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- Qatada -
06-17-2012, 10:55 AM
asalaamu alaykum warahmatullahi wabarakaatuh



You're a Sunni Muslim who tries to follow the way of the Salaf (earliest generation of Muslims) in the best way possible. You can ask any trustworthy 'Aalim a question and follow what he says. Once you become a student of knowledge, you need to study under 1 madhab, then master it until you become a master of that madhab, then you can study another madhab if you want to etc.

You are not arrogant, and you hope to be sincere to Allah and to cling onto Him, hoping for Him and His reward and fearing His punishment and a bad ending..

You are a slave of Allah, respecting His Messenger in the best of ways, and never making fun of the Messenger, nor any of the scholars in our past or present history.

You do not say anything evil about anyone unless you are forbidding an evil, and then you forbid it in the nicest of ways.


You are a slave of Allah, so seek closeness to Him.. that is your main aim in life, so make du'a to Him always - short term (i.e. Allah plz make my day happy) and long term duas (Allah give me a beautiful return to you). That way you know your duas are being answered. Then you will be happy with Allah, and He will be happy with you.



If you agree with this, then pass it onto other Muslims you know. It's about time the ummah united in something beneficial after all these years of worthless debates.
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Imaduddin
06-17-2012, 11:18 AM
I don't like how the title says Sunni Muslim. Why do we have to label ourselves by a name other than Muslim? Since the post explains what the tittle is saying, the word sunni should not be mentioned. Personally speaking, it doesn't sound right and it kills the spirit of the post.
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- Qatada -
06-17-2012, 11:24 AM
Originally Posted by Imaduddin
I don't like how the title says Sunni Muslim. Why do we have to label ourselves by a name other than Muslim? Since the post explains what the tittle is saying, the word sunni should not be mentioned. Personally speaking, it doesn't sound right and it kills the spirit of the post.
asalaamu alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakaatuh

There is a war between the people of Sunnah (Sunnis) and Shi'ah (an ideology which opposes the Sunnah and is committing war crimes on Syrian Sunnis and Sunnis of other lands). So this differentiation needs to be made clear.
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marwen
06-17-2012, 11:29 AM
Muslim and sunni are the same word, so I don't see a problem here. Can you imagine a muslim who does not follow his prophet's sunna ?
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Imaduddin
06-17-2012, 11:30 AM
Originally Posted by - Qatada -
asalaamu alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakaatuh

There is a war between the people of Sunnah (Sunnis) and Shi'ah (an ideology which opposes the Sunnah and is committing war crimes on Syrian Sunnis and Sunnis of other lands). So this differentiation needs to be made clear.
Brother I understand that fully well. It's just that the post itself tells you what the correct teachings of Islam are, ie. the 4 Madhhabs which you mention clearly in the post. There is nothing wrong with us, it's the Shia's who have incorrect teachings. Why should we give ourselves a label when we follow what is right? Let them invent labels for their own incorrect beliefs.
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- Qatada -
06-17-2012, 11:32 AM
Originally Posted by Imaduddin
Brother I understand that fully well. It's just that the post itself tells you what the correct teachings of Islam are, ie. the 4 Madhhabs which you mention clearly in the post. There is nothing wrong with us, it's the Shia's who have incorrect teachings. Why should we give ourselves a label when we follow what is right? Let them invent labels for their own incorrect beliefs.
:salamext:

Sunni is someone who follows the Sunnah, that isn't a bad label to have. :)
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~ Sabr ~
06-17-2012, 11:34 AM
Originally Posted by - Qatada -
you need to study under 1 madhab, then master it until you become a master of that madhab, then you can study another madhab if you want to etc.
72 out of 73 sects will be in Hell - follow which one you think is right.

And Allaah Knows Best
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Imaduddin
06-17-2012, 11:38 AM
Originally Posted by - Qatada -
:salamext:

Sunni is someone who follows the Sunnah, that isn't a bad label to have. :)
What is a Muslim? Isn't a Muslim someone who follows the Sunnah or are we going to say that one can be a Muslim and not follow the Sunnah? Anyone who doesn't follow the Sunnah, no matter what their label, is a kaffir. So if calling ourselves only Muslim isn't sufficient in saying that we follow the Sunnah, then what's the point of calling ourselves Muslim?

I don't mean to debate about this, but like I said, it just sounds wrong since the post is self explanatory and implies following the Sunnah. But maybe I'm just too picky and don't like extra unnecessary labels.

I will leave it at this, sorry for what I've said.
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MustafaMc
06-17-2012, 11:47 AM
I am a Muslim who follows the Sunnah (example) of Muhammad (saaws) for how I live my life and worship my Creator. The Sunnah was initially passed through oral traditions until they were later compiled into books after rigorous authentication. I accept the compilations of hadith such as Bukhari, Muslim, Tirmidhi, and Dawood as being authentic and valid sources of Islamic knowledge. The Quran is my first source of knowledge followed by the aforementioned collections of hadith and then by scholars. I accept those who follow one of the four madhabs (Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi'i, Hanbali) equally as brothers and sisters in Islam. I respect those who don't follow a particular madhab as long as they are not divisive in their actions or words and who are not critical of other Muslims because they do follow one of these 4 madhabs. I respect the companions of Prophet Muhammad (saaws), particularly those who were Muslims before the conquest of Makkah, including the 4 Rightly Guided Caliphs - Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, and Ali (ra).
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MustafaMc
06-17-2012, 12:01 PM
Originally Posted by Imaduddin
What is a Muslim? Isn't a Muslim someone who follows the Sunnah or are we going to say that one can be a Muslim and not follow the Sunnah? Anyone who doesn't follow the Sunnah, no matter what their label, is a kaffir. So if calling ourselves only Muslim isn't sufficient in saying that we follow the Sunnah, then what's the point of calling ourselves Muslim?
Sadly, it is not enough to say "I am a Muslim" because there are those who call themselves Muslim, but who reject all hadith and there are those who disrespect the companions of Prophet Muhammad (saaws) and there are others who say there were other prophets after Muhammad (saaws). The definition that I presented in the previous post can realistically be summarized with a single word, "Sunni". If there is something that I wrote that is inconsistent with this term, then I hope I will be corrected. I am of course a Muslim, but I consider I am a Sunni Muslim as defined above and I strive to learn more about and follow the Shafi'i madhab.
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Imaduddin
06-17-2012, 12:22 PM
Originally Posted by MustafaMc
Sadly, it is not enough to say "I am a Muslim" because there are those who call themselves Muslim, but who reject all hadith and there are those who disrespect the companions of Prophet Muhammad (saaws) and there are others who say there were other prophets after Muhammad (saaws). The definition that I presented in the previous post can realistically be summarized with a single word, "Sunni". If there is something that I wrote that is inconsistent with this term, then I hope I will be corrected. I am of course a Muslim, but I consider I am a Sunni Muslim as defined above and I strive to learn more about and follow the Shafi'i madhab.

From personal experience which I have had with people who belong to those incorrect beliefs which you have mentioned, they tend to label themselves with either, Hadith rejector, Ahmadi Muslim, Shia Muslim etc.


I'm not against using the term sunni. My main concern was with the opening post. And I don't have anything against the brother for what he posted, I agree with him. But a salafi, a sufi etc also are sunnis. So why shouldn't they label themselves as salafi and sufi, while the rest of us who aren't labeling ourselves as sufi or salafi should label ourselves as sunni?


In sufism, they practice music, singing among other few things, and are less strict in some laws which the Madhhabs are. I mean look at what our actions have led to.


A kaffir comes up to you and if you accept some aspects of the sunnah such as homosexuality being a sin or wanting khilafa and rejecting democracy, the kuffar label you an extremist Muslim, so they make you feel bad about your beliefs. And if you follow incorrect teachings they call you a moderate Muslim. That's just pathetic and I dislike Muslims who ascribe to such stupid labels. Labels never bring Unity. They always bring disunity.


Lets look at another example, Dawah is obligatory upon all of us, but if you suddenly start practicing this order, you are forced to identify yourself as part of the Tablighee Jamat. What's with all the labels. That's just disunity.


Sorry about all that, I just don't see labels as the solution. I see action as the solution. The more labels we invent the more disunited we will become and the more we will hate our own brothers and sisters who are following the same thing as us, but just because they use a different label. I don't get this kind of thing.
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- Qatada -
06-17-2012, 12:28 PM
Originally Posted by Imaduddin
From personal experience which I have had with people who belong to those incorrect beliefs which you have mentioned, they tend to label themselves with either, Hadith rejector, Ahmadi Muslim, Shia Muslim etc.
:salamext:

By just adding the word 'Sunni', its removed all the confusion, and united the Sufis, salafis etc. onto one common ground.

If I said just 'Muslim', i can guarantee people would complain that uniting with the Shi'a is a bad idea.


Anyway this is all just a debate on semantics, not worth a debate. We're agreeing on the same thing. :)
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Pure Purple
06-17-2012, 12:29 PM
Originally Posted by Imaduddin
Sorry about all that, I just don't see labels as the solution.
Then what is the solution?Calling oneself muslim and following Islam the way you like it.
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Darth Ultor
06-17-2012, 12:42 PM
Wait wait wait. Don't the Shi'ah follow the Sunnah too? Isn't the only difference here political?
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MustafaMc
06-17-2012, 12:42 PM
Originally Posted by Imaduddin
My main concern was with the opening post.
I do see your point and I agree with what you are saying.
But a salafi, a sufi etc also are sunnis. So why shouldn't they label themselves as salafi and sufi, while the rest of us who aren't labeling ourselves as sufi or salafi should label ourselves as sunni?
Even though on face value the term 'salafi' has a lot of appeal to me, my personal experience has led me to have a general negative opinion of one who calls himself a 'salafi' due to their intolerance for Muslims who follow a madhab, particularly the Hanafi madhab. The examples that you listed for deviance of sufi are otside the realm of Islam, in my opinion, but the inner, spiritual aspect of the sufi should not be denied. I agree that simply 'Muslim' is preferable, but perhaps sometimes a positive term such as 'Sunni' may be neccessary essentially to say what one is and what one is not. The definition I provided above is pretty broad and I would include most all of those I know who claim the title 'Muslim' as fitting in the category so defined.
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Imaduddin
06-17-2012, 12:44 PM
Originally Posted by Pure Purple
Then what is the solution?Calling oneself muslim and following Islam the way you like it.
They say actions speak louder than words.

We act very little and we rely on our words to solve problems. Change and unity don't come through labels. They come through actions. Your speech and actions should both reflect the commands of Allah, we should be a walking Qur'an and a walking Sahih Bukhari book. We do nothing and we try to save our honor and dignity by labels. Can you see in anyone's name (the members of this forum) the word sunni, I haven't seen it yet, but I can tell who is a 'Sunni' and who is a Shia, and who a non-Muslim. If your speech and actions do not reflect the teachings of the Qur'an and the Sunnah, then no amount of labels can make up for that.
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Imaduddin
06-17-2012, 12:47 PM
Originally Posted by Darth Ultor
Wait wait wait. Don't the Shi'ah follow the Sunnah too? Isn't the only difference here political?
They follow parts of the Sunnah, their way of obtaining the authenticity of hadith is not like that of ours. The sunnah and Qur'an order to be respectful the Sahaba, they Shia do not do that. There are many other things, I can't remember them correctly right now.
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Imaduddin
06-17-2012, 12:52 PM
Originally Posted by MustafaMc
I do see your point and I agree with what you are saying.Even though on face value the term 'salafi' has a lot of appeal to me, my personal experience has led me to have a general negative opinion of one who calls himself a 'salafi' due to their intolerance for Muslims who follow a madhab, particularly the Hanafi madhab. The examples that you listed for deviance of sufi are otside the realm of Islam, in my opinion, but the inner, spiritual aspect of the sufi should not be denied. I agree that simply 'Muslim' is preferable, but perhaps sometimes a positive term such as 'Sunni' may be neccessary essentially to say what one is and what one is not. The definition I provided above is pretty broad and I would include most all of those I know who claim the title 'Muslim' as fitting in the category so defined.
I agree with your argument, and I too dislike some actions and beliefs of those who identify as Salafi's. For one, I dislike their poor housekeeping of the graves of the Sahaba because they think those of us who follow the madhhabs are more prone to shirk and we tend to become grave worshipers, while they are elite and they don't commit shirk and are better than everyone else, hence the term Salafi.

I think I've said too much in this thread, I probably shouldn't have.
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ardianto
06-17-2012, 01:00 PM
Originally Posted by - Qatada -
You're a Sunni Muslim who tries to follow the way of the Salaf (earliest generation of Muslims) in the best way possible.
Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh

People who walk on Manhaj As-Salaf are not those who call themselves Salafis. People who call themselves Salafis are not people who walk on Manhaj As-Salaf.

This is the conclusion that I have made after I learned about Manhaj As-Salaf and the Salafi.

There are people who active in da'wah to remind ummah to follow Qur'an and Sunnah properly and take Salafus Salih as the role model. And they do not stop on it. They gave many da'wah, they wrote many articles to make ummah know how the Salafus Salih lived under Islam. I often read their articles that full of refference from Sahaba, Tabi'in, Tabi'in Tabi, Madhab Imam, and other Salafus Salih. I often meet them in masjid, and I know few of them personaly. Honestly, their level of piousness really impress me.

Are they Salafis?. No, they never call themselves Salafi.

Unfortunatelly, In another side I saw other people who proudly call themselves Salafis and claim they are the only people who walk on Manhaj As-Salaf. But do they know what the Manhaj As-Salaf is?, I doubt. Da'wah that they give are only call kufar or deviant to other Muslims. And whitout intention to make fitnah, from what I have noticed, the Salafis are the only Muslims who dare to claim they will go to Jannah while all non-Salafis will go to the hell. This is something that Salafus salih had never done.

The Salafus Salih are people who always fear to Allah, they never sure they would go to Jannah, and it made them always tried to bring themselves closer to Allah.

So, brothers, sisters, do not ever call yourself Salafi if you want to walk on Manhaj As-Salaf. Once you call yourself Salafi, you will fall into arrogance.
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~ Sabr ~
06-17-2012, 01:08 PM
^ Agreed brother !
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MustafaMc
06-17-2012, 01:11 PM
Originally Posted by Imaduddin
I think I've said too much in this thread, I probably shouldn't have.
No, you have a valid point and you were right to speak your mind that the use of labels is divisive. I think all who refer to themselves as 'Sunni' would prefer to be known simply as Muslim, but at the same time to differentiate themselves from others such as we have discussed and to do so the unfortunate result is another label for ourselves whether we like it or not. I for one do not see the term 'Sunni' as divisive as I include a wide range of folks in that term while at the same time feeling separate from others who use a different term.
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glo
06-17-2012, 01:25 PM
Originally Posted by Imaduddin
They follow parts of the Sunnah, their way of obtaining the authenticity of hadith is not like that of ours. The sunnah and Qur'an order to be respectful the Sahaba, the Shia do not do that. There are many other things, I can't remember them correctly right now.
Originally Posted by - Qatada -
asalaamu alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakaatuh

There is a war between the people of Sunnah (Sunnis) and Shi'ah (an ideology which opposes the Sunnah and is committing war crimes on Syrian Sunnis and Sunnis of other lands). So this differentiation needs to be made clear.
Originally Posted by Imaduddin
From personal experience which I have had with people who belong to those incorrect beliefs which you have mentioned, they tend to label themselves with either, Hadith rejector, Ahmadi Muslim, Shia Muslim etc.
I am sorry, but this thread sounds to me like it is very negative towards any Muslims other than Sunnis ... :hmm:

I thought sectarian discussions were not permitted and I am surprised this thread is allowed to go on.

Are you saying that only Sunnis are true Muslims?
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Darth Ultor
06-17-2012, 01:45 PM
Originally Posted by Imaduddin
They follow parts of the Sunnah, their way of obtaining the authenticity of hadith is not like that of ours. The sunnah and Qur'an order to be respectful the Sahaba, they Shia do not do that. There are many other things, I can't remember them correctly right now.
Oh, I thought is was only about who should lead the religion after Muhammad died. Did Ali start the Shia movement or was it only his followers?
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