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TrueStranger
03-18-2012, 03:10 AM
“I wish my husband dies,” a Caucasian sister quietly expresses her deep desire, which she thinks will end her miserable marital situation. She is married to a Moroccan man and has been abused throughout her married life.

Her abusive relationship has brought her to the point of wishing for her husband's death, but she is unwilling to get out of the marriage for only one reason: financial instability. Her husband is the breadwinner and she left her studies to convert and marry him. If she leaves the marriage, she will not have anyone to support her or her children.

Another sister is in a worse situation; her husband not only verbally abuses her, but also suffers a sexual addiction. She also remains in her marriage because she is unable to financially support herself and her children. She says if anyone from her family could buy her an accommodation she would leave her husband the same day.

When it comes to domestic violence or abusive relationships, the issues of shame and dishonor have often been addressed. However, there are other reasons why women endure:

Financial Support

Many Muslim women endure domestic violence because they do not have the financial means to support themselves or their children. In most cases, husbands are the sole breadwinner and the wife becomes highly dependent on him for financial support. She would rather take the abuse than try to become financially independent.

Lack of Academic Education

Even in current times, many parents continue to put more emphasis on their sons' education and undermine that of their daughters. As soon as a good suitor approaches, parents marry their daughters off without taking any future commitments to the completion of her education.

Complications in Remarrying

It is a well-known fact that divorced Muslim women have a hard time remarrying, especially if they have children. The fear of living a life without a husband seems more difficult than having one who is abusive.

Self-Image

Sometimes women with education and financial stability tolerate domestic violence just to maintain the image of being in a stable relationship. In their minds, an unsuccessful marriage is conceived as a failure on their part. Their ego stops them from being known as the “victims” of domestic violence.

For the Children's Sake

At other times women drag along their relationship just so that their children don't have to grow up in broken homes. They believe a family with a mother and father is better than one with a single parent.

Should Women Endure?

No matter what the reason may be, there is no excuse for enduring injustice. Unfortunately, in many cultures, there is so much negativity associated with seeking help through a third party and/or pursuing a divorce, that many women willingly endure domestic violence rather than protect their rights.

1. Seek Help

First, let us realize that not every case of domestic violence has to end in divorce. True, there are cases that definitely require a divorce, but there are other cases that can be sorted out without one. One may never know until they seek professional help.

2. Your Marriage is not SOLELY your Responsibility

Do not be deceived into thinking that you are the one responsible for disclosing the “secrets” of your marriage by seeking help. You need help, your spouse needs help and your marriage needs help. If your spouse was sick, would you not go to the doctor to help explain his/her situation? Only selective people need to know what is happening in your marriage. Seek help though a professional and through close family members and friends whom you can trust.

3. Evil Effects on Children

You will not be putting your children though any “embarrassing” situation should you seek help though a third party. They will, in fact, appreciate any help you can get to resolve the issue, rather than growing up watching their mother being abused by their father.

In case the solution is a divorce, again it is better for the children to grow up in an outwardly broken home rather than growing up, emotionally traumatized, in an internally broken home, trying to keep it a secret.

Complications of Remarriage, Financial Instability, and the Muslim Community:

In cases where the solution is divorce from an abusive relationship, the quandaries of remarriage and financial support need answers. We are not living in the time of the ṣaḥābah, where divorced/widowed women had no difficulty in remarrying. It is not practical for women to live a single life. Even when offering polygamy as a solution, hardly any brothers are willing to marry a divorcee with children.

Neither are we living in 'Umar raḍyAllāhu 'anhu (may Allāh be pleased with him)'s time, who had set up an excellent support system for single women with no male family member to support them. Many sisters in the US do not work, and solely rely upon the husband for financial support.

Please do not misunderstand me. I am not suggesting that due to these challenges a destructive marriage needs to drag, rather I am encouraging the Muslim communities to think of solutions for these issues.

“He [Allāh] will make for him of his matter ease.”

While we find the practical solutions, let me remind my sisters and brothers who want to leave an abusive marriage to put their trust in Allāh as He instructed us.

“And whoever fears Allāh – He will make for him a way out And will provide for him from where he does not expect. And whoever relies upon Allāh – then He is sufficient for him.” (Al-Ṭalāq: 2-3)

It is interesting that Sūrat'l-Ṭalāq (divorce) is full of verses reminding us about putting tawakkul in Allāh and solely relying on Him for support. There are several reminders in this surah that Allāh will bring ease and Allāh will not overburden a soul, subhanAllāh.

Tie your Camel

When a family member was getting married, her husband-to-be, who is a very practicing brother māshā'Allāh, did not deem it necessary for his wife to complete her education. Though her parents wanted her to, they didn't want to miss the good proposal either. The suitor promised that he will provide his best for her as long as he lives, and in case anything was to happen to him, then his wife should put tawakkul in Allāh and make the best of her situation.

Alhamdullilah the need never arose and the parents didn't have to regret their decision. But, there are other cases where the husband turns out to be a very different person than what he had appeared initially. Daughters have to make the “best of their situation”.

I believe the necessity of educating our daughters (not to mention the importance of education itself) is vital, especially in our times. I am a proponent of early marriages, but I also believe that a higher education for our daughters is “tying your camel's rope”. Allāh knows best.

Parents will have to come up with ways to support both early marriage and education without one becoming a hindrance to the other.

May Allāhsubḥānahu wa ta'āla (glorified and exalted be He) protect Muslim families, bless their marriages with love and harmony, and protect our children and bless them with salih spouses, āmīn ya rabb.

http://muslimmatters.org/2012/03/12/...-women-endure/
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ardianto
03-18-2012, 03:23 PM
Assalamualaikum.

Culture plays important role in domestic violence cases. In my place, married women are still under protection from their families, from community leaders, and from ulama. If a husband abuse the wife, the wife can report it to her family, and her family will come to help her. Maybe just warn the husband, maybe register a divorce to sharia court, maybe report this violence to police. Even in some cases the wife brothers hit the husband, literally hit.

Not only the family, the community leader and ulama can intervene this. They call the husband and give him nasiha (advice) to treat his wife nicely. Nasiha from community leader or ulama could give good effect to reduce domestic violence.

If the wife decide to divorce, she will back to her family which will fulfill she and her kids needs. So, financial fear is not a factor to prevent the wife to get divorced. In my place the popular words of request divorce is "Pulangkan aku pada orang tuaku!" (send me back to my parents!).

But in fact, not every wife who abused by the husband choose to report it to the third party, and request divorce. There are wives who choose to remain their marriage.

There are two factors that makes them choose to not divorce.

First. They still love their husband, and believe their husband will be changed to the better person who will treat them well. There were cases which the wives families tried to bring these violence cases to sharia court or police. But the wives refused it, even those wives stood on the husband side and defend them.

The second is kid factor. They choose to remain their marriage because they believe, it's better if their kids still have parents who live with them.

However, different places, different cultures. There are places where the women are not so protected like in my place. In those places, if the wives report domestic violence case to the third party, it could be considered as 'inappropriate' action. Even their families could consider this as disgrace, and maybe they would not accept those women if they back to their parents. It makes those women afraid to get divorced.

Like I have said, culture plays important roles in domestic violence cases.
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TrueStranger
03-18-2012, 05:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ardianto
Assalamualaikum.

Culture plays important role in domestic violence cases. In my place, married women are still under protection from their families, from community leaders, and from ulama. If a husband abuse the wife, the wife can report it to her family, and her family will come to help her. Maybe just warn the husband, maybe register a divorce to sharia court, maybe report this violence to police. Even in some cases the wife brothers hit the husband, literally hit.

Not only the family, the community leader and ulama can intervene this. They call the husband and give him nasiha (advice) to treat his wife nicely. Nasiha from community leader or ulama could give good effect to reduce domestic violence.

If the wife decide to divorce, she will back to her family which will fulfill she and her kids needs. So, financial fear is not a factor to prevent the wife to get divorced. In my place the popular words of request divorce is "Pulangkan aku pada orang tuaku!" (send me back to my parents!).

But in fact, not every wife who abused by the husband choose to report it to the third party, and request divorce. There are wives who choose to remain their marriage.

There are two factors that makes them choose to not divorce.

First. They still love their husband, and believe their husband will be changed to the better person who will treat them well. There were cases which the wives families tried to bring these violence cases to sharia court or police. But the wives refused it, even those wives stood on the husband side and defend them.

The second is kid factor. They choose to remain their marriage because they believe, it's better if their kids still have parents who live with them.

However, different places, different cultures. There are places where the women are not so protected like in my place. In those places, if the wives report domestic violence case to the third party, it could be considered as 'inappropriate' action. Even their families could consider this as disgrace, and maybe they would not accept those women if they back to their parents. It makes those women afraid to get divorced.

Like I have said, culture plays important roles in domestic violence cases.
The cultural factor can not be ignored. Domestic violence continuous mainly because women are not getting the support they need from their families and societies. I personally thought that a father or a mother would feel the pain of their daughter. But in most cases the father probably has the same mindset as his son-in-law, while the mother has the blame the victim mentality. I knew a girl who was being forced into marriage, an abusive one for that matter. The Pilot was her own father, and the husband to be was a cousin. There was absolutely nothing I could have done. I told her to tell a family member that was understanding, there was only one aunt that was forced to mind her own business. Her brothers turned a blind eye, and close relatives were congratulating her even when she refused. She was being physically abused, so I told her to go to her community leaders. No help at all. It was a practice that was accepted wildly and the few that were against it were told to stay out. My last advice was to call the police if he strikes you. I went as far as asking my dad if he could do something about it, but my dad didn't even speak their language for him to interfere in another cultures, families, personal affairs. His advice to her was whatever you do, do not agree to the marriage. But at the end she was forced into it and when she refused to share beds with him, he broke her fingers, and literally beat her up. She did not go to the hospital for a whole week. Her injuries were infected, and her family didn't bother to go to the hospital. At the end we told her to go to her father's house and not leave. She did, and at the end they finally had to get a divorce.

But just look at all that preventable pain inflicted on her. For what?

When people continue to behave in a certain way because their ancestors did the same thing, then the good, the bad, and the ugly all stay the same. We live at world where the internet and globalization has brought the Muslim community together and to the West every Muslim communities problem is the Muslim World's problems. Not all problems are prevalent in Muslim communities, but that does not stop the world from giving it a Muslim Face.


Divorce is highly looked down upon in some cultures, while in others it is not even thought of as an issue. My grandmother got married 4 times, twice with her second husband. Most divorced women I know were perfectly able to re-marry in 6-9 months or two years. Using highly charged emotional words
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CosmicPathos
03-18-2012, 05:59 PM
the article does not really define what is meant by "abusive." As far as I know telling her to get religious education might be present as being "abusive."

As for sexual addiction, would then she let him marry a second wife? Using the words "sexual addiction" and "suffering from", I see. How do you define sexual addiction? Has he been diagnosed by addiction? Does his sexual addiction effect his other important areas of life? If someone likes to haev sex with his wife 2 times daily, that is not really sexual addiction. Might be to the wife if she is not into that sort of thing, but then again, he should marry another, or divorce and re-marry.

Good luck to the sisters.
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TrueStranger
03-18-2012, 06:14 PM
I doubt the sister will present a husband actually telling his wife to get Islamic education as abusive. The term abuse is used when the victim is harmed physically, psychologically, and sexually. I think everyone knows that the term implies inflicting pain and suffering on someone. Abuse has both a negative denotative and connotative meaning attached to it.

We all know what domestic violence is, focusing on defining the obvious does not change the nature of the problem.
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CosmicPathos
03-18-2012, 06:18 PM
No, I only know of domestic violence which is physical and indeed unislamic. You can measure physical violence by looking at scars and bruises and general health condition of the patient.

I am not so sure about any psychological abuse as it is not measurable and is very subjective depending on the side of story you hear. It could be severe or it could be benign. No way of knowing. We all suffer benign psychological abuse in workplace. Medical students are treated like sh** by residents and staff. Clerks are treated like crap by their bosses. We all have to endure it, if we are to succeed. Of course if the absue is so obvious, we can always complain to the ombudsperson. But most often the abuse is silent and invisible ... we know it is there, and we have to put up with it, if we are to succeed.
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TrueStranger
03-18-2012, 06:35 PM
Actually, psychological abuse or existence of mental disorders are measured using standardized DSM-III-R. Psychologically abused women usually have mental disorders such as depression.

Anyways, such matters are trivalent and besides the point here. It's obviously clear that abuse occurs and this men have to be punished for abusing their own wives or female family members. What can community leaders and scholars do, or are they also influenced by the same culture and this problem requires outside influence.
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Insaanah
03-18-2012, 06:36 PM
:sl:

I know the thread is about domestic violence, but I wonder if I could mention the wider scope of domestic abuse.

This can include psychological/emotional abuse, blackmail, bullying, shunning/ostracization/treating as a pariah, and also stopping the nafaqah (spending money that husband gives to wife to buy food and for household spending).

Unfortunately, sometimes this extends to being inflicted not just on the wife but on the offspring too, even if the offspring are adults themselves.

Perpetrators are not always young/middle aged. Even those in their 70's and 80's and otherwise "pious" do not seem immune from behaving like this. Their main victims are at a similar age when their health, physical and emotional, really cannot take it.

One reason as to why women endure, that I couldn't see mentioned, is that if they try to look for suitors for their children, sometimes people think that children from a broken home will not be as stable. Also, there is the cultural perception, e.g. if the husband won't divorce but behaves as above, so the wife asks for khula, the people will say she kicked a practising elderly man out, what a wicked woman she is, especially if society perceives the man as being oh so pious and sweet. If she has to go, she doesn't want to leave the only home she's ever known. And of course, if he is the only man in the house, they think it's better to have a man in the house than not at all...

May Allah guide all Muslims and ease their affairs, ameen.
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GuestFellow
03-18-2012, 06:39 PM
I even heard men suffer from domestic violence. Some do not want to hit their wife back, otherwise she will report him to the police station and then he will get in trouble for domestic violence.
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TrueStranger
03-18-2012, 06:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Insaanah
:sl:

I know the thread is about domestic violence, but I wonder if I could mention the wider scope of domestic abuse.

This can include psychological/emotional abuse, blackmail, bullying, shunning/ostracization/treating as a pariah, and also stopping the nafaqah (spending money that husband gives to wife to buy food and for household spending).

Unfortunately, sometimes this extends to being inflicted not just on the wife but on the offspring too, even if the offspring are adults themselves.

Perpetrators are not always young/middle aged. Even those in their 70's and 80's and otherwise "pious" do not seem immune from behaving like this. Their main victims are at a similar age when their health, physical and emotional, really cannot take it.

One reason as to why women endure, that I couldn't see mentioned, is that if they try to look for suitors for their children, sometimes people think that children from a broken home will not be as stable. Also, there is the cultural perception, e.g. if the husband won't divorce but behaves as above, so the wife asks for khula, the people will say she kicked a practising elderly man out, what a wicked woman she is, especially if society perceives the man as being oh so pious and sweet. If she has to go, she doesn't want to leave the only home she's ever known. And of course, if he is the only man in the house, they think it's better to have a man in the house than not at all...

May Allah guide all Muslims and ease their affairs, ameen.
Well stated sister. I honestly do think that the worst predators known to mankind are those who act piously in public, while they behave in the most cruel way at home. I think we just need to stand up for what is right more often, even if it's against our own selves, families, or friends.

Today, a sister put up a status on her page, saying "What if Muslim women could marry Non-Muslim men?" Obviously, that is insanity, but her reason was "They treat their women better". That is not true, for non-Muslim men could be as equally abusive if not more. However, there are more non-Muslims who openly criticize abuse of women, then there are Muslim men. And that creates the illusion of them treating women part.

We have to speak up, especially, Muslim men. They should be the first ones to prevent their fellow men from behaving in an un-Islamic and inhumane manner.
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CosmicPathos
03-18-2012, 06:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
I even heard men suffer from domestic violence. Some do not want to hit their wife back, otherwise she will report him to the police station and then he will get in trouble for domestic violence.
yup it is mostly in the form of blackmailing him to spend more on her as opposed to his siblings/his parents. or forcing him to choose between his mother or herself in terms of spending time. it depends on the type of man. if he was self-reliant and self-dependent and not needy from day 1 and made it clear to the wifey that he cant be puppeted around, chances of him being abused are low.

or in some cases, it could be in the form of not sharing the bed with him for no medical or obvious reason. or in other cases, as is common with both genders, having relationships with someone outside the marriage and committing adultery.
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Cabdullahi
03-18-2012, 06:53 PM
“I love my wife,” a Caucasian brother quietly expresses his deep desire, which he thinks will end his miserable marital situation. he is married to a Moroccan woman and has been abused throughout his married life.

His abusive relationship has brought him to the point that he is to embarrassed to seek help, but he is unwilling to get out of the marriage for only one reason: Love. He has relentless love for his wife and because of that he cannot see himself standing up to her and saying enough is enough, he knows she's fragile and does not want to lay a finger on her. If he leaves the marriage, he fears of how she may end up and who will provide care for her.

Another Brother is in a worse situation; his wife not only verbally abuses him, but also suffers a shopping addiction. he also remains in his marriage because he fears that she will take full custody of the children, leaving him lonely and dejected possibly for the rest of his life. She says that he is good for nothing, he comes back from work to find that she is busy watching loose women on TV and has no time to greet him let alone cooking him a meal after a hard days work.


Men suffer domestic violence too, and there is not even one domestic violence shelter...not even one!

Take it like a man!, and besides you are a nasty sexual addict anyway is what the media says!
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TrueStranger
03-18-2012, 06:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
I even heard men suffer from domestic violence. Some do not want to hit their wife back, otherwise she will report him to the police station and then he will get in trouble for domestic violence.
That is so true, except the only difference between men and women is that he could easily divorce her and society will not stigmatize him. And more importantly, there is a huge disparity between the level of violence inflicted on women and men.

Men abuse women on a higher rate and level than women abuse men. The problem is more severe for the female gender and society really isn't doing much.
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TrueStranger
03-18-2012, 07:00 PM
Guys, no form of abuse should be tolerated. And if you want to talk about men being abused by their wives, then by all means post a thread and we will gladly condemn it without saying "Women are abused too". That is a sad way of saying we are on equal footing when it comes to abuse and violence.

I do not see how saying "men are abused" too will change the statistics of domestic violence. This thread is mainly about women. Please stay on topic.
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CosmicPathos
03-18-2012, 07:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
That is so true, except the only difference between men and women is that he could easily divorce her and society will not stigmatize him. And more importantly, there is a huge disparity between the level of violence inflicted on women and men.
and he can continue on feeling like **** for the rest of his life that a woman he loved and married betrayed him? you make it sound like eating a cheese cake and moving on after divorcing her. At the very least he lost his mahr money. and lost the respect in front of his family and friends and colleagues that he let a woman stab a dagger in his back.

maybe that is why deep down I do have some concerns for the bent rib of Adam.

its a problem for both genders and parroting things like "will not stimgatize him" highlights your psychosis and loss of contact with reality.

good day.
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جوري
03-18-2012, 07:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
maybe that is why deep down I do have some hatred for the rib of Adam.
are you a misogynist?
You'd be ok with your wife to be reading some of the posts you have here? would your mom or sisters if you have them be proud?
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TrueStranger
03-18-2012, 07:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
and he can continue on feeling like **** for the rest of his life that a woman betrayed him? maybe that is why deep down I do have some hatred for the rib of Adam.

People get betrayed all the time by both genders. Just because a single female betrayed you doesn't mean that you have to take it out on the rest of us. It's completely wrong for both genders to cause unnecessary pain. I still can not see how two people that love each other could inflict long-term pain on each other.

"And among His Signs is that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that you may dwell in tranquility with them, and He put love and mercy between your hearts. Verily in that are Signs for those who reflect." [Sûrah Rûm: 21]


May Allah put love and mercy in the hearts of every married couple. Their disunity is a reflection of the disunity of the Muslim Ummah.
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TrueStranger
03-18-2012, 07:15 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ßlµêßêll
are you a misogynist?
You'd be ok with your wife to be reading some of the posts you have here? would your mom or sisters if you have them be proud?
I think that when problems are no longer addressed verbally they manifest themselves in another form. Most Muslims come from societies where emotions involving relationships and family issues are not even spoken of.
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جوري
03-18-2012, 07:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
I think that when problems are no longer addressed verbally they manifest themselves in another form. Most Muslims come from societies where emotions involving relationships and family issues are not even spoken of.
Yesterday I happened upon an anonymous post circa 2008-2009 which I believe was written by now a banned member & considering her other post on imposing an age limit for marriage (which I don't personally agree with) as one size doesn't fit all for all societies but I digress and with her last post I concluded something rather horrific took place in her life. She stands today banned and in lieu of members offering a root cause analysis to what she was feeling or thinking (mind you this is a Muslim) not a Muslim on a cusp not a kaffir looking to vilify & troll rather someone whose opinion was very much shaped by her events and whatever little condolence or help she was seeking was nipped in the bud in a most vile manner which I didn't expect at all from Muslims let alone people that I'd otherwise have tremendous respect for.
I am hurt of what transpired and I am hurt for her. I only pray Allah swt shows her aright and accompanies her as she seems to be fighting many negative forces on every front and under threat to that which is obviously most valuable to her which is her child..

:w:
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Cabdullahi
03-18-2012, 07:28 PM


Interesting video i found a while back
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جوري
03-18-2012, 07:33 PM
This I assume is fashioned after the Tarasoff law from the U.S where you've a duty to protect and a duty to warn after a psychopath told his counselor he wanted to kill his GF and eventually did!

Prevention is better than a cure as they say in this case there's no coming back from death or permanent brain damage..
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GuestFellow
03-18-2012, 07:38 PM
Salaam,

format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
That is so true, except the only difference between men and women is that he could easily divorce her and society will not stigmatize him. And more importantly, there is a huge disparity between the level of violence inflicted on women and men.

Men abuse women on a higher rate and level than women abuse men. The problem is more severe for the female gender and society really isn't doing much.
I don't rely on statistics. The only reason why it is believed men abuse women on a higher rate because women find it easier to report these issues. Most men are too embarrassed to report it.


format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
and he can continue on feeling like **** for the rest of his life that a woman he loved and married betrayed him? you make it sound like eating a cheese cake and moving on after divorcing her. At the very least he lost his mahr money. and lost the respect in front of his family and friends and colleagues that he let a woman stab a dagger in his back.

maybe that is why deep down I do have some concerns for the bent rib of Adam.

its a problem for both genders and parroting things like "will not stimgatize him" highlights your psychosis and loss of contact with reality.

good day.
I would say it would leave a emotional scar and hard to move on.

I have to admit, I know this is very wrong, but if my wife slapped me, I would get extremely angry. I would probably throw her out of the window or something terrible. O_o
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TrueStranger
03-18-2012, 07:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ßlµêßêll

Yesterday I happened upon an anonymous post circa 2008-2009 which I believe was written by now a banned member & considering her other post on imposing an age limit for marriage (which I don't personally agree with) as one size doesn't fit all for all societies but I digress and with her last post I concluded something rather horrific took place in her life. She stands today banned and in lieu of members offering a root cause analysis to what she was feeling or thinking (mind you this is a Muslim) not a Muslim on a cusp not a kaffir looking to vilify & troll rather someone whose opinion was very much shaped by her events and whatever little condolence or help she was seeking was nipped in the bud in a most vile manner which I didn't expect at all from Muslims let alone people that I'd otherwise have tremendous respect for.
I am hurt of what transpired and I am hurt for her. I only pray Allah swt shows her aright and accompanies her as she seems to be fighting many negative forces on every front and under threat to that which is obviously most valuable to her which is her child..

:w:
I have learned the hard way. Muslims are humans who are capable of making enormous mistakes and placing a high value on their opinion could put you in a very uncomfortable situation when certain socially constructed issues arise. I have repeatedly said that we should try to understand people's conditions from multiple view points, and not solely from an Islamic point of view. That is one important factor, but we should at least try our best to fully understand the structure of everyone's problem. And because of that I'm very hesitant when it comes to commenting on the advice section.

May Allah guide her and protect her child wherever she might be today. Ameen
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Cabdullahi
03-18-2012, 07:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ßlµêßêll
This I assume is fashioned after the Tarasoff law from the U.S where you've a duty to protect and a duty to warn after a psychopath told his counselor he wanted to kill his GF and eventually did!

Prevention is better than a cure as they say in this case there's no coming back from death or permanent brain damage..
What about the woman who says she will cut off the reproductive organ of her husband and everyone laughs about it.

California woman cuts off husband's penis

A US woman drugged her estranged husband, tied him to a bed and cut off his penis, police in California say.

The woman then threw the penis into the waste disposal and told police who attended the incident in Garden Grove, near Los Angeles: "He deserved it."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-14131133
No prevention for the sake of men, when it happens it happens

Woman bites off boyfriend's testicles
A woman who admitted biting off her boyfriend's testicles has been warned she could be jailed.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...testicles.html
could be jailed? they cannot decide whether to jail her or not, subhanaAllah
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TrueStranger
03-18-2012, 07:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Cbdullahii
What about the woman who says she will cut off the reproductive organ of her husband and everyone laughs about it.



No prevention for the sake of men, when it happens it happens
Brother, men don't report their abuse because other men laugh at them. I know of a woman who was arrested because she was chasing her husband around the apartment with a knife. It was men who were laughing at him, and the overwhelming majority of women stood with the husband. Everyone knows she is the crazy one and is labeled as such.

This problem will be solved if men and women condemned the wrong person regardless of their gender.
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Ramadan90
03-18-2012, 07:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
I have to admit, I know this is very wrong, but if my wife slapped me, I would get extremely angry. I would probably throw her out of the window or something terrible. O_o
:uuh:...
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TrueStranger
03-18-2012, 07:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Allah<3
:uuh:...
LOL! My thought exactly.

If your wife slaps you, then that marriage was over before that slap landed on your face.
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Ramadan90
03-18-2012, 07:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
LOL! My thought exactly.

If your wife slaps you, then that marriage was over before that slap landed on your face.
LOL, I really do not know. I would be so angry, but I would never raise my hand. I hope I get along with my future wife.:heated:
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جوري
03-18-2012, 07:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Cbdullahii
What about the woman who says she will cut off the reproductive organ of her husband and everyone laughs about it.
That should go under:
Domestic Violence: why men endure?

Different psychology & certainly worthy of its own thread.

:w:
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TrueStranger
03-18-2012, 08:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Allah<3
LOL, I really do not know. I would be so angry, but I would never raise my hand. I hope I get along with my future wife.:heated:
I'm just glad I grew up in a house where problems were never solved using the hand.

Rule # 1, if someone is mad, remain silent, nod your head, and put distance between the two of you. ;D
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CosmicPathos
03-18-2012, 08:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ßlµêßêll
are you a misogynist?
You'd be ok with your wife to be reading some of the posts you have here? would your mom or sisters if you have them be proud?
I realized hatred was a word I did not want to use, hence I edited it. But I guess it was too late.

No I dont hate women just cuz they are women. But this thread is only adding to the stereotypes when it assumes that it is easier for men to move on from a divorce. Perhaps for some it is, for other it is not. Just like it is easy for some women to move on after a divorce, and hard for others. My relative died with the constant agony when his wife was having relationships with someone and he had ti divorce her. It was not so much that he needed her, it was that for the first time, apart from his real family parents and siblings, he trusted someone, and that trust was crushed and smashed and destroyed and annihilated. It was an attack on his ego from someone for whom he purposely he let his guards down, and it was not easy to move on, no matter what lies truestranger spreads.
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جوري
03-18-2012, 08:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
I realized hatred was a word I did not want to use, hence I edited it. But I guess it was too late.

No I dont hate women just cuz they are women. But this thread is only adding to the stereotypes when it assumes that it is easier for men to move on from a divorce. Perhaps for some it is, for other it is not. Just like it is easy for some women to move on after a divorce, and hard for others. My relative died in agony when his wife was having relationships with someone and he had ti divorce her. It was not so much that he needed her, it was that for the first time, apart from his real family parents and siblings, he trusted someone, and that trust was crushed and smashed and destroyed and annihilated.
You're a good guy deep inside & I pray insha'Allah that Allah swt blesses you with a good loving pious woman that you'll feel this same fervency & urge to kill for the way you do on many of your threads here..

But I hope you see that everyone has a story that helped shaped their beliefs..

:w:
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TrueStranger
03-18-2012, 08:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
I realized hatred was a word I did not want to use, hence I edited it. But I guess it was too late.

No I dont hate women just cuz they are women. But this thread is only adding to the stereotypes when it assumes that it is easier for men to move on from a divorce. Perhaps for some it is, for other it is not. Just like it is easy for some women to move on after a divorce, and hard for others. My relative died in agony when his wife was having relationships with someone and he had ti divorce her. It was not so much that he needed her, it was that for the first time, apart from his real family parents and siblings, he trusted someone, and that trust was crushed and smashed and destroyed and annihilated.
Correction: It's not easier for men to move away from a divorce, it is easier for them to leave an abusive relationship. There isn't a single human who has monopoly over trust values. One wrong does not excuse another wrong.
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GuestFellow
03-18-2012, 08:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ßlµêßêll

You're a good guy deep inside & I pray insha'Allah that Allah swt blesses you with a good loving pious woman that you'll feel this same fervency & urge to kill for the way you do on many of your threads here..

But I hope you see that everyone has a story that helped shaped their beliefs..

:w:
:wa:

On the surface, he's cold, but deep down, he's a huggable teddy bear. :statisfie

Enough of me being weird. I wonder why men abuse their wives in the first place.
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CosmicPathos
03-18-2012, 08:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ßlµêßêll

You're a good guy deep inside & I pray insha'Allah that Allah swt blesses you with a good loving pious woman that you'll feel this same fervency & urge to kill for the way you do on many of your threads here..

But I hope you see that everyone has a story that helped shaped their beliefs..

:w:
same prayers for you sister,

jazkallah khair.

salam
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purple
03-18-2012, 08:49 PM
UK: Two women a week die in the hands of their partner. Dead women don’t report crimes. So please stay on topic. The fact is more women suffer from DV and if you want to take into account unreported crimes of men, please also take into account unreported crimes of women too. Women will still make up majority of victims in DV. Men are able to divorce their wives without stigma attached to them by society and are not financial dependent on their partner. Divorce may emotionally affect men but they don’t have stigma of society to deal with unlike their female counterpart. Either way violence towards your partner is not right. Plus the video posted, at the bottom says violent partners will be evicted; it doesn’t particularly say men will be evicted. Violence towards women around the world is epidemic. Stop trying to downplay that.


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GuestFellow
03-18-2012, 09:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by purple
UK: Two women a week die in the hands of their partner. Dead women don’t report crimes. So please stay on topic. The fact is more women suffer from DV and if you want to take into account unreported crimes of men, please also take into account unreported crimes of women too. Women will still make up majority of victims in DV. Men are able to divorce their wives without stigma attached to them by society and are not financial dependent on their partner. Divorce may emotionally affect men but they don’t have stigma of society to deal with unlike their female counterpart. Either way violence towards your partner is not right. Plus the video posted, at the bottom says violent partners will be evicted; it doesn’t particularly say men will be evicted. Violence towards women around the world is epidemic. Stop trying to downplay that.
Salaam,

None of us are aware about which gender has a higher DV rate. This is because not everyone is going to report them. Statistics do not reveal everything.

Men have a difficult chance of seeing their children after divorce in the UK. So men can have a hard time as well. In addition, I have seen cases where the women has accused their ex-husband of rape and make their life very difficult.

It is a lot easier for the women to appear to be the victim.
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TrueStranger
03-18-2012, 09:18 PM
I think the bruises speak for themselves. Again, if you do not believe in statistics, and you do not accept the data that is available, then what evidence are you using to claim that men are as equally abused by women or more?

I'm sure there is a problem men deal with as well, but please don't compare apples with oranges.
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purple
03-18-2012, 09:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
Salaam,

None of us are aware about which gender has a higher DV rate. This is because not everyone is going to report them. Statistics do not reveal everything.

Men have a difficult chance of seeing their children after divorce in the UK. So men can have a hard time as well. In addition, I have seen cases where the women has accused their ex-husband of rape and make their life very difficult.

It is a lot easier for the women to appear to be the victim.
If it is easier for women to appear to be the victim, then why the low level of conviction for rape?
Dead women don’t report DV. 2 women a week die on the hands of their partner which far more then men being killed by their partner. Can you explain this statistics?
Men might have difficult time having custody of their children, but there are a lot more people complaining about that.
Men might have hard time when accused of rape but what about those where their rapist get away with rape?




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purple
03-18-2012, 09:36 PM
you said society gives stigma. well that society contains a number fo females. So females having stigma agaisnt females. go deal with them yourself before blaming men.

good day.
please address my points in this thread to Comicpathos.

Men are also part of the problem. Most will not marry divorced women as someone already mentioned in this thread. People are trying to downplay the level of violence towards women by playing "it happens to men too". Most DV organisations do extend their hands to men that suffer DV and shelters dont close their doors to men. Anyone thats speak against DV towards women, dont agree with DV towards men. I dont like both but will not downplay one to benefit the other.
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CosmicPathos
03-18-2012, 09:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by purple
Comicpathos
it is cosmic. Now I am sure it was not a typo and was an attempt at failed sarcasm. if you cant respect others, you are not worthy of respect yourself.
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purple
03-18-2012, 09:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
it is cosmic. Now I am sure it was not a typo and was an attempt at failed sarcasm. if you cant respect others, you are not worthy of respect yourself.
No, it was a typo. And I have created a thread about DV towards men and organsations that can help these men. If anyone of you felt sorry for these men, you would have created the thread yourself instead of downplaying DV towards women. I dont agree with either. But it tends to be the women that speak out for these men and men that make these men feel worthless and less masculine. It tends to be the men that discourage men to speak about their emotions and feelings. So, until there is level of respect and acceptance amongst men that it is okay to speak about emotions. Abuse of any kind towards men and boys will remain hidden.
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purple
03-18-2012, 10:04 PM
No more discussion about DV towards men. I have created a thread for it with organisations that can help. This thread is about DV towards women and I will ishallah post organisations that can help women that suffer from DV.

Sorry If I offended fellow muslims here.
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CosmicPathos
03-18-2012, 10:06 PM
well you keep on talking about stigmatization from society. Well guess what, society is only 50% men. The rest is women. Maybe you should try including women as equals participants in stigmatization too.

this was my last post here.
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TrueStranger
03-18-2012, 10:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
:wa:


Enough of me being weird. I wonder why men abuse their wives in the first place.
That is a good question. There are obviously multiple reasons, but at the end on one deserves to be abused. It's not a normal factor of marriage. How does one hit the mother of your children and then expect them to actually respect their mother. They are clearly misusing their authority over their wives to inflict pain. They probably won't do that to anyone else in society.
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purple
03-18-2012, 10:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
well you keep on talking about stigmatization from society. Well guess what, society is only 50% men. The rest is women. Maybe you should try including women as equals participants in stigmatization too.

this was my last post here.
My respected brother, I did not say a particular gender caused this stigma. I said society as whole is the problem meaning both women and men.

yes some women do make worse for their fellow sisters too. Whatever the case may be this stigma exist.
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TrueStranger
03-18-2012, 10:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by purple
My respected brother, I did not say a particular gender caused this stigma. I said society as whole is the problem meaning both women and men.

yes some women do make worse for their fellow sisters too. Whatever the case may be this stigma exist.
Don't worry much about it sis. You would think that an issue as horrendous as this would receive collective condemnation, but what we see is excuses and statements that downplay the problem.

I honestly do not want to hear such statements.
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GuestFellow
03-18-2012, 10:27 PM
Salaam,

format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
I think the bruises speak for themselves. Again, if you do not believe in statistics, and you do not accept the data that is available, then what evidence are you using to claim that men are as equally abused by women or more?

I'm sure there is a problem men deal with as well, but please don't compare apples with oranges.
Statistics give an idea but do not present the entire truth. I'm saying we don't know which gender is abused more, since statistics cannot give us the entire picture. Hope I made myself clear.

format_quote Originally Posted by purple
If it is easier for women to appear to be the victim, then why the low level of conviction for rape?
No idea.

When I said it was easier for women to appear to the victim, I meant in the cases of domestic violence. If a man were to turn up to a police station and said his wife beat him up, some men would find it funny and not take him seriously.

Dead women don’t report DV. 2 women a week die on the hands of their partner which far more then men being killed by their partner. Can you explain this statistics?
Can you show me where you got the information? Besides, what do you want me to explain?

Men might have difficult time having custody of their children, but there are a lot more people complaining about that.
Men might have hard time when accused of rape but what about those where their rapist get away with rape?
I'm saying everyone has a hard time, not just women. The children have a very difficult time where their parents split up.

Rape is a difficult crime to prove because the punishment is very severe. If there is any doubt that the defendant is not guilty, he will not be punished. Hence, why there is a very high standard in criminal courts. When you say the rapist gets away with rape, it shows you have a very flawed understanding of the criminal justice system. Everyone is innocent until prove guilty. If the prosecution cannot establish that the defendant has committed rape, then technically he's innocent. You may believe he is the rapist, but it is based on suspicion and not evidence.

Men get raped too, but this is rarely reported.

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TrueStranger
03-18-2012, 10:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
Salaam,

Statistics give an idea but do not present the entire truth. I'm saying we don't know which gender is abused more, since statistics cannot give us the entire picture. Hope I made myself clear.
Typos, that statement is completely inaccurate and contradicts reality. Domestic violence against women is not a folktale, and you made a poor attempt at discrediting the data. Instead of criticizing the problem, you've decided to question the data without providing evidence which might assist your argument.

You're truly diverting your attention and that of the thread away from condemning those who practice it and those who make excuses for it. Try being part of the solution, and not the problem.
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purple
03-18-2012, 10:46 PM


No idea.

When I said it was easier for women to appear to the victim, I meant in the cases of domestic violence. If a man were to turn up to a police station and said his wife beat him up, some men would find it funny and not take him seriously.
Actually there are increasing number of women being convicted of DV. So, police do take DV towards men seriously. It is just you and many others are quick to assume DV towards men will not be taken seriously. And it is often men that make jokes about women that beat men. And it is often men that create environment and uphold stereotypes by not encouraging each other to speak about their emotions.

Can you show me where you got the information? Besides, what do you want me to explain?
National Statistics- direct .gov.uk.


I'm saying everyone has a hard time, not just women. The children have a very difficult time where their parents split up.

Rape is a difficult crime to prove because the punishment is very severe. If there is any doubt that the defendant is not guilty, he will not be punished. Hence, why there is a very high standard in criminal courts. When you say the rapist gets away with rape, it shows you have a very flawed understanding of the criminal justice system. Everyone is innocent until prove guilty. If the prosecution cannot establish that the defendant has committed rape, then technically he's innocent. You may believe he is the rapist, but it is based on suspicion and not evidence.

Men get raped too, but this is rarely reported.
You were feeling sorry for those that get accused of rape, I was pointing out to you to imagine those that did get rape to have their rapist get away with rape (that includes male victims). It does not matter if they were found innocent by court of law, if they did it; it means they got away with raping another human being.

Plus I have created thread about DV towards men (waiting to be accepted). If you cared passionately about it, you would have created the thread yourself instead of downplaying DV towards women. So the discussion ends here.
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GuestFellow
03-18-2012, 11:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
Typos
Salaam,

I prefer to be called Tragic. :statisfie

that statement is completely inaccurate and contradicts reality.
Why?

Domestic violence against women is not a folktale
I'm aware women suffer from domestic violence.

and you made a poor attempt at discrediting the data.
What data have I been presented?

Instead of criticizing the problem, you've decided to question the data without providing evidence which might assist your argument.
The burden of proof is on Purple. She said,

2 women a week die on the hands of their partner which far more then men being killed by their partner.
She made a claim. I asked her where she got this information from.

I could make a claim from the top of my head. I could say every 6 seconds, a girl falls in love with Tragic Typos, because he is so handsome...I wish :/ The burden is on me to prove it.

You're truly diverting your attention and that of the thread away from condemning those who practice it and those who make excuses for it. Try being part of the solution, and not the problem.
All I'm saying some men can be victims of domestic violence. No one knows which gender suffers domestic violence more. Statistics don't reveal everything.

What is the problem?
How have I caused the problem?
What is the solution?


format_quote Originally Posted by purple
Actually there are increasing number of women being convicted of DV. So, police do take DV towards men seriously.
That's good news.

It is just you and many others are quick to assume DV towards men will not be taken seriously.
Okay.


National Statistics- direct .gov.uk.
Specifically show where you got that statistic from the website you mentioned. Otherwise, I will conclude you made that statistic up.


You were feeling sorry for those that get accused of rape,
Your right that they are accused. They are innocent until proven guilty. Oh, I have not sympathy towards the accused, nor do I hate them. I'm indifferent.

I was pointing out to you to imagine those that did get rape to have their rapist get away with rape (that includes male victims). It does not matter if they were found innocent by court of law, if they did it; it means they got away with raping another human being.
How am I supposed to know they committed rape? No evidence, no conviction. Harsh approach, but this is the approach I take. If the accused is found not guilty, he did not commit rape.


Plus I have created thread about DV towards men (waiting to be accepted). If you cared passionately about it, you would have created the thread yourself instead of downplaying DV towards women. So the discussion ends here.
Oh I'm not passionate about it. I just thought I raise it here. Why should the discussion end here? I'll continue to post away. You can choose to ignore me or respond to my posts, especially if you prefer to have the last say.
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TrueStranger
03-18-2012, 11:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
Salaam,

The burden of proof is on Purple. She said,

She made a claim. I asked her where she got this information from.
Watch the ONLY video that was posted on this thread.
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GuestFellow
03-18-2012, 11:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
Watch the ONLY video that was posted on this thread.
Salaam,

Okay. I'll do that.
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Aprender
03-19-2012, 12:07 AM
How unfortunate times that we live in when a thread about women being in abusive marriages gets hijacked and turned into something about "men being abused too" said by other Muslim men.

Wow. I expect that response from sheltered, upper middle class to rich, racially privileged American college males that I meet at the university but not from Muslim men. Astaghfirullah! And then to see some of my respected brothers on this forum converse with other Muslim women in such disrespectful terms is even worse! Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) taught us better than that!

Something is wrong here. Very, very, very wrong.

Brothers, you are not women. You don't know what it's like to be a woman or a Muslim woman. Instead of sitting here throwing out your suspicions and assumptions about the reality for women in marriages plagued with domestic violence across the world, stand up, and consider what solutions that the Muslim community could put out there to help your sisters who are struggling with this.
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White Rose
03-19-2012, 12:36 AM
:sl:
I think first of all, we should not compare western culture with eastern culture.
Now if you look at eastern culture only, women don't leave men just like that compared to men being abusive towards women. I feel like it is rare to find a guy that can suppress his anger like Prophet SAW. Also, our nature of religion was so that the women don't have to suffer pain and actually looks forward to getting married. Unfortunately, times have changed and women are appalled by the idea of marriage. :/
Also, when a woman brings up a complain, she is seeking assurance. To hope that men will understand what's going on and prove that they are different. However, men get defensive and think that women are generalizing...
Hope I made sense. These kind of topics make this world seem hopeless so I get anxious.
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GuestFellow
03-19-2012, 12:47 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aprender
How unfortunate times that we live in when a thread about women being in abusive marriages gets hijacked and turned into something about "men being abused too" said by other Muslim men.
Salaam,

We have all acknowledged that some women suffer from abuse. I said, men can suffer from domestic violence too. It is not off topic. It has a lot to do with this topic. Domestic violence affects everyone.


Wow. I expect that response from sheltered, upper middle class to rich, racially privileged American college males that I meet at the university but not from Muslim men. Astaghfirullah! And then to see some of my respected brothers on this forum converse with other Muslim women in such disrespectful terms is even worse! Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) taught us better than that!
Are you directing this at me? Is so, please be kind enough to point out where I have treated other Muslim women with disrespect.


Brothers, you are not women.
Thanks for pointing that out.

You don't know what it's like to be a woman or a Muslim woman.
Okay.

Instead of sitting here throwing out your suspicions and assumptions about the reality for women in marriages plagued with domestic violence across the world
Can you please point this out?

consider what solutions that the Muslim community could put out there to help your sisters who are struggling with this.
Even if I pointed out solutions, it would be a pointless exercise as they will never be implemented.
Reply

ardianto
03-19-2012, 12:51 AM
This is the translation Sighat Taklik that said by the groom in nikah procession in Indonesia. Notice at the bold point.

------------------------

After marriage agreement, I am .......................................... son of Mr. .............................................. I here with promise thruthfully that I will fulfill my obligation as a husband, and I will associate my wife named .................................................. . daughter of Mr. .................................................. ... kindly ( mu’asyarah bil ma’rufi ) according to the teaching of Islamic religion.

Furthermore, I read this sighat taklik for my wife mentioned as

follows :
Any time :
1. I leave my wife two years continuously ;
2. Or I do not give compulsory basic necessities of life three months long ;
3. Or I hurt my wife’s body / physic ;
4. Or I neglect / I do not care my wife for six months long.

Then my wife is not willing and my wife complains about her matter to the Religius Court and her complains is accepted by the court, and my wife pays money in the amount of Rp. 10.000,- (around US$ 1,1) as 'iwadh ( substitute) to me, then falls my once divorce to her.

To the court mentioned I outhorize to receive the substitute money and then to hand over it for the need of sociad devation.

---------------------------------

I said this Sighat Taklik too and signed it in my nikah procession. It's means I gave authority to the Sharia court to release my wife from marriage ties with me if I make mistakes like mentioned above and my wife is not willing with it.

Ulama in Indonesia always said, Islam is religion which women have honored position, because women are the mothers of ummah, and Jannah is under the mother feet. Sighat Taklik like written above is a proof that Islam protect the mothers of ummah.

Domestic violence are still happen in Indonesia. However, Indonesian women have advantage because Islam and ulama are stand with them. If a husband treat his wife badly, the wife can report it to an aleem, and this aleem will talk to the husband and give him nasiha to treat his wife well. Nasiha from ulama is effective enough to reduce abuse cases, physically and mentally.

But like I have said, culture play important role. Without having proud to my culture, there are cultures in certain Muslim countries which women are not in good position like in Indonesia. In those places, Islam and ulama are not stand with women when the wives get abused by their husbands. We often heard cases when wives are abused, but ulama, and ummah, did not help them.

Actually this is the challenge for da'i in those places to remind the men to give women their fitrah as the mother of ummah which Jannah is under their feet.
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purple
03-19-2012, 03:09 AM
Specifically show where you got that statistic from the website you mentioned. Otherwise, I will conclude you made that statistic up.

Any person would go to google and type in the website along with the statistics. It is long government documents that contain statistics of murders and violence. I have the hard copy. Here a below:

On average, two women a week in England and Wales are killed by a violent partner or ex-partner. This constitutes nearly 40% of all female homicide victims

Povey, D. (2005) Crime in England and Wales 2003/2004: Supplementary Volume 1: Homicide and Gun Crime. Home Office Statistical Bulletin No. 02/05. Home Office. London; Department of Health (2005) Responding to Domestic Abuse. DH. London.

I am aware the document is on the website I've mentioned.
Your right that they are accused. They are innocent until proven guilty. Oh, I have not sympathy towards the accused, nor do I hate them. I'm indifferent.
You mentioned how they have such harsh time being accused which clearly highlights that you do have some sympathy for them.

How am I supposed to know they committed rape? No evidence, no conviction. Harsh approach, but this is the approach I take. If the accused is found not guilty, he did not commit rape.
I didn’t say you suppose to know, I said it is a lot worse for a victims, male and female, to see their rapist free and no justice for them. Instead of feeling sorry for those accused, maybe your sympathy should be with those that cant convict their rapist. Just a thought


Oh I'm not passionate about it. I just thought I raise it here. Why should the discussion end here? I'll continue to post away. You can choose to ignore me or respond to my posts, especially if you prefer to have the last say.
This thread is about women suffering DV. You choose to derail this thread into “it happens to men too”, I have created a thread, you can write about men suffering from DV there. You are just trying to undermine intentions of this thread which to highlight DV towards women and the possible reasons. If you want to discuss men suffering my DV, go make another thread about it. By saying it happens to men too, you open the door to ridicule DV towards women which two members (see cbdullahi’s post's the joke version of the actual article) in this thread has already done. What have you achieved other than being a problem, rather than letting people explaining the causes and solutions. You may think it is nothing, but there are members in this forum that suffered or suffer from DV or have relatives or friends that do.

Now I want you discuss men suffering from DV in another thread. Ishallah you can discuss it in the one that I have created once it is accepted.
Reply

purple
03-19-2012, 03:11 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
We have all acknowledged that some women suffer from abuse. I said, men can suffer from domestic violence too. It is not off topic. It has a lot to do with this topic. Domestic violence affects everyone.
Why dont you read the topic title? It is about women that suffer from DV. You should have created another thread. You are trying to completely undermine DV towards women.
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TrueStranger
03-19-2012, 03:42 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
Salaam,

We have all acknowledged that some women suffer from abuse. I said, men can suffer from domestic violence too. It is not off topic. It has a lot to do with this topic. Domestic violence affects everyone.
Salaam Aliakum,

Not “everyone” is affected by domestic violence, and not everyone experiences it the same way. There are groups that are more susceptible to violence. Women on general experience more violence committed by their intimate partner than men do. Women also suffer more physical pain when abused by men. The amount of pain each gender could inflict is disproportionate as result of physical difference. Purposely ignoring data highlighting domestic violence against women only illustrates how quick you are to discredit and criticize data that was acquired through academic research, while making statements such as “everyone is affected by DV” to downplay the enormity of this issue. There are studies, which have shown inter-generational transmission of violence being as high as 60%. It has become a ritual for some men and it is passed from father to son, and so on.

You’re not even willing to suggest some solutions, yet you are eager to thrown salt on an open wound by questioning existing data and miserably try to claim that both genders suffer equally when it comes to socio-economic matter, and physical and psychological aspects. Instead of exploring the topic further more and doing a mini-research, you decided to repeatedly state that “men suffer from domestic violence too”, so therefore we are on equally footing when it comes to violence. Violence against women is acknowledge to be a global epidemic, and domestic violence is just one form of violence perpetuated against women.

The only time domestic violence against men is brought up is when women actually start talking about domestic violence against women. The only time men start talking about their rights, is when women start questioning inequalities and disparities. The only time men want to openly state their victimization is when women beginning to address women victims publicly.


Gender-based Abuse: The Global Epidemic 1 -Lori Heise

Domestic Violence

The most pervasive form of gender violence is abuse of women by intimate male partners. Over 30 well-designed surveys are now available from a wide range of countries showing that between one-fifth to over half of women interviewed have been beaten by a male partner (Table 2). The majority of these women are beaten at least three times a year with many experiencing persistent psychological and sexual abuse as well. According to a recent review in the Journal of the American Medical Association, “Women in the United States are more likely to be assaulted and injured, raped or killed by a current or ex-male partner than all other assailants combined” (American Medical Association, 1992). The same could be said of women elsewhere in the world. In Papua New Guinea, 18 percent of all urban wives surveyed had received hospital treatment for injuries inflicted by their husbands (Toft, 1986). In Alexandria, Egypt, domestic violence is the leading cause of injury to women, accounting for 28 percent of all visits to area trauma units (Graitcer, 1994). And in countries as diverse as Brazil, Israel, Canada, and Papua New Guinea, over half of all women murdered are killed by a current or former partner (Heise et al., 1994).
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ardianto
03-19-2012, 04:35 AM
If a husband beaten by his wife and he does not beat back, it's not because he afraid to his wife, but because he loves his wife. He can defeat his wife easily if he wants. But his love to his wife makes him choose to guide his wife becomes a wife who can respect him, slowly and softly.

But women are different. They want to escape or beat back, but they afraid their husbands will abuse them worse. This is the difference between domestic violence that happened to husbands and to wives.

Have you seen women who became victims of domestic violence?. Look at their faces, and you will see a fear.
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Muhaba
03-19-2012, 11:55 AM
it really does depend on the way the woman is raised and taught by society while growing up. it has to do all of society and to change the treatment of women, society needs to change how it raises and trains both men and women.
if boys are taught that it is not okay to beat women then they won't do it. Although Allah gives men the right to hit their wives when necessary, there are limits to this and God says to men in various places in the Quran that theymust treat their wives in a good way. Allah says: و عاشروا هن لاالمعروف See Surah Al-Nisa and Surah Talaq for more commands
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tigerkhan
03-19-2012, 12:09 PM
:sl:
:cry:
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ardianto
03-19-2012, 12:48 PM
(maybe) special for domestic violence cases that happen in Indonesia, one important factor that cannot be ignored is alcohol. Especially in poor and uneducated communities. Mostly of husbands who abuse their wives in these communities are alcoholic.

Those husbands fall into alcohol as a way out from their life problems. And when they have fallen into alcohol, their personalities began to changed, they become selfish. They do not care about their families, they care only to themselves. Many of them also fall into other ma'siat, gambling and zina.

Mostly of domestic violence cases in Indonesia happened because the wives try to remind their husbands about their responsibilities for family. But their husbands response it with violence to make their wives afraid and let them do whatever they want.


Of course, we cannot ignore a reality that not every wife is good. There are wives who neglect their duties as a wife. But in my place, husbands who have wives like this prefer to divorce their wives than beat to make their wives obey them.
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marwen
03-19-2012, 02:21 PM
Good thread.

I really find it hard to believe how some men are able to hit a woman, let alone a woman who is his wife after engaging in a marriage relationship. I can't imagine how they can live together afer that :hmm:.

Allah says (in surat Al nisaa') :
يَـٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ لَا يَحِلُّ لَكُمۡ أَن تَرِثُواْ ٱلنِّسَآءَ كَرۡهً۬ا*ۖ وَلَا تَعۡضُلُوهُنَّ لِتَذۡهَبُواْ بِبَعۡضِ مَآ ءَاتَيۡتُمُوهُنَّ إِلَّآ أَن يَأۡتِينَ بِفَـٰحِشَةٍ۬ مُّبَيِّنَةٍ۬*ۚ وَعَاشِرُوهُنَّ بِٱلۡمَعۡرُوفِ*ۚ فَإِن كَرِهۡتُمُوهُنَّ فَعَسَىٰٓ أَن تَكۡرَهُواْ شَيۡـًٔ۬ا وَيَجۡعَلَ ٱللَّهُ فِيهِ خَيۡرً۬ا ڪَثِيرً۬ا (١٩) ]وَإِنۡ أَرَدتُّمُ ٱسۡتِبۡدَالَ زَوۡجٍ۬ مَّڪَانَ زَوۡجٍ۬ وَءَاتَيۡتُمۡ إِحۡدَٮٰهُنَّ قِنطَارً۬ا فَلَا تَأۡخُذُواْ مِنۡهُ شَيۡـًٔا*ۚ أَتَأۡخُذُونَهُ ۥ بُهۡتَـٰنً۬ا وَإِثۡمً۬ا مُّبِينً۬ا (٢٠) وَكَيۡفَ تَأۡخُذُونَهُ ۥ وَقَدۡ أَفۡضَىٰ بَعۡضُڪُمۡ إِلَىٰ بَعۡضٍ۬ وَأَخَذۡنَ مِنڪُم مِّيثَـٰقًا غَلِيظً۬ا (٢١)
"O ye who believe! It is not lawful for you forcibly to inherit the women (of your deceased kinsmen), nor (that) ye should put constraint upon them that ye may take away a part of that which ye have given them, unless they be guilty of flagrant lewdness. But consort with them in kindness, for if ye hate them it may happen that ye hate a thing wherein Allah hath placed much good. (19) And if ye wish to exchange one wife for another and ye have given unto one of them a sum of money (however great), take nothing from it. Would ye take it by the way of calumny and open wrong? (20) How can ye take it (back) after one of you hath gone in unto the other, and they have taken a strong pledge from you? (21)"

Allah called marriage contract a "strong pledge" (مِّيثَـٰقًا غَلِيظً۬ا).
Even if you are not able to live with your wife anymore and you want to divorce her, you are not permitted to offend her or hurt her or be unjust with her.

Violence against women is a very atrocious thing, and it exists in some houses. But that's said, it's always unjust to generalize this fact or any fact. And it's incorrect and unjust to associate violence to a particular culture or group of people because violence is a personal behaviour, it depends on the personal codition of the person who uses violence (life condition, psychology, intellectual level, etc. ).
And it's also wrong to mix between a conservative person and a violent person. Being conservative is a choice based on personal views, and it's not necessary that a person expresses his conservative views with violence.

Generalizing separate facts and associating violence to a particular culture or religion is wrong and is only serving for other agendas.
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patientgrace
06-26-2012, 03:45 PM
Many women stay in abusive marriages for a number of reasons... I believe they main thing is they are afraid to leave because if they have been financially taken care of for so long, they are abused and told that they will never amount to anything if they leave or that they will never be able to make it on their own without their abusive spouse... Women who stay in these types of relationships IMO already have a low self esteem and do not have a strong sense of self-worth.

If a woman is abused daily physically or verbally, over time her confidence and self esteem are non existent. Her spouse has then been successful in bringing her down because that is where he wants her to be, that way she doesn't gain any control or power because he wants to remain in control.

It happens to so many women out there world-wide and they all stay in silence... some women stay due to religious beliefs, they made their vow to their spouse for better or for worse. They live daily walking on eggshells in hopes that day will be a good day for them, and they will not have to go to bed crying, putting ice on their black eye or feeling degraded.

I will say, that when I was married, and my husband began to abuse me physically or mentally, I would have left. My daughters never would have deserved to live in that kind of environment, and I always do my best to set an example for them, what kind of mother would I be if I stayed in a relationship like that where it was considered "okay" to be beaten up? I certainly wouldn't want my daughters staying in something like that, they know they are worth more. I tried to set an example as the strong willed type of woman I would want my daughters to be, to show them that it is okay to be independent, beautiful and smart and you can still be respected.
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Paprika
06-28-2012, 06:38 AM
Most women I know in this day and age will leave their husbands coz they feel he is not giving her everything she wants let alone being abusive.

Nowadays the attitude is, "My way or the highway" Sorry if that sounds negative, but in all honesty I know more men putting up with mentally abusive wives than women putting up with physically abusive husbands.
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ardianto
06-28-2012, 08:44 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Paprika
Most women I know in this day and age will leave their husbands coz they feel he is not giving her everything she wants let alone being abusive.

Nowadays the attitude is, "My way or the highway" Sorry if that sounds negative, but in all honesty I know more men putting up with mentally abusive wives than women putting up with physically abusive husbands.
I will not deny it, but I need to add a note: This is happen only in certain communities, and based on dominant mindset in those communities.
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sofiap
06-28-2012, 11:17 AM
I don't think men can really understand the level of abuse a woman goes through,unless they have witnessed it first hand,or understand Abuse such as that. Abuse at work,or family members is something we can not compare with abuse within the homes. Yes i agree the challenges we have with other people indeed does test us and allows us to be better people,Alhumduillah. It teaches us tolerance, patience,of course,and pushes us towards Allaah in many ways,Alhumdulilah. But what we forget the one who is unjust is in fact in sin[unless one amends his/her way,and repents]any circumstances which holds injustice is going against the Creator and humanity itself. I am currently involved with a wonderful lady,who tried to give up her life, due to her circumstances several times, because she felt trapped, taking constant abuse,and mental abuse is very bad,without going to any details,trust me,Its very aharsh. A spouse is a person who has vowed to take care of you,the one who is to Protect you. As Allaah is Our witness, People don't understand Islam,and will twist ayats etc..to also take advantage of thier position. Allah says not to take HIs ayats as jest, this is what is going on in the muslim community.

Mankind[both genders] who hasn't reached a certain level of awareness/conciousness will look at ways to justify their negative methods, doesn't matter what belief they hold,where as the good man will always look at a peaceful way of always resolving issues, and one who looks within himself first to detect the blame/fault with fairness and justice and always ready to admit fault.
I really do believe that more needs to be done by our community elders,and those who hold positions of influence to tackle sensitive issues in a more wholesome way, to help first solve the problems if that is what the couples mutually want. Somtimes when information is given,it has no disregard how it can or will effect people in a negative way. Depth is a thing that should not be ignored. Islam is very just and fair deen,and holds both parties accountable. Islam was not created just for the purpose of man,but mankind[and the nation of jin ofcourse] “Thebelieving men and believing women are allies of one another. They enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong and establish prayer and give zakāh and obeyAllāhand His Messenger. Those –Allāhwill have mercy upon them." (Tawbah: 71) We can do our part by reminding the right and forbiding wrong,insha Allaah..May Allaah shows us our wrongdoings,and give us the understanding of how we can apply His Wisdom.
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sofiap
06-28-2012, 11:27 AM
* Islam was not created for the purpose for man to indulge in HIS wants,disregarding the other gender,but to look to eachother with mercy, and to bring the best in eachother,and bring eachother towards Allaah*
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ardianto
06-28-2012, 12:10 PM
Calm down, sister sofiap, calm down. :)

I have been married for almost 18 years and never beat my wife. And there are many husbands in the world who never beat their wives too. I believe brothers here are type of men like this.
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sofiap
06-29-2012, 11:04 PM
when wrong and truth is being exposed why should i calm down..? is it ok for the woman to suffer in silence? go to the ladies shelters,and see what the real stories are, and you will come out feeling physically sick,..Truthful maybe to the bone? I haven't suggested all men,so please do not take it personal,it is meant for those whose mentality maybe have traits, there understandings needs to change,if you understood what women have been through,one would not even be saying calm..lol.but sister we are doing our bit to keep our women safe, by educating ourselves and others...its seems everytime im telling the truth someone wishes to calm me down..:pi too have been married for 21 years,i haven't been abused,but it upsets me when other sisters are suffering, and men think that abusers will boast about their injustice? Im not talking about a slap here and there. Attitudes to hush allows the continuation of abuse in homes, women are trapped,i am upset for my sisters,so i will not apologise for this, We should be firm against brutality,just because brother you are not a abuser,does not lessen the urgency for it to be addressed, good for you and i pray Allaah blesses your marriage further 18 years and more insha Allaah..why do ladies get hushed,when it effects us? . no one wants to know the ugly realities of the world of a woman..I will not not speak up about this,as Allaah tells us to speak against injustice,and those ladies who are being abused their confidence is not built like mine and yours,we really need to look at truth and not stick our heads in the sand...please go to the shelters and meet these sisters..
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sofiap
06-29-2012, 11:30 PM
:hmm:And i thought i was being gentle by mentioning both sexes will be accountable...:statisfie The reality is men too are victims to abuse, not at the same level as some of these ladies,but there are smaller incidents of this,and i would speak out for them too,fight for them too. Islam gives tenderness,fairness and justice that this worlds needed and needs. I'm not suggesting its islam is at fault. I know enough to know this,:)but it is the lack of correct education for our people and we shouldn't be afraid to talk about the issues, and try to make a difference by Allaahs grace..
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patientgrace
06-30-2012, 02:20 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Paprika
Most women I know in this day and age will leave their husbands coz they feel he is not giving her everything she wants let alone being abusive.

Nowadays the attitude is, "My way or the highway" Sorry if that sounds negative, but in all honesty I know more men putting up with mentally abusive wives than women putting up with physically abusive husbands.
I can agree with you in some of your posts. I believe it is because so many women these days have become more independent and think that anything implying that they cannot do something is considered "sexist". Women want to feel that they have just as much right and power as any man... I know plenty of women that brag about how they "wear the pants" in their relationship. In all reality, I believe that a wife should be submitting to her husband and a man should be the spiritual leader and rock of the family/household. In another stand point, with the younger generation of young adults/teenagers, they are not being raised to fully understand how good husbands and wives should "act", and their values are just so not what they used to be, and I think it is because many parents have become lazy.

If women get the attitude that it is their way or the highway, then I guess in some ways it can lead the man to feel incompetent and not like he is the "man of the house". I have a friend who would constantly bark orders at her husband and never said a please or thank you to him. She had said "its his job, a happy wife is a happy life"... he would cater to her every demand! We were at a dinner one evening and I actually got embarrassed for her. I would never in a million years ever think about talking to my spouse in that manner! Then she persisted to "joke" about how he was useless and how if he wanted "it" (sex) later, then he better remember who was the boss!

I am not advocating that all women are like this, but with your topic women being abusive to men as well, I definitely can see it. I was just raised with mutual respect, common courtesy and a man that is the leader of the house in all ways. Men and women both get physically and verbally abused, you just do not hear it from men as much because I feel they feel a bit embarrassed to admit that they are "allowing" their wives to dominate them.
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CosmicPathos
06-30-2012, 02:37 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by sofiap
not at the same level as some of these ladies
this discredits your authority and you cannot be taken seriously anymore.

salam.
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ardianto
06-30-2012, 03:34 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by sofiap
when wrong and truth is being exposed why should i calm down..?
Of course you should calm down. If you could not calm down, you would lost your self control and you would not be able to help the abused wives.

When an abused wife come to you, let her cry. But then tell her to calm down, and bring her to institution or people who capable to handle domestic violence case. Notice the helper in the ladies shelter. Do they look emotional? or remain calm in helping the domestic violence victim?. It's very important to remain calm when you help a victim.

I know what and how domestic violence is.
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ardianto
06-30-2012, 01:11 PM
One day, two cars stopped in front of my office. They were involved in light traffic accident and got light damage. One was driven by a man about 35, one was driven by a woman about 40. They quarreled and blamed each other.

I approached them and suddenly I saw the man raised his hand, intends to beat the woman. But I held his hand "No, bro, don't! she's a woman". Then I guided him back to his car, but the woman provoked him with abusive words. It made the man angry again, he turned to that woman again and ready to beat her, I held his hand again, and 'pushed' him back to his car. The woman provoked him with abusive word again. But I told him "let me handle it". Then I walked to that woman, looked into her eyes and shout "go home..!!!". She look scared and left us.

Yes, verbally abusive women and wives are exist. But the right way to handle them is not physical abuse. There are other ways to handle women like this without men hit them.
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patientgrace
06-30-2012, 03:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ardianto
One day, two cars stopped in front of my office. They were involved in light traffic accident and got light damage. One was driven by a man about 35, one was driven by a woman about 40. They quarreled and blamed each other.

I approached them and suddenly I saw the man raised his hand, intends to beat the woman. But I held his hand "No, bro, don't! she's a woman". Then I guided him back to his car, but the woman provoked him with abusive words. It made the man angry again, he turned to that woman again and ready to beat her, I held his hand again, and 'pushed' him back to his car. The woman provoked him with abusive word again. But I told him "let me handle it". Then I walked to that woman, looked into her eyes and shout "go home..!!!". She look scared and left us.

Yes, verbally abusive women and wives are exist. But the right way to handle them is not physical abuse. There are other ways to handle women like this without men hit them.
I agree 100% that physical punishment is never the answer for men or women. There are many other productive ways to get your point across that do not require pushing, hitting, leaving bruises, or even yelling.
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ardianto
06-30-2012, 04:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by patientgrace
I agree 100% that physical punishment is never the answer for men or women. There are many other productive ways to get your point across that do not require pushing, hitting, leaving bruises, or even yelling.
I didn't have choice other than shout at her. She provoked and insulted that man with words that very rude. So, I must make her go before that man lose control and really beat her.

But I never shout like that to my wife. She was my close friend since we meet in grade 12 in high school. This was pure friendship. She had an abusive boyfriend who often abuse her verbally and sometime physically, but didn't really love her even didn't care of her. This is why she was close to me, not to her boyfriend. When she wanted to have something she always told me, and I bought everything that she want. Including when she wanted to get higher education. She chose to take one year computer course, and I paid the bill. She was coming from poor family while i am from middle class.

But like I have said, that was pure friendship. Later I meet another girl who I made me fell in love and want to marry her. But later this girl left me. That's happened after the girl who now become why wife could leave her abusive boyfriend. So, we made promise to marry each other. And her first request was, I should promise I would never abuse her. I still and always hold this promise.

:)
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sofiap
07-01-2012, 09:38 PM
again, and then trying to address it, receiving reactions from brothers who say they fear Allaah, how long are we going to stick our heads in the sand? I teach my obys about I was calm in the first one..lol, but passionate in the wrong being committed, again and treatment of women,im a other,its my job to instill in them the attquette,and how their dad behaves with me and me with him will given them directions in sha Allaah..

Denial is a big problem in our community. I have witnessed that muslim brothers like to ignore/deny these problems exist, may be because they feel it is how things should be . well your wrong…Allaah talks a lot about treating eachother with ‘kindness’ ,and to ‘protect’ one another, not to treat the wife as a slave to HIS desires, but rather to work together in mutual UNDERSTANDING AND LOVE.
It seems most born muslims need to refresh what islam is about and leave the culture that is against islam and harms the benefit of the community.. some men feel that women must have done something wrong to deserve the ‘punishment’, but the irony is that most problems begin because men withhold due rights of the wife which starts some hostility, so those men create the atmosphere, yes and women react, and then they are punished ,for whose inability? Sisters should not take unnecessary advantage of men as well as men should not take unnecessary advantage of women, Allaah warns us all about this kind of behaviour, about going past the limits set by Allaah in all part of our lives. “O ye who believe! Stand firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest you swerve, and if you distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted with all that you do” (4:136).brother you would have to understand the frustration..Allaah tell us about the act of two people in marriage.. “Among His signs is this, that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquility with them and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts): verily in that are signs for those who reflect” (30:21),

Any hooo I'm afraid that shelters help only those women who have the courage to make that first move. its really hard for them,as they fear,the husbands will find where they are,and what they will do then? Even divorce is made difficult for women by some men..Allah warns men of such nature And when you divorce women and they reach their prescribed time, then either retain them in good fellowship or set them free with liberality, and do not retain them for injury, so that you exceed the limits, and whoever does this, he indeed is unjust to his own soul; and do not take Allah’s communications for a mockery, and remember the favor of Allah upon you, and that which He has revealed to you of the Book and the Wisdom, admonishing you thereby; and be careful (of your duty to) Allah, and know that Allah is the Knower of all things.[2:231]If you fear a breach between them twain, appoint (two) arbiters, one from his family, and the other from hers; if they wish for agreement, Allah will cause their reconciliation: For Allah hath full knowledge, and is acquainted with all things. [4:35]

When women can not suffer any more damaged, they want out. The abuse over the years built resentment and hatred within the wife’s heart, love grows with love,not with mistreatment.. Too many are forced back in unhappy marriages, especially if kids are involved...if they both can build a relationship, Alhumduillah..
force should not be applied but good sincere advice should be given,...O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may Take away part of the dower ye have given them,-except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and Allah brings about through it a great deal of good.

Allah does not 'hate' divorce, as many believe, otherwise he would not allow such a thing. Divorce is a mercy, like wise is marriage, it is up to us not to misuse these mercys. Allaah warns us about transgressing limits, these warning are to both man and woman. We have been given clear solutions in the Quran, of how to conduct our affairs and steps are given to both parties, so that things are done is a civilised way. May Allah help us to cling to the Quran and its truth and and help us reject all that is contradictory, not matter how authentic it may seem…

again, and then trying to address it, receiving reactions from brothers who say they fear Allaah, how long are we going to stick our heads in the sand? I teach my obys about I was calm in the first one..lol, but passionate in the wrong being committed, again and treatment of women,im a other,its my job to instill in them the attquette,and how their dad behaves with me and me with him will given them directions in sha Allaah..

Denial is a big problem in our community. I have witnessed that muslim brothers like to ignore/deny these problems exist, may be because they feel it is how things should be . well your wrong…Allaah talks a lot about treating eachother with ‘kindness’ ,and to ‘protect’ one another, not to treat the wife as a slave to HIS desires, but rather to work together in mutual UNDERSTANDING AND LOVE.
It seems most born muslims need to refresh what islam is about and leave the culture that is against islam and harms the benefit of the community.. some men feel that women must have done something wrong to deserve the ‘punishment’, but the irony is that most problems begin because men withhold due rights of the wife which starts some hostility, so those men create the atmosphere, yes and women react, and then they are punished ,for whose inability? Sisters should not take unnecessary advantage of men as well as men should not take unnecessary advantage of women, Allaah warns us all about this kind of behaviour, about going past the limits set by Allaah in all part of our lives. “O ye who believe! Stand firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest you swerve, and if you distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted with all that you do” (4:136).brother you would have to understand the frustration..Allaah tell us about the act of two people in marriage.. “Among His signs is this, that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquility with them and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts): verily in that are signs for those who reflect” (30:21),

Any hooo I'm afraid that shelters help only those women who have the courage to make that first move. its really hard for them,as they fear,the husbands will find where they are,and what they will do then? Even divorce is made difficult for women by some men..Allah warns men of such nature And when you divorce women and they reach their prescribed time, then either retain them in good fellowship or set them free with liberality, and do not retain them for injury, so that you exceed the limits, and whoever does this, he indeed is unjust to his own soul; and do not take Allah’s communications for a mockery, and remember the favor of Allah upon you, and that which He has revealed to you of the Book and the Wisdom, admonishing you thereby; and be careful (of your duty to) Allah, and know that Allah is the Knower of all things.[2:231]If you fear a breach between them twain, appoint (two) arbiters, one from his family, and the other from hers; if they wish for agreement, Allah will cause their reconciliation: For Allah hath full knowledge, and is acquainted with all things. [4:35]

When women can not suffer any more damaged, they want out. The abuse over the years built resentment and hatred within the wife’s heart, love grows with love,not with mistreatment.. Too many are forced back in unhappy marriages, especially if kids are involved...if they both can build a relationship, Alhumduillah..
force should not be applied but good sincere advice should be given,...O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may Take away part of the dower ye have given them,-except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and Allah brings about through it a great deal of good.

Allah does not 'hate' divorce, as many believe, otherwise he would not allow such a thing. Divorce is a mercy, like wise is marriage, it is up to us not to misuse these mercys. Allaah warns us about transgressing limits, these warning are to both man and woman. We have been given clear solutions in the Quran, of how to conduct our affairs and steps are given to both parties, so that things are done is a civilised way. May Allah help us to cling to the Quran and its truth and wisdom
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sofiap
07-01-2012, 09:42 PM
sorry guys i was suppose to take fix the first part,oh well..:nervous:sorry for the long read..
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'Abd-al Latif
07-03-2012, 07:22 PM
InshaaAllah I'm going to reply to this thread when my Internet is back on (my Internet is currently unavailable).

And without having to make myself seem biased towards anyone, the saying that the most hated thing to Allah is divorce is a hadith, it is saheeh and it is found in Abu Dawood and other books.

There are also some misunderstandings in the last post which again I will address later.

Furthermore, it is not fair and just to demonise all brothers because of what some men do. There are some who fear Allah and are conscious of their duty towards their spouse so do not assume all brothers are abusive.

I am against abuse and mistreatment, i condemn it and speak against it. But I am of the belief of cause and effect: there is no smoke without a fire. Sometimes problems in marriage arise due ignorance of the Islamic rights from one or both spouses, culture, family or peer pressure, immaturity, lack of commitment and many other problems. I do not place the entire blame to either gender but a combination of mounting problems from both ends causes problems that sometimes leads to violence.

Whatever the case, do not assume one gender is the cause of all the problems.
Reply

Insaanah
07-03-2012, 07:44 PM
:sl:

Regarding the hadeeth:

format_quote Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif
the saying that the most hated thing to Allah is divorce is a hadith, it is saheeh and it is found in Abu Dawood and other books.
Some view it as da'eef (mursal). See here for more information: http://islamqa.info/en/ref/120761/divorce%20hated

And Allah knows best.
Reply

muslimah bird
07-03-2012, 07:57 PM
I think the right understanding of hadith is “ Most hated of the allowable things to Allaah is the divorce.”
Reply

'Abd-al Latif
07-03-2012, 08:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Insaanah
:sl:Regarding the hadeeth:Some view it as da'eef (mursal). See here for more information: http://islamqa.info/en/ref/120761/divorce%20hatedAnd Allah knows best.
:wasalamex

Even if some class it as weak, the meaning and what can be derived from this hadeeth is correct. Shaykh uthaymeen has also said this in the link you provided.

Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: It is narrated that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The most hated of permissible things to Allaah is divorce.” This hadeeth is not saheeh, but its meaning is sound: Allaah hates divorce, but He does not forbid it to His slaves, so as to make things easier for them. If there is a legitimate shar’i or regular reason for divorce, then it is permissible and depends on the likely outcome of keeping this woman as one's wife. If keeping her will lead to something that is contrary to sharee’ah which cannot be avoided except by divorcing her, such as if the woman is lacking in religious commitment or chastity, and the husband cannot set her straight, then in this case we say that it is better to divorce. But if there is no shar’i reason or ordinary reason, then it is better not to divorce, rather in that case divorce is makrooh.

Liqaa’aat al-baab il-Maftooh, no. 55, question no. 3
Reply

'Abd-al Latif
07-03-2012, 08:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by muslimah bird
I think the right understanding of hadith is “ Most hated of the allowable things to Allaah is the divorce.”
Yes. This is my point.
Reply

Rhubarb Tart
07-15-2012, 01:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
this discredits your authority and you cannot be taken seriously anymore.

salam.
Well it is true. More women die at the hands of male relative. Anyways, why are brothers being defensive? We are talking about minority of men who commit this crime, less than 2%?
Reply

Rhubarb Tart
07-15-2012, 01:17 PM
:sl:

List of help for people (UK):

Male Victims: Mankind Initiative: http://www.mankind.org.uk/

Emergency measures
In case of emergency, call 999 for police or an ambulance.
The websites and helplines below can offer help and advice on how to stay safe and how to get access to emergency refuge accommodation. They can also offer advice if you are worried about the safety of someone close to you.

National Domestic Violence Freephone Helpline
• To talk to someone in confidence for support, information or an emergency referral to temporary accommodation, contact the free 24 hour National Domestic Violence Helpline.
• Helpline: 0808 2000 247
• Website: www.nationaldomesticviolencehelpline.org.uk/

National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children (NSPCC)
A free, confidential service for anyone concerned about children at risk, including children themselves. The service offers counselling, information and advice.
• Helpline: 0808 800 5000
• Website: www.nspcc.org.uk

Northern Ireland Women’s Aid Domestic Violence Helpline
If you’re based in Northern Ireland and you need to talk to someone in confidence call the 24 hour helpline run by Women’s Aid, a voluntary organisation providing services for women and children in Northern Ireland.
• Helpline: 0800 917 1414
• Web: www.niwaf.org

Samaritans
Confidential support 24 hours a day for people who are experiencing distress or despair, and feelings that could lead to suicide.
• UK and Northern Ireland helpline: 08457 90 90 90
• Republic of Ireland helpline: 1850 60 90 90
• Website: www.samaritans.org.uk

Scottish Domestic Abuse Helpline
If you’re based in Scotland and you need to talk to someone in confidence call the 24 hour Domestic Abuse Helpline run by Scottish Women’s Aid, the lead organisation working towards the prevention of domestic abuse in Scotland.
• Helpline: 0800 027 1234
• Website: www.scottishwomensaid.org.uk

Wales Domestic Abuse Helpline
The national free support and information service for women, children and men in Wales who are experiencing or who have experienced abuse at the hands of someone close to them. To talk to someone in confidence, call the 24 hour helpline.
• Helpline: 0808 80 10 800
• Website: www.wdah.org

Nour
Due to very limited resources at Nour we are currently unable to provide a helpline directly to us and advise any one looking for help regarding domestic violence from an Islamic Advisor or Legal Advisor to use our Advisors Contact Form. However, we have managed to partner with the Muslim Community Helpline who you can contact if you require immediate help. The Muslim Community Helpline has been in operation since March 2007 and aims to provide a listening and emotional support service for members of the community. Please be sure to let them know you are coming from Nour and would specifically like help regarding domestic violence.
To contact the Muslim Community Helpline call:
0208 904 8193
0208 908 6715
Monday to Friday, 10am to 1pm

Male victims: 0808 801 0327 - free from landlines and mobile phones. We are open:
Monday - Friday 10am-1pm and 2pm-5pm

National Domestic Violence helpline
Helpline: 0808 200 0247 (24 hours)
Email: helpline@womensaid.org.uk (you will receive a response within 3 working days)
Website: www.nationaldomesticviolencehelpline.org.uk

The National Domestic Violence Helpline is a freephone 24 hour helpline which provides advice and support to women in England and can refer them to emergency accommodation.
The National Domestic Violence Helpline is run in partnership between Refuge and Women's Aid.

There are translation facilities if your first language is not English. The Helpline also offers BT Type talk for callers with hearing difficulties. The Helpline worker contacts the Type talk operator so that the caller can communicate through them.

Rights of Women
52 – 54 Featherstone Street
London
EC1Y 8RT
Family law advice line: 020 7251 6577 (Monday 11am-1pm; Tuesday and Wednesday 2pm-4pm and 7pm-9pm; Thursday 7pm-9pm; Friday 12 noon-2pm)
Criminal law advice line: 020 7251 8887 (Tuesday 11am-1pm; Thursday 2pm-4pm)
Immigration and asylum law advice line: 020 7490 7689 (Monday 2pm-4pm; Wednesday 11am-1pm)
Administration: 020 7251 6575
Fax: 020 7490 5377
E-mail: info@row.org.uk
Website: www.rightsofwomen.org.uk
Rights of Women is a voluntary organisation that runs legal advice telephone lines, offering confidential legal advice on domestic and sexual violence. Rights of Women produce free information sheets which can be downloaded from their website at www.rightsofwomen.org.uk

National Centre for Domestic Violence
Telephone: 0844 8044 999
Freephone: 08009 70 20 70
Minicom: 18001 08009 70 20 70
Fax: 0207 160 9383
Text: NCDV to 60777
Website: www.ncdv.org.uk
Advisers from NCDV are available 24 hours a day, every day of the year.
The National Centre for Domestic Violence (NCDV) offers a free service to help you get a court order to protect yourself if you're experiencing domestic violence. If you are eligible for legal aid, you will be helped by a qualified solicitor or referred to one near where you live. If you can't get legal aid, you will have to pay your own costs but you can be helped with paperwork. Depending on where you live, they may be able to support you at court.
Reply

Rhubarb Tart
07-15-2012, 01:36 PM
Help for Domestic violence: WORLDWIDE


Domestic, Family Violence Clearinghouse: National resource on issues in Australia
http://www.austdvclearinghouse.unsw.edu.au/

Contact us:
By email: Clearinghouse

By mail: Australian Domestic and Family Violence Clearinghouse
University of New South Wales
Sydney NSW 2052
By phone: (02) 9385 2990
Freecall 1800 75 33 82 (only from fixed phones in Australia)
By fax: (02) 9385 2993
In person at: University of New South Wales.
Please contact us in advance to arrange an appointment.


Clearinghouse staff

Administration Officer 02 9385 8116
Information Officer 02 9385 2990
Good Practice Officer 02 9385 3843
Librarian 02 9385 8115
Research Assistant 02 9385 2837
Senior Researcher 02 9385 8113
Director 02 9385 2991

EarthWords: EarthWords has domestic abuse information in over 60 languages
http://www.hotpeachpages.net/lang/index.html

European campaign against violence against women:
http://ec.europa.eu/old-address-ec.htm

US site for survivors with newsletter and message boards

http://www.eadv.net/

Based in the US, global campaigning group to end abuse in the home
http://www.futureswithoutviolence.org/

National organisation in New Zealand for 50 refuges around the country
http://www.womensrefuge.org.nz/
Crisisline: 0800 REFUGE or 0800 733 843
Phone us toll free from anywhere in New Zealand for information, advice and support about domestic violence as well as help in a crisis. We’re here to help you on this phone number 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Follow the simple steps to be put through to your local refuge on your touchtone or mobile phone. You will be automatically redirected to a female advocate in your region.
Auckland crisisline: (09) 378 1893
Phone us free from within the Auckland area for information, advice and support about domestic violence as well as help in a crisis. We’re here to help you on this phone number 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

Canadian website and online community offering a range of information on women's issues and a special section on violence against women
http://www.womensweb.ca/

Hotlines in Canadian:

Abused, missing, and exploited children
National Center for Missing Exploited Children 1-800-843-5678

Kids' Help Phone 1-800-668-6868

Youth & dating/domestic violence
Break the Cycle 1-888-988-8336

National Center for Victims of Crime
Dating Violence Resource Centre 1-800-FYI-CALL
1-800-394-2255

Domestic violence & battered women
National Domestic Violence Hotline 1-800-799-7233 or
1-800-787-3224 (TDD)

National Coalition Against Domestic Violence 1-303-839-1852

Resource Center on Domestic Violence, Child Protection and Custody 1-800-527-3223

Health Resource Center on Domestic Violence 1-888-792-2873

The Battered Women's Justice Project 1-800-903-0111

National Center for Victims of Crime
Dating Violence Resource Centre 1-800-FYI-CALL
1-800-394-2255

National Center for Victims of Crime
Stalking Resource Centre 1-800-FYI-CALL
1-800-394-2255

Sexual assault
National Sexual Assault Hotline 1-800-656-4673

Suicide
National (Suicide) Hopeline Network 1-800-784-2433


Organisation in Malaysia working to end violence against women
Call the WAO helpline:
+6 03 7956 3488
P.O.Box 493, Jalan Sultan
46760 Petaling Jaya
Selangor, Malaysia
Tel: +603 7957 5636 / +603 7957 0636
Fax: +603 7956 3237
Counselling Line: +603 7956 3488
Operating hours: Monday - Saturday 9:00 AM - 6:00 PM
Sunday Emergency only
E-mail: wao@po.jaring.my/ wao.general@yahoo.com.my
Reply

pipay
07-25-2012, 11:36 AM
Then what should a woman do if she wants to go away or divorce her man but her kids keep looking for the presence of their father?
Reply

Piru
07-25-2012, 12:57 PM
Salaam Alaykum.

It is great to see so many Muslims here recognizing that domestic violence is a problem. Especially Muslimas, as I think it is very important for women to stand up against such things.

But I have a question that I am confused over, doesn't Surah 4:34 permit husbands to use violence against their wives? In which case, according to Islamic Law, it is not domestic violence itself that is the issue, but excessive use of domestic violence. Is that correct?

Where in the Sunna does it explicitly state that the excessive use of domestic violence is forbidden?

Thanks.
Reply

cOsMiCiNtUiTiOn
07-25-2012, 07:25 PM
I want to know how many of the participants in this thread have themselves been beat, and i mean truly beat, like with a metal rod across your back or punched in the head? How many participants have been the person to beat another?

Having walked those shoes, I don't appreciate to see debates and arguments regarding a subject that is not only sensitive, but that most people have no knowledge about. Statistics? What a joke. These statistics come from the same people who push the feminist agenda, the same people who have taken it upon themselves to ruin the family unit and ruin society. Wake up folks. Women are always the victim aren't they? It takes two hands to clap!! I think I suffered more damage from the hogwash of information out there victimizing women, than I did from what I went through in my previous marriage.

format_quote Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif
But I am of the belief of cause and effect: there is no smoke without a fire. Sometimes problems in marriage arise due ignorance of the Islamic rights from one or both spouses, culture, family or peer pressure, immaturity, lack of commitment and many other problems. I do not place the entire blame to either gender but a combination of mounting problems from both ends causes problems that sometimes leads to violence.
^^ EXACTLY

Why do women endure it? Well, in my experience, same reason men endure the drama that comes with the situation. Because they are both committed, especially if there's children. For women it is a bit more difficult and different I must admit, and thats due to the corrupted society we have which is heedless. Shunning a divorced woman, or leave the divorcee or widow out there to rot when there's CHILDREN who need to be fathered. That is what woke me up the most, having to deal with people like this. As much as everyone knows it, nobody changes it. I finally met a man who is willing to step up to the plate, and may Allah reward him generously. Ameen. Muslims like that are few and far in between. In the times of the prophet (saw)no woman went unmarried, children shouldn't be raised fatherless or motherless simply because their parents couldn't make it work. They are the future of our society... but "what people think" matters most to this Ummah. A woman wouldn't have to deal with injustice and be forced into it (true injustice is rare folks) if she was secure, like women used to be back then.

You know, There's always two sides of the story and we are only shown the bruised up faces of women, but we sure don't get to see them mouth off every day for X amount of years do we? How do things get that bad? Well, you would have to live it to understand. It is all avoidable if one strives to get out of ignorance. READ THE QURAN, learn your islam!! Not just "your rights" But Islam in its entirety. Choose your spouses for the proper reasons, choose them for their Imaan and their taqwa. Men are quick to choose the pretty girl, and later come to find she is rather spoiled, disobedient or what have you. Women are quick to choose the guy with a fat wallet, later coming to find he has little to no knowledge of Islam and she isn't given her proper rights and so on....

This subject is hefty, and I recommend those who don't truly understand it to just leave it alone. Taking a woman to a shelter is a bad move, advising to call cops, is also a bad move. None of these places bring you to the Quran. None of these places put Allah first.

I apologize if my words are rather harsh, but, reality isn't sweet.


As far as this
format_quote Originally Posted by Piru
Salaam Alaykum.

It is great to see so many Muslims here recognizing that domestic violence is a problem. Especially Muslimas, as I think it is very important for women to stand up against such things.

But I have a question that I am confused over, doesn't Surah 4:34 permit husbands to use violence against their wives? In which case, according to Islamic Law, it is not domestic violence itself that is the issue, but excessive use of domestic violence. Is that correct?

Where in the Sunna does it explicitly state that the excessive use of domestic violence is forbidden?

Thanks.
Please read this in its entirety and don't just skim through it. If you truly want to understand that which you are questioning, you should take the time to read it, it is a good place to start. Insha Allah .

The Surah You speak of is Surah An-Nisa 4:34:

Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.


"As for those women on whose part you fear nushuz..." Before we go any further with the translation, it is important to explain the meaning of the key word nushuz. The literal meaning of the word is "rebellion". But rebellion against whom and in what sense? We should certainly not think of this in terms the rebellion of the ruled against a ruler in a sultanate or dictatorship and conclude that it consists of the wife disobeying some of the husband's commands. This is because the same word nushuz is used in case of a husband in verse 128 of the same
surah 4, where it is said: "If a woman fears nushuz on her husband's part..." So nushuz is something that can be feared by the husband on the wife's part or by the wife on her husband's part. It cannot therefore be understood in terms of the ruler-ruled relationship. To correctly understand the meaning of the word, it must be noted that both in the verse under consideration and in verse 128 the reference to nushuz is followed by a reference to the break-up of the marriage (see vv. 35, 130). If this context is kept in mind, then it becomes evident that nushuz means the type of behaviour on the part of the husband or the wife which is so disturbing for the other that their living together becomes difficult.

Now the behaviour of a marriage partner can become disturbing for the other in one of the following two ways:

1) There is no ill-will on the part of the offending party. It is simply because of some incompatibility between the two or the failure on the part of one to understand the other that one of them finds some aspect of the other's behaviour disturbing.
2) One partner knowingly behaves or continues to behave in a way which seriously disturbs the other partner. In this case there is obviously an ill-will on the part of the first partner towards the second.


Nushuz is only this second type of behaviour, for only a deliberate ill-conduct based on ill-will can be described as "rebellion".

There is also a measure of relativeness about nushuz in the sense that what constitutes nushuz in the eyes of one person may not be so viewed by another. For this reason, the judgment that one's spouse has been guilty of nushuz is partly a subjective and personal one. That is why the verse says: "If you fear nushuz..." instead of for example, "if you find nushuz...". In the Holy Qur'an "fearing" signifies subjective but certain, knowledge or judgment about something.

In short, nushuz is a behaviour on the part of one marriage partner which comes out of ill-will and seriously disturbs the other partner.

Let us now proceed further with the verse and see what does it suggest in case of "those women on whose part you fear nushuz".(3) Three steps are recommended: "Admonish them (first), (next) separate them in beds (and last) beat them."

When there is no ill-will on the part of the wife towards the husband and he finds her behaviour hard to live with, he can, of course, divorce her. But marriage difficulties often start with a stage when neither partner really wants a break-up of the marriage and yet, at least from the point of view of one of the partners, the situation is unacceptable. The three steps suggested in the verse pertain to such circumstances.

"Admonish them". In this step the husband can say a great variety of things to the wife. He can bring to her attention some relevant teachings from the Qur'an and Hadith. He can remind her of the adverse effects of a possible break-up of marriage onall concerned - she herself, the children, if any, and he himself. Such admonition however, will be effective only if the husband has a good character, at least in comparison with the wife. Otherwise, the wife can say to him, either in her heart or aloud, "look who is talking".

The husband must practice what he preaches to his wife, for the Qur'an condemns preaching to others what we do not practice ourselves (2:44).

"Separate them in beds". There is a lot that a husband can achieve by talking to the wife in the right way. But if he fails, he should try separating the wife in bed and take other steps that go with such an action, e.g. avoiding to talk to her. If there had ever been any love between the two, this separation while living together, may help that love to return or come to the forefront. The wife may, as a result, become more willing to change her ways and the husband too may begin to see some of the things in a different light. For this suggestion of separation to work it is clear that the husband should have sufficient control over his sexual urges. For, otherwise he may be driven to end the separation in bed before it had any positive effect on the wife.

"Beat them". If even separation fails to work, then it is suggested that men use beating. To this suggestion of the Holy Qur'anthere have been two extreme reactions on the part of some Muslims. The first reaction is being apologetic or ashamed of the suggestion. The second is to use it as a justification for indulging in habitual wife battering. Needless to say that both these reactions are wrong. The Quran as we believe is the word of God and is thus every word in it is full of wisdom and love. To be apologetic about any part of the Quran is to lack both knowledge and faith. As for the second response, the suggestion to use beating is made specifically to deal with nushuz on the part of the wife, that is, to deal with her deliberately nasty behaviour that poses a threat to the marriage. Beating is to be done after due admonition and separation in beds and therefore by husbands who have some moral standards and have sufficient control over their sexual passions. Moreover, this beating is not to go on and on but is to be tried as a last step to save the marriage. Once it is clear that it is not working it is to be abandoned in favour of some other steps involving relatives of the husband and the wife mentioned in the next verse (4:35). There is therefore, absolutely no license here for the type of regular and continual wife beating that goes on in some homes, where each time the husband is angry with his wife or with someone else he turns against her and beats her up. In most such cases, the husband has no moral superiority over the wife: the only rule of Shariah that he cares about is this suggestion about beating. He also does not have the kind of control over his sexual passions needed to separate the wife in bed and often beats her the day before or the day after making love to her, an action specifically condemned by the Prophet. (4)

In regard to the suggestion about beating, the following further points should also be noted:

a) According to some traditions the Prophet said in his famous and well-attended speech on the occasion of his farewell pilgrimage that the beating done according to the present verse should be ghayr mubarrih, i.e. in such a way that it should not cause injury, bruise or serious hurt. On this basis some scholars like Tabari and Razi say even that it should be largely symbolic and should be administered "with a folded scarf" or "with a miswak or some such thing". However, to be effective in its purpose of shaking the wife out of her nasty mood it is important that it should provide an energetic demonstration of the anger, frustration and love of the husband. In other words, it should neither seriously hurt the wife nor reduce it to a set of meaningless motions devoid of emotions.

b) The wife has no religious obligation to take the beating. She can ask for and get divorce any time. The suggestion applies only in the case when the husband is seriously disturbed by a prolonged nasty behaviour on the part of the wife but neither he nor the wife is as yet seriously thinking of breaking up.

c) If the husband beats a wife without respecting the limits set down by the Quran and Hadith, then she can take him to court and if ruled in favor has the right to apply the law of retaliation
and beat the husband as he beat her.

d) Some fuqaha (Muslim jurists) are of the opinion that beating is permissible but not advisable. They base their view on the fact that the Prophet intensely disliked the action. But to say that beating is only permissible but never advisable is to say that there is never any good in it but the husband can nevertheless resort to it if he wants to; in other words he can beat up his wife without any good reason. This, however, is a view that cannot possibly be attributed to the Book of God. We can expect theHoly Qur'an to mention beating only if there was some wisdom in that mention. Now there are two possible points of wisdom in the mention. First, the beating done within the limits defined by the Qur'an may indeed bring the husband and wife to some kind of understanding. This is not because of the pain involved, which in any case cannot be too much if the guidance in the Quran and Hadith are to be observed. Rather, the husband and wife may come closer together after beating because of the emotions involved. The wife may experience the depth of hurt and disturbance her nushuz is causing and if there is any love left among them may decide for that reason to change her conduct. It seems from observations of human behaviour know that a show of male physical energy can sometimes bring a woman out of a prolonged bad mood (5) even though this energy may be seemingly directed against her in the form of angry words or a slap, provided in this manifestation of energy there is an undercurrent of love and desire for the woman and no real harm is done to the woman. In the situation with which the present verse is dealing, it is understood that in his heart the husband does have some love and desire for the wife. For, he has the option of divorcing her but he is not taking that option. Of course, there are husbands who neither love their wives nor divorce them, but keep them to punish them or exploit them. But we are not dealing with this situation here, since the assumption is that ill-will (nushuz) is from the wife's side. As for the argument that the Prophet intensely disliked beating, we can say that his intense dislike was for the type of beating done outside the limits set down by God. Second, the mention of beating may have the wisdom, ironically, to protect wives against what is called wife battering. The Quran does not always combat undesirable behavior by legal prohibition but by some other means. Experience also shows that legal prohibition of an action may not always be the most effective method to stop it. The Quran by requiring that before any beating there should be admonishing and separation of beds is providing a more effective measure against wife battering, since battering is the result of

uncontrollable anger or aggression and this anger or aggression can be tamed during admonishing and separation of beds. No statistics exist, but I feel confident that if we research the behavior of men in different religious groups over a long enough period and a vast enough area of the globe, we will find that the incidents of cases of wife battering and other forms of cruelty to women have been less, both in terms of numbers and seriousness, among Muslims than in other groups.

"But if they obey you, then seek nothing against them". Here obey means that the wife accepts the husband's fair and justified demands or expectations. "Seek nothing against them" means that after the wife has abandoned nushuz and returned to the decent way one partner in marriage should behave towards the other, the husband should forgive and forget the past and start a new page.

"Behold, God is most high and great". These words are meant for both the husband and the wife. Above them both is God in whose name they were joined in marriage. The husband should not forget that the greater physical strength and the superior earning power which give him a certain advantage in marriage comes from God. He should not, therefore, try to push this advantage to unjustified limits. In particular, he should not expect to be the lord and master of the wife.

At the same time the wife should realize that her nasty behaviour is causing a lot of unhappiness to all the family, to herself, to the husband and to the children and other close relatives. She cannot do this to the near ones without displeasing God and without paying for it in some way.




- cOsMiC
Reply

Rhubarb Tart
07-25-2012, 11:57 PM
Salam

There's always two sides of the story and we are only shown the bruised up faces of women, but we sure don't get to see them mouth off every day for X amount of years do we?
huh? WOW
Let me think? Some mouthing off Vs. someone beating another human being? Who would people rather have a cup of tea with?

She cannot do this to the near ones without displeasing God and without paying for it in some way.
Disgusting much no?




I want to know how many of the participants in this thread have themselves been beat, and i mean truly beat, like with a metal rod across your back or punched in the head? How many participants have been the person to beat another?
I have.

We would use the term “cause and effect” if a stranger beat someone in the street but we seem to think it OKAY to use that term for domestic violence. To me it is simple, if you are an adult; you are responsible enough to keep your anger intact. If not? You should suffer the same consequence as an idiot that causes grievous bodily harm in the street whether you are a man or woman. Simple

Anywho I thought this topic was finished? I posted several organisation for both women and men. End of
Reply

Rhubarb Tart
07-26-2012, 12:05 AM
This subject is hefty, and I recommend those who don't truly understand it to just leave it alone. Taking a woman to a shelter is a bad move, advising to call cops, is also a bad move. None of these places bring you to the Quran. None of these places put Allah first.
I don’t know about you but if someone life is at risks, I would advice them to call the cops, unless you are in favour of them being severely damaged or dead.

please admin close this thread. Above post is inflammatory.
Reply

جوري
07-26-2012, 02:52 AM
RasulAllah P.B.U.H. Said:
"Never beat God's handmaidens."
"Could any of you beat your wife as he would a slave, and then lie with her in the evening?"

at any rate I don't recommend anyone air out their dirty laundry to make a point.
Men also don't have 'superior earning abilities' I know many sisters who support their husbands financially. One in particular whose husband was cheating on and while 7 months pregnant was kicking her in her belly until her placenta separated--you can imagine the rest.
something to reflect on in shaa Allah.
Reply

cOsMiCiNtUiTiOn
07-26-2012, 04:51 AM
Both of you seem to always want to win an argument constantly without taking time to truly reflect on what is being said, and its precisely that kind of behavior and attitude that bring about these kinds of situations. Bluebell, if you read carefully at what I posted, you'd see that the quote u posted was mentioned. Unfortunately there are many severe cases, but rather than focus just on the event, realize what it takes to create a situation like that, and most importantly how to prevent being in that position.

So, according to you, we are to reflect upon a very brief story told by you, yet wasn't lived by you, but sharing a perspective which comes from personal experience first hand is dirty laundry? ^o) (no details or specific stories being given here) Sometimes personal experiences have to be shared, it's not necessarily dirty laundry. Without experience how do we learn ? One shouldn't wait to learn from their own mistakes, rather learn from others' mistakes. Had I not lived it, I'd probably be chiming in like the rest of you posting all sorts of horrible stories, articles and the whole shabang. Before it happened to me, I read about plenty of cases and felt sorry for the women (lifetime movies anyone?) and was quite big on women's rights etc. When you actually face it though, its' a totally different ball park. What you know, the stories that your friends have told you will always be one sided, unless you sat down with both parties, even then you didn't live their marriage, so I would refrain from putting stories like that out there when you don't know the entire situation. The same goes for stories brought to us by the media. This is very personal and sensitive stuff, and majority if not all "domestic abuse" propaganda is shared to paint men out to be unworthy of respect.

I mean just look at what you typed up... "men don't have superior earning abilities, I know many sister who support their husbands. " Implying that women can do just as men can.. which isn't the case. Men may not have a superior ability, but they DO have a role which is not equal to the woman's. Where's the respect for their God given position?

Allah clearly said in the Quran Surah An-Nisa:

Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women).

Men are supporters of wives because God gave some of them an advantage over others and because they spent of their wealth.

Men are the support of women as God gives some more means than others, and because they spend of their wealth (to provide for them).

As far as your friend is concerned, we don't know her story, we don't know how she got in that situation, why she is maintaining or supporting her husband. It's very one sided and wrong of you to share something like that and it can create fitnah for some people. THAT should be reflected upon IMO.

I shared what I did because I get tired of seeing lopsided information, especially in regards to women. Just to be clear, I not once said beating a woman is correct, quite the contrary if my entire post is read. I felt it would be fair to share a different perspective directly from a woman who's actually lived it, not from some third party. I don't feel I am in disagreement with the fact that abuse is wrong, not at all. Every experience we go through is an opportunity to grow, one has to reflect though and stop playing victim. Instead of complaining,throwing pitty parties, and wanting to punish others for their actions, one can actually stop to think "hey uhm, what could I have done to prevent that painful experience?" because in the end, you can only change yourself. You all can pick apart my post, and argue to your heart's content. If somebody out there read this and benefited from it, then the purpose of me posting all of this was served. :)

- cOsMiC
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Aprender
07-26-2012, 05:05 AM
Enough already. It's Ramadan.
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جوري
07-26-2012, 05:23 AM
I don't write to 'win an argument' least of which in the holy month. I have no desire to undo my fast nor have I the desire to shut off common sense or learn of any subject especially to do with Uloom Al-Quran or fiqh from the net based on opinion neither in the original tongue of the prophet nor at the hands of scholars--Be that as it may you dislike statistics and dislike stories so what would be satisfactory to you in this case? When you travel do you grab a bunch of underwear a bunch of dresses and a bunch of toiletries in your hand and run with them or do you pack em in a suitcase? Well in a nutshell that's what statics are - information collected put in one package and an idea of content in numbers is sorted. It's not meant to impart an opinion rather numbers which at the end of the day parlay into dollars and cents. how much this costs healthcare not who's lying in a ditch hurt or dead!
I am not going to discuss any cases with you whether I had been present or not as it is irrelevant and disrespectful to said individuals - If I honestly believed that this would turn out anything but fodder for your scrutinizing eyes and your criticism I'd have shared cases presented to me that compass everything from 13 year old rape victims to 78 year old Muslim woman being slapped around by her allegedly Muslim son who goes off gets drunk every night opens credit cards in her name and racks up $32000 worth of debt and generally terrifies her that's just one rotation in FP.
It's as if you want their most naked and most raw moments aired out for your satisfaction and your criticism and also shows lack of understanding to Islamic fiqh and jurisprudence which is something I see happening frequently in some of your posts. This is not an attack on your person but surely you conceive that your opinion isn't representative of the whole or at times even Islamic. We are trying to level some of what you write.That's all and again I ask forgiveness if my words offend.
I mean you no ill will and genuinely happy you found someone to pay for your living expenses and raise your child and in shaa Allah treats you right!I hate to have to constantly walk on egg shells to undo some of the damage done on these threads. Do please consider that the advise or insight you're passing out is representative of your personal experience, your understanding and your vision for your own life and not necessarily representative of Islam/women/medicine/reality etc. Nor are we going around accusing men of being devils or angels. But ignoring this with brusque and dismissive style won't help anyone. Generally writing isn't helpful anyway especially when we look at victims as the guilty party - Not that you're not entitled to those opinions just that they need to be tempered by another lens.
:w:
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جوري
07-26-2012, 05:23 AM
repeat post pls remove
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Deengal
07-26-2012, 08:27 AM
I think Domestic Violence is absolutely inappropriate! The Prophet (PBUH) never beat his wife and He is an example to all of us on how we should live our lives.
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Rhubarb Tart
07-26-2012, 08:45 AM
[QUOTE]
format_quote Originally Posted by cOsMiCiNtUiTiOn
Both of you seem to always want to win an argument constantly without taking time to truly reflect on what is being said, and its precisely that kind of behavior and attitude that bring about these kinds of situations. QUOTE]
You seem to jump the gun, Ive read everything you have written. So what does mouthy women got to do with Domestic violence? Most scholars deal with this swiftly, if you rasie your hands at another human being, you are always at fault. They dont look for excuses and they dont care if the woman is mouthy. I had personal experience of scholar being swift and granted divorce.


Secondly, most of your posts consist of this...... oh I was a lonely woman and that is divorced and some dude came to rescue me. Oh brothers, look at me, ONCE again I am here to wave the flag for you! We women are mouthy and I am sick of seeing bruised women! Look at me; I am here to bash my female population!

Sorry, I won’t allow act like a fool in this thread!

No need to put the view of the other side, most brothers spoke of domestic violence towards men which I agree with. So being mouthy is completely irrelevant. I will put it simply to you that you are blaming the victims.

Secondly, the fact men are the breadwinners’ makes women make more vulnerable. And the fact you told them to read the Quran and never go to the police or shelter (there are Muslim shelter and some Mosque have shelters too) when they are beaten by husband is frankly dangerous and provocative. Your views are not Islamic and I haven’t heard or read a brother, scholar or anyone express idiotic and dangerous opinion.


Honestly, you deserve a SLAP across the face. If anyone is diverting the issue, it is you.
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GuestFellow
07-26-2012, 04:08 PM
[QUOTE=Rhubarb Tart;1535210]


You seem to jump the gun, Ive read everything you have written. So what does mouthy women got to do with Domestic violence?
Asslamu Aliakum,

If a wife continues to answer her husband back in a rude and inappropriate way, he may use physical force. I think by mouthy, you mean someone who is rude.

Most scholars deal with this swiftly, if you rasie your hands at another human being, you are always at fault. They dont look for excuses and they dont care if the woman is mouthy. I had personal experience of scholar being swift and granted divorce.
Yes, if a husband beats his wife, she can get a divorce. However, if she played a role in making her husband angry, then should she not do something to avoid angering people? For example, let's assume the wife was being rude to her husband on a regular basis. He snapped and hit her. In this case, the husband should not have lost her temper. The wife should not have been rude. So in this case, it's both are to blame.

Personally if I married a women who was rude/mouthy to me on a regular basis, I would divorce her and she can find another husband. The divorce will not have a significant impact on me, as I can always find another Muslim women.
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Alpha Dude
07-26-2012, 05:18 PM
Honestly, you deserve a SLAP across the face
Ironic.
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Rhubarb Tart
07-26-2012, 05:59 PM
[QUOTE=Tragic Typos;1535255]
format_quote Originally Posted by Rhubarb Tart

Asslamu Aliakum,

If a wife continues to answer her husband back in a rude and inappropriate way, he may use physical force. I think by mouthy, you mean someone who is rude.



Yes, if a husband beats his wife, she can get a divorce. However, if she played a role in making her husband angry, then should she not do something to avoid angering people? For example, let's assume the wife was being rude to her husband on a regular basis. He snapped and hit her. In this case, the husband should not have lost her temper. The wife should not have been rude. So in this case, it's both are to blame.

Personally if I married a women who was rude/mouthy to me on a regular basis, I would divorce her and she can find another husband. The divorce will not have a significant impact on me, as I can always find another Muslim women.
I am clearly not talking about a slap across th face. People snap, that is understandable. But to beat someone black and blue? And to do it on regularly basis? No, the person who beat another human being is entirely to blame! Repeated slaps, punching and kicking is completely wrong. The prophet (pbuh) and huge argument and never has he or his companions beat their wives black and blue. There other avenue walk away and get divorce. Cosmic clearly is talking about women that are beaten. As if they don't blame themselves already she telling them to look their own behaviour rather seeking justice. If someone was beaten in the street, would we tell them to look their own behaviour or would we advise them to report it to the police?

I was looking for Islamic site I went to last year and I can't find it. A man posted and ask the scholar to help me. He punched his second wife in the stomach (once), she was pregnant after an argument. He blamed on his first wife ( for stressing out and apparently cursed him), black magic and his second wife.

You know how the scholar responded? He called his actions disgraceful for three reasons:

She was woman
She was his wife.
She was pregnant with his child.

Now, the rules are quick simple. There is no excuse to beating another human being. We are not even allowed to beat animals let alone a human. Victims ( man, woman, children, parents ) for violence in their own homes always blame themselves. There is a line, beating someone can kill them. So why would you cross that line? Especially if you can walk away? You cross it, you need to be punished! Simple
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aamirsaab
07-26-2012, 06:05 PM
Time out everybody.
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