I like using the like function too.

format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar


...and the men? get humble already. Arguing with a woman does not make you more of a man.

Thread question answered. Close thread... it's getting ugly.

Scimi
No need to close this thread. What is wrong with arguing with a woman? Is that not what you have been doing in this topic? :p:

What does it mean to be a man? I can answer that one, but I think I will get banned for saying so. O_o

format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
The role of every man is to be husband and a father...
just as it is for ever woman to be a mother and a wife. Man should go out and ear the bread, and woman should raise the family - it's called a partnership.
Not everyone can get married.

I don 't understand why women want to work? I mean, why?

It's a mans world - do you really want to be the subject of male scrutiny in a male dominated environment? Or is that women like to complain and there's nothing better to complain about than your boss' advancements towards you, or your fellow male colleagues talking you down? I don't get it. No wait - it's deadly simple - gossip. That must be it...

I'm pleased I have found a woman - a real woman, one who knows her role in Islam. And would love to fulfil it. She wants nothing more than to stay at home and raise children.
It is hard to refute rhetoric and bring some reality to this discussion.

I suppose women want to work because to earn money/do something that they enjoy/not get bored/help others. We need women in the workforce to provide services to other women and even men in some cases.

What do you mean this is a man's world? Allah owns this world.

What do you mean a real women? A women is a living being with different organs to a man. Simple as that.

Overall, what your advocating is impracticable. Not everyone is going to get married, have 35 children, hold hands, skip on the yellow brick road to La La Land and befriend a scarecrow, a tin man and a lion, which happens to talk, on the way.

format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
Urgh you still don't get it and post links that has been posted in this over and over again. That statement still goes married, I am talking about ALL women.

I dont want type she has to be wifey and mother post!

I give up! Btw I don't have to be married, been there and done it!

Best regard,
Getting married is like so 12 centuries ago. :P: Kidding.

format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar

Look missy,
This reminds when Hugo Chavez said to Condoleeza Rice, "little girl"...

get married again...
Easier to be said than done. It's her choice. None of your business.

Where? you on drugs or something?
That's rude.

format_quote Originally Posted by ßlµêßêll
:sl:
akhi,

you speak of some idyllic utopia which unfortunately has little to do with the real world..
I agree.

Most Muslim women I know have to work for the following reason and let me list those I know
1- her husband is disabled and she has seven kids unfortunately no degree beyond high school so she has to do menial work so for starters I stress education by the way they're both converts masha'Allah
2- one Pakistani lady her husband left her and with years of abuse doesn't even pay alimony to her kids, she worked as a pharmacist tech for pennies, put three of them through college masha'Allah
3- One polish convert her husband left her after obtaining his residency status for a Muslim woman from his own country, surprisingly wal7mdlillah she remained steadfast on Islam despite the obvious mal intent
4- widows my aunt was one
5- those who have never married, I have a cousin whose both parents died and her brother lives abroad and her younger sister is with three kids and lives away..
6- one whose father died, she actually is well educated but took a crappy job to pay the bills because her husband who could never hold down a job, came to the U.S on some 'green card' lottery was cheating on her while she was seven month pregnant and often time kicking her in the stomach so she'd abort and he'd not have to support some kids
7- many who are simply joining in the paycheck and I grew up in that kind of a household where both parents had to work to make ends meet.. so I find it somewhat unfortunate to create the scenario you've created above.. it is somewhat insulting..
[/QUOTE]

Very interesting.





format_quote Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif
You know for once I'd really like to see you take from my threads and posts what I'm actually trying to say as opposed to making assumptions and throwing accusations without even reading what I'm saying! Speaking in context would be a great way to start off in the right direction when replying.
You should make your posts clearer, if you feel your misunderstood. Members misunderstood my posts too, so I try to communicate my posts clearly, without using flowery language and complex vocabulary/phrases like indoctrination, conveyancing and fee simple absolute in possession. Not that I'm saying your posts are not clear, but something for you to ponder.

format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
wsalam

i am sorry to say but sister this is a strawman. no one is restriction religious education for women. and no one is asking them to beg if their husband becomes disabled. rather islamic ruler should be providing to them certain benefits. it does not mean that to avoid begging they start doing haram i.e. working along with men. Certainly they can do many other jobs where they dont have to interfere with men? Work in all women centers? Work from home, make stuff and sell it?
:sl:

It sounds impracticable, especially in the business, legal and finance world. As long as everyone is covered up and mix when it is necessary, then it's fine. Some form of eduction can only be acquired at work. For example, learning about legal issues and practicing law are so different. The theory is absolute nonsense and it is by working you truly learn.

Besides, not everyone wants to rely on others. Some want to be independent. I hated jobseekers allowance and left. I rather be homeless.
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Ramadan90
03-17-2012, 09:27 PM
:sl:

I think this discussion goes way too far when people are using harsch words at each other. It is possible to discuss in a good manner and still disagree.
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Rhubarb Tart
03-17-2012, 09:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
i am sure scimi and his wife will have a happy life together inshAllah, unlike yours which ended in divorce. We can sort of see why.
lmao..

I am sure my medical reports will demonstrate why it ended. So keep you ugly mouth shut. thank you
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Aprender
03-17-2012, 09:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
am sure my medical reports will demonstrate why it ended. So keep you ugly mouth shut. thank you
:( It is so unfortunate to hear of this happening...May Allah grant you strength and fill your heart with His continuous love and remembrance. Ameen.
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Scimitar
03-17-2012, 09:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Allah<3
I think this discussion goes way too far when people are using harsch words at each other. It is possible to discuss in a good manner and still disagree with each other.
format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
I am sure my medical reports will demonstrate why it ended. So keep you ugly mouth shut. thank you
lol facepalm worthy... make a habit why don't you.

Scimi
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Aprender
03-17-2012, 09:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
what a judgmental piece of crap you are?
Brother, this is no way to talk to a Muslim woman. Even if you disagree with what she is saying to you. We don't know her situation.
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Ramadan90
03-17-2012, 09:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
i am sure scimi and his wife will have a happy life together inshAllah, unlike yours which ended in divorce. We can sort of see why.
Instead of wishing her upon those kind of things I think you should wish her a happy life. It is sad to see a muslim brother behaving this way.
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Rhubarb Tart
03-17-2012, 09:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
maybe she wants to know about human body? what a judgmental piece of crap you are?

and who said sr zaria cant take care of female patients?!
lol sure, she studying in a mixed environment and I seriously doubt people can choose what gender they want to work in. She is the one that is judgemental! Funny how she is doing profession that she consider to be okay *roll eyes*

and who are you to talk? being a racist and all..
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CosmicPathos
03-17-2012, 09:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
business, legal and finance world.
who made this "world?" is it obligatory upon us to play by the rules kaafirs have devised for world economy?
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Scimitar
03-17-2012, 09:38 PM
*grabs popcorn*

*orders pizza*
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CosmicPathos
03-17-2012, 09:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aprender
Brother, this is no way to talk to a Muslim woman. Even if you disagree with what she is saying to you. We don't know her situation.
she should have demanded respect by being respectful to other members such as a scimi and zaria then i'd ahve reciprocated.
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CosmicPathos
03-17-2012, 09:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Allah<3
Instead of wishing her upon those kind of things I think you should wish her a happy life. It is sad to see a muslim brother behaving this way.
i wished happy life to scimi.
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nfnmcmd
03-17-2012, 09:42 PM
I was concerned about my role as a woman in Islam before my Shahada. I read all I could find on this subject. I was married for a long time as a christian. I also was married for a very short time as a Muslima. My rights in Islam protected me from a bad situation. I had no protection in the christian world. People who professed to be good christians offered me no help. The Masjid I where I lived when I was married gave me the help and support I needed. Real truth
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CosmicPathos
03-17-2012, 09:44 PM
feminazis, have a nice weekend gassing chaivinist males.

I am off for a nice weekend and defense against feminazis!
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Ramadan90
03-17-2012, 09:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
i wished happy life to scimi.
:sl:

But not your sister in Islam?

I have no time for game, I am sorry. I hope I see the better side of you next time.
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جوري
03-17-2012, 09:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
wsalam

i am sorry to say but sister this is a strawman. no one is restriction religious education for women. and no one is asking them to beg if their husband becomes disabled. rather islamic ruler should be providing to them certain benefits. it does not mean that to avoid begging they start doing haram i.e. working along with men. Certainly they can do many other jobs where they dont have to interfere with men? Work in all women centers? Work from home, make stuff and sell it?
yeah ok.. you tell that to the folks in Iraq
Iraqi women: Prostituting ourselves to feed our children

http://articles.cnn.com/2007-08-15/world/iraq.prostitution_1_iraqi-women-prostitution-yanar-mohammed?_s=PM:WORLD

Hopefully an 'Islamic leader' can rise to the occasion and not take them into mass graves as a solution!





format_quote Originally Posted by ~Zaria~
@ Sister Bluebell,


I have only quoted from respected scholars - both in this topic, as well as on the issue of photography (i.e. these are not my own opinions).
I am sorry if you do not agree with these.

Perhaps, read them again, and ask yourself why?

This is a question, that only my brothers and sisters can answer for themselves.


(With regards to the referred video - please be advised that no animations are present.
Also, please refer to the rulings on Islamic videos - this may be of benefit in understanding this matter in greater detail, insha Allah.)


Wa-alaikumsalam
:sl: ukhty,

Scholars make mistakes, they make haram things that neither prophet nor the rightly guided khalifs did nor recommended.
We had women starting their own business and I have given the example of hind, and out on the battle field along with khalid ibn ilwaleed like khwala bint al'azwar seeking to free her brother dirarrar, the prophet used to take his wife to learn to read and write, Saida Aisha gave alot of narrations of hadith and taught grown men. Early Islamic society wasn't a segregated one, and a woman that can be easily referred to as a slave woman challenged Umar ibn ilkkhtab in a mosque that didn't have a woman section and man section through a one eyed veil.

People who work in the work mill don't have time to look each other up and down least of which in this crappy country where the bottom line is money and hurls of insults.. One often has to make all sorts of du3a in the morning just to get through the day..
I have looked at what you presented and it is often written with such absolution then subsequent posts make allowances after we discuss the down right impossibility of sticking with what is presented .. Adeen yousr fla to3asiroo..

:w:
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Rhubarb Tart
03-17-2012, 09:47 PM
I don’t show and will show respect to members that actively advocate looking down upon those that DON’T take one the typical role. When they are trying to make something that is halal into haram and trying to make out that these women worse things on earth.

So I will ask this question once again, when didn’t scholars of the past PUNISH women that did jobs outside of medicine and teaching?

best regards,
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CosmicPathos
03-17-2012, 09:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ßlµêßêll
yeah ok.. you tell that to the folks in Iraq
Iraqi women: Prostituting ourselves to feed our children

http://articles.cnn.com/2007-08-15/w...ed?_s=PM:WORLD

Hopefully an 'Islamic leader' can rise to the occasion and not take them into mass graves as a solution!







:sl: ukhty,

Scholars make mistakes, they make haram things that neither prophet nor the rightly guided khalifs did nor recommended.
We had women starting their own business and I have given the example of hind, and out on the battle field along with khalid ibn ilwaleed like khwala bint al'azwar seeking to free her brother dirarrar, the prophet used to take his wife to learn to read and write, Saida Aisha gave alot of narrations of hadith and taught grown men. Early Islamic society wasn't a segregated one, and a woman that can be easily referred to as a slave woman challenged Umar ibn ilkkhtab in a mosque that didn't have a woman section and man section through a one eyed veil.

People who work in the work mill don't have time to look each other up and down least of which in this crappy country where the bottom line is money and hurls of insults.. One often has to make all sorts of du3a in the morning just to get through the day..
I have looked at what you presented and it is often written with such absolution then subsequent posts make allowances after we discuss the down right impossibility of sticking with what is presented .. Adeen yousr fla to3asiroo..

:w:
w salam,

as sad as it is, they willfully decided to resort to prostitution right? at the very least their other option was to die from hunger. is not that more worthy than prostituting it out? what if they die now from syphillis? so why not rather die with dignity?

again, i feel their pain, and i wish they didnt have to resort to that, but they had other options to pursue. where there is a will there is a way.

salam.
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GuestFellow
03-17-2012, 09:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
who made this "world?" is it obligatory upon us to play by the rules kaafirs have devised for world economy?
Salaam,

Well we have no choice. The world operates on credit. I'm not sure how we supposed to solve this issue. To give an example, some women are experts on particular areas like childcare.

Whilst working at a law firm, I had to speak to a women, an expert on child psychology, about cross examining children in court. There was no man available in my city who could have given such in-depth advice. She was available and had the expertise. So we had to ask her to assist our firm in resolving a domestic violence case.

Sometimes, people mix and as long as we lower our gaze, we'll be fine.
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Rhubarb Tart
03-17-2012, 09:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
she should have demanded respect by being respectful to other members such as a scimi and zaria then i'd ahve reciprocated.
And please don’t go on about respect since you have racist and disturbing views. Funny you suck on jackstraw to justify those views too.
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جوري
03-17-2012, 09:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
w salam,

as sad as it is, they willfully decided to resort to prostitution right? at the very least their other option was to die from hunger. is not that more worthy than prostituting it out?

again, i feel their pain, and i wish they didnt have to resort to that, but they had other options to pursue. where there is a will there is a way.

salam.
I welcome you to offer them a solution because so far the only ones who are 'helping' them financially are the ones who killed their husbands and invaded their country. Where is the ummah? Oh I forget, they wear extravagant abayas and invite Tom cruze to Burj khalifah for millions...

:w:
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CosmicPathos
03-17-2012, 09:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Allah<3
:sl:

But not your sister in Islam?

I have no time for game, I am sorry. I hope I see the better side of you next time.
not to a "sister" who comes here and tells us that our orthodox version of Islam is chauvinistic, and that scholars have had it wrong for the last 1300 years, and she is here to teach us Islam now ....

and frankly, what you think of me is the least of my concerns, dear brother.

salam.
Reply

CosmicPathos
03-17-2012, 09:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ßlµêßêll

I welcome you to offer them a solution because so far the only ones who are 'helping' them financially are the ones who killed their husbands and invaded their country. Where is the ummah? Oh I forget, they wear extravagant abayas and invite Tom cruze to Burj khalifah for millions...

:w:
yup, I concur.

:( really.

salam
Reply

Scimitar
03-17-2012, 09:57 PM
My fiance should have internet back... in a few hours insha-Allah

Man this is gonna be pretty interesting. Be warned people.

Scimi
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Rhubarb Tart
03-17-2012, 09:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
not to a "sister" who comes here and tells us that our orthodox version of Islam is chauvinistic, and that scholars have had it wrong for the last 1300 years, and she is here to teach us Islam now ....

and frankly, what you think of me is the least of my concerns, dear brother.

salam.
How comes there isn’t any record of scholars punishing women that worked outside the health and Social care sector and teaching?

plus you are the one to talk! Considering your views on interracial marriage for so called future daughter and nationalism (which you display often) and again sucking on jackstraw to against the EVERY scholars you speak of. funny man
Reply

Scimitar
03-17-2012, 09:58 PM
You sound like a parrot, can you change the same old tired dribble? and bring a fresh approach? And save some face?

Scimi
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Rhubarb Tart
03-17-2012, 09:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
You sound like a parrot, can you change the same old tired dribble? and bring a fresh approach? And save some face?

Scimi
Funny how you have contact with someone who is not your wife yet? Hypocrite much?

Tag teaming with a racist, oh dear :hmm:
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CosmicPathos
03-17-2012, 10:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
How comes there isn’t any record of scholars punishing women that worked outside the health and Social care sector and teaching?

plus you are the one to talk! Considering your views on interracial marriage for so called future daughter and nationalism (which you display often) and again sucking on jackstraw to against the EVERY scholars you speak of. funny man
my "nationalism" is as strong as Prophet's for his tribe and lineage. Prophet pbuh gave his daughter Fatima Ali (ra), a pious man from same tribe. I am sure there were hundreds of ppl willing to marry Prophet's daughter yet he chose someone pious from his tribe, whom he knew well, who was one of the first youngsters to accept Islam. I am saying I'd do precisely the same. No need to seek out pious males outside when you have in your family.

Good day.
Reply

جوري
03-17-2012, 10:06 PM
la 7wala wla qiwta illa billah.. Enough of this already..ENOUGH!
Prophet Muhammad

.W said, "If one of you becomes angry while standing he should sit down. If the anger leaves him, well and good; otherwise he should lie down" (Al-Tirmidhi Hadith 5114)

but I guess 15 visitors is good for rating? ;D
Reply

Scimitar
03-17-2012, 10:06 PM
The girl has no knowledge of these things and has quoted ayahs out of context bro CosmicPathos, she also uses derogatory language frequently and is clearly on the back foot.

Don't give her the time bro, let her stew.

Scimi
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Rhubarb Tart
03-17-2012, 10:07 PM
Is there any records of him rejecting pious men from other tribes NOT your assumptions :skeleton: ? Till then dont use him to justify your racist views and nationalist attitude. okay?





Good day
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Rhubarb Tart
03-17-2012, 10:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
The girl has no knowledge of these things and has quoted ayahs out of context bro CosmicPathos, she also uses derogatory language frequently and is clearly on the back foot.

Don't give her the time bro, let her stew.

Scimi
subhanallah, you dont know his record! lol @ you support his racist attitude!
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Rhubarb Tart
03-17-2012, 10:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ßlµêßêll
la 7wala wla qiwta illa billah.. Enough of this already..ENOUGH!
Prophet Muhammad

.W said, "If one of you becomes angry while standing he should sit down. If the anger leaves him, well and good; otherwise he should lie down" (Al-Tirmidhi Hadith 5114)

but I guess 15 visitors is good for rating? ;D
I was hoping this thread was closed by now tbh.
Reply

GuestFellow
03-17-2012, 10:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
Is there any records of him rejecting pious men from other tribes NOT your assumptions :skeleton: ? Till then dont use him to justify your racist views and nationalist attitude. okay?

Good day
Salaam,

Nationalism, tribalism and regionalism are based on one thing. Being proud of where you come from. This is silly since no one can control where we come from.

Besides, I see brother Hamza. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH RUN FOR YOUR LIFE, HE IS GONNA DELETE US! *runs and hides*
Reply

CosmicPathos
03-17-2012, 10:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
Is there any records of him rejecting pious men from other tribes NOT your assumptions :skeleton: ? Till then dont use him to justify your racist views and nationalist attitude. okay?
that doesnt matter. the fact he chose Ali (ra), someone from his tribe, over others says a lot.

this was my last msg to you.





Good day
Reply

Scimitar
03-17-2012, 10:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
I was hoping this thread was closed by now tbh.
I bet you were... you should have tried saying Insha-Allah

Scimi
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Ghazalah
03-17-2012, 10:14 PM
Abu Umamah Al-Bahili (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said,

"I guarantee a house in Jannah for one who gives up arguing, even if he is in the right; and I guarantee a home in the middle of Jannah for one who abandons lying even for the sake of fun; and I guarantee a house in the highest part of Jannahfor one who has good manners.''

[Abu Dawud]

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GuestFellow
03-17-2012, 10:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
subhanallah, you dont know his record! lol @ you support his racist attitude!
Salaam,

From my experience, most Pakistanis are racist. They wouldn't want their daughter to marry a Black or White Muslim man. However, they are fine to see their sons get married to a White Muslim lady. I don't think the Pakistanis that I know are intentionally racist, it is really bizarre.

Oh no, double standards!
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Ramadan90
03-17-2012, 10:14 PM
Where are the moderators when you need them?
Reply

TrueStranger
03-17-2012, 10:15 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos;1504595 No need to seek out pious males outside when you have [B
in your family.[/B]

Good day.
Good luck with that. :statisfie
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GuestFellow
03-17-2012, 10:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
that doesnt matter.
Salaam,

Why not?






Good day[/QUOTE]
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CosmicPathos
03-17-2012, 10:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
Salaam,

From my experience, most Pakistanis are racist. They wouldn't want their daughter to marry a Black or White Muslim man. However, they are fine to see their sons get married to a White Muslim lady. I don't think the Pakistanis that I know are intentionally racist, it is really bizarre.

Oh no, double standards!
haha, you are guilty of being the same what you accuse others of. Yup, no one wants their daughter to go and suffer at the hands of unknown cultures, especially white cultures where promiscuity is commonly accepted, and rightly so. I aint sending my daughter into promiscuous cultures and those with similar values! And I'd ask you when you have daughters!
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Rhubarb Tart
03-17-2012, 10:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
I bet you were... you should have tried saying Insha-Allah

Scimi
where is your future wife?

didnt answer the question on why you still in contact with someone who is not your wife.

:)
Reply

Jedi_Mindset
03-17-2012, 10:19 PM
Sweet106- Don't let your emotions take over, nor listen to wiswas of shaytaan also get rid of the feminist propaganda out of your head.

Both men and women are equal in islam, but have different roles to accomplish. When a couple is married, the husband needs to lead and his wife to follow. We men are made to lead, its in our nature. Women need to stay at home, raising up the kids, teaching them properly, while the husband takes care of the income. Women can have their jobs yes, but it can be in their homes or very nearby. Also they need to plan their schedule good how much they work, since she needs to have alot time to raise the children. Women only can go outside with Mahram and only that. Ofcourse there are exceptions. but i'm talking about the normal situation, if you understand me. Fitnah these days is over the top, and i really suggest women to pray for a good husband and stay home. A women's home is her masjid, its her place. Ofcourse she can be outside but with family or husband. Also she can teach her knowledge to other people inside home. This might be sound difficult but it isn't. your thoughts make it harder then it is.

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: The Prophet said: "I was shown the Hell-fire and that the majority of its dwellers werewomen who were ungrateful." It was asked, "Do they disbelieve in Allah?" (or are they ungrateful to Allah?) He replied, "They are ungrateful to their husbands and are ungrateful for the favors and the good (charitable deeds) done to them. If you have always been good (benevolent) to one of them and then she sees something in you (not of her liking), she will say, 'I have never received any good from you." (Book #2, Hadith #28)
Reply

Scimitar
03-17-2012, 10:19 PM
this thread will come back ontopic when cosmicintuition finally comes online... and makes the epic post to end all posts... that is, if the mods havent closed it by then... (don;t close it)

Scimi
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GuestFellow
03-17-2012, 10:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
haha, you are guilty of being the same what you accuse others of. Yup, no one wants their daughter to go and suffer at the hands of unknown cultures, especially white cultures where promiscuity is commonly accepted, and rightly so. I aint sending my daughter into promiscuous cultures and those with similar values! And I'd ask you when you have daughters!
Salaam,

Are you saying all white people are promiscuous? What about white Muslims that have converted? If I had a daughter, she would marry a practicing Muslim man. If that Muslim man was white, that would be irrelevant. As long as he prays 5 times a day, fasts and is polite, that is fine.

I have a male relative who married a white Muslim women. They get along very well.

Sorry, you sound racist to me.
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Rhubarb Tart
03-17-2012, 10:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
that doesnt matter. the fact he chose Ali (ra), someone from his tribe, over others says a lot.

this was my last msg to you.







Good day
I ask once again, did he REJECT others that were not from his tribe! Did he place level of emphasise on his tribe like you?

Remember last when you were sooo upset that you said you no longer going to reply to me? well you did!
Reply

CosmicPathos
03-17-2012, 10:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
Salaam,

Are you saying all white people are promiscuous? What about white Muslims that have converted? If I had a daughter, she would marry a practicing Muslim man. If that Muslim man was white, that would be irrelevant. As long as he prays 5 times a day, fasts and is polite, that is fine.

I have a male relative who married a white Muslim women. They get along very well.

Sorry, you sound racist to me.
I didnt say white ppl. I said white cultures. Yes, all cultures of white people are promiscuous on this earth. be it USA, Scandinavia or Australia. You find exceptions at individual levels.


almost all white females (from different cultures! from French to Italian to Irish) in my class dress with toned and tanned calves showing. Show me a white female from white culture in my class who dresses conservatively taking care of hayaa and modesty, I'd accept that I was wrong.
Reply

Scimitar
03-17-2012, 10:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
where is your future wife?

didnt answer the question on why you still in contact with someone who is not your wife.

:)
:) does it bug you? What do you know of our situation? Are you jealous? because you sure do sound it... I pray Allah sends you a husband that will be of benefit to your life. How much benefit you will be to him?... well, Insha-Allah is all I can say.

As for CosmicIntuition? When she comes online - you're gonna wish you'd never started this thread... this is why I am not saying much. I am going to give you the opportunity to witness what a true partnership should be like. Something you may not have experienced in your own life. I feel sorry for you. May Allah put kindness and mercy in your heart.

Scimi
Reply

Rhubarb Tart
03-17-2012, 10:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Jedi_Mindset
Sweet106- Don't let your emotions take over, nor listen to wiswas of shaytaan also get rid of the feminist propaganda out of your head.
shut up, simple!

lol @ feminist propaganda
Reply

nfnmcmd
03-17-2012, 10:25 PM
Asalaamualaikum Brother

Why would you label all whites as the same? I am aware now of a Pakistan Brother who is married but also has sex with Muslima in same Masjid. This sister is not white.
Reply

GuestFellow
03-17-2012, 10:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
I didnt say white ppl. I said white cultures. Yes, all cultures of white people are promiscuous on this earth. be it USA, Scandinavia or Australia. You find exceptions at individual levels.
Salaam,

It sounds like broad generalisation. Where's your evidence?
Reply

Rhubarb Tart
03-17-2012, 10:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
:) does it bug you? What do you know of our situation? Are you jealous? because you sure do sound it... I pray Allah sends you a husband that will be of benefit to your life. How much benefit you will be to him?... well, Insha-Allah is all I can say.

As for CosmicIntuition? When she comes online - you're gonna wish you'd never started this thread... this is why I am not saying much. I am going to give you the opportunity to witness what a true partnership should be like. Something you may not have experienced in your own life. I feel sorry for you. May Allah put kindness and mercy in your heart.

Scimi
I am shaking in my boots!
Reply

Scimitar
03-17-2012, 10:28 PM
From my dua? LOL, ok :)

you really hate men that much?

Scimi
Reply

Muezzin
03-17-2012, 10:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
I was hoping this thread was closed by now tbh.
Given that the whole thing has veered wildly off-topic, and you as the thread starter feel the thread should be closed, I'm going to lock this thread. If you want it re-opened after a cleanup, PM myself or one of the other moderators for this section.
Reply

Ghazalah
03-17-2012, 10:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ghazalah
Abu Umamah Al-Bahili (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said,

"I guarantee a house in Jannah for one who gives up arguing, even if he is in the right; and I guarantee a home in the middle of Jannah for one who abandons lying even for the sake of fun; and I guarantee a house in the highest part of Jannahfor one who has good manners.''

[Abu Dawud]
^Bump.

This arguing is benefiting nobody.

*Goes to search for Mods*
Reply

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