PDA

View Full Version : Which ones are fixed DESTINY?



prayforme
06-21-2012, 02:17 AM
Asslamualikum. Destiny is one of the most controversial topics of Islam. so lets not go in to it. But lets just discuss which ones are FIXED and 'free will' has no part in it.

The only one I can think of is 'Birth' we do not have any control, choice or what so ever about it. In my opinion It is 100% fixed destiny. Is there any other like that?
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
~ Sabr ~
06-21-2012, 08:21 AM
:salamext:

Belief in destiny and fate is one of the basic beliefs of Islam. It means that Allaah is the Knower of all things and the Creator of all things; nothing exists outside of His will and decree. He wrote down all things with Him in al-Lawh al-Mahfooz (the Preserved Tablet), and this was fifty thousand years before He created the universe.

Everything in the universe, every creature and the things it does, is the creation of Allaah.

Whatever He wills happens, and whatever He does not will does not happen. If something happens to a person, it could not have missed him, and if something does not happen to him, it could not have happened to him.

A person is not forced to obey or disobey Allaah – he has free will as befits his state, but it is subject to the will of the Creator. And Allaah knows best..


Source: http://islamqa.info/en/ref/6287
Reply

yasirslm
06-21-2012, 09:10 AM
Originally Posted by Haafizah
Belief in destiny and fate is one of the basic beliefs of Islam. It means that Allaah is the Knower of all things and the Creator of all things; nothing exists outside of His will and decree. He wrote down all things with Him in al-Lawh al-Mahfooz (the Preserved Tablet), and this was fifty thousand years before He created the universe.

Everything in the universe, every creature and the things it does, is the creation of Allaah.


Whatever He wills happens, and whatever He does not will does not happen. If something happens to a person, it could not have missed him, and if something does not happen to him, it could not have happened to him.

A person is not forced to obey or disobey Allaah – he has free will as befits his state, but it is subject to the will of the Creator. And Allaah knows best..
Excellent:)
Reply

prayforme
06-21-2012, 12:10 PM
Jazak Allah kahyer for the reply. But that was not the point of my post I am afraid. Allah knows everything and everything is happening because Allah wants that to happen are 2 different things. And there are major differences in these 2 statements. If everything happens because Allah wants that to happen then no one is responsible for his sins!

But as I said in the beginning on the post, we are not discussing about the total Destiny/Fate. We want to discuss, which is FIXED DESTINY, where no one has any control and no one will be held responsible. As I have given example of 'BIRTH' no one as control over where he will born, in which family, which country when etc... and he is not held responsible for his birth to a for example criminal family, or non muslim family and so on. There is no free will and he is not held responsible for his birth because it is a 'FIXED DESTINY' I hope it clarifies.

I want to know if there is any other things like that 'Fixed destiny'. some people say 'Birth' 'death' marriage' are fixed destiny which is not correct in my knowledge. Only 'Birth' is fixed destiny IMHO.
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
~ Sabr ~
06-21-2012, 12:19 PM
We should not delve too deeply into these matters InshaAllaah.



Indulging in that which does not concern one, asking about that which is inappropriate, and delving too deeply into that which is of no benefit.

al-Khattaabi said:
The one who goes to extremes is the one who delves too deeply into a thing, and burdens himself with looking into it in the manner of ahl al-kalaam, who examined matters that do not concern them, who indulge in that which their minds cannot comprehend. End quote from ‘Awn al-Ma’bood (12/235).

Ibn Rajab said in Jaami’ al-‘Uloom wa’l-Hukam (p. 285):
The one who goes to extremes is the one who delves too deeply and looks into that which does not concern him. Examining and asking too much about the ruling on something that is not mentioned among obligatory duties or haraam things may lead to thinking that it is haraam or it is obligatory, because of its similarity to some duties or prohibitions. Accepting pardon for it or refraining from asking too much about it is better.

Source: http://islamqa.info/en/ref/103889
Reply

prayforme
06-21-2012, 01:37 PM
Thanks for reply brother. These quotation are from some scholars and not any Hadis. I strongly dis agree with this attitude of some scholars. When some scholars do not know an answer right way or it is sensitive, they reply some thing like that ' don't' go to deep that do not concern you etc etc ' I really don't like this attitude of the scholars, where they turn down by not answering a question posed by an honest questioner.

We know stories where companions used to ask every single details even we know where companions used to ask 'How big the grape in heaven will be' prophet(pbuh) didn't reply saying ' don't go deeply so much, you can check it out when you go to heaven now do things to go to heaven' rather than that our beloved prophet(pbuh) answered him in details.

I am sure if you ask this same question about the size of the grape to a scholar he will tell ' do not ask questions that do not concern you'... Because of this kind of attitude, most of the scientific explanation of quaran is discovered by non Muslims rather than Muslims.

If people didn't go deep, all these scientific information wont be discovered in quran.

Even Quran tells to investigate.. seek knowledge. In many verses we get something like ' Indeed in that is a sign for the believers.' ' Indeed in that is a sign for a people who give thought.' etc...

Anyway, if any one has any idea about 'fixed destiny' like 'Birth' please share. Jazak allah khayer.
Reply

~ Sabr ~
06-21-2012, 01:43 PM
Originally Posted by prayforme
Thanks for reply brother.
I am a sister.

Originally Posted by prayforme
We know stories where companions used to ask every single details
Their Imaan and our Imaan has a distance of the earth and the sky.

Why do scholars say that? Because a person can delve too much into Islaam and then their Imaan is affected.

E.g.
If you ask HOW will Allaah raise the dead? We know Allaah is capable of doing it, but HOW? We DON'T know HOW, all we say is He Will.
If you ask Allaah has a shin, but what is the shape? We don't ask that, we accept He has a Shin as He has Said He Has.

Now do you understand?
Reply

sofiap
06-21-2012, 02:19 PM
"He is the one who has created you of clay, then decreed the term; and the predetermined term is with Him; and yet you doubt."(6:2)birth
"And ageth not any aged, nor is reduced from any one's life, but it is all in a Book; verily it is easy for Allah.”(35:11) death
“No calamity befalls on the earth or in yourselves but it is inscribed in the Book of Decrees (Al‑Lawh Al‑Mahfooz) before We bring it into existence. Verily, that is easy for Allaah”
[al-Hadeed 57:22]
“Verily, We have created all things with Qadar (Divine Preordainments of all things before their creation as written in the Book of Decrees Al‑Lawh Al‑Mahfooz)”
[al-Qamar 54:49]
"Verily my Lord enlarges and restricts the provision to whom He pleases but most men understand not."{34:36]sustenance..
these are just some collections from sites giving proof,using the best Source, Al Quran..im sure other brothers and sister will add to bringing more truth insha Allaah..it covers much of our lives...keep asking the guidance of Allaah eachtime you question,and have patience for truth..Allah will explain it to you the way He knows you will understand and when the right time you will insha Allaah..sorry to the admins,if i have broken rule of text,but i dont know how to bring it back to the normal text and colour..
Reply

Scimitar
06-21-2012, 02:20 PM
Originally Posted by prayforme
Thanks for reply brother. These quotation are from some scholars and not any Hadis. I strongly dis agree with this attitude of some scholars. When some scholars do not know an answer right way or it is sensitive, they reply some thing like that ' don't' go to deep that do not concern you etc etc ' I really don't like this attitude of the scholars, where they turn down by not answering a question posed by an honest questioner.

We know stories where companions used to ask every single details even we know where companions used to ask 'How big the grape in heaven will be' prophet(pbuh) didn't reply saying ' don't go deeply so much, you can check it out when you go to heaven now do things to go to heaven' rather than that our beloved prophet(pbuh) answered him in details.

I am sure if you ask this same question about the size of the grape to a scholar he will tell ' do not ask questions that do not concern you'... Because of this kind of attitude, most of the scientific explanation of quaran is discovered by non Muslims rather than Muslims.

If people didn't go deep, all these scientific information wont be discovered in quran.

Even Quran tells to investigate.. seek knowledge. In many verses we get something like ' Indeed in that is a sign for the believers.' ' Indeed in that is a sign for a people who give thought.' etc...

Anyway, if any one has any idea about 'fixed destiny' like 'Birth' please share. Jazak allah khayer.
No offence, but i have read posts like these from Muslims on many forums, not just this one. Such a shame that we cannot just take what the learnt ulema of Islam just tell us.

Fixed destiny, let me answer you to the best of my knowledge (which is shamefully weak). Allah has decided for you who (how many times) you marry, your earning potential and the time and place of your death.

Everything else, is for you to fill in.

The question you asked does not come with answers that don't have a certain mischief in them. Let me explain, if he had answered you as I had done above, you may have become complacent in looking for a wife - thinking, "Allah has already decided so it will happen" and this is not the way we are supposed to do things. We must go through the motions of looking for a suitable partner, and if we are sincere in our intentions then Allah rewards us with that which HE has planned for us. Understand?

Salaam, Scimi
Reply

sofiap
06-21-2012, 02:31 PM
sorry,the second one is more about the earthly age we have been decreed,before death takes us..sorry guys bare with me...lool...and what sister hafizah also said,bares truth,that we all are learning and growing,somtimes what can happen is when somthing yet hasn't come to our understanding by Allahs will,it can frustrate one,and may lead to more harm,im sure she meant no ill by this..we all are learning insha Allaah, no one should say we are learnt,as only Allaah has full knowledge..and if He wishes to bestow that part of knowledge to you..that is His will insha Allaah...have a blessed day..
Reply

fathima sultana
06-21-2012, 03:57 PM
ASSALAM ALAIKUM..

The book of destiny:- Sahih muslim, Bukhari.

Abdullah (b. Mas'ud) reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) who is the most truthful (of the human beings) and his being truthful (is a fact) said: Verily your creation is on this wise. The constituents of one of you are collected for forty days in his mother's womb in the form of blood, after which it becomes a clot of blood in another period of forty days. Then it becomes a lump of flesh and forty days later Allah sends His angel to it with instructions concerning four things, so the angel writes down his livelihood, his death, his deeds, his fortune and misfortune. By Him, besides Whom there is no god, that one amongst you acts like the people deserving Paradise until between him and Paradise there remains but the distance of a cubit, when suddenly the writing of destiny overcomes him and he begins to act like the denizens of Hell and thus enters Hell, and another one acts in the way of the denizens of Hell, until there remains between him and Hell a distance of a cubit that the writing of destiny overcomes him and then he begins to act like the people of Paradise and enters Paradise.

According this hadith, these r the things wch r fixed by ALLAH.

The book of destiny:- sahih muslim, bukhari.

Abu Tufail reported: I visited Abu Sariha Hudhaifa b. Usaid al-Ghifari who said: I listened with these two ears of mine Allahs Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The semen stays in the womb for forty nights, then the angel, gives it a shape. Zubair said: I think that he said: One who fashions that and decides whether he would be male or female. Then he (the angel) says: Would his limbs be full or imperfect? And then the Lord makes thein full and perfect or otherwise as He desires. Then he says: My Lord, what about his livelihood, and his death and what about his disposition? And then the Lord decides about his misfortune and fortune

The book of destiny:- Sahih muslim, Bukhari
Hudhaifa b. Usaid reported directly from Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) that lie said: When the drop of (semen) remains in the womb for forty or fifty (days) or forty nights, the angel comes and says: My Lord, will he be good or evil? And both these things would be written. Then the angel says: My Lord, would he be male or female? And both these things are written. And his deeds and actions, his death, his livelihood; these are also recorded. Then his document of destiny is rolled and there is no, addition to and subtraction from it.

The book of destiny:- Sahih muslim, bukhari.

Ali reported: We were in a funeral in the graveyard of Gharqad that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) came to us and we sat around him. He had a stick with him. He lowered his head and began to scratch the earth with his stick, and then raid: There is not one amongst you whom a scat in Paradise or Hell has not been allotted and about whom it has not been written down whether he would be an evil person or a blessed person. A person said: Allah's Messenger, should we not then depend upon our destiny and abandon our deeds? Thereupon he said: Acts of everyone will be facilitated in, that which has been created for him so that whoever belongs to the company of the blessed will have good works made easier for himand whoever belongs to the unfortunate ones will have evil acts made easier for him. He then recited this verse (from the Qur'an):" Then, who gives to the needy and guards against evil and accepts the excellent (the truth of Islam and the path of righteousness it prescribes), We shall make easy for him the easy end and who is miserly and considers himself above need, We shall make easy for him the dificult end".

I hope the above hadiths are enough for us to understand about destiny and the things which we cant change. As in the last hadith our prophet mentioned the Quranic verse, from that we understand that its ALLAH one and only who can guide us to the straight path and protect us from fire. So u should always seek guidance and protection from hell fire from ALLAH..
ALLAH KNOWS BEST.
Reply

prayforme
06-25-2012, 10:56 PM
Jazak allah kahyer for reply. I think I could not make my self clear. I didn't ask question about general 'Destiny/Fate' We know there is a relation between free will and destiny and we should not go deep about that.

My question was about 'FIXED DESTINY' where there is no option for free will. As an example I mentioned 'Birth', free will doesn't work here. I didn' have any choice to birth in a certain family, time, country etc... It was 100% FIXED. So I was asking if there is anything like that. or Only 'Birth' is the fixed destiny?
Reply

Calm_Sea
06-26-2012, 05:44 AM
We do not have free will in death also?
Reply

ShakeelShahzad
06-26-2012, 11:09 AM
Originally Posted by Calm_Sea
We do not have free will in death also?
Well, i am gonna share a famous incident i keep hearing from my elders and Ullamas.
Once a person came to Hazrat Ali(R.A) and asked him about the difference of Destiny(Fate) and the self will. Hazrat Ali(R.A), the door of Education and purity aked him to lift his one foot in the air and stay standing. The man did it easily, now Hazrat Ali(R.A) asked him to lift his second foot at the same time while his one foot is in the air. The man looked at him and replied, this is not in my control. Then Hazrat Ali(R.A) replied, so the half of the task is in your will and control and the remaining is your destiy, fate and the God's will.

I hope i make it clear and easy for everyone to understand what i meant to say.

May Almighty mercy upon all of us. Ameen.

Regards...
Shakeel
Reply

Muhaba
06-26-2012, 12:17 PM
one shouldn't wonder about these sort of things as it is beyond our comprehension.

we must try our best to do righteous deeds and refrain from wrong deeds. we must try our best to earn halal and refrain from haram. we must try our best to do whatever we want (that is allowed in Islam). After trying, if we get it, it means that it was destined for us. if not, it means it wasn't destined for us.

for example, you want an education. you try your best to get into a good college, study, etc, but in the end, you don't succeed and don't pass the exam, despite studying very hard. that is destiny. you tried but still didn't get it.

the trying part is your free will and whether you attain your goals after trying is destiny.

don't let this be an excuse for not trying. if you say, "if i'm destined to do this, i will" but don't try for it, you will be responsible. for example, you have hungry children but you don't go out to earn saying "if it's destiny, i'll get the money," you are reseponsible for anyhting that happens to you or the children.

but if you try to earn but still don't earn anything, it means the money wasn't in your fate.

but this shouldn't make you turn to haraam. if you don't earn anything through halal means, you still have no right to go to haraam means. you'll have to be pateint and keep trying for halal.

i hope my answer is clear.
Reply

Muhaba
06-26-2012, 12:22 PM
as for obligatory religious deeds, such as praying, you have to do them. if you don't pray, you can't blame it on destiny, saying i wasn't destined to pray.

if you don't pray, this is your free will and you will be punished for not praying.
Reply

prayforme
06-26-2012, 09:49 PM
Assalamualikum. Zajak allah khayer brother/sister. But I doubt, if any one is actually reading my posts at all :hmm: I am a not asking about general 'Fate/destiny.

Most of the replies are about general Destiny-freewill loop. I am not asking about the destiny where we have options, free will and we are accountable for that.

I am asking about 'FIXED DESTINY' where there is no option for free will. and we are not accountable for such actions. As far as I can see 'Birth' is the only fixed destiny where we do not have any control and we are not accountable for this. Any one has any other thought?
Reply

ShakeelShahzad
06-26-2012, 10:14 PM
Originally Posted by prayforme
Assalamualikum. Zajak allah khayer brother/sister. But I doubt, if any one is actually reading my posts at all :hmm: I am a not asking about general 'Fate/destiny.

Most of the replies are about general Destiny-freewill loop. I am not asking about the destiny where we have options, free will and we are accountable for that.

I am asking about 'FIXED DESTINY' where there is no option for free will. and we are not accountable for such actions. As far as I can see 'Birth' is the only fixed destiny where we do not have any control and we are not accountable for this. Any one has any other thought?
Assalam u Alaikum Brother,
Do you really think that Birth is a fixed destiny? Well, i don't even believe in this if birth is a fixed destiny.
Anyone disagree?

May Almighty mercy upon all of us. Ameen

Regards...
Shakeel
Reply

prayforme
06-26-2012, 10:52 PM
Walikum salam brother Shakeel ,

Did you have any option or free will or did any one ask you, when you want to come to this earth? which part of the earth, who will be your parents etc? If not, it is a 'FIXED DESTINY'
Reply

ShakeelShahzad
06-27-2012, 09:55 AM
Originally Posted by prayforme
Walikum salam brother Shakeel ,

Did you have any option or free will or did any one ask you, when you want to come to this earth? which part of the earth, who will be your parents etc? If not, it is a 'FIXED DESTINY'
Brother this is misconception, no one asked you but you are not here coz of you but of your parents and above of all, Almighty wanted you to come to this earth. Again there is no fixed destiny. Your destiny is chosen by Almighty, you and the persons belonging to you.

May Almighty mercy upon all of us. Ameen.

Regards...
Shakeel.
Reply

prayforme
06-29-2012, 11:53 PM
If there is NO FIXED destiny, what you think about this Hadis:

Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, "Adam and Moses argued with each other. Moses said to Adam. 'O Adam! You are our father who disappointed us and turned us out of Paradise.' Then Adam said to him, 'O Moses! Allah favored you with His talk (talked to you directly) and He wrote (the Torah) for you with His Own Hand. Do you blame me for action which Allah had written in my fate forty years before my creation?' So Adam confuted Moses, Adam confuted Moses," the Prophet added, repeating the Statement three times. [Sahih Bukhari. Volume 8, Book 77, Number 611]
Reply

ShakeelShahzad
07-02-2012, 02:45 PM
Originally Posted by prayforme
If there is NO FIXED destiny, what you think about this Hadis:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, "Adam and Moses argued with each other. Moses said to Adam. 'O Adam! You are our father who disappointed us and turned us out of Paradise.' Then Adam said to him, 'O Moses! Allah favored you with His talk (talked to you directly) and He wrote (the Torah) for you with His Own Hand. Do you blame me for action which Allah had written in my fate forty years before my creation?' So Adam confuted Moses, Adam confuted Moses," the Prophet added, repeating the Statement three times. [Sahih Bukhari. Volume 8, Book 77, Number 611]
Assalam u Alaikum,
Thanks a lot for sharing this information. I have never seen this and now i confirmed this as well. So, yeah there is Fixed Destiny. I take all my arguments back as per my knowledge i didn't know about this.
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!