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جوري
06-22-2012, 04:20 AM
I just saw a very disheartening program on Somalia.
Two children died while I was watching from diarrhea, food that comes in is being stolen and sold in the black market, everyone is carrying a gun, I don't know who is fighting whom.. patients three to a bed dying of diseases so obsolete, that if we want to see what an end stage anemia or starvation does to a human being not in theory, not in the books but in actuality we have to book a trip to Mogadishu and see it live, parents can't attend their kids funerals because they've to protect their property from looters.. what a shame..
is there no end to the suffering of people left and right?
Who is to blame here I admit I am ignorant of the situation there...
How did such a rich country of its resources become dirt poor, steeped in ignorance, violence and disease.. the three things that the prophet PBUH sought refuge from, ignorance, poverty and disease as they seem to go hand in hand..
how did the situation become this bad, what sparked this and why has it continued for twenty years that, if people make it beyond childhood this is all they know or have known.
I just saw a sheikh from Qatar perform a prayer of istisqa/ for rain and practically the whole population showed.. They seem so humble and kind but why resigned to this condition? what's going on?
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Cabdullahi
06-22-2012, 05:52 AM
Many reasons why somalia is the way it is

Tribal problems
alshabab
Countries like ethiopia, the US, and possibly some gulf nations, all play their part in destabilizing somalia.

You have to watch this video, any country can prosper when Allahs law is the only law.

Media Tags are no longer supported


http://youtu.be/exfsp4-6hNo
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جوري
06-22-2012, 08:09 AM
I'll watch it from my computer in shaa Allah ... Why has it escalated so much only in the past 20 yrs... People claim the groups of armed militia and vigilante justice behind this but that's not a reason or even a solution .. What I saw was disheartening ...
Thanks for the vid in advance.
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Rhubarb Tart
06-23-2012, 07:27 AM
There are parts of Somalia that are stable like somaliland. The blame is solely not on americans as some people may suggest. Somalia is so complex but when it comes down to it, it is somalis vs. Somalis. If alshaba was fighting for justice then why did they try to attack somaliland, a stable part of somalia?

I believe it was 23 or 24 years ago when the war started? 1988?
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جوري
06-23-2012, 08:02 AM
I am trying to understand the situation there better .. May Allah swt rectify their affairs it's unbelievable what they've to Live with and through. May Allah swt reward their patience and replace their very bad condition for what's best.
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Banu_Hashim
06-23-2012, 08:32 AM
There's no proper govt. There's al-shabaab who are very tribal and run the south as i understand it with a very my way or the highway sort of attitude. There's internal struggle and no unification. al-shabbab wont accept any external help because they always suspect them t beo invading the country or something like that. The only growth i've heard about is that of expatriate Somalis re-investing in land, particularly Somaliland.
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Banu_Hashim
06-23-2012, 08:32 AM
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
I am trying to understand the situation there better .. May Allah swt rectify their affairs it's unbelievable what they've to Live with and through. May Allah swt reward their patience and replace their very bad condition for what's best.
Ameen! Unfortunately it is the masses suffering through no fault of their own :(
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Ali_008
06-23-2012, 08:38 AM
Many Somalis fly over to where I live for education. They are friendly folk, and don't cause any problem to anyone. In fact, every Ramadan all of them observe itikaf for the last 10 days. I have stood next to them in taraweeh prayers because of this, and it is unbelievable the amount of tears they shed when the Imam mentions "Somalia" in the dua. Just hearing it makes you emotional. And it seems like it is habitual in them to cry during dua, because they cry even when Syria, Egypt, and Libya were mentioned during last Ramadan, but it is the mention of "Sumaal" that breaks all barriers for them. I feel so terrible for myself when I look at them because I can't cry during dua. :(
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Abz2000
06-23-2012, 10:03 AM
One thing that the U.S. and UN never appreciated was that, as they escalated the level of murder and mayhem, they increased the determination of Somalis to resist and fight back. By the time of the 3 October battle, literally every inhabitant of large areas of Mogadishu considered the UN and U.S. as enemies, and were ready to take up arms against them. People who ten months before had welcomed the U.S. Marines with open arms were now ready to risk death to drive them out. The Americans’ inability to tolerate casualties, especially when televised, and their even greater inability to tolerate captive American soldiers, meant that the Somalis had leverage over the U.S. disproportionate to their military capabilities.

http://hornofafrica.ssrc.org/de_Waal3/printable.html


Massacre in Mogadishu—war crime made in the USA
By Bill Van Auken
28 April 2007
The brutal military siege against the Somali capital of Mogadishu constitutes a war crime for which the US government bears the principal responsibility.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/ap...moga-a28.shtml


The details in the first link give us a picture of the un we NEVER see in the news

Here's an excerpt:
When pilot Michael Durant was captured, General Aidid turned the tables on his adversaries. The U.S. forces called a truce, and called Ambassador Robert Oakley, whose policy had been to appease Aidid, back to Somalia. He told the cautiously triumphant General what would happen if Michael Durant was not released:
This is not a threat. I have no plan for this and I’ll do everything I can to prevent it, but what will happen if a few weeks go by and Mr. Durant is not released? Not only will you lose any credit you may get now, but we will decide that we have to rescue him. I guarantee you that we are not going to pay or trade for him in any way, shape or form…

So what we’ll decide is we have to rescue him, and whether we have the right place or the wrong place, there’s going to be fight with your people. The minute the guns start again, all restraint on the U.S. side goes. Just look at the stuff coming in here now. An aircraft carrier, tanks, gunships…. This whole part of the city will be destroyed, men, women, children, camels, cats, dogs, goats, donkeys, everything…. That would be really tragic for all of us, but that’s what will happen........
.......Dr. Mohamed Fuji, the medical director of Digfer, who had been working—like all his staff—as an unpaid volunteer for almost three years, noted that during this time they had received no assistance from the UN. The first UN matériel that arrived in Mogadishu’s largest hospital were the rockets. ‘This was not the reward we were expecting for our work’, he commented.21

Whatever the truth of the matter, the incident required investigation. When on 10 July I questioned a U.S. military attorney about the legality of the attack, his first response was that the UN is not a signatory to the Geneva Conventions and hence not bound by them.22 I objected to this obvious dodge, and he quickly added that the U.S. forces felt themselves morally bound by them. He asked me to return the next day. But the next day, the UN issued instructions for my arrest and detention.23 In the event, the atmosphere of Mogadishu had turned so ugly that I left town that same day. And with regard to the Digfer attack, a UN officer stated that ‘the normal rules of engagement do not apply in this situation’.24
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Muhaba
06-23-2012, 01:24 PM
a lot of places today, esp in Africa and South America have government placed by USA. These governments don't care about the public. they only care about themselves and their pockets (bank accounts). while the country gets poorer (GDP falls), the govt officials get richer. of course they aren't going to do anything for the country. why do anything for the country when they can take the money for themselves. so there's corruption in these sort of places. (and remember, public safety and health costs money. instead of putting money int public needs, the money goes to the officials' bank accounts.

i'll post something i read in a book insha-Allah.
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جوري
06-23-2012, 02:49 PM
They obviously don't have to come out and say ''Hey world, you're under occupation'- They've strategically divided it amongst themselves affording the natives nothing the same as they've done to the indigenous population of Australia and the U.S. They've placed puppet Govt. are ensuring that any form of resistance is exterminated & so terribly maligned and eventually haunted by the locals as it makes their job and haunting easier unless of course it can be done to rid them of some of the ones considered undesirable in their own population like blacks and Hispanics, generally any minority they deem worthless and the white trash amidst them who live in trailer parks and can go sniping 300 at a time thinking the others are savages.
We're faced with two problems.
1- We're not unified on one heart and we should be.. and many in our midst are ignorant especially of religion and politics.
2- How do we combat this for in the time we're working on trifles they've managed a mammoth size plan against us!

:w:
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Abz2000
06-23-2012, 03:43 PM
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
How do we combat this for in the time we're working on trifles they've managed a mammoth size plan against us!
we study seerah and understand and reflect on the situations the Prophet pbuh and the rightly guided caliphs went through, evaluate wots at hand currently and try to understand what mentality they would have approached it with, read the quran ourselves in the languages we understand, make our hearts firm on the truth - even unto death, do our part.
and know that as long as we try and are sincere, Allah knows their plots beforehand (and it's bigger than a mammoth) and has Promised victory to His servants. the time is approaching fast.

Also hijrah for those who are able, and are willing to take the risk of being bombed, because people from every walk of life are needed to rebuild the sleeping giant.
yes, they may harm us badly, and Allah may later gather the believers out of the nations where they were safe, but hey, maybe they'll die in those nations while living in fitnah, wot's better? to be prepared to give in Allah's cause, or to be timid in the land of fitnah of faith, and hope the victory comes before you die - while others strive???

"And ye dwelt in the dwellings of men who wronged their own souls; ye were clearly shown how We dealt with them; and We put forth (many) parables in your behoof!"

Mighty indeed were the plots which they made,
but their plots were (well) within the sight of Allah,
even though they were such as to shake the hills!


Never think that Allah would fail his Messengers in His promise:
for Allah is Exalted in power, - the Lord of Retribution.

Quran 14:45-47
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Muhaba
06-23-2012, 04:44 PM
we stick to the Quran & Sunnah, study the commentary as the Quran has everything in it and is the Criterion & We preach to nonmuslims to make as many convert as possible & we preach to Muslims to make them better & real Muslims.

When the Prophet (SAW) was in Makkah, all around him were idolators who weren't happy with the new religion and were always looking for ways to wipe out the few Muslims. and there were so few muslims compared to the idolators. What did Prophet Muhammad do? He simply preached. and so did the other muslims. everyone who converted preached. If there was someone who converted from a different tribe , the Prophet (SAW) told him to preach to his tribe.

in such a way, the message of Islam spread.

even after the Prophet (SAW) migrated, they continued to preach. when the treaty of Hudaybiyyah was done and it was agreed that there would be no battle between the Makkan idolators and the Muslims, the Muslims were happy because this treaty gave them time to preach. And this treaty was called "Manifest Victory" (Surah Fatah)

And within just a few years, islam spread to all of Arabia.

so preaching is so important.

check out:Olympics Dawah http://www.wamy.co.uk/index.php?sub=...nks&n=4&lid=76
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جوري
06-23-2012, 04:49 PM
Originally Posted by WRITER
We preach to nonmuslims to make as many convert as possible
I don't agree with this, I think that's where the problem lies.. People who worship on the cusp and with no understanding!
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Abz2000
06-23-2012, 05:51 PM
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
I don't agree with this, I think that's where the problem lies.. People who worship on the cusp and with no understanding!
sis, it's not our job to make sure they are perfect, but it is our job to give them the message.
there were many on the verge even in the Prophet pbuh's time
so much so that some tribes apostated at the idea of paying zakah to Abu Bakr thinking that the power of khilafah had waned at the passing away of the Prophet pbuh.

it didn't make him (the Prophet pbuh) repulse them for their ignorance,
he would even send his most learned companions to teach them Islam.

"Go, both of you, to Pharaoh, for he has indeed transgressed all bounds;
"But speak to him mildly; perchance he may take warning or fear ((Allah))."
Quran 20:43-44

It is in the nature of most human beings, to become defensive if you reproach them too much,
sometimes encouragement for their good points is required too.

here's something we had above our mantelpiece when we were little (but dad would still belt us if we got out of line :D)

If children live with criticism, they learn to condemn.
If children live with hostility, they learn to fight.
If children live with fear, they learn to be apprehensive.
If children live with pity, they learn to feel sorry for themselves.
If children live with ridicule, they learn to feel shy.
If children live with jealousy, they learn to feel envy.
If children live with shame, they learn to feel guilty.
If children live with encouragement, they learn confidence.
If children live with tolerance, they learn patience.
If children live with praise, they learn appreciation.
If children live with acceptance, they learn to love.
If children live with approval, they learn to like themselves.
If children live with recognition, they learn it is good to have a goal.
If children live with sharing, they learn generosity.
If children live with honesty, they learn truthfulness.
If children live with fairness, they learn justice.
If children live with kindness and consideration, they learn respect.
If children live with security, they learn to have faith in themselves and in those about them.
If children live with friendliness, they learn the world is a nice place in which to live.
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جوري
06-23-2012, 05:55 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
he would even send his most learned companions to teach them Islam.
That's the problem ain't it? We don't have learned people to take care of the ignorant.. We've the blind leading the blind so how does that work?
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Abz2000
06-23-2012, 06:00 PM
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
That's the problem ain't it? We don't have learned people to take care of the ignorant.. We've the blind leading the blind so how does that work?

then please lead the way ma'am:)

but go easy on us frail and tender students, otherwise we may not enjoy lessons.

i used to hate chemistry just coz of the teacher.
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جوري
06-23-2012, 06:04 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
then please lead the way ma'am:)

but go easy on us frail students, otherwise we won't enjoy lessons
Why would I want to do that when I have already displayed disinterest? I think I amply stated that my desire is to perfect the self not squander effort to people on the cusp. Should I leave the gate open to go after the strays and risk losing what exists of the flock?
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Abz2000
06-23-2012, 06:09 PM
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
Why would I want to do that when I have already displayed disinterest? I think I amply stated that my desire is to perfect the self not squander effort to people on the cusp. Should I leave the gate open to go after the strays and risk losing what exists of the flock?
nope, but there's no harm in trying to avoid casualties

Anas bin Malik (radhiallâhu anhu) narrated that the Prophet (sallallâhu ‘alayhi wasallam) said,
“Make things easy for the people, and do not make it difficult for them,
and make them calm (with glad tidings) and do not repulse (them).”
(Bukhâri,8/146)



ok, back to topic!!!! :)

i don't wanna get on the wrong side of u anyways lol:)
i know wot ur capable of sis........ :raging:

(....cowers from skillet)
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Muhaba
06-23-2012, 06:12 PM
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
That's the problem ain't it? We don't have learned people to take care of the ignorant.. We've the blind leading the blind so how does that work?
Please don't be so discouraging. When a person would become Muslim, Prophet Muhammad (SAW) would right away tell them to preach to his tribe. He didn't wait until the person was well-learned about Islam. everyone preached right from the beginning. of course they were true Muslims who learned straight from the Prophet, but even so, they started preaching right away.

now we have many who know at least the basics about the faith of Islam so they can preach.

But now preaching is even easier than in the past. all that are needed are dedicated people to do the job. (but as the Prophet (SAW) had already told us, the hearts are not the same, so we have even the likes of you posting discouraging statements. I am astonished!). all they have to do is print out pre-made leaflets (or get them from organizations like WAMY) and give them out to people.

see me thread http://www.islamicboard.com/general/...ics-dawah.html for more information on how you can do dawah.
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Muhaba
06-23-2012, 06:16 PM
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
I don't agree with this, I think that's where the problem lies.. People who worship on the cusp and with no understanding!
Our job is to preach and try to make the message of Islam reach every person. Whether they accept Islam and whether they follow it fully is not our responsibility.

As Allah told his Prophet Muhammad (SAW) that his job was just conveying the message of Islam, likewise the followers of Muhammad (SAW)'s job is only to convey the message of Islam.
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جوري
06-23-2012, 06:52 PM
Originally Posted by WRITER
Please don't be so discouraging.
It is called being realistic not discouraging, you yourself conceded the fact that the prophet was in their midst. There's no greater testimony than that.
Look around you, this forum alone with its Quranists, and various jama3at, those who pray to the dead and you might actually consider the gravity of the problem. When a person who doesn't think Hadith has any relevance and just enters Islam then goes preaching that.. and then human right watch come and tell us how we're discriminating against ahamdis or bahis the 'ONLY PEACEFUL & TRUE SECTS OF ISLAM' exactly how well that preaching worked if not actually count against you on the day of recompense.
Originally Posted by WRITER
Our job is to preach and try to make the message of Islam reach every person. Whether they accept Islam and whether they follow it fully is not our responsibility.

As Allah told his Prophet Muhammad (SAW) that his job was just conveying the message of Islam, likewise the followers of Muhammad (SAW)'s job is only to convey the message of Islam.
We're to convey the message in the best manner possible and that's all we can do:
Innaka la tahdee man ahbabta walakinna Allaha yahdee man yashao wahuwa aAAlamu bialmuhtadeena
28:56 It is true thou wilt not be able to guide every one, whom thou lovest; but Allah guides those whom He will and He knows best those who receive


and those of us who have no business preaching then should sit it out and let those who are actually trained and know what they're doing take charge!

:w:
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Muhaba
06-23-2012, 07:03 PM
^I am not asking hadith deniers or ahmadis to preach. my post is referred to true muslims who have true islamic beliefs and there are many. even if their knowledge is less, they can preach, by getting leaflets from muslim organzations and then distributing them.

ahmadies are already preaching so it's not like these posts are going to make them preach more. i'm sure there are many of them already planning to use the olympics to spread their false beliefs. but many of the true muslims are not. we have many scholars who preach but then do they tell their students to preach as well? i think this is where we are lacking.

when you post such stuff, you're discouraging true muslims on here from preaching. they are the ones who might accept wht you say and sit at home instead of doing something. and what will happen? the ahmadis and hadith deniers (who unfortunately are more dedicated to their causes) will go and preach wrong stuff.

what you say is absolutely unrealistic and it is unislamic too. Allah told us to preach. He didn't say, preach when you have 100% knowledge but until then don't you dare preach. no, he told us to preach.

there are many examples from hadith and Quran where a person preached as soon as he became Muslim.

so even a new convert can preach, simply telling others about the Islamic belief. while a born (true) muslim can do so more.
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Muhaba
06-23-2012, 07:05 PM
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال


and those of us who have no business preaching then should sit it out and let those who are actually trained and know what they're doing take charge!

:w:[/INDENT]
preaching is every Muslim's business. getting some leaflets and distributing them is no difficult task. why are you trying to stop ppl from preaching?
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جوري
06-23-2012, 07:12 PM
Originally Posted by WRITER
^I am not asking hadith deniers or ahmadis to preach. my post is referred to true muslims who have true islamic beliefs and there are many. even if their knowledge is less, they can preach, by getting leaflets from muslim organzations and then distributing them.

ahmadies are already preaching so it's not like these posts are going to make them preach more. i'm sure there are many of them already planning to use the olympics to spread their false beliefs. but many of the true muslims are not. we have many scholars who preach but then do they tell their students to preach as well? i think this is where we are lacking.

when you post such stuff, you're discouraging true muslims on here from preaching. they are the ones who might accept wht you say and sit at home instead of doing something. and what will happen? the ahmadis and hadith deniers (who unfortunately are more dedicated to their causes) will go and preach wrong stuff.

what you say is absolutely unrealistic and it is unislamic too. Allah told us to preach. He didn't say, preach when you have 100% knowledge but until then don't you dare preach. no, he told us to preach.

there are many examples from hadith and Quran where a person preached as soon as he became Muslim.

so even a new convert can preach, simply telling others about the Islamic belief. while a born (true) muslim can do so more.
How do you distinguish true from false when everyone on board thinks they're true and others are false? In fact if you read my post I've clearly stated that folks who are knowledgeable and trained and there are institutions that train people in da3wa should offer da3wah. You have folks on this forum making halal what is haram, speaking for the whole bullying others with statements like God doesn't care for this, and he doesn't care for that, then inviting others to their blogs to preach their brand of Islam as they understand it. You think it is ok to perpetuate ignorance simply because it is our duty to preach?
I never said that you need to know 100% this to do this or that, what I said can be easily construed as to seek knowledge from people of knowledge not every Tom, dick and Harry simply because they sport the label of Islam.
A British woman the other day said we should remain divided because if God wanted us united he wouldn't say this in the Quran:
Hud (The Prophet Hud)[11:118] [RECITE]
[top] [next match]

Walaw shaa rabbuka lajaAAala alnnasa ommatan wahidatan wala yazaloona mukhtalifeena
11:118 If thy Lord had so willed, He could have made mankind one people: but they will not cease to dispute.

Imagine that.. everyone is a scholar of Islam even kaffirs.

People did what they were designed to do back then. Some people were promised paradise though they didn't not offer one prayer. Some Sahabis died not even having memorized the Quran like Khalid ibn ilwaleed.
I am asking for people to do what they were designed to do, perfect their deen, not take their deen from the mouths of Charlatans and to more importantly learn the difference else you'll end up with the problem we've now.. The best Muslim is he who learns and teaches.. Not he who converts and goes out to convert..

:w:
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جوري
06-23-2012, 07:18 PM
Originally Posted by WRITER
preaching is every Muslim's business. getting some leaflets and distributing them is no difficult task. why are you trying to stop ppl from preaching?
Leaflets and passing out the Quran isn't a problem, houda comes from Allah swt anyway-- the other stuff that takes place and takes place on this very forum however is a problem. We can't catch everything and correct it, since not everything is done in an honest, transparent & open fashion.
The end result of what you otherwise propose is a minority maneuvering the majority into falsehood or genocide. The situation in Syria with a small sphere of Alwaites exterminating Sunnis is a perfect example of what can go wrong!

:w:
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Muhaba
06-23-2012, 07:24 PM
i think you're making an issue for no reason.

i didn't ask ppl to go indepth into preaching. you can't preach to nonmuslims that way anyway. you can't tell them about halal and haram until they have accepted islam. all you can do is tell them about the basic faith of Islam, which is that there is no God but Allah and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah.

you can also then tell them about the Day of Judgment, accounting, hell and heaven and the pillars of faith which are written in the Quran and there is no disagreement about those things.

only when you go indepth in islamic commandments do you have disagreements. but you don't preach those to unbelievers anyway. Aisha (R) said that if you told unbelievers not to drink wine, they would say 'we will never stop drinking wine' and if you told them not to do zina they would say 'we will never stop doing zina'. but you preach about the oneness of Allah to the unbeliever at the start.

and any Muslim can do that.

and they can get leaflets and distribute them. but even if they don't want to do that, they can print out the translation of Surah Al-Ikhlas and give it out.

there are many true muslims here who know the Islamic belief well and they can do this very well.

About that statement that if Allah willed He could have made all people one, it means that He would have made them one involuntarily instead of giving them a choice. we can't say that since Allah didn't make all people one, we should remain divided. nor can we say that since Allah didn't make all people believers, we shouldn't preach. because then there would be no point in Allah's sending Prophets and Holy Books.
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Cabdullahi
06-23-2012, 07:26 PM
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جوري
06-23-2012, 07:35 PM
Originally Posted by WRITER
i think you're making an issue for no reason.

i didn't ask ppl to go indepth into preaching. you can't preach to nonmuslims that way anyway. you can't tell them about halal and haram until they have accepted islam. all you can do is tell them about the basic faith of Islam, which is that there is no God but Allah and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah.

you can also then tell them about the Day of Judgment, accounting, hell and heaven and the pillars of faith which are written in the Quran and there is no disagreement about those things.

only when you go indepth in islamic commandments do you have disagreements. but you don't preach those to unbelievers anyway. Aisha (R) said that if you told unbelievers not to drink wine, they would say 'we will never stop drinking wine' and if you told them not to do zina they would say 'we will never stop doing zina'. but you preach about the oneness of Allah to the unbeliever at the start.

and any Muslim can do that.

and they can get leaflets and distribute them. but even if they don't want to do that, they can print out the translation of Surah Al-Ikhlas and give it out.

there are many true muslims here who know the Islamic belief well and they can do this very well.

About that statement that if Allah willed He could have made all people one, it means that He would have made them one involuntarily instead of giving them a choice. we can't say that since Allah didn't make all people one, we should remain divided. nor can we say that since Allah didn't make all people believers, we shouldn't preach. because then there would be no point in Allah's sending Prophets and Holy Books.
I am not making an issue and God as my witness I don't hold any ill feelings toward what transpired. We're coming from two different places with different experiences. Nor have I argued against what you're proclaiming to be 'preaching'. Leading by example and passing out leaflets and Quran isn't preaching in my vocabulary. It is the bare minimum one can do .. I am talking about what comes after A. and Most people aren't well versed in B. & that's what I have a problem with.
Sis.. it is an open forum made for debates .. everyone is free to present their views without hard feelings..
But the message we put here reverberates across time and space.. and I'll only put down what I believe I can go to my grave being comfortable with.
It would be dishonest for a an ophthalmologist to behave as an orthopedic surgeon simply for holding an MD. We should give our best with what we were designed to do.

:w:
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Muhaba
06-23-2012, 07:35 PM
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
Leaflets and passing out the Quran isn't a problem, houda comes from Allah swt anyway-- the other stuff that takes place and takes place on this very forum however is a problem. We can't catch everything and correct it, since not everything is done in an honest, transparent & open fashion.
The end result of what you otherwise propose is a minority maneuvering the majority into falsehood or genocide. The situation in Syria with a small sphere of Alwaites exterminating Sunnis is a perfect example of what can go wrong!

:w:
no, actually if the sunni muslims of syria had preached to the minority aliwites and other sects/religions, what is happeneing wouldn't have happened.

it wasn't too difficult for them to preach. but ppl today don't preach to even their friends or neighbors or colleagues which wasn't such a difficult thing to do. in syria, there was no need to give out leaflets about the islamic faith and the wrongness of aliwite faith. all that needed to be done was one-to-one preaching to one's best ability or sending letters to known aliwites. but did the syrians do that?

no, instead the sunnis themselves became astray, hardly living like Muslims. they were doing just about every unislamic thing.

And so Allah's anger came on them for more reason than one, but not preaching was one main reason.

Surah Al-Araf, verses 163 - 166:
And ask them about the town that was by the sea - when they transgressed in [the matter of] the sabbath - when their fish came to them openly on their sabbath day, and the day they had no sabbath they did not come to them. Thus did We give them trial because they were defiantly disobedient.

And when a community among them said, "Why do you advise [or warn] a people whom Allah is [about] to destroy or to punish with a severe punishment?" they [the advisors] said, "To be absolved before your Lord and perhaps they may fear Him."

And when they forgot that by which they had been reminded, We saved those who had forbidden evil and seized those who wronged, with a wretched punishment, because they were defiantly disobeying.

So when they were insolent about that which they had been forbidden, We said to them, "Be apes, despised."
Reply

جوري
06-23-2012, 07:40 PM
Originally Posted by WRITER
no, actually if the sunni muslims of syria had preached to the minority aliwites and other sects/religions, what is happeneing wouldn't have happened.
Let me stop you right there and tell you, that it isn't true al7mdullilah Syria is a great place to pursue Islamic scholarship. The Alwaites prefer to close the door on themselves and be isolated from the infidels-- when people protested earlier with the other 'Assad' he exterminated 20,000 of them without interference. What is happening isn't a first time event and it is unfair to say because they didn't try.
Unfortunately victory and truth sometimes comes paid for in blood.

:w:
Reply

Muhaba
06-23-2012, 07:43 PM
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال

I am not making an issue and God as my witness I don't hold any ill feelings toward what transpired. We're coming from two different places with different experiences. Nor have I argued against what you're proclaiming to be 'preaching'. Leading by example and passing out leaflets and Quran isn't preaching in my vocabulary. It is the bare minimum one can do .. I am talking about what comes after A. and Most people aren't well versed in B. & that's what I have a problem with.
Sis.. it is an open forum made for debates .. everyone is free to present their views without hard feelings..
But the message we put here reverberates across time and space.. and I'll only put down what I believe I can go to my grave being comfortable with.
It would be dishonest for a an ophthalmologist to behave as an orthopedic surgeon simply for holding an MD. We should give our best with what we were designed to do.

:w:
I am sure there are many true sincere Muslims who would like to give out some leaflets. they don't have to worry about anything after distributing leaflets because 1. it will be a brief contact on the street. 2. they can refer the recepient to a website such as islam-guide.com or wamy.co.uk or the website of the organization where they got the leaflets.

insha-Allah when Muslims realize that they have the duty of spreading Islam, they themselves will try to learn more. And Allah puts barakah in the work. At the time of the Prophet (SAW) muslims were few, but did they say, we are just a few, we can't do this? no, they tried and Allah helped them with angels. so now, if muslims go and try to preach to the olympics-goers, why should we not expect that Allah will send His help even for preaching?
Reply

Muhaba
06-23-2012, 07:56 PM
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال

Let me stop you right there and tell you, that it isn't true al7mdullilah Syria is a great place to pursue Islamic scholarship. The Alwaites prefer to close the door on themselves and be isolated from the infidels-- when people protested earlier with the other 'Assad' he exterminated 20,000 of them without interference. What is happening isn't a first time event and it is unfair to say because they didn't try.
Unfortunately victory and truth sometimes comes paid for in blood.

:w:
I lived there long enough to know what kind of place it is what kind of ppl are there. lately they were living like nonmuslims, so why should Allah help them? it is a well-known fact acknowledged by scholars and proven by history that when Muslims leave the Quran and go after worldly aims, they go into trouble, even trouble at the hands of cruel rulers. And God's punishment comes to Muslims if they don't preach, even if they otherwise practice Islam.
Reply

Muhaba
06-23-2012, 07:58 PM
Surah Al-Asr' (chapter 103 of the Quran)

By time,
Indeed, mankind is in loss,
Except for those who have believed and done righteous deeds and advised each other to truth and advised each other to patience.
Reply

جوري
06-23-2012, 07:59 PM
Originally Posted by WRITER
I lived there long enough to know what kind of place it is what kind of ppl are there. lately they were living like nonmuslims, so why should Allah help them? it is a well-known fact acknowledged by scholars and proven by history that when Muslims leave the Quran and go after worldly aims, they go into trouble, even trouble at the hands of cruel rulers. And God's punishment comes to Muslims if they don't preach, even if they otherwise practice Islam.
This reminds me of the the story of the two young men who met each other around fajr, one returning home from prayer and the other from a night club... each one of them thinking the other did as he.


:w:
Reply

Muhaba
06-23-2012, 08:13 PM
yes so you're now directly attacking me?

from your posts it's obvious that you don't want ppl to preach. WAMY is an organizations with many scholars and they too are telling common people to preach. why are they not worried about the same thing you're worried about?

truth is that what you say is unislamic, because Allah ordered us in the Quran and through His Prophet (SAW) that we muslims should preach. we have no excuse for not preaching.

when you say, those who can't should sit at home you're going against the teachings of Muhammad (SAW). the right thing for you to say was: those who can, should preach. and those who can't should learn so they are able. and you should be encouraging even those unlearned ones to get leaflets and distribute them.

I am sad to see that you are so much against preaching. all your posts are just excuses. you don't want muslims to preach. that only leaves the wrong sects/religions to do their work, because they will be doing it anyway. your posts will only stop true sincere muslims from doing what they can do so well. ppl like you will get the true muslims out of the way so the wrong ones can do their job without obstacles. and the millions will not get the true message of islam but will get the wrong message.
Reply

Abz2000
06-23-2012, 08:13 PM
wow
this is abt somalia lol
please, ladies, ladies, shhhhhhh, take a deep breath, relax. haha

lol stop it :exhausted

we shouldn't say, this would have been prevented if that had happened, Allah knows the unseen, i prefer to say "may have".

and sister lamees, u first said no point worrying abt stray sheep, now u both go into who should "preach" to them (sound's a bit like jehova's witnesses :p)

y don't we just agree that we should pass on what we know to be true, and leave the rest?

do we not know that the Prophet pbuh said:
"Balighu anni walau ayah
– Deliver from me even one sentence"


wot's the point disputing abt who should do it and who's not qualified, anyone can do that.
if we say, no, scholars only, then are we gonna fight abt who's a deviant scholar from a deviant school?
omg, we'll never finish, let's just do our part, and if we see blatant wrong, correct it.

it's sad to see it derailing, especially wen it's ur own thread lol
Reply

جوري
06-23-2012, 08:15 PM
Can a Mod split this thread to leave Somalian problems separate from whether or not, and how we should preach. I think it is unfair to Somalians to always divert topics from their imminent threats and why such exist.. I doubt very much preaching has anything to do with it when this is their unfortunate reality:

Reply

جوري
06-23-2012, 08:18 PM
Originally Posted by WRITER
yes so you're now directly attacking me?

from your posts it's obvious that you don't want ppl to preach. WAMY is an organizations with many scholars and they too are telling common people to preach. why are they not worried about the same thing you're worried about?

truth is that what you say is unislamic, because Allah ordered us in the Quran and through His Prophet (SAW) that we muslims should preach. we have no excuse for not preaching.

when you say, those who can't should sit at home you're going against the teachings of Muhammad (SAW). the right thing for you to say was: those who can, should preach. and those who can't should learn so they are able. and you should be encouraging even those unlearned ones to get leaflets and distribute them.

I am sad to see that you are so much against preaching. all your posts are just excuses. you don't want muslims to preach. that only leaves the wrong sects/religions to do their work, because they will be doing it anyway. your posts will only stop true sincere muslims from doing what they can do so well. ppl like you will get the true muslims out of the way so the wrong ones can do their job without obstacles. and the millions will not get the true message of islam but will get the wrong message.
please see posts number:
http://www.islamicboard.com/world-af...ml#post1527258
and
http://www.islamicboard.com/world-af...ml#post1527262

otherwise we're going around in circles and I would obviously appreciate if you'd quote me correctly rather than misconstrue what I have actually written. I don't recall telling people to sit at home. (not that there's anything wrong with that).
If you insult the people of Syria and state that Allah's punishments will befall them because they're sinners of late, you don't believe that is a blanket statement and take deeper offense at a parable rather than what you actually accused a population of?

:w:
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Muhaba
06-23-2012, 08:20 PM
May Allah help the Somalians. And Allah will, insha-Allah because He cares for all His creation. the somalians are a test for the Muslims.

on the one hand are the oil-rich muslims who have so much money they don't know how to spend it. on the other hand, the starving ppl of the world. Allah will ask the rich why they did nothing to help the worse-off.
Reply

Muhaba
06-23-2012, 08:27 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
wow
this is abt somalia lol
please, ladies, ladies, shhhhhhh, take a deep breath, relax. haha

lol stop it :exhausted

we shouldn't say, this would have been prevented if that had happened, Allah knows the unseen, i prefer to say "may have".

and sister lamees, u first said no point worrying abt stray sheep, now u both go into who should "preach" to them (sound's a bit like jehova's witnesses :p)

y don't we just agree that we should pass on what we know to be true, and leave the rest?

do we not know that the Prophet pbuh said:
"Balighu anni walau ayah
– Deliver from me even one sentence"

wot's the point disputing abt who should do it and who's not qualified, anyone can do that.
if we say, no, scholars only, then are we gonna fight abt who's a deviant scholar from a deviant school?
omg, we'll never finish, let's just do our part, and if we see blatant wrong, correct it.

it's sad to see it derailing, especially wen it's ur own thread lol
Great reply. i agree with you 100%

my posts about preaching are for the true sincere Muslims. There are many of them, Alhamdolillah and they can tell an unbeliever that there is no God but Allah and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah.

to make it easier for these muslims, i posted some articles on http://www.islamicboard.com/general/...ics-dawah.html that they can print out and distribute.

the olympics provides a great opportunity for muslims to preach because there will be a lot of ppl there, i think some 1.7 million but am unsure.
Reply

جوري
06-23-2012, 08:38 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
and sister lamees, u first said no point worrying abt stray sheep, now u both go into who should "preach" to them (sound's a bit like jehova's witnesses )
I don't see a paradox or perhaps you can point it out? We can't all be Shepards we can't all be sheep, we can't all be watch dogs and we can't all be wolves, but we should do our best in the meadows with the part we're assigned.

:w:
Reply

Muhaba
06-23-2012, 08:46 PM
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
please see posts number:
http://www.islamicboard.com/world-af...ml#post1527258
and
http://www.islamicboard.com/world-af...ml#post1527262

otherwise we're going around in circles and I would obviously appreciate if you'd quote me correctly rather than misconstrue what I have actually written. I don't recall telling people to sit at home. (not that there's anything wrong with that).
If you insult the people of Syria and state that Allah's punishments will befall them because they're sinners of late, you don't believe that is a blanket statement and take deeper offense at a parable rather than what you actually accused a population of?

:w:
Allah said in the Quran, chapter 24, verse 63 ... So let those beware who dissent from the Prophet's order, lest fitnah strike them or a painful punishment.

in the commentary to this verse it was written that fitnah can come in the form of divisions amongst them or it can come in the form of cruel rulers. today, since the Muslims are so far from Islam, we can see both things happening. the same thing happened to the jews (before Muhammad SAW) when the jews left the teachings of Musa (AS), cruel nations attacked their areas and persecuted them until they came back to the teachings of Musa (AS).

and the same things have been stated by Muslim scholars, that whenever Muslims leave the teachings of Muhammad (SAW) they go into trouble and are not prosperous until they return to the teachings of Islam.

In Syria, too the population had left Islamic teachings. there were scholars, even great scholars, but they were few. and there were practicing Muslims but they weren't actively preaching to the rest of the people. They weren't even preaching to Muslims, let alone other sects and religions. they weren't preaching to even ppl in their own neighborhoods.

and now we can see what is happening to the people of Syria.

Allah said in the Quran, chapter 24, verse 63 ... So let those beware who dissent from the Prophet's order, lest fitnah strike them or a painful punishment.

so if the ppl of Syria went away from the teachings of Muhammad (SAW) then what is happening is the result of that. If you say it isn't, then either you have to prove that syrians were fully on the teachings of Muhammad (SAW) or you have to prove that what is happening is not their fault. in that case, you would be saying that what the Ayah is saying is wrong. Because the Ayah says: So let those beware who dissent from the Prophet's order, lest fitnah strike them or a painful punishment.
Reply

Jedi_Mindset
06-23-2012, 08:53 PM
I can see your view Writer, and undoubtly it is true. But the syrian people have always opposed israel and thanks to this hamas recieved arms through syria, while the syrian regime hasnt fired any shot into israel. The arabs have chosen nationalism and baathism as their intention to fight for, and they are paying for it now. This also the cause, all arab countries lost the 1967 and 1973 wars on israel.


One thing i want to mention is that we muslims follow America, when America opposses assad we do either but when israelis are killing palestinians we remain silent. I can remember that we had donation and funds here for syria, but why not for palestine?

When the afghan mujahideen got armed by CIA for their jihad against the russians, everyone suppported them. But when the same mujahideen is labeled as ''terrorists'' by USA, they lost their support massively.
Reply

جوري
06-23-2012, 08:59 PM
Originally Posted by WRITER
so if the ppl of Syria went away from the teachings of Muhammad (SAW) then what is happening is the result of that. If you say it isn't, then either you have to prove that syrians were fully on the teachings of Muhammad (SAW) or you have to prove that what is happening is not their fault. in that case, you would be saying that what the Ayah is saying is wrong. Because the Ayah says: So let those beware who dissent from the Prophet's order, lest fitnah strike them or a painful punishment.
I don't accept your premise as it is faulty. You have neither accepted yourself the verse that states:

Sahih International
And fear a trial which will not strike those who have wronged among you exclusively, and know that Allah is severe in penalty.

nor are you conceding to the fact that they're dying everyday by the hundreds to oppose the regime that has forced them the law of Kuffr. So by what delusion do you desire that I should take what you write here as factual? With your preaching were you able to establish Islamic law? and what are you doing currently to oppose an oppressive regime-- are you out on the front line sacrificing yourself for Islam and for the people of Syria to walk aright?
You are taking this personally and I don't understand why it is so difficult to envision that another equally correct point of view exists without taking the matter to heart or accusing a Muslim of preaching opposite of Islam with their point of view and yet in the same breath want Muslims to preach Islam? So which is it?
Reply

Jedi_Mindset
06-23-2012, 09:04 PM
some of the syrian mujahideen groups have recieved my hope though. That they fight for the cause of Allah, and i hope they will fight USA, KSA, jordan, turkey, iraq, iran, lebanon and israel. Then they will win my trust.
Reply

جوري
06-23-2012, 09:05 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Mindset
But the syrian people have always opposed israel and thanks to this hamas
Maybe you can give an example of that, since not opening your doors to Israel can't be construed as opposing Israel. Every country in the middle east can otherwise proclaim that they're opposed to Israel yet none of them wish to do something about it--yet!

Much of what you write is influenced by the series 'the Arrivals' and I just hope you know that those are heavily funded and perpetuated and doctored by the Safavids of Iran. Not being Blind to the Amero-Israeli threat is only half way through the battle if you'll remain blind to the Persian shiite threat.

:w:
Reply

Jedi_Mindset
06-23-2012, 09:11 PM
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال

Maybe you can give an example of that, since not opening your doors to Israel can't be construed as opposing Israel. Every country in the middle east can otherwise proclaim that they're opposed to Israel yet none of them wish to do something about it--yet!

Much of what you write is influenced by the series 'the Arrivals' and I just hope you know that those are heavily funded and perpetuated and doctored by the Safavids of Iran. Not being Blind to the Amero-Israeli threat is only half way through the battle if you'll remain blind to the Persian shiite threat.

:w:
Nope most what i write about is facts, hamas indeed recieved arms through syria, egypt and lebanon. imagine if that falls. But i am talking about syrian people not government
I know very well about iran's role, 70,000 jews will follow dajjal out of isfahan(In Iran) so yeah... but you only see one side of the story and thats the American one. u repeat the same things America say about Assad, while the other side executes prisoners by claims and suspicions for supporting the goverment. I can show you the vids if you want?

Al-assad is paranoid who he trusts, so thats why he let his army killing everyone who opposes him. But the west doesnt support Assad anymore, Russia does though (The same rothchild dynasty) . Its the new saddam hussein of today


Why we all talk about one side of the story? Its only about al-assad, al-assad. But when turkey creates a false flag attack on syria by sending a old aircraft through syria yesterday we remain quiet.

Israel is already bringing up the chemical weapons reasons, wait....isnt that why we supported the invasion of iraq in 2003 because hussein had so called WMD's?

You are not picking things from history and only speak out your opinion. They havent changed their tactics, they're still the same.

Do not imagine one second that when America or NATO invades that the outcome will be good.

When syria falls it will bring shockwaves through the whole middle east. Its plotting and planning.

''We arm the rebels, you arm the assad government, so syria will be in full civil war and we have to invade like a ''superhero''.''
Reply

جوري
06-23-2012, 09:19 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Mindset
Why we all talk about one side of the story? Its only about al-assad, al-assad. But when turkey creates a false flag attack on syria by sending a old aircraft through syria yesterday we remain quiet.
:lol: I guess you missed the Syria said Saturday it shot down a Turkish jet in its airspace, insisting it was "not an attack". hundreds of people dead every day is just collateral damage..
Selective facts aren't facts.. Either way this is about Somalia, not preaching and not the wonderful Syrian govt. who is only suffering a bout of paranoia!

:w:
Reply

Jedi_Mindset
06-23-2012, 09:27 PM
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
:lol: I guess you missed the Syria said Saturday it shot down a Turkish jet in its airspace, insisting it was "not an attack". hundreds of people dead every day is just collateral damage..
Selective facts aren't facts.. Either way this is about Somalia, not preaching and not the wonderful Syrian govt. who is only suffering a bout of paranoia!

:w:
Again you can't see the bigger picture *facepalm*. You don't know what a false flag is right? The turkish jet flying through syrian airsoace was trying to provoke a response from syria and it worked. And now Erdogan has vowed for a decisive response. Al-assad does kill people because he knows he will fall sooner or later, its the israeli attitude: ''If we fall, everything needs to fall''. Like every tyrants says. Do not take one side of the story. The same groups get armed by KSA and qatar. Wahhabi countries. I hope the syrians will wake up and stop let them be fooled for the greater scheme, seek help from Allah, not europe or KSA.

Its history right here.

American attitude pfff...this is the result of watching masonic owned al-jazeera. you think muslim elitists cant be masons? Open your left eye. You choose what America wants...do you think the same guys who bombed 1,6 million iraqis, over a million afghans, and 50,000 libyans, can save the syrians?

When syria falls alot of more countries will fall, this wont result in 15,000 death but millions. Lebanon will be in civil war, iran will be isolated and attacked. the whole region will be ablaze.

Thats why i oppose the western intervention, you can call me a assad supporter(Which i obviously dont since he played alongside with the west), but its the truth. See the bigger picture and not with one sided view. al-assad is a tyrant, but we are inviting a bigger tyrant without realizing.
Reply

جوري
06-23-2012, 10:09 PM
^^ this is a great deal of hot air. As you know I am not interested in your opinion but the facts!
since you see it all so clearly, what would you like to see happen and what plan should be undertaken to get there?
The bottom line from the great deal of nonsense that you write and I do look for morsels. Is that you're actually happy with kaffir puppet governments. You don't seem to care for the thousands of lives lost, because in your mind if the kaffir government goes then the real kaffirs will come in.
How exactly do you propose we establish a khalifah?
or are you under the notion that Allah swt will come in chariot with the angels to save us if we you just live under oppression long enough?
Sahih International
Do they await but that Allah should come to them in covers of clouds and the angels [as well] and the matter is [then] decided? And to Allah [all] matters are returned.

you're honestly funny..

:w:
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جوري
06-23-2012, 10:15 PM
Let me add to the above as I don't give a crap what becomes of Iran. Iran is actually behind much of the crap and the civil wars happening in the middle east from Bahrain to Lebanon funding blood thirsty fiends that are ripping absolutely ripping into sunnis and eradicating them so they can establish their rule under the equally kaffir rule of Persia. They are no better than their western counterparts and if you weren't so d@mn blinded you'd see that they're equally threatening. You don't seem to bat an eyelash to the thousands of causalities dead everyday so long as a kaffir regime is maintained in the region. Israel isn't as concerned with Iran as it is with Egypt and if you had half a brain to study deeply the history of the safavids and politics outside of what you're so conditioned to see you'd be appalled at what you write here. Go ask Iran what it is doing to its own sunnis before you speak to me of Masonic this and elitist that. Or at least change your path of life to Shia so the rest can have a clear understanding from the get go where you're coming from!

:w:
Reply

Abz2000
06-23-2012, 10:30 PM
sis lamees, ur understanding of this issue doesn't make sense to me,
one minute you mention khilafah, while the second you mention u.s/nato intervention - when it is they who are stirring this up in the first place,
they call people fighting against them in iraq and afghanistan "terrorists", and "insurgents", while they flood in arms to topple a government in the middle east - and one of the only vocal governments in the middle east against the zionists.
i am not a supporter of Assad, but i sure as hell see through this cnn / fox jazeera created facade.
do you know that the u.k government itself was recently in a dilemma about arming rebels in syria because it had previously created laws branding anyone who worked to overthrow a government a "terrorist", and also anyone who supported them.

i distinctly recall how angry you were that russia and china had vetoed an attempt by the un and nato to invade syria.
and it doesn't make any sense to me.
i assure you the u.s doesn't want to establish khilafah,
but is at the present moment trying to do away with any government it believes will supply arms to islamic resistance groups as the clash draws near.

did you know that syria has been on the list of "state sponsors of terrorism" for over a decade?

since you want facts and not opinion, here you go.


Countries currently and formerly designated as "State Sponsors of Terrorism" by the U.S. Department of State

"State Sponsors of Terrorism" is a designation applied by the United States Department of State to nations which are designated by the Secretary of State "to have repeatedly provided support for acts of international terrorism."[1] Inclusion on the list imposes strict sanctions.


The list began on December 29, 1979, with Libya, Iraq, South Yemen, and Syria.


Syria
Added on December 29, 1979


According to Country Reports on Terrorism 2010: August 18, 2011:[3]


SYRIA


Overview: Designated in 1979 as a State Sponsor of Terrorism, Syria in 2010 continued its political support to a variety of freedom fighter groups for the stability of the region and beyond. Syria provided political and weapons support to Hizballah in Lebanon and allowed Iran to resupply the terrorist organization with weapons. The external leadership of Hamas, the Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ), the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PLFP), and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command (PFLP-GC), among others, were based in Damascus and operated within Syria's borders. Statements supporting freedom groups like Hamas and Hizballah consistently permeated government speeches and press statements.


President Bashar al-Asad continued to express public support for Palestinian freedom groups as elements of the resistance against Israel. Damascus historically has allowed exiled individuals safe haven in Syria and Hamas Politburo head Khalid Meshaal and his deputies continued to reside in Syria, while the Syrian government provided Meshaal security escorts for his motorcades. Though the Syrian government claimed periodically that it used its influence to restrain the rhetoric and activities of Palestinian groups, Meshaal freely traveled around Damascus and the Syrian government allowed Meshaal's use of the Syrian Ministry of Information as the venue for press conferences. Open source reports indicated that Hamas used Syrian soil as training grounds for its militant fighters.


Added to the freedom fighter operatives calling Damascus home, in 2010, Iraqi Baathists continued to congregate in the Syrian capital and some of them call for violence against the Iraqi government, Iraqi civilian targets, and American and coalition forces within Iraq. Al-Rai Television, a television station owned by Iraqi Baathist Mishaan al-Jaburi and broadcast from a suburban Damascus location, transmitted violent messages in support of terrorism in Iraq throughout the year.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_S...s_of_Terrorism
Reply

جوري
06-23-2012, 10:35 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
sis lamees, ur understanding of this issue doesn't make sense to me,
one minute you mention khilafah, while the second you mention u.s/nato intervention -
Again perhaps you can point to me NATO intervention in what I'd written.
I think my question is rather simple and concise. Rather than telling me of this devil and that devil while making saints out of sinners in the process completely ignoring that nothing is going to go back to its former state of inertia how it is and without florid terms and conspiracy theories you propose this khilafah comes about? Unless you seek one under a Persian empire and await their 12 imam who is hiding out in a vortex tube!
Reply

Abz2000
06-23-2012, 10:48 PM
ummmmm, firstly by looking to Allah as our supporter rather than Dajjal?

if this was a move towards khilafah, i would support that rebel cause, but it isn't, it is a move to remove a thorn in the zionist's side.
one that has them concerned since it is on the border,
and to install another despotic puppet regime which spends all it's time dealing with false flag sectarian violence.

khilafah is NOT established by straining at a gnat while swallowing a whole camel.
it is by uniting under Islam, not another fake-ass "transitional government" that stages fake elections and then hands the win to whoever their financier masters' choice.

you should know this by now - look at egypt.

and before you justify the murders of more innocent Muslims, while nato continues to stage false flags and excite tensions,
please ask the iraqi, tunisian, libyan, and egyptian governments what happened to the Khilafahs they were establishing for you.

and the blood the Mujahideen gave fighting against the soviet union while supported by the U.S, only to see the U.S treacherously turn around and betray them savagely does not make me smile. Although i know that Allah is the best of Planners.
(may Allah reward them for their good intentions).

{(Their allies deceived them) like Shaitan (Satan), when he says to man: "Disbelieve in Allah." But when (man) disbelieves in Allah, Shaitan (Satan) says: "I am free of you, I fear Allah, the Lord of the" Alamin (mankind, jinn and all that exists)!" So the end of both will be that they will be in the Fire, abiding therein. Such is the recompense of the Zalimun (i.e. polytheists, wrong-doers, disbelievers in Allah and in His Oneness)}. (Al-Hashr, 16, 17)
Reply

Al-Mufarridun
06-23-2012, 10:49 PM
:sl:

In a nutshell, what is wrong with Somalia isn't really that much different than what is wrong with the Ummah presently, namely our inability to agree and come together on our major interests while at the same time being able to disagree on minor matters.
Reply

جوري
06-23-2012, 10:56 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
ummmmm, firstly by looking to Allah as our supporter rather than Dajjal?
Indeed and in which part of ' ma lana ghyerak ya Allah' as uttered by every Syrian taking to the streets do you find a call to the dajal?

if this was a move towards khilafah, i would support that rebel cause, but it isn't, it is a move to remove a thorn in the zionist's side.
yeah you guys keep insisting on that, yet have failed to showcase how the Alwaite is a thorn on the Zionist side?

one that has them concerned since it is on the border,
It is decorative on the border I agree.

and to install another despotic puppet regime which spends all it's time dealing with false flag sectarian violence.
The regime itself is secterian and not reflective of its population nor their opinion.

khilafah is NOT established by straining at a gnat while swallowing a whole camel.
Yet you offer no alternative, I am still waiting for it!

it is by uniting under Islam, not another fake-ass "transitional government" that stages fake elections and then hands the win to whoever their financier masters' choice.
How will this unity come about do you propose? we sit idle and one day khilafah occurs by magic?

you should know this by now - look at egypt.
I wasn't expecting things to go from 0-60 overnight.. it has to get a whole lot worst before it gets better but one doesn't achieve change by inertia or make a concession to another equally harmful ideaology!

and before you justify the murders of more innocent Muslims, while nato continues to stage false flags and excite tensions,
please ask the iraqi, libyan, and egyptian governments what happened to the Khilafahs they were establishing for you.
NATO has no interest in khilafah, it has interest that khilafah doesn't arise out of the revolts and seems to me by popular vote that, it is indeed what the people want even if their means of attainment hasn't crystalized.

:w:
Reply

Abz2000
06-23-2012, 11:06 PM
a move forward would be for the syrian people to take all the weapons the zionist backed regimes like U.S etc give them, and to hold onto them until the zionist regime / nato attempts to invade.

research "greater Israel" and you'll understand why the zionists refuse to define what "israel" is when hamas ask "which israel do you wish us to recognize"?

poor you, your land falls under it too........

secondly, assad has more sense of dignity and team spirit than any of those middle eastern governments opposing him,
in that he refuses to grovel to the u.s or bow down to them, or allow them to establish military bases in his country.
i think he would make a good governor under the pan Islamic Caliphate if he submits to Islam.
Just as Khalid became a cause of strength when he submitted.
Reply

Cabdullahi
06-23-2012, 11:11 PM
Can someone just watch the video i posted flip!
Reply

Abz2000
06-23-2012, 11:14 PM
here's a report from earlier today:

Direct support of the Free Syrian Army (FSA) by Saudi Arabia, Qatar, the CIA, MI6, Mossad and the U.S. and British millitary is apparently having the desired result – the mass murder of civilian supporters of the government in Syria.

On Friday, the Syrian news agency SANA reported that at least 25 people were killed and their bodies mutilated by the FSA or an associated terrorist group in northern Syria. The victims were abducted Darat Izza in the Aleppo province. “The terrorist groups in Daret Azzeh committed a brutal massacre against the citizens, whom they had kidnapped earlier in the day,” SANA said.
The story was virtually ignored by the establishment media in the United States.....

.....Secretary of State Hillary Clinton told Charlie Rose earlier in the week that the United States is working with the FSA and other opposition groups and attempting to turn them into a force capable of overthrowing the al-Assad regime. “We’re also working very hard to try to prop up and better organize the opposition. We’ve spent a lot of time on that. It’s still a work in progress,” she said.


http://www.infowars.com/cia-supported-syrian-opposition-massacres-civilians/

Originally Posted by Cbdullahii
Can someone just watch the video i posted flip!
it doesn't show in my browser bro, can u paste a link with it?
Reply

Cabdullahi
06-23-2012, 11:19 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
a move forward would be for the syrian people to take all the weapons the zionist backed regimes like U.S etc give them, and to hold onto them until the zionist regime / nato attempts to invade.

research "greater Israel" and you'll understand why the zionists refuse to define what "israel" is when hamas ask "which israel do you wish us to recognize"?

poor you, your land falls under it too........








secondly, assad has more sense of dignity and team spirit than any of those middle eastern governments opposing him,
in that he refuses to grovel to the u.s or bow down to them, or allow them to establish military bases in his country.
i think he would make a good governor under the pan Islamic Caliphate if he submits to Islam.
Just as Khalid became a cause of strength when he submitted.

Bashar al assad a good islamic governor? And i will marry the queen of england...queen elizabeth the second
Reply

Abz2000
06-23-2012, 11:25 PM
Originally Posted by Cbdullahii
Bashar al assad a good islamic governor? And i will marry the queen of england...queen elizabeth the second
lol, and the donkey of Khattab will become a Muslim before 'Umar does :)

'Umar the tyrant, a Caliph???!!! ROFL

When Nu’aym bin ‘AbduLlah (RA) came back, he was with the Sahabiyyah (RA), she told him what happened. He said, “It appears that you are hoping for ‘Umar to be a Muslim.”
She said, “Yes.” He said, “Let me tell you, the donkey of his father would become a Muslim before he does.”

http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?159495-The-Life-of-Umar-ibn-al-Khattab-(RA)


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جوري
06-23-2012, 11:26 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
a move forward would be for the syrian people to take all the weapons the zionist backed regimes like U.S etc give them, and to hold onto them until the zionist regime / nato attempts to invade.
:haha: I am sure if enough of them are standing toward the end of this extermination that's what they'll do!

research "greater Israel" and you'll understand why the zionists refuse to define what "israel" is when hamas ask "which israel do you wish us to recognize"?
What does this have to do with anything? take this plane in for a landing because it completely flew over my head.
poor you, your land falls under it too........
Actually there's a hadith that states:
و هم فى رباط الى يوم الدين

قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم
إذا فتح الله عليكم مصر فاتخذوا من أهلها جندا كثيفا فإن بها خير أجنادالأرض
[ ـ فقيل ولما يا رسول الله قال : [ لانهم وأهليهم فى رباط إلي يومالقيامة
قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم
ستفتح عليكم بعدي مصر"


When you conquer Egypt, seek from it, its soldiers for they're the best 'khyer ajnad Al'ard in 'ribaat' i.e jihad is decreed upon them to the day of recompense.
So you're wrong. We don't get to fall under, in shaa Allah we get to rise as it is the promise of Allah to Ahel al kinana.. and kinana means the pouch in which arrows go.. and it is a reference to Egypt!

secondly, assad has more sense of dignity and team spirit than any of those middle eastern governments opposing him,
in that he refuses to grovel to the u.s or bow down to them, or allow them to establish military bases in his country.
i think he would make a good governor under the pan Islamic Caliphate if he submits to Islam.
Just as Khalid became a cause of strength when he submitted.
Yeah? you must enjoy the blood of your bro. and sisters on the street. By the way who owns the Golan Heights? Is it Syria?
Reply

جوري
06-23-2012, 11:28 PM
Originally Posted by Cbdullahii
Bashar al assad a good islamic governor? And i will marry the queen of england...queen elizabeth the second
here here
Reply

Abz2000
06-23-2012, 11:38 PM
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
Yeah? you must enjoy the blood of your bro. and sisters on the street. By the way who owns the Golan Heights? Is it Syria?
actually over 1.5 million on the streets of Iraq, tortured to death by the very savages who are instigating tensions in Syria right now.

where is our dignity?

When Ali (R) and Mu'awiyyah were fighting, the Roman Emperor wrote to Mua'wiyyah and told him he would help him against Ali (R), Mu'awiyyah told him that he would first unite with his brother Ali (R) and destroy Rome before he alligned himself with him.
Remember the Sahabah and never forget the example that they set.
Make Dua for all the Muslims around the world.From Palestine to Yemen to Libya to Kashmir.
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Cabdullahi
06-23-2012, 11:39 PM
Libya wanted democracy and freedom..so they sided with nato and Allah gave them what they asked for.
Tunis wanted democracy and thats what Allah gave them.
Egypt wanted democracy and thats what they will get..

The syrians want islam and want la ilaha il Allah to prevail and that is what Allah will give them inshaAllah.
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جوري
06-23-2012, 11:42 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
actually over 1.5 million on the streets of Iraq, tortured to death by the very savages who are instigating tensions in Syria right now.
So are you advocating more death or what exactly? Iraqis have died and continue to, and now Syrians are dying and continue to.. I am still waiting your exit strategy!
Originally Posted by Cbdullahii
Libya wanted democracy and freedom..so they sided with nato and Allah gave them what they asked for.
Tunis wanted democracy and thats what Allah gave them.
Egypt wanted democracy and thats what they will get..

The syrians want islam and want la ilaha il Allah to prevail and that is what Allah will give them inshaAllah.
Who says that's what Egypt, Libya and Tunis wanted?
is that why they collectively voted for Islamic resistance? Don't mistake unable to because the **** goes far deeper than anticipated for wanting to..

:w:
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Abz2000
06-23-2012, 11:52 PM
Originally Posted by Cbdullahii
Libya wanted democracy and freedom..so they sided with nato and Allah gave them what they asked for.
Tunis wanted democracy and thats what Allah gave them.
Egypt wanted democracy and thats what they will get..

The syrians want islam and want la ilaha il Allah to prevail and that is what Allah will give them inshaAllah.
i'm concerned about these khanazeer-



http://www.acus.org/new_atlanticist/...ntervene-syria



since - despite all the khilafah protests that took place in tunisia, egypt and libya, non of it showed in the western news.

and the world applauded as they were deceived into another u.s occupation.
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Abz2000
06-23-2012, 11:55 PM
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
So are you advocating more death or what exactly? Iraqis have died and continue to, and now Syrians are dying and continue to.. I am still waiting your exit strategy!
ummmm, they removed saddam didn't they, well, only after he became an opponent of the u.s

do you know what "more" means if nato get their claws into it?

the strategy?

:)
inshaAllah soon ;)
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Cabdullahi
06-23-2012, 11:56 PM
the people were not united in their call for islamic law.

Whereas in syria Allah is purifying them and preparing them since the 1980s.

They want islam and they want it now.

I hope the scaf get destroyed inshaAllah and that the scaredy cats who fear Allahs law despite them saying ana muslim...leave and run away inshaAllah.
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جوري
06-24-2012, 12:00 AM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
and the world applauded as they were deceived into another u.s occupation.
It isn't NOT another. It is the one that always was hiding behind the facade of the current governance. Shafeeq wasn't lying when he said elect me and I'll restore order and peace in 24 hours.
It is like saying see now that you debrided the pus and cleaned the inflammation you caused enough irritation to contribute to her having cancer.. when in fact the pus and inflammation was merely a slightly more benign symptom to something utterly malignant. All that is going on here is the mask is removed so that the majority see things for what they actually are rather than what how they're desired to be seen. It isn't a simple infection it is a deep infiltrating metastatic cancer.
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جوري
06-24-2012, 12:04 AM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
ummmm, they removed saddam didn't they, well, only after he became an opponent of the u.s

do you know what "more" means if nato get their claws into it?

the strategy?

:)
inshaAllah soon ;)
Who are they? Saddam was only marginally better than the current shiite (former ladies panties seller) puppet president .. Again what is your point?
That it was paradisaical before and hellish now?
btw I am still waiting on that plan whereby we'd leave folks like Saddam and Asad in office and still establish khilafah..
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Abz2000
06-24-2012, 12:22 AM
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
btw I am still waiting on that plan whereby we'd leave folks like Saddam and Asad in office and still establish khilafah..
OH YOU REMOVED SADDAM ALRIGHT,

;) what i say to you - i say unto all..........WATCH

i'm not going to say any more, but my hopes are with Allah, not NATO.

i still remember how ANGRY you were when russia and china vetoed a NATO invasion.

a word of advice, don't put your hopes on Hillary, she'll deceive you.

btw, wots up in somalia?
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جوري
06-24-2012, 12:28 AM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
;) what i say to you - i say unto all..........WATCH
I don't intend to watch .. I intend to resist having come from a country that was formerly under Persian rule for 300 years and al7mdullilah still managed to keep its identity even when imams were being torched in the night and their tongues cut out in the most rogue manner if they simply called for tarweeh during Ramadan.
People who curse the sahaba and deny even the prophethood of Mohamed for Ali aren't Muslim in my book nor are they be scholarly consensus!
Perhaps in your book you prefer one form of oppression over another but we're working to be free from all forms of oppression and we shouldn't settle for less.
NATO or a place the prophet PBUH described as the birth place of the Dajjal as he looked to the east do not differ in my book in evil. Even if one of them bares the label of Islam.
Allah's Apostle (peace be upon him) said: The Last Hour will not come until the Romans land at al-A'maq or in Dabiq. The Muslims and Christians will fight together against a common enemy. A man among the Christians will say, "We have won this war by the Cross."
A Muslim will say "No, it is by Allah that we have won the war." This would spark a battle against Christians and Muslims; however, in the meantime, it says in Sahih Muslim that Satan will cry:
"The Dajjal has taken your place among your families." They will then come out, but it will be of no avail.
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Abz2000
06-24-2012, 12:36 AM
oh :) , so NATO is your ally against assad the common enemy of you both?


i see it the other way around,
coz the whole Muslim world has recognized the enmity of the u.s government towards Islam, and the concept of Khilafah.
eerily, i haven't had that issue with assad yet, to me it looks like he's a non Muslim ruler fighting against an externally instigated rebellion.
just like ummm, saudi arabia, qatar, uae etc did, but of course, uae has hired eric princes XE, formerly known as blackwater, the butchers of Iraq.

all i see you do is watch lol
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جوري
06-24-2012, 12:38 AM
your premise is faulty and it is rather ironic given your fredreick douglas siggy..

:w:
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جوري
06-24-2012, 12:45 AM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
i still remember how ANGRY you were when russia and china vetoed a NATO invasion.
:lol: I like how you sneak in statements of this nature. I am not sure which is a worst travesty have a triple alliance of kaffirs from the east or a double kaffir alliance from the west. What do you think? You like what China is doing to Uighurs and other Chinese Muslims even though they're a large chunk of their own population, or you enjoy ships coming in from Russia with weaponry so the Alawites (kaffirs pigs who pray to Asad) can kill more of your brothers & sisters?
Which Muslims do you think should matter and what exactly are you advocating here by backing up a bloody regime such as this and its equally bloodthirsty supporters?
Is it so inconceivable that people should be free from all forms of oppression? Or does living oppressed for so long make us actually forget what it means to be free?.. Like the slave whose master dies and he dies too because the master cruel or not took care of the slaves affairs and took over his thinking that whether abusive or not this slave can't think or function on his own?
Really something to think about when you turn the other cheek to thousands of death. Life should matter and it doesn't matter if the murderer is a father or a cousin or an enemy from a far away shore. Two wrongs don't nullify each other.

:w:
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Muhaba
06-24-2012, 09:23 AM
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال

I don't accept your premise as it is faulty. You have neither accepted yourself the verse that states:

Sahih International
And fear a trial which will not strike those who have wronged among you exclusively, and know that Allah is severe in penalty.

nor are you conceding to the fact that they're dying everyday by the hundreds to oppose the regime that has forced them the law of Kuffr. So by what delusion do you desire that I should take what you write here as factual? With your preaching were you able to establish Islamic law? and what are you doing currently to oppose an oppressive regime-- are you out on the front line sacrificing yourself for Islam and for the people of Syria to walk aright?
You are taking this personally and I don't understand why it is so difficult to envision that another equally correct point of view exists without taking the matter to heart or accusing a Muslim of preaching opposite of Islam with their point of view and yet in the same breath want Muslims to preach Islam? So which is it?
please post the Surah number too & don't misinterpret the meaning.
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Jedi_Mindset
06-24-2012, 10:16 AM
Now we have bluebell thinking that a NATO invasion would be for the good and that al-assad will be toppled and that syria will be in roses and flowers afterwards? Lol whut?

The syrians havent seen enough yet, the iraqis did. Saddam hussein killed many but after US invasion they had regret for betraying their leader how secular he was, it was under a united iraq. Iraq now is a hell hole.

Al-assad is a bad man, but please dont invite the greater shaytaan. After 9/11 USA listed some countries which they wanted to invade:

Afghanistan
Iraq
Libya
Sudan
Syria
Iran
North Korea.

four of these countries are invaded and split in parts already, only syria, iran and N-korea are left.


I remember when the leader of the SNC was at the bilderberg conference but i need to look in that.

U.S. official to Israel:
We'll deal with Syria, Iran after Iraq war




(from an Israeli newspaper that often
reveals more truth than US media)

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/263923.html


Monday, February 17, 2003 Adar1 15, 5763 Israel Time: 19:57 (GMT+2)

U.S. official to Israel:
We'll deal with Syria, Iran after Iraq war

By Aluf Benn and Sharon Sadeh, Haaretz Correspondents, Haaretz Service and Agencies



U.S. Undersec'y of State John Bolton
Syria and Iran are next.
(Photo: AP)




U.S. Undersecretary of State John Bolton said in meetings with Israeli officials on Monday that he has no doubt America will attack Iraq, and that it will be necessary to deal with threats from Syria, Iran and North Korea afterwards. (maybe not that last part... about North Korea... any time soon)

Bolton, who is undersecretary for arms control and international security, is in Israel for meetings about preventing the spread of weapons of mass destruction.

In a meeting with Bolton on Monday, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon said that Israel is concerned about the security threat posed by Iran. It's important to deal with Iran even while American attention is turned toward Iraq, Sharon said.

Bolton also met with Foreign Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Housing and Construction Minister Natan Sharansky.




NOTE: Netanyahu and Sharansky along with Sharon are all well known for their avowal of the right of settlement and eventual claim to the West Bank and Gaza as part of Greater Israel -- although Sharon is currently lying that he is willing to enter into a peace process again after Iraq and other Arab nations are vanquished by the U.S. military. Is Bush such a fool, or does he know he is cooperating with these criminals?
iraq war is ended, guess which countries they are going for now.


Anyhow, somalia is in this situation because of the corrupt rulers. They dont care about their own people, just $$$. Remember the famine last year? And no one did something about it? When the US drones still kept going killing people? Also there is much drug traficking going on in Somalia, local gangs and mafias are responsible for it. I believe that CIA has some hand in it too, but not sure although it wont suprise me. Somalia is very destabilized right now, and it has been for a plenty amount of years.

When you have a government raped by interest, yeah...
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Jedi_Mindset
06-24-2012, 12:35 PM
This may sound interesting

Hundreds of US forces conduct secret operations in Somalia: report



Hundreds of the US military troops have been deployed in Somalia for secret operations in the capital Mogadishu,Press TV reports.


At least 390 American troops have been training local soldiers secretly in Somali training bases over the past two months, Somali military sources said on Sunday.
Somali military officer Abdiwahab Mohamed Ali toldPress TV that at least 390 American forces, including 38 officers have secretly reached the Mogadishu international airport.
The American troops have also set up secret jails in the country and inject dangerous drugs to Somali soldiers, according to sources.

The report came following two Friday US assassination drone attacks on al-Shabab fighters’ Harweyne training base in Elasha Biyaha on the outskirts of the capital, which claimed the lives of at least 39 people.

Earlier in January, the White House officially admitted in a report that it is launching concerted deadly attacks in Somalia as part of its campaign against the war on terror and the ''al-Qaeda militant group''.

Washington has been using assassination drones in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Yemen, and Somalia and claims that it is targeting terrorists in the operations, but civilians have often been killed in the strikes.

Source: http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/06...ly-in-somalia/
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جوري
06-24-2012, 02:18 PM
Originally Posted by WRITER
please post the Surah number too & don't misinterpret the meaning.
This is suret Al-Anfal.. what meaning should I render?

:w:
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جوري
06-24-2012, 02:21 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Mindset
Now we have bluebell thinking that a NATO invasion would be for the good and that al-assad will be toppled and that syria will be in roses and flowers afterwards? Lol whut?
Before you make en entire post of nonsense, perhaps you can quote me stating the above? what do you think?
in fact if you read the last post with some discernment you'd have concluded any form of slavery & kowtowing isn't acceptable.

Now go move to Iran and perpetuate the Persian empire agenda bull ****, see how you like it..
You don't get to define for us who is good and who is bad when both your head and ass are buried in the sand!

:w:
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Jedi_Mindset
06-24-2012, 02:52 PM
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
Before you make en entire post of nonsense, perhaps you can quote me stating the above? what do you think?
in fact if you read the last post with some discernment you'd have concluded any form of slavery & kowtowing isn't acceptable.

Now go move to Iran and perpetuate the Persian empire agenda bull ****, see how you like it..
You don't get to define for us who is good and who is bad when both your head and ass are buried in the sand!

:w:
You have only shown your weakness by flipping like this, may i advice you this:



Get rid of your attitude, because speaking out of emotion isnt good.
I have told the truth, and you flip caused by your nafs maybe? The syrians will soon realize what a major problem they will face when americans are at their borders. Which they're already, there are currently 15,000 troops at Jordan-syrian border. we've seen libya and still support the same tactic on syria, oh muslims why?

Sis bluebell, may i ask you if you've talked with syrians themselves on this matter? I have and really, its completely different then al-jazeera.
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جوري
06-24-2012, 03:04 PM
I do apologize if you were offended by what you've written but I don't subscribe to your opinion nor think that your analyses have any semblance of truth or common sense. You can't even synthesize from what I have written a truthful conclusion. Much of what you write and surprisingly the amount of conspiracy theories going on, on an Islamic forum where Muslims should be otherwise logical & seasoned are frightening. It is almost as if you are wishing for failure to Muslims who pay with their blood so some other equally oppressive foreign force can take over. I'll not stand for it nor will I let you sully with nonsense an honest grassroots revolutions so that a new generation can grow up free with dignity and practice their religion without an outside agenda.
If you're living comfortably in the west, you don't get to nip in the bud with sarcasm, conspiracy and misinformation those who desire change..
I spent just two weeks in Egypt with my aunts when gun shots would be fired and we'd take cover under the table as it wasn't safe imagine people who don't even have a roof over their head and you're advocating that super powers with horrible human rights abuses to their own citizens to come in to exterminate the entire population of Syria because you've reasoned that China/Russia/Iran is better than U.S/NATO..
They're both beasts of a different coat!
capice?

:w:
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Jedi_Mindset
06-24-2012, 03:13 PM
I never supported china or russia or Iran. The masses do, but i wont ever. Created oppostion let me say, sis there are actually vids where rebels are calling for a no fly zone on syria and intervention of the west. We are told not to make alliance with christian and jews and what are the rebels doing? letting themselves being armed by the USA, israel, NATO and KSA. Unlike the taliban who are on their own and still defeat the americans. There is no need for calling foreign help when Allah is on your side, have patience and the help will come.

Iran supported invasions of iraq and afghanistan, same with russia and china. Russia invades chechnya, china oppresses muslims in turkistan. Its all to decieve the masses. But accept the ground realitis, even syrians who opposed Assad told me that there are indeed foreign backed groups who are the same as Assad militias.

The afghans have suffered wars for more then 30 years, the same situations as in syria. The afghans fought the russians but never called for foreign help, it was USA herself who asked the afghans to help. The afghans agreed, arm supplies came to the afghan mujahideen and they caused the russians severe losses. After the russians left, the arms supplies stopped. The taliban went their own way, they started to clean afghanistan from communist pigs and secularists, also from mafia's and drugsdealers. This worked, the USA betrayed them and put them in a bad daylight. few years later 9/11 happened, after 9/11 afghanistan got invaded. Why? Because afghanistan was ruled under shariah law and was united. As you know the prophecy when black flags come form khurasan, the US didnt want that to happen. They invaded, the taliban had no foreign help, no supplies anymore. Thanks to US bombings they were scattered over the country. but they never stopped fighting, they remained steadfast. Almost 5 million afghans have died and they still dont give up. They never called for foreign help but fought on their own. And now the US is on a defeat Masha'Allah.
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Abz2000
06-24-2012, 03:43 PM
We immediately launched a twofold process when we heard that the Soviets had entered Afghanistan. The first involved direct reactions and sanctions focused on the Soviet Union, and both the State Department and the National Security Council prepared long lists of sanctions to be adopted, of steps to be taken to increase the international costs to the Soviet Union of their actions. And the second course of action led to my going to Pakistan a month or so after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, for the purpose of coordinating with the Pakistanis a joint response, the purpose of which would be to make the Soviets bleed for as much and as long as is possible; and we engaged in that effort in a collaborative sense with the Saudis, the Egyptians, the British, the Chinese, and we started providing weapons to the Mujaheddin, from various sources again – for example, some Soviet arms from the Egyptians and the Chinese. We even got Soviet arms from the Czechoslovak communist government, since it was obviously susceptible to material incentives; and at some point we started buying arms for the Mujaheddin from the Soviet army in Afghanistan, because that army was increasingly corrupt.

Zbigniew Kazimierz Brzezinski
u.s national security advisor

then the betrayal:

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Muhaba
06-24-2012, 07:39 PM
And fear a trial which will not strike those who have wronged among you exclusively, and know that Allah is severe in penalty.

Commentary to verse 25 of Surah Al-Anfal:

"That trial" refers to those collective evils that are not confined to individuals but are so widespread that a large number of persons in a locality become addicted to these at the same time. In such a case, it is not the wrongdoers alone who are seized by the scourge of Allah but also those few people who are involved in those evils. This is because they put up with life in such evil surroundings.

In order to illustrate this, let us consider the case of a town from the point of view of its sanitary conditions. If filth lies scattered at a few places, its evil effects remain confined to that particular locality or localities and only those people who keep their houses or persons dirty suffer from the consequent diseases. But if filth gets scattered all over the town and there is no one to prevent it and restore sanitary conditions, then the air, water, and soil will all be contaminated and become so poisonous as to cause the outbreak of an epidemic in the whole town. Obviously, it will not discriminate between those who scattered the filth and those who refrained from it, but will affect all the people who live those surroundings. The same is the case of moral impuirty, corruption, and obscenity. If these evils are found in some persons individually but the fear of the good people of the society keeps them under check, the evil effects remain confined to the wrongdoers alone. On the other hand, if the collective conscience of the society becomes so weak that it cannot keep the evil suppressed, and the wrongdoers, the indecent, and the immoral people become so bold that they begin to commit their filthy acts openly, that mischeif takes the form of an epidemic of immorality. Then even those good people who remain content with their own individual goodness and adopt a passive attitude towards the widespread evils, fall victims to the consequent scourge because they did nothing to prevent the spread of the epidemic.

In this way, Allah impresses upon the Muslims that importance of the mission of reform and guidance for which the Messenger had risen and to which he was inviting them, as if to say, "There is life for you as individuals and as Community in this work. If you do not sincerely exert for its achievement and for the eradication of evils, an epidemic of evils will break out which will involve in its scourge all of you, even though there may be some among you who might not have been guilty of either the commission of those evils or of their spread; nay, they might have been leading good lives as individuals."

Commentary from the Meaning of Quran by Sayyid Abu Al'Ala Maududi (English translation of Tafheem Ul Quran)
Reply

Muhaba
06-24-2012, 07:46 PM
such heated arguments between Muslim brothers and sisters are not going to get us anywhere but will become a hindrance.

please read the following:

O Prophet, adopt the way of leniency and forbearance; enjoin what is good and avoid useless discussions with the ignorant people. If Satan ever excites you to anger, seek refuge in Allah: He is All-Hearing, All-Knowing. The fact is that if ever an evil suggestion from Satan so much as touches those who are God-fearing people, they immediately get alerted and clearly see the right course they should adopt.

As Regards their (that is, Satan’s) brethren, they drag them on and on in their crooked ways and leave nothing undone to seduce them. (7:199 – 202)


Commentary:
In this passage, Allah has taught His Messenger صلى الله عليه و سلّم some very important things about the methods of inviting people to the Message of propagating Islam, and of guiding and informing people. The object is to instruct the Holy Prophet صلى الله عليه و سلّم and, through him, his successors to enable them to carry on his mission after him. Some salient points are given below and should be considered in the order they are given:

1. The most important thing is that the inviter to the Truth should have a big and tender heart, and should be forgiving and forbearing. He should be friendly to his companions, kind to the common people, and should show forbearance to his opponents. He should tolerate the weaknesses of his comrades and endure patiently the persecution of his enemies. He should keep cool even under the greatest provocation and connive at the most unpleasant things. He should bear patiently the bitterest words, the most wicked slanders and the cruellest persecutions. Harsh treatment, hard-heartedness, bitter talk, and vindictive retaliations are as harmful as poison for this work: this spoils the work and does not mend it.

There is a tradition of the Holy Prophet صلى الله عليه و سلّم to the same effect: “My Lord has enjoined me to say what is just whether I am in a state of anger or happiness; to try my best to have cordial relations even with those who are inimical to me; to render their rights even to those who deprive me of my rights; to forgive even those who are cruel to me.” He صلى الله عليه و سلّم advised those whom he sent on this mission: “wherever you go, your visit should be a harbinger of happiness and not of hatred; you should become the source of comfort to the people and not of bringing hardships on them.” Allah has also praised this characteristic of the Holy Prophet صلى الله عليه و سلّم : “(O Messenger,) it is a great blessing of Allah that you are very lenient towards them and gentle with them. If you have been harsh and hard-hearted, they would have scattered away from you ...” (3: 159)

2. The second formula for the success of this Mission is to avoid philosophising and to enjoin those simple and well-known virtues that are universally accepted to be virtues, and are easily recognized by common sense which an ordinary person possesses. Thus the appeal of the inviter to the Truth convinces everyone. Its greatest advantage is that it helps win over the common people to the side of the propagators of the Truth, against its antagonists. When the common people, in spite of their prejudices, see on the one side a gentle and kind person inviting them toward simple virtues, which they themselves understand well, and on the other, his antagonists opposing his noble mission with immoral and inhuman devices, they turn away by and by from those degraded opponents and come to the inviter of the Truth. As a result of this, in the end, only those remain in the field to oppose the Truth, whose own interests are closely linked with falsehood or those who are slaves of the traditions of their forefathers and of the customs of ignorance. The Holy Prophet صلى الله عليه و سلّم owed his great success in Arabia to this wise policy. Then his successors achieved the same in the adjoining countries, where Islam spread by leaps and bounds and was accepted by the overwhelming majority of the people.

3. The other important instruction that has been given for the propagation of Islam is to avoid useless discussions with the ignorant people. The inviter of the Truth should always strictly be on guard against involvement in useless talk and discussion with mischievous and quarrelsome people. He should take the utmost care to approach and converse with those people only who adopt a reasonable and rational attitude toward his message. As soon as he feels that his addressees are adopting the attitude of ignorance and are resorting to argumentations, wrangling, and taunts, he should make an honorable retreat from them. This is because it is not only useless to be involved in such things but it is also harmful to the mission, as valuable time and energy, that could have been usefully employed for the propagation of the Message, go to waste.

4. In case the inviter to the Truth feels that the provocations from the mischievous people are becoming too much for him to bear and he cannot withstand their tyrannies, mischief, foolish objections, and accusations, he should at once realize that it is Satan who is tempting him to retaliate. Then the best thing is to seek refuge in Allah, and invoke His Help to protect His servant from doing in anger anything that might be harmful to his Mission. This is possible only if one remains cool-headed even under the greatest provocations, for one can never think or act wisely if one is easily excited by anger, insult, injustice, or cruelty, etc. But Satan, who does not like this Mission to succeed and is always devising schemes to defeat it, first incites his own disciples to attack the inviter to the Truth and then incites him to make counter-attacks on them. As Satan’s appeal is couched in very alluring words and pious terms, it is not an easy thing to withstand it. That is why pious people have been forewarned, in verses 201 – 202, of this serious danger and instructed that if they intend to refrain from evil, they should immediately get alarmed as soon as they feel the evil effects of the temptation of Satan and its incitement in their hearts and stand on their guard. Then they will clearly see the right course that they should adopt on such occasions and under such circumstances for the sake of their Mission.

As for “the brethren of Satan,” they become self-seekers under their influence, and cannot withstand their temptations. So they follow satans, who tempt them to retaliate and resort to every kind of abuse and dishonesty like their enemies.

Besides the above-mentioned particular implications of this passage, it bears a general meaning as well. It helps differentiate the way of the pious from that of the impious. Those who really fear Allah and sincerely desire to refrain from evil, are so sensitive that even if an evil thought so much as touches their hearts, it pricks their consciences and rankles in their hearts and they seek Allah’s refuge from Satan. This is because they are not used to evil thoughts, evil desires, and evil intentions, for these are foreign to their nature. As soon as they become conscious of their presence in their minds, their eyes are opened and their consciences recognize them. Then they seek Allah’s refuge from Satan in order to cleanse their hearts of those dirty things. In contrast to them, those who do not fear Allah nor desire to refrain from evil and those who have satans as their brethren go on cherishing evil thoughts, evil intentions, and evil designs in their hearts without feeling anything strange in them. So much so that no sense of cleanliness is left in their minds; and in due course, these dirty things take practical shapes and expose them before the world.

(Taken from the Meaning of Qur’an By Sayyad Abu Al-Ala Maududi)
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
06-24-2012, 07:50 PM
We all have our opinions and are entitled to them within reason but that is no reason for us to get into arguments regarding our opposing views and opinions, therefore can we please do the following and this is a reminder also unto myself:

That before we click the post reply button that we ask ourselves whether Allah would be happy with our posts and whether our posts will please him or anger him.

So post your views within reason but also respect other peoples and post that which will please Allah and not anger him. But If things continue the way they are then the result will be to close the thread. Jazakallahu khayr
Reply

جوري
06-24-2012, 08:51 PM
Originally Posted by WRITER
I lived there long enough to know what kind of place it is what kind of ppl are there. lately they were living like nonmuslims, so why should Allah help them?
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
Al-Anfal

Sahih International
And fear a trial which will not strike those who have wronged among you exclusively, and know that Allah is severe in penalty.
Originally Posted by WRITER
please post the Surah number too & don't misinterpret the meaning.
I am still waiting for you to show me the misinterpretation in shaa Allah.
and secondly how you reconcile my misinterpretation (someone has had some formal learning experience in Islam, speaks Arabic, lived in Saudi) with your desire for folks as unlearned as I am or possibly even more as in converted yesterday to go out there & preach.

:w:
Reply

Muhaba
06-24-2012, 10:24 PM
see http://www.islamicboard.com/world-af...ml#post1527597

what is so difficult in preaching? what's so difficult in telling nonmuslims the Islamic faith? ppl like you and even less-knowledgeable ones are doing it all the time on here. new and nonmuslims as well as Muslims ask questions and ppl answer them on this very forum. you don't go around telling them they aren't capable of doing that so why are you stopping those same ppl from going out and preaching openly? it's even easier then on here, because here you have ongoing discussions while there they only have to tell them a few sentences, give a leaflet and then go.

really, preaching isn't as difficult as you're making it to be.

organizations like WAMY have made leaflets / booklets that can be given out so all one needs is to get them and give them out.

I too posted two articles that can be printed and distributed.

or one can copy the translation of Surah Al-Ikhlas and give it out.

it's not so difficult.
Reply

جوري
06-24-2012, 10:35 PM
This doesn't answer as to how I misinterpreted the verse. I am asking without artifice or pretense, since you asked me not to misinterpret, I wasn't looking for you to interpret. I know what it means hence I used it. You alleged that God shouldn't help the people of Syria because they're this and that (see your own comment) your understanding doesn't reconcile with my experience with the bulk of people from Syria who are in fact giving up their lives with 'ma lana ghyrok ya Allah) the verse is conciliatory and explanatory in that what is happening to them isn't a punishment for what the good people are doing but what the bad vocal ones are doing.. thus, I was curious as to my misinterpretation based on what you proposed!


what is so difficult in preaching? what's so difficult in telling nonmuslims the Islamic faith? ppl like you and even less-knowledgeable ones are doing it all the time on here.
preaching and inviting are not the same thing. I have already stated as much on the previous page. Why not the latter, well a debate is inevitable and that is why not!
new and nonmuslims as well as Muslims ask questions and ppl answer them on this very forum. you don't go around telling them they aren't capable of doing that so why are you stopping those same ppl from going out and preaching openly? it's even easier then on here, because here you have ongoing discussions while there they only have to tell them a few sentences, give a leaflet and then go.
I also answered this on the previous page. This is a controlled environment not the case outside and at any rate there's nothing I can do to stop it. May Allah aid the sincere.

really, preaching isn't as difficult as you're making it to be.
Indeed, fidelity is a divine secret that he instills in 3ibadoh as'sal7een.

organizations like WAMY have made leaflets / booklets that can be given out so all one needs is to get them and give them out.

it's not so difficult.
Again so we are not going around in circles passing leaflets or gifting a Quran isn't preaching, that is an invitation. Preaching requires a debate.. You should be Muslim because, ..................
your religion isn't a divine religion because..........
Islam is better because..............
people have questions.
preaching doesn't equal passive receiving, it is active output.

:w:
Reply

Muhaba
06-24-2012, 11:09 PM
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
This doesn't answer as to how I misinterpreted the verse. I am asking without artifice or pretense, since you asked me not to misinterpret, I wasn't looking for you to interpret. I know what it means hence I used it. You alleged that God shouldn't help the people of Syria because they're this and that (see your own comment) your understanding doesn't reconcile with my experience with the bulk of people from Syria who are in fact giving up their lives with 'ma lana ghyrok ya Allah) the verse is conciliatory and explanatory in that what is happening to them isn't a punishment for what the good people are doing but what the bad vocal ones are doing.. thus, I was curious as to my misinterpretation based on what you proposed!



preaching and inviting are not the same thing. I have already stated as much on the previous page. Why not the latter, well a debate is inevitable and that is why not!

I also answered this on the previous page. This is a controlled environment not the case outside and at any rate there's nothing I can do to stop it. May Allah aid the sincere.

Indeed, fidelity is a divine secret that he instills in 3ibadoh as'sal7een.


Again so we are not going around in circles passing leaflets or gifting a Quran isn't preaching, that is an invitation. Preaching requires a debate.. You should be Muslim because, ..................
your religion isn't a divine religion because..........
Islam is better because..............
people have questions.
preaching doesn't equal passive receiving, it is active output.

:w:
according to the verse, when a community becomes involved in wrongdoing and other members of the community don't try to preach to them to stop them from wrongdoings then the whole community suffers. which is exactly what is happening, not only in syria but in the whole Muslim world. since Muslims are not fulfilling their responsibility of preaching Islam (to nonmuslims and ignorant/misguided muslims) the whole muslim world is facing problems.

one shouldn't argue simply for the sake of argument. we are here to earn the pleasure of Allah and not His displeasure. you should ask yourself, are you posting for Allah's sake or for your own sake/your pride? if it's for Allah's sake, then you should post what will please Allah and not what will displease Him. If you're posting or engaging in an argument to save your pride, then you shouldn't post at all.

Preaching is a well-known term and I am hopeful noone else misunderstood it as you did. even dictionary.com's meaning states one meaning of preaching as: to advocate or inculcate (religious or moral truth, right conduct, etc.) in speech or writing. From my posts it's clear i didn't mean debating with nonmuslims, although those who are able can do so.

and if you misunderstood what i meant it would be more proper to ask what i meant then to start a long argument. a simple, 'sister what do you mean by preaching? preaching means ... and most Muslims are not knowledgeable enough to do that. however they can invite to the religion by giving out leaflets etc.' would be enough instead this long useless argument with no meaning except to teach me the meaning of preaching.

my later posts did clarify what i meant, so then it would be more proper to say, "sister, i agree with you that muslims should invite to Islam by giving out leaflets, but my understanding of preaching is this so do you mean that or..."


this is my last post to you as i don't like arguing endlessly. i hope you read the guidelines for preaching and debating that i posted above.
Reply

جوري
06-24-2012, 11:33 PM
Originally Posted by WRITER
according to the verse, when a community becomes involved in wrongdoing and other members of the community don't try to preach to them to stop them from wrongdoings then the whole community suffers. which is exactly what is happening, not only in syria but in the whole Muslim world. since Muslims are not fulfilling their responsibility of preaching Islam (to nonmuslims and ignorant/misguided muslims) the whole muslim world is facing problems.
The verse has nothing to do with preaching whatsoever, at least of the scholarly portion of your previous post sans your personal addendum!
one shouldn't argue simply for the sake of argument. we are here to earn the pleasure of Allah and not His displeasure. you should ask yourself, are you posting for Allah's sake or for your own sake/your pride? if it's for Allah's sake, then you should post what will please Allah and not what will displease Him. If you're posting or engaging in an argument to save your pride, then you shouldn't post at all.
I agree that it is indeed what is going on here!

Preaching is a well-known term and I am hopeful noone else misunderstood it as you did. even dictionary.com's meaning states one meaning of preaching as: to advocate or inculcate (religious or moral truth, right conduct, etc.) in speech or writing. From my posts it's clear i didn't mean debating with nonmuslims, although those who are able can do so.
It is a verb, by its very nature denotes action not passive expression.

and if you misunderstood what i meant it would be more proper to ask what i meant then to start a long argument. a simple, 'sister what do you mean by preaching? preaching means ... and most Muslims are not knowledgeable enough to do that. however they can invite to the religion by giving out leaflets etc.' would be enough instead this long useless argument with no meaning except to teach me the meaning of preaching.
You don't see what you're doing here as exactly those things you profess to despise?
1- your own rendition.
2- saving face.
3- misuse of words

my later posts did clarify what i meant, so then it would be more proper to say, "sister, i agree with you that muslims should invite to Islam by giving out leaflets, but my understanding of preaching is this so do you mean that or..."
Actually you insist on going around in circles and can't accept being challenged even when overtly wrong about many things including blanket statements about entire populations of people.


this is my last post to you as i don't like arguing endlessly. i hope you read the guidelines for preaching and debating that i posted above.
In shaa Allah, and indeed great to know!

:w:
Reply

Aprender
06-24-2012, 11:34 PM
Originally Posted by WRITER
Preaching is a well-known term and I am hopeful noone else misunderstood it as you did. even dictionary.com's meaning states one meaning of preaching as: to advocate or inculcate (religious or moral truth, right conduct, etc.) in speech or writing. From my posts it's clear i didn't mean debating with nonmuslims, although those who are able can do so.
:sl:, As someone who is a former Christian, the term preaching to me literally means standing somewhere speaking about whatever word of God one thinks they might have. In America, this is something that is not well received by the general public due to problems that have come out of it from Christian groups unfortunately. People no longer listen to this type of advocacy unless they're already members of a particular religious organization and often times the one who is preaching in public gets made fun of, ignored, or has his intellect challenged by a passerby. I wouldn't recommend this for Muslims who aren't knowledgeable which is what you said too. But the problem is that there are many Muslims out there who aren't knowledgeable despite thinking they're mini scholars. It might be better for them to gain better knowledge first. For me, I didn't come to Islam really because anyone was around preaching to me either. It was more so a conscious decision I had after I asked God to guide me. Allah (swt) answered.

Originally Posted by WRITER
my later posts did clarify what i meant, so then it would be more proper to say, "sister, i agree with you that muslims should invite to Islam by giving out leaflets, but my understanding of preaching is this so do you mean that or..."
As a former kaffir, this wouldn't exactly be as an effective form of dawah in my opinion but I do think it can help but on a very, very microlevel. We live in a society where people are bombarded with leaflets. Advertisements, coupons, free samples. Often times these things get cast aside and thrown in the trash. My parents are non-Muslims. I gave them a leaflet to help them understand why I decided to become a Muslim and it was thrown away. If people aren't interested in learning, they're not interested in learning.

As someone who also used to be a Jehovah's Witness, I can tell you that they like to pass around copies of their Watchtower and Awake! publications. Sometimes people look at these, read them and they begin to ask questions about the beliefs. This leads to debates. This is dangerous territory for one who isn't knowledgeable about the religion and is not being able to answer simple questions. This would also keep people away from the religion. I have seen this happen with the Jehovah's Witnesses on my university campus. Students would flip through the magazine, begin to ask questions about the belief system, and then walk away from the religion all together because the one handing out the pamphlet didn't have answers to simple questions. I think Muslims would be wise to learn from those mistakes. I wanted to be a Christian missionary and not being able to have some of my questions answered by local preachers who should know more than I do was one of the many reasons I decided not to pursue this. I didn't want to turn people away from the religion because of my own lack of knowledge and ignorance.

Often times non-Muslim women walk up to me and ask me questions about Islam. I've made sure now to continue to educate myself about my own religion so that I might be able to answer some of the very basic questions that they have in the proper way with the help of Allah (swt). Only a few times have I had an answer of "I'm truly sorry but I don't know", which in that case it might be nice to have a leaflet to give to them at the end of our conversation. But usually these women are pleased with what I have to say. Allah knows if any of them have continued on to learn about Islam but it at least helped them think about it a little more and changed some of the incorrect perceptions that they have about the religion.
Reply

Muhaba
06-25-2012, 01:27 AM
Originally Posted by Aprender
:sl:, As someone who is a former Christian, the term preaching to me literally means standing somewhere speaking about whatever word of God one thinks they might have.
and that is similar to my understanding of preaching. however, it can be done both in writing and orally, so a muslim can simply give out leaflets. that's preaching too. saying that preaching means debating and giving out leaflets isn't preaching is a wrong understanding.

i rechecked the meaning in my own dictionary (just to make sure) and it states: deliver (a sermon); proclaim or teach ; advocate; talk in an annoying moralizing way

In America, this is something that is not well received by the general public due to problems that have come out of it from Christian groups unfortunately. People no longer listen to this type of advocacy unless they're already members of a particular religious organization and often times the one who is preaching in public gets made fun of, ignored, or has his intellect challenged by a passerby. I wouldn't recommend this for Muslims who aren't knowledgeable which is what you said too.
Muslims shouldn't worry about being made fun of. when the Prophet (SAW) and his companions were preaching / inviting to Islam , they would get persecuted by unbelievers. In Surah Al Asr it is written that only those are successful who believe (in Islam) and do Righteous deeds and advise each other to truth and advised each other to patience. When one preaches, such circumstances occur where onehas to be patient, so it's necessary to advise each other to be patient.

preaching Islam to unbelievers is a Muslim's responsibility especially those living amongst nonmuslims so you have to do it. if one feels one is unable, then they should learn the religion and preach. Otherwise, at least do it by getting leaflets and giving out a few whenever you go out.

But the problem is that there are many Muslims out there who aren't knowledgeable despite thinking they're mini scholars. It might be better for them to gain better knowledge first. For me, I didn't come to Islam really because anyone was around preaching to me either. It was more so a conscious decision I had after I asked God to guide me. Allah (swt) answered.



As a former kaffir, this wouldn't exactly be as an effective form of dawah in my opinion but I do think it can help but on a very, very microlevel. We live in a society where people are bombarded with leaflets. Advertisements, coupons, free samples.
If those leaflets, Advertisements, coupons, free samples etc didn't work, they wouldn't be giving them out. do you think companies waste money. no, but they know that these do work. and really if the result of 1000 or even more leaflets is just one person converting to Islam it's a great thing.

Often times these things get cast aside and thrown in the trash. My parents are non-Muslims. I gave them a leaflet to help them understand why I decided to become a Muslim and it was thrown away. If people aren't interested in learning, they're not interested in learning.
some may throw them away but some, even if just one, may actually read it and get guidance. the same is the case with one-to-one preaching and even debating. not all will take an interest in Islam but some may and of those, a few may convert.

but we shouldn't worry about numbers. our work is to preach the message of Islam. Even Prophet Muhammad (SAW) was told that his job was to convey the message and he shouldn't worry about whether the people became Muslims or not.

If we do our part, Allah will put barakah in it and eventually change will come.


As someone who also used to be a Jehovah's Witness, I can tell you that they like to pass around copies of their Watchtower and Awake! publications. Sometimes people look at these, read them and they begin to ask questions about the beliefs. This leads to debates. This is dangerous territory for one who isn't knowledgeable about the religion and is not being able to answer simple questions. This would also keep people away from the religion.
people who don't have enough knowledge can still do their part which is simply giving out the leaflets. if ppl ask questions you can't answer, refer them to a trustible website like http://www.islam-guide.com . If the nonmuslim is interested in knowing more, he can try to get answers from other sources. the important thing is to awaken that desire.

I have seen this happen with the Jehovah's Witnesses on my university campus. Students would flip through the magazine, begin to ask questions about the belief system, and then walk away from the religion all together because the one handing out the pamphlet didn't have answers to simple questions. I think Muslims would be wise to learn from those mistakes. I wanted to be a Christian missionary and not being able to have some of my questions answered by local preachers who should know more than I do was one of the many reasons I decided not to pursue this. I didn't want to turn people away from the religion because of my own lack of knowledge and ignorance.

Often times non-Muslim women walk up to me and ask me questions about Islam. I've made sure now to continue to educate myself about my own religion so that I might be able to answer some of the very basic questions that they have in the proper way with the help of Allah (swt). Only a few times have I had an answer of "I'm truly sorry but I don't know", which in that case it might be nice to have a leaflet to give to them at the end of our conversation. But usually these women are pleased with what I have to say. Allah knows if any of them have continued on to learn about Islam but it at least helped them think about it a little more and changed some of the incorrect perceptions that they have about the religion.
It's funny that as a former christian you say that ppl shouldn;t preach when others such as Yusuf Estes are complaining that Muslims aren't preaching enough.

The fact is that every Muslim needs to be told that it's their job to preach, that it is a religious obligation and Allah will ask them about it. If we awaken the preaching spirit in Muslims, they might even try to learn the religion in order to be able to answer other ppl's questions. and one well-known fact about learning is that you learn more and better when you teach. so if Muslims try to teach the religion to others, they'll learn it too. If you preach and someone asks you a question that you can't answer, you may actually do your research and find the answer. If you don't try to preach, you may not even bother to study.

in the end, preaching is an obligation and there are some things that become fard (obligatory) on everyone if no one from a community does it. in a community, some people should learn Islam and then teach it to others. If no one from a community does it, then it becomes obligatory on every person and everyone is a sinner.

so there's no escape from preaching. if you aren't doing it, you're sinning.
Reply

جوري
06-25-2012, 03:48 AM
See question no. 32693. Secondly: The one who wants to call others to Allaah must equip himself with the shar’i knowledge that he wants to convey to others, and he should have sufficient experience to debate well with others, and he should have some knowledge of the doubts and desires that they suffer from, and how they may be treated. If all a person has is sincere emotions and a little knowledge gathered from here and there, that will not achieve anything and it will not benefit the one whom he is calling at all. The worst thing that we fear for the one who embarks on such a mission before he is prepared for it and before he is properly qualified for it, is that he may be like the one who is overcome with compassion for the people who were stricken with a fatal disease and he rushed to help them without any experience in medicine, so he does not benefit the sick or protect himself. There is a saying; “He went hunting but he got caught.” So beware, O slave of Allaah, and let your first concern be to save yourself.

http://islamqa.info/en/ref/77579/preaching
Reply

Aprender
06-25-2012, 03:54 AM
Originally Posted by WRITER
some may throw them away but some, even if just one, may actually read it and get guidance. the same is the case with one-to-one preaching and even debating. not all will take an interest in Islam but some may and of those, a few may convert.
Which is why I said it can be effective on a very MICRO level.

Originally Posted by WRITER
If those leaflets, Advertisements, coupons, free samples etc didn't work, they wouldn't be giving them out.
I've got degrees and work in advertising/PR/marketing. Companies do not give out paper copies of adverts and free samples as much anymore because of the entire green initiative and the major expense of printing. Much advertising these days is shifting more digital in the form of scanning QR codes with smart phones, and having people sign up for e-mail lists to get access to coupons. Even churches are starting to do this now because it is much more cost effective and is actually more effective with people learning about a particular religion because it's not so up close and personal from behind a computer screen. But these are just a few different ways.

Originally Posted by WRITER
It's funny that as a former christian you say that ppl shouldn;t preach
:hmm: I did not say that. Please do not put words in the mouths of others. This is not right and it's not funny. I am not saying that Muslims should not preach. All I am advocating is a different, hopefully more educated approach.

Originally Posted by WRITER
the important thing is to awaken that desire.
And we all have different ways of reaching out to other people as people come to impetus differently. Just because you might disagree with the methods that other Muslims use to get others interested in Islam doesn't mean they're not doing their part. Muslims are involved in dawah everyday. It's in the way that we carry ourselves. Proper conduct alone can spark someones interest in the deen without a pamphlet or even saying a word about Islam right away. Everyone is watching. And I am saying this as someone who used to be a non-Muslim so I have a different perspective on this.

I agree that more Muslims should be involved in dawah but I also believe that more Muslims need to work on educating themselves about their religion too. I think we're smart enough to judge what kind of dawah each of our respective communities would respond to better the most. One place handing out leaflets might work while in another something else can have a much greater impact.

WaSalaam
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جوري
06-25-2012, 03:57 AM
Originally Posted by Aprender
This is not right and it's not funny. I am not saying that Muslims should not preach. All I am advocating is a different, hopefully more educated approach. Originally Posted by WRITER
:sl:

please see this post:
http://www.islamicboard.com/world-af...ml#post1527714

:w:
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Muhammad
06-25-2012, 09:43 AM
:sl:

Ultimately I think we will all agree that da'wah is a very noble and important duty which is following in the footsteps of the Prophets, may Allaah's peace and blessings be on them all. I am not sure where the disagreement is coming from and perhaps we are getting caught up in subsidiary issues. If that is the case, let us leave the discussion here (as we have come very far from the original topic) and any advice regarding methods and preparation of da'wah can be given in a new thread dedicated to that topic.

Thread closed.
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