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albanianbrother
06-21-2012, 07:34 PM
How can muhammad be a prophet but yet disagree with all the prophets before him and the books sent before him? if allah said the gospel, psalms and torah have light and guidance how can they disagree with the quran? how can prophets before muhammad disgree with muhammad if muhammad is a prophet ?

for example Sura 3:3 says:
He has sent down upon thee the Book with truth,
confirming what was before it,
and he sent down the Torah and the Gospel aforetime

1/ The Qur'an teaches that all scripture should be respected in the same way:
O ye who believe! Believe in Allah and His Apostle, and the scripture which He hath sent to His Apostle and the scripture which He sent to those before (him). Any who denieth Allah, His Angels, His Books, His Apostles, and the Day of Judgement, hath gone far, far astray (4:136 AYA).
We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the Prophets, from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another among them (3:84 AYA)

here the arabic of the quran
نَّ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ ثُمَّ كَفَرُواْ ثُمَّ ءَامَنُواْ ثُمَّ كَفَرُواْ ثُمَّ ٱزۡدَادُواْ كُفۡرً۬ا لَّمۡ يَكُنِ ٱللَّهُ لِيَغۡفِرَ لَهُمۡ وَلَا لِيَہۡدِيَہُمۡ سَبِيلاَۢ
as for example of the disagreements between muhammad and moses for right now.
1.but Adam in the bible, in the torah which moses wrote says eden was on earth and not in heaven also it makes no mention of jinns a pagan invention by the arabs.
2. in the bible moses writes that adam taught the names for animals not everything
3. in the quran the angels are commanded to bow to adam( of course this is worship and shirk) moses makes no note of this.
4. Noah's flood was world wide and not local
5. he had three sons not four
6. quran says ishmael was the chosen son of abraham but the bible says issac both were bless but only one of them had the covant with God almighty
7. abraham and ishmael never went to mecca neither is there a verse in the quran that says so
8. in the quran mary the mother of jesus is called the sister of aaron the brother of moses how can this be if there was more then a thousand years differenace?
9. in the quran Jesus is just a prophet but in the bible he is that and more John 14:8-10 Jesus claims to be God but yet muslims don't trust in what Jesus said?
10. also the revalations of God ended with the last book written by the beloved apostle john called Revelation so how can God say I ended my revelations and then later add to it and don't say the bible currpte or allah made no promise to protect read Psalm 12:7 God protects his word and in the quran surah 6:34 no one can change his words
Rejected were the Messengers before thee: with patience and constancy they bore their rejection and their wrongs until Our aid did reach them: there is none that can alter the Words (and Decrees) of Allah. Already hast thou received some account of those Messengers

وَلَقَدۡ كُذِّبَتۡ رُسُلٌ۬ مِّن قَبۡلِكَ فَصَبَرُواْ عَلَىٰ مَا كُذِّبُواْ وَأُوذُواْ حَتَّىٰٓ أَتَٮٰهُمۡ نَصۡرُنَا*ۚ وَلَا مُبَدِّلَ لِكَلِمَـٰتِ ٱللَّهِ*ۚ وَلَقَدۡ
جَآءَكَ مِن نَّبَإِىْ ٱلۡمُرۡسَلِينَ (٣٤)
so how can the quran be relible if it's in disagreement with allah's books that came before the quran and these books are not changed by man for if they were allah lied in the quran and therefore he is not God as i show in the verse above

if anyone can please answer these questions or want discussion please reply
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Abz2000
06-21-2012, 07:49 PM
Originally Posted by albanianbrother
4. Noah's flood was world wide and not local
ummmm
if it was worldwide, then you'd have to admit that the previous scriptures have been "improved"




Attachment 4937

Attachment 4936

now tell me
how could abraham pbuh have been alive in 1948, and noah pbuh dies 2006 (after creation of adam), when all the pagans were destroyed and noah pbuh and the believers survived?
since Abraham pbuh came and found a people, including the despot king entrenched for generations in idolatry???

either the whole earth was flooded and abraham came long after,
or the whole earth wasn't flooded
either way, don't u think someone made a mistake in their story?
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~ Sabr ~
06-21-2012, 07:58 PM
The guy is spamming, don't lead him on.
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Muhaba
06-21-2012, 08:22 PM
We have to believe in the former scriptures but none of them exist in their original form. what exists today of the former scriptures are altered copies or altogether fakes (not the original but written by other people). The bible for example, isn't the Injeel revealed to Prophet Isa (Alaihi Assalam) but what was written by others many years later. Even christians acknowledge this.

Only the Quran is in its original form. It is preserved by God (Allah) since it will be a source of guidance for all people till the Day of Judgment. Since Prophet Muhammad (SAW) was the final Prophet and the Quran was the final Holy Book (and no other Prophet or Holy Book will be sent by God), so God preserved the Quran for mankind's guidance.
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جوري
06-21-2012, 08:44 PM



Textual Integrity Of The Bible
Is the Bible that we have in our hands today unchanged? Or has it undergone extensive revisions and alterations? Truth is the first victim in the Christian apologetical literature. This is because if they tell the truth about the Church history and its role in formulating the Bible (or Bibles) as well as the manuscript tradition of the New Testament, belief in the Bible as the "Word" of God would take the beating and the Churches would go absolutely empty. Hence it is not be surprising to find an average Christian's knowledge about his own scriptures is pretty close to zero.
This page is to educate the Muslims about the Bible of the Christians, concerning mainly with its compilation and textual reliability. It is often seen that Christian missionaries dupe less-knowledgeable Muslims about the Bible by saying that the Qur'an confirms the Bible and hence Muslims should believe in the Bible. Muslims should remember that the Qur'an attests Torah, Zabur and Injil as revelations from God given to the Prophet. It does not attest whatever writers of the Old Testament or St. Paul in the New Testament wrote or said.
But what is the textual reliability of the so-called Torah, Zabur and Injil present in the modern Bibles? The aim of this page is to venture into this issue. If one can't establish the 'revealed' books' textual reliability, is there any point calling it as the Word of God?
Lastly, we have made sure that we use the references of Judeo-Christian scholars of repute not the apologetical literature for very obvious reasons.
The Canon Of The Bible
A detailed discussion about the various canons of the Bible drawn at various times by different Churches can be seen here.
The New Testament Manuscripts Was The Bible Same As We have In Our Hands Today?
The Bible and Its 'Inspiration'
Textual Reliability Of The Bible - Who Is Afraid Of Textual Criticism?
Criteria Used In Choosing Among Conflicting Readings In New Testament Witnesses

  1. Introduction
  2. The Criteria
  3. Outline Of Criteria
    1. External Evidence
    2. Internal Evidence

  4. Some Examples

Textual Reliability / Accuracy Of The New Testament
Sir David Dalrymple (Lord Hailes), The Patristic Citations Of The Ante-Nicene Church Fathers And The Search For Eleven Missing Verses Of The New Testament
Based on a narrative whose source is alleged to have been the renowned Scottish Judge Sir David Dalrymple (Lord Hailes), it is frequently asserted that the entire New Testament can be reconstructed from the citations of the Church Fathers of the first three centuries, with the exception of only eleven verses. Going back to the original documents, something which none of the authors have attempted to study, it is shown that the data in them clearly disproves this claim – repeated in numerous missionary and apologetical publications for a period of more than 165 years.


Modern Approaches To New Testament Textual Criticism

  1. Radical Eclecticism (G. D. Kilpatrick, J. K. Elliott)
  2. Reasoned Eclecticism (B. M. Metzger, K. Aland)
  3. Reasoned Conservatism (H. A. Sturz)
  4. Radical Conservatism (Z. Hodges, A. Farstad)

Critical Text Of The New Testament: Methodology and Implications

  1. Introduction
  2. Formation Of A Critical Text: Methodology and Implications
  3. Conclusion
  4. Appendix: Other Articles Of Interest

The Multivalence Of The Term "Original Text" In New Testament Textual Criticism, E. Jay Epp, Harvard Theological Review, 1999, Volume 92, No. 3. pp. 245-281.

  1. Introduction
  2. The Use of the Term "Original Text" Past and Present and Its Multivalence
  3. The Relation of an Elusive, Multivalent "Original Text" to the Concept of "Canon"
  4. Conclusion

Who Is Afraid Of Textual Criticism?

  1. Variant Readings In The Qur'an and In The Bible
    1. The Qur'an, Its Variant Readings and Islamic Scholarship
    2. The New Testament, Its Problems and The Critical Texts

  2. Textual Criticism and The Reaction Of The Church
    1. J Mill
    2. R Bentley
    3. J J Wettstein
    4. B F Westcott and J A Hort



© Islamic Awareness, All Rights Reserved.
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albanianbrother
06-21-2012, 08:47 PM
Originally Posted by WRITER
We have to believe in the former scriptures but none of them exist in their original form. what exists today of the former scriptures are altered copies or altogether fakes (not the original but written by other people). The bible for example, isn't the Injeel revealed to Prophet Isa (Alaihi Assalam) but what was written by others many years later. Even christians acknowledge this.
so your disbelive what allah said in surah 6 34 saying no one can change the words of allah, so how can the gospel be changed or lost, and also your quran says go to the people of the book and their scriptures but my scriptures only condemn muhammad so who right allah who says none can change my word and o to the people of the book and check their scriptures for proof or muslims who say its not the real gospel ??? does this logic make sense brother or sister none at all so choose the gospel is unchanged and not lost and muhammad a false prophet or dont trust what your quran says??
Reply

جوري
06-21-2012, 08:50 PM
Originally Posted by albanianbrother
so your disbelive what allah said in surah 6 34 saying no one can change the words of allah, so how can the gospel be changed or lost, and also your quran says go to the people of the book and their scriptures but my scriptures only condemn muhammad so who right allah who says none can change my word and o to the people of the book and check their scriptures for proof or muslims who say its not the real gospel ??? does this logic make sense brother or sister none at all so choose the gospel is unchanged and not lost and muhammad a false prophet or dont trust what your quran says??
Please see post number 5:
http://www.islamicboard.com/introduc...ml#post1526666
and then rethink your queries.. you're not standing on solid footing right now when it comes to some semblance of logical consistency!

best,
Reply

albanianbrother
06-21-2012, 08:51 PM
Originally Posted by WRITER
We have to believe in the former scriptures but none of them exist in their original form. what exists today of the former scriptures are altered copies or altogether fakes (not the original but written by other people). The bible for example, isn't the Injeel revealed to Prophet Isa (Alaihi Assalam) but what was written by others many years later. Even christians acknowledge this.
<br><br>so your disbelive what allah said in surah 6 34 saying no one can change the words of allah, so how can the gospel be changed or lost, and also your quran says go to the people of the book and their scriptures but my scriptures only condemn muhammad so who right allah who says none can change my word and o to the people of the book and check their scriptures for proof or muslims who say its not the real gospel ??? does this logic make sense brother or sister none at all so choose the gospel is unchanged and not lost and muhammad a false prophet or dont trust what your quran says??
Reply

Muhaba
06-21-2012, 08:59 PM
Originally Posted by albanianbrother
so your disbelive what allah said in surah 6 34 saying no one can change the words of allah, so how can the gospel be changed or lost, and also your quran says go to the people of the book and their scriptures but my scriptures only condemn muhammad so who right allah who says none can change my word and o to the people of the book and check their scriptures for proof or muslims who say its not the real gospel ??? does this logic make sense brother or sister none at all so choose the gospel is unchanged and not lost and muhammad a false prophet or dont trust what your quran says??
Please don't take the words out of context and don't misinterprete the verses/words of the Quran.
Here are the verses with their commentary:

33 – 36: O Muhammad, we know that what they say grieves you but it is not you whom they charge with falsehood; these wicked people are, in fact, denying the Revelations of Allah. Many Messengers have been treated as impostors before you, but they bore with fortitude the charge of imposture and persecution (by the disbelievers) till Our help came down to them. None has the power to change the Law of Allah, and you have already received the news of what happened to the Messengers before you. However, if you find it hard to bear their aversion, then seek out, if you can, an opening into the earth, or set up a ladder to they sky so that you may bring them a Sign. Had Allah willed, He would have gathered them all on guidance; so do not behave like the ignorant people. Only those who listen to it accept the Message; as for the dead, Allah will raise them from the graves and they shall be brought back to (be produced in His Court).

Commentary:
O Muhammad, we know that what they say grieves you but it is not you whom they charge with falsehood; these wicked people are, in fact, denying the Revelations of Allah.
Commentary: It is a fact that all the people of his tribe regarded the Holy Prophet صلى الله عليه و سلم truthful and honest up to the time he had not begun to recite the Revelations of Allah before them. They falsified him only when he began to deliver to them the Message of Allah. Even then, there was none who dared charge Muhammad, the man, (Allah’s peace be upon him) with falsehood; nay, even his bitterest enemies never accused him of having ever told a lie concerning any worldly matter. It was Muhammad, the Prophet, صلى الله عليه و سلم whom they charged with falsehood. So much so that even Abu Jahl, who was the bitterest of all the enemies of the Holy Prophet صلى الله عليه و سلم, never accused him of falsehood. According to a tradition related by Hadrat Ali رضي الله عنه , Abu Jahl declared during a conversation with the Holy Prophet صلى الله عليه و سلم , “We do not call you a liar but regard as false what you are presenting.” On the occasion of the Battle of Badr, Akhnas bin Shariq asked Abu Jahl in private, “There is no third person here besides us two. Tell me the truth whether you regard Muhammad to be a truthful man or a liar.” He answered, “By God, Muhammad is a truthful person and has never told a lie in his whole life, but if Bani Qusayy, who have already the privilege of being the bearers of the national flag and the providers of water to the pilgrims and the keepers of the keys of the Ka’abah, should also be acknowledged as the recipients of Prophethood, what would then be left for the rest of the Quraish?” For this very reason Allah is comforting His Prophet صلى الله عليه و سلم , saying, “It is not you whom they are rejecting as impostor but it is Our Message which they are rejecting. When We are forbearing everything and giving them respite after respite, why should you show any kind of anxiety?”

Many Messengers have been treated as impostors before you, but they bore with fortitude the charge of imposture and persecution (by the disbelievers) till Our help came down to them. None has the power to change the Law of Allah,
Commentary: The “Law” referred to here is the Law of Allah concerning the conflict between the right and the wrong. According to this Law, it is essential that the righteous people should be tried for a long period to stand their test in order to prove their fortitude, their righteousness, their spirit of sacrifice and their fidelity, their firm belief in their Faith and their complete trust in Allah. For this they must pass through afflictions and difficulties in order to develop those high moral qualities which can be learnt only by going through this hard and tough course, for with these weapons alone, they are required to win the battle against un-Islam. When, according to this Law, they prove their competence, then Allah’s help will come at the right moment to support them and this help can never be brought about before its time by anyone.


and you have already received the news of what happened to the Messengers before you. However, if you find it hard to bear their aversion, then seek out, if you can, an opening into the earth, or set up a ladder to they sky so that you may bring them a Sign.
Commentary: Whenever the Holy Prophet صلى الله عليه و سلم felt that his people did not accept the Message in spite of his continuous preaching, he cherished the wish that Allah might send such a clear Sign that they should have no alternative left with them but to accept his Message. In this verse Allah has admonished His Messenger against cherishing any such desire so as to say, “Do not show impatience at their obduracy, but go on performing your mission persistently in the way and order We are laying down for it. If this mission had to be performed by means of miracles, could We not Ourselves have done so? But We know that this method is not suitable for bringing about that intellectual and moral revolution and for the establishment of that righteous society for which you have been appointed as a Messenger. If, however, you cannot endure the heart-buring caused by their indifference and rejection and if you imagine that a tangible Sign, that might appeal to them, is required to break this inert state of their minds, then you should yourself try to bring about such a Sign. You may, if you can, go deep down into the bowels of the earth or ascend up to the heavens for this purpose, but you should not expect from Us that We will fulfil this desire of yours, for there is no room for it in Our scheme.”

Had Allah willed, He would have gathered them all on guidance; so do not behave like the ignorant people.
Commentary: This is to impress that it is not the purpose of Allah that each and every human being should be forced to accept the Guidance somehow or other. Had it been so, He would have created them in such a way that they would have been righteous by birth like angels. Then there would have been no need of sending Prophets and Books and of making the Believers enter into this conflict with the disbelievers for the gradual establishment of the Way of Allah. But Allah does not desire this. On the contrary, He intends that the Truth should be presented to the people in a rational way so that those who are convinced of it may adopt it without any coercion, and then mould their characters in accordance with it to prove their moral superiority over the disbelievers. In this way they would go on attracting the best among the people toward it till they succeed in establishing the Way by virtue of their high ideals, best principles of life, pure characters and strong arguments and with resolute struggle with the disbelievers. Then Allah assures them of the guidance and help they need and deserve at any stage. But if one wishes that, instead of this natural process, Allah should adopt some supernatural method and eradicate false ideas from the minds of the people and bring in pure ones instead and establish the righteous civilization in place of the evil ones, he should know that Allah will not do this for this will be against the wisdom of the scheme of His creation of mankind. He has created mankind as a responsible being, granted him powers to exploit the things of the world and given him the freedom of action – both good and evil – and granted him a definite term for the preparation of the test and fixed the time for the declaration of the result of the test – to punish or reward according to his efforts.

Only those who listen to it accept the Message; as for the dead, Allah will raise them from the graves and they shall be brought back to (be produced in His Court).
Commentary: “Those who listen to it...” are the people whose conscience is alive and who try to judge rationally between right and wrong; who do not deliberately and obdurately lock the doors of their hearts.
“As for those who are dead...” are the people who blindly follow a way and are not ready to leave it and follow any other way even though that may manifestly be the Right Way.
Reply

جوري
06-21-2012, 09:00 PM
Originally Posted by albanianbrother
<br><br>so your disbelive what allah said in surah 6 34 saying no one can change the words of allah, so how can the gospel be changed or lost, and also your quran says go to the people of the book and their scriptures but my scriptures only condemn muhammad so who right allah who says none can change my word and o to the people of the book and check their scriptures for proof or muslims who say its not the real gospel ??? does this logic make sense brother or sister none at all so choose the gospel is unchanged and not lost and muhammad a false prophet or dont trust what your quran says??
If you won't read post number five because it is too much an intellectual enema.. have you read the Quran in totality or just the verses that you want out of context?
for instance have you come across this?

Al-Baqara (The Cow) [2:79] [RECITE]
[top] [next match]
Fawaylun lillatheena yaktuboona alkitaba biaydeehim thumma yaqooloona hatha min AAindi Allahi liyashtaroo bihi thamanan qaleelan fawaylun lahum mimma katabat aydeehim wawaylun lahum mimma yaksiboona
2:79 Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from Allah," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.

furthermore, the bible contradicts itself almost in the same breath, in the same sentence so what is there to believe? How can Abraham (P) take his only son if his 'only' son would have been Ishmael.. Wouldn't it otherwise say your preferred son? Your youngest son? Don't take your first born but that other one? It is unfortunate that the laying hands of the scribes::
<< Jeremiah 8:8 >>
New International Version (©1984)
"'How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?

didn't get to that portion in time to make the lie stick at least..
Dude.. go study some before you write, you're making a mockery of your beliefs and religion!

best,

Reply

albanianbrother
06-21-2012, 09:02 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
now tell me
how could abraham pbuh have been alive in 1948, and noah pbuh dies 2006 (after creation of adam), when all the pagans were destroyed and noah pbuh and the believers survived?
since Abraham pbuh came and found a people, including the despot king entrenched for generations in idolatry???

either the whole earth was flooded and abraham came long after,either way, don't u think someone made a mistake in their story?
thats not my question and please use bc and ad when refering to timelines if you can please and thank
but the question is how can the quran say the bible(torah and gospel) are his word and no one can change his word surah 6 34 and he say if your in doubt about what was reveled to muhammad go to the people of the book and their scriptures the bible is the only scriptures WE HAVE obey your quran go to my books and see muhammad is a false prophet or obey your religion and dont trust what allah said in his quran
or the whole earth wasn't flooded
Reply

جوري
06-21-2012, 09:04 PM
Originally Posted by albanianbrother
thats not my question and please use bc and ad when refering to timelines if you can please and thank
but the question is how can the quran say the bible(torah and gospel) are his word and no one can change his word surah 6 34 and he say if your in doubt about what was reveled to muhammad go to the people of the book and their scriptures the bible is the only scriptures WE HAVE obey your quran go to my books and see muhammad is a false prophet or obey your religion and dont trust what allah said in his quran
or the whole earth wasn't flooded
Do you read or just like a parrot repeating the same phrase over and over mindlessly?
Reply

albanianbrother
06-21-2012, 09:04 PM
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
If you won't read post number five because
what is it brother please tell me and i will look at it
Reply

جوري
06-21-2012, 09:06 PM
Originally Posted by albanianbrother
what is it brother please tell me and i will look at it
I am not your brother..
Click on your thread and read All the replies in lieu of writing the same sentence repeatedly.

best,
Reply

albanianbrother
06-21-2012, 09:09 PM
Originally Posted by WRITER
Please don't take the words out of context and don't misinterprete the verses/words of the Quran.
Here are the verses with their commentary:

33 – 36: O Muhammad, we know that what they say grieves you but it is not you whom they charge with falsehood; these wicked people are, in fact, denying the Revelations of Allah. Many Messengers have been treated as impostors before you, but they bore with fortitude the charge of imposture and persecution (by the disbelievers) till Our help came down to them. None has the power to change the Law of Allah, and you have already received the news of what happened to the Messengers before you. However, if you find it hard to bear their aversion, then seek out, if you can, an opening into the earth, or set up a ladder to they sky so that you may bring them a Sign. Had Allah willed, He would have gathered them all on guidance; so do not behave like the ignorant people. Only those who listen to it accept the Message; as for the dead, Allah will raise them from the graves and they shall be brought back to (be produced in His Court).

Commentary:
O Muhammad, we know that what they say grieves you but it is not you whom they charge with falsehood; these wicked people are, in fact, denying the Revelations of Allah.
Commentary: It is a fact that all the people of his tribe regarded the Holy Prophet صلى الله عليه و سلم truthful and honest up to the time he had not begun to recite the Revelations of Allah before them. They falsified him only when he began to deliver to them the Message of Allah. Even then, there was none who dared charge Muhammad, the man, (Allah’s peace be upon him) with falsehood; nay, even his bitterest enemies never accused him of having ever told a lie concerning any worldly matter. It was Muhammad, the Prophet, صلى الله عليه و سلم whom they charged with falsehood. So much so that even Abu Jahl, who was the bitterest of all the enemies of the Holy Prophet صلى الله عليه و سلم, never accused him of falsehood. According to a tradition related by Hadrat Ali رضي الله عنه , Abu Jahl declared during a conversation with the Holy Prophet صلى الله عليه و سلم , “We do not call you a liar but regard as false what you are presenting.” On the occasion of the Battle of Badr, Akhnas bin Shariq asked Abu Jahl in private, “There is no third person here besides us two. Tell me the truth whether you regard Muhammad to be a truthful man or a liar.” He answered, “By God, Muhammad is a truthful person and has never told a lie in his whole life, but if Bani Qusayy, who have already the privilege of being the bearers of the national flag and the providers of water to the pilgrims and the keepers of the keys of the Ka’abah, should also be acknowledged as the recipients of Prophethood, what would then be left for the rest of the Quraish?” For this very reason Allah is comforting His Prophet صلى الله عليه و سلم , saying, “It is not you whom they are rejecting as impostor but it is Our Message which they are rejecting. When We are forbearing everything and giving them respite after respite, why should you show any kind of anxiety?”

Many Messengers have been treated as impostors before you, but they bore with fortitude the charge of imposture and persecution (by the disbelievers) till Our help came down to them. None has the power to change the Law of Allah,
Commentary: The “Law” referred to here is the Law of Allah concerning the conflict between the right and the wrong. According to this Law, it is essential that the righteous people should be tried for a long period to stand their test in order to prove their fortitude, their righteousness, their spirit of sacrifice and their fidelity, their firm belief in their Faith and their complete trust in Allah. For this they must pass through afflictions and difficulties in order to develop those high moral qualities which can be learnt only by going through this hard and tough course, for with these weapons alone, they are required to win the battle against un-Islam. When, according to this Law, they prove their competence, then Allah’s help will come at the right moment to support them and this help can never be brought about before its time by anyone.


and you have already received the news of what happened to the Messengers before you. However, if you find it hard to bear their aversion, then seek out, if you can, an opening into the earth, or set up a ladder to they sky so that you may bring them a Sign.
Commentary: Whenever the Holy Prophet صلى الله عليه و سلم felt that his people did not accept the Message in spite of his continuous preaching, he cherished the wish that Allah might send such a clear Sign that they should have no alternative left with them but to accept his Message. In this verse Allah has admonished His Messenger against cherishing any such desire so as to say, “Do not show impatience at their obduracy, but go on performing your mission persistently in the way and order We are laying down for it. If this mission had to be performed by means of miracles, could We not Ourselves have done so? But We know that this method is not suitable for bringing about that intellectual and moral revolution and for the establishment of that righteous society for which you have been appointed as a Messenger. If, however, you cannot endure the heart-buring caused by their indifference and rejection and if you imagine that a tangible Sign, that might appeal to them, is required to break this inert state of their minds, then you should yourself try to bring about such a Sign. You may, if you can, go deep down into the bowels of the earth or ascend up to the heavens for this purpose, but you should not expect from Us that We will fulfil this desire of yours, for there is no room for it in Our scheme.”

Had Allah willed, He would have gathered them all on guidance; so do not behave like the ignorant people.
Commentary: This is to impress that it is not the purpose of Allah that each and every human being should be forced to accept the Guidance somehow or other. Had it been so, He would have created them in such a way that they would have been righteous by birth like angels. Then there would have been no need of sending Prophets and Books and of making the Believers enter into this conflict with the disbelievers for the gradual establishment of the Way of Allah. But Allah does not desire this. On the contrary, He intends that the Truth should be presented to the people in a rational way so that those who are convinced of it may adopt it without any coercion, and then mould their characters in accordance with it to prove their moral superiority over the disbelievers. In this way they would go on attracting the best among the people toward it till they succeed in establishing the Way by virtue of their high ideals, best principles of life, pure characters and strong arguments and with resolute struggle with the disbelievers. Then Allah assures them of the guidance and help they need and deserve at any stage. But if one wishes that, instead of this natural process, Allah should adopt some supernatural method and eradicate false ideas from the minds of the people and bring in pure ones instead and establish the righteous civilization in place of the evil ones, he should know that Allah will not do this for this will be against the wisdom of the scheme of His creation of mankind. He has created mankind as a responsible being, granted him powers to exploit the things of the world and given him the freedom of action – both good and evil – and granted him a definite term for the preparation of the test and fixed the time for the declaration of the result of the test – to punish or reward according to his efforts.

Only those who listen to it accept the Message; as for the dead, Allah will raise them from the graves and they shall be brought back to (be produced in His Court).
Commentary: “Those who listen to it...” are the people whose conscience is alive and who try to judge rationally between right and wrong; who do not deliberately and obdurately lock the doors of their hearts.
“As for those who are dead...” are the people who blindly follow a way and are not ready to leave it and follow any other way even though that may manifestly be the Right Way.

if your quran is clear as it says then when it tells me to go to the people of the book and their scriptures(the bible) if your in dobut about our revelation test it by their book and my book only condemns muhammad. so either allah is all mighty and powerful and protects his word or humans have the strength to change his words and if the quran is a perfect book use the quran alone handed down from allah to muhammad use it not tafserrs not hadiths so is the gospel changed if so men change allah words if not go test your quran with the scriptures of the people of the book then
Reply

albanianbrother
06-21-2012, 09:10 PM
Originally Posted by WRITER
Please don't take the words out of context and don't misinterprete the verses/words of the Quran. <br>
Here are the verses with their commentary:<br>
<br>
33 – 36: O Muhammad, we know that what they say grieves you but it is not you whom they charge with falsehood; these wicked people are, in fact, denying the Revelations of Allah. Many Messengers have been treated as impostors before you, but they bore with fortitude the charge of imposture and persecution (by the disbelievers) till Our help came down to them. None has the power to change the Law of Allah, and you have already received the news of what happened to the Messengers before you. However, if you find it hard to bear their aversion, then seek out, if you can, an opening into the earth, or set up a ladder to they sky so that you may bring them a Sign. Had Allah willed, He would have gathered them all on guidance; so do not behave like the ignorant people. Only those who listen to it accept the Message; as for the dead, Allah will raise them from the graves and they shall be brought back to (be produced in His Court).<br>
<br>
Commentary:<br>
O Muhammad, we know that what they say grieves you but it is not you whom they charge with falsehood; these wicked people are, in fact, denying the Revelations of Allah. <br>
Commentary: It is a fact that all the people of his tribe regarded the Holy Prophet صلى الله عليه و سلم truthful and honest up to the time he had not begun to recite the Revelations of Allah before them. They falsified him only when he began to deliver to them the Message of Allah. Even then, there was none who dared charge Muhammad, the man, (Allah’s peace be upon him) with falsehood; nay, even his bitterest enemies never accused him of having ever told a lie concerning any worldly matter. It was Muhammad, the Prophet, صلى الله عليه و سلم whom they charged with falsehood. So much so that even Abu Jahl, who was the bitterest of all the enemies of the Holy Prophet صلى الله عليه و سلم, never accused him of falsehood. According to a tradition related by Hadrat Ali رضي الله عنه , Abu Jahl declared during a conversation with the Holy Prophet صلى الله عليه و سلم , “We do not call you a liar but regard as false what you are presenting.” On the occasion of the Battle of Badr, Akhnas bin Shariq asked Abu Jahl in private, “There is no third person here besides us two. Tell me the truth whether you regard Muhammad to be a truthful man or a liar.” He answered, “By God, Muhammad is a truthful person and has never told a lie in his whole life, but if Bani Qusayy, who have already the privilege of being the bearers of the national flag and the providers of water to the pilgrims and the keepers of the keys of the Ka’abah, should also be acknowledged as the recipients of Prophethood, what would then be left for the rest of the Quraish?” For this very reason Allah is comforting His Prophet صلى الله عليه و سلم , saying, “It is not you whom they are rejecting as impostor but it is Our Message which they are rejecting. When We are forbearing everything and giving them respite after respite, why should you show any kind of anxiety?”<br>
<br>
Many Messengers have been treated as impostors before you, but they bore with fortitude the charge of imposture and persecution (by the disbelievers) till Our help came down to them. None has the power to change the Law of Allah, <br>
Commentary: The “Law” referred to here is the Law of Allah concerning the conflict between the right and the wrong. According to this Law, it is essential that the righteous people should be tried for a long period to stand their test in order to prove their fortitude, their righteousness, their spirit of sacrifice and their fidelity, their firm belief in their Faith and their complete trust in Allah. For this they must pass through afflictions and difficulties in order to develop those high moral qualities which can be learnt only by going through this hard and tough course, for with these weapons alone, they are required to win the battle against un-Islam. When, according to this Law, they prove their competence, then Allah’s help will come at the right moment to support them and this help can never be brought about before its time by anyone.<br>
<br>
<br>
and you have already received the news of what happened to the Messengers before you. However, if you find it hard to bear their aversion, then seek out, if you can, an opening into the earth, or set up a ladder to they sky so that you may bring them a Sign.<br>
Commentary: Whenever the Holy Prophet صلى الله عليه و سلم felt that his people did not accept the Message in spite of his continuous preaching, he cherished the wish that Allah might send such a clear Sign that they should have no alternative left with them but to accept his Message. In this verse Allah has admonished His Messenger against cherishing any such desire so as to say, “Do not show impatience at their obduracy, but go on performing your mission persistently in the way and order We are laying down for it. If this mission had to be performed by means of miracles, could We not Ourselves have done so? But We know that this method is not suitable for bringing about that intellectual and moral revolution and for the establishment of that righteous society for which you have been appointed as a Messenger. If, however, you cannot endure the heart-buring caused by their indifference and rejection and if you imagine that a tangible Sign, that might appeal to them, is required to break this inert state of their minds, then you should yourself try to bring about such a Sign. You may, if you can, go deep down into the bowels of the earth or ascend up to the heavens for this purpose, but you should not expect from Us that We will fulfil this desire of yours, for there is no room for it in Our scheme.”<br>
<br>
Had Allah willed, He would have gathered them all on guidance; so do not behave like the ignorant people.<br>
Commentary: This is to impress that it is not the purpose of Allah that each and every human being should be forced to accept the Guidance somehow or other. Had it been so, He would have created them in such a way that they would have been righteous by birth like angels. Then there would have been no need of sending Prophets and Books and of making the Believers enter into this conflict with the disbelievers for the gradual establishment of the Way of Allah. But Allah does not desire this. On the contrary, He intends that the Truth should be presented to the people in a rational way so that those who are convinced of it may adopt it without any coercion, and then mould their characters in accordance with it to prove their moral superiority over the disbelievers. In this way they would go on attracting the best among the people toward it till they succeed in establishing the Way by virtue of their high ideals, best principles of life, pure characters and strong arguments and with resolute struggle with the disbelievers. Then Allah assures them of the guidance and help they need and deserve at any stage. But if one wishes that, instead of this natural process, Allah should adopt some supernatural method and eradicate false ideas from the minds of the people and bring in pure ones instead and establish the righteous civilization in place of the evil ones, he should know that Allah will not do this for this will be against the wisdom of the scheme of His creation of mankind. He has created mankind as a responsible being, granted him powers to exploit the things of the world and given him the freedom of action – both good and evil – and granted him a definite term for the preparation of the test and fixed the time for the declaration of the result of the test – to punish or reward according to his efforts.<br>
<br>
Only those who listen to it accept the Message; as for the dead, Allah will raise them from the graves and they shall be brought back to (be produced in His Court). <br>
Commentary: “Those who listen to it...” are the people whose conscience is alive and who try to judge rationally between right and wrong; who do not deliberately and obdurately lock the doors of their hearts.<br>
“As for those who are dead...” are the people who blindly follow a way and are not ready to leave it and follow any other way even though that may manifestly be the Right Way.
<br><br><br>if your quran is clear as it says then when it tells me to go to the people of the book and their scriptures(the bible) if your in dobut about our revelation test it by their book and my book only condemns muhammad. so either allah is all mighty and powerful and protects his word or humans have the strength to change his words and if the quran is a perfect book use the quran alone handed down from allah to muhammad use it not tafserrs not hadiths so is the gospel changed if so men change allah words if not go test your quran with the scriptures of the people of the book then&nbsp;
Reply

جوري
06-21-2012, 09:11 PM
I suggest no one reply back to this spambot from this point on..

:w:
Reply

albanianbrother
06-21-2012, 09:15 PM
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
I am not your brother..
Click on your thread and read All the replies in lieu of writing the same sentence repeatedly.

best,
aight brother i will look at it
Reply

albanianbrother
06-21-2012, 09:18 PM
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
Do you read or just like a parrot repeating the same phrase over and over mindlessly?
i stay on topic sister others want to use other souces besides the quran to help them but if they do then the quran not clear as it claims by using such things as hadiths and tafseers
Reply

جوري
06-21-2012, 09:23 PM
Originally Posted by albanianbrother
i stay on topic sister others want to use other souces besides the quran to help them but if they do then the quran not clear as it claims by using such things as hadiths and tafseers
I am not your sister!
I'd be inclined to think there was something wrong with me if three or four of five people are leveling my accusations with evidence from both the Quran and the bible and yet I parrot the same sentence repeatedly neither reading, nor comprehending, nor challenging nor defending the allegations thrown back at me.
It is a waste of everyone's time. If your time is a waste, ours isn't!

best
Reply

albanianbrother
06-21-2012, 09:38 PM
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
I suggest no one reply back to this spambot from this point on..
im not spamming brother or sister but im just asking questions what your religion forbids discussion or question???? looks like on one can answer my question allah sends a book(torah psalms and gospel) in the quran none can change, if your in doubt about muhammad go to the people of the book and their scriptures(bible) the only scripture we have and it only condemns muhammad as a false prophet but now muslims say o its not the real book allah sent its been change but none can change allah's word and a;;ah commands in the quran if your in doubt about muhamma go to the people of the book and thier scriptures that what im doing but we can only declare him to be a false prophet so who right allah saying the gospel is not change and go to it for light and guidance or islamic theology which disagrees with the quran surah 6 34
Reply

albanianbrother
06-21-2012, 09:41 PM
i ask questions and try my best to reply to everyone but i only see hate and they say islam a religion of peace and islam is the truth but no one can question it or have discussion about it or even think that islam is not true
Reply

جوري
06-21-2012, 09:47 PM
Originally Posted by albanianbrother
i ask questions and try my best to reply to everyone but i only see hate and they say islam a religion of peace and islam is the truth but no one can question it or have discussion about it or even think that islam is not true
1- I know the time it takes to read the article in post number five, let alone all that other members have posted to challenge you or correct you or query you back-- so no you've not tried your best! You're being dishonest.
You've come here with an agenda and it is unfortunately failing. We're not mindless twits ready to imbue your crap simply because you put it out there and expect that it will go unchallenged.
2- I don't see how anyone is hateful toward you? or has even remotely used the vile foul language you used to describe the messenger when you're a guest on our forum and the least you can do is show us your so-called gentle Christian manners.
3- Islam isn't the 'religion of peace' who says that is what Islam is about? Islam is a monotheistic religion meant to teach us about the one true God, the purpose of life, how to fulfill that purpose and live productive lives for here and the hereafter. We're peaceful toward those who seek peace and will be ready to defend ourselves against those who attack. It is common sense.
4- You've not had a discussion thus far, a discussion means you're willing to receive it as you're willing to dish it out and no one so far has seen you adhere to those rules.

best,
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
06-21-2012, 09:59 PM
Greetings Albania brother. Actually the Qur'an goes perfectly in line with all the revelations and scriptures before it. It is the seal of all the same scriptures and revelations God sent to the all the previous Prophet's and Messengers before it. But please tell me Albanian brother why does the Bible include the New Testament which has nothing to do with any Prophet but was written by random men to which even Christian scholars admit that they are unsure of when it was written and exactly by whom it was written by.

It also contains concepts such as God having a son and a mother as well as the blood atonement of Christ and the trinity - NONE of which are in line with ANY scripture before it nor did ANY Prophet ever mention such concepts nor did Jesus ever teach nor mention it and nor did God ever teach nor mention such concepts but these concepts are ONLY contained in the New Testament which you take your religion from which was NOT written by ANY Prophet or Messenger but by RANDOM men at an unknown time hundreds of years after Jesus.

Do you feel satisfied and at peace taking your religion from such an unreliable book which was added to the Bible but had nothing to do with any Prophet nor God but was included anyway. But the Qur'an is in perfect alignment with every scripture and it teaches what EVERY scripture and revelation before it taught including the same message Jesus taught and that is that there is NO worthy of worship except God alone who has no partners and nor is he in need of one for all the power and might of this universe belongs to him alone and he is self sufficient.

I hope you'll have a deep think about this.
Reply

Abz2000
06-21-2012, 11:54 PM
Originally Posted by albanianbrother
so your disbelive what allah said in surah 6 34 saying no one can change the words of allah, so how can the gospel be changed
ur being silly, it's obvious that this is referring to the words that have proceeded from God, maybe it's referring to the fact that none can legitimately change it, Allah a'lam,
here's an example from the bible:
I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return,
That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
Isaiah 45:23

what does this mean to you?
can you change that fact?
i can assure you you can change the text, but it won't be His word.

but any dufus can tell you that it's possible to get any holy book and edit it, i even have a quran where they made a typographical error so they had to paste a corrected page onto that page in order to rectify the typo,
if you think no-one can change the words of the bible,
pick up a pen.
or if you think it's too difficult, find someone who's good at forging currency.

silly boy
Reply

Abz2000
06-22-2012, 12:00 AM
Originally Posted by albanianbrother
if your quran is clear as it says then when it tells me to go to the people of the book and their scriptures
because many rabbi's. priests, and others saw the signs in their own scriptures and accepted the truth when they saw it,
do a google search for Abdullah ibn salam.


When they listen to that which hath been revealed unto the messengers,
thou seest their eyes overflow with tears because of their recognition of the Truth.
They say: Our Lord, we believe. Inscribe us as among the witnesses.
Quran 5:83
Reply

~ Sabr ~
06-22-2012, 07:17 AM
Originally Posted by albanianbrother
how can prophets before muhammad disgree with muhammad if muhammad is a prophet ?
Greetings albanianbrother.

I know you are spamming, but I feel compelled to answer your post nevertheless.


Say (O Muslims), "We believe in Allah and that which has been sent down to us and that which has been sent down to Ibrahim (Abraham), Isma'il (Ishmael), Ishaq (Isaac), Ya'qub (Jacob), and to Al-Asbat [the offspring of the twelve sons of Ya'qub (Jacob)], and that which has been given to Musa (Moses) and 'Îsa (Jesus), and that which has been given to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to Him we have submitted (in Islam)."
[Qur'aan, Chapter #2, Verse #136]

Or say you that Ibrahim (Abraham), Isma'il (Ishmael), Ishaq (Isaac), Ya'qub (Jacob) and Al-Asbat [the offspring of the twelve sons of Ya'qub (Jacob)] were Jews or Christians? Say, "Do you know better or does Allah (knows better ... that they all were Muslims)? And who is more unjust than he who conceals the testimony [i.e. to believe in prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم when he comes, as is written in their Books. (See Verse 7:157)] he has from Allah? And Allah is not unaware of what you do."
[Qur'aan, Chapter #2, Verse #140]
Reply

Eric H
06-22-2012, 07:26 AM
Greetings and peace be with you albanianbrother; and welcome to the forum;

We are guests on an Islamic forum, and as such I believe we should respect their beliefs even though we may disagree with some of them. The same God hears all our prayers, and in both of our scriptures it says that God chooses us, it may seem strange that the same God would chooses us through different paths.

Our greatest commandments are to love God and our neighbours, and even to pray for those we might consider enemies. The parable of the Good Samaritan describes how even the priests and the Levites get the greatest commandmetns wrong and this also makes their religion wrong.

In the spirit of praying for a greater interfaith tolerance and respect.

Eric
Reply

albanianbrother
06-23-2012, 07:06 PM
Originally Posted by Eric H
We are guests on an Islamic forum, and as such I believe we should respect their beliefs even though we may disagree with some of them
your afriad to preach the truth i came to have good disucssion and PREACH THE TRUTH not to conform with their beliefs
Reply

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