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sister herb
04-20-2012, 09:45 PM
Saudi Arabia: Beheadings for ‘witchcraft’
Published: 19 April, 2012, 12:38
Edited: 19 April, 2012, 12:38



A Sri Lankan woman is currently facing decapitation by sword on a witchcraft charge in Saudi Arabia, in accordance with Wahhabism, a strict form of Sunni Islam.

The UN reports executions tripled in the kingdom in 2011.


A Saudi man complained that in a shopping mall his 13-year-old daughter “suddenly started acting in an abnormal way, which happened after she came close to the Sri Lankan woman,” reports the daily Okaz.


After the local man denounced the Sri Lankan for casting a spell on his daughter, police in the port city of Jeddah found it sufficient cause to arrest the woman.
Witchcraft and sorcery imply only one measure in Saudi Arabia – beheading. And it works this way in practice: last year in the kingdom at least two people – a woman in her 60s and a Sudanese man – were beheaded on witchcraft charges.


In the absolute monarchy that Saudi Arabia is, a criminal code does not exist per se. Court sentences are based on Islamic Sharia law on the interpretation of judges.
No sticking your neck out under Sharia law


Capital punishment is applied regularly and indiscriminately to locals and foreign citizens.


According to Sharia law, crimes that imply capital punishment are numerous. It could be anything from murder and terrorism to apostasy, idolatry and blasphemy.


Still, Sharia law leaves a loophole for those who have money. In the case of murder, the “eye for an eye” principle of Islamic law allows capital punishment to be replaced with Diyya (“Blood money”) ransom paid by the family of the killer – if the bereaved family agrees.


In oil-rich Saudi Arabia, the number of wealthy citizens is off the chart and the sum of Diyya could reach millions of dollars. But for those millions of guest workers who do most of the work in Saudi Arabia, this is definitely not an option. In case they are found guilty of a capital crime, execution by beheading is the only option left to them under Sharia law.


The beheading of Indonesian national Ruyati binti Sapubi in 2011 sparked a widely-discussed scandal. The 54-year-old woman, who worked as a maid, was sentenced to death after she confessed of murdering her employer with a kitchen knife after suffering abuse.


With about 1.5 million Indonesians working in Saudi Arabia, many of them as maids, the ruling caused an outcry in Indonesia, which even considered banning its women from working in the kingdom. After the Saudi Arabian ambassador officially apologized for the incident, the initiative was left in oblivion.


The cases of mistreatment of maids, who came in waves to Saudi Arabia in the recent past, received a different attitude of national justice. In April 2011, a Saudi woman convicted of torturing her Indonesian maid successfully had her conviction quashed on appeal.


In January 2012 the United Nations human rights office expressed concern with increased number of executions in Saudi Arabia. Compared to 2010 when 26 people got capital punishment rulings for various crimes, in 2011 there have been 76 executions in the kingdom.


Among the beheaded were at least three women and 11 foreigners.

http://rt.com/news/saudi-arabia-sharia-beheading-435/
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جوري
04-20-2012, 10:17 PM
medieval and barbaric is really a matter of perspective, who is laying out the ground rules for the title? There's a different kind of witch hunt that goes on in the civilized west.. of course this one uses is drones, framing, baiting, imprisonment without trial, or millions of dollars spent to take away people's rights at free speech. I really wouldn't be quick to point the finger when the situation on the other side is equally laughable if not more..

:w:
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TrueStranger
04-20-2012, 11:57 PM
Being a minority in Saudi Arabia is not the best thing, but can't RT present this news in a professional manner and not to try to create hype.
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جوري
04-21-2012, 12:03 AM
what's the point of passively relaying current affairs without using it as a tool to inflame some and manipulate others?
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Pygoscelis
04-21-2012, 06:33 AM
When you have something this insane there is really no reason to play it up. People in today's day and age being "beheaded for witchcraft" is a special level of crazy.
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جوري
04-21-2012, 07:01 AM
Yes indeed fishing out 73 year old men and putting them in a concentration camp in a remote island off the coast of Florida for nearly a decade without charging them with a crime or trial in this day and age is a new kind of crazy.. Well at least KSA is a sovereign state not baiting foreign nationals into its soil for a beheading or sending their drones out to kill little kids as they're collateral damage. What a strange world we live in indeed
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marwen
04-21-2012, 07:03 AM
Witchcraft is suchh a horrible thing and is kufr, death is nothing compared to it. If Allah ordered to kill sahir (witch) then it's obligatory to do it in an islamic country following the shariah, and it's the job of the ruler to do it. The ruler should also estabish proof that someone is really doing witchcraft.
http://islamqa.info/en/ref/82201
That's from a pure islamic perspective. We have to avoid rejecting Allah's commandements. When and how to practice it, it's another thing.

But now are KSA rulers really practicing sharia, that's another issue too. Personally I guess KSA rulers are contradicting and disobedeying sharia from political perspective, and are betraying the ummah by persecuting ulama' who criticize their policy, after that are they legitimately able to practice shariah ? I dunno.
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TrueStranger
04-21-2012, 07:12 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
When you have something this insane there is really no reason to play it up. People in today's day and age being "beheaded for witchcraft" is a special level of crazy.
And I guess Same Sex Marriage doesn't appear to be a new level of insanity for "people in today's world"?
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True-blue
04-21-2012, 07:48 AM
I wonder why people of Today's day even perform witchcraft (activities)!
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Samiun
04-21-2012, 02:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by True-blue
I wonder why people of Today's day even perform witchcraft (activities)!
:sl: I think one of the reasons could be money. There was a case of a witch-craft that is known in Jakarta that makes a living and lots and lots of money by helping politicians for his own benefit. It seems strange how he could ride in a mercedes-benz without getting arrested, then again maybe he could use his money to shut the authorities up. Of course, he's one of the few thousands maybe hundreds of thousands of people who practice witchcraft in South-East asia and we use the term 'bomoh' (Bo Moh) to describe them
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sister herb
04-21-2012, 02:47 PM
Saudi Arabia too use torturing as investigation method to get confessions like they want.

Torturing is not accepted in islam. Right?
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GuestFellow
04-21-2012, 03:27 PM
Salaam,

How on Earth was this proved in court? You cannot execute people without strong evidence.

Moving on, Saudi Monarchy is a disgrace to allow foreigners to be mistreated. How can this disgusting monarchy occupy Mecca and Medina? I don't even know why some Muslims defend the monarchy. All members of the Saudi monarchy who are involved in corruption and going against Islam ought to be executed. As for the Saudis who mistreat their workers and maid, they are vile and deserve to be lashed.
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جوري
04-21-2012, 03:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sister harb
Saudi Arabia too use torturing as investigation method to get confessions like they want.
Can you provide evidence that torture was used here?
I am always impressed by people's ability to pass a judicial ruling on cases they have not sat for, and to more often than not side with the perpetrator than the victim..
Poor sergeant so & so had PTSD but no sympathy for 17 mothers and children killed in cold blood and torched in the night. .. or is that not medieval & barbaric?
People should really question their own ridiculous practices before pointing the finger.
Practicing paganism in whatever form including that which is intended to cause harm to others through stupid means (whether or not harm is afflicted) is punishable by death. People should think twice before acting out.

best,
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Perseveranze
04-21-2012, 04:28 PM
I'll reserve judgement... The last time a similar case came, we later found out that the person executed for "witchcraft" was actually making money scamming people, telling them their fortune etc.

But I don't deny Saudi's justice system is corrupt/inconsistent.
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Pygoscelis
04-21-2012, 11:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
And I guess Same Sex Marriage doesn't appear to be a new level of insanity for "people in today's world"?
I can't tell if you are serious. You would really consider two guys getting married as more crazy and evil than beheading somebody after accusing them of "witchcraft"? If you had to choose, would you take the Salem witch trials over some gay pride parade?
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TrueStranger
04-21-2012, 11:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
I can't tell if you are serious. You would really consider two guys getting married as more crazy and evil than beheading somebody after accusing them of "witchcraft"? If you had to choose, would you take the Salem witch trials over some gay pride parade?
Witches were killed for witchcraft for ages, as for "two men/women getting married". That is obviously something new and completely insane to say the least.
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GuestFellow
04-21-2012, 11:33 PM
@ Pygoscelis

I admit, your post made me ROLF.
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Pygoscelis
04-21-2012, 11:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
How on Earth was this proved in court? You cannot execute people without strong evidence.
Something like this is never proved in court in any rational way. Historically they'll do something like tell the witch to prove they are not one, or set them on fire or submerge them in water to see if they live or die. If they die then they were not a witch. If they live then they are a witch so they get killed.

In more modern times it may be more practical to get the person to confess they are a witch (through torture or coerciion) or prove that they are doing strange rituals. The person in question may actually believe they are holding some sort of power (which can't be proved) or may have purported to such as those late night infomercials for crystals, psychic phone networks, ouiji boards, etc.

What qualifies as "doing witch craft"? Does the person have to actually have some power or are guys like Yuri Gellar (exposed fraud), Pen & Teller (show magicians who tell you it isn't real), etc at risk of execution?

lol I honestly did not know that people in today's day and age still actually believe in witchcraft. I thought that went out with the lucky rabbits foot and magic 8 ball.
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جوري
04-22-2012, 02:17 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
Something like this is never proved in court in any rational way. Historically they'll do something like tell the witch to prove they are not one, or set them on fire or submerge them in water to see if they live or die. If they die then they were not a witch. If they live then they are a witch so they get killed.
What the hell are you talking about? is this the idiots guide to 'witchcraft'?
In more modern times it may be more practical to get the person to confess they are a witch (through torture or coerciion) or prove that they are doing strange rituals. The person in question may actually believe they are holding some sort of power (which can't be proved) or may have purported to such as those late night infomercials for crystals, psychic phone networks, ouiji boards, etc.
These people use extortion and lies to manipulate people and that is a punishable crime!
What qualifies as "doing witch craft"? Does the person have to actually have some power or are guys like Yuri Gellar (exposed fraud), Pen & Teller (show magicians who tell you it isn't real), etc at risk of execution?
People go to said individuals and ask them to do harm, whatever crap they do is ineffectual anyway since no harm befalls anyone through the 'voodoo' done by a quack. The intent to do harm even if the measures are laughable is a punishable crime.. was that difficult to understand?

lol I honestly did not know that people in today's day and age still actually believe in witchcraft. I thought that went out with the lucky rabbits foot and magic 8 ball.
It isn't a matter of belief or disbelief.. it is the same thing as using 'preemptive measures' to imprison or drone Muslims whose opinions you don't agree with because they're 'terrorists' thinking Islamic thoughts gets you droned and by the same token the application is to 'witchcraft' people who intend to do harm by said means are punished by death.

Hope that clears things up for you.. you seem to have difficulty grasping simple concepts.

best,
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Pygoscelis
04-22-2012, 07:24 AM
Have any of you checked up on or debunked the story?

format_quote Originally Posted by Article
A Saudi man complained that in a shopping mall his 13-year-old daughter “suddenly started acting in an abnormal way, which happened after she came close to the Sri Lankan woman,” reports the daily Okaz.

After the local man denounced the Sri Lankan for casting a spell on his daughter, police in the port city of Jeddah found it sufficient cause to arrest the woman.
If this is true then it has nothing to do with the Sri Lankan woman intending anybody harm or even doing anything whatsoever. It is an accusation made by a man with no stated basis beside seeing his daughter acting abnormally. And the police arrested her based on that? Sounds just like Salem.

Are we missing something? Or are things really that insane in that country?

Edited to add: Did a little digging because I don't know the site this article is from and it didn't look legit to me. Turns out it likely is legit. Here is the reuters link http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...83H0UM20120418
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GuestFellow
04-22-2012, 09:48 AM
^ Foreigners are mistreated, especially if they are poor.
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cOsMiCiNtUiTiOn
04-22-2012, 01:15 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
Have any of you checked up on or debunked the story?



If this is true then it has nothing to do with the Sri Lankan woman intending anybody harm or even doing anything whatsoever. It is an accusation made by a man with no stated basis beside seeing his daughter acting abnormally. And the police arrested her based on that? Sounds just like Salem.

Are we missing something? Or are things really that insane in that country?

Edited to add: Did a little digging because I don't know the site this article is from and it didn't look legit to me. Turns out it likely is legit. Here is the reuters link http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...83H0UM20120418
The article you quoted provides no information. Do you know about the trial, what evidences they found against her? First of all, she only got arrested, not beheaded. Second, the article mentions this at the end:

In December, Amnesty International condemned the beheading of a woman in Saudi Arabia convicted on charges of "sorcery and witchcraft," saying it underlined the urgent need to end executions in the kingdom.
Amnesty said the execution was the second of its kind last year. A Sudanese national was beheaded in the Saudi city of Medina in September after being convicted on sorcery charges, according to the London-based group.


TWO people in a year. It's not like they are doing a mass execution of suspects, these two people went through trials, which you were not a part of. They will not just behead any person on an accusation, there's rules to be followed when applying sharia law. It may sound harsh to you, but if you understood magic properly, your opinion would be different. You cannot compare the Salem witch trials to how Muslims deal with magicians. During the prosecutions of the Salem trials they did not follow appropriate steps to find them guilty or innocent, they dealt with the situation in a very ignorant manner. In Islam, it is not that difficult to tell real magicians apart from the rest, if you are well learned in Islam. A person who corrupts society with this stuff cannot be allowed to keep corrupting. But of course in modern day, as majority is in deep slumber, magic is seen like some kind of joke or game. THAT is what is insane to me.

Magic is a very serious crime, and while the rest of the world (in specific the west) learns to tolerate corruption and the ridiculous behavior of people now a days, at least in some places some kind of order is still kept, soon with all this tolerance and softness towards sin, that won't be the case.


- cOsMiC
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GuestFellow
04-22-2012, 02:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis

Are we missing something? Or are things really that insane in that country?
Speaking of insanity, don't you think it is insane for a bunch of men, marching down the street, half-naked, some wearing skimpy clothing, singing and dancing about gay-rights? Who knows, next year, they might start copying bollywood and start parading in the middle of a railway or on top of a skycraper.
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aamirsaab
04-22-2012, 02:33 PM
I actually read about a similar story before and from what they said, the police actually used entrapment to flush out the magician (in this particular case, it was a man who was apparently able to predict the future - I think he was from sudan), so I can appreciate people's scepticism on the matter.

This being said, from what I know of Saudi's legal mentality, it is a completely different ball game so I'm kind of on the fence of the matter. I've never been even remotely exposed to the magic/witchraft as described in Islam so I can't say much (i.e. if it is indeed true, I doubt the magic/witchcraft is anything like what us living in the west know of).

Similarly, I also know that there's a lot of under-handedness regarding this matter so it's difficult to consider as truth.

Regarding the punishment, it is difficult to justify given based on the evidence shown in the article. As you all know by now, there's a scale of punishments to mete out various crimes depending on their severity in Islam (and most forms of jurisprudence I'd imagine).

Going solely on the article, it says the victim began to act abnormal after she had gotten close to the perpetrator. So what we have is a vaguely described affect that by all accounts seems to have been blamed on a random person (sounds a lot like a witch hunt if I'm honest) - imo, death penalty sounds a little too harsh in this circumstance.

Again, this is going based on the article. We don't know anything about the trial - perhaps this was a real deal scenario, but based solely on the article, it does look like a witch hunt from ye old days.

I'm hoping she had a fair, islamic trial, but a huge part of me says otherwise.
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جوري
04-22-2012, 03:40 PM
This article does nothing for me other than the usual barrage of bull**** that they dish out everyday to conform to the same agenda of anti Islamic rhetoric.
Oh look at 'sharia law' oh look the rest of the 7c simpletons want to implement 'sharia law' which is barbaric, antiquated, absurd... etc. etc.
sharia law is a witch hunt, a woman's nightmare a 'free person's oppression.
Half of the time I don't want to even dignify it. Although I heard from one of my preceptors of late to be careful if I go make pilgrimage that they'll hang me for being a witch haha I thought.. I told him there's a different kind of with hunt going on here which I have more of a chance of being a victim of.

WaittabaAAoo ma tatloo alshshayateenu AAala mulki sulaymana wama kafara sulaymanu walakinna alshshayateena kafaroo yuAAallimoona alnnasa alssihra wama onzila AAala almalakayni bibabila haroota wamaroota wama yuAAallimani min ahadin hatta yaqoola innama nahnu fitnatun fala takfur fayataAAallamoona minhuma ma yufarriqoona bihi bayna almari wazawjihi wama hum bidarreena bihi min ahadin illa biithni Allahi wayataAAallamoona ma yadurruhum wala yanfaAAuhum walaqad AAalimoo lamani ishtarahu ma lahu fee alakhirati min khalaqin walabisa ma sharaw bihi anfusahum law kanoo yaAAlamoona
2:102 They followed what the evil ones gave out (falsely) against the power of Solomon: the blasphemers Were, not Solomon, but the evil ones, teaching men Magic, and such things as came down at babylon to the angels Harut and Marut. But neither of these taught anyone (Such things) without saying: "We are only for trial; so do not blaspheme." They learned from them the means to sow discord between man and wife. But they could not thus harm anyone except by Allah's permission. And they learned what harmed them, not what profited them. And they knew that the buyers of (magic) would have no share in the happiness of the Hereafter. And vile was the price for which they did sell their souls, if they but knew!


Again, never a question of if you drown you weren't a witch and if you fly away you're... I can't stand the simpleton mind of westerners and their approach to every problem with the same simpleton level of consciousness that concocted it. They can't for a minute step outside the box that is their two brain cells held together by a spirochete to conjecture that there's a whole other world out there that doesn't think and act similarly to them only on a more inferior level as that would require an entire paradigm shift to brain gears that are only set a certain way and have rusted as such..
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Pygoscelis
04-22-2012, 09:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
Speaking of insanity, don't you think it is insane for a bunch of men, marching down the street, half-naked, some wearing skimpy clothing, singing and dancing about gay-rights? Who knows, next year, they might start copying bollywood and start parading in the middle of a railway or on top of a skycraper.
It is pretty crazy yes. It is the pendulum swinging too far in the opposite direction, which happens all too often. But put it in a little perspective. They are not killing anybody on dubious grounds. They are just being silly.
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Pygoscelis
04-22-2012, 09:07 PM
Just wanted to note that it is pretty telling that when I called this bit of news insane (which it clearly is) the instant knee jerk response was to call things in the west insane as if that is somehow relevant. We should be capable of seeing both kinds of witch hunt for what they are. One does not make the other any less crazy or bad.
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جوري
04-22-2012, 09:09 PM
If it is justifiable from one end it is justifiable from the other.. It is a different kind of reasoning and understanding.
It doesn't make others insane.. makes the convictions different. half the world is insane to the other and unfortunately for atheists they can't distinguish the difference..

best,
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Salahudeen
04-22-2012, 09:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sister harb
Saudi Arabia: Beheadings for ‘witchcraft’
Published: 19 April, 2012, 12:38
Edited: 19 April, 2012, 12:38



A Sri Lankan woman is currently facing decapitation by sword on a witchcraft charge in Saudi Arabia, in accordance with Wahhabism, a strict form of Sunni Islam.
Since when did the application of shariah become wahabism? :hmm: If I'm not mistaken, beheading the magicians was a commandment from the 2nd calipha of Islam. Were they upon wahabism at that time too :hmm:

It is narrated by Bukhari, on the authority of Bajalah Ibn `Ubadah, that he said: "`Umar Ibn Al-Khattab (ra) wrote: "Execute every sorceror and sorceress." "So, continued Bajalah," we executed three sorcerors."

And it is reported authentically from Hafsah (may Allah be pleased with her) that she ordered the execution of her slave for practising magic upon her, and she was executed. Such an event has also been reported from Jundub (ra). According to Imam Ahmad, execution of sorcerors is authentically reported from three Companions (i.e. `Umar, Hafsah and Jundub ra ).
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Pygoscelis
04-22-2012, 09:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by لميس
If it is justifiable from one end it is justifiable from the other..
That is my point. It isn't justifiable on either end and tribal blindness doesn't change that. Such blindness is on both "sides" and it isn't pretty. I just visited a evangelical and conservative board and saw EXACTLY the same kind of post before I saw it here, just from the other direction.
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جوري
04-22-2012, 09:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
That is my point. It isn't justifiable on either end and tribal blindness doesn't change that. Such blindness is on both "sides" and it isn't pretty. I just visited a evangelical and conservative board and saw EXACTLY the same kind of post before I saw it here, just from the other direction.
Actually you have no point since this is a judicial matter of which you know nothing. & I wish you'd actually admit that, rather than ensnaring everyone into an already faulty premise!

best,
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IslamicRevival
04-22-2012, 10:26 PM
Court sentences may be based on Sharia but on the grand scheme of things, are the Saudis really practicing Islamic Law in its entirety? I highly doubt it thus this incident should not be linked to Islam in any way, shape or form. They dont represent anyone but themselves
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MustafaMc
04-22-2012, 11:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
If this is true then it has nothing to do with the Sri Lankan woman intending anybody harm or even doing anything whatsoever. It is an accusation made by a man with no stated basis beside seeing his daughter acting abnormally. And the police arrested her based on that? Sounds just like Salem.
I have an issue with the article for the reason you have stated. The last I knew, the accusation does not mean guilt unless you're a Musilm. Then you end up getting sent to Gitmo or on the receiving end of a drone or Navy Seal attack. I am concerned that others are so willing to take the life of another with little proof of guilt and due process of law.
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
lol I honestly did not know that people in today's day and age still actually believe in witchcraft. I thought that went out with the lucky rabbits foot and magic 8 ball.
Let's not forget that you do not believe in anything from the unseen world which is fundamental to Islam. You do not believe in God, angels, jinn, Satan, Hell, Heaven, etc whereas I as a Muslim do even though I have no way to prove their existence. Yes, I believe in the ability of people to deal in witchcraft, sorcery, fortunetelling, vodoo, the occult, Satan worship etc as an interaction with the jinn. This is forbidden in Islam and, if proven, then the punishment for it in the country where it is a crime will be carried out.
format_quote Originally Posted by aamirsaab
Going solely on the article, it says the victim began to act abnormal after she had gotten close to the perpetrator. So what we have is a vaguely described affect that by all accounts seems to have been blamed on a random person (sounds a lot like a witch hunt if I'm honest)
This also sounds quite flaky to me that a child acted strange and a woman's life hangs in the balance. I agree it sounds in a way like a mini-witch hunt like Salem, Massachussets had on a massive scale.
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Muhammad
04-23-2012, 12:12 AM
:sl: and Greetings,

As mentioned by a couple of others, it's important to separate two issues here: the existence of witchcraft and its being a major sin in Islam, and this particular story whose accuracy and consistency with Shariah Law are unknown from the little we know.
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MustafaMc
04-23-2012, 02:13 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muhammad
:sl: and Greetings,

As mentioned by a couple of others, it's important to separate two issues here: the existence of witchcraft and its being a major sin in Islam,
I agree that it exists and that it is a major sin.
and this particular story whose accuracy and consistency with Shariah Law are unknown from the little we know.
I also agree that little factual information is known. The Western media often twists events to suit their ends. Others may correct me if I misremembered, but seems like there was a show on TV about the 'oppression of women' in Afghanistan immediately before the attacks of 9/11. The show actually had video of a woman being executed for adultery. I remind everyone the quote by Benjamin Franklin, "Believe none of what you hear (or read in the media) and half of what you see."
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BlissfullyJaded
04-23-2012, 03:25 AM
^ The media also failed to show that there was a man being executed as well, not just a woman. I remember being bored, so was flipping through the TV stations and stopped at a Korean station cuz I saw Muslims, and then figured out there was more to the footage than we typically are shown.
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Pygoscelis
04-25-2012, 05:03 PM
Here is a similar story I found a link to at another forum discussing this same issue:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...hcraft-psychic

'...A Lebanese TV psychic condemned to death for witchcraft by a Saudi court while visiting the country will not be beheaded, his lawyer said today.

May al-Khansa said that the Saudi ambassador in Beirut informed the Lebanese justice minister that the execution of Ali Sibat would not take place.

"He confirmed to me that there will be no execution," al-Khansa said after her conversation with Ibrahim Najjar, Lebanon's justice minister. She refused to go into details but said "matters are going in the right direction".

"We have faith in Saudi Arabia's judicial system," she added, noting that Sibat's actions are not considered a crime in Lebanon.

Sibat is one of scores of people reportedly arrested every year in the Islamic kingdom on charges of practising sorcery, witchcraft, black magic and fortune-telling, which are considered to be polytheism by the ultra-conservative Saudi judiciary.

The father of five was arrested by religious police while making a pilgrimage to the holy city of Mecca in May 2008 and was sentenced to death last November.

Sibat, 49, made predictions on a satellite TV channel from his home in Beirut, where psychics, fortunetellers and astrologers operate freely. Many have regular TV and radio shows. Some cafes even hire them to attract more customers. On 31 December, they jostle for air time to give their predictions for the new year.

According to his lawyer, Sibat was the most popular psychic on his channel, especially among callers from the conservative Gulf.

After Mecca, Sibat went to Medina to pray at the Mosque of the Prophet. At his hotel, members of the religious police who enforce the kingdom's strict Islamic lifestyle spotted him and grabbed him.

Earlier this week, a Saudi judicial official said the country's highest appellate court had upheld the death sentence and asked the nation's supreme judicial council to set a date for the execution.

Saudi newspapers have reported that the court of cassation had first rejected the case and asked the lower tribunal to offer Sibat a chance to repent. It was not clear if he was given that chance.
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LauraS
04-26-2012, 07:28 PM
I'm surprised not to see more compassion for this woman, instead the thread has to turn argumentative. I know there are those that say in Islam witchcraft is prohibited and we have no idea what went on in the trial, but in your heart of hearts to you truly believe this old woman is guilty of witchcraft? Just because a 13 year old girl started acting strangely, what proof is this that it is witchcraft? And yes I think this can be compared to Salem, because then it was a 14 year old girl pretending to have fits and causing mass hysteria. We think of all the witch hunts that took place centuries ago and feel sympathy for those accused because we know they weren't guilty, they have had a wart or glanced at someone who then fell ill the next day. Sounds similar to this, what power does an old lady have that she walks next to a girl and makes her ill?
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جوري
04-26-2012, 07:58 PM
How about you go to KSA interview all parties including the defendant and tell us how it is?.. third party information is much like third party compassion lacks a certain believability.

best,
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LauraS
04-27-2012, 10:05 AM
All anyone needs for this case is common sense. I think some on here know this woman does not possess any such power or inclination to "cast a spell" over a girl who simply walked near her, but because admitting it would mean criticising a Muslim court you won't say your true feelings. If this was a case of non-Muslims however...do you believe all those people executed years ago in Europe were truly witches?
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Muhammad
04-27-2012, 02:38 PM
Greetings Laura,

format_quote Originally Posted by LauraS
I'm surprised not to see more compassion for this woman, instead the thread has to turn argumentative. I know there are those that say in Islam witchcraft is prohibited and we have no idea what went on in the trial, but in your heart of hearts to you truly believe this old woman is guilty of witchcraft? Just because a 13 year old girl started acting strangely, what proof is this that it is witchcraft?
That is the point expressed by many posts in this thread - it is difficult to believe a woman would be accused of witchcraft based on this. That is why we are saying the full details of this story remain to be ascertained, as it is not uncommon for truth to become twisted especially when 'Shariah Law' is being presented to non-Muslim readers.
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Pygoscelis
04-27-2012, 06:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muhammad
Greetings Laura,

That is the point expressed by many posts in this thread - it is difficult to believe a woman would be accused of witchcraft based on this. That is why we are saying the full details of this story remain to be ascertained, as it is not uncommon for truth to become twisted especially when 'Shariah Law' is being presented to non-Muslim readers.
I agree but I also note that I was the only one who made the least bit of effort to bebunk it, and in doing so only found other sources confirming it. So my reaction stands.
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Abz2000
04-27-2012, 11:00 PM
it's not just ksa where they arrest people based on complaint, but it happened to me in England, this guy told me i "look like a terrorist" so i slapped him - ON CAMERA, and he fell to the floor, he called the police and told them i had pulled a knife on him and demanded £50 and had then punched him - despite the whole incident being recorded on 5 different cameras from different angles. well, they arrested me for armed robbery, we went through the footage during the interview, and they still remanded me and i wasn't released for 3 days until court, finally the court gave me a hefty fine and an addition to my record, AND a suspended sentence - for assault by beating. and refused to even look into all the lies the guy had told, despite perverting the course of justice carrying a much heavier sentence.
and yes, they have also stopped me on my way to Muslim protests and asked me where i'm going and why, using "there was a fight just back there" (near my house) as an excuse.
that's hypocrisy.

secondly, the description the lamestream media gave of the events - those are not grounds for executing someone in Islam, even a lay scholar can tell you that. yes, maybe they have to investigate based on the complaint, though that doesn't sound like grounds to hold someone in detention or to even send them to court.

thirdly, people involved in the saudi monarchy have admittedly been trying to use media to turn the youth away from Islam and from struggle against despots and criminal invaders -
(source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...usewives-saudi )

so i wouldn't put it past them to be using stupid and ridiculous cases to discredit Islam themselves - though we can't say for sure that this is the case in this matter unless we get more info.

fourthly, they are capable of bullshi*ting openly with wide eyes things like : "there is no doubt that iraq had weapons of mass destruction" - and some of us seem to swallow it hook line and sinker every time.
how can one even take their words at face value - ask any court if they accept the testimony of proven liars.

fifthly - i am disgusted that a member put up an article misrepresenting shariah without even clarifying her position on the matter, especially given her past hate against our respected scholars who have been martyred for speaking the truth.
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Abz2000
04-27-2012, 11:39 PM
welcome to the forum laura, may God make you benefit from the opinions of this diverse community.

i notice you also read this thread: http://www.islamicboard.com/world-af...ml#post1444345

format_quote Originally Posted by Asiyah3
Others are sold into prostitution while a few are either killed or tortured in black magic rituals. NAPTIP says it has also seen a trend of illegal adoption.
and are probably aware of the fact that whether or not these sick people who practice witchcraft have an effect or not, the crimes they commit are sickening and some of them deserve beheading.

human sacrifice - especially infant sacrifice, is something that these pagans revel in and see as the utmost pinnacle of pleasing their "dark lord satan".


Satanic rituals and human sacrifice, especially of children, are performed on a vast scale and involve some of the most famous politicians, business people, media owners and entertainers on the planet. Of course they do. It would be amazing if they did not, given the background.

These rituals and human sacrifice have always been the foundation of the Brotherhood ’religion’ since ancient times. And the Brotherhood manipulates its Satanic initiates and ’gofers’ into the positions of political, economic, business, military, medical and media power, and into influential positions in the world of entertainment.


Therefore the ratio of Satanists and child sacrifices at the top of these professions and institutions is staggeringly high compared with the general population. Apparently, according to former Satanists I have met and read about, some world politicians are addicted to blood taken from a victim at the moment of sacrifice because of the adrenaline which is produced at that time. I am told this addiction is quite common among Satanists,

the queen of england's ancestry goes back to vlad dracul according to charles himself,
(SOURCE: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/ear...a-forests.html ).

another sick and bloodthirsty tyrant. and the current elite bloodlines all seem to be intertwined and joined by occult masonry (previously templars) babylonian kabbalist rituals, and satanism, and they even hold huge pagan midsummer celebrations at bohemian grove while burning a child in effigy.



and yes, they include presidents, international bankers, media barons, and other politicians and influential people from the highest positions in decision making. and not surprisingly - some meet there first, and then go onto become presidents one after the other despite being previously obscure to the public.



Summer, 1967 at Owls Nest Camp with two future U.S. presidents.
Around the table, left to right: Preston Hotchkis,


Ronald Reagan
,


Harvey Hancock
(standing),


Richard Nixon
,


Glenn T. Seaborg
, Jack Sparks, (unidentified individual), (unidentified individual), and


Edwin W. Pauley
. Retrieved July 15, 2009.


and they loved this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleister_Crowley

so i'm sure you'd agree that witchcraft is something to take seriously.

here's more if you're still sceptical: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCOF2WmNHOk
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Pygoscelis
04-28-2012, 02:25 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
it's not just ksa where they arrest people based on complaint, but it happened to me in England, this guy told me i "look like a terrorist" so i slapped him - ON CAMERA, and he fell to the floor, he called the police and told them i had pulled a knife on him and demanded £50 and had then punched him - despite the whole incident being recorded on 5 different cameras from different angles. well, they arrested me for armed robbery
You are right. They should have arrested you for assault, not armed robbery. Not unless they had more evidence.

And um.. I have to admit.. I honestly can not tell if that last post was serious or parody. Poe's law at work.
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LauraS
04-28-2012, 04:28 PM
Abz2000- Hi, yeah I read that thread and those people are disgusting. However, weren't they murdering children they believed to be possesed? I can't remember. Of course people misguided and ignorant people attempt to carry out magic and if it involves harming people or animals they should be punished. In that case it appears to have been an overreaction on the part of the father, the woman wasn't in the middle of the shopping centre carrying out a child sacrifice, according to reports she simply came into contact with the girl. I wonder if any more will come out about it soon?

Also it would have been better if you hadn't have punched that man, you should have just have remained calm and shown yourself to be the better person.
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May Ayob
01-17-2013, 02:14 AM
I know this is kind of late but the article above doesn't actually give any sound proof or evidence that the sri lankin woman is a witch crafter by any means. Did the father ever consider that his daughter might be suffering from medical conditions? How can they be so hasty in making such a decision without even providing evidence you can't spillblood that easily and get away with it this is just too much.I really hope they dont execute her. I believe she is innocent.
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جوري
01-17-2013, 02:23 AM
In fact we don't know what went down in the courtroom or outside of it to speak one way of her guilt or innocence. It has always been a judicial matter.
At any rate there's a group of rabid maids in Saudi that have been slaughtering families, I just posted an article about the matter, so it isn't so inconceivable that some folks are criminals and that news especially that which comes out of the west about Islam or Muslims in general, are meant to shape a particular brand of public opinion.
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May Ayob
01-17-2013, 06:08 PM
Thankyou for the reply.
I 'think' I am aware of the fact that there are crime happening by people working in there but the text or what I've read and maybe I'm missing somethinb here is that the girl started acting in an abnormal way when she came in contact with the woman, I'm afraid maybe I might face the same fate if the same incident happened to me and I'm also afraid that I'll be trying to figure out exactly *why* shoulc I be held convicted of somethinb I havd not made.If I were to be arreted for that one and only reason I think I deserve to know *why* I am being treated in this way and to be honet the way I see it although I maybe wrong is that this is only a matter of bias,discrimination and down right prejudice another way to 'clear up ' immigrants by being suspiious of them and then assigning them to e ecution because they are 'scary' and 'untrustworthy'. Also I don't understand why there should be an outrage
and hatred for someonecommiting the sin witchcraft almost always goes against its master in firt place and it does more harm to the one who is practising it than the one who its plotted against. Beides theres always room for repentance
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May Ayob
01-17-2013, 06:12 PM
Soryy I had some trouble finishing my first post. But yeah mainly theres nothing really to prove the woman is practicing witchcraft there should be more compassion and it doesn't hurt if theh treated immigrants in a kinder manner I mean there nothing to lose is there. I maybe wrong but I think this is a case of suspiicion and creulty.


Thank you.
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GuestFellow
01-17-2013, 06:46 PM
We don't know what happened.
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May Ayob
01-17-2013, 07:04 PM
^ True. Hopefully everything turns out good.Let's leave it there.
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LauraS
01-17-2013, 09:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by شَادِنُ
At any rate there's a group of rabid maids in Saudi that have been slaughtering families, I just posted an article about the matter, so it isn't so inconceivable that some folks are criminals
I don't know about any rabid maids but I find it inconceivable that this woman has such powerful "magic" that she caused a girl to fall ill merely by "being close to her".
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جوري
01-17-2013, 09:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by LauraS
I don't know about any rabid maids but I find it inconceivable that this woman has such powerful "magic" that she caused a girl to fall ill merely by "being close to her".
those are two separate issues- I have made a separate thread on the latter topic with the purpose of showcasing that not all Saudis are maid haters and abusers, nor are all maids poor beaten down trodden women just looking to make an honest living in fact some of them stab children to death 20~30 times.
I don't personally agree with having live in maids but that is a personal issue and a personal opinion, sort of like the personal opinion you closed your own post with. It is irrelevant what you or I think of the case as I have stated and repeatedly, it is a judicial issue. We didn't sit for the case nor know of all the variables to judge any of the characters- also refer to my earlier posts on the subject of 'witchcraft' itself. I have amply clarified it and don't feel like repeating myself.

best,
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Muezzin
01-17-2013, 10:51 PM
Is the story in the first post even true? There are (conveniently?) no names provided for any of the parties, though the accused is described as a 'Sri Lankan woman'.

Also, this thread is nearly a year old at the time of writing this post. What's with the bumpage? Come on guys.
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جوري
01-18-2013, 12:19 AM
beats me.. not enough sob stories in the world I guess.. folks got used to the blood baths in Syria and it has no effect anymore so let's cry our guts out over a story we know nothing of!
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ardianto
01-18-2013, 01:50 AM
Many of Indonesian workers in Saudi actually are "the traditionalist Muslims". And usually before they go to Saudi they make consultation with local "traditionalist" Islamic teachers to make them safe, and respected by other people in their jobs in Saudi. Regarding to it, sometime those "traditionalist" Islamic teacher give them stuff that we know as Taweez, or even amulet. And it would becomes a problem if their employers know that those workers have these stuff because these stuffs are categorized as magic stuffs in Saudi.
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جوري
01-18-2013, 03:22 AM
Allah A3lam About all that.
I can tell you that I have people in my family living in the gulf with live in maids, one cousin for instance has a Filipino who lied about being Muslim, lied about being married and lied about having a kid.. and yet he hired her anyway and she's treated very well she says that she got very lucky with my cousin's family. I don't like him hiring a maid I don't like for people to work in servitude in general but it is better than prostitution and I don't like the fact that she lied either but people do what they do and it is never what it appears on the surface!
So we can't really judge any case. People lie all the time about most minor things.

:w:
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Darth Ultor
01-18-2013, 03:35 AM
Saudi is an Islamic state? I didn't think an Islamic state existed since the Ottoman Empire disbanded.
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sister herb
01-18-2013, 09:43 AM
Was The Ottoman Empire islamic state?
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Darth Ultor
01-18-2013, 02:48 PM
They had a Caliph so I assumed so.
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May Ayob
01-18-2013, 02:53 PM
@Muezzin -Sorry,I apologize it was my fault,I just haven't been here for a while and this thread caught my attention.
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colinberry1
09-01-2016, 08:08 PM
Wow, in today's day and age, the mind boggles, and people still go there for work, we must be a bunch of sickos.
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M.I.A.
09-01-2016, 08:17 PM
spooky..

reminds me of ex machina.

I'm showing you a move! if you don't like it look away..

said the executioner.. probably.


in the worst terms, sometimes I blame my sister in law for stuff.. when in reality it's probably something I've done..

:/

to be fair they should just lock them all up and have witch fights..

or use witches to power the lectric for the city..

or create an Arab mk ultra..

or deport those charged.. or maybe parachute them into enemy territories.

...or train them as occult soldiers.. for King zerkses or whatever.

strange days.. although no laughing matter if someone points the finger at you.



...am still thinking about the Arab prince holidaying of the coast of turkey...on a yacht...full of bikini clad women..

bad bad.. bad.
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IARLG
09-02-2016, 04:27 AM
Asaalam alykum Brother(s)/Sister(s), to know more about magicians please read the following article.

http://aljumaareminder.com/reminder/...th-rajab-1437/

The article is the first of many in a series in the website above. You can download the whole set of series below the article named, "IARLG - Jinns & Magicians – Articles 67-71, 74-80, 113-120, 123, 125-136"

Regards,
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colinberry1
09-02-2016, 08:12 AM
Wow, I never look at magicians in the same way again, witchcraft, so that's how some people make all that money, no wonder they say money is the root of all evil, and just asked yourselves who owns all that money in the world.
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M.I.A.
09-02-2016, 12:48 PM
you do?

o_0


...as a shopkeeper, I know this.


alhamdulillah I'm kidding.

Allah swt does..

probably?


...why you ask such a hard question eh?


maybe they don't like the move?

maybe I didn't like the move?

...could do better.
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Serinity
09-02-2016, 12:56 PM
:salam:

If the one executed indeed was a witchcrafter, then the punishment was Just. What a befitting punishment for those who do evil.

And Allah :swt: knows best.
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M.I.A.
09-02-2016, 12:59 PM
...tumult and oppression is worse than death.

although your post rings true.


the difference between when you work for me..

and when I work for you.
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Serinity
09-02-2016, 01:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by M.I.A.
...tumult and oppression is worse than death.

although your post rings true.
Anything that makes one a disbeliever/and that causes corruption is worse than death.
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M.I.A.
09-02-2016, 01:09 PM
I'm not sure, some of the strongest belief is established in adversity.

honestly only the heedless deny.

all praise is due to Allah swt..

may he give us good character.


I guess we await all the right moves in all the right places..

make do.
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Muhammad
09-02-2016, 01:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
Is the story in the first post even true? There are (conveniently?) no names provided for any of the parties, though the accused is described as a 'Sri Lankan woman'.

Also, this thread is nearly a year old at the time of writing this post. What's with the bumpage? Come on guys.
Make that over four years old!
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