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BadOlPuttyTat
05-26-2012, 04:14 PM
Is it wrong for a kafir to perform salat? I still wish to perform salah as I do not denounce the Abrahamic god and I honestly feel that is the only god. :hmm:
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Muslim Woman
05-26-2012, 04:34 PM
:sl:

I can see ur religion is still Islam . Then what could be the problem with u in performing daily salat ?

If u still believe that God is one and Muhammed pbuh is His messenger , then InshaAllah ur prayer will be accepted. Hope u did not commit blasphemy.


Also I read in some convert stories that before accepting Islam , they went to mosque and offer salat with Muslims.


And Allah Knows Best.
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~ Sabr ~
05-26-2012, 05:03 PM
You need to stop migrating from one thing to another and sort your brain out. If you don't want to be Muslim then sort yourself out and don't be Muslim. Stop taking Islam as a joke.
Reply

Aprender
05-26-2012, 05:08 PM
:sl:
FreakOffALeash,

I know what happened to you because the same thing almost happened with me. I can understand coming into a new religion and having everything be so different and new. All of a sudden you're trying to pray 5 times a day and stay away from this and that and it becomes tiring. I think the first mistake you made with Islam was trying to do too much too fast and you also should have at least read all of the Quran with commentary to make sure you were sure about Islam. I remember before you said that you had been studying it for "months" now and that you only were upset that the Kabba wasn't actually a giant cube with a cloth over it but you had no other problems with Islam. Now, all of a sudden you seem to be repulsed by the religion. Sounds to me like you have a bad case of burn out and frustration from trying to do too much too fast and you should have taken the advice of the other members here and slowed down like they said.

I'm also a revert to Islam. It'll be 1 year for me in a few days. The problem that you have with Islam is not in the core of its teaching but the interpretations of people. I said this before and I will say it again. If you accepted Islam for the sake of other people they are always going to let you down. If you accepted Islam because you believe in your heart that Allah is the one true God and Muhammad (peace be upon him) is His last and final messenger then you would know that Allah will never let you down.

Unfortunately, you went into this while being an "Internet Muslim". And what I mean by internet Muslim is that you went on Google searches to get all of your information about Islam which isn't the right thing to do. There is a lot of sectarian garbage out there, a lot of anti-Islamic filth out there that is presented as "legit" and in terms of hadith, I have also found incorrect translations of them from Arabic out there. Secondly, you've probably been on some social networking websites or other Islamic internet forums where people might have been rude, said things that seemed backwards and wrong to you, that whole back home culture mentality and told you that everything about you, the fact that you are an American and everything else is just haraam. Everything being haraam. I've come across people like this on the internet too and it is annoying. I fear sometimes that Muslims on the internet do more to turn people away from Islam than non-Muslims do astaghfirullah!

But my point is that I feel that you went into this too fast and tried to change too much about yourself at once and it all ended up frustrating you. You didn't like what you learned about your dog so that upset you. I have a dog too and I also live in a non-Muslim family but my dog is still here in the house. Just keep the dog out of the area where you go to pray. Keep the dog out of your room. You did a Google internet search of your name and then all of a sudden you want to go and change your name to something Arabic. Just because a name means different things in different cultures doesn't necessarily mean that your name has to be changed based on some internet Google search that you did. You should have probably looked into that further than from going off a Wikipedia or internet Google search but if you did want to change your name than alhamdulillah that is fine too.

Next, you should have taken the advice of other members here when they told you to get OUT of the house and go and interact with other Muslims in the community to have good people around you. Patience is something that we should all strive for as Muslims but you want instant gratification and that's why you ended up burning yourself out with Islam. The Muslims here in my community often go out in nature, help out the community by feeding the homeless, having bbq's at the park, and even going on rollercoaster rides as a group for a day of fun. It's not all black and white as it might have been presented to you from being an internet Muslim. It is a shame that you weren't able to slow down, ask more questions from knowledgeable Muslims who could help you understand better, or even try to reach out to other brothers who could help you make sense of everything. So instead of taking the time to do that, you kept doing internet searches, seeing explanations of things that didn't make sense to you or you didn't like and instead of asking for clarification from a knowledgeable Muslim in your community or with us here online, you came to your own conclusions and decided that you wanted something new. The waswas came to you bad and unfortunately it seems like it was successful. Anything that is worth having isn't going to be easy. I'm sure you've heard that before but instead of running away from it, you as an academic should have made sure you had all of the information put together before you made any decisions like that. This is why you are sad now and confused. But as people have said to you before, there is no compulsion in religion in Islam.

I pray that Allah (swt) helps you make sense of everything and guides you to happiness in this life and protects you from all harm and evil in this world.
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Qurratul Ayn
05-26-2012, 05:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Haafizah
Stop taking Islam as a joke.
My dear, dear, Sister Haafizah, *hug from me to you* I don't think he is, Sister Haafizah.

I believe he is absolutely confused and overwhelmed with it all. He believes in 1 God. He wants to offer Salaah. But he is a Hindu now...Or a Dharmist (Is that right?)

He's just looking for confirmation on that one thing. Plus, he's only young, so be supportive and understanding, my dear Sister Haafizah!!! I know you're upset over the whole him becoming Muslim and now all of a sudden he isn't and I am too imsad. He is still learning as we all are. Remember whatever happens, Allaah does it for the best and we shall all return to Him.

*BIG LUNG-SQUEEZING HUG TO YOU, MY DEAR SISTER HAAFIZAH*

And to your question, Brother FreakOffALeash, I shall research into it and God-willing bring up some answers...

Peace to y'all
Reply

BadOlPuttyTat
05-26-2012, 05:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Haafizah
Stop taking Islam as a joke.
:cry: you hurt my feeling so badly with those words
Reply

BadOlPuttyTat
05-26-2012, 06:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aprender
:sl:
FreakOffALeash,

I know what happened to you because the same thing almost happened with me. I can understand coming into a new religion and having everything be so different and new. All of a sudden you're trying to pray 5 times a day and stay away from this and that and it becomes tiring. I think the first mistake you made with Islam was trying to do too much too fast and you also should have at least read all of the Quran with commentary to make sure you were sure about Islam. I remember before you said that you had been studying it for "months" now and that you only were upset that the Kabba wasn't actually a giant cube with a cloth over it but you had no other problems with Islam. Now, all of a sudden you seem to be repulsed by the religion. Sounds to me like you have a bad case of burn out and frustration from trying to do too much too fast and you should have taken the advice of the other members here and slowed down like they said.

I'm also a revert to Islam. It'll be 1 year for me in a few days. The problem that you have with Islam is not in the core of its teaching but the interpretations of people. I said this before and I will say it again. If you accepted Islam for the sake of other people they are always going to let you down. If you accepted Islam because you believe in your heart that Allah is the one true God and Muhammad (peace be upon him) is His last and final messenger then you would know that Allah will never let you down.

Unfortunately, you went into this while being an "Internet Muslim". And what I mean by internet Muslim is that you went on Google searches to get all of your information about Islam which isn't the right thing to do. There is a lot of sectarian garbage out there, a lot of anti-Islamic filth out there that is presented as "legit" and in terms of hadith, I have also found incorrect translations of them from Arabic out there. Secondly, you've probably been on some social networking websites or other Islamic internet forums where people might have been rude, said things that seemed backwards and wrong to you, that whole back home culture mentality and told you that everything about you, the fact that you are an American and everything else is just haraam. Everything being haraam. I've come across people like this on the internet too and it is annoying. I fear sometimes that Muslims on the internet do more to turn people away from Islam than non-Muslims do astaghfirullah!

But my point is that I feel that you went into this too fast and tried to change too much about yourself at once and it all ended up frustrating you. You didn't like what you learned about your dog so that upset you. I have a dog too and I also live in a non-Muslim family but my dog is still here in the house. Just keep the dog out of the area where you go to pray. Keep the dog out of your room. You did a Google internet search of your name and then all of a sudden you want to go and change your name to something Arabic. Just because a name means different things in different cultures doesn't necessarily mean that your name has to be changed based on some internet Google search that you did. You should have probably looked into that further than from going off a Wikipedia or internet Google search but if you did want to change your name than alhamdulillah that is fine too.

Next, you should have taken the advice of other members here when they told you to get OUT of the house and go and interact with other Muslims in the community to have good people around you. Patience is something that we should all strive for as Muslims but you want instant gratification and that's why you ended up burning yourself out with Islam. The Muslims here in my community often go out in nature, help out the community by feeding the homeless, having bbq's at the park, and even going on rollercoaster rides as a group for a day of fun. It's not all black and white as it might have been presented to you from being an internet Muslim. It is a shame that you weren't able to slow down, ask more questions from knowledgeable Muslims who could help you understand better, or even try to reach out to other brothers who could help you make sense of everything. So instead of taking the time to do that, you kept doing internet searches, seeing explanations of things that didn't make sense to you or you didn't like and instead of asking for clarification from a knowledgeable Muslim in your community or with us here online, you came to your own conclusions and decided that you wanted something new. The waswas came to you bad and unfortunately it seems like it was successful. Anything that is worth having isn't going to be easy. I'm sure you've heard that before but instead of running away from it, you as an academic should have made sure you had all of the information put together before you made any decisions like that. This is why you are sad now and confused. But as people have said to you before, there is no compulsion in religion in Islam.

I pray that Allah (swt) helps you make sense of everything and guides you to happiness in this life and protects you from all harm and evil in this world.
I actually haven't had previous experiences with Muslim before. I am a semi successful person regarding religious conversions, and I know how to convert and brainwash people VERY well, I do it for a hobby out of boredom. I have looked at Islamic negativity and I went about researching and disproving it, confirming Islam basically. No negative words of others have swayed me from Islam trust me. I should really do a post about why I left Islam but I fear it is controversial for this forum and I wish not to upset anyone.
Reply

Aprender
05-26-2012, 06:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by FreakOffALeash
No negative words of others have swayed me from Islam trust me. I should really do a post about why I left Islam but I fear it is controversial for this forum and I wish not to upset anyone.
:sl:
I don't believe that is true. You said yourself on the forum that even though you know that people don't represent a religion it could sway your decision when you cried out for help in the other thread. Our experiences with other people always have an influence on our decisions in life. It would be naive to say otherwise.

I read plenty of stories of other people leaving Islam before I decided to become a Muslim and none of them were for legitimate reasons. I sensed deception in a great number of them and fallacies in their words. The only ones that I found acceptable were those individuals that simply lost faith in God all together and chose to become atheists. It wasn't that they had any issues with theology, simply that they just didn't believe in God.

Based on what you have posted on this forum, I'm certain that you left Islam because there was much about it that you didn't understand and didn't like because you didn't understand it. It's tough looking at a religion and having grown up in a culture that has taught you things that might go against some of its teachings. It can be hard to reconcile with that especially is it's presented in the wrong way. You got only some of the story and based your decision off of that. I clinged to Christianity for quite a while before I became a Muslim. I made sure I read my Bible, even the different translations of it that we had lying around the house, I made sure I talked to Christian scholars, I made sure to talk to other Christians but the evidence was quite clear that something about the theology was unacceptable for me and even then I still tried to hold onto it for the sake of not being the "other". But eventually I let go and I went on a search for other religions. I studied Zoroastrianism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism, Mormonism (since that seems to be on the outside of the other Christian sects) and many, many other religions. Islam was the last. And while those religions had spiritual aspects to them that were quite pleasing to me, I still found something that wasn't quite right with them too that I couldn't accept. Once I stumbled on Islam, I studied it for 4 years before I took my shahada and even then I still have much to learn.

You think the promise of paradise in Islam is solely hedonistic but that is far from the truth. If any of us are granted paradise we really have no idea what it's going to be like. The mentions of some of the things that we see in it are only a miniscule glimpse into what awaits there. It is something that we cannot possibly comprehend or grasp as human beings and it is not only for pleasure. I'm sorry that what was painted to you made you think so.

Are you familiar with the concept of nafs in Islam? There are certain elements of that too that some of the other religions I mentioned above talk about. It's already an element of Islam. There are so many things in Islam that you need to learn but because you burned yourself out with all of the trickery and baloney you would never know it.

The reason why you have yet to share your reservations about Islam is because you know that they're due to your own conclusions about the religion that you based off of your own limited knowledge. If you posted them here on this forum other members would be able to correct the misinformation that you were given from your internet searches. And I'm certain that some of what you write would be offensive because you allowed something that was wrong to begin with to influence your thoughts unfortunately. Same thing happened to me.

I think you might have brainwashed yourself into sadness and depression from your "hobby" and now you don't know what is the truth anymore. Satan is very cunning indeed.

Perhaps you should take some time off for a while, get out in the real world, and live in reality for a while. Maybe you will learn more about yourself that way. You are young and you have a lot to learn.
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Qurratul Ayn
05-26-2012, 06:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aprender
Perhaps you should take some time off for a while, get out in the real world, and live in reality for a while. Maybe you will learn more about yourself that way. You are young and you have a lot to learn.
Exactly my point :)

C'mon Brother FreakOffALeash, you can do it!
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~ Sabr ~
05-26-2012, 07:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by FreakOffALeash

:cry: you hurt my feeling so badly with those words
How? If Islam means nothing to you then you shouldn't be offended.
Reply

BadOlPuttyTat
05-26-2012, 07:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aprender
:sl:
I don't believe that is true. You said yourself on the forum that even though you know that people don't represent a religion it could sway your decision when you cried out for help in the other thread. Our experiences with other people always have an influence on our decisions in life. It would be naive to say otherwise.

I read plenty of stories of other people leaving Islam before I decided to become a Muslim and none of them were for legitimate reasons. I sensed deception in a great number of them and fallacies in their words. The only ones that I found acceptable were those individuals that simply lost faith in God all together and chose to become atheists. It wasn't that they had any issues with theology, simply that they just didn't believe in God.

Based on what you have posted on this forum, I'm certain that you left Islam because there was much about it that you didn't understand and didn't like because you didn't understand it. It's tough looking at a religion and having grown up in a culture that has taught you things that might go against some of its teachings. It can be hard to reconcile with that especially is it's presented in the wrong way. You got only some of the story and based your decision off of that. I clinged to Christianity for quite a while before I became a Muslim. I made sure I read my Bible, even the different translations of it that we had lying around the house, I made sure I talked to Christian scholars, I made sure to talk to other Christians but the evidence was quite clear that something about the theology was unacceptable for me and even then I still tried to hold onto it for the sake of not being the "other". But eventually I let go and I went on a search for other religions. I studied Zoroastrianism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism, Mormonism (since that seems to be on the outside of the other Christian sects) and many, many other religions. Islam was the last. And while those religions had spiritual aspects to them that were quite pleasing to me, I still found something that wasn't quite right with them too that I couldn't accept. Once I stumbled on Islam, I studied it for 4 years before I took my shahada and even then I still have much to learn.

You think the promise of paradise in Islam is solely hedonistic but that is far from the truth. If any of us are granted paradise we really have no idea what it's going to be like. The mentions of some of the things that we see in it are only a miniscule glimpse into what awaits there. It is something that we cannot possibly comprehend or grasp as human beings and it is not only for pleasure. I'm sorry that what was painted to you made you think so.

Are you familiar with the concept of nafs in Islam? There are certain elements of that too that some of the other religions I mentioned above talk about. It's already an element of Islam. There are so many things in Islam that you need to learn but because you burned yourself out with all of the trickery and baloney you would never know it.

The reason why you have yet to share your reservations about Islam is because you know that they're due to your own conclusions about the religion that you based off of your own limited knowledge. If you posted them here on this forum other members would be able to correct the misinformation that you were given from your internet searches. And I'm certain that some of what you write would be offensive because you allowed something that was wrong to begin with to influence your thoughts unfortunately. Same thing happened to me.

I think you might have brainwashed yourself into sadness and depression from your "hobby" and now you don't know what is the truth anymore. Satan is very cunning indeed.

Perhaps you should take some time off for a while, get out in the real world, and live in reality for a while. Maybe you will learn more about yourself that way. You are young and you have a lot to learn.
I have been around others and it wasnt special. I do not have high regards for people, trust me. I do not hate them but I expect the worst and know the that no matter what I cannot care that much about others and their lives. If I have no regard for other's feelings or emotions I cannot successfully understand or relate to people on a personal level. I just manipulate them because I treat social interactions like a game. I have my whole social profile mapped out already lol, just shows you how detached I am from others. There is nothing I can do to change myself regarding certain behaviors. I am not heartless I just have a smaller heart then others. My love is limited and I enjoy it the way it is :statisfie, less worries in my life.
I also embrace the evil side of my soul and find no quarrels with it. In Hinduism(broad sense) there is no evil because we are all evil and we are all good. Islam teaches we are all good at heart, I STRONGLY OPPOSE THIS. This is one of the basic philosophies regarding myself! I do not let it go no matter what religion says. This is why I still hold myself as a Christian a lot of times.
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Qurratul Ayn
05-26-2012, 07:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by FreakOffALeash
Islam teaches we are all good at heart, I STRONGLY OPPOSE THIS. This is one of the basic philosophies regarding myself!
Oh dear.

You do have a good heart - why?


format_quote Originally Posted by FreakOffALeash
I am not heartless I just have a smaller heart then others. My love is limited
Thus, You have a heart and you give your love to others and animals:)

*Than
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Qurratul Ayn
05-26-2012, 07:20 PM
Islaam is correct. There is good in everyone. Simples.
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BadOlPuttyTat
05-26-2012, 07:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Qurratul Ayn
Islaam is correct. There is good in everyone. Simples.
You an optimist but I am a pessimist. Men are evil by inheritance and I do not think of our physical state or emotional state far removed from animals. This totally contradicts Islam I am sure. Evil is a natural part and pure essence of life; and I may have quoted Buddha actually with those words. A lot of my philosophies are my theologies and my theologies are my religion. If my religion doesnt match my theology I through it out. I do not disregard Jehovah/Allah the one true god but I disregard the teachings as corrupt, bias or misread. I live my life mostly as a faithful Christian/Muslim but there are many teachings I do not believe in. I do not know if being a 80% Muslim counts for anything, I do not know if it makes me acceptable to enter Jannah or not but I personally do. I will make a thread stating my person beliefs and see if they are unacceptable to any of you.
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~ Sabr ~
05-26-2012, 07:49 PM
The only thing acceptable to Allaah is La ilaaha illalah Muhammadur RasoolAllaah. No other belief, no other religion, nothing.

And if you don't agree with the Prophet of Allaah's words (Hadith) then the whole declaration of faith is not acted upon.
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Aprender
05-26-2012, 11:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by FreakOffALeash
I also embrace the evil side of my soul and find no quarrels with it. In Hinduism(broad sense) there is no evil because we are all evil and we are all good. Islam teaches we are all good at heart, I STRONGLY OPPOSE THIS. This is one of the basic philosophies regarding myself! I do not let it go no matter what religion says. This is why I still hold myself as a Christian a lot of times.
That makes absolutely no sense. You are very, very confused. You really need to leave and clear your head.
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Muhaba
05-27-2012, 06:02 PM
Everybody isn't good. there are bad people in the world. this is why there is so much trouble in the world. however, God didn't make the people bad. Every child is created pure and good. but as people grow up, some choose to be good while others choose to be evil. There are many reasons why some people choose to be evil. Some are taught by bad parents or society. some do it for money. others do it because of lust desires. others for power. etc.

so yes, there are bad people in the world. those people can become good if they want to. but some choose not to improve because they're evil ways give them some benefits. or they have done so much evil that they just can't improve.

Each person has three types of soul. there is the good soul that trys to prevent people from doing bad deeds. and there is the bad soul that tells you to do bad deeds. and there is a third kind of soul that one gets when they have achieved the highest degree of piety.

God's Prophet Joseph (Allah's peace be on him) said in chapter 12 of the Holy Quran, verse 53: And I do not acquit myself. Indeed, the soul is a persistent enjoiner of evil, except those upon which my Lord has mercy. Indeed, my Lord is Forgiving and Merciful."
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MustafaMc
05-27-2012, 06:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by FreakOffALeash
I do not know if being a 80% Muslim counts for anything
Hey, you are going the wrong way. Earlier I saw where you were 90% Muslim.
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Qurratul Ayn
05-27-2012, 06:27 PM
Brother FreakOffALeash, I don't know if you're still here for sure, but God-willing, this will answer whether a Non-Muslim can offer Salaah.

The question is asked to Dr. Zakir Naik.

Check it out! Simples.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7K217KDV4c
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~ Sabr ~
05-28-2012, 10:45 AM
Is there really any point of offering it if you are not Muslim though. :-\
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BadOlPuttyTat
05-28-2012, 10:52 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Haafizah
Is there really any point of offering it if you are not Muslim though. :-\
I believe in 1 god but with many forms. But I do not mean salah as in
"Bismillah hir rahman nir raheem" then Al fatiha then ruku then sujud. I mean as in performing a similar practice but to my god. Prostration and the entire salah is not that far removed from Jewish practices and I think ALL religions are connected. Salah was one of the things I enjoyed the most in Islam.
When I was a kid I found a way to make my blood elevate into my head by pure will. I could only do this once a day as it seemed to hurt my eyes oddly( I have poor vision). But when I did salah I found this effect happen multiple times a day. I have never been able to duplicate this in all my life. I tried sitting down and meditation but I have never been able to increase my endorphins and situational awareness like I did in salah. I kinda found it addicted and every morning I tried duplicating this in so many odd ways then gave up and when I started practicing salah I started all over again, endorphins feel soooooooooooooooooooooooooo nice. You have no idea how it feels, I never felt pain after I hit my hea don my metal bed, i had punched a hole through a wall. It felt like a "spiritual high", I just cant describe it but when you feel detached from fear and reality and feel endorphins it is soooooooo nice. :statisfie. You have never felt your heart beat within your own chest before without feeling nervousness or fear. But with endorphins it is so smoother and more calm
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~ Sabr ~
05-28-2012, 10:59 AM
What you do in your life is up to you, if it is aside from Islaam.

As Allaah says in the Qur'aan:

And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.

[Qur'aan, Chapter 3, Verse 85]

So ultimately it is YOUR choice whether you want to be a Muslim and do the Salaah prescribed the proper way, and enter Jannah and see Allaah, or to do a made up Salaah and enter Jahannam and be denied from seeing Allaah.
Reply

BadOlPuttyTat
05-28-2012, 11:01 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Haafizah
What you do in your life is up to you, if it is aside from Islaam.

As Allaah says in the Qur'aan:

And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.

[Qur'aan, Chapter 3, Verse 85]


So ultimately it is YOUR choice whether you want to be a Muslim and do the Salaah prescribed the proper way, and enter Jannah and see Allaah, or to do a made up Salaah and enter Jahannam and be denied from seeing Allaah.

But i believe in neither :statisfie. It is like telling a man who cannot hear that Beethoven is the greatest of all musicians. He cannot hear so he cannot judge.
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~ Sabr ~
05-28-2012, 11:09 AM
Sorry, what do you not believe in?
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BadOlPuttyTat
05-28-2012, 11:12 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Haafizah
Sorry, what do you not believe in?
I do not believe in natural purity of sin and karmic reincarnation. :statisfie:statisfie:statisfie:statisfie:statisfie
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~ Sabr ~
05-28-2012, 11:17 AM
I meant regarding my post.
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MustafaMc
05-28-2012, 11:18 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by FreakOffALeash
Is it wrong for a kafir to perform salat?
No, but what is the point if he doesn't believe in Allah and that Muhammad (saaws) is His servant and Messenger? A person can perform the various ritualistic aspects of the Islamic faith for various reasons (endorphin 'high', loose weight, etc) and to which I say, "Whatever floats your boat, dude." because it makes no difference to me what you do as long as you don't interfere with my worship of Allah (swt) in the manner I should as a Muslim.
format_quote Originally Posted by FreakOffALeash
But I do not mean salah as in "Bismillah hir rahman nir raheem" then Al fatiha then ruku then sujud. I mean as in performing a similar practice but to my god.
Well, if it does not start with 'Allahu akbar' and include Surah Al-Fatihah, then it is not salah. According to Wikipedia:

Salah is the practice of formal worship in Islam. Salah is a ritual worship, having prescribed conditions, a prescribed procedure, and prescribed times. Some of them are obligatory, with a few dispensations for those for whom it would be difficult. For those whom it is physically difficult they can perform Salah in a way suitable for them. To perform valid Salah, Muslims must be in a state of ritual purity, which is mainly achieved by ritual ablution according to prescribed procedures. Salah consists of the repetition of a unit called a raka'ah (pl. raka'āt) consisting of prescribed actions and words. The number of obligatory (fard) raka'āt varies according to the time of day or other circumstances (such as Friday congregational worship). The minimal, obligatory raka'at may be supplemented with acts that are optional but are considered meritorious.

Hey, dude you can pray to your god in any manner that you so desire, but for it to be called 'salah' it should begin with the condition of Islamic faith in your heart. Again according to Wikipedia:

This compulsory act of worship is obligatory for those who meet these three conditions:
  • are Muslim
  • are of sound mind
  • have reached the age of 10 (beginning at age seven is recommended).
No insult intended, but do you meet these conditions?
Reply

BadOlPuttyTat
05-28-2012, 11:27 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Haafizah
I meant regarding my post.

I do not believe you must be a Muslim to perform something similar to salah as such forms of worship are similar all over, I have seen Tibetan women do similar methods regarding salah.
Reply

BadOlPuttyTat
05-28-2012, 11:33 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by MustafaMc
No, but what is the point if he doesn't believe in Allah and that Muhammad (saaws) is His servant and Messenger? A person can perform the various ritualistic aspects of the Islamic faith for various reasons (endorphin 'high', loose weight, etc) and to which I say, "Whatever floats your boat, dude." because it makes no difference to me what you do as long as you don't interfere with my worship of Allah (swt) in the manner I should as a Muslim.Well, if it does not start with 'Allahu akbar' and include Surah Al-Fatihah, then it is not salah. According to Wikipedia:

Salah is the practice of formal worship in Islam. Salah is a ritual worship, having prescribed conditions, a prescribed procedure, and prescribed times. Some of them are obligatory, with a few dispensations for those for whom it would be difficult. For those whom it is physically difficult they can perform Salah in a way suitable for them. To perform valid Salah, Muslims must be in a state of ritual purity, which is mainly achieved by ritual ablution according to prescribed procedures. Salah consists of the repetition of a unit called a raka'ah (pl. raka'āt) consisting of prescribed actions and words. The number of obligatory (fard) raka'āt varies according to the time of day or other circumstances (such as Friday congregational worship). The minimal, obligatory raka'at may be supplemented with acts that are optional but are considered meritorious.

Hey, dude you can pray to your god in any manner that you so desire, but for it to be called 'salah' it should begin with the condition of Islamic faith in your heart. Again according to Wikipedia:

This compulsory act of worship is obligatory for those who meet these three conditions:
  • are Muslim
  • are of sound mind
  • have reached the age of 10 (beginning at age seven is recommended).

No insult intended, but do you meet these conditions?

I thought mentioning "Allahu Akbar" would be blasphemous :hmm: and you dont do it for the 3 and 4 rakat so I am told. I do believe Muhammad taught the word of god, but only to the Arabic people. I will find something similar to salah and work from there.
Also is my kitty avatar adorable? :statisfie I feel like a Hipster
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~ Sabr ~
05-28-2012, 11:37 AM
I thought mentioning "Allahu Akbar" would be blasphemous :hmm: and you dont do it for the 3 and 4 rakat so I am told. I do believe Muhammad taught the word of god, but only to the Arabic people. I will find something similar to salah and work from there.
Also is my kitty avatar adorable? :statisfie I feel like a Hipster
I am finding your replies very offensive to Islaam brother, you are tredding on very thin lines here.

I do not believe you must be a Muslim to perform something similar to salah as such forms of worship are similar all over, I have seen Tibetan women do similar methods regarding salah.
Whether you believe it or not, you believing something does not make it true and you not believing in something foes not make it untrue.

The fact is that you can do what you want- it won't make a difference to this life of yours and your life in the Aakhirah - as the only religion accepted by Allaah is Islaam (see Qur'aan reference in my previous post)

Salaah is something ordained for ALL Muslims, please keep that in mind.
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BadOlPuttyTat
05-28-2012, 11:42 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Haafizah

I am finding your replies very offensive to Islaam brother, you are tredding on very thin lines here.



Whether you believe it or not, you believing something does not make it true and you not believing in something foes not make it untrue.

The fact is that you can do what you want- it won't make a difference to this life of yours and your life in the Aakhirah - as the only religion accepted by Allaah is Islaam (see Qur'aan reference in my previous post)

Salaah is something ordained for ALL Muslims, please keep that in mind.


Ok then sister I wont push you any further. But like I warned you, I seriously doubt you would or could like me now. I am not the same person and I feel SOOOOOOOOO much better now being a syncretist/ Neo-Paganist
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Ali_008
05-28-2012, 11:45 AM
@FreakOffALeash - Whatever it is you dislike regarding Islam. Please create a separate thread, and list it all out. You say it will offend the people here, it might, but it doesn't mean that you can expect us to keep chasing shadows. We need to know the particular problem which is causing you to stray away from Islam in order to help. Suppose a man had penile cancer, do you think he should consult a doctor or stay in his closet out of fear of embarrassment? We are living in the 21st century, and I can't speak for everyone, but I think it is for sure that all of us have heard heinous things about Islam at one time or the other. Even Prophet Muhammad (SallAllahuAlayhiWaSallam) himself underwent terrible insults, but he faced it all and established monotheism in Makkah. Give us a chance, and if the thread is very controversial, the mods will delete it anyway.

@Sis Haafizah - Try to be nice. Rasoolullah (SallAllahuAlayhiWaSallam) never used insults and harsh remarks to bring someone to Islam, neither should we. Criticism pushes people in the opposite direction. Keep that in mind.
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BadOlPuttyTat
05-28-2012, 11:50 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ali_008
@FreakOffALeash - Whatever it is you dislike regarding Islam. Please create a separate thread, and list it all out. You say it will offend the people here, it might, but it doesn't mean that you can expect us to keep chasing shadows. We need to know the particular problem which is causing you to stray away from Islam in order to help. Suppose a man had penile cancer, do you think he should consult a doctor or stay in his closet out of fear of embarrassment? We are living in the 21st century, and I can't speak for everyone, but I think it is for sure that all of us have heard heinous things about Islam at one time or the other. Even Prophet Muhammad (SallAllahuAlayhiWaSallam) himself underwent terrible insults, but he faced it all and established monotheism in Makkah. Give us a chance, and if the thread is very controversial, the mods will delete it anyway.

@Sis Haafizah - Try to be nice. Rasoolullah (SallAllahuAlayhiWaSallam) never used insults and harsh remarks to bring someone to Islam, neither should we. Criticism pushes people in the opposite direction. Keep that in mind.

I have a prayer to Kali I must start then later after some sleep I will make a post on why I left Islam. Also it is not very complex regarding my reasons for leaving. People think I am being secretive but I am not, I just think they refuse to accept my answer honestly. Love ya bro and be back in like 4 hours which is all the sleep I need (for now). :statisfie
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MustafaMc
05-28-2012, 11:51 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by FreakOffALeash
I thought mentioning "Allahu Akbar" would be blasphemous and you dont do it for the 3 and 4 rakat so I am told.
Why would saying 'Allah is Great' be blasphemous for anyone to say? For each rakat of salah, 'Allahu Akbar' is recited five times (qiyam, ruku, sujud, jalsa, sujud). 'Alahu Akbar' is recited at least 85 times every day by every practicing Muslim during fardh salah.
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~ Sabr ~
05-28-2012, 11:52 AM
I am not the same person and I feel SOOOOOOOOO much better now being a syncretist/ Neo-Paganist

Whomsoever Allaah Guides none can misguide,
and whoever He allows to fall astray none can Guide.
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~ Sabr ~
05-28-2012, 11:57 AM
@Sis Haafizah - Try to be nice. Rasoolullah (SallAllahuAlayhiWaSallam) never used insults and harsh remarks to bring someone to Islam, neither should we. Criticism pushes people in the opposite direction. Keep that in mind.
I do beg your pardon, brother Ali_008, but please could you let me know where I was being rude? I was merely explaining the fact that Salaah is ONLY for Muslims, as it will not be accepted if a non-Muslim performs it.

And Allaah Knows Best.
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Ali_008
05-28-2012, 12:29 PM
^^^ I know you're only trying to bring forward the truth, and knock some sense into FreakOffALeash's head, but your words have come across as rude. They don't exactly sound supportive.

I read somewhere that Rumi once said something like, "when you speak the truth, make sure to drench it in honey". I tried googling for the quote, couldn't find it. Nevertheless, it does stand true anyway. Reality bites, and not everyone is ready to face it head on.

I didn't mean to offend you.
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~ Sabr ~
05-28-2012, 12:37 PM
^ None taken.

I apologise if my posts came across as rude, that was not intentional.
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MustafaMc
05-28-2012, 12:57 PM
Urban Dictionary - 'Whatever floats your boat' is a phrase that often means whatever "soothes your soul" or whatever "works best" Aka- Whatever you feel like doing.
So Amir what do you feel like doing tonight? Whatever floats your boat, man.

It is a hip, cool (or perhaps sarcastic) way of saying 'to you, your religion and to me, mine'.
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glo
05-28-2012, 04:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by MustafaMc
'Alahu Akbar' is recited at least 85 times every day by every practicing Muslim during fardh salah.
I really like how Islamic prayers remind you of that so many times a day! :statisfie
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جوري
05-28-2012, 06:13 PM
Br. Ali,

I respect you and you've such a tender forgiving soul and it is perhaps one of the most attractive things about Muslims in general is this ability & desire to want to set things aright and find fix complex situations. Some things are beyond fixing and or need not fixing at all for that is their natural shape. The prophet PBUH has two uncles in hell, try to imagine that most of the prophets were tried in their family. So what of complete fickle strangers who put an Avatar of Hitler beneath in Allah we trust.
Is that a true representation you want of Islam? I think it is the sort of thing that would count as a grievous liability. We can't be made responsible for how people reason in their mind what's right or wrong. As the Egyptian adage goes: 'illi 3a'lo fi raso yi3raf khalaso' = if you've a head on your shoulder you'll reason yourself into a resolution.
I need not remind anyone here of a certain Soraya. We're not going to amend Islam to appease people who are just not happy not matter what you offer.

Al-Qasas (The Narration)[28:56]

[RECITE]
[top] [next match]

Innaka la tahdee man ahbabta walakinna Allaha yahdee man yashao wahuwa aAAlamu bialmuhtadeena
28:56 It is true thou wilt not be able to guide every one, whom thou lovest; but Allah guides those whom He will and He knows best those who receive guidance.


you wish to be pagan be pagan, you want to be a satanist be a satanist. Islam is a covenant between the individual and God- It isn't a communal effort. It isn't to be entered into lightly but after reason and discernment of ALL that is entailed. Islam to many people is ascetic. It isn't for everyone. Usually the narrow and straight path is stringent and thus is less traveled!

:w:
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Qurratul Ayn
05-28-2012, 06:36 PM
FreakOffALeash, your question has been answered by several members, if you want to talk about Islaam and other religions, please create another thread.

S'all keeps on going off topic and back on topic and I don't know why it's being dragged out... imsad

Check the website out again and the clip, it will answer the question. Simples.

It's asked to Dr Zakir Naik; Can a Non-Muslim offer Salaah?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7K217KDV4c


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BadOlPuttyTat
05-28-2012, 06:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by لميس
Br. Ali,

I respect you and you've such a tender forgiving soul and it is perhaps one of the most attractive things about Muslims in general is this ability & desire to want to set things aright and find fix complex situations. Some things are beyond fixing and or need not fixing at all for that is their natural shape. The prophet PBUH has two uncles in hell, try to imagine that most of the prophets were tried in their family. So what of complete fickle strangers who put an Avatar of Hitler beneath in Allah we trust.
Is that a true representation you want of Islam? I think it is the sort of thing that would count as a grievous liability. We can't be made responsible for how people reason in their mind what's right or wrong. As the Egyptian adage goes: 'illi 3a'lo fi raso yi3raf khalaso' = if you've a head on your shoulder you'll reason yourself into a resolution.
I need not remind anyone here of a certain Soraya. We're not going to amend Islam to appease people who are just not happy not matter what you offer.

Al-Qasas (The Narration)[28:56]

[RECITE]

Innaka la tahdee man ahbabta walakinna Allaha yahdee man yashao wahuwa aAAlamu bialmuhtadeena
28:56 It is true thou wilt not be able to guide every one, whom thou lovest; but Allah guides those whom He will and He knows best those who receive guidance.


you wish to be pagan be pagan, you want to be a satanist be a satanist. Islam is a covenant between the individual and God- It isn't a communal effort. It isn't to be entered into lightly but after reason and discernment of ALL that is entailed. Islam to many people is ascetic. It isn't for everyone. Usually the narrow and straight path is stringent and thus is less traveled!

:w:

You must understand I enjoy Hitler because he is like me. We both know how to corrupt people. Hitler is the finest spokesman in history, so good he got an unwilling nation to die for him. Hitler is the finest speakers more so then martin Luther King or Gandhi and Barock Obama is NOT a good speaker; I like Barck but he is no great spokesperson. So understand that I dont glorify Hitler and thank him for killing a bunch of innocent people. He is just a food speaker and a firm believer in natural order, a principle i strongly support.
Qurratul Ayn is the lioness so she should know about natural order. Unless she isnt who she says she is ^o).
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جوري
05-28-2012, 06:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by FreakOffALeash

You must understand I enjoy Hitler because he is like me.
I have no desire to understand where you're coming from it doesn't add nor detract from my life. If you desire to identify with Hitler then good for you. The concept of justice not genocide is championed in Islam!

We both know how to corrupt people.
You know jack. Indecisiveness and inconstancy aren't attributes of understanding!

Hitler is the finest spokesman in history,
Only to those of no moral compass who are easily manipulated for his speech was nothing more than angry rant directed at a mob!

so good he got an unwilling nation to die for him.
They didn't die but he did.
Hitler is the finest speakers more so then martin Luther King or Gandhi and Barock Obama is NOT a good speaker; I like Barck but he is no great spokesperson. So understand that I dont glorify Hitler and thank him for killing a bunch of innocent people. He is just a food speaker and a firm believer in natural order, a principle i strongly support.
This is meaningless drivel!
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~ Sabr ~
05-28-2012, 06:59 PM
FreakOffALeash, if you want to talk about Islam then please do so, if not then please do not indulge in meaningless entertaining talks InshaAllaah.

Thanks.
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BadOlPuttyTat
05-28-2012, 07:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by لميس
Only to those of no moral compass who are easily manipulated for his speech was nothing more than angry rant directed at a mob!


Nope. Germany was down since WWI and the mood was low. Germany felt like a failure and at that time people were not proud in their country, Hitler felt the same and disliked how soldiers were political tools. He came up and started a few parties and some years later you had Germany and people felt proud to be German.
Understand that he made people feel good with an utter lie, that takes skill brother. Hitler was a puppet and a valuable one. he didnt just make a rant and get people to put on swastikas and march into a battlefield and get limbs blown off in the name of Hitler and their country. Obama made people vote for him, Hitler made people die for him. Hitler made people create a war form him when they had peace. Everybody wants peace but to trick people into going to war saying "for the glory of germany". THAT TAKES SKILL and some serious charm!
Get my drift? :statisfie


format_quote Originally Posted by لميس
They didn't die but he did.
Millions died in his name, read your history


format_quote Originally Posted by لميس
This is meaningless drivel!
he was the best speaker EVER! He wasnt a good man but he was a good speaker, just not for the right cause.
Actually he created atrocities for a very stupid cause. Regardless he was a good speaker. He deserves to burn in hell but I give him credit for what he is worth. :nervous:
And lets avoid this subject lol :offtopic:
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جوري
05-28-2012, 07:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by FreakOffALeash



Nope. Germany was down since WWI and the mood was low. Germany felt like a failure and at that time people were not proud in their country, Hitler felt the same and disliked how soldiers were political tools. He came up and started a few parties and some years later you had Germany and people felt proud to be German.
Understand that he made people feel good with an utter lie, that takes skill brother. Hitler was a puppet and a valuable one. he didnt just make a rant and get people to put on swastikas and march into a battlefield and get limbs blown off in the name of Hitler and their country. Obama made people vote for him, Hitler made people die for him. Hitler made people create a war form him when they had peace. Everybody wants peace but to trick people into going to war saying "for the glory of germany". THAT TAKES SKILL and some serious charm!
Get my drift? :statisfie
No, I don't get your drift. It is a geo-political and socio-economic conditions in which a vile creature rose up to the ranks, played on people's fears and created a scapgoat. There are countless others in history who have done the same.
You're simply a neo Nazi and I sure am glad as hell that you've come to realize the disparity of your natural inclination with that of Islamic tenets and principles.




Millions died in his name, read your history
That's funny.. I'll chuck it up to your inner child.




he was the best speaker EVER! He wasnt a good man but he was a good speaker, just not for the right cause.
Actually he created atrocities for a very stupid cause. Regardless he was a good speaker. He deserves to burn in hell but I give him credit for what he is worth. :nervous:
As stated prior, he was a orator who addressed simpletons into tapping into their mob mentality. Which explains why you're so charmed by him. And you're so free to do, just don't it on your own time and turf!
And lets avoid this subject lol :offtopic:
Yeah. Do that!
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BadOlPuttyTat
05-28-2012, 07:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by لميس
No, I don't get your drift. It is a geo-political and socio-economic conditions in which a vile creature rose up to the ranks, played on people's fears and created a scapgoat. There are countless others in history who have done the same.
You're simply a neo Nazi and I sure am glad as hell that you've come to realize the disparity of your natural inclination with that of Islamic tenets and principles.





That's funny.. I'll chuck it up to your inner child.





As stated prior, he was a orator who addressed simpletons into tapping into their mob mentality. Which explains why you're so charmed by him. And you're so free to do, just don't it on your own time and turf!


Yeah. Do that!
You proved my point and repeated me. He worked off peoples fears and oppression and gained power and then turned around and did the insane.

And I am no Neo Nazi. I am Hispanic and African and I rarely think about Hitler because so many WWII games have made me sick of that era.
You called Germans simpletons(one of my fav words I may add). You basically said all Germans are simpletons but putting them in one boat. And when you put Germans you put the thing I love most about them down.
GERMANY SAUSAGES!

"O ye who believe! Be steadfast witnesses for Allah in equity, and let not hatred of any people seduce you that ye deal not justly. Deal justly, that is nearer to your duty. Observe your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is Informed of what ye do." Sura Al-Maeda ayat 8
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~ Sabr ~
05-28-2012, 07:34 PM
Woah hold up there. What are you doing?!

What is up with you quoting from the Qur'aan for a Muslim? Stop dissing Islam down please! Stop making a mockery of it....for the love of God
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
05-28-2012, 07:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by FreakOffALeash
I do not believe in natural purity of sin
So babies are evil? or impure?

Is that saying that muslims believe they're perfect and sin free? and that's what you disagree with, or the fact that being born 'sinless' is what you disagree with?
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جوري
05-28-2012, 07:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by FreakOffALeash

You proved my point and repeated me. He worked off peoples fears and oppression and gained power and then turned around and did the insane.
I have done neither as your own words evolve to fit the tempo of the forum. Or what you think people will want to hear. You think you play with their naivete when in fact you're the fool--You identify with with a man by your confession 'a lot alike' can only evinces your aims here and unfortunately in your mind worked out that the intelligence of members here can be manipulated by the vile diatribe of an 18 year old. (if any are anything the age you profess that is).

And I am no Neo Nazi. I am Hispanic and African and I rarely think about Hitler because so many WWII games have made me sick of that era.
You called Germans simpletons(one of my fav words I may add). You basically said all Germans are simpletons but putting them in one boat. And when you put Germans you put the thing I love most about them down.
GERMANY SAUSAGES!
You contradict yourself constantly. You rarely speak of him, yet here you're speaking of him and a couple of days ago made him your avatar. furthermore, perhaps you can show me where I've used words of absolution such as ALL or NONe?
"O ye who believe! Be steadfast witnesses for Allah in equity, and let not hatred of any people seduce you that ye deal not justly. Deal justly, that is nearer to your duty. Observe your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is Informed of what ye do." Sura Al-Maeda ayat 8
Do us all a favor and quit quoting that which you clearly don't understand to suit your agenda. I am not dealing with you unjustly. In fact just the opposite:

9:8-------------------------------With (fair words from) their mouths they entice you, but their hearts are averse from you; and most of them are rebellious and wicked.
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BadOlPuttyTat
05-28-2012, 07:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Haafizah
Woah hold up there. What are you doing?!



What is up with you quoting from the Qur'aan for a Muslim? Stop dissing Islam down please! Stop making a mockery of it....for the love of God
I am not dissing the Quran lady. I never said I hate it. The Quran is an excellent piece of literature. It has many truths that are even scientific ally proven. When I get my tablet computer I am gonna get a Quran app for it.


You need to listen to ma homeboy Zakir Naik. The man is a religious Einstein, this man is so smart he needs a school named after him ^o)



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~ Sabr ~
05-28-2012, 07:45 PM
Ok I am only going to say this ONCE, so PLEASE READ CAREFULLY:

1) You are NOT a Muslim, if you believed the Qur'aan completely you would have been Muslim, so STOP quoting things out of context.
2) Stop making a mockery out of me and Islaam
3) Zakir Naik has a lot of inconsistencies with the correct Aqeedah of Islaam, so he is useless in an Islamic talk.
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BadOlPuttyTat
05-28-2012, 07:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ğħαrєєвαħ

So babies are evil? or impure?

Is that saying that muslims believe they're perfect and sin free? and that's what you disagree with, or the fact that being born 'sinless' is what you disagree with?
Children hit and do things they know they are not suppose to do all the time. They think little of it, evil doesnt mean murder or some great sin. It just means to do a wrongdoing.
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BadOlPuttyTat
05-28-2012, 07:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Haafizah
Ok I am only going to say this ONCE, so PLEASE READ CAREFULLY:

1) You are NOT a Muslim, if you believed the Qur'aan completely you would have been Muslim, so STOP quoting things out of context.
2) Stop making a mockery out of me and Islaam
3) Zakir Naik has a lot of inconsistencies with the correct Aqeedah of Islaam, so he is useless in an Islamic talk.
1) Nothing wrong with quoting from it. The Quran is not my guide to life but I enjoy it non the less. I give it utmost respect, and I fully understand its teachings.
2) I do not mock you I am actually mocking another person who has a Hitler fixation.
3) I am sure he does like everyone else.
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~ Sabr ~
05-28-2012, 07:54 PM
Do you enjoy arguing with Muslims pointlessly?
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glo
05-28-2012, 07:57 PM
I think this thread is getting way off topic. I was interested to read about non-Muslims offering Salah, but I think it has been answered now.

Perhaps the thread could be closed, since people seem to be unable to let it rest ... :?
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BadOlPuttyTat
05-28-2012, 08:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by لميس
I have done neither as your own words evolve to fit the tempo of the forum. Or what you think people will want to hear. You think you play with their naivete when in fact you're the fool--You identify with with a man by your confession 'a lot alike' can only evinces your aims here and unfortunately in your mind worked out that the intelligence of members here can be manipulated by the vile diatribe of an 18 year old. (if any are anything the age you profess that is).


You contradict yourself constantly. You rarely speak of him, yet here you're speaking of him and a couple of days ago made him your avatar. furthermore, perhaps you can show me where I've used words of absolution such as ALL or NONe?

Do us all a favor and quit quoting that which you clearly don't understand to suit your agenda. I am not dealing with you unjustly. In fact just the opposite:

9:8-------------------------------With (fair words from) their mouths they entice you, but their hearts are averse from you; and most of them are rebellious and wicked.

tsk tsk tsk, shame on you. I love you no matter what because your a human being, so do the same. You realize I by no means am intent on disgracing the Quran at all? I am not a vengeful person and if you noticed by my playful personality you would realize I am not capable of it.
I used the ayat properly and it was fitting for this speech :statisfie.
I believe in Hitler when he set about removing "politics from war". Is that not good? No person should be a political tool even if Hitler is a failure plus my photo was a mockery of him. I also do not have an agenda, your talking and I am just answering. This is a basic conversation :hmm:
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