Polytheism vs Monotheism or Monotheism vs Polytheism

[BadOlPuttyTat]

:wa:
As the title says people :statisfie. Polytheism vs Monotheism!

What is Islam? Pure unadulterated Monotheism that makes sense. Plain and simple. No trinity and no
"1 + 1 + 1 = 1"
This is why I am asking you people this question.

Now I am a polytheist so I accept and believe in many faiths and deities. I am a Theo-Monist, Polytheist/Monotheist (as a Monist it is possible), Panentheist, and pluralist. I am a lot of things basically and none conflict with each other. I enjoy my theological beliefs and do not intend to stray from them simply because I find no valid answers in anything else. I believe all gods are just the same god in various forms and prophets ig you wish to know.

So I wish to ask...
What makes monotheism the ultimate truth? Why is it so great? Polytheism has been around almost as long as monotheism I may add, and people have instinctively in history created polytheistic systems as opposed to monotheism.

So lets compare mono to poly and try to explain why you picked either one. And lets act civil people

[AabiruSabeel]

أَمِ اتَّخَذُوا آلِهَةً مِّنَ الْأَرْضِ هُمْ يُنشِرُونَ
لَوْ كَانَ فِيهِمَا آلِهَةٌ إِلَّا اللَّهُ لَفَسَدَتَا ۚ فَسُبْحَانَ اللَّهِ رَبِّ الْعَرْشِ عَمَّا يَصِفُونَ

Or have they chosen gods from the earth who raise the dead?
If there were therein gods beside Allah, then verily both (the heavens and the earth) had been disordered. Glorified be Allah, the Lord of the Throne, from all that they ascribe (unto Him).[21:21-22]

[Muhammad]

Greetings,

Monotheism is the original belief of mankind and is in line with their natural disposition upon which God created them. All Prophets and Messengers sent by God reminded people of this same creed. It was only when people deviated away from the guidance sent by God that polytheism began to appear.

And verily, We have sent among every Ummah (community, nation) a Messenger (proclaiming): "Worship Allah (Alone), and avoid (or keep away from) Taghut (all false deities i.e. do not worship Taghut besides Allah)." Then of them were some whom Allah guided and of them were some upon whom the straying was justified. So travel through the land and see what was the end of those who denied (the truth). [An-Nahl:36]

[BadOlPuttyTat]

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The fact that the very first TWO people to comment on my posts are administrators is astonishing and makes me proud ;D. The original individual act of god is actually singular like you said but the social god is always plural. Because people always differ their theories about god, even every pantheon has a Supreme God. When a person thinks about god they think of one but when a bunch of people get together it becomes many. Why?
Because everyones opinions will differ thus creating a different god. For example some Muslims say Allah is omnipresent and some say the opposite. If these two people were not united under Islam they would have claimed their god as a TOTALLY different person.
All pantheons and polytheisms form when "multiple" people get together and hold different views of god.
Even in Hinduism they have 1 god Brahman but give him different names which declare certain aspects.

Lets take the 99 names of Allah in Islam for example.

One person can say my god is "Al- Kaliq the creator"
But the other will say he is "Al-Gaffar the forgiving"

Lets imagine these people did not know Islam. According to them their God would be 2 separate beings because they have different names BUT if your a Muslim you would know they are speaking of the same god Allah.
Humans are monotheistic naturally but are polytheistic socially. We hold varying opinions of god but a lot of time we are worshiping the same god. Christians for example who do not even know of Islam think Allah is a different god without knowing Allah is the same god in their Bibles. But they perceive Allah as something different and thus call him "the god of Muslims" without knowing they are cursing their own god. Even Shia and Sunni Muslims disagree but at the same time they are united as Muslims. Religions create unity and that unity is what makes a Protestant, orthodox, and Baptist still Christians and Sunni and Shia still Muslims. But if you take away ALL common teachings then people will immediately create a different god int heir head.
Imagine a bunch of Muslims who live in a world where the Quran doesnt exist but they know of Allah by heart. They speak about Allah in different names then they meet other people who speak about Allah but also in a different name with a slightly different interpretation of what Allah has commanded them. Sooner or later these people will think they are speaking of a different god and one will call themselves "Sunnis" and the other "Shia". BUT because the Quran doesnt exist nor have any true teachings they wont be "Sunni Muslims" or "Shia Muslims". According to theses people the other is a Sunni and the other is a Shia because no prophets came to teach them about the laws that Allah has given them.
So at heart all people naturally believe in 1 god like myself but nobody agrees on the worship and who that god is. I believe in 1 god that the prophets of the bible spoke of but still I am not a Christian nor Muslim. Our difference is theologies not "gods". Notice in every pantheon they dont have multiple gods of the same type and it is quite obvious how that came about :p

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[Hulk]

I believe all gods are just the same god in various forms and prophets ig you wish to know.

Because everyones opinions will differ thus creating a different god.

So do you believe that there are many gods because that is how God revealed Himself or because people have different opinions of God?


Would you mind sharing your "opinion" of God?

[جوري]

Lets imagine these people did not know Islam. According to them their God would be 2 separate beings because they have different names BUT if your a Muslim you would know they are speaking of the same god Allah.

There's nothing to imagine as the natural inclination of man is fitrah and the unconditioned innate nature of man is toward the one God.
As Ibrahim PBUH who didn't have books or prophets to lead him aright and his father was a worshiper of multiple gods whom he'd carve with his hand quite possibly even eat later as Buddhists do with the butter statues they create sat with self and pondered as we all do:

. 6:74 to top

Sahih International
And [mention, O Muhammad], when Abraham said to his father Azar, "Do you take idols as deities? Indeed, I see you and your people to be in manifest error."

6:75 to top

Sahih International
And thus did We show Abraham the realm of the heavens and the earth that he would be among the certain [in faith]

6:76 to top

Sahih International
So when the night covered him [with darkness], he saw a star. He said, "This is my lord." But when it set, he said, "I like not those that disappear."

6:77 to top

Sahih International
And when he saw the moon rising, he said, "This is my lord." But when it set, he said, "Unless my Lord guides me, I will surely be among the people gone astray."

6:78 to top

Sahih International
And when he saw the sun rising, he said, "This is my lord; this is greater." But when it set, he said, "O my people, indeed I am free from what you associate with Allah .

6:79 to top

Sahih International
Indeed, I have turned my face toward He who created the heavens and the earth, inclining toward truth, and I am not of those who associate others with Allah ."

6:80 to top

Sahih International
And his people argued with him. He said, "Do you argue with me concerning Allah while He has guided me? And I fear not what you associate with Him [and will not be harmed] unless my Lord should will something. My Lord encompasses all things in knowledge; then will you not remember?

6:81 to top

Sahih International
And how should I fear what you associate while you do not fear that you have associated with Allah that for which He has not sent down to you any authority? So which of the two parties has more right to security, if you should know?

6:82 to top

Sahih International
They who believe and do not mix their belief with injustice - those will have security, and they are [rightly] guided.

6:83 to top

Thus no one who really sits with themselves and truly seeks to find God would be turned down and none would come up your theories, they're too convoluted and the very nature which dictates such laws as that of parsimony which states that entities should not be needlessly multiplied! A god of war and a god of harvest and a god of sun and a god of mood and a god of winter and a god of summer by their very nature said gods would be at odds with one another and would in fact defy the very definition of the term and natural inclination of the self and even the principles of logic.

You simply don't want that though do you?
...


so good luck with all of that!

[Ali_008]

The theory of polytheism is flawed in multiple ways. Let's just start with what you said.

One person can say my hod is "Al- Kaliq the creator"
But the other will say he is "Al-Gaffar the forgiving"

If I say Devon has a nose. And some other person on this forum says Devon has two eyes. Does that make you two different people?

You're just talking about what "people" believe or perceive. All humans don't think alike, and just because they think differently, it doesn't mean that each different thought creates an each different God. It's like agreeing to the age old joke that man created god and not vice-versa. (Nauzbillah)

God is not the object of imagination of us humans that our disagreements will create any changes in Him.

And polytheistic idea of God is flawed, because it simply means that humans are gods. Hinduism is filled with humans who are worshiped. They have some specialty which they have earned as a result of decades and centuries of meditation, but from who? Most people ignore that.

[S]Here's a story of one of the Hindu gods, actually there are three "gods" in this story:
One fine day, Parvaty wanted to have a bath, and she had nobody to guard the door for her while she would be doing that. So, she created a child using the sweat and dirt from her body. The child came to life and was commanded by Parvaty to guard the door. After some time arrived the husband of Parvaty, Shiva. He was blocked from entering his house by this new kid. Shiva being a "God" was infuriated that he was being blocked to enter upon his wife by some kid from the block. That child was Ganesha. Out of fury, Shiva beheaded Ganesha. When Parvaty came out, and saw the scene, she informed Shiva that Ganesha was just guarding the door for her. Thereby, Shiva was full of regrets. An elephant was seen passing around that area, Shiva beheaded that elephant as well, and placed the head of that elephant on Ganesha's body, and restored Ganesha's life.[/S]

I don't even need to mention each and every scientific error with this story. Most of us are educated folks here, and know them when we see them. What I want to highlight here is the fact that Shiva being a God was not able to recognize his own son, and killed him out of fury. Shiva was not able to identify the creation of his own wife then how will this "God" ever be able to identify me when I'm in pain and I call upon him. And let me tell you Shiva is a very important figure of Hindu mythology. Shiva has a third eye on his forehead, and it is said that when that third eye opens, the entire universe will be destroyed.

A God that holds the universe on the palm of his hand has identification and anger management issues.

I apologize to the Hindu members of this forum if I offended them, but I just narrated the story of their own mythology, and expressed my views about it.

[BadOlPuttyTat]

The theory of polytheism is flawed in multiple ways. Let's just start with what you said.



If I say Devon has a nose. And some other person on this forum says Devon has two eyes. Does that make you two different people?

You're just talking about what "people" believe or perceive. All humans don't think alike, and just because they think differently, it doesn't mean that each different thought creates an each different God. It's like agreeing to the age old joke that man created god and not vice-versa. (Nauzbillah)

God is not the object of imagination of us humans that our disagreements will create any changes in Him.

And polytheistic idea of God is flawed, because it simply means that humans are gods. Hinduism is filled with humans who are worshiped. They have some specialty which they have earned as a result of decades and centuries of meditation, but from who? Most people ignore that.

[S]Here's a story of one of the Hindu gods, actually there are three "gods" in this story:
One fine day, Parvaty wanted to have a bath, and she had nobody to guard the door for her while she would be doing that. So, she created a child using the sweat and dirt from her body. The child came to life and was commanded by Parvaty to guard the door. After some time arrived the husband of Parvaty, Shiva. He was blocked from entering his house by this new kid. Shiva being a "God" was infuriated that he was being blocked to enter upon his wife by some kid from the block. That child was Ganesha. Out of fury, Shiva beheaded Ganesha. When Parvaty came out, and saw the scene, she informed Shiva that Ganesha was just guarding the door for her. Thereby, Shiva was full of regrets. An elephant was seen passing around that area, Shiva beheaded that elephant as well, and placed the head of that elephant on Ganesha's body, and restored Ganesha's life.[/S]

I don't even need to mention each and every scientific error with this story. Most of us are educated folks here, and know them when we see them. What I want to highlight here is the fact that Shiva being a God was not able to recognize his own son, and killed him out of fury. Shiva was not able to identify the creation of his own wife then how will this "God" ever be able to identify me when I'm in pain and I call upon him. And let me tell you Shiva is a very important figure of Hindu mythology. Shiva has a third eye on his forehead, and it is said that when that third eye opens, the entire universe will be destroyed.

A God that holds the universe on the palm of his hand has identification and anger management issues.

I apologize to the Hindu members of this forum if I offended them, but I just narrated the story of their own mythology, and expressed my views about it.

You just repeated myself and you also made me notice I spelled god wrong. Took forever to find my "G" key.
Also I never said it creates a different god but to people it is a different god, I am not speaking literal!

Also Hindu's do not place gods as ALL POWERFUL and IMMORTAL like we do. They are very mortal and in all honesty they are quite human. Most Hindu text contradicts itself often because it is written more like a parable. So nobody knows what is stated as fact regarding the Vedas and Smriti. because any number of it could have been written by a random person. Their idea is that all Deva and Devi are representations of one god. Although Sanatana Dharma has SOOOOOOO many sects. There are some in Malaysia and Singapore who only worship Brahman as a singular deity only making them strict monotheist. We could be here all day on Sanatana Dharma honestly. Shiva above all is depicted as doing so many random acts, from being the great destroy to being a romantic lover of women and down to being a homosexual :uuh: . Krishna is more straightforward hence his general liking amongst Hindu's but Shiva and all those of his era have shaky scripts about them.

[BadOlPuttyTat]

So do you believe that there are many gods because that is how God revealed Himself or because people have different opinions of God?


Would you mind sharing your "opinion" of God?

I will share if you get your fist out my face ;D, punching through walls is expensive and bad in this low economy!

My idea of god is very simple and it is a common viewpoint amongst "free thinkers" (who in reality are atheist).

Now I am a polytheist so I accept and believe in many faiths and deities. I am a Theo-Monist, Polytheist/Monotheist (as a Monist it is possible), Panentheist, and pluralist. I am a lot of things basically and none conflict with each other. I enjoy my theological beliefs and do not intend to stray from them simply because I find no valid answers in anything else.

I believe all gods are nothing but different forms of the same singular universal, almighty god. I find no reason to say "your wrong and I am right". That would just be me and another person speaking in pointless absolutes. I have been a Christian for years and still consider myself one but I find it silly to think that god only sent prophets and "sons of god" to just 1 area (the western areas of the middle east). If god intended to save mankind from their sins he would have established peaceful solutions world wide and sent prophets to those people world wide. It is why I belief ALL religions are centered around a certain culture yet ironically a lot of them teach the same thing. Sanatana Dharma's concept on avatars are not far removed from "prophets" or "sons of god" I may add.
Every religion ephasizes its own culture that it started from and Islam does this well (no offense). The hijab and modesty couldnt be taught to a Xingu tribe like the Yawalapiti or African tribesman of Kombai! All religion is very cultural simply because every place and person has a culture, it is inevitable simply. People fail to realize when they talk about their faith do they not know that half the world has never learned it and in some cases 90% of the world have never heard of it. So your thusly saying God tossed away trillions of people into hell simply because Christianity was only taught to the Jews and native people of that place and time? Wouldnt it be logical that all these religions are coming form the same God even if indirectly? Christianity took over a thousands years to reach people worldwide. So I fail to see how 1 religion is the only truth when so many are alike.

Sorry I fell asleep writing this and have no idea what I was going to say so I will just post it :embarrass . My eyes started hurting so I took a break.

[~ Sabr ~]

I believe all gods are just the same god in various forms and prophets if you wish to know.

Step back and look at this statement from an outsider's point of view. Does it make sense? Not in the slightest.


Why would Allaah (I prefer to use Allaah instead of God) need to change forms?! Why would He create something and then take the form of the creation?! How absurd does this sound?!

Say: He is Allah, the One!
Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
He begets not, nor is He begotten.
And there is none comparable unto Him.

[Qur'aan, Chapter 112]

[BadOlPuttyTat]

Step back and look at this statement from an outsider's point of view. Does it make sense? Not in the slightest.


Why would Allaah (I prefer to use Allaah instead of God) need to change forms?! Why would He create something and then take the form of the creation?! How absurd does this sound?!

Say: He is Allah, the One!
Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
He begets not, nor is He begotten.
And there is none comparable unto Him.

[Qur'aan, Chapter 112]

I never said he changes form I just said people "perceive" him in different forms. People always see what they wish to believe and most idols and such are not based from site but from imagination. People of Makkah made up an entire scenario of Allah having a wife Allat and daughters. They totally corrupted the monotheistic faith of Abraham that had been taught to their ancestors until Muhammad came along and corrected their behavior.

[~ Sabr ~]

I never said he changes form I just said people "perceive" him in different forms. People always see what they wish to believe and most idols and such are not based from site but from imagination.

---

People of Makkah made up an entire scenario of Allah having a wife Allat and daughters. They totally corrupted the monotheistic faith of Abraham that had been taught to their ancestors until Muhammad came along and corrected their behavior.

They only made this up because they did not have any sort of tablets/Qur'aan/revelations that they could pass on to remember the past. We have this however, and if you look into the history of the Qur'aan and Hadith, we can see that they have been preserved for over 1400 years.

[marwen]

Religion is not a game or a passtime. It's not a point of view upon a certain matter, like to chose to be a vegetarian or to prefer romantic litterature, etc. Religion is really a serious matter, and it defines how we will "pass" our eternal life after death. I guess this is worth concentrating on the subject and seek knowledge to see our right path, and not just jumping from one ideology to the other. IMO, it would be more honest for someone to chose to be atheist, than to chose a religion without reflection, just because it's fascinating and creative.

[Muhammad]

Greetings,

All pantheons and polytheisms form when "multiple" people get together and hold different views of god.
Even in Hinduism they have 1 god Brahman but give him different names which declare certain aspects.

Lets take the 99 names of Allah in Islam for example.

One person can say my god is "Al- Kaliq the creator"
But the other will say he is "Al-Gaffar the forgiving"

Lets imagine these people did not know Islam. According to them their God would be 2 separate beings because they have different names BUT if your a Muslim you would know they are speaking of the same god Allah.

I will quote what I said in another thread where you said the same thing:

There is no purity of monotheism in any religion like there is with Islam. Names of Allaah (swt) teach us about His attributes and are all referring to the One true God. Nowhere do you see Muslims making idols named after different names of Allaah (swt) and venerating and prostrating to those idols. The Glorious Qur’an says, Say: "Invoke Allah or invoke Ar-Rahman (the Most Gracious), by whatever name you invoke Him (it is the same), for to Him belong the Best Names. [Al-Qur’an 17:110]

In contrast, Hindus are worshipping idols with so many different names and images that one wonders how they can claim to believe in one true God.

Religion is not based on human opinions, rather we learn about God through the revelations He sent mankind. The true religion is one that is very pure and simple for everyone to understand and accept.

[Ali_008]

I believe all gods are nothing but different forms of the same singular universal, almighty god. I find no reason to say "your wrong and I am right". That would just be me and another person speaking in pointless absolutes. I have been a Christian for years and still consider myself one but I find it silly to think that god only sent prophets and "sons of god" to just 1 area (the western areas of the middle east). If god intended to save mankind from their sins he would have established peaceful solutions world wide and sent prophets to those people world wide. It is why I belief ALL religions are centered around a certain culture yet ironically a lot of them teach the same thing. Sanatana Dharma's concept on avatars are not far removed from "prophets" or "sons of god" I may add.
Every religion ephasizes its own culture that it started from and Islam does this well (no offense). The hijab and modesty couldnt be taught to a Xingu tribe like the Yawalapiti or African tribesman of Kombai! All religion is very cultural simply because every place and person has a culture, it is inevitable simply. People fail to realize when they talk about their faith do they not know that half the world has never learned it and in some cases 90% of the world have never heard of it. So your thusly saying God tossed away trillions of people into hell simply because Christianity was only taught to the Jews and native people of that place and time? Wouldnt it be logical that all these religions are coming form the same God even if indirectly? Christianity took over a thousands years to reach people worldwide. So I fail to see how 1 religion is the only truth when so many are alike.

Islam acknowledges that there have been 124,000 Prophets who have walked on the face of this earth. They were sent to various parts of the world, various cultures, various times. Among them, only 25 have been mentioned in the Qur'an. Allah sent a Prophet to every nation, some of them hung on to it, and some just preferred to kick it aside with time. So, you can't really say that just "one" area received prophets.

The duty of each Muslim is to invite others to Islam. A Muslim will be held accountable if his neighbor dies as a kaafir as he never offered any guidance or invitation to Islam to that guy.

People who never received guidance, and died that way are a different case from those who choose to do evil. Alcohol is consumed in bulk today. Do you think those people are alcoholic because Islam never came to them? No. They drink deliberately. They know the ill effects that alcohol has on both the health and reputation of a man, yet they prefer to drink it. In some cases, people just choose to do evil regardless of whether they are invited to the truth or not.

Same is situation with drugs. Everybody knows that drugs are bad for you, but how many of those people do you think refrain from taking drugs?

On those grounds, you can't say that people never received guidance, and throwing them in hell because of their sins therefrom is unjust. Evil doers deliberately turn away from the voice of righteousness, and prefer to do evil anyway. For them, being righteous and obedient is "not cool enough."

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you FreakOffALeash;

Trusting in God should inspire you to do something and also inspire you to change your ways.

In the spirit of searching for God.

Eric

[Muhaba]

There is only one God, which is what you believe also, it seems.

sure different people believe different things about God. it is what happens when people depend on their own minds. they can't reach the ultimate truth through their own thinking so they end up believing so many different things. Some believe in one God and some believe in more than one, etc. But different people's differing opinions or beliefs about God does make polytheism right because opinions can't change fact. Different people may believe different things about you but that doesn't change who you are or what you're like.

Since there is only One God, everyone's God is the same One God. but if people worship something other than that One God, they are polytheists and can't claim to have been worshipping the One God when they aren't. A person calling Jesus God is not monotheist. His faith is wrong because he is calling someone other than God his deity. A person worshipping an elephant can't claim to be worshipping the Only one God. he is worshipping something other than God.



Because people can't reach the truth with their human minds, God sent Prophets to tell us about God and teach us the correct way of life. Prophet Muhammad Peace be upon him was God's final prophet and the Holy Quran is God's final Book.

If you believe that there is only One God, then you can't be a hindu. Calling yourself hindu won't change the fact that you are not. Once you've relialized the truth of Islam your mind can not believe something else. which is why you are saying weird things. You say that you are hindu but then say you believe in one God and then you say that you are ploytheist and polythiesm is that many people have different opinions of God but they are all worshipping the one same God. so you are now even trying to change the meaning of polytheism. this is because your mind can't accept the polytheistic beliefs of hinduism.

This shows that you are monotheist and are inclined to islamic belief but for some reason you don't want to call yourself muslim.

you really need to clear your head by studyng the Quran so you can know just what islam is.

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

Greetings of peace to you..

Now I am a polytheist so I accept and believe in many faiths and deities. I am a Theo-Monist, Polytheist/Monotheist (as a Monist it is possible), Panentheist, and pluralist. I am a lot of things basically and none conflict with each other. I enjoy my theological beliefs and do not intend to stray from them simply because I find no valid answers in anything else. I believe all gods are just the same god in various forms and prophets ig you wish to know.

But believing in the 'many' faiths your contradicting yourself. You can't be a 'monotheist' and be a 'polytheist' and others at the same time.
So they do conflict with one another, because Muslims believe in the pure oneness of God, while their are other's who do not, while they claim to believe in One God at the same time, their beliefs says it all.

There is only ONE God, and Brother Muhammad and many other's have stated reasons.

What makes monotheism the ultimate truth? Why is it so great?

Because it is pure, it doesn't give God same status as his creation, rather above his creation, as he's the creator, the magnificent. All prophet's asked their lord to be worshiped as ONE, and not associate partners with him as he is beyond that, he does not need that, he is greater than that. It also makes sense.

Polytheism has been around almost as long as monotheism I may add, and people have instinctively in history created polytheistic systems as opposed to monotheism.

This is clearly why members have advised you, and you also stated somewhere that you were going to read the Qur'aan.

[BadOlPuttyTat]

Religion is not a game or a passtime. It's not a point of view upon a certain matter, like to chose to be a vegetarian or to prefer romantic litterature, etc. Religion is really a serious matter, and it defines how we will "pass" our eternal life after death. I guess this is worth concentrating on the subject and seek knowledge to see our right path, and not just jumping from one ideology to the other. IMO, it would be more honest for someone to chose to be atheist, than to chose a religion without reflection, just because it's fascinating and creative.

Agree but you still failed because yet you have sects of Christianity that come from "opinions". So your statement holds no weight. All the sects of Christianity and Sunni and Shia Islam come from "opinions" or "perceptions". If that wasnt so then there wouldnt be any sects or denominations

[BadOlPuttyTat]

Islam acknowledges that there have been 124,000 Prophets who have walked on the face of this earth. They were sent to various parts of the world, various cultures, various times. Among them, only 25 have been mentioned in the Qur'an. Allah sent a Prophet to every nation, some of them hung on to it, and some just preferred to kick it aside with time. So, you can't really say that just "one" area received prophets.

The duty of each Muslim is to invite others to Islam. A Muslim will be held accountable if his neighbor dies as a kaafir as he never offered any guidance or invitation to Islam to that guy.

People who never received guidance, and died that way are a different case from those who choose to do evil. Alcohol is consumed in bulk today. Do you think those people are alcoholic because Islam never came to them? No. They drink deliberately. They know the ill effects that alcohol has on both the health and reputation of a man, yet they prefer to drink it. In some cases, people just choose to do evil regardless of whether they are invited to the truth or not.

Same is situation with drugs. Everybody knows that drugs are bad for you, but how many of those people do you think refrain from taking drugs?

On those grounds, you can't say that people never received guidance, and throwing them in hell because of their sins therefrom is unjust. Evil doers deliberately turn away from the voice of righteousness, and prefer to do evil anyway. For them, being righteous and obedient is "not cool enough."

I have never even known this :hmm:. I never knew Islam taught such a thing. You have no idea how much sense that makes and I am not being sarcastic. You have basically ended my debate about prophets and the logistics of their arrivals. More then 24,000 prophets across the earth yet Christianity teaches nothing like that. It still doesnt make me wish to reconvert but it is a very logical statement :statisfie
I accept defeat by your answer but you wont beat me next time brother :). Finally I know a person who can use words and not be argumentative for no reason. I have no idea why more people on this forum arent like you.
You have me sincere thanks.

[BadOlPuttyTat]

There is only one God, which is what you believe also, it seems.

sure different people believe different things about God. it is what happens when people depend on their own minds. they can't reach the ultimate truth through their own thinking so they end up believing so many different things. Some believe in one God and some believe in more than one, etc. But different people's differing opinions or beliefs about God does make polytheism right because opinions can't change fact. Different people may believe different things about you but that doesn't change who you are or what you're like.

Since there is only One God, everyone's God is the same One God. but if people worship something other than that One God, they are polytheists and can't claim to have been worshipping the One God when they aren't. A person calling Jesus God is not monotheist. His faith is wrong because he is calling someone other than God his deity. A person worshipping an elephant can't claim to be worshipping the Only one God. he is worshipping something other than God.



Because people can't reach the truth with their human minds, God sent Prophets to tell us about God and teach us the correct way of life. Prophet Muhammad Peace be upon him was God's final prophet and the Holy Quran is God's final Book.

If you believe that there is only One God, then you can't be a hindu. Calling yourself hindu won't change the fact that you are not. Once you've relialized the truth of Islam your mind can not believe something else. which is why you are saying weird things. You say that you are hindu but then say you believe in one God and then you say that you are ploytheist and polythiesm is that many people have different opinions of God but they are all worshipping the one same God. so you are now even trying to change the meaning of polytheism. this is because your mind can't accept the polytheistic beliefs of hinduism.

This shows that you are monotheist and are inclined to islamic belief but for some reason you don't want to call yourself muslim.

you really need to clear your head by studyng the Quran so you can know just what islam is.

I am no Hindu, and many Hindu's worship one god. Brahman, look at the eastern Asian sects. Brahman being the supreme being is what some various Hindu's worship in Thailand and Malaysia. Also they do not make cows god since in the Vedas cows WERE KILLED and EATEN. That is yet again another sect of Sanatana Dharma like Jainism. Not all Hindu's are pantheist who think everything is god(not gods). You have ones like me who believe everything is "within god" which is called Panentheism. Quite a big difference and even the Bible is panentheistic.

[marwen]

Agree but you still failed because yet you have sects of Christianity that come from "opinions". So your statement holds no weight. All the sects of Christianity and Sunni and Shia Islam come from "opinions" or "perceptions". If that wasn't so then there wouldn't be any sects or denominations

No my brother, sects are not personal opinions (if that were true, than you have had as many sects as people).
A Christian who belongs to certain denomination, has accepted that sect based on his knowledge and he found his own proofs to support his position. The same for Sunni, or Shia adherents. They based their beliefs upon sources and texts they believe it's the truth, that's what we call a creed. They did not pick that sect or that denomination out of personal opinion or personal taste.
Now it's possible that someones knowledge is limited or incorrect so he selected the wrong method, that's why there are a lot of religions and sects inside every religion like you said, but that's due to limited or incorrect reasoning/knowledge that these people learned or think it's correct, not because they all used personal opinions.

There are 2 reasons why people do wrong deeds or follow wrong methodologies :
- 1 - Because they intentionally followed their desires and their personal tastes.
- 2 - Because they followed what they thought it's the truth, but they had incorrect knowledge or way of thinking.

The first type of persons are not numerous, but they are hard to guide or convince, because they don't follow reason, they follow their desires and arrogance.
The second type is the most frequent and abundant, and this type of people can be guided if they are corrected and properly convinced.

I wish you a good luck in your journey to spiritual enlightenment.

[~Raindrop~]

Please stay on topic and keep posts clean. I'm getting rather tired of all the off-topic posts that seem to be increasing all over the forum. Keep at it and you're heading towards infractions.

[جوري]

Agree but you still failed because yet you have sects of Christianity that come from "opinions". So your statement holds no weight. All the sects of Christianity and Sunni and Shia Islam come from "opinions" or "perceptions". If that wasnt so then there wouldnt be any sects or denominations

The majority of Muslims 90% are ahel as'sunna wal'jama3a!
so I don't know what 'sects' you're speaking of as Islam doesn't recognize sectarianism. A ten percent who wish to split because they don't reason Islam or wish to reason Islam as they perceive rather than what is revealed is their problem not ours. The ummah is nowhere near divided like Christianity. That's just what you personally wish to believe to add to your own confusion. And that's unfortunate as stated prior if people are sincere they'll find what they're looking for and what they're looking for is usually unadulterated not peppered with all sort of convoluted nonsense which has no basis in the Quran and Sunnah. (both are very well preserved) so actually merely reading the Quran should render any shiite a Sunni..
It is their choice though as it is yours!
Don't get me wrong, I am rather glad you're not Muslim...

best,

[Insaanah]

Please stay on topic and keep posts clean. I'm getting rather tired of all the off-topic posts that seem to be increasing all over the forum. Keep at it and you're heading towards infractions.

JazaakiAllah khayran sister. I think we all need a reminder that this is a serious forum, where the humour is restricted by and large to the puzzles and humour section, posts must be kept on topic, and when members of the opposite gender must be addressed, it must be done with propriety.

I also think, that with statements like these:

So at heart all people naturally believe in 1 god like myself.... I believe in 1 god that the prophets of the bible spoke of but still I am not a Christian nor Muslim.

Now I am a polytheist so I accept and believe in many faiths and deities.

this thread won't actually get anywhere, or serve any purpose, at the very least until you are clear in your own mind what you believe in and why.

Faith is a serious matter, but one shouldn't change it at the drop of a hat, being swayed to one by some fanciful notion, then being swayed to the opposite side by another fanciful notion, neither here nor there. It should be consistent, based on sound reason, unchanged scriptures, and should be what has always been since the beginning of time, since the creation of the first human being.

Polytheism has been around almost as long as monotheism I may add, and people have instinctively in history created polytheistic systems as opposed to monotheism.

It is interesting to note that Adam and Eve (peace be upon them both) as described in any of the three Abrahamic faiths, were tempted by Satan to go against what God had told them, not against what the gods had told them, because there were no gods, only ONE God, as there always has been, always was, and always will be. The notion of polytheism was a later invention by people. The fact that the notion existed, having been created by those who forgot or rebelled against God's teachings, does not make it in any way correct.

And Adam's brothers in prophethood, all the way throughout, and right down to the final messenger Muhammad (peace be upon them all) all preached this same message: to submit wholeheartedly to the will of God and to worship Him and Him alone, without any associates in, or parts to, His Divinity, and to obey the prophet. Thus, Islam is not a new faith but is the same Ultimate Truth that God revealed to all prophets, including Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus (peace be upon them). Since the time of prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), that message is available unchanged and unadulterated. He is the last, not first, prophet of Islam; a messenger to all mankind, to be followed until the end of time.

Because everyones opinions will differ thus creating a different god.

I believe it is just Hinduism where the belief is that god becomes whatever the devotee wants him to be. In Islam God does not depend on what we think of Him, He is what He is, Glorified and Exalted be His Tremendous Majesty above that.

I accept defeat by your answer but you wont beat me next time brother

I am not sure we should be posting with this frame of mind, the aim is not to beat people or cause their defeat, but to learn, and I hope you will learn.

[Muhaba]

I am no Hindu, and many Hindu's worship one god. Brahman, look at the eastern Asian sects. Brahman being the supreme being is what some various Hindu's worship in Thailand and Malaysia. Also they do not make cows god since in the Vedas cows WERE KILLED and EATEN. That is yet again another sect of Sanatana Dharma like Jainism. Not all Hindu's are pantheist who think everything is god(not gods). You have ones like me who believe everything is "within god" which is called Panentheism. Quite a big difference and even the Bible is panentheistic.

God says in the HOly Quran: there is nothing like Him.

what God is or What He is like is not something we humans are supposed to think of because we can't know or understand. and we can't depend on our human thinking to understand. We are simply to believe that God exists and we have to believe in all His qualities that are mentioned in the Quran or hadith without envisioning them or giving explanations/description to.

There are many beautiful verses on God Allah in the Holy Quran. why don't you read them?

[BadOlPuttyTat]

I believe it is just Hinduism where the belief is that god becomes whatever the devotee wants him to be. In Islam God does not depend on what we think of Him, He is what He is, Glorified and Exalted be His Tremendous Majesty above that.

You people always speak in absolute. I am not talking about Sanatana Dharma, not even remotely. I am talking about people and their instinctive nature to know there is a god. Islam is a perfect example of this regarding Makkah, people corrupted god into various idols and beings. So you proved my point as I am not talking about Hinduism at all. I am not a Hindu

this thread won't actually get anywhere, or serve any purpose, at the very least until you are clear in your own mind what you believe in and why.
Faith is a serious matter, but one shouldn't change it at the drop of a hat, being swayed to one by some fanciful notion, then being swayed to the opposite side by another fanciful notion, neither here nor there. It should be consistent, based on sound reason, unchanged scriptures, and should be what has always been since the beginning of time, since the creation of the first human being.

Anybody who is swayed from religion to religion is either confused or still seeking. I am not swaying from religion to religion I just dont have one at the moment, so I still consider myself a Christian. I am not a Hindu, Muslim, Sikh nor Pagan. I have made it clear that I am an Eclectic. And my views have never changed at all or else I wouldnt have a set list of beliefs. I also follow what has been set from the beginning for quite a while now.

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

Anybody who is swayed from religion to religion is either confused or still seeking. I am not swaying from religion to religion I just dont have one at the moment, so I still consider myself a Christian. I am not a Hindu, Muslim, Sikh nor Pagan.

Which is what it seems like from your posts, and i am not 'assuming' this, it also states under your nick 'Orthodox paganist. Anyway, you asked a few questions, and you are bound to receive a response in accordance to Islaam. Whether you agree or not, this is entirely your decision, nobody is forcing anything upon you, rather they are explaining their belief to you..

As I noticed لميس presence on this forum I also know she inspires hate. She can say what she likes but I am very clear about my philosophies so please avoid her. Never deal in the company or words of liars like لميس

Please, if you dislike a post feel free to report it, but do not sit here and call a member a liar. Also, from what i've read of the sister's posts she has not lied, please be careful with your words!

Subhaan'Allaah!

[جوري]

Politically the Ummah is divided I am aware although religiously I know they arent as bad as Christians. But Shia and Sunni are still sects which makes it a division regardless which is my point. You create confusion while i create clarity. You lie and you are living proof That Islam like anything else can be made evil. I am sick of this forum and people like you. I wish well in life although I know you cannot obtain it. I have dealt with people like you (my own mother) :p.
Your angry because I left Islam simply because I did not like it nor fully believed it. Get over it, we dont always win our way. I surely dont. Your just a child who trolls online for your own amusement.

1-You don't know anything about the Ummah and thus ask you to refrain from dropping your opinion as if authoritative.
2- Sunnah can't be a sect. In fact shia by the very root of the word means faction. Thus there has to be a main group and another splitting off it to be rendered as such. Both can't be called sects which is another reason why you shouldn't speak of matters of which you've no knowledge.
3- You do nothing for a forum except make it descend down to the acrobatics of a jester and you disrespect the sisters and in fact read nothing of what is being offered you to help you though your very confused very sad ideologies.
4- And I can't stress enough how glad I am that you're not a Muslim and never were, you're a liability not an asset and think you're best suited for something like Scientology if you can afford their membership fees.


Again good luck with all that..

best,

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

Politically the Ummah is divided I am aware although religiously I know they arent as bad as Christians. But Shia and Sunni are still sects which makes it a division regardless which is my point. You create confusion while i create clarity. You lie and you are living proof That Islam like anything else can be made evil. I am sick of this forum and people like you. I wish well in life although I know you cannot obtain it. I have dealt with people like you (my own mother) :p.
Your angry because I left Islam simply because I did not like it nor fully believed it. Get over it, we dont always win our way. I surely dont. Your just a child who trolls online for your own amusement.

Islaam teaches one thing, but follows do not adhere by it's teachings, are they then following it correctly? regardless of sect business, which have no relation to what Muhammad :saws: taught!

Islaam is sent for all of mankind, Islaam is perfect while it's followers are not, nor are us humans. Please do realize that.

The Qur'aan states:


Verily, those who divide their religion and break up into sects (all kinds of religious sects) , you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) have no concern in them in the least. Their affair is only with Allah, Who then will tell them what they used to do.[Al Qur'aan 6:159]

[BadOlPuttyTat]

Islaam teaches one thing, but follows do not adhere by it's teachings, are they then following it correctly? regardless of sect business, which have no relation to what Muhammad :saws: taught!

Islaam is sent for all of mankind, Islaam is perfect while it's followers are not, nor are us humans. Please do realize that.

The Qur'aan states:


Verily, those who divide their religion and break up into sects (all kinds of religious sects) , you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) have no concern in them in the least. Their affair is only with Allah, Who then will tell them what they used to do.[Al Qur'aan 6:159]

I do realize human error and I have stated this many times. "People will find a way to corrupt something good" and when I said good I meant Islam.
If I do not believe in something it doesnt mean it is not good. I do not believe that ice cream is not fattening but regardless it would be good if it wasnt

[Insaanah]

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