Locals turn against Taliban in eastern Afghanistan

[Roasted Cashew]

Taliban-forced school closures and attacks have presented a big problem in Afghanistan. Residents in Andar are rebelling against the Taliban, but that doesn't mean that they are siding with the government.

A group of villagers in eastern Afghanistan took up arms against the Taliban and say they’ve now managed to regain control.

In Ghazni’s Andar district, one of the areas hit hardest by a series of recent Taliban-forced school closures, nearly 400 locals from eight villages in the eastern Afghan province reportedly gathered to confront the Taliban. In the two weeks of fighting, 11 people were reportedly killed; three from the citizens’ militia and eight Taliban fighters, but villagers say they’ve managed to reopen 81 of Andar’s 83 schools.

Though the fighting in Andar may serve as an indication that locals now have less patience for the Taliban’s extremist ideologies than they did almost 11 years ago, it’s not a clear beacon of hope that the tide is turning toward stability in Afghanistan. So far, the uprising remains localized and those who have stood up against the Taliban say they’re not ready to side with the government either.

“The uprising is happening because no one could tolerate the closure of the schools in the entire district. That’s why the ordinary citizens and tribal elders decided to start fighting for the schools,” says Nek Mohammad, a tribal elder in Ghanzi.

Ghazni’s Taliban began threatening schools largely in response to a ban on unregistered motorcycles. Local authorities say the prohibition has severely restricted the insurgents’ movements and the Taliban sought to use school closures as a means to pressure the government to change the policy.

“The schools are not the only problem. People are poor in the districts and sometimes 10 or 15 Taliban members will come to a family and force the family to feed them,” says Mohammad Jamil, a tribal elder in Ghazni. “People don’t feel free out there. Their freedom is restricted. If they want to stay alive out there, they’ll have to always say yes to the Taliban, and the government.”

and so on...

Source: http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-...rn-Afghanistan

[Jedi_Mindset]

''The christian science monitor'' what a reliable source, sorry bro, i must take this article with a pinch of salt without evidence.

[LauraS]

^^From experience, it doesn't matter if there is evidence from Afghani people themselves posted on this board, about the actions of the Taliban, it still won't be believed...

[Roasted Cashew]

^^From experience, it doesn't matter if there is evidence from Afghani people themselves posted on this board, about the actions of the Taliban, it still won't be believed...

Well said.

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[جوري]

^^From experience, it doesn't matter if there is evidence from Afghani people themselves posted on this board, about the actions of the Taliban, it still won't be believed...

Oh? List out that experience for us...

[جوري]

''The christian science monitor'' what a reliable source, sorry bro, i must take this article with a pinch of salt without evidence.

---
I was just reading a CSM article the other day.. was another hilarious article by half wits.. they were praying that Shafeeq takes head of the presidency otherwise the brotherhood will do away with all Christians in Egypt.. Makes me wonder why we didn't do away with them since Amr ibn il3aas conquered Egypt some millenniums ago.

[Roasted Cashew]

I was just reading a CSM article the other day.. was another hilarious article by half wits

Yea, let's all attack the source coz this article doesn't go well with our self-painted images of Taliban as angels and saints. They are the most noble of people. Of course, they won't do anything like this because there is clear cut evidence that shows Afghan's celebrate and hug these Taliban everywhere they see them. There is no fear of Taliban in Afghan people at all and they happily offer them residence and food just like Ansars of old. :heated:

[Aprender]

Yea, let's all attack the source coz this article doesn't go well with our self-painted images of Taliban as angels and saints. They are the most noble of people. Of course, they won't do anything like this because there is clear cut evidence that shows Afghan's celebrate and hug these Taliban everywhere they see them. There is no fear of Taliban in Afghan people at all and they happily offer them residence and food just like Ansars of old.

Instead of writing this, why didn't you just go on the internet and find another source for this article so we could discuss it properly? That's all you had to do and still can do instead of trying to get into another argument with your brothers and sisters.

[جوري]

Yea, let's all attack the source coz this article doesn't go well with our self-painted images of Taliban as angels and saints. They are the most noble of people. Of course, they won't do anything like this because there is clear cut evidence that shows Afghan's celebrate and hug these Taliban everywhere they see them. There is no fear of Taliban in Afghan people at all and they happily offer them residence and food just like Ansars of old. :heated:

Isn't that the aim of your article? To malign the only source of resistance and insurgency in an otherwise subjugated country? The wars in Afghanistan aren't brought upon by the Taliban.. in fact they were borne from a group of students hence the name 'talib' who couldn't take the bullshit much longer. It isn't the taliban that invaded Afghanistan in 327 bc or 1839-42 or recently the Russians or the U.S thereafter nor the taliban responsible for the unending western greed for the region. I don't value your articles or your comments.. they do nothing for me except perhaps inspire a yawn. They work well to expose you as a hypocrite and garner for you the attention of the forum Tartuffes. I am not sure what you were going for there? a little reverse psychology? You've a long way to go greenhorn..

best,

[Roasted Cashew]

trying to get into another argument with your brothers and sisters.

Well, they are not brothers and sisters if they don't argue??:p Unless my bros and sis clear their heads of prejudices for anything western, there's nothing I can really do that will satisfy them.

[Aprender]

Well, they are not brothers and sisters if they don't argue?? Unless my bros and sis clear their heads of prejudices for anything western, there's nothing I can really do that will satisfy them.

I am American born and raised so you can drop the Western prejudice BS right now. I don't think anyone was trying to argue except for you. Just find another source for the article. Why is that so hard for you to do? By not doing so you're derailing your own thread.

I'm sure you can understand why something coming from a website with that name wouldn't exactly be accepted on an Islamic forum with all things considered.

[Roasted Cashew]

Just find another source for the article. Why is that so hard for you to do?

It's a CMS exclusive if not mistaken.

[Roasted Cashew]

I am American born and raised

Not all bros and sis are American born and raised. Otherwise I would have cut off that "BS".

[Aprender]

It's a CMS exclusive if not mistaken.

Of course it is.

Not all bros and sis are American born and raised. Otherwise I would have cut off that "BS".

You'd be surprised that quite a few of us on this forum live in the West. Anyway this is the problem that I have with you. Instead of just speaking with your fellow Muslims on this forum in a tolerable tone, you always feel the need to make witty comebacks, or making assumptions about all of our beliefs instead of being civil with us. It's really off putting to me. :hmm:

But anyway. I hope you can go ahead and discuss this topic here now with the other non-Muslim members on the forum as I've really nothing to say on the subject matter and I don't want this to go any further off-topic. Have a good day.

[Roasted Cashew]

Isn't that the aim of your article? To malign the only source of resistance and insurgency in an otherwise subjugated country?

The purpose was to expose that they do sometimes transgress in their battle for resistance. One can not just hold the banner of resistance and then keep on doing whatever he likes. They have to be accountable for their actions and we HAVE to hold them accountable. Taliban has got so many factions that it is hard to tell which one is still pure in the fight and which will do anything for political and personal gains under the banner of Islamic resistance.

I don't value your articles or your comments

I don't write any of these articles...so I don't care. I do write the comments but I still don't care.

I am not sure what you were going for there? a little reverse psychology? You've a long way to go greenhorn

Considering, I am the newbie here, why was it hard for you to comprehend what was I going for?

[Insaanah]

Residents in Andar are rebelling against the Taliban, but that doesn't mean that they are siding with the government.

A group of villagers in eastern Afghanistan took up arms against the Taliban and say they’ve now managed to regain control.

In Ghazni’s Andar district, one of the areas hit hardest by a series of recent Taliban-forced school closures, nearly 400 locals from eight villages in the eastern Afghan province reportedly gathered to confront the Taliban. In the two weeks of fighting, 11 people were reportedly killed; three from the citizens’ militia and eight Taliban fighters, but villagers say they’ve managed to reopen 81 of Andar’s 83 schools.

Though the fighting in Andar may serve as an indication that locals now have less patience for the Taliban’s extremist ideologies than they did almost 11 years ago, it’s not a clear beacon of hope that the tide is turning toward stability in Afghanistan.

The article quoted above is from 4th June 2012.

Yet, according to Reuters, in Andar, the same place mentioned in the article you quoted, even as far back as January 2011, even girls schools were already operating:

Now, schools are said to be operating in all Pashtun (i.e. mainly Taleban-controlled) districts of Ghazni; in Andar, even girls’ schools are also said to be working, he says.

And not due to taking up arms, or fighting, or killing, as some might have you believe:

But basically they have been sending petitions to the Taliban to let schools open in the areas they control and the Taliban could be responding to that pressure, Ruttig says citing local sources.

http://blogs.reuters.com/afghanistan...ntler-taliban/

[Roasted Cashew]

The article quoted above is from 4th June 2012.

Yet, according to Reuters, in Andar, the same place highlighted in the article you quoted, as far back as January 2011, even girls schools were operating:

Appreciate that someone actually bothered to do a little research rather than blindly attacking me or the source. Anyway Sis, I think the CMS article mentions that the schools have been closed again recently because:

Taliban began threatening schools largely in response to a ban on unregistered motorcycles. Local authorities say the prohibition has severely restricted the insurgents’ movements and the Taliban sought to use school closures as a means to pressure the government to change the policy.

[Insaanah]

Taliban began threatening schools largely in response to a ban on unregistered motorcycles. Local authorities say the prohibition has severely restricted the insurgents’ movements and the Taliban sought to use school closures as a means to pressure the government to change the policy.

The motorcycles ban, which is supported by the United States and its NATO allies, has drastically restricted insurgent movements and increased friction between the Taliban and government, Afghan security officials said.

http://www.siasat.com/english/news/a...n-shut-schools

Why is that not surprising? Nothing like a bit of foreign meddling is there, to interfere in Muslims affairs? And nothing like a bit of foreign meddling to make sure that their troops are still needed. Sow a bit of conflict and discord, and then work your way in:

As NATO troops continue to leave Afghanistan, it is the only province that will see a net gain in the number of foreign troops on the ground over coming months.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/world/talib...#ixzz1x3Rqnt5T

That has been the way of invading/occupying forces from the colonial age and long before.

[Roasted Cashew]

http://www.siasat.com/english/news/a...n-shut-schools

Why is that not surprising? Nothing like a bit of foreign meddling is there, to interfere in Muslims affairs? And nothing like a bit of foreign meddling to make sure that their troops are still needed. Sow a bit of conflict and discord, and then work your way in:



Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/world/talib...#ixzz1x3Rqnt5T

That has been the way of invading/occupying forces from the colonial age and long before.

The government bans unregistered motorcycles which hurts insurgents....and they respond by hurting the education of thousands of children. Way to go. Clearly their strategists and military leaders are a bit dumb and short-sighted. If Taliban is so much for education, isn't it kinda funny that they are responding to pressure by going against their own principles?? So education for children is ONLY government's concern?...and of no concern at all for the Taliban? - that they are closing them down? Sis, clearly the enemy is very smart and our insurgents...:omg: Yet, I am hopeful and pray that Allah gives us a charismatic, smart, and a noble leader which can lead all these insurgent groups and defeat the enemy.

Thanks for providing other links.

[LauraS]

Oh? List out that experience for us...

I've posted webistes showing videos, stories, photographs of Taliban crimes. Websites of charities established by men and women who fled Afghanistan, but members dismissed the charities people and websites claiming they had been influenced by the west and the women were just feminists.

I've said this a billion times but I'll say it again: a member of this forum had family that fled Afghanistan because of the Taliban and members refused to pay him attention either. And yet members also refused to judge the Taliban unless they heard of first hand experience- didn't that member's family have first hand experience? Yet because it wasn't the glorious stuff people wanted to hear of moral and just men gently guiding the Afghani people no one wanted to know.

I don't support the actions of the west in Afghanistan, but I certainly do not support the Taliban either.

[جوري]

The purpose was to expose that they do sometimes transgress in their battle for resistance. One can not just hold the banner of resistance and then keep on doing whatever he likes. They have to be accountable for their actions and we HAVE to hold them accountable. Taliban has got so many factions that it is hard to tell which one is still pure in the fight and which will do anything for political and personal gains under the banner of Islamic resistance.

:lol: & you know this because you read an article on the christian science monitor?
those Christians?

I had another video of similar --- indoctrinating little children in classrooms. And you're so concerned what the Taliban are doing? Well frankly the taliban can do whatever in their country, it is their backyard and it isn't up to the Christians science monitor to protest it or you for that matter. You're not besieged by drones and your woman and children torched in the night) and your father pissed on and posed for pictures.

I don't write any of these articles...so I don't care. I do write the comments but I still don't care.

You write in agreement and pleased with content rather than outrage!

Considering, I am the newbie here, why was it hard for you to comprehend what was I going for?

What are you going for considering the two positive likes you received on here are from Non Muslims?

[جوري]

^^From experience, it doesn't matter if there is evidence from Afghani people themselves posted on this board, about the actions of the Taliban, it still won't be believed...

I've posted webistes showing videos, stories, photographs of Taliban crimes. Websites of charities established by men and women who fled Afghanistan, but members dismissed the charities people and websites claiming they had been influenced by the west and the women were just feminists.

I've said this a billion times but I'll say it again: a member of this forum had family that fled Afghanistan because of the Taliban and members refused to pay him attention either. And yet members also refused to judge the Taliban unless they heard of first hand experience- didn't that member's family have first hand experience? Yet because it wasn't the glorious stuff people wanted to hear of moral and just men gently guiding the Afghani people no one wanted to know.

I don't support the actions of the west in Afghanistan, but I certainly do not support the Taliban either.

Your comment speaks of your experience directly with Afghans, I am still waiting for that or that of afghans living there daily whom your surveyed. Not some screen name on a forum!
until you deliver on that I suggest you not waste my time!

best,

[جوري]

More from our christian friends at an afghan school near you



please feel free to watch the entire 'war on Islam'- Don't be silly! series..

best,

[Muhammad]

:sl:

Please try to avoid turning this thread into personal attacks on each other. This is not the way Muslims should be behaving. I have deleted a bunch of posts and if the thread continues in the same way then it will have to be closed.

[Roasted Cashew]

:sl:

Please try to avoid turning this thread into personal attacks on each other. This is not the way Muslims should be behaving. I have deleted a bunch of posts and if the thread continues in the same way then it will have to be closed.

Sorry brother. Never is it my attention to personally attack anyone. Will keep it in mind. Peace.

[Roasted Cashew]

you know this because you read an article on the christian science monitor?

Another sis has shared few other links..u might wanna check them out...

And you're so concerned what the Taliban are doing?

YES. The enemy is enemy and it would do what it needs to do. Insurgents are OURS. We need to make sure they do not transgress in their resistance. I can post videos here of how the Taliban indoctrinate and brainwash little children with hatred and prejudices and tell them how to do suicide bombings but I won't.

What are you going for considering the two positive likes you received on here are from Non Muslims?

Still can't seem to find these likes...

[جوري]

are you re posting that which was deleted? I have already replied to the above and that was removed. You can't be a brute & a sycophant in the same breath. It is unbecoming!

[Abz2000]

a member of this forum had family that fled Afghanistan because of the Taliban and members refused to pay him attention either.

yup, no better way to get a visa, i knew this guy who went to the local newspaper office and paid them to make him a backdated non-existent news report about himself lol.

And yet members also refused to judge the Taliban unless they heard of first hand experience-

do you blame anyone???
have u eva heard of a boy who cried "wolf"???

O ye who believe! If a wicked person comes to you with any news,
ascertain the truth,
lest ye harm people unwittingly, and afterwards become full of repentance for what ye have done.
Quran 49:6

btw, did u know that "there was no doubt that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction"?

over a million of our brothers and sisters dead.

roasted cashew reminds me of this verse:

60 . Truly, if the Hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and those who stir up sedition in the City, desist not, We shall certainly stir thee up against them: Then will they not be able to stay in it as thy neighbours for any length of time:
61 . They shall have a curse on them: whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain (without mercy).
62 . (Such was) the practice (approved) of Allah among those who lived aforetime:
No change wilt thou find in the practice (approved) of Allah.
Quran 33:60-62

[Roasted Cashew]

More from our christian friends at an afghan school near you

At least they are not telling them to blow themselves up. Of course I am outraged that they are proselytizing in our schools but still better then blowing themselves up and taking lives of other innocent people. Btw, Muslims have proselytized a lot in western countries without any hindrance whatsoever. Isn't this the failure on the part of Taliban from failing to protect children from being proselytized. Instead of shutting down entire schools, why not expel those teachers who do proselytize.

[Abz2000]

maybe ur unaware that the us government pays reporters to hand in fake news reports, and that a lot of the news reports in iraq and afghanistan are written by pr firms in the U.S.



go cast out the mote in ur own eye cashew.

[Roasted Cashew]

I have already replied to the above and that was removed.

Oh, really! How would I know if it was removed?

It is unbecoming!

Had I replied to it, and only your response got deleted, then maybe...

[جوري]

At least they are not telling them to blow themselves up.

What is with these delusions of grandiosity you have. You think the Taliban are sitting on IB like you being idle, and taking your empty words or the words of any other inane comments made by you or the 'experienced' girl or her buddy with other than a grain of salt?

Of course I am outraged that they are proselytizing in our schools but still better then blowing themselves up and taking lives of other innocent people.

Americans do it all the time with their drones and so does NATO or is 'collateral damage' more acceptable to you? Suicide bombers is a Christian concept in fact!

Btw, Muslims have proselytized a lot in western countries without any hindrance whatsoever.

I don't see any Muslims doing any proselyting in western countries, heck just attending a mosque can land you on the FBI most wanted. Secondly they wouldn't target children as Islam is the religion of reason not man worshiping nonsense which is hammered in to be parroted as nothing more than vacuous words uttered.

Isn't this the failure on the part of Taliban from failing to protect children from being proselytized. Instead of shutting down entire schools, why not expel those teachers who do proselytize.

Go tell them that. Go tell them the Christian science monitor and other Christian evangelizing sources in the west says you dig honor killing, child brides, suicide bombs and shutting down schools, why don't you stop doing that and expel those U.S army men with their Pushtu bibles and kick those mindless twits brainwashing your girls instead. I'd be curious what they have to say. Take the experienced girl with you so she can put something substantial on her resume.

best

[Roasted Cashew]

roasted cashew reminds me of this verse:

Shame on how you woefully use Qur'anic verses here and there as it suits your agenda.

[جوري]

Shame on how you woefully use Qur'anic verses here and there as it suits your agenda.

what is his agenda? better yet, what is yours?

[Roasted Cashew]

what is his agenda?

to paint me as a "Hypocrite" as he sees me.

what is yours?

How many times do I have to repeat. To quantify our own(Muslims) shortcomings, mistakes, sins and evils before pointing fingers at others(westerners).

[جوري]

to paint me as a "Hypocrite" as he sees me.

The verse is meant so that we verify news that is leveled against Muslims by fasiqs.. you have already stated that you didn't write the article. But you seem to like it.. so why do you think a few people here wish to 'paint' you as something.. How would you like those articles you post and your subsequent comments on them to be perceived exactly?

How many times do I have to repeat. To quantify our own(Muslims) shortcomings, mistakes, sins and evils before pointing fingers at others(westerners).

We already know our shortcomings but the 'westerners' are actively there in Muslim lands doing their thing so why can't we point the finger? Is it impolite to do it virtually?

[Roasted Cashew]

The verse is meant so that we verify news that is leveled against Muslims by fasiqs

With that verse he was addressing LauraS.

He dedicated the following verse for me and I quote:

60 . Truly, if the Hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and those who stir up sedition in the City, desist not, We shall certainly stir thee up against them: Then will they not be able to stay in it as thy neighbours for any length of time:
61 . They shall have a curse on them: whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain (without mercy).
62 . (Such was) the practice (approved) of Allah among those who lived aforetime:
No change wilt thou find in the practice (approved) of Allah.
Quran 33:60-62

I think this was uncalled for.

How would you like those articles you post and your subsequent comments on them to be perceived exactly?

That these are not meant to malign any pure and rightful resistance of the enemy or is it meant to tarnish the good name of honourable Muslims. It is meant to highlight the bad apples among us, the evil-doers among us, the transgressors among us, etc. And just like we passionately criticize the westerners, we need to criticize our own too who do wrong.

We should not think that Muslims can do no wrong. We should not live in a mind-state where the whole world is conspiring against us. America is imperialistic, greedy, selfish and invaded Iraq on totally dubious pretext but Uncle Sam is not anti-Islam as some Muslims like to paint the picture. It is after us because of our resources, it's shady interests in the region because of it's geographical location which is near China and Russia but not because of our religion. Not that this makes America any better, yet it's good to know your enemies well.

[جوري]

With that verse he was addressing LauraS.

An appropriate verse for the both of you. Indeed..

He dedicated the following verse for me and I quote:

Indeed many of your actions can be construed as seditious, inflammatory and plain wrong. I don't see how this was misused either?

I think this was uncalled for.

I don't.

That these are not meant to malign any pure and rightful resistance of the enemy or is it meant to tarnish the good name of honourable Muslims. It is meant to highlight the bad apples among us, the evil-doers among us, the transgressors among us, etc. And just like we passionately criticize the westerners, we need to criticize our own too who do wrong.

Who do you consider a good Muslim?


An-Nisa (The Women) [4:95]

[RECITE]

[top] [next match]

La yastawee alqaAAidoona mina almumineena ghayru olee alddarari waalmujahidoona fee sabeeli Allahi biamwalihim waanfusihim faddala Allahu almujahideena biamwalihim waanfusihim AAala alqaAAideena darajatan wakullan waAAada Allahu alhusna wafaddala Allahu almujahideena AAala alqaAAideena ajran AAatheeman

4:95 Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-

We should not think that Muslims can do no wrong. We should not live in a mind-state where the whole world is conspiring against us. America is imperialistic, greedy, selfish and invaded Iraq on totally dubious pretext but Uncle Sam is not anti-Islam as some Muslims like to paint the picture. It is after us because of our resources, it's shady interests in the region because of it's geographical location which is near China and Russia but not because of our religion. Not that this makes America any better, yet it's good to know your enemies well.

As stated if you're sitting at home doing nothing, then you are in no position to judge those whoa re doing something. Also you're too immature as is apparent to understand the geopolitical and socioeconomic conditions of the region or western interests which aren't a modern thing.. it goes way back.. maybe they're using the taliban as an excuse now but as stated in my prior post what was the interest before? Since the inception of Islam the sons of devils haven't quit and you're here quoting us questionable articles so we can jump on the mainstream bandwagon? Are you for real? You haven't a strategist cell left in your body?
You are welcome to your beliefs and obviously they're the otherwise popular beliefs and a product of the society you live in but you shouldn't begrudge or question those that mock the articles and the subsequent comments made.. Frankly if you're putting yourself out there then be prepared for what comes your way...

best,

[Roasted Cashew]

As stated if you're sitting at home doing nothing, then you are in no position to judge those whoa re doing something.

The verse doesn't say that I am in no position to judge them. It's just that we are not on the same turf. They are a grade higher than I am. Where does it say that those who are a grade higher than me are not accountable for their actions? And I clearly have said, I respect and have great awe for those who are pure and rightful in their resistant and do not trangress.

you're too immature

You are too paranoid.

You are welcome to your beliefs and obviously they're the otherwise popular beliefs

you are welcome to your beliefs as they are otherwise very popular and mainstream among most Muslims

product of the society you live in

so are yours...

you shouldn't begrudge or question those that mock the articles and the subsequent comments made

you begrudge and question me...why can't I question you?

Frankly if you're putting yourself out there then be prepared for what comes your way

have I shown any signs of wailing?

[جوري]

The verse doesn't say that I am in no position to judge them. It's just that we are not on the same turf. They are a grade higher than I am. Where does it say that those who are in grade higher than me are not accountable for their actions? And I clearly have said, I respect and have great awe for those who are pure and rightful in their resistant and do not trangress.

You're already starting from a disadvantage no? You're not par with them nor can you actually substantiate your claims against them.

You are too paranoid.

Oh in what way?

you are welcome to your beliefs as they are otherwise very popular and mainstream among most Muslims

Both sides can't be right now can they?

so are yours...

in what way, I was born and raised in the west so your statement is nothing more than ping pong with no substance..

you begrudge and question me...why can't I question you?

You're not very good at it that's why.

have I shown any signs of wailing?

roasting more like ..

best,

[Roasted Cashew]

nor can you actually substantiate your claims against them.

I would like to contest that...I certainly can if by them you mean those who transgress.

Oh in what way?

in assuming that everyone conspires against us (MUSLIMS) because of our religion..

in what way, I was born and raised in the west so your statement is nothing more than ping pong with no substance

I knew I was bad at ping pong yet, tried my luck without actually refuting your statement. I was born in Pakistan and raised both in Pakistan and Malaysia. Both are predominantly Muslim countries and majority of the society holds views similar to yours. So your accusation has no substance either.

You're not very good at it that's why.

Give me time. I am learning from the best..

roasting more like ..

Was already roasted when I arrived...:p

[Perseveranze]

Absolutly clueless.

Most villagers prefer the Taliban over the government and heavily support it (trust me, without that, Taliban wouldn't survive and gain the upper hand like it has been doing lately).

Alot of this is propoganda etc. It's always either the western media, or Christian Afghans who make this stuff up.

1. They don't target civilians.

2. They don't burn schools

3. They aren't against women working or getting an education.

[جوري]

I would like to contest that...I certainly can if by them you mean those who transgress.

I think br. Perseverance summed it best.. I can already find articles as we write this against the taliban it is called warfare.. and you're exactly the type of vessel it is aimed for.

in assuming that everyone conspires against us (MUSLIMS) because of our religion..

This is a load meaningless verbiage as stated you don't know enough to engage in this topic and I am tired of the circuitous drivel.

I knew I was bad at ping pong yet, tried my luck without actually refuting your statement. I was born in Pakistan and raised both in Pakistan and Malaysia. Both are predominantly Muslim countries and majority of the society holds views similar to yours. So your accusation has no substance either.

My statement wasn't alleging where you were born rather that you're a product of your society. I on the other hand have traveled all over, lived a substantial portion of my life in the west and yet am not a product of their making I am actually capable of a an abstract thought I am yet to see you do that.. Really bring an article and dissect it. You miss even the point of the article sr. Insaanah posted which is sad.

Give me time. I am learning from the best..

fair enough

Was already roasted when I arrived...:p

[Roasted Cashew]

heavily support it (trust me, without that, Taliban wouldn't survive and gain the upper hand like it has been doing lately).

I trust you. But how many of them support out of fear? Or have you personally surveyed everyone of them.

1. They don't target civilians.

2. They don't burn schools

3. They aren't against women working or getting an education.

Where are these noble and honourable Taliban hiding? Taliban has got many factions with some even without particular distinguishable names. Not all of them are the same. I am sure you already know that and purposely ignored that fact.

[Roasted Cashew]

warfare

both sides are on war. both sides produce propaganda.

I am tired of the circuitous drivel.

So am I.

rather that you're a product of your society.

I think that is exactly what I refuted. Read again.

[Roasted Cashew]

Bad tanning session, that's all.

[جوري]

both sides are on war. both sides produce propaganda.

Correction, neither Afghanistan nor neighboring countries actually declared war on the west. They were sitting in their land the land they inhabited for millenniums and intruders came in.. every single time they come with greed... Please read before you write .. just even basic things, because you're starting to make me annoyed and I so don't want to be annoyed.

So am I.

But you perpetuate it how can you be tired of it and doing it at the same time? You seem confused on top of other things.

I think that is exactly what I refuted. Read again.

You refuted nothing.. your understanding of things is very superficial it makes this whole discussion moot.

Bad tanning session, that's all.

she loves it and apparently you love it too!

best,

[Roasted Cashew]

Correction, neither Afghanistan nor neighboring countries actually declared war on the west.

Indeed, but Afghanistan(Taliban) harbored a man who publicly in his interview declared a war on the west or was it specifically America. I can't seem to recall. But he did.

Added:

It doesn't matter anyway. Now, both are fighting each other. That's what matters - in terms of producing propaganda.

[جوري]

Indeed, but Afghanistan(Taliban) harbored a man who publicly in his interview declared a war on the west or was it specifically America. I can't seem to recall. But he did.

you mean him?


oh yeah God those demands he made, those words he uttered... So much for freedom of speech!
anyhow he has gone to his lord. Why are they still droning and torching kids in the night?

[Roasted Cashew]

you mean him?

Yup. That is him.

[جوري]

Yup. That is him.

neither his demands if you bothered watch the interview nor his presence or non-presence have anything to do with the rabies that infested the west to put their tentacles all over the region.
You want to be in love with the rabid ones and hateful toward the Taliban and other Muslims then please do so on your private time, but when I see it posted here then ready yourself for what comes your way..

best,

[Roasted Cashew]

neither his demands if you bothered watch the interview nor his presence or non-presence have anything to do with the rabies that infested the west to put their tentacles all over the region.

It has something to do with 9/11...

You want to be in love with the rabid ones and hateful toward the Taliban and other Muslims

Neither I am in in love with rabid ones, nor do i revere the transgressors. Salam.

[جوري]

It has something to do with 9/11...

Even if I accept the faulty premise which includes such things as invincible passports and wtc 7 your pals in the west bombed an aspirin factory in Sudan first killing civilians plus countless other heinous crimes of huge magnitude & civilian casualties also ALL listed here on the forum..Do you read at all? or just sit there like an empty vessel in front of corporate news all the time?

Neither I am in in love with rabid ones, nor do i revere the transgressors. Salam.

Apparently you do!!

wa3lykoum

[جوري]

.for your viewing pleasure:

• Libya 1982 - USA shoots down 2 Libyan jets.
• Lebanon 1982-84 - US bombs and shells Muslim positions, expels PLO from territory.
• Iraq 1987-88 - US supports and arms Saddam Hussein's Iraq in war against Iran.
• Iran 1988 - US shoots down Iranian passenger airliner, killing 290 civilians. Claims it was an "accident".
• Libya 1989 - US bombs capitol Tripoli killing 55 civilians. Calls it "collateral damage".
• Kuwait 1991 - US invades Middle East, contradicting its position by intervening in inter-Arab affairs. Returns Kuwaiti Monarchy accused of human right abuses to throne.
• Iraq 1990 - today - US randomly bombs civilian areas. Blockades Iraqi ports, allows no humanitarian or medical aid. est. 10,000 Iraqi's starve/die monthly as result.
• Somalia 1992-94 - US sends in humanitarian aid. Becomes involved in Civil war, takes sides at
• Bosnia 1993 - US naval blockade of Serbia and Montenegro.
• Sudan 1998 - US bombs Aspirin Factory in Khartoum killing civilians.
• Afghanistan 1998 - US missiles kill 28 civilians
• Afghanistan 2001 - ?

this is by the way a very dated list but you should familiarize yourself with some basic history, perhaps then you can understand why all the animosity exists, with people who are doing nothing more than defending their land, their homes and their freedoms..

[Abz2000]

maybe laura and glo can understand something from this, and cashew can reflect on his allegiances:

1The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away,
none considering that the righteous is taken away from the evil to come.
2He shall enter into peace: they shall rest in their beds, each one walking in his uprightness.

3But draw near hither, ye sons of the sorceress, the seed of the adulterer and the wh0re

4Against whom do ye sport yourselves? against whom make ye a wide mouth, and draw out the tongue? are ye not children of transgression, a seed of falsehood,

5Enflaming yourselves with idols under every green tree, slaying the children in the valleys under the clifts of the rocks?
Isaiah 57


and cashew, u seem to enjoy repeating the same drivel over and over even after being refuted.
i mentioned before that this is a war against Islam, and the only reason for pretending that it's "just for oil" / only against "fundamentalists", is a ploy to keep the rest of the ummah and the world at large divided, considering it an issue unrelated to themselves.
they have made it clear that their fear is Islam, and have even written PUBLISHED memos on how to stem the tide of the coming Caliphate - and even how to prevent it.
Any Muslim worth his salt knows that Islamic government for Muslims is a core principle of Islam, and without it there is no Ummah.
please don't keep repeating the lie that "we are paranoid for believing that this is a conspiracy against Islam", or implying that it's just the oil of some Iraqis to whom were unrelated in terms of geographic nearness and nationality.

[LauraS]

Your comment speaks of your experience directly with Afghans, I am still waiting for that or that of afghans living there daily whom your surveyed. Not some screen name on a forum!
until you deliver on that I suggest you not waste my time!

best,

My comment never spoke of experience with Afghan people, aside from the member of this forum. You are confused as to what I meant.

---

Abz- Are you suggesting this member was simply a liar and those Afghani people that set up those charities? What proof would be good enough? Yet on this forum an unspecified source spoke of a rumour that American soldiers had raped a truck full of women and it was instantly believed. Can't you see the hypocrisy? If an Afghani person had joined the forum with good things to say about the Taliban, would you have believed him then?

I am western I can see we're not all angels and western soliders have committed atrocities, but it seems few Muslim members can even entertain the idea that the Taliban are anything but good men.


I can see this thread going the same way as every other about the Taliban. :heated:


I know this is the guardian so you'll dismiss it straight away but still, have a read about the acid attacks:
Out of interest, if you don't believe the Taliban carry out these attacks, who do you think does?

[Roasted Cashew]

How do you feel about the acid attacks in the U.S.. who do you think carries those out?

So you answer her question with quoting a story of an acid attack in the US? So are you saying it happens in the US, so what if it happens here as well. You are good in evading questions. The topic of the thread is TALIBAN, not the US. So what she asked is totally appropriate..and have you compared the number of such cases in the US and Afghanistan/Pakistan??

[Abz2000]

this thread is soooo dumb,
you don't go to the oppressed and ask about his tolerance,
and you don't go to the sheep and ask him why he hates the wolf, and if he's got hatred in him, or whether he's racist or narrow minded.
it just doesn't wash,
heres sumthing for ya cashew:

[جوري]

So you answer her question with quoting a story of an acid attack in the US? So are you saying it happens in the US, so what if it happens here as well. You are good in evading questions. The topic of the thread is TALIBAN, not the US. So what she asked is totally appropriate..and have you compared the number of such cases in the US and Afghanistan/Pakistan??

what I am saying is quit with the outpouring of phony sympathy and concern. You don't know the story and the job of a newspaper is to transmit news not propogate no-orientalism along with active creation, shaping, and manufacturing, through a lengthy process of selection, filtering, interpretation, and editing as is done with one purpose in mind. Why is her ladyship not outraged by acid attacks in the west. I don't even see them getting an honorable mention. But you're all such experts on the Taliban? How about you cut the crap?

[Roasted Cashew]

[URL="http://bible.cc/isaiah/57-1.htm"]

Awesome video...just favorite it on YouTube. She mentions that this is war for economic gain. They are after our resources and want to have a grip on strategic locations for economic gains for certain companies. Nowhere in her speech she says this is a war against Islam. ^o)

[Abz2000]

lol u act soooo dumb,
that's one speech of many thousands on the planet

ever heard of the horse's mouth???

The following Hadith from Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal can be understood to prophesy two eras of Caliphate (both on the lines/precepts of prophethood).

"Hadhrat Huzaifa narrated that the Messenger of Allah said:
Prophethood will remain among you as long as Allah wills.
Then Caliphate (Khilafah) on the lines of Prophethood shall commence,
and remain as long as Allah wills.
Then corrupt/erosive monarchy would take place,
and it will remain as long as Allah wills.
After that, despotic kingship would emerge,
and it will remain as long as Allah wills.
Then, the Caliphate (Khilafah) shall come once again based on the precept of Prophethood."

President Bush
“The militants believe that controlling one country will rally the Muslim masses, enabling them to overthrow all moderate governments in the region, and establish a radical Islamic empire that spans from Spain to Indonesia"
“The murderous ideology of the Islamic radicals is the great challenge of our new century. Yet, in many ways, this fight resembles the struggle against communism in the last century."



**** Cheney [Vice President, Speech in Sydney, Australia February 2007]
" ...And it is they, the terrorists, who have ambitions of empire. Their goal in the broader Middle East is to seize control of a country, so they have a base from which they can launch attacks against governments that refuse to meet their demands. Their ultimate aim -- and one they boldly proclaim -- is to establish a caliphate covering a region from Spain, across North Africa, through the Middle East and South Asia, all the way to Indonesia. And it wouldn't stop there.
...The war on terror is more than a contest of arms, and more than a test of will. It is a battle of ideas...."


Donald Rumsfeld [US Secretary of Defense, December 5 2005]
In a speech at the Paul Nitze School of Advanced Studies at Johns Hopkins:

"...Iraq would serve as the base of a new Islamic caliphate to extend throughout the Middle East and which would threaten the legitimate governments in Europe, Africa, and Asia. This is their plan. They have said so. We make a terrible mistake if we fail to listen and learn...."


Eric Edelman [Undersecretary of Defense for Policy]

December 1, 2005, Council on Foreign Relations, Washington, DC

"...So I think we need to be very clear. Iraq's future will either embolden terrorists and expand their reach and ability to establish a — reestablish a caliphate, or it will deal them a crippling blow. For us, failure in Iraq is just not an option..."

General John Abizaid, [Chief of US Central Command, 29th Sept. 2005]
In a speech to US law makers said:
"Al Qaeda terrorists hope to drive American influence from the Middle East and install a global Muslim leader in Saudi Arabia.....If al Qaeda terrorists manage to take control of Saudi Arabia, they will try to create and expand their influence in the region and establish a caliphate."


Gen. Richard Myers, [The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff]
While addressing a Pentagon news conference stressed:
“If the Zarqawis of the world were allowed to be successful in Iraq in their view,
and that would be the start of the caliphate that they envision, the stakes would be huge for the region,"


Henry Kissinger, [Nov 2004]
Asked in an interview “What in your opinion are the principal threats of the age?” He answered - “First, is what we call terrorism in the United States, but which is really the uprising of radical Islam against the secular world, and against the democratic world, on behalf of re-establishing a sort of Caliphate. That is directed as much against moderate Islam, than it is against non-Islamic societies.”


Patrick J. Buchanan, [June 23, 2006. Founder of magazine ‘The American Conservative’. Has served three presidents in the White House]

“If Islamic rule is an idea taking hold among the Islamic masses,
how does even the best army on earth stop it?
Do we not need a new policy?”


President Vladimir Putin
The Russian leader said at a European Union summit in Brussels that western civilisation faced a mortal threat from Muslim terrorists, and claimed that they had plans to create a "worldwide caliphate".
"…The creation of a caliphate on the territory of the Russian Federation is only part one of their plan. In fact, if you are following the situation, you surely know that the radicals are pursuing a larger goal: They are talking about the creation of a world caliphate…”

The Washington Post [January 14, 2006]
The Washington Post headed an article with the title " Reunified Islam: Unlikely but Not Entirely Radical, Restoration of Caliphate, Attacked by Bush, Resonates With Mainstream Muslims", arguing that such a call is not radical nor only resonant with Islamic guerrilla movements

.................

They are after our resources and want to have a grip on strategic locations for economic gains for certain companies. Nowhere in her speech she says this is a war against Islam.

.................

be assured that Allah will fulfill His light however much the deniers and the hypocrites may hate it.

[Roasted Cashew]

lol u act soooo dumb,
that's one speech of many thousands on the planet

Well Mr. Smart, next time if you wanna tell me that this War is against Islam, pls post the video which goes with it. You post one video and then your drivel which accompanies is about something that that video never mentions. Not so sure if that is very smart.

[جوري]

Well Mr. Smart, next time if you wanna tell me that this War is against Islam, pls post the video which goes with it. You post one video and then your drivel which accompanies is about something that that video never mentions. Not so sure if that is very smart.

I did on the previous page did you not see? and stated please feel free to watch the entire 'war on Islam-don't be silly' series. How about you challenge yourself by taking your head out of the telescope? You might be surprised that there's a whole planet out there and that you're just looking at one crater with fixation..

best,

[Abz2000]

lol u act soooo dumb,<br>that's one speech of many thousands on the planet<br>

Well Mr. Smart, next time if you wanna tell me that this War is against Islam, pls post the video which goes with it. You post one video and then your drivel which accompanies is about something that that video never mentions. Not so sure if that is very smart.

haha so all your opinions are based on what i post - i'm flattered. :statisfie
it was nice to c you totally pass by the refutation of your claim that this is a war only for resources.
maybe ur hoping it's quickly forgotten so you can post the same false claims on another thread - or better still, even on this thread.

[Roasted Cashew]

it was nice to c you totally pass by the refutation

You added that later. So yea, they are afraid of the caliphate. That too for economic reasons. They are worried that if this one leader of the entire Muslim world somehow turns out to be anti-western, he would put hurdles in their goals of economic and strategic monopoly.

Your claims doesn't make much sense because the Taliban are not well known for their fight for a Calipahate. Hizbut-tahrir is. Nor was Saddam in any favour of the Calipahate when they attacked Iraq. I don't think there is any Muslim country in the world today that is in favour of a Caliphate. Personally, I am.

[Abz2000]

huh?!
iraq, iran, libya and syria are all armed countries that are hostile to the zionist regime and have been supporting militia movements in palestine, and the satanists know that these are a threat to their future goals, notice how all the puppet arab governments havent been discredited despite their putting down protests just as they were beginning.

[Roasted Cashew]

I did on the previous page did you not see? and stated please feel free to watch the entire 'war on Islam-don't be silly' series.

Those are basically footages of some random irresponsible young soldiers spewing out **** and some of it is about someone proselytizing to school children. Is that your definition of "WAR on ISLAM"? War on Islam means them attacking us on the premise of us being Muslims and following the religion of Allah. That would mean, them coming in, destroying our mosques, build churches on top of it, massacring us just for being Muslims, etc. A soldier spewing garbage doesn't equal to them attacking us because we adhere to Islam and random videos of missionary work doesn't mean they attacked us to convert us all.

[Jedi_Mindset]

Thanks to people like roasted cashew the afghan people are let down and getting massacred by the Americans and their allies who don't want shariah law to rule afghanistan. Why? Because they know about the black flags of khurasan, thats why they invaded afghanistan at first.

[Roasted Cashew]

Thanks to people like roasted cashew the afghan people are let down and getting massacred by the Americans and their allies

I am not sure how I am directly or indirectly responsible for war crimes??

[Jedi_Mindset]

I am not sure how I am directly or indirectly responsible for war crimes??

Because u do not support the resistance against the satanic forces, think wise. Don't make a fool out of yourself, not saying to insult you but rather to open your eyes.

Everyone who in my eyes stays on the sideline when oppression occurs is a loser, a BIG one. The taliban were against the criminal communist secular afghans, the same afghans who are now in power there. And Insha'Allah they will be guided backed to the right path again or defeated.

[جوري]

Those are basically footages of some random irresponsible young soldiers spewing out **** and some of it is about someone proselytizing to school children. Is that your definition of "WAR on ISLAM"? War on Islam means them attacking us on the premise of us being Muslims and following the religion of Allah. That would mean, them coming in, destroying our mosques, build churches on top of it, massacring us just for being Muslims, etc. A soldier spewing garbage doesn't equal to them attacking us because we adhere to Islam and random videos of missionary work doesn't mean they attacked us to convert us all.

watch the entire series before you open your bazoo. One little thing here another little thing there a million people killed here a million people killed there, an occupied country here an occupied country there adds up. I don't know how your brain functions but honestly I hope for your sake you pursue a career that doesn't require any strategy or abstract thought.. I think you'd your whole team and your whole company under..

best,

[LauraS]

what I am saying is quit with the outpouring of phony sympathy and concern. You don't know the story and the job of a newspaper is to transmit news not propogate no-orientalism along with active creation, shaping, and manufacturing, through a lengthy process of selection, filtering, interpretation, and editing as is done with one purpose in mind. Why is her ladyship not outraged by acid attacks in the west. I don't even see them getting an honorable mention. But you're all such experts on the Taliban? How about you cut the crap?

lol, I know you think highly of me but please, my dear, "her ladyship" is not necessary. :statisfie

[Jedi_Mindset]

Roasted Cashew doesn't know that this is infact a war on islam but in a new suit, deception of dajjal included.

[Roasted Cashew]

I don't know how your brain functions but honestly I hope for your sake you pursue a career that doesn't require any strategy or abstract thought

Currently I am pursuing a MD(Doctor of Medicine) degree. Do you think this is a safe choice considering you know a lot about my brain cells.

[جوري]

Currently I am pursuing a MD(Doctor of Medicine) degree. Do you think this is a safe choice considering you know a lot about my brain cells.

Let us know if they slide you through your courses how well you fair on the state boards!

best,

[White Rose]

Roasted Cashew doesn't know that this is infact a war on islam but in a new suit, deception of dajjal included.

Not many people do sadly. As Sheikh Hasan said, one trick of satan is that he makes people think he doesn't exist. Now when people think he doesn't exist, how can they defend themselves against him?

Now, only an unintelligent politician who wants to do something for his personal gain will announce his real intentions.

[Muhammad]

I can see the end is near. The end of this thread that is...

If someone holds a different viewpoint and we strongly feel they are wrong, we have to explain to them in the best manner possible. Using insults and personal attacks, including judging the person as being a hypocrite, is not acceptable. When Prophet Musa (alayhis-salam) was commanded to go to Pharaoh, one of the worst tyrants known in history, Allaah (swt) advised Musa to speak gently:

"And speak to him mildly, perhaps he may accept admonition or fear (Allah)." [Ta-Ha: 44]

In this thread we are speaking to our own fellow Muslims, and yet we are resorting to such degrading remarks. It is not our place to look into someone's heart and judge them. Do your best to convey the message and in a manner that will benefit, not drive the person away further.

If personal attacks continue this thread will be closed without any further warning.

[Roasted Cashew]

I can see the end is near. The end of this thread that is...

If someone holds a different viewpoint and we strongly feel they are wrong, we have to explain to them in the best manner possible. Using insults and personal attacks, including judging the person as being a hypocrite, is not acceptable. When Prophet Musa (alayhis-salam) was commanded to go to Pharaoh, one of the worst tyrants known in history, Allaah (swt) advised Musa to speak gently:

"And speak to him mildly, perhaps he may accept admonition or fear (Allah)." [Ta-Ha: 44]

In this thread we are speaking to our own fellow Muslims, and yet we are resorting to such degrading remarks. It is not our place to look into someone's heart and judge them. Do your best to convey the message and in a manner that will benefit, not drive the person away further.

If personal attacks continue this thread will be closed without any further warning.

Pleased to know that administrators and moderators of this IB are of such high manner and caliber. :peace:

[جوري]

If someone holds a different viewpoint and we strongly feel they are wrong, we have to explain to them in the best manner possible. Using insults and personal attacks, including judging the person as being a hypocrite, is not acceptable. When Prophet Musa (alayhis-salam) was commanded to go to Pharaoh, one of the worst tyrants known in history, Allaah (swt) advised Musa to speak gently:

They are not the pharaoh nor are we Moses .. I'd suggest you close the thread indeed as backbiting (amongst other endless heinous things) against your brothers who are fighting for their freedom and the freedom of their country outweighs in my humble opinion the intention of one forumer and his band of like minded individuals.
I am not sure if ingratiating himself to admin on every thread where he's caught perpetuating the most vile accusations against freedom fighters is enough incentive to look past the obvious. We don't have to assume or look into someone's heart to judge the obvious...
I hope Muslims would let go of the fear in their heart whatever fear or khunoo3 that disables them from saying a word of truth to tyrants whatever their form.

:w:

[Roasted Cashew]

Because u do not support the resistance against the satanic forces

I do. Here:

I clearly have said, I respect and have great awe for those who are pure and rightful in their resistant and do not trangress.

[Insaanah]

:sl:

I'd like to pose a question here.

Let's say we have two groups of Muslims. Each views the other as an oppressor in some way. Both have a common enemy, who has invaded their land, bombed their land from above and from within the ground, and is also gaining control of natural resources etc. Should a group of Muslims sit and criticise the other and quantify the other's shortcomings, "mistakes, sins and evils", highlight the "bad-apples", before "lifting a finger" at the enemy (while the enemy does what it likes to their land and people in the meantime) OR, should that group, based on their common bond of faith, unite with the other against the common enemy and leave the fault-picking (which actually should be advising) til afterwards? Which takes precedence in this situation?

P.S. You cannot give "we all need to rectify ourselves first and correct whats in our hearts and leave our sins to enable us to unite in that manner" as an answer because remember, the enemy is already invading, and you don't have time for that (though that's not to say that shouldn't be done).

[جوري]

Making demands on others without examining directly their position or vilifying them through endless backbiting, questionable comments and articles (during war time when all kinds of warfare is allowed apparently) whilst exempting the self or feeling great injury when others point out things obvious to the naked eye while denying others that same right to me is a grievous thing indeed...

like the Egyptian adage that speaks of those who murder an individual and then walk in his funeral shedding alligator tears.
Consider that this is out in the open and everyone has a chance to defend themselves.. no such courtesy is granted those great awful talibs or that bogeyman O or that other bogeyman ... no they don't even get a trial they're guilty because the cretins said so.
If you can't help then at least avoid others the harm your lips and fingers spew!

[GuestFellow]

Salaam,

We should try to remain as objective as possible. What we need is facts, which is hard to obtain. However, we can speculate. I'm not going to dismiss the article as full of lies and fabrications. It does contain an element of truth.

I remember a Taliban spokesperson said that women were not permitted to go to schools because it was dangerous. Afghanistan is dangerous due to the conflicts. It was invaded by Soviet Russia and now by USA. So there was a lot of instability. It was common for girls to get kidnapped by warlords, so girls were encouraged to stay at home. I think this applied to young boys as well. This is why it was prohibited to send girls to schools or something along those lines.

Not sure if the above is true because it is based on watching a video about a Taliban spokesperson. I can't seem to find the video but I'll try to surf the net for it.

[Roasted Cashew]

Each views the other as an oppressor in some way.

I view some Taliban members as transgressors. I don't see how I can be perceived as oppressive by the these transgressors in return. Anyway, let's go ahead..

Should a group of Muslims sit and criticise the other and quantify the other's shortcomings, "mistakes, sins and evils", highlight the "bad-apples"

YES!

before "lifting a finger" at the enemy

I also condemn the atrocities committed by the enemy. What I say is we need to condemn our own just as passionately.

OR, should that group, based on their common bond of faith, unite with the other against the common enemy

You do not know - how much relieve and pleasure I get when I hear the demise of an invading soldier. I am all for pure and rightful resistant of the enemy.

and leave the fault-picking (which actually should be advising) til afterwards

That would be too late. This should go side by side. Societies which do not hold their leaders and fighters accountable till too late do not usually end up on the right side of history.

[GuestFellow]

:sl:

I'd like to pose a question here.

Let's say we have two groups of Muslims.

Each views the other as an oppressor in some way. Both have a common enemy, who has invaded their land, bombed their land from above and from within the ground, and is also gaining control of natural resources etc. Should a group of Muslims sit and criticise the other and quantify the other's shortcomings, "mistakes, sins and evils", highlight the "bad-apples", before "lifting a finger" at the enemy (while the enemy does what it likes to their land and people in the meantime) OR, should that group, based on their common bond of faith, unite with the other against the common enemy and leave the fault-picking (which actually should be advising) til afterwards? Which takes precedence in this situation?

P.S. You cannot give "we all need to rectify ourselves first and correct whats in our hearts and leave our sins to enable us to unite in that manner" as an answer because remember, the enemy is already invading, and you don't have time for that (though that's not to say that shouldn't be done).

:wa:

If there are two groups of Muslims and each view each other as the oppressor, then this cannot be ignored. There is a reason why both groups view each other as the oppressor. For both groups to unite to fight against a particular enemy will only be a short-term alliance. Through discussion, debate and criticism, we learn to understand why each group views each other as the enemy. Overall, what your advocating is not practicable. Let's assume both groups committed atrocities against each other and no one was held to be accountable. The victims would feel anger and would not unite with a group that participated in these atrocities.

Let's assume both groups unite and destroy the enemy. The conflict between these two groups will continue. Then one group will probably seek outside assistance to beat the other.

As for the Taliban, I do not support nor trust them. I do not trust the invaders, nor any other resistance. I have no idea what is going on. I'm basing my information on secondary sources. Even video footages cannot be trusted, due to editing. With the Taliban in particular, this group accepted military and financial support from the USA, a country that formed an alliance between Zionist Christians and Zionist Jews.

I don't believe the Taliban are evil. I do not absorb the rubbish that is presented on the mainstream media. However, I do think we need to be careful who we are supporting.

I'm truly concerned. Many Muslims are quick to support anyone that is against America from my experience. This includes regimes in China, Russia and political figures like Gadaffi and Saddam.

[Muhammad]

:wa:

They are not the pharaoh nor are we Moses ..

Of course, but in their story are many lessons for all of us.

I'd suggest you close the thread indeed as backbiting (amongst other endless heinous things) against your brothers who are fighting for their freedom and the freedom of their country outweighs in my humble opinion the intention of one forumer and his band of like minded individuals.

My point is only that there are better ways to argue a case, regardless of who is right and wrong. If someone is backbiting, we have to correct that in a proper manner. It doesn't make sense that we tell someone to stop insulting other Muslims, by insulting that person ourselves! It is one thing to correct a mistake, but another to allow anger to get the better of us.

[جوري]

Ok, fair enough.. let's paint out western interests in the regions and all the regions as they see them an extension of their imperialists grip on the world which is becoming polarized between what they perceive to be them (good) and china (evil) we're merely play things in the middle as they don't see a real threat past an ideological one which they perceive to have under control and it is apparent that, it is indeed the case given our sheer number and the state we're currently in!

Let's start out with Vietnam since there were no bearded hideous oppressive men to beat on the women for our good friends to act all heroic & save the day, no OBL's no 911 no so-called 'weapons of mass destruction'
France was losing in the region, they were fast becoming POW. America afraid of course the region would go to China over western imperialism they move in to inherit France so to speak-- they used herbicides and defoliants, agent orange they spray entire rivers killing plants, wildlife, fish etc. Killing how many people..well collateral damage after all and as always & sweep it under the rug. This is a mere example of numerous similar acts, just look it in every country there's always something which they're behind like the bay of pigs. People their people specifically if they're not touched by the suffering then there is no harm, the others from their view are all savages!

To shed light on our part in their game--Iraq the second place in the region after KSA producing oil, KSA is already in their pockets, Afghanistan, well Afghanistan of course has that large gas pipeline running throughout. Control both things, China their largest threat will have to get their resources either through the U.S directly and the U.S can of course ration what they get or China can get it through Iran and there's not much room there for China to be a contender.
All the people vilified, killed in the process again it is a privilege and anything to perpetuate their agenda is all acceptable forms of warfare. They can always throw in a black guy like Collin Powell to speak of the WMD and why would he be a sellout to those white imperialists and they play that game of unity and religion is evil well. Just have a look at our resident trolls be they Atheists or Christians.. one against 'tribalism and the other of let's all join hands and clap while injecting venom every which way'

The U.S uses a shuttle to fly over Iran, Syria etc to check out the region all our data is in their pockets-- they also use use satellites to even checkout the wheat production in the region and they play that game of wheat really well.. we're far from being at par with them and it is because we've morons arguing over trifles.

During the days of the prophet even though they were less in numbers but at least at par equipment wise, they had roman type weaponry from the gulf of Aqba (ilaf) modern day Jordan as it was under Roman rule the equivalent of modern day tanks on wheels and leathered and that was used in the Thaqif siege and of course they had faith.. when they had someone they suspected of fitnah they adhered to the law of Allah swt:

[][][183513673] Al-Hujurat (The Dwellings)[49:6] [RECITE] [top] [next match] Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo in jaakum fasiqun binabain fatabayyanoo an tuseeboo qawman bijahalatin fatusbihoo AAala ma faAAaltum nadimeena 49:6 O ye who believe! If a wicked person comes to you with any news, ascertain the truth, lest ye harm people unwittingly, and afterwards become full of repentance for what ye have done.

They worked as one unit.. They didn't take the news of their affairs from their enemy...
So think long and hard before you bring idiotic news on here nit picking with your two kaffir buddies on the ills of Muslims. What are you doing to help, for even if they are all the crap you suggest what are you doing to make it better? *****ing to us about it?

[Abz2000]

Let's assume both groups committed atrocities against each other and no one was held to be accountable. The victims would feel anger and would not unite with a group that participated in these atrocities.

i respectfully disagree brother,
this was how the Islamic state was born
the aws and the khazraj were massacring each other to the extent that all their leaders had been killed,
after wearing out and realizing that they were being weakened (and while the jews were benefiting from their disaster by being able to lend on usury),
they decided to bring the Prophet pbuh to Madinah and one of the main reasons were putting aside past disputes and uniting.

this unity was fragile for a long time even after the arrival of the Prophet pbuh in Madinah, and they would reach for their swords in any dispute, and compete to outdo each other in pleasing the Prophet pbuh.
but they were men, battle hardened and wisened men, men who understood putting aside minor differences for the cause of unity.

among their first pronouncements were, this is the man whom the jews spoke of, it may be that Allah will unite us through him.


The city of Yathrib, now known as Madinah (meaning ‘The City’), was inhabited at the time of the Prophet by two major Arab tribes, the Aws and the Khazraj.

These two tribes had a long history of bloody wars which sapped their strength. The last of these battles, named Buath, took place about two years before the events we are now relating.
....
Every time the Arabs of Madinah clashed with the Jews, the latter would say: "It will not be long before a new messenger shall be sent by God. We shall follow him and will kill you all in the same way as the peoples of Ad and Iram were killed." The six Khazrajis did not hesitate to accept what the Prophet said. They were Asad ibn Zurarah, Awf ibn al-Harith, Rafi ibn Malik, Qutbah ibn Amir ibn Hadidah, Uqbah ibn Amir ibn Zayd and Jabir ibn Abdullah ibn Riab.

They declared their belief in God and the message of Muhammad. They also said to the Prophet:

"We have left our people in an unprecedented state of mutual hostility.
May God make you the cause of their unity.
We shall call on them to follow you and explain to them your religion which we have accepted.
Should God unite them in following you, you shall enjoy with them a position of the highest prestige."

verses were revealed regarding this difference.
O ye who believe! Fear Allah as He should be feared, and die not except in a state of Islam.
And hold fast, all together, by the rope which Allah (stretches out for you), and be not divided among yourselves; and remember with gratitude Allah's favour on you; for ye were enemies and He joined your hearts in love, so that by His Grace, ye became brethren; and ye were on the brink of the pit of Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus doth Allah make His Signs clear to you: That ye may be guided.
Let there arise out of you a band of people inviting to all that is good, enjoining what is right, and forbidding what is wrong: They are the ones to attain felicity.
Quran 3:102-104

[Abz2000]

when some of the companions made the mistake of fighting in the sacred month, the pagans of Arabia milked it to the max,
and the munafiqeen in Madinah were using it to sow dissent amongst the Muslims, and the Prophet pbuh refused to take any of the prisoners or booty, to the extent that the companions who took part in the expedition were afraid, we went out in the way of Allah, and now Allah is dipleased with us.

a while later the verses were revealed:

They ask thee concerning fighting in the Prohibited Month.
Say: "Fighting therein is a grave (offence);
but graver is it in the sight of God to prevent access to the path of God,
to deny Him,
to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque,
and drive out its members."
Tumult and oppression are worse than fighting.
Nor will they cease fighting you until they turn you back from your faith if they can.
And if any of you Turn back from their faith and die in unbelief,
their works will bear no fruit in this life and in the Hereafter;
they will be companions of the Fire and will abide therein.
Quran 2:222

and another verse:

Those who believed and those who suffered exile and fought (and strove and struggled) in the path of Allah,
- they have the hope of the Mercy of Allah: And Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
Quran 2:218

the Prophet pbuh after that announced to them the good news, and even took a share of the spoils of war.

here is a detailed exposition of what happened and how the kuffar and munafiqeen tried to use it, and how Allah responded.

it shows how munafiqeen and kuffar commit henious crimes, then nit-pick at insignificant events in order to weaken the believers.

and in the case of this thread which is from a fasiq source, it's not even worth the amount of input and effort we've gone to.

i've forwarded the player to the exact detailed event with the explanation of how believers are advised, but if it doesn't work in the embedded url, just scroll to 25mins :15 seconds, or hit the link below it.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...Z0ajJU#t=1515s

btw, regarding the feigned horror - iraq, this is from a book i picked up a few years back,
it's called: iraq - the rise of the resistance:
Over the coming weeks thousands of Iraqis, from teachers to former soldiers, port workers and public servants, marched for jobs, the reopening of ministries and the payment of salaries. On 28 April a small crowd gathered near a school in Fallujah housing US troops. Fallujah did not witness the looting and chaos that gripped many parts of the country in the wake of the invasion. Tribal sheikhs and religious leaders ensured security in the city. The crowd insisted the US troops were not needed and demanded that soldiers handed the school back to the city authorities and left town. The troops opened fire, killing 13. The killings in Fallujah would propel the Sunni city into the heart of a new national movement......
....Tragic things were already happening as Franks was meeting his commanders: looting, burning of the major administration centres, the stripping of Iraq’s already threadbare infrastructure. Hospitals, schools and universities were emptied and set ablaze. For most Iraqis, the coalition troops brought with them chaos and anarchy.

[GuestFellow]

i respectfully disagree brother,
this was how the Islamic state was born
the aws and the khazraj were massacring each other to the extent that all their leaders had been killed,
after wearing out and realizing that they were being weakened (and while the jews were benefiting from their disaster by being able to lend on usury),
they decided to bring the Prophet pbuh to Madinah and one of the main reasons were putting aside past disputes and uniting.

this unity was fragile for a long time even after the arrival of the Prophet pbuh in Madinah, and they would reach for their swords in any dispute, and compete to outdo each other in pleasing the Prophet pbuh.
but they were men, battle hardened and wisened men, men who understood putting aside minor differences for the cause of unity.

among their first pronouncements were, this is the man whom the jews spoke of, it may be that Allah will unite us through him.


The city of Yathrib, now known as Madinah (meaning ‘The City’), was inhabited at the time of the Prophet by two major Arab tribes, the Aws and the Khazraj.

These two tribes had a long history of bloody wars which sapped their strength. The last of these battles, named Buath, took place about two years before the events we are now relating.

A large Jewish community had lived in Madinah for well over a century. All history books agree that the Jews were instrumental in keeping the two Arab tribes, the Aws and the Khazraj, at each other's throats. Historians also relate that the Jews came to Madinah because their sacred books mention it as the place where the last messenger from God was to establish his state.

Like the rest of the Arabs, the Aws and the Khazraj were idolaters. In common with all Arabs they revered the Kabah and offered pilgrimage. In a pilgrimage season after the Prophet had adopted his strategy of speaking to the various Arab tribes, seeking their protection in his fulfillment of his mission, a group of six men from the Khazraj tribe were offering the pilgrimage.

The Prophet met them at a place called Aqabah, at Mina, where pilgrims encamp for three days. When they identified themselves to the Prophet and he ascertained that they were the neighbors of the Jews, he sought to explain his message to them. They were willing to listen to what he had to say.

The Prophet outlined to them the principles of his message and read them a passage from the Quran. He called on them to believe in God as the only deity to be worshipped. Some of them said to the others: "You may be sure that he is the Prophet with whom the Jews keep threatening you. Let them not be the first to follow him."

That apparently touched a sensitive nerve with them. The Arabs of Madinah used to respect the Jewish religion. They recognized that their own pagan beliefs stood no comparison with the monotheistic religion of the Jews, who professed to have better knowledge of God and man.

Every time the Arabs of Madinah clashed with the Jews, the latter would say: "It will not be long before a new messenger shall be sent by God. We shall follow him and will kill you all in the same way as the peoples of Ad and Iram were killed." The six Khazrajis did not hesitate to accept what the Prophet said. They were Asad ibn Zurarah, Awf ibn al-Harith, Rafi ibn Malik, Qutbah ibn Amir ibn Hadidah, Uqbah ibn Amir ibn Zayd and Jabir ibn Abdullah ibn Riab.

They declared their belief in God and the message of Muhammad. They also said to the Prophet:

"We have left our people in an unprecedented state of mutual hostility.
May God make you the cause of their unity.
We shall call on them to follow you and explain to them your religion which we have accepted.
Should God unite them in following you, you shall enjoy with them a position of the highest prestige."

Salaam,

I'll make myself clear. It is not impossible for groups that opposed each other to unite. However, it is possible that these alliances may work without addressing fundamental issues. To completely ignore atrocities and sweep them under the carpet is not wise. Accountability is extremely important. Victims do desire justice and if this is ignored, some will retaliate.

I believe it is acceptable to criticise Muslim groups that commit acts that are against Islam.

[جوري]

Salaam,

I'll make myself clear. It is not impossible for groups that opposed each other to unite. However, it is possible that these alliances may work without addressing fundamental issues. To completely ignore atrocities and sweep them under the carpet is not wise. Accountability is extremely important. Victims do desire justice and if this is ignored, some will retaliate.

I believe it is acceptable to criticise Muslim groups that commit acts that are against Islam.

That is to say there's accuracy at all in said acts and then remains the question of what led to the 'unquestionable acts' to be committed. They besiege a village and enable its people only one means of livelihood (say fishing) then act so surprised when the villagers come home with fish?..
Yes that's how absurd this whole thing is.

:w:

[Roasted Cashew]

only one means of livelihood

Killing innocent people, destroying infrastructure with no regards to human presence there, abducting civilians and aid workers and subsequently beheading them, etc in order to pressurize the enemy is not a livelihood true Muslims should subscribe to.

Added:

Target only the invading military and the accompanying mercenaries. Not everyone who looks western. Not your own population which listens to music or doesn't want to keep a beard. Maybe they are on the wrong. But so were so many Sahabas until Allah guided them. There is no punishment in this world prescribed in the Qur'an for those who listen to music or don't want to keep a beard. Stop threatening them or marking them as westernized and blowing them up too.

[جوري]

Killing innocent people, destroying infrastructure with no regards to human presence there, abducting civilians and aid workers and subsequently beheading them, etc in order to pressurize the enemy is not a livelihood true Muslims should subscribe to.

Added:

Target only the invading military and the accompanying mercenaries. Not everyone who looks western. Not your own population which listens to music or doesn't want to keep a beard. Maybe they are on the wrong. But so were so many Sahabas until Allah guided them. There is no punishment in this world prescribed in the Qur'an for those who listen to music or don't want to keep a beard. Stop threatening them or marking them as westernized and blowing them up too.

This is empty rhetoric concocted by westerners, perpetuated by them endorsed by them on all level and bought by the simple minded who view themselves as 'civilized modernists'

Ok, fair enough.. let's paint out western interests in the regions and all the regions as they see them an extension of their imperialists grip on the world which is becoming polarized between what they perceive to be them (good) and china (evil) we're merely play things in the middle as they don't see a real threat past an ideological one which they perceive to have under control and it is apparent that, it is indeed the case given our sheer number and the state we're currently in!

Let's start out with Vietnam since there were no bearded hideous oppressive men to beat on the women for our good friends to act all heroic & save the day, no OBL's no 911 no so-called 'weapons of mass destruction'
France was losing in the region, they were fast becoming POW. America afraid of course the region would go to China over western imperialism they move in to inherit France so to speak-- they used herbicides and defoliants, agent orange they spray entire rivers killing plants, wildlife, fish etc. Killing how many people..well collateral damage after all and as always & sweep it under the rug. This is a mere example of numerous similar acts, just look it in every country there's always something which they're behind like the bay of pigs. People their people specifically if they're not touched by the suffering then there is no harm, the others from their view are all savages!

To shed light on our part in their game--Iraq the second place in the region after KSA producing oil, KSA is already in their pockets, Afghanistan, well Afghanistan of course has that large gas pipeline running throughout. Control both things, China their largest threat will have to get their resources either through the U.S directly and the U.S can of course ration what they get or China can get it through Iran and there's not much room there for China to be a contender.
All the people vilified, killed in the process again it is a privilege and anything to perpetuate their agenda is all acceptable forms of warfare. They can always throw in a black guy like Collin Powell to speak of the WMD and why would he be a sellout to those white imperialists and they play that game of unity and religion is evil well. Just have a look at our resident trolls be they Atheists or Christians.. one against 'tribalism and the other of let's all join hands and clap while injecting venom every which way'

The U.S uses a shuttle to fly over Iran, Syria etc to check out the region all our data is in their pockets-- they also use use satellites to even checkout the wheat production in the region and they play that game of wheat really well.. we're far from being at par with them and it is because we've morons arguing over trifles.

During the days of the prophet even though they were less in numbers but at least at par equipment wise, they had roman type weaponry from the gulf of Aqba (ilaf) modern day Jordan as it was under Roman rule the equivalent of modern day tanks on wheels and leathered and that was used in the Thaqif siege and of course they had faith.. when they had someone they suspected of fitnah they adhered to the law of Allah swt:

[][][183513673]
Al-Hujurat (The Dwellings)[49:6] [RECITE]
[top] [next match]



Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo in jaakum fasiqun binabain fatabayyanoo an tuseeboo qawman bijahalatin fatusbihoo AAala ma faAAaltum nadimeena
49:6 O ye who believe! If a wicked person comes to you with any news, ascertain the truth, lest ye harm people unwittingly, and afterwards become full of repentance for what ye have done.




They worked as one unit.. They didn't take the news of their affairs from their enemy...
So think long and hard before you bring idiotic news on here nit picking with your two kaffir buddies on the ills of Muslims. What are you doing to help, for even if they are all the crap you suggest what are you doing to make it better? *****ing to us about it?

[GuestFellow]

That is to say there's accuracy at all in said acts and then remains the question of what led to the 'unquestionable acts' to be committed.

:w:

:wa:

Well we are talking about uniting two groups. If both groups committed atrocities against each other, then there will be victims. For example, let's say there are two Muslim groups (A and B) involved in a conflict due to external factors. A group of Muslim soldiers from group A rape a Muslim women in front of her husband and then kill the husband (based on true events). The Muslim women here is the victim. From her perspective, she won't care about what has lead group A to commit this act. She has been raped and requires justice. If this is ignored, then the following will occur:

1. No justice for the victim. The victim will experience anger and sadness. This will reduce the chances of the two groups uniting.
2. No accountability and deterrence. Those that committed the acts will probably commit them again. They won't fear retribution. More of these acts will be committed, thus making it unlikely for the two groups to unite.

Yes, there are other groups which may have played an indirect role in creating an atmosphere where these two groups commit violence towards each other. I'm not saying this is to be ignored either.

[جوري]

:wa:

Well we are talking about uniting two groups. If both groups committed atrocities against each other, then there will be victims. For example, let's say there are two Muslim groups (A and B) involved in a conflict due to external factors. A group of Muslim soldiers from group A rape a Muslim women in front of her husband and then kill the husband (based on true events). The Muslim women here is the victim. From her perspective, she won't care about what has lead group A to commit this act. She has been raped and requires justice. If this is ignored, then the following will occur:

1. No justice for the victim. The victim will experience anger and sadness. This will reduce the chances of the two groups uniting.
2. No accountability and deterrence. Those that committed the acts will probably commit them again. They won't fear retribution. More of these acts will be committed, thus making it unlikely for the two groups to unite.

Indeed. I have a problem however with hypotheticals, media propaganda and the ‘militarization’ of media warfare.
Rapes happen all the time, they happen in the west, acid attacks happen all the time they happen in the west. It is a crime on an individual level I don't see what it has t do with Islam? Is it again because the media stringed the word Muslim to the end of the accusation? I have already stated that one sided news doesn't suit me. I don't know what you personally consider accurate? If I were living on some remote resort with my family and no way for me to put out the news of my remote resort and some greedy outsider thinks it is a hotspot and has interest in my remote little island before somebody else gets a grip or before I unite with the little resorts in my area and have a nice economy, nice unity and defend that from their grip so they put out news that we're an incestuous family, my family is destroying the vineyards, my family isn't enabling forced proselytization, then regroup and come in with their forces doing all sorts of heinous things for which somehow nice PR sweeps it under the rug from people's memory, and yet at the end of the day me & my family are the bad guy?
I really can't make it any simpler than that. I have already painted above their interest in the region, their interests in other regions who are made guilty of other sets of crimes that have nothing to do with beards and Allah Akbar. I can't figure out what is so hard to understand here? I can't understand why some surmise based on evidence from the enemy and yet forgo the clear picture as it is without colorful paint.

Hasbona Allah wa'nima Alwakeel is all I can say!

[Abz2000]

with regard to looking into and magnifying relatively insignificant faults of Muslims, when the kuffar have done the same and worse, and continue to do so.
i would liken it to spending all your time looking at how a sheep resisted a wolf, and ignoring the fact that the wolf attacked the sheep in the first place,
and is still attacking your sheep.
or asking the raped how they scratched the rapist.
it sounds stupid, and shows the treacherous bias of the one who would spend his time in such frivolities.

[Roasted Cashew]

asking the raped how they scratched the rapist.

I am not sure whether you and لميس purposely ignore or really lack sense of comprehension to actually understand what is being said here. We are all with the rape victim. To hell with scratching, we are condoning even the death of the rapist by the victim. What I am trying to say is do not transgress in your fight for justice. In order to kill the rapist, do not kill innocent people or anyone who happens to belong to the same race group as him. Do not abduct and behead those who come from the rapists country to help the likes of you victims just because they are from his country..Do not kill your own people who do not have beards and listen to musics just like the rapist did. That's all. Is that too much for both of you to comprehend?? I also acknowledged that not all victims are like this. Some are pure in their fight. Only a certain faction is. Still, both of you are arguing for no reason whatsoever on totally absurd pretext.

[جوري]

I am not sure whether you and لميس purposely ignore or really lack sense of comprehension to actually understand what is being said here. We are all with the rape victim. To hell with scratching, we are condoning even the death of the rapist by the victim. What I am trying to say is do not transgress in your fight for justice. In order to kill the rapist, do not kill innocent people or anyone who happens to belong to the same race group as him. Do not abduct and behead those who come from the rapists country to help the likes of you victims just because they are from his country..Do not kill your own people who do not have beards and listen to musics just like the rapist did. That's all. Is that too much for both of you to comprehend?? I also acknowledged that not all victims are like this. Some are pure in their fight. Only a certain faction is. Still, both of you are arguing for no reason whatsoever on totally absurd pretext.

In fact the first couple of lines are an adequate assessment of yourself. And whenever you feel you're losing ground, you come back and hammer in useless points of more of the same to save face or I don't know your purpose cause discord sow the seeds of hate & doubt whilst ingratiating yourself to whomever you can. Whatever it is you're doing here, it isn't working. Lastly I don't know how many times we must repeat that what you point out is worthless, get us the news from the local Taliban tribune from their mouth and interviews with their alleged victims like the girl with the 'experience' whose experience apparently fizzles when she's asked to back it up with other than lip service. That's is if you want what you write to have some semblance of credence!
I don't need third party information telling me how it is.
And again start by reforming yourself I don't see you helping and you're not quizzical of purpose so what the hell are you doing exactly? Every other day you bring news from the mouths of Zionists? Yes we're aware of what they're putting out there, congratulations being their mouthpiece on the board!

[Insaanah]

:sl:

btw, regarding the feigned horror - iraq, this is from a book i picked up a few years back,
it's called: iraq - the rise of the resistance:
Over the coming weeks thousands of Iraqis, from teachers to former soldiers, port workers and public servants, marched for jobs, the reopening of ministries and the payment of salaries. On 28 April a small crowd gathered near a school in Fallujah housing US troops. Fallujah did not witness the looting and chaos that gripped many parts of the country in the wake of the invasion. Tribal sheikhs and religious leaders ensured security in the city. The crowd insisted the US troops were not needed and demanded that soldiers handed the school back to the city authorities and left town. The troops opened fire, killing 13. The killings in Fallujah would propel the Sunni city into the heart of a new national movement......
....Tragic things were already happening as Franks was meeting his commanders: looting, burning of the major administration centres, the stripping of Iraq’s already threadbare infrastructure. Hospitals, schools and universities were emptied and set ablaze. For most Iraqis, the coalition troops brought with them chaos and anarchy.

This reminded me of this book written by a journalist, about the invasion and occupation (or "liberation" as some would have you believe) of Iraq. It's very aptly called, "Nobody told us we were defeated".

What makes Rory McCarthy's one of a rare breed is that it catches the voices of the ordinary people of Iraq, the people George W Bush and Tony Blair "liberated" and who have since seen their society disintegrate

A man who suffered under Saddam:

How does such a man react when he sees Saddam being tried? "I could not bear it when I saw him in such a miserable condition," says Hassan. "He should not be humiliated. After all, he was our president. He was our father."

It is people like Hassan who so confuse the neo-cons. "Why can't they be grateful?" is the plaintive cry. What the dwindling number of apologists for the war fail to grasp is that, while many Iraqis may have hated Saddam, they also loathe the occupation.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-en...hy-415016.html

It is very rare for the truth to come out, the truth that won't suit the goverment's agenda, but it is out there, you have to actively look for it, and it's generally not found in the mainstream mass media, which is the government brainwashing tool, but among rare independent thinkers who find an outlet for the real voices of the people of the country.

[GuestFellow]

Indeed. I have a problem however with hypotheticals, media propaganda and the ‘militarization’ of media warfare.

Salaam,

This has taken place for many years. There was propaganda and militarization of the media during world war 2. In fact, there is a documentary which explores how the Pentagon worked with Hollywood to create movies to glorify America's wars.

Rapes happen all the time, they happen in the west, acid attacks happen all the time they happen in the west.

Agreed.

It is a crime on an individual level I don't see what it has t do with Islam?

Nothing.

Is it again because the media stringed the word Muslim to the end of the accusation?

Yes. However, some Muslims make it worse. I have met Muslims that blame women for being raped. So these Muslims are fuel for the mainstream media. Speaking from personal experience...

I don't know what you personally consider accurate?

What's true and what is not true. However, this is difficult. Speculation sometimes is required to actually find out what is true. People should not be afraid to admit that they are wrong. I have been wrong several times.

If I were living on some remote resort with my family and no way for me to put out the news of my remote resort and some greedy outsider thinks it is a hotspot and has interest in my remote little island before somebody else gets a grip or before I unite with the little resorts in my area and have a nice economy, nice unity and defend that from their grip so they put out news that we're an incestuous family, my family is destroying the vineyards, my family isn't enabling forced proselytization, then regroup and come in with their forces doing all sorts of heinous things for which somehow nice PR sweeps it under the rug from people's memory, and yet at the end of the day me & my family are the bad guy?

Bad things happen to people all the time. However, victims should not use this as an excuse to commit further atrocities. People should be allowed to defend themselves in a reasonable manner. Afghans have every right to defend themselves from the invaders. However, they must do so in accordance with Islamic teachings.



[QUOTE I can't figure out what is so hard to understand here?
[/QUOTE]

What gave you that impression?

[Insaanah]

:sl:

Well we are talking about uniting two groups. If both groups committed atrocities against each other, then there will be victims. For example, let's say there are two Muslim groups (A and B) involved in a conflict due to external factors. A group of Muslim soldiers from group A rape a Muslim women in front of her husband and then kill the husband (based on true events). The Muslim women here is the victim. From her perspective, she won't care about what has lead group A to commit this act. She has been raped and requires justice. If this is ignored, then the following will occur:

1. No justice for the victim. The victim will experience anger and sadness. This will reduce the chances of the two groups uniting.
2. No accountability and deterrence. Those that committed the acts will probably commit them again. They won't fear retribution. More of these acts will be committed, thus making it unlikely for the two groups to unite.

Yes, there are other groups which may have played an indirect role in creating an atmosphere where these two groups commit violence towards each other. I'm not saying this is to be ignored either.

Fine if this categorised Muslims as a whole, but it doesn't.

Overall, what your advocating is not practicable.

Why?

Non-Muslims and non-Muslims countries and forces can set aside their differences to unite against a common enemy, why can't Muslims? Why is it practical for non-Muslims, but not for Muslims? What is it that stops Muslims, when we are commanded to be a brotherhood, but the non-Muslims aren't?

[GuestFellow]

:sl:

Fine if this categorised Muslims as a whole, but it doesn't.

:wa:


It's an example of a conflict between two Muslim groups. A more realistic one is the Pakistan army committing atrocities against civilians of Bangladesh.

Why? Non-Muslims and non-Muslims countries and forces can set aside their differences to unite against a common enemy, why can't Muslims? Why is it practical for non-Muslims, but not for Muslims? What is it that stops Muslims, when we are commanded to be a brotherhood, but the non-Muslims aren't?

This is what you posted: Each views the other as an oppressor in some way. Both have a common enemy, who has invaded their land, bombed their land from above and from within the ground, and is also gaining control of natural resources etc. Should a group of Muslims sit and criticise the other and quantify the other's shortcomings, "mistakes, sins and evils", highlight the "bad-apples", before "lifting a finger" at the enemy (while the enemy does what it likes to their land and people in the meantime) OR, should that group, based on their common bond of faith, unite with the other against the common enemy and leave the fault-picking (which actually should be advising) til afterwards? Which takes precedence in this situation?

The reason why the two Muslim groups, which you introduced in your post, cannot unite because no one has been punished. Assuming both groups committed atrocities against each other, then the people responsible need to be corrected and punished. To sweep this under the carpet will not resolve the problem because the victims of these atrocities have not received justice. People, in general, will not unite with a group that has done terrible things to them, unless retribution has taken place.

EDIT:

I didn't read the last part of your post. Could not see it until I used the big font size. If your saying that Muslims should unite to get rid of a common enemy and then resolve their differences, then that's fine.

[Insaanah]

:sl:

Assuming both groups committed atrocities against each other

I didn't say atrocities. I said each views the other as an oppressor in some way. This could be one viewing the other as too "hardline" Muslims, or one viewing the other as siding with the west, one saying that they don't have enough freedom etc. Anything you do to the other that the other doesn't like can be viewed (or misconstrued) as an form of oppression by the one on the receiving end.

Edit: Just saw your edit.

[GuestFellow]

^ Salaam,

Apologies. Ignore the rest of my drivel. I should have read your post more carefully.

[Roasted Cashew]

get us the news from the local Taliban tribune

Well, your local Taliban tribune sucks at getting news to the outside world. So, we have to rely on other news agencies. Closing your eyes and stuffing your ears won't make the transgressions and atrocities committed by those who rally under the banner of Islamic resistance go away nor is it the right thing to do. As you yourself have quoted a hadith previously, the least I can do is condemn them. That is exactly what I am doing. If you think there are no atrocities being committed then in your own words you are: "foolish and immature" and "not worth my time". Peace.

[جوري]

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-en...hy-415016.html

It is very rare for the truth to come out, the truth that won't suit the goverment's agenda,

Even that is a very well calculated trick, drop a few truths in there so that when the time comes to drop a bombshell no one would question, I mean why now? Like OnTV of Egypt which is owned by Suaris a Zionist endorsed pig with billions.. Seemed fair and objective enough come check them now assailing the brotherhood, which led to one honest reporter to resign if she'll actually survive that if the CIA endorsed other pig Shafeeq comes to power and he's already speaking like someone with rigged elections.

[جوري]

Well, your local Taliban tribune sucks at getting news to the outside world.

Concocted corporate media news is a good way to fill idle time and fill in the blanks for what can't be accomplished by drones as I understand it.. yes thanks for taking up web space to perpetuate junk.

[Jedi_Mindset]

Roasted cashew i say you one thing, i sometimes visit the site of the islamic emirates of Afghanistan with backed proof and none what you said is true. The western and puppet media are liars regarding the attacks of the mujahideen(Lying about civilian deaths, while no civilian died but only enemy soldiers and their helpers) so they can blame the mujahideen for the attacks and killings. This is called divide and conquer. A old trick played by britain now done by israel, United states and britain together. The CIA place car bombs near a masjid and the western media will do the rest.

The western media hide the losses of their soldiers in afghanistan yet the American generals admit they're losing lol.


Regarding girl schools, this is a blatant lie from the pro-western feminist media and secular afghanis, the spokesman and scholars have spoken about this, and women where permitted to go to school, the taliban are not behind the destroying of girl schools. The taliban permitted for them to go to qu'ran schools and other schools. In some regions it was best for them to stay home yes due to insecurity caused by enemy forces (Communist afghans)

[Abz2000]

cashew, ur wisted logic doesn't make any sense,
to villify the one who is wronged, for something relatively miniscule to what the aggressors are doing just doesn't wash with me, especially when you know that their cause is true while that of the aggressors is false.

they can neither c ur posts, nor can they rectify any mistakes they make.
the only thing you seem to enjoy doing is putting out propaganda against the resisters of aggression.

and pls don't try to pretend that it's just to understand, because there are many ways of going about it,
when i visit any forums which actively support struggle against illegal aggression,
i commend them on their righteous efforts and emphasise the need to have tarbiyyah, and to continue learning about rules of engagement.
i don't however go and vilify them while ignoring the actions of the ones who actually seek to gain from bloodshed, and cause turmoil when it's totally un-necessary, even to the extent of staging false flag operations in order to justify their despicable aggression.

[Roasted Cashew]

Lying about civilian deaths, while no civilian died

Four killed in Afghan suicide attack, Taliban claim responsibility
http://english.alarabiya.net/article...10/213306.html
and I quote: "...Two police and two civilians were killed ..."

I can give you many such examples with even higher number of civilian casualties. What wrong did these civilians do? Suicide bombings have caused more deaths and injured more civilians than the enemy. Clearly, we as Muslims should condemn this method of warfare just like we condemn drone strikes since they are more harmful to innocent people.

while ignoring the actions of the ones who actually seek to gain from bloodshed, and cause turmoil when it's totally un-necessary, even to the extent of staging false flag operations in order to justify their despicable aggression.

Enough of you over here address the wrongs of the enemy. Very less of you do what I do. I am not ignoring their faults. Their faults are well highlighted over here but not so our own faults. It's just that.

[Abz2000]

Suicide bombings have caused more deaths and injured more civilians than the enemy.

who on earth told you that?

ur trying to tell me that suicide bombers have killed over a million people in iraq?

and that the lamestream media tell you the truth when they tell you every act was that of "alqaeda"?

i have documented proofs showing where they were asked about dead people and said "alqaeda" on record, until it was exposed that they themselves did it, then they said it was a "controlled blast" which was meant to take out "alqaeda" militants, then when asked why it was in a local soccer game where only kids who were playing died, they said it was a "regretted mistake".

that's for the documented ones, what of the thousands that are never ever reported,
hell they even staged 9/11 in front of the whole planet and told us it was Osama.

they even got caught with their pants down when they organised the first bombing of the world trade center



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7n76g...eature=related

[Roasted Cashew]

ur trying to tell me that suicide bombers have killed over a million people in iraq?

What I said was that suicide bombings have killed and injured more civilians than they have killed and injured the enemy..is it clearer now?

[جوري]

i have documented proofs showing where they were asked about dead people and said "alqaeda" on record

Do you remember this by Robert Fisk:

In Syria, the world appears through a glass, darkly. As dark as the smoked windows of the car which takes me to a building on the western side of Damascus where a man I have known for 15 years - we shall call him a "security source", which is the name given by American correspondents to their own powerful intelligence officers - waits with his own ferocious narrative of disaster in Iraq and dangers in the Middle East.
His is a fearful portrait of an America trapped in the bloody sands of Iraq, desperately trying to provoke a civil war around Baghdad in order to reduce its own military casualties. It is a scenario in which Saddam Hussein remains Washington's best friend, in which Syria has struck at the Iraqi insurgents with a ruthlessness that the United States wilfully ignores. And in which Syria's Interior Minister, found shot dead in his office last year, committed suicide because of his own mental instability.
The Americans, my interlocutor suspected, are trying to provoke an Iraqi civil war so that Sunni Muslim insurgents spend their energies killing their Shia co-religionists rather than soldiers of the Western occupation forces. "I swear to you that we have very good information," my source says, finger stabbing the air in front of him. "One young Iraqi man told us that he was trained by the Americans as a policeman in Baghdad and he spent 70 per cent of his time learning to drive and 30 per cent in weapons training. They said to him: 'Come back in a week.' When he went back, they gave him a mobile phone and told him to drive into a crowded area near a mosque and phone them. He waited in the car but couldn't get the right mobile signal. So he got out of the car to where he received a better signal. Then his car blew up."
Impossible, I think to myself. But then I remember how many times Iraqis in Baghdad have told me similar stories. These reports are believed even if they seem unbelievable. And I know where much of the Syrian information is gleaned: from the tens of thousands of Shia Muslim pilgrims who come to pray at the Sayda Zeinab mosque outside Damascus. These men and women come from the slums of Baghdad, Hillah and Iskandariyah as well as the cities of Najaf and Basra. Sunnis from Fallujah and Ramadi also visit Damascus to see friends and relatives and talk freely of American tactics in Iraq.
"There was another man, trained by the Americans for the police. He too was given a mobile and told to drive to an area where there was a crowd - maybe a protest - and to call them and tell them what was happening. Again, his new mobile was not working. So he went to a landline phone and called the Americans and told them: 'Here I am, in the place you sent me and I can tell you what's happening here.' And at that moment there was a big explosion in his car."
Just who these "Americans" might be, my source did not say. In the anarchic and panic-stricken world of Iraq, there are many US groups - including countless outfits supposedly working for the American military and the new Western-backed Iraqi Interior Ministry - who operate outside any laws or rules. No one can account for the murder of 191 university teachers and professors since the 2003 invasion - nor the fact that more than 50 former Iraqi fighter-bomber pilots who attacked Iran in the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war have been assassinated in their home towns in Iraq in the past three years.
Amid this chaos, a colleague of my source asked me, how could Syria be expected to lessen the number of attacks on Americans inside Iraq? "It was never safe, our border," he said. "During Saddam's time, criminals and Saddam's terrorists crossed our borders to attack our government. I built a wall of earth and sand along the border at that time. But three car bombs from Saddam's agents exploded in Damascus and Tartous- I was the one who captured the criminals responsible. But we couldn't stop them."
Now, he told me, the rampart running for hundreds of miles along Syria's border with Iraq had been heightened. "I have had barbed wire put on top and up to now we have caught 1,500 non-Syrian and non-Iraqi Arabs trying to cross and we have stopped 2,700 Syrians from crossing ... Our army is there - but the Iraqi army and the Americans are not there on the other side."
Behind these grave suspicions in Damascus lies the memory of Saddam's long friendship with the United States. "Our Hafez el-Assad [the former Syrian president who died in 2000] learnt that Saddam, in his early days, met with American officials 20 times in four weeks. This convinced Assad that, in his words, 'Saddam is with the Americans'. Saddam was the biggest helper of the Americans in the Middle East (when he attacked Iran in 1980) after the fall of the Shah. And he still is! After all, he brought the Americans to Iraq!"
So I turn to a story which is more distressing for my sources: the death by shooting of Brigadier General Ghazi Kenaan, former head of Syrian military intelligence in Lebanon - an awesomely powerful position - and Syrian Minister of Interior when his suicide was announced by the Damascus government last year.
Widespread rumours outside Syria suggested that Kenaan was suspected by UN investigators of involvement in the murder of the former Lebanese prime minister Rafik Hariri in a massive car bomb in Beirut last year - and that he had been "suicided" by Syrian government agents to prevent him telling the truth.
Not so, insisted my original interlocutor. "General Ghazi was a man who believed he could give orders and anything he wanted would happen. Something happened that he could not reconcile - something that made him realise he was not all-powerful. On the day of his death, he went to his office at the Interior Ministry and then he left and went home for half an hour. Then he came back with a pistol. He left a message for his wife in which he said goodbye to her and asked her to look after their children and he said that what he was going to do was 'for the good of Syria'. Then he shot himself in the mouth."
Of Hariri's assassination, Syrian officials like to recall his relationship with the former Iraqi interim prime minister Iyad Alawi - a self-confessed former agent for the CIA and MI6 - and an alleged $20bn arms deal between the Russians and Saudi Arabia in which they claim Hariri was involved.
Hariri's Lebanese supporters continue to dismiss the Syrian argument on the grounds that Syria had identified Hariri as the joint author with his friend, French President Jacques Chirac, of the UN Security Council resolution which demanded the retreat of the Syrians from Lebanese territory.
But if the Syrians are understandably obsessed with the American occupation of Iraq, their long hatred for Saddam - something which they shared with most Iraqis - is still intact. When I asked my first "security" source what would happen to the former Iraqi dictator, he replied, banging his fist into his hand: "He will be killed. He will be killed. He will be killed."

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion...aq-475889.html


It is a shame how unseasoned and unlearned so many of us are. That's what truly ails this ummah!

:w:

[Abz2000]

Every week or two there has been an atrocity story in the media. Soldiers cut off fingers. Or they shot children from a helicopter. Or they shot up a bunch of women and then dug the bullets out with knives to cover up the crime. Or they urinated on corpses or burned corpses or burned Korans. It is always something. And it is always lied about to the extent possible by the United States and NATO,
with NATO serving as protection from Congressional oversight.
A pattern has developed of the U.S. military passing the buck to NATO,
NATO denying everything,
NATO revising its lies as new evidence emerges,
and NATO finally admitting the crime,
with the blame going to a few rogue "bad apples."
But you cannot have a war without atrocities, and the atrocities are the least of it. The urination on corpses is not as serious a crime as the creation of the corpses in the first place.

The U.S. military lied about football star Pat Tillman's death to his family at his funeral, for purposes of propaganda, but what would have been unusual would have been telling the truth. Wars cannot exist without lies, and lying is the norm.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/PrintAr...rticleId=31073

[IslamicRevival]

suicide bombings have killed and injured more civilians than they have killed and injured the enemy.

Thats a bold statement to make, but whatever the statistics are in terms of suicide bombings (Which i believe are totally wrong and go against Islamic law), facts are Al Qaeda have done far less damage to civilian population then NATO. I understand your frustration with Al Qaeda but remember there are two sides to every story and for every crime NATO commits, there will be most definitely be a reaction!

_____________

I'm far from an Al Qaeda supporter but I recognize what they are fighting for, they're fighting for their country which is, and has been torn apart by satanic forces. I understand why they pick up arms and fight, but at the same time we must not hold them in such a high regard that we see through their faults. Al Qaeda have committed a lot of crimes, which I believe are against what Islam stand for but at the same time we must acknowledge their struggle.

On a personal level, I'm with my Brothers and Sisters of Humanity who are oppressed and those who are fighting oppression in accordance with Islamic law, wherever they may be and only Allah knows who Al Qaeda, Taliban and all these groups, fighting in the name of Islam truly are.

[Roasted Cashew]

but at the same time we must not hold them in such a high regard that we see through their faults. Al Qaeda have committed a lot of crimes, which I believe are against what Islam stand for but at the same time we must acknowledge their struggle.

Exactly what I have been saying all this while brother. But some brothers and sisters here just don't get it.

[Jedi_Mindset]

Four killed in Afghan suicide attack, Taliban claim responsibility
http://english.alarabiya.net/article...10/213306.html
and I quote: "...Two police and two civilians were killed ..."

I can give you many such examples with even higher number of civilian casualties. What wrong did these civilians do? Suicide bombings have caused more deaths and injured more civilians than the enemy. Clearly, we as Muslims should condemn this method of warfare just like we condemn drone strikes since they are more harmful to innocent people.



Enough of you over here address the wrongs of the enemy. Very less of you do what I do. I am not ignoring their faults. Their faults are well highlighted over here but not so our own faults. It's just that.

Doesn't convince me one bit, that news source is from Saudi occupied arabia. A western puppet, who just said that israel and USA needs to strenghten their war against ''terrorism'' aka islam.

Dajjal has decieved you my brother, go read Surah Al kahf every friday.

And here to know about the divide and conquer tactic:



The same scenario is happening in syria right now, Saudi/israel/USA arming opposition and army defectors and russia/china arming the syrian regime. This how you get divide and conquer and this is where you see dajjal playing so the west has reason to invade.

Their plan is to let the muslims fight each other, weaken the surrounding governments and create ''threats'' for israel and the west to launch their attacks.

They did the same in iraq setting up sunnis and shiites against each other, as justification so the US could stay and US army wouldn't be targeted much.

The revolutions in syria, libya weren't created by the west but the west went getting involved so this would lead in all-out civil war. Look at Libya today: Better or worse?

True revolution are happening in egypt, yemen and tunisia, people willing to stand up.

No government is good today. No one. All controlled. There is reality behind every appearance.

:sl:

[Aprender]

Exactly what I have been saying all this while brother. But some brothers and sisters here just don't get it.

They understood what you were saying and I don't think anyone here disagrees that groups like Al Qaeda and the Taliban might do things that go against Islam in their struggle.

What they are saying is that the way you are going about that criticism is already on a shaky foundation that can't be fully trusted. You use the news media of the country that is directly involved in a conflict with the "enemy". You use news stories from the website of a religion that advocates against Islam all together as this barbaric, backwards and evil religion as I was taught when I was going to church. Of course they're going to report on the alleged faults of the Taliban and Al Qaeda. They're in a war with them after all. They have to do what they can to reassure the world that these are bad men and their presence in the region is justified.

What others are asking you to do is understand that and not take everything that they report as 100% fact just because they said so.

Research Radio Free Liberty when you get the chance. Particularly its involvement during the Cold War in Europe.

[GuestFellow]

^ Salaam,

Yes, I agree that the source cannot be trusted. Then again, it is difficult to find reliable sources. A good way to overcome this obstacle is to obtain information from different sources and compare them.

[Aprender]

^ Salaam,

Yes, I agree that the source cannot be trusted. Then again, it is difficult to find reliable sources. A good way to overcome this obstacle is to obtain information from different sources and compare them.

:wa:

Yep. And that brings this thread back full circle when the OP was asked to find another source with the information. He wasn't able to and this is why the thread ended up derailed in this way.

[Jedi_Mindset]

:wa:

Yep. And that brings this thread back full circle when the OP was asked to find another source with the information. He wasn't able to and this is why the thread ended up derailed in this way.

Much better is to talk with locals, no news media and sources :D
Internet is a great thing for this. I came to know that around 80% of the afghan population support the taliban and other resistance groups in afghanistan against the Invaders. Al-quaida doesn't even exist at all. Its a joke, created by the CIA to create a ''boogeyman'' for their justification to launch wars against islam. Even much soldiers of the afghan army support the mujahideen, hence they turn their weapon against the NATO occupiers. lol

U see America: Allah is the best of planners not you. Your arrogance is your own downfall just like the west, Russia, china and israel Insha'Allah

[Roasted Cashew]

Internet is a great thing for this. I came to know that around 80% of the afghan

how many percentage of the Afghan population is on the internet?

Much better is to talk with locals, no news media and sources

And how do you propose I talk to Afghan locals from miles away?

[جوري]

how many percentage of the Afghan population is on the internet?



And how do you propose I talk to Afghan locals from miles away?

If you're asking the first question in rhetoric & don't have an answer for the second Q then why do you presuppose that you can speak on their behalf and from third party sources ergo the people who actually have war declared upon them. How much credibility do you think you've at this stage of the game?

best,

[Roasted Cashew]

If you're asking the first question in rhetoric & don't have an answer for the second Q then why do you presuppose that you can speak on their behalf and from third party sources, from the people who actually have war declared upon them. How much credibility do you think you've at this stage of the game?

The journalists didn't declare a war on them. Your mentality is still of medieval times. There are honest journalists working out there who are trying to get the real story out. To paint all of them into one "biased" group will be wrong. You quoted Robert Frisk of independent.co.uk in one your replies. Isn't he also working for a news medium of the very "people who have declared war on the Afghans"??

[جوري]

The journalists didn't declare a war on them.

The article you quoted isn't a first hands account of the alleged victims nor have said reporters ventured into taliban land heck even the military dare not venture there save for unmanned drones.. In your milatonic mind if it is written with some authority it makes it believable and thus it has to be true?

Your mentality is still of medieval times.

In what way? I'd like to be as progressive as the next person if you'd some semblance of common sense!

There are honest journalists working out there who are trying to get the real story out.

See my first comment and prove it!

To paint all of them into one "biased" group will be wrong.

I haven't painted them in any such way, they're people who are paid to do their job find out who pays them and to dispense what kind of news and you'll have an answer as to why this sort of crap is rampant, as to why you're so ensnared and why you're so indolent and persistent with a topic that shouldn't otherwise have a second glance is a conundrum- however it is a chance subvert your efforts!

You quoted Robert Frisk of independent.co.uk in one your replies. Isn't he also working for a news medium of the very "people who have declared war on the Afghans"?

He is working for the independent not corporate media, however, see my reply to sis Insaanah here:

http://www.islamicboard.com/world-af...ml#post1522946

[Roasted Cashew]

He is working for the independent not corporate media

Can you list me some of the "corporate media" outlets here that you loath the most and can you list down some media outlets like the independent which do not fall under the "corporate media" tag.

[جوري]

Can you list me some of the "corporate media" outlets here that you loath the most and can you list down some media outlets like the independent which do not fall under the "corporate media" tag.

It isn't incumbent upon me to do your homework for you- you've a head on your shoulder then use it!
There's nothing further on the subject matter that I care to impart if you're done beating a dead horse!

best,

[Roasted Cashew]

It isn't incumbent upon me to do your homework for you- you've a head on your shoulder then use it!

My dear sis, I said corporate media that YOU loath the most..that isn't exactly my homework but a question to you. Also, what media outlets are there out there that YOU deem not as "corporate media". I didn't ask a general question but a well directed question to you.

[جوري]

My dear sis, I said corporate media that YOU loath the most..that isn't exactly my homework but a question to you. Also, what media outlets are there out there that YOU deem not as "corporate media". I didn't ask a general question but a well directed question to you.

Do your research on Murdoch and others in his footsteps. As to where I get my news, that's my business isn't it?

[IslamicRevival]

Exactly what I have been saying all this while brother. But some brothers and sisters here just don't get it.

No offence bro but i don't think you get it either. You constantly criticize Al Qaeda for their crimes, and rightly so but completely ignore the bigger picture.

Remember its America/NATO who are bombing Muslim lands, they are the ones who arrogantly deploy killer drones over the skies of Pakistan, they are the ones who hire hit men (Blackwater) to carry out false flag attacks and target/kill anyone they deem a 'threat'. Ultimately, NATO are the aggressors and the ones who are fighting back are nothing less then victims, they are the resistance who are protecting, or trying to protect their nation (Men women and children) and you would be a fool to think otherwise.

The way you put your views across is no different to what I hear on majority of News channels these days, its the language of the mass media and i think you've been reeled in, 'hook line and sinker' to their way of thinking.

[glo]

Do we have any people from Afghanistan here in the forum?

[GuestFellow]

Salaam to all,

how many percentage of the Afghan population is on the internet?

And how do you propose I talk to Afghan locals from miles away?

Very good questions.

No offence bro but i don't think you get it either. You constantly criticize Al Qaeda for their crimes, and rightly so but completely ignore the bigger picture.

Remember its America/NATO who are bombing Muslim lands, they are the ones who arrogantly deploy killer drones over the skies of Pakistan, they are the ones who hire hit men (Blackwater) to carry out false flag attacks and target/kill anyone they deem a 'threat'. Ultimately, NATO are the aggressors and the ones who are fighting back are nothing less then victims, they are the resistance who are protecting, or trying to protect their nation (Men women and children) and you would be a fool to think otherwise.

The way you put your views across is no different to what I hear on majority of News channels these days, its the language of the mass media and i think you've been reeled in, 'hook line and sinker' to their way of thinking.

To be fair, from reading his past posts, he acknowledges that it was the US and some other countries that have created so many problems for Muslim countries. However, at the same time, he's not shy to criticise Muslims that commit atrocities.

I do think he needs to provide more sources for his articles. That will probably give him a good platform to support his views.

Now speaking of sources, there are people that are very quick to accept information from the corporate media when it suits/fits their line of thinking. However, as soon as it the corporate media presents a view that is contrary to their thinking, they will reject it without question. People with this type of mentality are clearly not objective.

[glo]

Now speaking of sources, there are people that are very quick to accept information from the corporate media when it suits/fits their line of thinking. However, as soon as it the corporate media presents a view that is contrary to their thinking, they will reject it without question. People with this type of mentality are clearly not objective.

Yes, I think sometimes we all hear (and believe) what we want to hear (and believe).

[جوري]

he acknowledges that it was the US and some other countries

Indeed.. Kaffirs as well acknowledge, yet they persist in their wars and persist in their drones and persist in their hatred..begs the question of is it enough to 'acknowledge' or even apologize which they don't do in favor of excuses like PTSD and mortgage payments.. I mean come on.. You acknowledge this but persistently criticize that? one doesn't expect people to believe or understand or relate but at least have some semblance of fairness for said articles to have any weightiness.
I can write an infinite number of dam*ing article about some remote region of Mozambique and I doubt the locals would do much to contest it given their immediate priorities.
I really wish we'd let this topic die in all its forms and those yet to be concocted!

:w:

[GuestFellow]

^ Salaam,

I want this topic to continue. I've learnt so much from being exposed to different views.

[Roasted Cashew]

No offence bro

none taken.

You constantly criticize Al Qaeda for their crimes, and rightly so but completely ignore the bigger picture.

glad you agree with me on a certain degree. Just remember, I criticize not only Al-Qaeda but everyone who transgresses under the banner of Islamic resistance.

Remember its America/NATO who are bombing Muslim lands, they are the ones who arrogantly deploy killer drones over the skies of Pakistan, they are the ones who hire hit men (Blackwater) to carry out false flag attacks and target/kill anyone they deem a 'threat'. Ultimately, NATO are the aggressors and the ones who are fighting back are nothing less then victims

Agree to everything you said up there.

they are the resistance who are protecting, or trying to protect their nation (Men women and children) and you would be a fool to think otherwise.

Indeed I would be a fool to call the pure and rightful resistance other than what it is. I only criticized those who transgressed in their battle for justice. That's all.