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truthseeker63
03-23-2012, 08:42 AM
Can anyone explain to me why the Shia are wrong and why Sunni is correct ? Is it true that the Shia are Polytheists and worship Human Beings like Christians do ? Are the Sunni oppressed in Iran ?

Demonstration Against Iranian Persecution of Sunni Muslims

Uploaded by MuslimsAgstCrusaders on Aug 20, 2011
Held outside the Iranian Embassy, with special addresses from Anjem Choudary and Abu Assadullah.

www.muslimsagainstcrusades.com


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFKukJxYsVc
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- Qatada -
03-23-2012, 03:20 PM
asalaamu alaykum (peace be upon you) :) truthseeker. Here's a good link: http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/490/
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KDhieb
03-23-2012, 06:09 PM
Salam,

I don't know much on this matter but all I can say is that I really dislike that as muslim brothers and sisters we would hurt ourselves with a division as such.. also, one thing i do not understand is when certain individuals lets say either Shia or Sunni, switch... from Shia to Sunni or Sunni to Shia... but then again I really don't know much about this..
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FS123
03-30-2012, 11:55 AM
Let us review the doctrine of 12er Shia first, this is the doctrine that makes 12er Shia a SECT different from the mainstream Muslims and different from other Shia sects:

"The doctrine of Imaamat: Apart from Prophets, there are another group of God appointed persons called Imams. These are people who are infallible and have access to a knowledge that is not accessible by ordinary people. The world cannot be empty of an Imam otherwise it will be destroyed. In the Islamic context, these individuals are 12 people among the descendants of the Holy Prophet who are appointed by no one but God to lead Muslims. Any one who chooses any leader other than these 12 is misguided and not a complete believer. The twelfth (last) of the above Imams is Mahdi and is alive and in occultation (now) for more than 1000 years and will come out of his occultation when God wants".

The above is the core belief of 12er Shia. They consider 5 articles of belief as fundamentals of their religion. These are: Tawheed (Oneness of God) - Nabuwwat (Prophet hood) - Ma'ad (Day of Judgement) - Adl (Justice of God) and IMAAMAT (The above doctrine).

In another way to put it they some times refer to 5 pillars of Islam to be: Prayer, Zakat, Fasting, Hajj and IMAAMAT. They further hold that the latter (Imaamat) is the most important one.

The above shows the importance of Imaamat in Shia doctrine. And when I say Imaamat I don't mean Leadership. Certainly leadership is an important issue not only for Muslims but also for any group of people. Imaamat here means the above specific doctrine.
That is the article of faith in shia fiqh that is not in Quran.

Question One: Where is the doctrine of IMAMAT in Quran ?

This is a very sound question. Quran is the book of guidance and we have been told by the Prophet that whenever we felt lost we can consult Quran and it will never betray us. The above doctrine is not a minor issue, it is very important. It's importance is to the extend that Shia holds that because of not believing in this doctrine, 80% of Muslims are misguided and in fact not true believers. Well, which verses of Quran have given us this doctrine?

Ask Shia to ONLY give you the verses with NO additions to the translation and NO Hadeeth to support a certain interpretation of the verse and NO personal commentaries. Do this and you will see how helpless the arguments will be.

Now when you ask this from a Shia you receive different sorts of answers (and it is interesting that because the discussion is over the net, usually people cannot co-ordinate among themselves and you will receive responses from Shia that are in contradiction to each other and this in turns shows how baseless are the discussions).

For full article go to the following link: http://forums.understanding-islam.co...others-sisters
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FS123
03-30-2012, 11:58 AM
Originally Posted by truthseeker63
Demonstration Against Iranian Persecution of Sunni Muslims
There is persecution of Sunni minority in Iran but that is another issue. It doesn't make shia wrong on theology perspective, my previous post was from theological perspective.
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CosmicPathos
03-30-2012, 10:12 PM
Shia are wrong on theology perspective. When you believe that Aisha (ra) murdered Muhammad pbuh, then something is really **** up in your brain.

The whole cult then starts with this victim mentality. "ooh, our Prophet was murdered, ooh our Imam Ali was snatched off his rightful title, ooh we are so persectud, ooh this, ooh that."
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FS123
03-31-2012, 04:39 PM
Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
Shia are wrong on theology perspective.
I meant shia are wrong on theological perspective, read the post before that. But OP quoted something else which is not a theological issue.
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aa.
01-30-2014, 05:46 PM
OMG!
Muslim: Ya Allah!
Christian: Jesus!
Syi'ah: Ya Ali! or: Ya Hassan! or: Ya Hussein!

Mean, Syi'ah monotheism is no better than Christian, their punctual god is human.
Their ritual ibadah are similar to Islam though.
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Karl
01-30-2014, 10:05 PM
They are both wrong. They are sects and there are no sects of Allah that can be righteous. "God is greatest" end of story. There are only the Muslims. All sects and labels and politics for the appropriation of power over each other is not righteous. Even people of all other religions are the slaves of God even the unbelievers of gods. So why should slaves fight each other for dominion when all dominion belongs to God? Because they have strayed into the service of Satan. And pit self righteousness against others self righteousness in an eternal struggle of evil war.
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Muhammad
01-31-2014, 03:28 PM
:salamext:

Originally Posted by Karl
They are both wrong. They are sects and there are no sects of Allah that can be righteous. "God is greatest" end of story. There are only the Muslims. All sects and labels and politics for the appropriation of power over each other is not righteous.
We cannot say they are both wrong. The Prophet :saws: warned us that there will be splitting in the Ummah, and how to distinguish between the correct path and all the wrong ones.

It was narrated from Mu’aawiyah ibn Abi Sufyaan (may Allaah be pleased with him) that he said: The Messenger of Allaah :saws: stood among us and said: “Those who came before you of the people of the Book split into seventy-two sects, and this ummah will split into seventy-three: seventy-two in Hell and one in Paradise, and that is the Jamaa’ah (main body of Muslims).” [Narrated by Abu Dawood (4597) and others]

The Prophet :saws: also described them in the following terms: “My ummah will split into seventy-three sects, all of whom will be in Hell except one group.” They said: Who are they, O Messenger of Allaah? He said: “(Those who follow) that which I and my companions follow.” [see Jami` at-Tirmidhi; Book 40, Hadith 36]

Allaah :swt: decreed that this division should happen when some groups drifted away from the way of the main body of the Muslims and developed their own different approach, and they were distinguished by their own names and character. Those sects are called after the false beliefs that they introduced or the person who founded the sect. You can see that when you examine the names of all the sects.

As for the people of the Sunnah, their attribution is to the Sunnah of the Messenger :saws: which he himself enjoined to be followed. They have no leader they follow unconditionally except the Prophet :saws:. They follow the Qur’an, Sunnah and scholarly consensus. They are followers of the pious predecessors. Their creed became clear and manifest at the sending of the Messenger of Allah :saws:, in contrast to the creeds of the People of Innovation which were given birth after his time - some of them appeared toward the end of the epoch of the Companions and some of them appeared after that.

It is noteworthy to read what the scholars have said regarding the Ahlus-Sunnah:


Imam ash-Shatibi, al-I'tisam [1/79] said, 'Abdur-Rahman bin Mahdi said, "Malik bin Anas was asked about the Sunnah and he replied: It is that which has no other name but this: the Sunnah, then he recited the verse, And this is my Straight Path so follow it and do not follow other paths lest they misguide you from His Path... (6:153)"'

Ibn al-Qayyim, Madarij as-Salikin [3/179] said, 'One of the Imams was asked about the Sunnah to which he replied: It is that which has no other name but the Sunnah, meaning by this that Ahlus-Sunnah have no title to attribute themselves to, save this.'

Ibn 'Abdul-Barr, al-Intiqa' [p. 35] said, 'A man asked Malik about who Ahlus-Sunnah were and he replied: Ahlus-Sunnah are those that have no epithet that would describe them: neither Jahmi nor Qadari nor Rafidi.'

Even the terms such as 'Ahlus-Sunnah', 'Al-Jama'ah', and other similar descriptions can be traced back to the Hadith and sayings of the Companions or the Salaf.


Ibn Taymiyyah :rh: says in his book on orthodox Sunni creed, Al-Aqeedatul Wasitiyyah:


The Path of Ahlu'l-Sunnah
The path of Ahlu'l-Sunnah wa'l-Jama'ah is to follow the footsteps of the Prophet :saws: inwardly and outwardly, it is to follow the way of the forerunners: the Muhajirun and the Ansar, and it is to follow the Prophet's legacy when he said,

'Hold fast to my Sunnah and the sunnah of the Rightly Guided Caliphs after me. Hold fast to it with the molar teeth. Beware of newly invented matters because every innovation is miguidance.' [Ahmad #17142-17155 and Tirmidhi #2676]

They know that the most truthful words are the words of Allaah and that the best guidance is the guidance of Muhammad :saws:. They give preference to the speech of Allaah over the speech of all the different groups of people, and they give precedence to the guidance of Muhammad :saws: over the guidance of everyone else. It is because of this that they are called Ahlu'l-Sunnah.[1] They are called Ahlu'l-Jama'ah because the word Jama'ah here refers to unifying, the opposite of which is splitting. This holds true even though the term Jama'ah has become the actual name of the people themselves who have united together. The third fundament is consensus (ijma') which is relied on in matters concerning knowledge and religion.

They use these three fundaments to judge everything that people do of speech and deeds, both inward and outward, which is connected to the religion. The consensus that can be accurately ascertained is that which the Righteous Salaf were upon for after then, differences increased and the nation spread.

[1] The author, Majmu' Fatawa, vol.3, pg. 347, said that they were called Ahlu'l-Sunnah because, 'They do not have anyone that they follow, i.e. follow rigidly and unswervingly, save the Messenger of Allaah :saws:. They have the most knowledge of his statements and his conditions. They are the most stringent in discerning the weak from the authentic. Their Imams have deep understanding of them and they fully understand their meanings. They closely follow them in terms of believing them, following them and loving them. They show allegiance to those who show allegiance to (his words and states) and enmity to those who oppose them...'

[Taken from, The Creed of Al-Wasitiyyah, translated by Abu Rumaysah]


So upon studying this, it becomes clear who are the upon the correct way and who have split away from it. We have been directed towards following the Sunnah of the Prophet :saws: and the Sunnah of his Rightly Guided Khalifahs. And sometimes scholars will use terms such as Ahlus-Sunnah in contrast to the shi'a or people of innovation, to clarify what is the way of the Messenger :saws: and to point out the beliefs that oppose it. Let us try to attain and adhere to the qualities of the people of the Sunnah.

I will close this thread now as we already have articles on differences between Sunnis and Shi'as in the section on sects and methodology.

And Allaah :swt: knows best.
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