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ILuvAllah
04-28-2012, 10:25 PM
It was during the period of high Muslim apogee: 8th-13th centuries that most decisive scientific inventions were made, and the foundations of modern civilisation were laid, scientists and scientific discoveries in their thousands, artistic creativity, great architecture, huge libraries, hospitals, universities, mapping of the world, the discovery of the sky and its secrets, and much more.

"It will suffice here to evoke a few glorious names without contemporary equivalents in the West: Jabir ibn Haiyan, al-Kindi, al-Khwarizmi, al-Fargani, al-Razi, Thabit ibn Qurra, al-Battani, Hunain ibn Ishaq, al-Farabi, Ibrahim ibn Sinan, al-Masudi, al-Tabari, Abul Wafa, 'Ali ibn Abbas, Abul Qasim, Ibn al-Jazzar, al-Biruni, Ibn Sina, Ibn Yunus, al-Kashi, Ibn al-Haitham, 'Ali Ibn 'Isa al-Ghazali, al-zarqab, Omar Khayyam. A magnificent array of names which it would not be difficult to extend. If anyone tells you that the Middle Ages were scientifically sterile, just quote these men to him, all of whom flourished within a short period, 750 to 1100 A.D."


I would love to know how these great scholars obtained their knowledge. Is it possible today? I think not. Where would we get to learn all subjects from an Islamic perspective? Dont you think we should make a change to this? If we want to see change, we should be the change.

When would Islam return? I read in Ibn Kathir's book. I forgot the hadith but it says something like Islam would return as a stranger.
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GuestFellow
04-28-2012, 10:33 PM
Salaam,

It doesn't matter whether a Muslim or non-Muslim discovered new things. All regions go through a process of discovering new stuff. :/

There is no secular world. I would say it is the most influential at the moment.
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ILuvAllah
04-28-2012, 10:39 PM
It seems most influential to you? you are living in deception. Wake up akhi. and you prefer this secular world rather than a khilafah? Im surprised.
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ILuvAllah
04-28-2012, 10:42 PM
watch this lecture

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GuestFellow
04-28-2012, 10:42 PM
^ Ah where did I say I prefer the secular world over the caliphate? I said it seems to be the most influential. It does not mean I support it.

Who are you to say who is living in deception? Do you have vast knowledge to determine who is living in deception and those who are illuminated? How humble of you.
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ILuvAllah
04-28-2012, 10:46 PM
You said there is no secular world. A world without sharia is a secular world.

All religions go through discoveries yes but the Muslims were the pioneers.

Anyway, I dont want to fight or argue, please watch the lecture if you can.
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ILuvAllah
04-28-2012, 10:49 PM
Dr Bilal Philips on Islamization of Education

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GuestFellow
04-28-2012, 10:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Iluv♥Allah
You said there is no secular world. A world without sharia is a secular world.
Let me make myself clear.

When I said, there is no secular world, I mean secularism does not influence all countries around the world. This ideology does not dominate the globe. A good example is Saudi Arabia, where some of the laws are based on Islam and not on secularism. I said secularism is more influential at the moment, especially in western countries.

How does the above equate to me not wanting the Sharia?

Besides, just because Sharia is not the most influential, it does not mean the world is secular. You can have Christianity that can be more influential.
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GuestFellow
04-28-2012, 10:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Iluv♥Allah

Anyway, I dont want to fight or argue, please watch the lecture if you can.
Not fighting or arguing. Just putting my points across clearly.
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ILuvAllah
04-28-2012, 10:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
Let me make myself clear.

When I said, there is no secular world, I mean secularism does not influence all countries around the world. This ideology does not dominate the globe. A good example is Saudi Arabia, where some of the laws are based on Islam and not on secularism. I said secularism is more influential at the moment, especially in western countries.

How does the above equate to me not wanting the Sharia?

Besides, just because Sharia is not the most influential, it does not mean the world is secular. You can have Christianity that can be more influential.
With due respect. I disagree. but I dont want to :argue:
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GuestFellow
04-28-2012, 11:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Iluv♥Allah
With due respect. I disagree. but I dont want to :argue:
What do you specifically disagree with?

You do not have to address my points. Feel free to ignore me. :p:
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ILuvAllah
04-28-2012, 11:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
What do you specifically disagree with?

You do not have to address my points. Feel free to ignore me. :p:
Whats the point brother? you obviously wouldnt agree with my views. but if you wish to talk about it, you can send me a pm otherwise this thread would go off topic and the mods would lock it.

Dont think I'm disagreeing with you because I didnt find anything to say. It is a common nature of people to think that you lost or you are scared just because either you apologize or you avoid an argument. I am not accusing you though.
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ILuvAllah
04-28-2012, 11:19 PM
I remember the old fight with you but my anger was not upon you, it was on that hypocrite SorayaCali. I am not a mean person but if anyone try to insult Allah or the Prophet then I can be mean. I was very mean but it was not on you, so you got the idea that I am not humble.
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Scimitar
04-28-2012, 11:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Iluv♥Allah
I would love to know how these great scholars obtained their knowledge.


And there is a playlist you will like a LOT :)

here you go: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...0&feature=plcp

Scimi

EDIT:

format_quote Originally Posted by Iluv♥Allah
but the Muslims were the pioneers.
I would have to say that they were pioneers in some instances, and revivalists in others, and whatever they revived, they improved upon.

Infact, Europe, didn't even know what soap was til the Muslims showed them - during the crusades. Yep, the Europeans were a stinky bunch of people lol. And today they have the nerve to call us smelly paki's and stuff... they should facepalm themselves.

In fact - Europe owes its Renaissance to the Muslims. Ungrateful idiots.

Scimi
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ILuvAllah
04-28-2012, 11:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar


And there is a playlist you will like a LOT :)

here you go: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...0&feature=plcp

Scimi
Thanks brother scimi :)
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Scimitar
04-29-2012, 12:02 AM
You're welcome sister...

You are gonna love this (everyone does)



No, it's not a feature film... it's just those 13 minutes. But it's excellent isn't it? :)

Scimi
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BlissfullyJaded
04-29-2012, 01:51 AM
Sayyidina 'Umar (Radiallahu Anhu) once stated: "We were of the most disgraced of people, and Allah granted us honor through Islam. Now, whenever we seek honor in other than that which Allah honored us with, Allah shall disgrace us (once again)."

Our love for the world outweighs our love for the akhira. Sometimes going to the masjid makes it fairly easy to understand why we are where we are.

And to be fair, we're not really innovative anymore. We don't seek answers, we just go with the flow. Muslims live their going through the motions expected of them: get an education, get a job, get a car, get married, get a nice house, have a couple kids, and then wait for the kids to grow up so they can repeat the cycle, hopefully more successfully than you did so that you can brag to your friends. Education is not really about seeking knowledge, it's not about taking risks and doing something new, it's about making money.

About the hadeeth that you asked for: "Islam began as a stranger and shall return as a stranger as it began. So give glad tidings to the strangers".
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Scimitar
04-29-2012, 03:39 AM
I so get told I'm strange - or weird... that post just cheered me up. :statisfie

Scimi
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ILuvAllah
04-29-2012, 03:52 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by BlissfullyJaded
Sayyidina 'Umar (Radiallahu Anhu) once stated: "We were of the most disgraced of people, and Allah granted us honor through Islam. Now, whenever we seek honor in other than that which Allah honored us with, Allah shall disgrace us (once again)."

Our love for the world outweighs our love for the akhira. Sometimes going to the masjid makes it fairly easy to understand why we are where we are.

And to be fair, we're not really innovative anymore. We don't seek answers, we just go with the flow. Muslims live their going through the motions expected of them: get an education, get a job, get a car, get married, get a nice house, have a couple kids, and then wait for the kids to grow up so they can repeat the cycle, hopefully more successfully than you did so that you can brag to your friends. Education is not really about seeking knowledge, it's not about taking risks and doing something new, it's about making money.

About the hadeeth that you asked for: "Islam began as a stranger and shall return as a stranger as it began. So give glad tidings to the strangers".
Great post. it cheered me up as well. I couldnt explain it any better, we really need to make a change.
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ILuvAllah
04-29-2012, 03:58 AM
Islamic education is primary, it should be the priority to the Muslims atleast, then secular education is secondary so that you can identify the lies they are teaching you. For eg, Eisenstein was the inventor of mathematics, a big lie by the jews cause he was a jew as well. God knows what other lies they are teaching to our children and youth!
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Scimitar
04-29-2012, 04:08 AM
Einstein was Jew? I thought he was an agnostic...

Scimi
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GodIsOne
04-29-2012, 04:17 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
Einstein was Jew? I thought he was an agnostic...

Scimi
Virtually all of those Zionist Ashkenazi Jews are agnostic. Don't let the rabbis and synagogues fool you, we can clearly see their disbelief.
It still hasn't stopped any of them from trying to claim Israel as a god given homeland ;D
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ILuvAllah
04-29-2012, 04:18 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
Einstein was Jew? I thought he was an agnostic...

Scimi
yes he was a Jew bro.
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TrueStranger
04-29-2012, 04:42 AM
We are so terrified of the world around us today that we push ourselves into the darkest corner available. The world is filled with fitna, and the progression of failure has dramatically escalated. We tend to reject anything that could slightly challenge any perception we hold of the world, and the negativity associated with innovation of the deen has sometimes been wrongfully applied to worldly innovation. We feel the need to categorize everything into haraam and halaal - the two extremes. Instead of understanding our situation and environment properly, we try to forcefully detach ourselves from our current time. Some are reminiscing of the Golden Ages, and others are dreaming about the Mahdi and Prophet Isa's arrival. There is nothing wrong with both reminiscing or dreaming, but will our children look forward to experiencing the future we could make for them, or will they even remember our current days as something worth reminiscing about?

We are neglecting our present, while trying to claim a past we did not contribute to and a future that is not shape by our actions.
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Scimitar
04-29-2012, 04:49 AM
Each man is a shepherd unto himself... we are only responsible for our own deeds...

And at the moment, in case you haven't realised, the Muslim world is on the back foot, being attacked from all sides. You really think we can contribute in this state? Because I don't - not to the level that Muslims contributed in ages past...

... But you know, I am happy the way things are - Allah planned it this way, and who am I to argue with HIS plan?

I do what I am good at, to the best of my ability, you do the same, and you too, and you also, oh and you too in the corner... do the best you can.

That's all you really can do.

Scimi
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TrueStranger
04-29-2012, 05:06 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
Each man is a shepherd unto himself... we are only responsible for our own deeds...

And at the moment, in case you haven't realised, the Muslim world is on the back foot, being attacked from all sides. You really think we can contribute in this state? Because I don't - not to the level that Muslims contributed in ages past...

... But you know, I am happy the way things are - Allah planned it this way, and who am I to argue with HIS plan?

I do what I am good at, to the best of my ability, you do the same, and you too, and you also, oh and you too in the corner... do the best you can.

That's all you really can do.

Scimi
Brother I agree, there is the individual responsibility and the collective responsibility. The Prophet (PBUH) and his Companions (May Allah be pleased with all of them) were in a worse situation and they crushed their enemies from all corners. It's doable. Trying to analysis and improve the condition of the Muslim Ummah has nothing to do with arguing with God's plan. What the individual in the corner could do is endless, if we adopt a positive and encouraging mindset.
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Scimitar
04-29-2012, 05:14 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
The Prophet (PBUH) and his Companions (May Allah be pleased with all of them) were in a worse situation and they crushed their enemies from all corners. It's doable. Trying to analysis and improve the condition of the Muslim Ummah has nothing to do with arguing with God's plan.
I agree, I just don't see it happening anytime soon. Unfortunately. I mean, look at the state of the Ummah just now.

Here's a short vid I made about the Makkah tower, read the explanations therein, taken from sahih sources.

No Music - it's safe:


In these times, it's very difficult for the Ummah to become united - 73 sects and all...


Scimi
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TrueStranger
04-29-2012, 06:18 AM
I could see where you are coming from, but why don't you see it happening anytime soon? What condition of the Ummah is permanent or unchangeable? I can not honestly name 20 sects today, let alone 73 sects within the Muslim community. Let's focus on the positive aspects, while trying to educate the Ummah about the negative consequences of our actions or lack thereof, and simultaneously work towards eliminating or minimizing some of our current problems. A negative mindset is not a realistic mindset, and a positive mindset is not a practical one. So let's be positively realistic and practical as well.

Thanks for the beneficiary video. :D
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GuestFellow
04-29-2012, 04:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Iluv♥Allah
I remember the old fight with you but my anger was not upon you, it was on that hypocrite SorayaCali. I am not a mean person but if anyone try to insult Allah or the Prophet then I can be mean. I was very mean but it was not on you, so you got the idea that I am not humble.
Salaam,

I don't fight with other members. I simply address other member's posts.

I'm saying you're not humble because of this:

you are living in deception. Wake up akhi.
Moving on.

Whats the point brother? you obviously wouldnt agree with my views.
What are your views?

but if you wish to talk about it, you can send me a pm otherwise this thread would go off topic and the mods would lock it.
It has something to do with the topic. All I said was that there is no secular world. Countries around the world practice different ideologies. Somehow, you managed to interpret that as me not supporting the Sharia.
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Uthman
04-29-2012, 07:10 PM
When the sister said "secular world", I don't think she meant the whole world is secular. I think she was referring to a part of the world that consists of secular countries, in the same way that we talk about the "Islamic world" or "Muslim world" when we are talking about the Middle East (usually).
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GuestFellow
04-29-2012, 07:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Uthmān
When the sister said "secular world", I don't think she meant the whole world is secular. I think she was referring to a part of the world that consists of secular countries, in the same way that we talk about the "Islamic world" or "Muslim world" when we are talking about the Middle East (usually).
Salaam,

Fair enough.
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ILuvAllah
04-29-2012, 07:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
Let me make myself clear.

When I said, there is no secular world, I mean secularism does not influence all countries around the world. This ideology does not dominate the globe. A good example is Saudi Arabia, where some of the laws are based on Islam and not on secularism. I said secularism is more influential at the moment, especially in western countries.
No country is maintaining the sharia accurately. Not even Saudi Arab. Where in Islam does it say to beat women for driving a car? Saudi Arab just goes too extreme sometimes making Islam look very harsh. They are not secular but they are not presenting the sharia accurately.

Besides, just because Sharia is not the most influential, it does not mean the world is secular.

This what I have heard from knowledgeable brothers, all education systems has become now secular even the Islamic institutions including university like Al Azhar. I didnt want to believe it but this is what some brothers of this forum has informed me. If anyone has more idea on it, I would like request them to clarify this issue.

You can have Christianity that can be more influential.

How? Please explain cause I didn't understand

And I'm sorry, I apologize any words that offended you, it was not my intention to insult you.
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GuestFellow
04-29-2012, 09:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Iluv♥Allah
No country is maintaining the sharia accurately.
I know.

Not even Saudi Arab. Where in Islam does it say to beat women for driving a car? Saudi Arab just goes too extreme sometimes making Islam look very harsh. They are not secular but they are not presenting the sharia accurately.
I'm aware Saudi Arabia is not implementing the complete Sharia. However, some of the laws are influenced by Islam.

You can have Christianity that can be more influential.
How? Please explain cause I didn't understand
I'm not saying Christianity is more influential. It was an example to show that just because Islam is not the most influential ideology, does not automatically mean that secularism is the dominant ideology. You could have other ideologies that can be more influential and it does not have to be secularism. At the moment, I think nationalism is a very strong ideology, dominating this world.

And I'm sorry, I apologize any words that offended you, it was not my intention to insult you.
It's cool. *throws confetti*
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BlissfullyJaded
04-29-2012, 09:09 PM
I don't agree with beating a woman, but the driving issue is over-simplified. And a lot of issues with Saudi Arabia are over-simplified, thus making them look really harsh. That said, there are other issues in which Sharia is presented accurately in Saudi Arabia and they are pretty much the only Muslim country which makes some effort at Sharia.

In what way is Al Azhar secular? And what other Islamic institutions are secular? There are plenty of Islamic institutions, Umm al Qura, Darul Uloom Deoband, Darul Uloom Nadwa, etc. By secular I'm assuming you're suggesting that they are watering down the deen, and they are criticizing parts of Islam, etc, and I'm not sure if any Islamic institutions are doing that. :unsure:
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ILuvAllah
04-29-2012, 09:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by BlissfullyJaded

In what way is Al Azhar secular? And what other Islamic institutions are secular? There are plenty of Islamic institutions, Umm al Qura, Darul Uloom Deoband, Darul Uloom Nadwa, etc. By secular I'm assuming you're suggesting that they are watering down the deen, and they are criticizing parts of Islam, etc, and I'm not sure if any Islamic institutions are doing that. :unsure:
Yes even I'm not sure of it brother. I wish it is not true. btw, which is the best Islamic institution in Malaysia? Do you know any? How is Islamic university Malaysia?
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Said_Soussi
05-24-2012, 12:05 PM
youtube.com/watch?v=EklJ0OgXsp0
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