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Abz2000
03-25-2012, 12:57 AM



































Be grateful for Allah's countless favours, Give more. And if there's not much to give, even empathy for those worse off is a good deed.
you're so hard to please, still, i like the challenge.
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GodIsAll
03-25-2012, 01:06 AM
Thanks, ABZ:

We all need a good dose of reality now and again to put things into perspective.

Sincerely...
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Periwinkle18
03-25-2012, 01:18 AM
jazakAllah khayr

me too v unhappy with lyfe...
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Amat Allah
03-25-2012, 03:55 AM
laa ilaha illa Allah. Ya Rabbi laka Alhamd; kama yanbaghi lejalaali waj'hika wa 3atheemi sultaanik; May Allah have mercy on them Ameeeeen
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tigerkhan
03-25-2012, 06:04 AM
:sl:
insan kisi hal ma khush nhe rehta. that its nature.
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Innocent Soul
03-25-2012, 07:43 AM
^ Human being can not or wont be happy in any circumstances. :unsure:
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Eric H
03-25-2012, 07:56 AM
Greetings and pace be with you Abz2000;

Another reminder that 25,000 children die every day, the result of grinding poverty and preventable disease. In the time it has taken me to write this response, possibly another hundred children have died unnecessarily.

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people

Eric
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J-Dub PDX
03-25-2012, 08:10 AM
It's all about perspective.
Whenever i hear someone complaining about their mundane trivial problems, I just say to them "try living in Gaza".
That shuts them up real quick.

I even have to remind myself sometimes. :hmm:
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Periwinkle18
03-25-2012, 08:32 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by tigerkhan
insan kisi hal ma khush nhe rehta.
thts true
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M.I.A.
03-25-2012, 08:49 AM
i know it pulls on the heartstrings when you see something like the pic.

i remember seeing such things on and off for most of my life.. africa is not a bottomless pit for donations and charity.

maybe a case of mismanagement of funds..i dunno?


teach a man to fish, yadda yadda

i know its never that easy but the reality of the situation may be even stranger than fiction.

i feel for the people, i doubt the infrastructure.


...i dont feed my paranoia but comic relief every year forever.


i mean, bill gates owns an african trust/foundation to eliminate extreme poverty and healthcare issues in africa.. the largest in the world.

maybe the exchange rates are not that good...dunno.


on the flip side, i donated to islamic relief aswell.. so disregard my feelings.
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Endymion
03-25-2012, 11:32 AM
Jazakallahu Khyran for the great reminder.Sometimes i think majority of our problems are a result of over eating.Need to have these reminders daily as im indeed very ungrateful to my Lord imsad
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Ramadan90
03-25-2012, 12:13 PM
Thanks for a GREAT reminder brother!

Happiness is attached to how much we worship Allah. We should be so grateful to have the basic needs in our life. Alhamdulilah.
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جوري
03-25-2012, 12:16 PM
There's a logical explanation why Allah swt created the earth with enough to go around for everone yet the division is incorrect.




and you know who is working to 'maintain' that balance.
Practically everything that is spewed out at people in a calculated methodology is to foster those principles on that stone. Including the torture, enslavement, murder of innocents daily, whether in wars or famines or whatever form.
but hey useful people like Dick Cheney can get a new heart.
So I hope that takes care of the question of why the needed resources aren't going where they're needed.. and I have traveled and born in the heart of Africa and seen first hand what the foreigners do so that outwardly it seems like aid when it is anything but means of enslavement & perpetual forms of dependance and adoration.

:w:
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MustafaMc
03-25-2012, 12:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by لميس
and you know who is working to 'maintain' that balance.
I have personally visited the GA Guidestones and, yes, it is mind blowing to think what it would take to get humanity down to 500 million from nearly 7 billion. That means 13 of 14 people need to die. I don't understand why the ruling elite are so focused on acquiring even more of the earth's resources when they already have obscenely more than what they need.
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جوري
03-25-2012, 12:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by MustafaMc
I have personally visited the GA Guidestones and, yes, it is mind blowing to think what it would take to get humanity down to 500 million from nearly 7 billion. That means 13 of 14 people need to die. I don't understand why the ruling elite are so focused on acquiring even more of the earth's resources when they already have obscenely more than what they need. These people don't have an ounce of compassion in their hearts and surely deserve the harshest punishment in the Hellfire.
It was you akhi who pointed my attention to it, & how mind boggling to me that such a thing can exist so openly-- I don't want to sound like a hypocrite being a doctor and at the same time promoting the idea that the whole concept of birth control and women going to work is just a part of that agenda. I am not surprised 20,000 children die every day anymore than I am surprised that people are sitting around the table to discuss the bloodbaths in Syria or anywhere else for that matter. It is good for the elite few to get rid of most.. But then they didn't create life so why should they care?
First successful heart transplant took place in south Africa and I am willing to bet you know why.
Question of when will the elitists feel satiated and the answer is never-- as the adage my grandmother loved referencing 'Al insaan ma yama'a 3ayno illa at'turab' the only thing that fills man's eyes is grit from the earth, quite literally when they shovel in the earth upon his eyes and body.
The prophet did say that there are people who walk the earth with human bodies but souls of devils...
Islam is the only last thing standing in their way.. so it is an all out ideological war-- the sort that makes them feel free to go to homes and beat a 32 year old mother of five to death:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...6pLid%3D146364

that's if they're not raiding their homes overseas.

:w:
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Ramadan90
03-25-2012, 01:10 PM
The reason why they want to decrease the population is probably because it is much more easier to control 5,000,000 than 7 000 000 000 people. They want to enslave us which in my opinion they already are. We do not have any rights whatsoever. It is very scary when you think about it. Nothing but pure evil.
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Cynosure92
03-25-2012, 01:27 PM
It is really an eye opener for me. Thank you brother. Jazakallah Khayran.
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Abz2000
03-25-2012, 02:37 PM
The reason why they want to decrease the population is probably because it is much more easier to control 5,000,000 than 7 000 000 000 people. They want to enslave us which in my opinion we already are.
They actually say it in their foreign policy lectures

Easier to kill than to control:
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Ramadan90
03-25-2012, 02:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
They actually say it in their foreign policy lectures

Easier to kill than to control:
I am not suprised. May Allah protect us from these pure evil monsters.
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Karimah
03-26-2012, 12:38 AM
Thanks for the reminder and sharing this.
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Futuwwa
03-26-2012, 02:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
They actually say it in their foreign policy lectures

Easier to kill than to control:
The guy was just stating a fact, not making any opinion on what should be done. And I'd be interested in hearing what he said after that. You're only giving half the context. If you think that video constitutes proof that that guy is out to get you, your prejudices have got the better of your critical reasoning skills.
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Sunnie Ameena
03-30-2012, 01:51 PM
Talking about Africa, many of them are dying from malnutrition, while the people who are running the country, are throwing such expensive parties to celebrated something or another, when that money would most definitely be put to better use teaching and feeding and getting medical help to those that need. It makes me sick to my stomach to know that their are many many out there that are going to bed hungry and sick, while the rich are having 7 course meals. I say slap it all on a plastic plate and eat it, expensive china doesn't make it taste better. And have so many rooms in their homes that only a couple are used, while alot of their own citizens sleep on dirt floors in one room. Sorry for the rant, I better stop now, cause I could go on and on. May Allah give peace to those in needs, and open the eyes of those that are not.
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M.I.A.
03-30-2012, 05:16 PM
people in poverty stricken areas should be relocated.

you could probably build a few towns from the ground up with charity monies. somewhere with some reliable rainfall that is for want of a better word..unused.

also it is very definitely a case of mismanagement by those that have the power to change things.

it feels like the world is inept sometimes.. who in there right mind would stay if given a choice? (the management would)

how not to build welfare states... bet that sounds shocking.
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جوري
03-30-2012, 05:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by M.I.A.
people in poverty stricken areas should be relocated.
They're poverty stricken because of greed not because Allah swt hasn't made their region rich in many ways.. Who is controlling all the diamond mines in Africa to name one example?
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M.I.A.
03-30-2012, 05:21 PM
western powers? western companies.

its a joke.

look at these nearly dead people.

send money please.

seriously we've been trying so hard for ages.

just a little more for disease.


i know it sounds crass but if thats what it takes to change the perspective. cure the root of the problem, not the disease.


...cut the whole tree down and plant a new one.
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Abz2000
04-03-2012, 02:12 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Futuwwa
The guy was just stating a fact, not making any opinion on what should be done. And I'd be interested in hearing what he said after that. You're only giving half the context. If you think that video constitutes proof that that guy is out to get you, your prejudices have got the better of your critical reasoning skills.
actually he mentioned the global awakening in the context just before he said that,
and stated clearly that it was a problem - here:



and they have stated their disdain for the rest of humanity on various occasions, here's some from his royal virus:

I don’t claim to have any special interest in natural history, but as a boy I was made aware of the annual fluctuations in the number of game animals and the need to adjust the ``cull’’ to the size of the surplus population.
Preface to Down to Earth by HRH Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, 1988, p. 8.

What has been described as the ``balance of nature’’ is simply nature’s system of self-limitation.
Fertility and breeding success create the surpluses after allowing for the replacement of the losses.
Predation, climatic variation, disease, starvation--
and in the case of the inappropriately named Homo sapiens, wars and terrorism--
are the principal means by which population numbers are kept under some sort of control.

Introduction to ``The Population Factor’’ section of Down to Earth by HRH Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, 1988.

I realize that there are vital causes to be fought for,
and I sympathize with people who work up a passionate concern
about the all too many examples of inhumanity, injustice, and unfairness; but behind all this hangs a deadly cloud. Still largely unnoticed and unrecognized, the process of destroying our natural environment is gathering speed and momentum. If we fail to cope with the challenge, the other problems will pale into insignificance.
The Fairfield Osborne Lecture, New York, Oct. 1 1980.

We talk about over- and underdeveloped countries; I think a more exact division might be between underdeveloped and overpopulated.
The more people there are, the more industry and more waste and the more sewage there is, and therefore the more pollution.
Address to Edinburgh University Union, Nov. 24 1969.


I just wonder what it would be like to be reincarnated in an animal whose species had been so reduced in numbers than it was in danger of extinction. What would be its feelings toward the human species whose population explosion had denied it somewhere to exist.... I must confess that I am tempted to ask for reincarnation as a particularly deadly virus.
Prince Philip, in his Foreward to If I Were an Animal; United Kingdom, Robin Clark Ltd., 1986.



In the event that I am reincarnated, I would like to return as a deadly virus, in order to contribute something to solve overpopulation.
Reported by Deutsche Press Agentur (DPA), August, 1988.


and their disdain for monotheism and love of paganism (which is promoted by satan) is not hidden either:

It is now apparent that the ecological pragmatism
of the so-called pagan religions,
such as that of the American Indians, the Polynesians, and the Australian Aborigines,
was a great deal more realistic in terms of conservation ethics than the more intellectual
monotheistic philosophies
of the revealed religions.

Press conference at the National Press Club in Washington, D.C.
on the occasion of the ``Caring for Creation’’ conference of the North American Conference on Religion and Ecology, May 18, 1990.


The object of the WWF is to ``conserve’’ the system as a whole; not to prevent the killing of individual animals. Those who are concerned about their conservation of nature accept that all species are prey to some other species. They accept that most species produce a surplus that is capable of being culled without in any way threatening the survival of the species as a whole.
The Chancellor’s Lecture, Salford University, June 4, 1982.


so please do research urself before rushing to defend them.

And you see those in whose hearts there is a disease , they rush to their friendship, saying: "We fear lest some misfortune of a disaster may befall us."
Perhaps Allah may bring a victory or a decision according to His Will. Then they will become regretful for what they have been keeping as a secret in themselves.



53. And those who believe will say: "Are these the men (hypocrites) who swore their strongest oaths by Allah that they were with you (Muslims)?"
All that they did has been in vain (because of their hypocrisy), and they have become the losers.



54. O you who believe! Whoever from among you turns back from his religion (Islam), Allah will bring a people whom He will love and they will love Him; humble towards the believers, stern towards the disbelievers, fighting in the Way of Allah, and never afraid of the blame of the blamers. That is the Grace of Allah which He bestows on whom He wills. And Allah is All-Sufficient for His creatures' needs, All-Knower.


55. Verily, your Wali (Protector or Helper) is Allah, His Messenger, and the believers, - those who perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give Zakat, and they bow down (submit themselves with obedience to Allah in prayer).


56. And whosoever takes Allah, His Messenger, and those who have believed, as Protectors, then the party of Allah will be the victorious.
Quran Chapter 5
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Eric H
04-03-2012, 06:57 AM
Greetings and peace be with you Abz2000;

What has been described as the ``balance of nature’’ is simply nature’s system of self-limitation.
Fertility and breeding success create the surpluses after allowing for the replacement of the losses.
Predation, climatic variation, disease, starvation--
and in the case of the inappropriately named Homo sapiens, wars and terrorism--
are the principal means by which population numbers are kept under some sort of control.

Introduction to ``The Population Factor’’ section of Down to Earth by HRH Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, 1988.
I am not sure what right Prince Phillip has to comment on the causes of war, terrorism and breeding; he has done very little to earn his privileged position. In order for him to live with his wealth, millions go without

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people

Eric
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Futuwwa
04-03-2012, 10:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
actually he mentioned the global awakening in the context just before he said that,
and stated clearly that it was a problem - here:

That's still waaaaaaaaay too out of context to really tell what he's even advocating. All he states is that some "global political awakening" (which we don't really hear what it's even about because you don't give context) poses some ill-defined "challenges" (which we don't really know what he means by either, since again, you're showing things out of context.

So what's essentially left when you don't make a prejudiced interpretation of what he means is: Big (and ill-defined) things are happening, and how to deal with them poses a challenge (for ill-defined reasons).

But you just had to fill in the blanks and interpret it as: "Big things are happening, the poor people are catching on to our sinister plans for world domination and subjugation, and the big challenge is how to subjugate them and bring our plans to fruition despite us having been exposed by intrepid NWO conspiracy theorists on Internet forums".
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Futuwwa
04-03-2012, 10:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Allah<3
The reason why they want to decrease the population is probably because it is much more easier to control 5,000,000 than 7 000 000 000 people.
Incorrect. 7 billion may be 14 times more people to control than half a billion, but it also gives 14 times more economic resources with which to control people.
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noorseeker
04-03-2012, 11:45 PM
We all know we are in a better position than those poor muslims in those pictures.

But what makes me angry with my self is even though i know that, im still ungrateful.

it just dont sink into my head.
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جوري
04-04-2012, 12:18 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Futuwwa
Occupationpwn star.
How's the money & politics of the 'pwn industry'?

best,
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Abz2000
04-04-2012, 01:24 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Futuwwa
So what's essentially left when you don't make a prejudiced interpretation of what he means is: Big (and ill-defined) things are happening, and how to deal with them poses a challenge (for ill-defined reasons).

But you just had to fill in the blanks and interpret it as: "Big things are happening, the poor people are catching on to our sinister plans for world domination and subjugation, and the big challenge is how to subjugate them and bring our plans to fruition despite us having been exposed by intrepid NWO conspiracy theorists on Internet forums".
yo pwn star, get ur facts right, the whole speech is even worse
do people need to spell everything out by posting voluminous videos for your executive blessing instead of you doing ur own research b4 looking like a troll?
i wont continue debating ith you lest it goes off topic like most of the threads you post on, including the one where you imply the prophet pbuh was a socialist (astaghfirullah).

here's a longer section of the speech for other readers who may havebeen unfortunate enough to read ur post.



and yes, regarding your jibe about the nwo, he clearly states his disdain for a diversified leadership and pushes heavily for a "new world order".
that man's a cold blooded serpent, he doesnt have any qualms with causing humanitarian disasters in order to get his political aims acheived:



btw, does pwn star mean wot i think it does or does it mean that u keep getting pwned for ill informed trolling??
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Abz2000
04-04-2012, 01:41 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Futuwwa
Originally Posted by Allah<3
The reason why they want to decrease the population is probably because it is much more easier to control 5,000,000 than 7 000 000 000 people.

pwn star:
Incorrect. 7 billion may be 14 times more people to control than half a billion, but it also gives 14 times more economic resources with which to control people.
maybe u never heard of the georgia guidestones, which a member posted earlier in the thread, here's a zoomed shot in case you dismised it as flawed interpretation:



ironic part is that the majority of those who push for population reduction dont commit suicide and also have children themselves.
and worse still, the people whom they contantly target have a food, water, materials, carbon etc footprint of less than one 20th (5%) of what the average american consumes.
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noorseeker
04-04-2012, 06:53 AM
Has this thread topic changed :hmm:
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جوري
04-04-2012, 09:45 AM
Not necessarily .. We need a root cause analysis as to why there's such a disparate contrast between those who make the laws and those that live by them given that they hold office allegedly in a 'free & democratic' way because we apparently voted them there. This so-called system can't and isn't perfect if the end result is as seen on the first page. It's as though we're animals devouring the weaker in our midst in lieu of taking care of them which in fact a task Allah swt delegated to us.

:w:
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Sunnie Ameena
04-04-2012, 03:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H
I am not sure what right Prince Phillip has to comment on the causes of war, terrorism and breeding; he has done very little to earn his privileged position. In order for him to live with his wealth, millions go without
That is so totally true. All these billionaires and millionaires, just frustrates me. I would not be happy with that kind of money, because I know that others could benefit from that kind of money. The rich have more money that they could ever spend in their lifetimes, and then some of them have children that really don't even have to work, because they are provided for, and their money just grows interest. Don't get me wrong, I do not begrudge rich people from their money, it is just that a small fraction of that money could help those that are in desperate need of irrigation, water, seeds to have crops, and at least basic medical care. Celebreties spend money like 20,000 for a purse, or a dress, that is just rediculous. I even seen on the news where someone left their cat 30,000,000.00. If I had that money, I would definitely give it to those that need. Sorry for the rant, but when I see many in need, and no one really makes an effort to help them in the long term, it just drives me crazy and makes me so sad. And then there are those that want to kill many so we are not over populated, so I wonder if the ones who want to do this, if their name would be on the list to exstinguish. Surely not, because they have money to buy their way out. Okay, I am done.
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جوري
04-04-2012, 03:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sunnie Ameena
a small fraction of that money could help those that are in desperate need of irrigation, water, seeds to have crops, and at least basic medical care.

Sahih International
And when it is said to them, "Spend from that which Allah has provided for you," those who disbelieve say to those who believe, "Should we feed one whom, if Allah had willed, He would have fed? You are not but in clear error."

Those so-called rich people didn't get so obscenely rich through hard work they did so on the blood of the poor. They go colonize, start wars and bleed people literally & figuratively out of everything so they can wear $24000.00 dressed and complain of their battle with depression.
Maybe just maybe if they walked a day in one of those people's plastic bottle shoes they'd see thing differently but even if/when they do charity the whole world has to hear of their benevolence & they come out and self-congratulate... Sob7an Allah
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Sunnie Ameena
04-04-2012, 03:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by لميس
Maybe just maybe if they walked a day in one of those people's plastic bottle shoes they'd see thing differently but even if/when they do charity the whole world has to hear of their benevolence & they come out and self-congratulate... Sob7an Allah

That is so very true. I see those sad pictures on tv and the internet, and it makes me cry. Or the hungry people, I can not even describe how it makes me feel. Just imagine if each person in the world (I think that is over 7 billion), donated just one dollar, they could help so many with just a dollar.
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جوري
04-04-2012, 03:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sunnie Ameena
That is so very true. I see those sad pictures on tv and the internet, and it makes me cry. Or the hungry people, I can not even describe how it makes me feel. Just imagine if each person in the world (I think that is over 7 billion), donated just one dollar, they could help so many with just a dollar.
Imagine still that one individual can balance the economy of an entire continent. I remember once a TV presenter speaking about some Indian steel tycoon with if you'd count his fortune it would take you 19 years. You wonder how many suits they can put on in one day with that kind of money.. I guess that kind of money deadens the heart.
Anyhow I don't care what they do so long as they get off their high horse and stop telling others to have kids or not have kids especially when their own off spring which they have almost out of a fad are so messed up and useless in every way.

Here's Madonna's daughter being useful like her mother:

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Sunnie Ameena
04-04-2012, 03:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by لميس
Anyhow I don't care what they do so long as they get off their high horse and stop telling others to have kids or not have kids especially when their own off spring which they have almost out of a fad are so messed up and useless in every way.
Here's Madonna's daughter being useful like her mother:
Sister I could have said it better myself.
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Sunnie Ameena
04-04-2012, 03:41 PM
Sorry, I meant to say that I could not have said it better. Thinking faster than I type. lol.
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Futuwwa
04-04-2012, 04:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
yo pwn star, get ur facts right, the whole speech is even worse
do people need to spell everything out by posting voluminous videos for your executive blessing instead of you doing ur own research b4 looking like a troll?
It is generally accepted that the one who makes a positive statement takes on the burden of proof. Not the one who doubts.

format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
i wont continue debating ith you lest it goes off topic like most of the threads you post on, including the one where you imply the prophet pbuh was a socialist (astaghfirullah).
If I remember correctly, I think it was Omar ibn al-Khattab I said that about. But of course, the Prophet was one too. Workers of the world, la ilaha illAllah!

format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
here's a longer section of the speech for other readers who may havebeen unfortunate enough to read ur post.

And the part where he says any of what you think he says? All he said there was more of the same, the world is much more politically aware than before, and that that somehow complicates geopolitics.

format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
and yes, regarding your jibe about the nwo, he clearly states his disdain for a diversified leadership and pushes heavily for a "new world order".
that man's a cold blooded serpent, he doesnt have any qualms with causing humanitarian disasters in order to get his political aims acheived:

And the part about the New World Order (TM)? ^o)

The only "humanitarian disaster" he's talking about in that video is the casualties the mujahideen will inflict on the Soviet Union thanks to American aid. If he were an Islamic ruler arming the mujahideen, you would be praising him to the skies.
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جوري
04-04-2012, 04:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Futuwwa
It is generally accepted that the one who makes a positive statement takes on the burden of proof. Not the one who doubts.
It is also generally accepted that once one presents their proof that they're under no further obligation to convince you of it. You can take it or leave it no?

format_quote Originally Posted by Futuwwa
If I remember correctly, I think it was Omar ibn al-Khattab I said that about. But of course, the Prophet was one too. Workers of the world, la ilaha illAllah!
Does this not qualify under a 'positive statement' for which you're required to provide proof?

format_quote Originally Posted by Futuwwa
And the part where he says any of what you think he says? All he said there was more of the same, the world is much more politically aware than before, and that that somehow complicates geopolitics.
I guess this requires a certain flexibility on your cognition.. I am not sure why you singularly are missing what is obvious?

best,
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Futuwwa
04-04-2012, 05:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by لميس
It is also generally accepted that once one presents their proof that they're under no further obligation to convince you of it. You can take it or leave it no?
Not really. Calling something proof doesn't make it so. Taking a rock and calling it proof does not fulfil the burden of proof. I have refuted his alleged proof, shown why it is inadequate. That means the ball is in his court.

If you disagree, let's play the game by the rules you are supporting. I have a rock here next to me which proves that you are evil. Now disprove that.

format_quote Originally Posted by لميس
Does this not qualify under a 'positive statement' for which you're required to provide proof?
Why would it? I never made any assertion to the effect. Abz made an assertion regarding what I think, and I agreed.


format_quote Originally Posted by لميس
I guess this requires a certain flexibility on your cognition.. I am not sure why you singularly are missing what is obvious?
If it's so obvious, you should have no difficulty proving it to be true. Go on, pwn me.
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جوري
04-04-2012, 05:15 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Futuwwa

Not really. Calling something proof doesn't make it so. Taking a rock and calling it proof does not fulfil the burden of proof. I have refuted his alleged proof, shown why it is inadequate. That means the ball is in his court.

If you disagree, let's play the game by the rules you are supporting. I have a rock here next to me which proves that you are evil. Now disprove that.
I haven't seen any refutations on your part. Making a statement of assertion doesn't qualify as a refutation no matter how fervent you're in that public display of conviction.


Why would it? I never made any assertion to the effect. Abz made an assertion regarding what I think, and I agreed.
Alleging that the prophet PBUH and Umar Ibn ilkhtaab built a socialist state or were themselves socialists or promoted socialism contradicts Islamic ideology, jurisprudence, governance etc and requires proof on your part. There's no point throwing statements around, not backing them up with evidence yet by the same token rebuffing aside what is blatantly obvious to everyone else or does being objectionable garner needed attention?


If it's so obvious, you should have no difficulty proving it to be true. Go on, pwn me.
?? The difficulty is only had on your part, I don't see anyone else having the same problem, thus it is something that you need to work on, on your own private time I don't see why anyone should care to steer your very skewed beliefs when you're obviously quite happy having them?

best,
Reply

Futuwwa
04-04-2012, 05:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by لميس
I haven't seen any refutations on your part. Making a statement of assertion doesn't qualify as a refutation no matter how fervent you're in that public display of conviction.
I'll make a refutation when there is something to refute. Abz has so far only posted videos that he claims are evidence without telling us how they constitute that. I've objected that there's nothing in them that makes his particular interpretation of them inevitable. His is the burden to show that they are, which he hasn't, he simply makes a lot of just-so statements about what's in them.

format_quote Originally Posted by لميس
Alleging that the prophet PBUH and Umar Ibn ilkhtaab built a socialist state or were themselves socialists or promoted socialism contradicts Islamic ideology, jurisprudence, governance etc and requires proof on your part. There's no point throwing statements around, not backing them up with evidence yet by the same token rebuffing aside what is blatantly obvious to everyone else or does being objectionable garner needed attention?
I didn't "throw the statements around", it was Abz who took up the whole thing as if it would somehow be relevant to the discussion. Which it isn't. I'm under no obligation to, for the purpose of this discussion, post proof for something I said in a completely unrelated thread a long time ago.

format_quote Originally Posted by لميس
?? The difficulty is only had on your part, I don't see anyone else having the same problem, thus it is something that you need to work on, on your own private time I don't see why anyone should care to steer your very skewed beliefs when you're obviously quite happy having them?
So in other words, you think your position is so obviously true that you could easily prove it, but act on the assumption that anyone who disagrees must be a malicious brat who wouldn't accept the proof anyway and thus you won't bother. Sorry, that's not how discourse works.

And you presume much if you think everyone else here agrees 100% with the conspiratorial rants of Abz and you, simply because they don't bother to state explicit disagreement.
Reply

جوري
04-04-2012, 05:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Futuwwa

I'll make a refutation when there is something to refute. Abz has so far only posted videos that he claims are evidence without telling us how they constitute that. I've objected that there's nothing in them that makes his particular interpretation of them inevitable. His is the burden to show that they are, which he hasn't, he simply makes a lot of just-so statements about what's in them.
As stated previously and I so hate redundancy and taking up web-space for a circuitous journey that objections don't a refutation make! Do you actually understand what the term means? It means you bring evidence to the contrary not merely depict your own rendition to what has been clearly stated. Also as they say a picture is worth a thousand word, well in this case I think a video is worth a million for it is directly stated and not reinterpreted through a third party, which is in fact what you are doing here.


I didn't "throw the statements around", it was Abz who took up the whole thing as if it would somehow be relevant to the discussion. Which it isn't. I'm under no obligation to, for the purpose of this discussion, post proof for something I said in a completely unrelated thread a long time ago.
It is relevant in that it enables the reader to chronicle your history here and foregrounds your understanding of what is presented. You can take an Islamic shura system and turn it into a socialist system so who is to say you don't take any given point of view to your own desired rendition?



So in other words, you think your position is so obviously true that you could easily prove it, but act on the assumption that anyone who disagrees must be a malicious brat who wouldn't accept the proof anyway and thus you won't bother. Sorry, that's not how discourse works.
I don't assign a moral value to your principles but you can't expect to throw around terms like 'refutation' and not have that to be scrutinized.

And you presume much if you think everyone else here agrees 100% with the conspiratorial rants of Abz and you, simply because they don't bother to state explicit disagreement.
Then why bother all together pwn star? You can't be that lazy do you subscribe to the notion that when a professor hands you homework with which you disagree that all that is incumbent upon you to do is merely state your aversion? You always have the option of dropping out or evincing your statement with something other than 'conspiracy theory' it isn't a theory when it is a fact and you're under the sheets in lala land..

best,
Reply

Futuwwa
04-04-2012, 06:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by لميس
As stated previously and I so hate redundancy and taking up web-space for a circuitous journey that objections don't a refutation make! Do you actually understand what the term means? It means you bring evidence to the contrary not merely depict your own rendition to what has been clearly stated. Also as they say a picture is worth a thousand word, well in this case I think a video is worth a million for it is directly stated and not reinterpreted through a third party, which is in fact what you are doing here.
Actually, refutation does not require positive contrary evidence. A demonstration for how the evidence of the opponent is insufficient/invalid is a refutation as well. That's what I did, I took apart his argument. I demonstrated how what Brzezinski said does not at all have to imply what Abz thinks. I attack his argumentation and debunk it, and that's valid refutation. To refute Abz's assertion, I don't need actual positive evidence that Brzezinski is a nice guy who loves kittens and who'd never harm a fly.

format_quote Originally Posted by لميس
It is relevant in that it enables the reader to chronicle your history here and foregrounds your understanding of what is presented. You can take an Islamic shura system and turn it into a socialist system so who is to say you don't take any given point of view to your own desired rendition?
So because I made an assertion that you consider incorrect on one completely unrelated thread, my position in this thread is invalid? Sorry, that's a non sequitur and an ad hominem fallacy.


format_quote Originally Posted by لميس
I don't assign a moral value to your principles but you can't expect to throw around terms like 'refutation' and not have that to be scrutinized.


Then why bother all together pwn star? You can't be that lazy do you subscribe to the notion that when a professor hands you homework with which you disagree that all that is incumbent upon you to do is merely state your aversion? You always have the option of dropping out or evincing your statement with something other than 'conspiracy theory' it isn't a theory when it is a fact and you're under the sheets in lala land..
And this has exactly what to do with the part you quoted?
Reply

جوري
04-04-2012, 06:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Futuwwa

Actually, refutation does not require positive contrary evidence. A demonstration for how the evidence of the opponent is insufficient/invalid is a refutation as well. That's what I did, I took apart his argument. I demonstrated how what Brzezinski said does not at all have to imply what Abz thinks. I attack his argumentation and debunk it, and that's valid refutation. To refute Abz's assertion, I don't need actual positive evidence that Brzezinski is a nice guy who loves kittens and who'd never harm a fly.
You've shown no invalidity in his statements which was in large part evinced by the speaker himself- all ABZ did was bring it to the attention of the reader to which one is left to draw their own conclusion. You often conclude differently from the pack but it doesn't make you a free thinker since you have given no clause to establish that free thought with something other than the assertion itself. It makes you objectionable and no more! Your closing statement is really a microcosm of how your mind works. He can love kittens and not harm a fly all the same but be in the sports of hunting people So where does that leave your unassailable convictions?
So because I made an assertion that you consider incorrect on one completely unrelated thread, my position in this thread is invalid? Sorry, that's a non sequitur and an ad hominem fallacy.
I suggest you look at the definition of both those terms since neither is applicable here. Our conclusion has followed from your original premise with which you have a long history here, notice I haven't insulted you personally as you yourself are apt at doing!


And this has exactly what to do with the part you quoted?
Which part was difficult for you to understand?
Reply

Abz2000
04-05-2012, 12:54 AM
let me spell it out to you pwn star, hopefully you'll understand better if i use simple language.
zbignew brzezinski, he baaad maaan
he say people waking up to injustices, he say this no good.
he thinker for u.s government policy, he suggests solutions.
he say in other video people waking up, hard to control people, easier to kill 1 million people than to control them.
u understand how to put 2x=4 together and find two?
or u see something else implied there
maybe u see xxx?
Reply

Futuwwa
04-05-2012, 09:50 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
he say people waking up to injustices, he say this no good.
No, he doesn't. He says that it poses new challenges.

"Poses challenges" is not synonymous or implicative of "No good". Any big change poses challenges, even if the change is inherently good.
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