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جوري
03-21-2012, 02:18 AM
Is there a serial killer at work, committing racist crimes? Investigations are still in the early stages, but, with electoral campaigning for France’s presidency under way, murders in the southern cities of Toulouse and Montauban have plunged the country into fear and confusion.

euronews sought an expert’s opinion on the political impact. But first, here is a brief review of what happened, and France’s politicians reacted.
On Monday, three children and a teacher were killed in front of Ozar Hatora, a Jewish school in Toulouse. The bloodiest attack on the Jewish community in France in 30 years happened with presidential elections 34 days away.
The weapon used by the murderer, the scooter he rode and his deliberate method suggested links with the murders last week of three paratroopers in Montauban and Toulouse.
President Nicolas Sarkozy went to the school to offer his condolences.
Sarkozy said: “It seems obvious that the motivation here, attacking Jewish children and a teacher, was anti-semitic. Where our soldiers are concerned, two of them were Muslims and the third was from the Antilles. We don’t know the motive there, but we could think that racism and murderous insanity were linked.”
The candidate for the Socialist party, François Hollande, also went to Ozar Hatora.
Hollande said: “I had to be here to say to these families torn by murder, and to those at this Jewish school which was targeted, the depths to which anti-semitism has sunk. I also have to express my solidarity with the city of Toulouse, to say that it wasn’t a school, Jews, a city that have been affected by this, but all of France.”
The killings that shook the country also made their mark on the electoral campaign.
Third-placed candidate, according to surveys, Marine Le Pen of the Far Right said: “At times like this, politics stops; campaigning stops; there is no longer the right and the left. The people of France feel it in their heart.”
Campaigning is expected to resume sooner rather than later, against the shocking backdrop of the bloodshed.
Euronews spoke to Dominique Wolton, director of the French Institute of Communication Sciences, the CNRS, a noted specialist in the media and political communication, to ask for his opinion on the political effects of the murders.
Sophie Desjardin, euronews: Is what happened in Toulouse going to affect the presidential election campaign in France?
Dominique Wolton: We really don’t know. What’s certain is that there’s already been something positive: the unanimous reaction of all the candidates. That was essential, in the name of the Republic or democracy, firmly condemning the murders.
euronews: Will the subjects of recent discussion, apart from the economic crisis, be toned down?
Wolton: It’s not that things will be muted. It’s rather that verbal confrontation will become less violent, because we’re already in a country in crisis, in which a large part of the electorate does not feel involved, and so there is a threat of high abstention.
It’s not that clashes will be avoided but that people talk in terms that are too soft. There can be a very violent clash about theory, policy, ideology, on condition that we respect one another. In this campaign, that started out violently, with a risk of high abstention, I believe we’ll need to backtrack. So much the better if that brings mutual tolerance.
I think it’s all the more shocking for France that three big institutions are affected. First the army, since it began there – a centre of integration – then schools. They are the second factor of integration in our society. And also secularism, respect for all religions.
I think the strength of caring and the political and cultural reaction of the candidates goes much further than public opinion, because these three pillars of society are affected. In a way, that might make some people think about the importance of integration in our society, the weaknesses of our institutions. I think that’s an important lesson.
euronews: Do you think that politicians bear some responsibility, with the speeches they’ve made recently, sometimes quite forcefully, notably about immigration?
Wolton: No, we can’t talk about cause and effect. However, the problem for France, and also for Europe as a whole, is that we’re the most democratic part of the world, and when it comes to talking about immigration we see vocabulary being squeezed, and posturing, racism and populism, which do not go along with the great democratic mission that Europe wants to assign itself.
Immigrants become scapegoats, and that’s a tragic logic to follow. It’s not unusual that it brings a kind of verbal violence that we find in 18 of the 27 European Union countries.We are really at risk of Europe’s own values self-destructing.
euronews: We’ve seen a surge of intercommunal solidarity, a need to feel united. That will have to be sustained, which is difficult, is it not, in an election campaign where people are looking to create divisions?
Wolton: No, I think that the tragic event can serve to lay that question to rest. If the main religions show solidarity I think it will have to be heard for four or five days. That way, when the political mania starts up again, the tragic events will stay in people’s heads. Everyone today sees and knows everything, thanks to the media, and that forces politicians, religious forces and Europeans to be much more faithful to their values.

http://www.euronews.com/2012/03/20/t...er-the-french/
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جوري
03-21-2012, 02:19 AM
Funny thing is the cops that were killed were Muslim from a Morrocan background but no mention of that in mainstream media.. one newspaper actual went so far to speculate it was an 'angry terrorist Muslim'...

Sickos walhi in every sense of the word
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GodIsAll
03-21-2012, 03:05 AM
Alright!
No more BlueBell posts until tomorrow...
I am hoping to get SOME sleep tonight!
(Will reread during light of day)

Good night, friends!
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TrueStranger
03-21-2012, 03:13 AM
Did you see how crazy the Israeli officials went when an EU official placed Gaza children dying and the Toulouse murders in the same category.

Israel criticizes EU official for comparing France Jewish school shooting to Gaza children deaths

The European Union foreign policy chief drew criticism in Israel on Tuesday over what Israeli leaders said was her comparison of the killing of three children and a rabbi at a Jewish school in France with the deaths of children in the Gaza Strip.

Speaking at a conference on Palestinian refugees on Monday in Brussels, Catherine Ashton cited the tragedy of “young people who have been killed in all sorts of terrible circumstances.”

She then mentioned the Toulouse shooting earlier on Monday, along with a massacre last year in a Norway summer camp, a bus crash in Switzerland that killed 22 Belgian school children a week ago, the current violence in Syria and “what is happening in Gaza and in different parts of the world.”

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/03...ildren-deaths/
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جوري
03-21-2012, 03:22 AM
I heard yes.. Only they suffer aparently of course even the Muslims who died in this very shooting are refuse.. May Allah swt dam n them fi dounia wal'akhira
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TrueStranger
03-21-2012, 03:25 AM
Funny they can't even acknowledge the Muslims they kill unjustly, yet they expect the world to mourn for their dead.

Ameen.
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جوري
03-21-2012, 03:26 AM
I feel bad when kids die though it really bothers me alot..imsad
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GodIsAll
03-21-2012, 03:33 AM
Horrible and heart wrenching. No question.
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TrueStranger
03-21-2012, 03:56 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ßlµêßêll
I feel bad when kids die though it really bothers me alot..imsad
Same here. My neighbors 27 month year old son fell from the window right on the cement yesterday. An estimated 12 feet fall. The hardest part is that Wallahi he does not even have a single bruise, a single cut, a single scratch, and did not spill a drop of blood. He was taken to the hospital to check for internal bleeding, and there weren't any. Everyone is shocked and bewildered. Pure Miracle. Subhan"Allah. I'm still amazed.
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Cabdullahi
03-21-2012, 06:02 PM
A post by 'believenothing'

Flyermay doesn't get it. Or at least he pretends he doesn't get it. The truth and reality are stranger than fiction. If this guy was known for a while on a 'watchdog' terrorist list, he is probably an intelligence assassin of some sort. What logic does it take to come to that conclusion? Common ****ing sense considering the way the world works, the way that clandestine 'terrorism' works, the way the corrupted intelligence network works, and the way events have been carried out throughout the past few decades compared to the way they are reported in the media.

People need to ask critical questions after something like this and not take it at face value. Aside from the hasbara trolls constant bickering, anti-semitic smearing, spinning, and wrong remarks, I don't know who but one of them said they believed the media and trusted the assessment of the police. Well that says it all.

So this guy, he doesn't match the physical descriptions given for motorcycle man. His confession about killing as revenge for the Palestinian children killed daily makes no sense.

He isn't Palestinian. He's Algerian. Why did he kill those paratroopers? At least one of them was a Muslim.

The trolls were personally attacking everybody and believing it was a run-of-the-mill Nazi hate crime. Well it wasn't a Nazi. Or a hate crime. It was a 'terrorist' if you believe that BS story.

"Al Qaeda" aka the toilet. Al Qaeda DOES NOT EXIST. If you believe they do, you are a fool. There is no Al Qaeda. This was addressed several times in the past 11 years. It's a Western invention, probably by Rupert Murdoch. It's another word for 'terrorist' or probably more likely CIA/Mossad/MI5 clandestine assassins. It says his brother was an insurgent militant in Iraq. There you go. Those guys were Mossad Sayanim and some of them spoke Hebrew.

Remember, Israel is not a Jewish state, it is a TERRORIST state. Israel funds, trains, and participates in terrorist attacks around the globe. They utilize the intelligence network. They are the number one reason for instability in the middle east.

Look at the timing of this attack. France's election. Syria's problems which France are heavily tied up with. The whole Iran media distortion. And Palestine, which all this **** has just brushed to the side probably on purpose. While these events have gone on, Israel has been attacking Gaza.

There is also the recent events in Afghanistan. Maybe they'll try to link this to it somehow. I read somewhere this morning that he was one of the escaped "Al Qaeda" prisoners from Afghanistan. Oh really? And he was just under watch? Those escaped prisoners were a little bit suspicious too.

Look, the killer is a heartless and soulless machine. Nobody would chase kids down and shoot them at point blank range in the head "for the Palestinian children." Such a killer doesn't care about Palestinians or children or have any feelings whatsoever. Palestinians want nothing to do with that either.

How can you go from killing paratroopers to civilians? Civilians as targets is stupid. Military targets are more strategic and if you are attacking military targets, why would you attack civilian targets? You wouldn't. Plus, as I mentioned before, the Jewish victims were specifically hunted down. They were pre-targeted. All shot at point-blank range in the skull.

They are lying to us. This is not your man, nor is it your reason. Let the trolls say what they want. They have de-legitimized themselves with their personal attacks, lies, spins, distortions, delusions, and Zionists Jewish bias. They are establishment shills who support the status quo, the deceptive elite Jewish bankster globalization of the world under 'democracy'. I don't want democracy. I live in the USA, a constitutional republic. Your buddies stole my country and usurped my constitution. I don't recognize the Zionist Occupied Government in DC. I only play by their rules so I can live. But their time is running out. They can't even rely on their clandestine terrorists anymore. Make too many mistakes. Plus your guys' rhetoric has been outed and your tricks are well know. Arguing with us just makes us better at pointing out your lies. http://forum.davidicke.com/showpost....&postcount=457
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جوري
03-22-2012, 03:40 PM
they killed the 'suspect' in a standoff without trial.. convenient.. moral of the story you don't stand a chance as a Muslim and even if other Muslims are killed you're still the terrorist to blame and are anti-Semitic even if you yourself are a Semite because they said so and who are you to argue..
Hasbona Allah wa'ni3ma alwakeel
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aadil77
03-22-2012, 04:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by مهرة
Funny thing is the cops that were killed were Muslim from a Morrocan background but no mention of that in mainstream media.. one newspaper actual went so far to speculate it was an 'angry terrorist Muslim'...

Sickos walhi in every sense of the word
They were probably killed cause they'd been serving in afghanistan. The killer was a nutcase, so can't really blame him. End of.
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TrueStranger
03-22-2012, 04:20 PM
No one is giving the Muslim guy the "Mental Ill" Card.:exhausted
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Dagless
03-22-2012, 11:11 PM

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AKM
03-24-2012, 04:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
No one is giving the Muslim guy the "Mental Ill" Card.:exhausted
His brother says he's proud of him. I suppose he's mentally ill too, right? Or rather they both believe in a murderous and abominable ideology.
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جوري
03-24-2012, 07:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AKM
His brother says he's proud of him. I suppose he's mentally ill too, right? Or rather they both believe in a murderous and abominable ideology.
He's a Muslim so by nature it is their abominable ideology.. When the American ****s do it to sleeping children, automatically the number of casualties decreases as well the perpetrators in this case of course it is a lone crazy with a poor wife and a caring extended family and children too so in their case it is PTSD!

Thank God for your presence here to point that out!
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AKM
03-24-2012, 09:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by لميس
He's a Muslim so by nature it is their abominable ideology..
His ideology is that of radical, violent, religious extremism. Fortunately most Muslims don't follow this abominable ideology.

format_quote Originally Posted by لميس
When the American ****s do it to sleeping children, automatically the number of casualties decreases as well the perpetrators in this case of course it is a lone crazy with a poor wife and a caring extended family and children too so in their case it is PTSD!
Unfortunately it's true, there are many Americans who excuse their military's war crimes as there are many Muslims who excuse atrocities committed by other Muslims.
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جوري
03-24-2012, 09:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AKM
His ideology is that of radical, violent, religious extremism. Fortunately most Muslims don't follow this abominable ideology.
Oh I had no idea you were so connected, sat one and one with a man who was an 'alleged' suspect who got shot immediately by the cops with no evidence or trial.. You must have psychic abilities on top all your other admirable traits..



format_quote Originally Posted by AKM
Unfortunately it's true, there are many Americans who excuse their military's war crimes as there are many Muslims who excuse atrocities committed by other Muslims.
American and Israeli ****s and their poodles don't have to excuse what they have a carte blanche to commit by order of their commander and chief or does defending ones country by whatever means equal to war crimes in your book?
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TrueStranger
03-24-2012, 09:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AKM
His brother says he's proud of him. I suppose he's mentally ill too, right? Or rather they both believe in a murderous and abominable ideology.
I guess it runs in the family. Using Western media's logic, one has to be mentally ill to believe in murderous and abominable ideologies.
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AKM
03-24-2012, 10:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by لميس
Oh I had no idea you were so connected, sat one and one with a man who was an 'alleged' suspect who got shot immediately by the cops with no evidence or trial.. You must have psychic abilities on top all your other admirable traits..





American and Israeli ****s and their poodles don't have to excuse what they have a carte blanche to commit by order of their commander and chief or does defending ones country by whatever means equal to war crimes in your book?
Let's cut the BS, there is nothing you will believe about this case that comes from the French authorities and media, is there? You are sadly one of those people that will excuse, deny, cry conspiracy whenever one who you consider is from your side perpetrates an unspeakable act.
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Aprender
03-24-2012, 10:58 PM
And you might be one of those people who believe whatever the media tells you as well. As a journalist we loved to lie/tell half-truths to sell papers. Just saying. You have to question everything in this day and age.
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GuestFellow
03-24-2012, 11:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by لميس
On Monday, three children and a teacher were killed in front of Ozar Hatora, a Jewish school in Toulouse. The bloodiest attack on the Jewish community in France in 30 years happened with presidential elections 34 days away.
Salaam,

It is likely the attacks were focused on the Jewish community rather than some random civilians. So they were religiously/racially motivated in this case.

The weapon used by the murderer, the scooter he rode and his deliberate method suggested links with the murders last week of three paratroopers in Montauban and Toulouse.
I'm not entirely sure why he killed those paratroopers.


President Nicolas Sarkozy went to the school to offer his condolences.
I suspect he is using this event to score political points. If this is the case, then it is very sad for a public figure to gain popularity from the suffering of others.

Sarkozy said: “It seems obvious that the motivation here, attacking Jewish children and a teacher, was anti-semitic.
I guess Sarkozy was not paying attention in law school. No one is sure what he went on a rampage. It is likely the attack was aimed at Jewish people. [QUOTE]

Where our soldiers are concerned, two of them were Muslims and the third was from the Antilles. We don’t know the motive there, but we could think that racism and murderous insanity were linked.”
This is what causes doubt on the claim that the attacks were motivated by hatred of Jews.

euronews: Do you think that politicians bear some responsibility, with the speeches they’ve made recently, sometimes quite forcefully, notably about immigration?
Very likely in my opinion.

Wolton: No, we can’t talk about cause and effect.
Why not? When someone commits a crime, you need to find out why they did it in the first place. Hopefully, then the police will be able to tackle the root cause of the crime and prevent it happening in the future.

Overall, I would not be surprised if the intelligence agencies were involved. Annie Machon had said, there was an explosion near an Israeli Embassy in the UK. Two Palestinians were falsely accused, arrested, convicted of a crime they did not commit and even though it has been acknowledged they were not behind the plot, they are still in prison. The explosion near the Israeli Embassy gained sympathy for Jewish people, made Palestinians look like the enemies and the Embassy got greater protection. Annie Machon suspected the Mossad were involved. Annie Machon worked for the MI5 until she decided reveal the agency secrets. Anyway, the point is, intelligence agencies may have been involved.


format_quote Originally Posted by لميس
Funny thing is the cops that were killed were Muslim from a Morrocan background but no mention of that in mainstream media.. one newspaper actual went so far to speculate it was an 'angry terrorist Muslim'...
Well that's the mainstream media for yeah. They want publicity, which is often achieved by using explosive vocabulary to gain knee-jerk reactions from the public.


format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
Did you see how crazy the Israeli officials went when an EU official placed Gaza children dying and the Toulouse murders in the same category.
I would have thrown a tomato at those Israeli officials and tell them to shut up. :/

On a serious note, Israeli politicians are not known to be sane.

Overall, it is really sad what has happened and I hope a thorough investigation will reveal what exactly happened. I doubt this boy could gave done all of this by himself. Whoever was involved ought to be shot.
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جوري
03-25-2012, 12:14 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by AKM
Let's cut the BS,
Yes pretty please do cut the BS!
there is nothing you will believe about this case that comes from the French authorities and media, is there?
Why would I? Because their track record for pointing out ' Al-Qaeda terrorists' has been immaculate thus far?
You are sadly one of those people that will excuse, deny, cry conspiracy whenever one who you consider is from your side perpetrates an unspeakable act.
Like I said thank God for your presence here, to share all your psychic abilities and that venerable wisdom!

best,
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جوري
03-25-2012, 12:17 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aprender
And you might be one of those people who believe whatever the media tells you as well. As a journalist we loved to lie/tell half-truths to sell papers. Just saying. You have to question everything in this day and age.
It is actually very convenient to find a 'Muhammad' to pin the crimes on and kill and I don't they'd have had it any other way!

:w:
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Abz2000
03-25-2012, 12:18 AM
this guy had apparently applied for a job in the french army and was refused due to his past record,
so it wouldn't be far fetched to assume he'd be into weapons anyway, and may have had a bunch of illegal ones which could take him down for a long time.also, the fact that they had traded a mobile phone with him in exchange for a pistol he threw them, and then began jamming the signal whenever he tried to call out shows that something is rotten there, he was allowed to speak to them but not anyone else?
anyone with half a brain knows how easy it is for the mobile operator to intercept his calls and cut them off if anything is untoward, and it would have helped to understand what was really happening if he was allowed to explain his take on the matters.
all this coming at a time when many french people would have been demanding an end to these illegal wars and bankruptsy is suspicious.
reminds me of how quickly they disposed of lee harvey oswald and closed the case.
and yes, i haven't forgotten all the lies they told about jean charles de menezes, the kid who they shot dead in cold blood a couple of weeks after the 7/7 false flag in london,
claiming he had run from police, had wires hanging out of his "padded" jacket, vaulted over the barriers, ran down the escelators with police shoutring at him to stop, and jumped on the train ready to blow up a device.
and the cameras all malfunctioned on the day.
it later turned out that they had followed him down the street, he had picked up a metro newspaper at the train station, used his oyster pass to get through the barrier, was wearing a light denim jacket with no with no wires of any sort hanging out, gone down the escalator and casually got on the train.
and the pigs had come onto the train, ordered everyone off, one sat on him while the others shot him multiple times to the head at point blank range, while people watched.
and oh, none of the cameras malfunctioned that day, and they were forced to admit and release the tapes.

the effect the events had is interesting - since it comes at such a critical time in france.
one woman outside stockwell tube station who supported the event claiming his "visa must've run out" had said: "i think people should give up their liberty for freedom".
not even knowing that she was speaking in orwellian doublespeak, and that liberty and freedom are essentially the same thing.



one may ask why he shot and didnt give himself in.
well, if an armed person hears of all thats happening and gets told on the phone they give him that he's gonna be killed anyway in order to freak him out -
i'm sure anyone could deduce what the rational thing to do would be.

i'm not saying that this man is guilty or innocent, but i am sure that the french government has been proven unreliable and treacherous, and that they wouldn't hesitate to kill a few soldiers who are sick of their crimes and about to renegade,
and a few jewish kids to gain a public opinion, in order to continue the wars of aggression on behalf of the bankers and arms merchants.
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AKM
03-25-2012, 08:14 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by لميس
Yes pretty please do cut the BS!

Why would I? Because their track record for pointing out ' Al-Qaeda terrorists' has been immaculate thus far?
Because there have been way too many examples of Muslim extremists ready and willing to murder innocents. But please, keep denying that.

format_quote Originally Posted by لميس
Like I said thank God for your presence here, to share all your psychic abilities and that venerable wisdom!

best,
No need for any psychic abilities, you've made it perfectly clear in this thread, as soon as the monster was revealed to be a Muslim extremist you've immediately turned him into an innocent victim.
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Roasted Cashew
03-25-2012, 09:40 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by لميس
they killed the 'suspect' in a standoff without trial.. convenient.. moral of the story you don't stand a chance as a Muslim
They waited for more than 24 hours to arrest him alive. The suspect shot and wounded 3 policemen and was requested to surrender. If this "suspect" was so innocent why did he shoot at the police and was still shooting while jumping out of the window. It's time Muslims acknowledge that there are bad apples among us who are violent radicals and kill innocent people.
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جوري
03-25-2012, 11:19 AM
repeat post
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جوري
03-25-2012, 11:20 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by AKM
Because there have been way too many examples of Muslim extremists ready and willing to murder innocents. But please, keep denying that.
Maybe 'Muslim extremists' exist because way too many christian extremist ****s are willing to murder innocents?

http://www.islamicboard.com/world-af...ate-crime.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilia...#8211;present)

but please keep denying it .. or maybe you're just too good to be true?

format_quote Originally Posted by AKM
No need for any psychic abilities, you've made it perfectly clear in this thread, as soon as the monster was revealed to be a Muslim extremist you've immediately turned him into an innocent victim.
Guess we'll never know just how monstrous his monstrosity without a trial.. but again thank God for your psychic abilities..

format_quote Originally Posted by Roasted Cashew
They waited for more than 24 hours to arrest him alive.
Oh is that the time allotted before shooting at suspects? The French have demonstrable skills when it comes in ambulatory care and catching rabid suspects-- by the way he shot & killed other Muslims or are they French/American/British/Afghan etc. citizens when killed but only 'Muslim terrorist extremists' when shooting?..
guess you were making another one of your funnies.
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AKM
03-25-2012, 01:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by لميس
Maybe 'Muslim extremists' exist because way too many christian extremist ****s are willing to murder innocents?

(Muslim Woman Beaten to Death in Hate Crime)
Only a hate filled bigot could have done something this despicable, unfortunately there are plenty of those in the US.
format_quote Originally Posted by لميس

but please keep denying it .. or maybe you're just too good to be true?
According to your own link Afghans are being slaughtered both by NATO AND by other Muslims especially in the recent years where MORE deaths are caused by insurgents, or are you only going to pick and choose what you like to hear?

And of course the Afghanistan insanity started after Bin Laden and his religious extremist followers have murdered 3000 people in under two hours on 9/11 but how very convenient of you to ignore that little fact...

In any case, NATO should have focused on Al Qaeda, invading and occupying Afghanistan and especially Iraq has only made the problem immensely worse.
format_quote Originally Posted by لميس
Guess we'll never know just how monstrous his monstrosity without a trial.. but again thank God for your psychic abilities..
You'll never know huh? Oh I forgot, you don't believe the enemy authorities and media. Ask his brother then, he's very proud of his little sibling...
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جوري
03-25-2012, 02:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AKM
Only a hate filled bigot could have done something this despicable, unfortunately there are plenty of those in the US.
They're 'hate filled bigots' but not christian stealth crusading terrorists?
http://motherjones.com/politics/2002/05/stealth-crusade

According to your own link Afghans are being slaughtered both by NATO AND by other Muslims especially in the recent years where MORE deaths are caused by insurgents, or are you only going to pick and choose what you like to hear?
Yes indeed 'recent years' is the operative word here.. one does wonder why?:
unknown Americans' are provoking civil warhttp://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-seen-through-a-syrian-lens-unknown-americans-are-provoking-civil-war-in-iraq-475889.html

And of course the Afghanistan insanity started after Bin Laden and his religious extremist followers have murdered 3000 people in under two hours on 9/11 but how very convenient of you to ignore that little fact...
There was no interest in Afghanistan from 327 BC? no British defeat in 1842? or Soviet one of recent memory?.. This all started with Bin Laden? :lol: You're an uneducated oaf but it is entertaining.
I am not going to touch on Whether Usama was or wasn't responsible for '911' but prior to 911 what were the Americans doing bombing an aspirin factory in Sudan?
http://www.mega.nu/ampp/khartoumbomb.html
and let's see what else:

  • Libya 1982 - USA shoots down 2 Libyan jets.
  • Lebanon 1982-84 - US bombs and shells Muslim positions, expels PLO from territory.
  • Iraq 1987-88 - US supports and arms Saddam Hussein's Iraq in war against Iran
  • Iran 1988 - US shoots down Iranian passenger airliner, killing 290 civilians. Claims it was an "accident"
  • Libya 1989 - US bombs capitol Tripoli killing 55 civilians. Calls it "collateral damage".
  • Kuwait 1991 - US invades Middle East, contradicting its position by intervening in inter-Arab affairs. Returns Kuwaiti Monarchy accused of human right abuses to throne.
  • Iraq 1990 - today - US randomly bombs civilian areas. Blockades Iraqi ports, allows no humanitarian or medical aid. est. 10,000 Iraqi's starve/die monthly as result.
  • Somalia 1992-94 - US sends in humanitarian aid. Becomes involved in Civil war, takes sides attacking one Mogadishu faction. Kills 500+ Somalis
  • Sudan 1998 - US bombs Aspirin Factory in Khartoum killing civilians.
  • Afghanistan 1998 - US missiles kill 28 civilians
  • Afghanistan 2001 - ?

I am not even going to touch upon Foreign assassinations including of its own citizens.

In any case, NATO should have focused on Al Qaeda, invading and occupying Afghanistan and especially Iraq has only made the problem immensely worse.
Sure sure..
You'll never know huh? Oh I forgot, you don't believe the enemy authorities and media. Ask his brother then, he's very proud of his little sibling...
I'll remember that when you're denied due process and your family stands by your side..
thanks for the hearty guffaw otherwise nothing quite like an ignoramus with such an open display for entertainment with my morning cup of Joe!

best,
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Roasted Cashew
03-25-2012, 10:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by لميس
Oh is that the time allotted before shooting at suspect? We should all make a mental note of that, by the way he shot at other Muslims.. what does that make him?
guess you were making another one of your funnies.
He was shot not because the time was up, he was shot because he refused to surrender and when approached shot at the police. And then he tried to escape from the window still shooting at the police and eventually died in the encounter. He just used Islam and the Palestinian cause as an excuse to kill innocent people. He was radicalized and brianwashed. Time to accept the harsh reality.
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جوري
03-25-2012, 11:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Roasted Cashew
He was shot not because the time was up, he was shot because he refused to surrender and when approached shot at the police. And then he tried to escape from the window still shooting at the police and eventually died in the encounter. He just used Islam and the Palestinian cause as an excuse to kill innocent people. He was radicalized and brianwashed. Time to accept the harsh reality.
What harsh reality? So many amiable dunces on the forum.. I think that's indeed an excellent discernment of your own psyche and a projection of your own state of mind you seem to parrot similar **** to your predecessor with linear thought and no policymaking insight or any understanding of geopolitics whatsoever.
It almost irks me to waste my time on your ilk!
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Roasted Cashew
03-25-2012, 11:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by لميس
What harsh reality?
The fact that there are bad apples among the Muslims who deliberately target innocent civilians because of their hardcore brainwashed violent ideology and interpretation of Islam.

format_quote Originally Posted by لميس
****
What did you wanted to say there. At least provide the first letter. Look, I am not saying the west doesn't commit crime or is an angel. In fact, they commit more atrocities than the violent Muslim radicals do. But, we also have to acknowledge that we are not all angels as well. That's my only point.
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Abz2000
03-25-2012, 11:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Roasted Cashew
He just used Islam and the Palestinian cause as an excuse to kill innocent people. He was radicalized and brianwashed.
who told you that? the french media?
sarkozy?
i prefer to admit that they are liars and unreliable in giving news.
i dont even know the man, but immediately felt that something was wrong in their narrative.
and if there was a person you don't know and a person whom you know is a liar,
who's narrative would you suspect?



O ye who believe! If a FAASIQ - wicked person/transgressor comes to you with any news, ascertain the truth,
lest ye harm people unwittingly, and afterwards become full of repentance for what ye have done.

49:6

i remember i used to sometimes wonder like you, when we heard all those 9/11 lies that there must be some really evil wannabe Muslims, ...................until i realized all the lies they told about us.
let me get this straight, i am not prepared to believe their narrative about another Muslim unless i see the evidence myself, and even then i would wonder how much of a hand they had in entrapment.

‘The Believer seeks excuses for his brothers, whilst the hypocrite seeks out their faults.’
Ibn Maazin

‘If one of your brothers commits an error, then seek ninety excuses for him, and if not, then you are the blameworthy one.’
Hamdoon al-Qassaar

“If you find see something you don’t like in a brother, try to find 1-70 excuses for him. And if you can’t find an excuse, say ‘There might be an excuse, but I don’t know it.’ Imam Jafar as-Sadiq
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جوري
03-25-2012, 11:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
who's narrative would you suspect?
A la mode of underwear bomber.. so this guy can roast his cashews and rest easy!
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Roasted Cashew
03-25-2012, 11:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
who told you that? the french media?
Yes. Unless you were there yourself, one has to rely on certain sources. If you have better sources pls disclose them. I prefer to live in the true world instead of a world where "everyone is conspiring against us"...Your sympathy for the suspect is based on absolutely nothing. My criticism is based on a lot of sources.
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جوري
03-25-2012, 11:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Roasted Cashew
That's my only point.
You waste my time with a non-point. It is a judicial matter that should have come out in court..
As bad as their system is, surely they train them to shoot suspects whom they need to question in a way to take them down and not completely kill them unless of course they wanted them silenced-- or was that too much of an abstract thought that you'd rather put under the umbrella of conspiracy lest one of the gods you worship is displeased with the directionality of your reasoning?
Easier to throw someone under the bridge or millions for that matter than ask the right questions.
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Roasted Cashew
03-25-2012, 11:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by لميس
can roast his cashews and rest easy!
getting personal eh?^o)
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جوري
03-25-2012, 11:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Roasted Cashew
getting personal eh?^o)
Not to even with a rotted stick!
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Roasted Cashew
03-25-2012, 11:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by لميس
As bad as their system is, surely they train them to shoot suspects whom they need to question in a way to take them down and not completely kill them unless of course they wanted them silenced
Again, you are ignoring the fact that he shot and wounded 3 policemen and was shot dead while shooting at the police while jumping out of the window. He was asked to surrender. Why didn't he surrender then if he was innocent and why did he shot at the police. You are also ignoring what his brother has to say.
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جوري
03-25-2012, 11:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Roasted Cashew
Again, you are ignoring the fact that he shot and wounded 3 policemen and was shot dead while shooting at the police while jumping out of the window. He was asked to surrender. Why didn't he surrender then if he was innocent and why did he shot at the police. You are also ignoring what his brother has to say.
Maybe he didn't take his olanzapine that morning? Maybe someone paid off his family a large sum for him to self-immolate, maybe he was a little crazy, maybe he did it for his best friend or to cover for his brother, maybe maybe the possibilities are endless, but we will never know. If you're in the habit of denying folks their due process because you like to pose and answer sophomoric questions then there's no point for you to engage in any topic that requires some thought whatsoever. I am not in the habit of turning a one page topic into four. Heck I didn't see you waste that any time on the 32 year old mother of five who was beaten to death for being Muslim. Truly one wonders what ails you? I can understand when it comes from a moronic kaffir but why choose to put Islam in your profile when you have nothing but condemnation & suspicion?
You also repeatedly omit the fact that some of those killed by him 'allegedly' are Muslims-- is that in the agenda of a Muslim who wishes to exact his revenge on Jews?

best,
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Roasted Cashew
03-25-2012, 11:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by لميس
but we will never know
Because he chose NOT to surrender.

format_quote Originally Posted by لميس
Truly one wonders what ails you.
What ails me is Americans trying to justify the killings of 16 Afghan civilians by a rouge soldier but what ails me even more is my fellow Muslims defending and justifying someone who killed innocent people.

format_quote Originally Posted by لميس
32 year old mother of five who was beaten to death for being Muslim.
That is indeed a heinous attack and the killer needs to be apprehended. But in that story we don't have a suspect yet. And I am one of those who believe we ought to clean our own houses first, before pointing garbage in others'.
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جوري
03-25-2012, 11:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Roasted Cashew
clean our own houses first, before pointing garbage in others'.
You do that, clean your house!

best,
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Roasted Cashew
03-25-2012, 11:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by لميس
You do that, clean your house!
HAHA. :exhausted
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Pygoscelis
03-26-2012, 12:21 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Roasted Cashew
The fact that there are bad apples among the Muslims who deliberately target innocent civilians because of their hardcore brainwashed violent ideology and interpretation of Islam.
There are such people involved with pretty much any religion or ideology (including secular humanism to which I subscribe). We should dissociate from them, not allow them to twist said religion/ideology and we should condemn them and call them what they are. But tribalism too often takes over as people decide that one of "us" can do no wrong and "they" can do no right. According to what you have written (I haven't followed this story) you've got a guy shooting at police and they take him down. Because he was a muslim people here are painting him as the good guy. Now imagine he wasn't a muslim but was instead a homosexual atheist or jew... think you'd be having the same argument here?

What ails me is Americans trying to justify the killings of 16 Afghan civilians by a rouge soldier but what ails me even more is my fellow Muslims defending and justifying someone who killed innocent people.
Well put. Both should be condemned. I'm not going to stand behind somebody just because they are my race, gender, countryman, share my political or religious views, etc.
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Roasted Cashew
03-26-2012, 12:41 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
Now imagine he wasn't a muslim but was instead a homosexual atheist or jew... think you'd be having the same argument here?
Exactly! That is my whole point. We are eager to attack when "others" commit atrocities but then fall back into our shells when one of "ours" does the same.
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GuestFellow
03-26-2012, 07:52 PM
Most Muslims from my experience do acknowledge other Muslims do commit sins like rape, murder, mass killings of civilians, theft, robbery, fraud and so on . For example, most Muslims acknowledge we have corrupt Muslim leaders, that Muslim armies have committed atrocities (like the Pakistani military killing Bangladeshis), Egyptian security forces using torture against civilians, some Muslims target civilians to achieve a political goal and so on. Some Muslims also acknowledge problems such as mistreatment of women, Jews, Christians, other minorities and so on.

However, even since 9/11 and the Iraq war, some Muslims have began to doubt information coming from the government. They've told us incorrect information before, so it is likely they will do it again. At times, there have been inconsistencies with the government's version of events. These incidents where innocent civilians get killed do occur at a time that is politically or financially convenient for certain groups of people. So it does cast doubt on information the mainstream media presents which comes from the government.

I'll admit, some Muslims are too quick to accept information that makes non-Muslims look bad from the mainstream media. For example, a soldier has killed some Afghan civilians. They are quick to accept this from the mainstream media and are less likely to question it, than compared to a Muslim soldier killing Afghan civilians.

What we need is a consistent approach to examining these issues. I always assume a person is innocent until proven guilty. If the person dies prior to a fair trial, then examining the information available, I tend to make a logical guess about whether the person has committed a crime, but I'm not certain.

In this case, I'd say it is very likely he killed innocent civilians and I'm awaiting for more information to be released. At one point, after the issue has died completely, I will assume that the person has committed the crime.

So let's try to avoid getting aggressive when having a discussion. Take a chill pill, even though I acknowledge this is a sensitive topic.
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Roasted Cashew
03-26-2012, 10:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
some Muslims are too quick to accept information that makes non-Muslims look bad from the mainstream media. For example, a soldier has killed some Afghan civilians. They are quick to accept this from the mainstream media and are less likely to question it, than compared to a Muslim soldier killing Afghan civilians.
You are absolutely right there. The hypocrisy is so blatant, it irks me.
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TrueStranger
03-26-2012, 11:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tragic Typos

I'll admit, some Muslims are too quick to accept information that makes non-Muslims look bad from the mainstream media. For example, a soldier has killed some Afghan civilians. They are quick to accept this from the mainstream media and are less likely to question it, than compared to a Muslim soldier killing Afghan civilians.

Are you talking about the same media that depicted the American terrorist that killed 16 afghan civilians as mentally strained, without any psychological analysis? The same media that refused to investigate whether or not the soldier acted alone, especially, when they reported eyewitnesses that saw a group of soldiers at the beginning?
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جوري
03-26-2012, 11:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
Are you talking about the same media that depicted the American terrorist that killed 16 afghan civilians as mentally strained, without any psychological analysis? The same media that refused to investigate whether or not the soldier acted alone, especially, when they reported eyewitnesses that saw a group of soldiers at the beginning?
When the post descends down to an unctuous self-righteous display courtesy of a couple of Tartuffes you know it is time to unsubscribe.
As Ali ibn Abu Talib once stated, never argue with a fool, they take you down to their level and beat you with experience!
I wouldn't bother, people have made their mindset and intentions clear from the get go and no amount of reason will abstract a linear brain..

:w:
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Roasted Cashew
03-27-2012, 04:14 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
Are you talking about the same media that depicted the American terrorist that killed 16 afghan civilians as mentally strained, without any psychological analysis? The same media that refused to investigate whether or not the soldier acted alone, especially, when they reported eyewitnesses that saw a group of soldiers at the beginning?
Investigative journalism in the true sense is pretty dead today. And so much more in a volatile and dangerous region like Afghanistan. Well, maybe not dead entirely...you can see a lot of documentaries on Al-Jazeera though. Anyway, such investigations should be done jointly by Nato and Afghan authorities not journalists. Besides, the media reported what the lawyer of that soldier said that he has PSTD. So, you don't want the media to report what you don't like but only report what you want to hear?? That's not how it works. If an Iranian had done something like this, PRESS TV would be the first to report what the defendant's lawyer had to say. No media is free of some sort of bias and sensationalism. Doesn't mean we have to shut ourselves in a closet.
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Roasted Cashew
03-27-2012, 04:17 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by لميس
never argue with a fool, they take you down to their level and beat you with experience!
format_quote Originally Posted by لميس
people have made their mindset and intentions clear from the get go and no amount of reason will abstract a linear brain..
I can say the same thing to you. But I won't. Take a chill pill sis. Why are you always raging. :raging: and angry.
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TrueStranger
03-27-2012, 05:00 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Roasted Cashew
Investigative journalism in the true sense is pretty dead today. And so much more in a volatile and dangerous region like Afghanistan. Well, maybe not dead entirely...you can see a lot of documentaries on Al-Jazeera though. Anyway, such investigations should be done jointly by Nato and Afghan authorities not journalists. Besides, the media reported what the lawyer of that soldier said that he has PSTD. So, you don't want the media to report what you don't like but only report what you want to hear?? That's not how it works. If an Iranian had done something like this, PRESS TV would be the first to report what the defendant's lawyer had to say. No media is free of some sort of bias and sensationalism. Doesn't mean we have to shut ourselves in a closet.
A lawyer? We are supposed to believe the words of a lawyer whose main objective is to create defense claims out of thin air (By the way the terrorist’s own wife said he didn’t have PTSD). Just look at the terminology the media uses. Terms such as terrorist, extremist, and radical/ization are solely reserved to describe certain individuals, mainly Muslims these days. Investigative journalism is not dead, it decided to investigate and scrutinize some matters and sugarcoat other matters pertaining to the West. Deep within its core lie double standards, which become visible in their reporting and conveying of world news. It’s not about incompetence or lack of investigation. The media’s job is to propagate the matters of the state. The claim that no media is free of bias and sensationalism does not change the fact that the Western media industry is structured to function in a manner that reconstructs reality to justify their military, economic, and politic policies. And everyone knows that Press TV does not have the same number of audience as BBC, CNN, and the AP who has about 300 locations worldwide. The idea is to know, not shut yourself in a closet. This is not the first time they played the “mentally retarded” card, and it won’t be the last.
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جوري
03-27-2012, 05:06 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
The media’s job is to propagate the matters of the state
It is hard to imagine amidst the omnipresence of discourse currently on Islam that a mere three decades ago, Islam had been a marginal concern situated on the periphery of western consciousness.
If ever encountered in press reports during the cold war, it would most likely have been in the figure of the "mujahideen" confronting the Empire of Evil in Afghanistan. Islam appeared as a benign ally of the forces of freedom camped in New York and London.
What finally brought it to the heart of Euro-American preoccupations were the events that occured on 9/11.
Islam became a local and globalised issue at once, transmitted in countless daily images across the globe.
Since then, rarely does a day go by without hearing, reading, or watching reports of a terrifying Muslim-related event. The presence of Muslim minorities within western capitals has further complicated things, aggravating the intricate interplay of the local and the global.
Fears of a perpetual Muslim danger overlapped with deep-seated fears of immigrants, aliens, and strangers.
Explicating the truth
Coverage of Islam has turned into an industry specialising in the engineering of images, scenes, and messages.
In a globalised world governed by the power of the image, the question is no longer what has sparked this event or that incident and how it has unfolded on the ground, but how it gets captured by the camera and reported to viewers, listeners, and readers at home.
Some might argue, that the media merely reports what is already in existence. However things are not so straightforward in the real world. For the lens is neither neutral nor objective.
It is subject to a set of pre-defined choices and calculations that decide what we see and do not see, know and do not know.
The media is not a mirror reflecting what is out there. Its role is not simple, passive transmission, but active creation, shaping, and manufacturing, through a lengthy process of selection, filtering, interpretation, and editing.
The hidden arms that hold the reins of our media - the giant news corporations and their masters - are not benign charities driven by the love of humanity.
Paradigms of dissemination
Of the 57 countries in the vast geographic and cultural expanse known as the Muslim world, some are rich, others poor; some royal, others republican; some conservative, others liberal; some stable, others less so; some where women preside over the state, others that deny them the right to vote; some that oppress in the name of religion, others that do so in the name of secularism...etc
But this strikingly varied mosaic is absent from mainstream coverage of the subject. What is compound, complex, diverse, and multi-faceted turns into a plain surface without depth, reduced to a narrow set of narratives about blood-thirsty terrorists, shouting mobs, black turbans, battered wives, and caged daughters.
The Muslim world becomes a silent object that does not speak, but is spoken for, an anonymous background against which stands the reporter dispatched from the metropolis.
S/he is the agent of understanding, the one who deciphers this strange entity's mysterious codes and uncovers its secrets for us; the one who gives it meaning, truth and order.
Nowhere is this will to superficiality and reductionism more evident than in reports of conflicts in the Middle East.
Viewers are given a few minutes during which they watch and hear descriptions of wreckage, smoke, burnt cars, scorched bodies, severed limbs, blood, and wailing widows.
With no attempt to explain the underlying causes and histories of the crises in question, the reports merely compound existing misunderstanding.
The confusion is such that roles are often reversed, with the victim mistaken for the oppressor.
Prisms of perception
This is confirmed by a number of studies, such as the one conducted following the Palestinian Intifada by Greg Philo and Mike Berry of the Glasgow University Group.
The researchers monitored hours of BBC and ITV coverage of the 2002 Intifada, examined 200 news programmes, and interviewed over 800 people about their perceptions of the conflict .
The researchers encountered an alarming level of ignorance and confusion among the viewers, of whom only 9 per cent knew that the "occupied territories" were occupied by Israel, with the majority believing that the Palestinians were the occupiers.
This is hardly surprising given the unbalanced coverage and its tendency to obscure the central truths in the conflict: It does not tell us that over 418 Palestinian villages were destroyed in 1948, that their inhabitants were expelled in their hundreds of thousands, that Israel was largely established by force on 78 per cent of historic Palestine, that since 1967 it has illegally occupied and imposed various forms of military rule on the remaining 22 per cent, or that the majority of Palestinians - over 8 million - live as refugees today.
Reports of the Iraq war do not fare better. The viewer is given the impression that the country's ills are rooted in its people's bloodthirstiness and love of self-mutilation, with one sect and ethnicity vying for the other's destruction.
The Americans emerge as benign mediators whose role consists in imposing order and preventing the different groups from exterminating each other.
The causes of the ongoing state of chaos are increasingly being brushed under the carpet, viz the 150,000 strong army deployed to invade a country hundreds of miles away, the destruction of its infrastructure, systematic demolition of its national collective memory, desecration of its cultural heritage, erection of an ethnic and sectarian based political system, dissolution of its army in the name of "de-baathisation", and arming of one faction against the other - first the Kurdish Peshmarga, then the Shia militias in the name of "confronting the Sunni triangle", and finally al-Anbar's Sunni tribes under the pretext of combating Al Qaeda.
What the media reports do not tell us is that Iraqis continue to suffer not because they are Arabs, Muslims, brown-skinned, or followers of an "inherently violent" religious culture, but because they are the victims of a heartless power game that saw them as little more than insects, worthless creatures to trample on without bothering to count the dead.
The west seems to have created its own "machinery of truth" about Islam, Muslims, Arabs, and the Middle East.
Through it the lens is directed and small narratives are produced and reproduced ad infinitum.
The titles and headlines may vary, but they lead back to a narrow ring of notions that define Muslim society in the eyes of manufacturer and domesticated consumer alike.
These boil down to violence, fanaticism, irrationality, emotiveness, stagnation, subordination, and despotism. They are the pillars of an orthodoxy, which is popularised by the media and bolstered by a complex network of power centres and institutions.
To defy it is to place oneself outside the mainstream and within the margins, alongside outsiders, heretics, and truth monsters.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opi...591745716.html
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TrueStranger
03-27-2012, 05:18 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Roasted Cashew
I can say the same thing to you. But I won't. Take a chill pill sis. Why are you always raging. :raging: and angry.
Honestly, it is painful to know that as Muslims we are unable to even know one of the names of the seventeen innocent Afghans killed by this man. The NY Times listed the names and ages of the Toulouse murder.

No one condones the killings of innocent people regardless of their nationality, race, or religion. However, is it a result of journalist incompetence that the deaths of Muslims are reported using numeric digits and those of Western or Israel origins are named and positively identified?


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/22/wo...in-israel.html
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Roasted Cashew
03-27-2012, 05:20 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
A lawyer? We are supposed to believe the words of a lawyer whose main objective is to create defense claims out of thin air
I didn't say we have to believe anything the lawyer says. I just said, they reported what he said. It's up to you to believe the lawyer or not.

format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
Terms such as terrorist, extremist, and radical/ization are solely reserved to describe certain individuals, mainly Muslims these days.
extremist/radical - there is no evidence that this soldier was driven by any type of radical/extreme ideology. So the media is right in not using those terms for him.

Terrorist:
a) A person who uses terrorism in the pursuit of political aims.
b) the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion
c) a person, usually a member of a group, who uses or advocates terrorism.
d) a person who terrorizes or frightens others.

So yes, according to some of the definitions above, he is indeed a terrorist and the media is wrong to only stick with certain definitions and ignoring others. Again I said and acknowledged that the media is biased.

format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
The idea is to know
I know. I get you.

format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
structured to function in a manner that reconstructs reality to justify their military, economic, and politic policies.
Maybe you are not paying enough attention. Their media constantly criticizes their countries' economic and political policies. And also I think the same media actually leaked the Abu Gharib torture pics and scrutinized water boarding. So, yes they are not angels, but give credit where it is due. And before criticizing them, have a look at our own media outlets in our Muslim countries. My country, Pakistan is blessed with a free media which acts as a watchdog to the government and the army but the same can't be said about other Muslim countries where the media is basically the spokesperson for dictators or authoritarian regimes.
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Roasted Cashew
03-27-2012, 05:42 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
However, is it a result of journalist incompetence that the deaths of Muslims are reported using numeric digits and those of Western or Israel origins are named and positively identified?
If not mistaken, Al-Jazeera was the first to report their names.
http://blogs.aljazeera.com/asia/2012...ed-their-names

Albeit a bit slow, western media outlets did follow suit:

CNN
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/03/24/op...iref=allsearch

CBS
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_1...ughters-alike/
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TrueStranger
03-27-2012, 05:57 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Roasted Cashew
If not mistaken, Al-Jazeera was the first to report their names.
http://blogs.aljazeera.com/asia/2012...ed-their-names

Albeit a bit slow, western media outlets did follow suit:

CNN
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/03/24/op...iref=allsearch

CBS
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_1...ughters-alike/
CNN: I have been traveling back-and-forth to developing nations my entire life and for years I have now lived in one, India. As a journalist, reader and citizen, it is my clear impression that victims of tragedies in developing nations are not given anywhere near the same coverage or attention as victims in developed nations by the international press.
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Roasted Cashew
03-27-2012, 06:04 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
CNN: I have been traveling back-and-forth to developing nations my entire life and for years I have now lived in one, India. As a journalist, reader and citizen, it is my clear impression that victims of tragedies in developing nations are not given anywhere near the same coverage or attention as victims in developed nations by the international press.
That is true indeed. The fact that a journalist working for a media outlet of a developed country says that and it gets published, speaks loads for that media outlet. It realizes and acknowledges it's shortcomings. Let's hope they now work to overcome their shortcomings. Publishing the names of these Afghan victims is the step in the right direction.
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Maryan0
03-27-2012, 10:02 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Roasted Cashew
I didn't say we have to believe anything the lawyer says. I just said, they reported what he said. It's up to you to believe the lawyer or not.


Precisely and people can choose to not believe what the media tells them. I haven't seen anyone argue that the man in question for this crime did not do it or is innocent. Some people believe that people are entitled to due process. You can't just take people out and tell a story and expect people to take everything you say at face value no questions asked. They did with Osama and they did this with Awlaki. Asking for proof is a reasonable request. Too bad the dead can't speak for themselves.
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GuestFellow
03-27-2012, 02:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
Are you talking about the same media that depicted the American terrorist that killed 16 afghan civilians as mentally strained, without any psychological analysis?
Not that one. The example I presented was not based on any true events.
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Pygoscelis
03-27-2012, 03:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
CNN: I have been traveling back-and-forth to developing nations my entire life and for years I have now lived in one, India. As a journalist, reader and citizen, it is my clear impression that victims of tragedies in developing nations are not given anywhere near the same coverage or attention as victims in developed nations by the international press.
They know who their audience is and speak to their perspective. We get the same thing in Canadian news. When hearing reports about anything from the Olympics to national disasters we always seem to hear about the Canadians involved (usually as a side story but it does happen). I imagine this happens everywhere, media speaking to the perspective of their viewers. The problem is when they claim to be "International" in scope.
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Roasted Cashew
03-27-2012, 03:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Maryan0
You can't just take people out and tell a story
And you can't simply shoot at the police, injure them and not expect retaliation. Again, he was asked to surrender, he didn't. Any logical mind would conclude that he had something to hide and was guilty because he chose to do otherwise.
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M.I.A.
03-27-2012, 03:50 PM
i think its very similar to the Afghanistan tragedy. just two people who lost there minds and were already predisposed to a certain mentality.

either way its a tragedy when children are made targets, not a rational thing to think about.

out of all of humanity children are the most important.. callousness and heartlessness should be abolished from adults.

the site of dead children would make any person give up, those that dont.. are probably not of sound mentality.

its what i thought would make most difference in the isreal-palestine conflict.. apparently not.

if you want to turn men to animals, children are the target.. you would have to be an animal to do so though..


im not a realist but it seems we dont deserve peace.
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Futuwwa
03-27-2012, 06:48 PM
Can someone tell me exactly how Merah was denied due process?

Hint: To not be shot back at when you start shooting at the police is not a civil right.
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Maryan0
03-27-2012, 08:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Roasted Cashew
And you can't simply shoot at the police, injure them and not expect retaliation. Again, he was asked to surrender, he didn't. Any logical mind would conclude that he had something to hide and was guilty because he chose to do otherwise.
If that is the way it supposedly went down.
Salam
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Maryan0
03-27-2012, 08:28 PM
Al Jazeera not to air French killings video
Network says broadcast of video showing shootings that left seven dead in southern France does not meet code of ethics.


Al Jazeera has said it will not air a video that it received showing three shooting attacks in Toulouse and Montauban in southern France this month.

The network on Tuesday said the video did not add any information that was not already in public domain. It also did not meet the television station's code of ethics for broadcast.

The video shows the attacks in chronological order, with audible gunshots and voices of the killer and the victims. But it does not show the face of the confessed murderer, Mohammed Merah, and it does not contain a statement from him.

Merah appeared to be acting alone in the video, entitled "Al Qaeda attaque la France" - meaning "Al-Qaeda attacks France".

The 23-year-old Frenchman of Algerian descent, who said he was inspired by al-Qaeda, admitted to killing three soldiers, three Jewish children and a rabbi in a spate of shootings that sent shockwaves through France.

Merah boasted of filming his killings and witnesses told police that he appeared to be wearing a video camera in a chest harness.

The Paris prosecutor in charge of the case confirmed last week that the Merah had filmed each of the shootings.

Tracing the source


French police said on Monday they had copies of the videos, shot by Merah during the series of killings, that had been sent on a USB memory stick to Al Jazeera's office in Paris.

The package, which also contained a letter written in poor French with spelling and grammar errors, was dated March 21 - the day police surrounded Merah in his apartment in Toulouse after a massive manhunt.

Zied Tarrouche, Al Jazeera's Paris bureau chief, said the images were a bit shaky but of a high technical quality. He also said the video had clearly been manipulated after the fact, with religious songs and recitations of Quranic verses laid over the footage.

"Investigators are trying to find out whether the letter was posted [last] Tuesday night by Mohamed Merah himself or by an accomplice Wednesday morning," Le Parisien daily newspaper reported.

The French newspaper Le Figaro reported that the package containing the video files was sent from a southern suburb of Toulouse, and a French official close to the investigation has said it was not sent by Merah.

'Despicable images'

French President Nicolas Sarkozy, in mid-campaign for re-election, urged television networks on Tuesday not to broadcast the video. Family members of the victims also asked that the footage not be aired.

"I ask the managers of all television stations that might have these images not to broadcast them in any circumstances, out of respect for the victims - out of respect for the Republic," Sarkozy said.

Meanwhile, Merah's father, who was estranged from his son and lives in Algeria, has reportedly said he wants to file a complaint for Mohammed's death. In his address, Sarkozy expressed outrage at that idea.

"It's with indignation that I learned that the father of the assassin of seven people - including three soldiers and three children - wanted to file a lawsuit against France for the death of his son," Sarkozy said.

"Do we need to remind this man that his son filmed his crimes and diabolically made sure to send these despicable images to a television station?"

Sarkozy has said Merah was not part of a terror cell, but four anti-terrorist judges are heading the investigation into whether his brother, Abdelkader, was an accomplice, and whether anyone else might have been involved.

Preliminary charges for complicity in murder and terrorism have been filed against Abdelkader, though no evidence has emerged that he took part directly in the shooting.

Mohammed, who had attended an Islamist training camp in Pakistan, used a stolen scooter and a Colt 45 pistol to carry out his attacks over eight days before being cornered by police and eventually shot dead after a dramatic 30-hour siege.

The gunman's family has decided to have him buried in Algeria, his parents' native country, to avoid a grave in France being attacked or becoming a place of pilgrimage, an official of a Paris mosque said.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe...265948416.html
Reply

Cabdullahi
03-27-2012, 10:34 PM
Toulouse murders
One of them, Samir, said Merah had been seen in a Toulouse night club only last week.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17456541
9/11 Attacks
The men frequented a men's club in San Diego called Cheetah's Topless Club, which is near the Islamic Center.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plannin...ber_11_attacks
Al qaeda love going to strip clubs...dont they?

people who adhere to the fundamental principles of Islam dont go to strip clubs and they certainly do not kill innocent people at point blank range.

Brother Bush said that these fanatics want to kill us for our freedoms....the same freedom they once enjoyed?....going to titty bars?...they want to kill us for going to the same places that they once visited?

I dont understand what's going on to be honest...i would like to share with you four words.


dont believe the hype!
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Aprender
03-27-2012, 11:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Roasted Cashew
And you can't simply shoot at the police, injure them and not expect retaliation. Again, he was asked to surrender, he didn't. Any logical mind would conclude that he had something to hide and was guilty because he chose to do otherwise.
Not necessarily. I grew up in a culture surrounded by constant gang violence and individuals with a strong dislike for any type of law enforcement. I had classmates who were involved in shootings with others who would much rather DIE, than surrender to the police and be locked away in prison, and many of them chose death. A lot of them already know that the police won't listen to what they have to say anyway and the stories get told the way they're going to get told. And police don't mind this either. To them, it's just one less little "criminal" for them to worry about. Who would care? To the rest of the public they were just some little hopeless Arab/Black/Mexican/[insert any type of non-White ethnic group here] that was a danger to the rest of society....

I'm not saying that all police are like this but it happens quite often.
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Aprender
03-28-2012, 12:01 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Roasted Cashew
Anyway, such investigations should be done jointly by Nato and Afghan authorities not journalists. Besides, the media reported what the lawyer of that soldier said that he has PSTD.
I have to disagree with you. Investigations should be done by journalists, not NATO and Afghan authorities. NATO and Afghan authorities are going to investigate in their own special way and give you a watered down report. It used to be the job of the journalist to find out what they're hiding and give the public the truth. The media used to be an objective entity. Journalism was born out of being the watchdog of the government and especially after all of the corruption that was happening in back in the 50s, 60s, 70s and beyond here in America. Their first obligation was to the public back then.

Unfortunately what you have happening now is a new generation of journalists who no longer ask the tough questions and accept what they are told by public information officers. They don't dig deeper. As long as the story gets filed before deadline they're done. The days of journalism like that of Woodward and Bernstein are gone. Journalists have less access to information and the government is becoming less and less transparent. As a result you get the news that THEY WANT you to know. Not necessarily the truth. Yes, some information is private and vital to national security and shouldn't be broadcast on the air but unfortunately all that's happened now is that it's easier for those who are corrupt to hide and continue their corruption.

And what's also unfortunate is that even when you do have some journalists who do their homework and expose the truth for what it is, their editors don't publish those stories for fear of getting funding from the news outlet cut off, fired, or even murdered. This has also happened before to journalists who get too close to the truth.

Another thing you have to understand is that most of the major news outlets in America are owned pretty much by the same three companies. So they control their puppets the way they want to. With the internet, anyone can post something anywhere to expose them which is why now they're trying to put stricter laws on internet use to silence people. WikiLeaks is a threat to corruption. Good journalistic work is a threat to their corruption so they bought the media out. But you can't own the internet at this point and time in history. Outlets like PeaceTV, and AlJazeera aren't widely accepted news outlets here in the U.S. so most people in the West aren't going to get access to that information or the documentaries that they show. The impact isn't as effective.

format_quote Originally Posted by Roasted Cashew
So, you don't want the media to report what you don't like but only report what you want to hear?? That's not how it works.
That's exactly how it works and we're taught this even in journalism school from day 1. Don't let them fool you. They report to you what THEY WANT YOU to hear and it's not always the truth.
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Roasted Cashew
03-28-2012, 09:15 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aprender
I have to disagree with you. Investigations should be done by journalists
I understand what you are trying to imply and I agree with you that journalists should play a bigger role and go back to their roots of investigative journalism but mind you this is a crime scene. Don't you think forensic teams and the like should be handling this instead of journalists.

format_quote Originally Posted by Aprender
Don't let them fool you
Don't worry sis, I know better than to trust only one source of information. I browse around and read my news from multiple sources.

format_quote Originally Posted by Aprender
Not necessarily. I grew up in a culture surrounded by constant gang violence and individuals with a strong dislike for any type of law enforcement. I had classmates who were involved in shootings with others who would much rather DIE, than surrender to the police and be locked away in prison, and many of them chose death. A lot of them already know that the police won't listen to what they have to say anyway and the stories get told the way they're going to get told. And police don't mind this either. To them, it's just one less little "criminal" for them to worry about. Who would care? To the rest of the public they were just some little hopeless Arab/Black/Mexican/[insert any type of non-White ethnic group here] that was a danger to the rest of society....

I'm not saying that all police are like this but it happens quite often.
It saddens me to see to the extent some of you are going to defend this guy. Well, I no longer feel angry about Americans trying to justify Bales actions anymore. Maybe he really does have PTSD. I guess, that's how it works. One's natural response is to make excuses for on of 'their' own.
Reply

aadil77
03-28-2012, 10:39 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Roasted Cashew
I understand what you are trying to imply and I agree with you that journalists should play a bigger role and go back to their roots of investigative journalism but mind you this is a crime scene. Don't you think forensic teams and the like should be handling this instead of journalists.



Don't worry sis, I know better than to trust only one source of information. I browse around and read my news from multiple sources.



It saddens me to see to the extent some of you are going to defend this guy. Well, I no longer feel angry about Americans trying to justify Bales actions anymore. Maybe he really does have PTSD. I guess, that's how it works. One's natural response is to make excuses for on of 'their' own.
No offence, but are you dumb enough to believe that NATO and US forces will properly investigate the killings?

They are the warmongers, the invaders, their job is to cover up the killings to prevent a public backlash, its called military censorship - go look it up.

And your last statement is pure appeasement to non-muslims.
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Aprender
03-28-2012, 02:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Roasted Cashew
Don't you think forensic teams and the like should be handling this instead of journalists.
That's not how it works. I used to be a journalist so let me explain a little better as I've been to a few crime scenes myself involving murder. Yes, you have to let the forensic teams and the detectives investigate what happened. As a journalist, you should go up and ask the detective what they found out, what they knew, if they have any leads, any suspects? Even try and ask the forensics team what they found if they'll talk to you including the medical examiner. And after the detective answers those questions, or at least sends you over to the PIO, you should then look for the people surrounding the crime scene to ask them what they saw. Talk to people surrounding the family. Get their point of view too. This is something unfortunately that gets neglected in journalism. Especially with breaking news. Journalists will just ask the PIO and forget the witnesses and go with the 'official story'. This is part of the objectivity that is missed a lot in news these days. It's good to get the official word from those who are handling the crime scene but you should also talk to those around for the sake of balancing your story out and providing the readers with another angle. News is supposed to start a public discussion. Not be about a bunch of suspicion.

The issue that I have with this story as a journalist is that it started out as a man who was in France possibly running around as a serial killer shooting innocent people but as soon as they found out who it was, all of a sudden he's a terrorist. And then they say he visited Afghanistan so he must have gotten training by the Taliban too! It's just like one of those extra details "added in" to puff up the story about this guy with a Muslim name. There is a pattern if you haven't noticed.

Rarely, if ever, when you look at the news reported by Western media outlets does it show any type of Muslim in a positive light. Just last week when that Muslim woman was beaten to death in an alleged hate crime, everyone suspected that the husband beat her and they're just trying to cover it up. Few months ago a Muslim woman who is a refugee from Iraq disciplined her daughter for talking to a man. The news reported that the woman beat her daughter so severely that she had to go to the hospital. The girl did have to go to the hospital for reasons unknown but when she returned the very next day, she had no visible bruises on her face, no bandages, as the news had originally reported and the girl said herself that she never told the police that her mother beat her either for them to arrest her mother and hold her in jail for it overnight. Then they concluded that report by basically saying that the girl was just lying and that immigrants just don't understand American culture. Another story a while ago a mosque was having trouble with supplies and providing food for the poor so a church stepped in to save the day. MashaAllah that's really nice but the way the story was written implied that Muslims and their places of worship are incapable of helping the needy--it implied that it was something only Christians could do best.

You have to read between the lines. Any good journalist will tell you this and this is drilled into us in journalism school. Look up the work of Ida B. Wells. During her time period, Blacks in the south were being lynched and severely beaten in droves for allegedly raping white women. Some of them denied a fair trial and their families beaten or burned alive by lynch mobs. Each newspaper would publish a story stating that some black man raped a white woman and Ida took notice of the holes in those journalism stories and called them out for it. And because of that good journalism work that she did, she received death threats for messing up the status quo of reporting bad about black men because that was the thing that sold papers and fueled hatred toward Black/African Americans. This was in the late 1800s. If you want to read more about that you can read her book called Southern Horrors and Other Writings: The Anti-Lynching campaign of Ida B. Wells.

Just because we're now in the 21st century doesn't mean that journalists don't still do this. This is a pattern that has been going on for ages. There is always some marginalized group that has to remain marginalized. Even during WWII when the Japanese were thrown into internment camps the media portrayed them in a negative light. Some American soldiers even took the heads of Japanese soldiers as trophies and boasted about it in the news and the public was fine with this practice because they were the enemy. The CIA created an entire news organization and dropped anti-Communist pamphlets from balloons on countries that could potentially be over thrown by Communism stemming from the Cold War. They played into the propaganda good by broadcasting stories of people who escaped Communist oppression to make it seem like the bad, evil "other". That news organization that they created is still around today except it is no longer run or funded by the CIA. This still happens today. Ex-Muslims show their faces on TV to expose how awful and terrible the religion is and people believe it. Why would the news ever lie to them about something? The techniques of Stephen Glass are still around in journalism today...

format_quote Originally Posted by Roasted Cashew
It saddens me to see to the extent some of you are going to defend this guy.
I'm not in any way defending this man. I have no idea the circumstances of what led him to do what he did and nothing that I shared with you is not true. You'd probably be surprised to know that children who live in certain areas of Los Angeles actually have higher levels of PTSD than American soldiers who come back from war zones.

Yeah, something caused this man to be up there that day. Something caused him to shoot those people and shoot at the police. But if he didn't have a Muslim name, but instead was named James Smith, or even Jared Loughner, then I doubt that the media would be calling him a terrorist but still someone who just "snapped", murdered people and was mentally unstable.
Reply

Aprender
03-28-2012, 02:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Roasted Cashew
Well, I no longer feel angry about Americans trying to justify Bales actions anymore. Maybe he really does have PTSD. I guess, that's how it works. One's natural response is to make excuses for on of 'their' own.
I'm an American and I am not making excuses for that soldier and if anything shows that getting out of Afghanistan is probably a better option at this point. Most of us here recognize that there are Muslims in the world who do very bad things. Just because one is a Muslim doesn't automatically make them perfect, free from sin or infallible. Yes, Muslims do bad things. But you have to understand that there are double standards at play here when it comes to the media portrayal of individuals who do bad things. I'm much more likely to believe a story like this one if I saw video in court proceedings of the one who did it clearly stating what happened, with evidence and why they did it as opposed to hearing it from the mouths of law enforcement ONLY. News articles used to be that way but not anymore. Too much conjecture. I'm not saying that he didn't do this. But the way in which this story was presented is just another way to characterize Muslims as terrorists and nothing else. Everyone else gets the benefit of the doubt of having PTSD, or being crazy, or being heavily intoxicated if they shoot people and harm others.

But if a Muslim does it, then no, they're not crazy, they're automatically a terrorist because they follow a backwards ideology incompatible with the 21st century. End of discussion. Even non-Muslims notice this constant negative publicity toward Muslims. I've had women come up to me and ask me why I'm not mean to them or if I have to go around killing people for being an infidel. Some even surprised to see a Muslim woman getting an education at the university because of the media portrayal of all Muslim women being oppressed or beaten by their husbands.

I'm not saying that Muslims don't do bad things and I am not condoning any of them who do. But it gets a little fishy when each news story that you hear about when it comes to Muslims is usually always something bad and the ones who did it mysteriously end up dead when it's all over unable to tell their side of the story. Whether a Muslim or non-Muslim is involved, as a former journalist I typically question these types of stories. The trend is quite obvious for the decade. I wonder what 'Muslim' or other minority in the Western world will be a terrorist or muderer in the news next week... :hmm:
Reply

GuestFellow
03-28-2012, 04:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aprender
I have to disagree with you. Investigations should be done by journalists, not NATO and Afghan authorities.
Salaam,

Right.

It used to be the job of the journalist to find out what they're hiding and give the public the truth.
So you put put journalists in charge of investigations...conflict of interest?

The media used to be an objective entity.
http://www.ski-jungle.com/posters/images2/PTW-110.jpg
Reply

Roasted Cashew
03-28-2012, 05:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77
dumb enough
Hitting some nerves there am I? Nah, haven't reached that milestone yet. That's why I clearly said "...and Afghan authorities". Next time read the entire paragraph. Afghan forensic teams should work on the crime scene as well. You don't trust them either?
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Roasted Cashew
03-28-2012, 06:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aprender
That's not how it works. I used to be a journalist so let me explain
Alright, so they both have their work cut out. Got it.


format_quote Originally Posted by Aprender
part of the objectivity that is missed a lot in news these days
So this is the trend now-a-days which plagues the media IN GENERAL!

format_quote Originally Posted by Aprender
Rarely, if ever, when you look at the news reported by Western media outlets does it show any type of Muslim in a positive light.
Rarely, if ever when you look at the news reported by Iranian outlets does it show any type of non-Muslims in a positive light. BIAS will always be there.
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Roasted Cashew
03-28-2012, 07:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aprender
But if a Muslim does it, then no, they're not crazy, they're automatically a terrorist because they follow a backwards ideology incompatible with the 21st century.
Because 90% of the time it is a terrorist brainwashed by violent extremists. We can only blame these violent radicals for such perceptions from the west.

format_quote Originally Posted by Aprender
I'm much more likely to believe a story like this one if I saw video in court proceedings of the one who did it clearly stating what happened, with evidence and why they did it as opposed to hearing it from the mouths of law enforcement ONLY.
Bales was arrested and is in court now. Will you be able to accept if the court rules he indeed was suffering from PTSD??
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GuestFellow
03-28-2012, 09:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Roasted Cashew
Because 90% of the time it is a terrorist brainwashed by violent extremists. We can only blame these violent radicals for such perceptions from the west.
Salaam,

I respectfully disagree to a certain extent. Most individuals that commit terrorist acts want to achieve a certain goal. This goal could be a good one, but the means to achieve it is not. As you know, US support for dictatorships in Asia, US military bases in Arab countries and US support for Israel has lead to individuals committing terrorist acts. This is the source of the problem.

There is no brainwashing involved, nor extreme ideology. I suspect what we do have is a lot of anger which translates to terrorist attacks. The anger comes from western countries interference. Of course, you will have some individuals that create propaganda to encourage Muslims to commit terrorist attacks, possibly for their own purposes, whether political or financial reasons. Propaganda may take the form of materials promoting hatred towards Jews, presenting western people as immoral human beings and so on.

Strip away all the rhetoric and you will find that there is no brainwashing nor extreme ideology. Just western countries interfering and some Muslims getting angry and want to stop this.
Reply

جوري
03-28-2012, 09:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Roasted Cashew
suffering from PTSD
oh poor guy was all stressed.. Does suffering a disorder preclude from a guilty verdict?
And does being insane equal a disorder in your book? yeah war is a ***** maybe they should have thought about that before sending their boys over to wreak carnage on sovereign nations for that will breed amongst other things hostility and 'terrorists'

best,
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Roasted Cashew
03-28-2012, 09:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
The anger comes from western countries interference.
format_quote Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
western countries interfering and some Muslims getting angry and want to stop this.
This is indeed true.

format_quote Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
There is no brainwashing involved, nor extreme ideology.
This not so. Look at this systematic brainwashing of children by the Taliban:

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GuestFellow
03-28-2012, 10:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Roasted Cashew
This not so. Look at this systematic brainwashing of children by the Taliban:

Salaam,

I will watch this and let you know what I think. Also, I have to do more research.
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GuestFellow
03-28-2012, 10:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
you think what this b**** has to say has any weight among Muslims?
Salaam,

No need to swear. However, what she says MAY contain an element of truth. It is best to keep an open mind and not be afraid to research issues that are contrary to our beliefs. :)
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CosmicPathos
03-28-2012, 10:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
Salaam,

No need to swear. However, what she says MAY contain an element of truth. It is best to keep an open mind and not be afraid to research issues that are contrary to our beliefs. :)
I do have an open mind and that is why I came to conclusion to have an opinion against her without getting influenced by her emo video. Why do you think that agreeing with what she has to say is the only sign of possessing an open mind? What needs to be researched about this issue? :S
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GuestFellow
03-28-2012, 10:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
I do have an open mind
Great!

and that is why I came to conclusion to have an opinion against her without getting influenced by her emo video
.

And that's fine.

Why do you think that agreeing with what she has to say is the only sign of possessing an open mind?
I never said that.

I just got the impression your not open-minded. You sounded angry. :skeleton: My bad.

What needs to be researched about this issue? :S
Do you know what is going on in Afghanistan? Specifically about these allegations about children are being brainwashed by the Talibam. If so, tell me because I want to know. Also, present evidence as well. It will save me the trouble for researching this topic.

EDIT:

LOL Talibam!!!
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Aprender
03-28-2012, 10:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Roasted Cashew
BIAS will always be there.
That's was the point of my entire post. I'm not sure if you understood correctly what I was saying? But thank you for re-stating that.

format_quote Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
So you put put journalists in charge of investigations...conflict of interest?
You don't understand the definition of an investigation in a journalistic sense nor do you understand the definition of a conflict of interest in a journalistic sense. An investigative journalism reporter does not sit down at a crime scene and collect blood samples and try to figure out blood splatter. That's the job of the people who are paid to do it. An investigative journalist would talk to people, follow leads, and try to figure out the story by digging deeper than others might do by just going on what was sent out in the official press release. Hence them being called investigative...

A conflict of interest would occur when the person who died at the crime scene was a relative or friend of the journalist or someone who was involved in an organization that the journalist also belonged to. At that point it would be proper for him/her to call their editor and excuse themselves from pursuing the story and allowing another journalist to take it.
Reply

Roasted Cashew
03-28-2012, 10:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
you think what this b**** has to say has any weight among Muslims?
Neither does what you have to say! At least, her talk is backed by her own research and investigation.
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جوري
03-28-2012, 10:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
without getting influenced by her emo video.
All that vesicoureteral reflux has gone to her brains..:hmm:
Reply

Aprender
03-28-2012, 10:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Roasted Cashew
Bales was arrested and is in court now. Will you be able to accept if the court rules he indeed was suffering from PTSD??
If he is evaluated and it turns out that he has PTSD then yes. I don't understand what you're getting so defensive about here. I worked in the journalism industry for years so forgive me for demanding quality journalistic work and seeing the holes that a lot of stories these days leave out--especially when it involves alleged terrorism.

I'm just informing you of the current media trends of the decade and the politics that are surrounded by it. They go hand in hand and you'd be wise to recognize them. I'm not saying that every story that comes out about some Muslim terrorist is a lie but if there is something that doesn't add up about the story, or language and words being used that are potentially leading readers to a specific conclusion then I am not going to sit here and accept it as the complete truth. No journalist who cares about the integrity of the profession and producing better objectivity in stories would.
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CosmicPathos
03-28-2012, 10:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Roasted Cashew
Neither does what you have to say! At least, her talk is backed by her own research and investigation.
lol her research? What research? What was the power of this study? What was the significant level? Where are the confidence levels? Where are the standard deviation bars? What about researcher bias?

Research, you say, eh.
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GuestFellow
03-28-2012, 10:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aprender

You don't understand the definition of an investigation in a journalistic sense nor do you understand the definition of a conflict of interest in a journalistic sense.
Salaam,

I do not care about a journalistic perspective on this matter. You said the Afghan authorities and NATO should not be involved. The impression I got is that journalists should head this matter and have the same responsibility.

A simple definition of a journalist:

A person who writes for newspapers or magazines or prepares news to be broadcast on radio or television.
That is their job.

An investigative journalism reporter does not sit down at a crime scene and collect blood samples and try to figure out blood splatter. That's the job of the people who are paid to do it. An investigative journalist would talk to people, follow leads, and try to figure out the story by digging deeper than others might do. Hence them being called investigative...
That is what the police and the government do. However, the authorities have more power and a duty to uphold the law. In addition, the authorities will have access to experts and not under pressure to sell stories.

A journalist job is to sell stories.

A conflict of interest would occur when the person who died at the crime scene was a relative or friend of the journalist or someone who was involved in an organization that the journalist also belonged to. At that point it would be proper for him/her to call their editor and excuse themselves from pursuing the story and allowing another journalist to take it.
Conflict of interest occurs where a person's decision is influenced by his own personal interests. For example, a journalist wants to investigate a murder scene. The journalist wants to report the facts but his manager puts pressure on him to twist the facts in order to sell more stories. Is this not a conflict of interest? It is an ethical issue, whether to present the truth or to gain publicity.
Reply

~Raindrop~
03-28-2012, 11:31 PM
Please act like responsible adults and refrain from childish insults. Beef will not be tolerated.
Debate respectfully, or not at all.


Thread closed.
Reply

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