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truthseeker63
06-05-2012, 12:17 AM
What do you think of Non Muslims/Non Arabs/Non Palestinians who support the Palestinian cause ? In my view it is no different and or like Non Black People and or White People who were against Apartheid South Africa or supported Black Causes in the United States of America or Non Jews or Gentiles who were against Nazi Germany or Non Slavs who were against the Soviet Union Humans can show compassion for other oppressed Peoples. Then again many Jews think Anti Zionism by both Muslims and by Non Muslims is Anti Semitism or Anti Jewish.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Zionism
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glo
06-05-2012, 05:43 AM
I think it is exciting when people break those moulds and take action on what they believe is right or wrong - regardless of where they are from.

Kind of challenging for those who like to think along the lines of 'all Muslims are like X' or 'all Americans think Y' or 'all Jews do Z' ... ;D
And that's a good thing! People need to have their own little 'box thinking' challenged.

There are some wonderful people from all religions, worlds views and nations fighting for causes such as Palestine. From young daring activists to old ladies knitting blankets!
And the more people we can get to stand up for causes such as this, the harder it will be for people to hang on to their old stereotypes! :statisfie
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Pygoscelis
06-06-2012, 04:23 PM
Originally Posted by truthseeker63
What do you think of Non Muslims/Non Arabs/Non Palestinians who support the Palestinian cause ? In my view it is no different and or like Non Black People and or White People who were against Apartheid South Africa or supported Black Causes in the United States of America or Non Jews or Gentiles who were against Nazi Germany or Non Slavs who were against the Soviet Union Humans can show compassion for other oppressed Peoples. Then again many Jews think Anti Zionism by both Muslims and by Non Muslims is Anti Semitism or Anti Jewish.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Zionism
I'd expect muslims and even Palestinian ones to feel compassion for innocent Israeli children blown up by suicide bombers as well. It'd genuinely frighten me if you didn't feel such compassion. Same with Israelis or western people who don't feel compassion for palestinians being opressed - that scares me. Why wouldn't we support Palestinians when they are oppressed? They are fellow human beings. That is really all there is to it. We need not be caught up in tribalism.
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glo
06-06-2012, 07:28 PM
Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
They are fellow human beings. That is really all there is to it. We need not be caught up in tribalism.
Well said, Pygo!
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sister herb
06-07-2012, 01:57 PM
Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
I'd expect muslims and even Palestinian ones to feel compassion for innocent Israeli children blown up by suicide bombers as well. It'd genuinely frighten me if you didn't feel such compassion. Same with Israelis or western people who don't feel compassion for palestinians being opressed - that scares me. Why wouldn't we support Palestinians when they are oppressed? They are fellow human beings. That is really all there is to it. We need not be caught up in tribalism.
Albert Einstein: The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.
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Abz2000
06-07-2012, 02:24 PM
the Prophet pbuh was a member of hilf al fudul (the alliance of justice), a group which was established before prophethood due to a foreigner coming and complaining about a leader of Makkah having taken his merchandise with agreement to pay, and was later refusing to pay on account of his strength in the tribe and the other's weakness in the region.
some influential people with a sense of justice got together and formed a team willing to fight if necessary for the rights of the oppressed, among these influential and respected people was the Prophet pbuh
and they got the foreigner his money back.

long afterwards, with the cemented establishment of Islam, it was still a very powerful organization which even governors feared:
Husayn ibn Ali once threatened the Medinan governor, who Hussayn believed gave an unjust decision, that he would take the case to the members of Hilf al-Fudul, at this the governor bowed.

http://www.questionsonislam.com/arti...-hilf-al-fudul


Allah's Messenger (pbuh) said:
The prayer of the oppressed is answered, even if he is a sinner as his sinning is only against his own soul,'
Saheehul-Jam'i, no. 3377.

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Scimitar
06-07-2012, 02:36 PM
So I guess you guys haven't heard of the Neturei karta organisation?

Originally Posted by [URL]http://www.nkusa.org/AboutUs/index.cfm[/URL]
WHAT IS THE NETUREI KARTA?

Neturei Karta opposed the establishment of and retain all opposition to the existence of the so-called "State of Israel"!
Neturei-Karta is the Aramaic term for "Guardians of the City. The name Neturei-Karta originates from an incident in which R. Yehudah Ha-Nassi (Rabbi Judah the Prince) sent R. Hiyya and R. Ashi on a pastoral tour of inspection. In one town they asked to see the "guardians of the city" and the city guard was paraded before them. They said that these were not the guardians of the city but its destroyers, which prompted the citizens to ask who, then, could be considered the guardians. The rabbis answered, "The scribes and the scholars," referring them to Tehillim (Psalms) Chap. 127. (Jerusalem Talmud, Tractate Hagiga. 76c).

The name was given to a group of Orthodox Jews in Jerusalem who refused (and still refuse) to recognize the existence or authority of the so-called "State of Israel" and made (and still make) a point of publicly demonstrating their position, the position of the Torah and authentic unadulterated Judaism.
The group was founded in Jerusalem, Palestine in 1938, splitting off from Agudas Yisroel. Agudas Yisroel was established in 1912 for the purpose of fighting Zionism. Gradually lured by money and honor they sold out to the "Golden-Calf" (see Exodus, XXXII) of Zionism. Those who wanted to maintain their faith and continue the struggle against Zionism, dissociated themselves from Agudas Yisroel and associated parties.

Over the years, a number of Neturei Karta activists and followers settled outside of Palestine. Some of the reasons that these individuals abandoned the country in which they and their families had lived for many generations (having lived there many years prior to the establishment of the illegitimate so-called "State of Israel") include; ideological refusal to live under the illegitimate heretical "Israeli" regime, their being exiled by the Zionist government for their insistence of remaining independent of the illegitimate heretical regime or them being unable to live a normal family life due to them and their families being persistently harassed, repeatedly incarcerated and many times even physically tortured by the Zionist police and agents. This dispersion resulted in the emergence of various Neturei Karta establishments on the broader international scene. These establishments include synagogues, educational institutions, publishing houses and organizations. The establishments in New York include three synagogues in Brooklyn (Boro Park and Williamsburg), three upstate, and organizations include the Friends of Jerusalem in NY, NY.
Neturei Karta is not - as is often alleged - a small sect or an extremist group of "ultra-orthodox" Jews. The Neturei Karta have added nothing to nor have they taken anything away from the written and oral law of the Torah as it is expressed in the Halacha and the Shulchan Aruch. The Neturei Karta are fighting the changes and inroads made by political Zionism during the past one-hundred odd years. Guided by the rabbis of our time and under the inspiring leadership of the late Reb Amram Blau, the Neturei Karta refuse to recognize the right of anyone to establish a "Jewish" state during the present period of exile.

There are those who wish to play down the Neturei Karta and its' Torah-true beliefs. This has been attempted many a time by stating that the Neturei Karta is a minority group and that compared to other Jewish groups the Neturei Karta aren't even noticeable in terms of number.

The name Neturei Karta is a name usually given to those people who regularly pray in the Neturei Karta synagogues (Torah Ve'Yirah Jerusalem, Torah U'Tefillah London, Torah U'Tefillah NY, Beis Yehudi Upstate NY, etc.), study in or send their children to educational institutions run by Neturei Karta, or actively participate in activities, assemblies or demonstrations called by the Neturei Karta. Although it is true that the number of families which could be classified as Neturei Karta members or activists per-se is relatively small (several thousand), the number of Orthodox Jews who believe in the anti-Zionist ideology which Neturei Karta is known for, number in the hundreds of thousands.


Neturei Karta oppose the so-called "State of Israel" not because it operates secularly, but because the entire concept of a sovereign Jewish state is contrary to Jewish Law.

All the great rabbis who in accordance with Jewish Law opposed Zionism at its inception did not do so merely due to consideration of the secular lifestyles of the then Zionist leaders or even for their opposition to Torah heritage and rejection of its values and practices, but due to the fact that the entire concept of a Jewish state is in direct conflict with a number of Judaism's fundamentals.

Condemnation of and segregation from anything connected to or affiliated with the so-called modern day "State of Israel" is based on the Talmud, the key fundamental doctrine of the Oral Tradition handed down by G-d to Moses on Mt. Sinai. The Talmud in Tractate Kesubos (p. 111a), teaches that Jews shall not use human force to bring about the establishment of a Jewish state before the coming of the universally accepted Moshiach (Messiah from the House of David). Furthermore it states that we are forbidden to rebel against the nations and that we should remain loyal citizens and we shall not attempt to leave the exile which G-d sent us into, ahead of time.


Jews are not allowed to dominate, kill, harm or demean another people and are not allowed to have anything to do with the Zionist enterprise, their political meddling and their wars.

Neturei Karta forbid any participation with the so-called "State of Israel" or any of its subsidiaries. Neturei Karta followers do not participate in "Israeli" elections nor do they accept any aid from "Bituach Le'Umi" (Social Security), and the educational institutions of the Neturei Karta reject any form of financial support from the so-called "Va'ad HaYeshivos" (equiv. to Department of Education).

The Zionist state employs a set of chief rabbis and uses religious parties to ornament their state with a clerical image. They study the Torah with commentaries altered to clothe the words with nationalistic nuances. Our rabbis have countless times proclaimed that it matters little which individuals or parties govern in the Zionist state because the very establishment and existence of the state itself is to be condemned and to be deplored.


The true Jews remain faithful to Jewish belief and are not contaminated with Zionism.
The true Jews are against dispossessing the Arabs of their land and homes. According to the Torah, the land should be returned to them.

Neturei Karta deplore the systematic uprooting of ancient Jewish communities by the Zionists, the shedding of Jewish and non-Jewish blood for the sake of Zionist sovereignty and the Neturei Karta favor a peaceful transition from the present Zionist rule to a non-Zionist entity.

According to Judaic Law the Torah has the last word. There is no such thing as a majority of Jews who happen to be Jewish by birth who can alter Torah Law in any way. In fact even the greatest rabbi or as Maimonides writes, "even the greatest prophet" [referring actually to an authentic prophet], has no right to distort or amend even one letter of the Torah.
Rabbi Blau stated shortly before his death that the acceptance by the United Nations of the Zionist state as a member state constituted a grave injustice to the Jewish people. Neturei Karta hope that this great error will be corrected at the earliest opportunity. The Neturei Karta regret that the Zionist state has usurped the holy name of Israel and that the Zionists so often pretend to speak in the name of the Jewish people and assume the right to act on our behalf. Only those rabbis who have not been affected or influenced by the poison of Zionism, can be considered the spiritual leaders of today's Jewry.


The world must know that the Zionists have illegitimately seized the name Israel and have no right to speak in the name of the Jewish people!


Scimi
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