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IbnAbdulHakim
07-03-2012, 07:53 PM
Assalamu Alaikum

Have you ever been in a situation where you were asked a question about islam to which you know the gathering wont like the answers you give? Im going to talk about my situation but you could talk about any situation.



If you live in the west, and were in a completely kaafir gathering and you was the only muslim (true muslim) in the group and the question arose:


"How do you feel about homosexuals?

What would you do if your brother/sister became homosexual?

Do you believe homosexuals should be killed?


Maybe you have senior colleagues around, maybe you have your boss there. Your answers will seriously affect how these kaafirs view you...


What would your answers be?




my answers :
" I find them to be deviant and can never accept the concept of a born homosexual no matter how much it is pushed down our throats, I believe homosexual tendancies can arise due to a combiation of the devil and the desires within and this should be faught not enabled !"

"I would abandon him and kick him out"

"only in an islamic state"




but i tell u, i felt pressure.... and this might be my weak imaan... may Allah strengthen me and guide me.
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Qurratul Ayn
07-03-2012, 07:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
but i tell u, i felt pressure.... and this might be my weak imaan... may Allah strengthen me and guide me.
^ Did that situation happen to you, Brother IbnAbdulHakim??? ^o) Or did you answer the questions now???
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-03-2012, 08:03 PM
^ yes just recently, why the sarcy face lol.


i had another muslim there but he was turnin into a bit of a fish, so I told them the above... but it affected the way everyone viewed me a lot.

i think this becomes more heavy on a person the older they get. im 25 (next august) but I still try, but sometimes I do feel pressure when I have to speak the truth...


for example if someone mentioned Aisha radhiallahu anha's marriage, my weak imaan may make it difficult for me to answer confidently even though I love that marriage the most after the mariage of rasululah and khadija but the shaytan comes in and then...


so I was wonderin, how many of you have been in these types of situation.


I'll tell u now ITS SO EASY with friends, so easy with family, but colleagues/seniors and kaafirs... totally different.
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Qurratul Ayn
07-03-2012, 08:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
why the sarcy face lol.
It's a quizzical face. Oh dear me ( Well, I think so)

format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
I'll tell u now ITS SO EASY with friends, so easy with family, but colleagues/seniors and kaafirs... totally different.
I agree. Yep, yep, yep. But you'd be surprised how many Non-Muslims out there that also don't like this and don't think it right at all.

I have met a few of the Non-Muslims and heard their views, and was quite surprised, not all of them are willing to accept this and they do say something about it
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-03-2012, 08:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Qurratul Ayn
It's a quizzical face. Oh dear me



I agree. Yep, yep, yep. But you'd be surprised how many Non-Muslims out there that also don't like this and don't think it right at all.

I have met a few of the Non-Muslims and heard their views, and was quite surprised, not all of them are willing to accept this and they do say something about it


What made it difficult is their rejection of my views i guess. They tried to make it out like i was sticking to a backward view, but I wasnt having non of it. They even tried to tell me animals are gay LOL, i mean for the love of
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-03-2012, 08:15 PM
thing is when they baught up the animal thing I said to em, "so you want to be the same as animals? they have no control"

so even if animals can be gay, that doesnt make a difference to me
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Qurratul Ayn
07-03-2012, 08:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
They even tried to tell me animals are gay LOL,
Now that is bang out of order. The ridiculous amount of pathetic excuses some people come up with. Jeez...
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Ramadan90
07-03-2012, 08:31 PM
This is a difficult issue. Just say what you believe in and dont bash homosexuality because you will be in trouble then. Just be neutral and say that in Islam we dont believe in homosexuality.

To answer your questions:

1. As long as they dont shove it in our throats and dont say that Islam should accept homosexuality then I dont care.

2. If you are truly a muslim, then you cant practice homosexuality. Even if you are attracted to same sex, you see it as a trial. You fight against your nafs.

3. No.(What I would tell the kafirs)
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جوري
07-03-2012, 08:34 PM
This is how I answer
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
"How do you feel about homosexuals?
I am averse to them as they're to heterosexuality!

What would you do if your brother/sister became homosexual?
They wouldn't!

Do you believe homosexuals should be killed?
They should stay closeted like heterosexuals.. we're not discussing sexcapades and they should play by the same rules.

end of story.. don't over complicate things..
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Ramadan90
07-03-2012, 08:35 PM
And if they are not satisfied with my answers and what Islam tells, I dont give a crap what they think about me.
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-03-2012, 08:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
They should stay closeted like heterosexuals.. we're not discussing sexcapades and they should play by the same rules.

end of story.. don't over complicate things..
lool very diplimatic my very intelligent sister BUT what if they insist you remark upon an open gay and what should be done with him. lol as they done with me
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جوري
07-03-2012, 08:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
lool very diplimatic my very intelligent sister BUT what if they insist you remark upon an open gay and what should be done with him. lol as they done with me
Then I say there's nothing further on the subject that I wish to impart. and follow that by a long awkward pause with a serious stare so they feel stupid!
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-03-2012, 08:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
Then I say there's nothing further on the subject that I wish to impart. and follow that by a long awkward pause with a serious stare so they feel stupid!
Thing is, I feel that they already know what a muslim believes should be done with a homosexual... to some extent due to all the exposure.

Therefore I felt there was benefit when i stated that the killing should only be in an islamic state - helps them realise we impose nothing? If you want to be gay leave the land of islam or face the consequences. Sounds fair?


I dno i guess maybe i do go too far sometimes lol
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جوري
07-03-2012, 08:46 PM
fact is most kaffirs I have encountered are averse to homos unless they're homo themselves, so in their own societies there's no consensus on so-called gay rights.. except in this case they're not asking you about their rights, rather how you feel about them and there's no law east or west to impose on you liking somebody under some banner..
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-03-2012, 08:49 PM
^ you mean that? because in my work I meet new people every single day... and almost every kaafir I come across sympathises with homosexuals.
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Ramadan90
07-03-2012, 08:58 PM
Just stick to your answers and leave it at that. If the kafir is a good person then he would accept and respect your opinions. We need to stop caring what people think about us. Do they pay your bills? No.
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prayforme
07-03-2012, 09:01 PM
Assalamualikum. In this type of situation we should try to turn the table over. I am assuming most of your colleagues were christian/jews, so just ask them:

'what your religion says about homosexuality? what will you do, because as far as I am concerned even though My Quran doesn't clearly says about death penalty for homosexuality, your bible clearly mentions it!

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is an abomination.[3](Leviticus 18:22 KJV)
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.[4](Leviticus 20:13 KJV)

;D
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-03-2012, 09:13 PM
^ they arent the type to take religious texts very seriously. THey dont affiliate themselves that closely with any religion. Most are agnostic and atheist.
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جوري
07-03-2012, 09:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
^ you mean that? because in my work I meet new people every single day... and almost every kaafir I come across sympathises with homosexuals.
Of course, but these are friends anyway so they tell me the truth- not everyone you meet is going to tell you the truth about how they feel you know most people are just looking to start something and impose 'ideals' they've made up in their mind to be true by the age of 18. Not sure what those sympathies are anyway? I mean what are homos missing in their lives that the rest of us have?
It is just new age crap to prepare us for a new world.. frankly a new world that I want nothing to do with...
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aamirsaab
07-03-2012, 10:23 PM
I would have approached the questions differently. Islamically, of course homosexuality is a sin. But, that's not to say we should be hostile nor homophobic. If it is someone you know/are close to that subscribes to that form of sexuality, then as a Muslim it is very difficult and painful to accept - I would agree entirely. Should I feel hostility to that person? Should I disown that person? Islamically, I don't think I would.

As far as it being a crime - this is a different matter altogether as that is linked heavily with social perception. Without getting into the nitty gritty of it, the simple fact of the matter is homosexuality is not a crime where I live. But, Islamically, it is a sin - a very big sin - which is enough to discourage me from ever doing it.
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جوري
07-03-2012, 10:31 PM
I think homophobia is a catch all phrase with such stringent measures that by same token would turn all homosexuals heterophobic if we follow from their premise. I see absolutely nothing wrong with being averse to the act. I find sodomy revolting, I find two guys doing with each other what should be between man & wife utterly humiliating (for them) and I prefer that people not be defined by their bedroom activities ... and there should be nothing wrong with that.. Why make concessions in our moral compass?
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Tyrion
07-03-2012, 10:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
my answers :
" I find them to be deviant and can never accept the concept of a born homosexual no matter how much it is pushed down our throats, I believe homosexual tendancies can arise due to a combiation of the devil and the desires within and this should be faught not enabled !"

"I would abandon him and kick him out"

"only in an islamic state"




but i tell u, i felt pressure.... and this might be my weak imaan... may Allah strengthen me and guide me.
I think your answers were unnecessarily harsh, and perhaps not the wisest choice of words. I don't really blame your coworkers for being a little put off... Those answers also paint a somewhat disturbing picture of Islam/Muslims (as well as a fairly inaccurate one from what I know) which isn't exactly something to be proud of.

Anyway, here's how I might have answered the three questions:

1) I don't really feel anything special towards them. I treat them as I would anyone else, since people can do what they wish with their lives (within obvious boundaries. For example, I would criticize extreme amounts of lewdness, whether they be from heterosexuals or homosexuals). The only time this may change is within a religious context, like if a fellow Muslim came to me and said he was considering homosexual actions or if homosexuality was being pushed into religious settings. Even then, the issue becomes more about homosexuality and not homosexuals. But yeah, from what I understand non Muslims are generally not expected to follow our rules.

2) I would let them know that such a thing isn't permitted within the religion, and try to make sure they understand that. If they continued to struggle, I would help them in their struggle. If they choose to become openly against the religion in a way that makes it obvious they no longer care, then obviously there might be some friction, but aside from that I don't really know what I'd do. I don't think it's fair to try and answer that question with an absolute statement without having actually been in that situation. It would most likely be very trying for both parties.

3) No.
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Tyrion
07-03-2012, 11:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Allah<3
Just stick to your answers and leave it at that. If the kafir is a good person then he would accept and respect your opinions. We need to stop caring what people think about us. Do they pay your bills? No.
Some of them sign your checks... ;D
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جوري
07-03-2012, 11:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tyrion
Some of them sign your checks..
Try signing for direct deposit then or looking for work where you're master of your domain :p
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dqsunday
07-03-2012, 11:33 PM
For myself, as a revert if asked these questions I would answer as follows:

"How do you feel about homosexuals?

I am neutral towards this. If they were one of my Brothers and Sisters in Islam I would encourage them to resist these temptations for it is considered unlawful in the eyes of God.

What would you do if your brother/sister became homosexual?

If you mean my biological brother or sister? It would be much the same as above, I would encourage them not to give in to these urges. If they are Muslim then I would tell them much the same thing as I would any other Muslim who feels attraction to the same sex.

Do you believe homosexuals should be killed?

Simple answer, No. For more details I would say if within an Islamic state being caught in a homosexual act is a crime and punishable according to Islamic law. If the homosexual in question fights against his or her urges and does his or her best to live according to the Qur'an, Sunnah and Hadith then they should be treated like anybody else. If they are out right fornicating with the same sex and caught doing it, then they are breaking the law, just as a man and woman doing the same outside of marriage would be breaking the law.

--
I have always been very open minded about the lifestyles of others, long before I learned and embraced Islam. Homosexuality has always been a controversial subject when it comes to religions, not just Islam. In fact I don't know of any religion that openly accepts gay/bisexual/lesbian/transsexuals etc. Nor do I feel this is a disease or a lifestyle picked up due to peer pressure. Some certainly can be, but its a very complex subject. I personally don't feel these people should be prosecuted or tormented in an unfair manner. I do feel they should be modest and keep their activities private as I feel regular heterosexual people should. Islamic law prevents them from engaging in homosexual activities, or marrying so what they do with this limitation as Muslims is up to them and their personal imaan. Allah knows best on what to do with them in the hereafter.

Outside of Islam, I always felt whatever people do, as long as its legal age and consensual its their business. If its against the law then they are breaking the law and if caught must face the consequences.

Earlier somebody mentioned issues people may bring up regarding the marriage between Aisha and the Prophet (salallahu asayliwasalm). If that were to happen in this day and age, it would be considered illegal. Back then, it wasn't out of the ordinary. he may have married her younger than average back then but I am pretty sure (or at least its the impression I have gained from reading the book about the Prophet(salallahu asayliwasalm) by Martin Lings I believe it was) he didn't consummate it till she was older. Either way, all around the world during that time up to probably the 18th century, in most countries, women were married by the age of 12, sometimes earlier. Of course today's standards, it is illegal in most countries, though 14 is still permissible. (in Canada 14 is the legal age of consent. Morally, 18 is more accepted)
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Abz2000
07-04-2012, 12:55 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
"How do you feel about homosexuals?
i simply tell them that it's considered a deviance like rape etc.
and if they give me that "two sane adults in private not harming anyone else" line, and "freedom",
i ask them why incest is illegal even if the son or daughter is an adult (astaghfirullah).
and since sodomy was a crime here too until very recently, would they consider me bigoted the day after some politician declared incest legal?
is the politician their "god" who's commands they obey rather than the one who created them?

that should have them running around in circles.



format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
What would you do if your brother/sister became homosexual?
i'd consider him/her a deviant just like a someone who practices bestiality, it's unnatural.


format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
Do you believe homosexuals should be killed?
depends on if they repent.
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dysphoricrocker
07-04-2012, 01:21 AM
Salaam.

format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
"How do you feel about homosexuals?
I am against the idea of homosexuality. But if they keep to themselves, then it does not bother me. But if they preach their beliefs and start demanding rights, then i will oppose them.

format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
What would you do if your brother/sister became homosexual?
They won't insyaAllah. But if they do, then slow talk is the way to start. If that fails, i will disown them as my siblings. May Allah forbid that from happening.


format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
Do you believe homosexuals should be killed?
The same way we don't hang rapists and paedophiles(in my country at least), we should not kill homosexuals. We have to guide and teach them, and that is my duty as a Muslim. But if they refuse to accept it, then there is as much as i can do. But accepting them is not a n option.
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Tyrion
07-04-2012, 01:28 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by dysphoricrocker
But accepting them is not a n option.
This is where a lot of Muslims/Christians/etc seem to err. Accepting a person and accepting an action are two totally different things.
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TrueStranger
07-04-2012, 02:33 AM
I see where you are coming from IbnAbdulHakim. Sometimes it's really frustrating when people want to discuss matters that are absolutely filthy and defies human rationality and morality. Society is morally degrading to levels that will even shock the wild-beasts. I'm unfortunate enough to have a class with some of the most "liberal" minded individuals on earth. They thought a woman walking around bare-chested was acceptable and went as far as encouraging people to "flip" it out in a joking manner. While they were laughing, I was fuming. It's shocking how lightly they take matters pertaining to decency.

You gave them a straight-forth answer. However, your surroundings will always influence your responses. It's not a matter of having a weak faith ( May Allah give us the firmness and the calmness to face those who encourage what is Haraam). You know right from wrong, but as humans we feel threatened and defensive when the overwhelming majority are against us. May Allah increase your knowledge about Islam and surround you with people who have taqwa.


Tyrion, it's difficult to accept people who are encouraging an unacceptable act. Some of these people do not even undertake these actions, yet they blindly encourage vices
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Hulk
07-04-2012, 02:56 AM
"How do you feel about homosexuals?

What would you do if your brother/sister became homosexual?

Do you believe homosexuals should be killed?"

To answer properly we must learn, not from only from shaikh google but more importantly from teachers whom we can sit and talk with. They asked you that question possibly to see if what they "heard" about Islam is true and I think your answer confirmed their "suspicion".

Without proper knowledge your iman can sway like a flower not planted firmly.
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-04-2012, 02:56 PM
^ how right you are bro, and I really am blessed to have regular access to such amazing teachers and individuals, so I do hope my answers had the truth which islam holds in them.



as for the people who are saying I have spoken harshly and not taken much consideration in regards to the matter, I only tried to speak that which I believe is the islamic truth of the matter.


if im wrong I will go back to each of those colleagues and tell them I was wrong and tell them the right islamic stance, but I dont at this point think I said anything wrong :)
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
07-05-2012, 01:26 AM
:sl:

Probably the best answer I've ever heard on this subject by Dr. Sherman Jackson:

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glo
07-05-2012, 06:16 AM
Going back to the OP (I haven't read the entire thread), I don't think it is a bad thing to gauge your audience and to answer accordingly. That may not be 'Shaytan weakening your imaan', but simply be you being sensitive to the people you speak to.

I would suggest that you calmly and factually say what you believe. If you feel that saying "I believe" puts too much focus on yourself and you don't feel comfortable with that, then say "Islam teaches ..."
Say calm and use words which are not inflammatory or likely to raise negative emotions and feelings.

And if you feel that you are 'losing your audience', then don't push your point, just let it go until another time. Remember, you don't have to come away 'the winner'.

Interestingly, and on the subject of homosexuality, I have heard Christians use the argument that they love homosexuals - love them so much that they feel it is their duty to tell them that their behaviour is not condoned by God!
I liked that, because it gave a clear 'I-believe-that-homosexuality-is-wrong-message', but emphasized love and compassion, rather than hatred.
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Hulk
07-05-2012, 06:38 AM

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IbnAbdulHakim
07-05-2012, 03:56 PM

Answer:



On homosexuality from The Reliance of the Traveller (p17.0):


In more than one place in the Holy Koran, Allah recounts to us the story of Lots people, and how He destroyed them for their wicked practice. There is consensus among both Muslims and the followers of all other religions that sodomy is an enormity. It is even viler and uglier than adultery.

Allah Most High says:

Do you approach the males of humanity, leaving the wives Allah has created for you? But you are a people who transgress. (26:165-66)

The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said:
1.May Allah curse him who does what Lots people did.

2.Lesbianism by women is adultery between them.

On fornication from the Reliance of the Traveller (p12.0):

Allah most High says:
1.Approach not fornication, it is surely an indecency and evil as a way.(17:32)

2.The fornicator and the fornicatress, scourge them each a hundred stripes and let no pity for them take you. (24:2)

3.The fornicator shall not wed other than a fornicatress or idolatress. The fornicatress, none shall wed her but a fornicator or idolator. That is unlawful for believers.(24:3)

(p12.2) The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said,


Whoever fornicates or drinks wine, Allah takes his faith from him as a man takes a shirt off over his head.

And Allah knows best.
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Hulk
07-05-2012, 06:06 PM
Thank you for sharing the exerpt bro. I have no disagreements with what is mentioned in The Reliance Of The Traveller and I don't think the two videos I posted as well as Bro Muraad posted disagrees with it either. The excerpt is describing those who "practice" homosexuality.

A person who "practices" homosexuality should be punished under Sharia, the same goes for any fornicator regardless of whether or not the act of fornication was homosexual or not (the topic on sharia would be another thread altogether).

As far as I know it is not mentioned in our religious texts whether or not a person is "born homosexual" or not. What is mentioned is that the act of it is haram. Which means hypothetically if a person is "born gay", he must fight the nafs that attracts him to those of the same gender.

Perhaps when your colleagues asked you that question, you took "homosexual" to mean someone who "practices" it while they meant someone who has gay "feelings". Which is totally understandable as I am sure that as a muslim you have a separate worldview from them. To them having "gay feelings" and "acting upon it" might mean the same thing as they are used to the concept of "you are free to do whatever makes you happy".

We as muslims on the other hand have a different concept of what "makes us happy". We trust in what has been prescribed to us by God even if it is against what we "want". We understand that what we like may not necessarily be good for us while what we dislike might actually be good. Their concept of "freedom" is to be free to do whatever you desire. Our concept of freedom is to submit to God and be free of our worldly desires.

Just my opinion.
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Insaanah
07-05-2012, 07:05 PM
:sl:

format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
^ they arent the type to take religious texts very seriously. THey dont affiliate themselves that closely with any religion. Most are agnostic and atheist.
These kind of people like scientific facts and statistics perhaps.

Tell them that in Islam, consenting adults also needs God's consent, and He does not give his consent to people practising homosexuality, and that in fact, Islam foretold the spread of diseases amongst such people (HIV/AIDS was first clinically observed amongst homosexuals 30 years ago) over 1430 years ago:

"..if ever lewdness spreads among people till it is regarded as a common open practice, plagues and new diseases which did not exist before will spread among them.." (part of a longer hadeeth narrated by Abdullah ibn Umar and recorded in ibn Maajah and al-Haakim).

Homosexuals accounted for over half of HIV infections in 2006.

Homosexuals accounted for 61% of all new HIV infections in the U.S. in 2009, as well as over half of people living with HIV in 2008.

A common mistake among humans is that if they do not see any negative consequences for their actions, they consider their actions lawful and harmless, but it's been seen in the world that some consequences do not become apparent til years or decades later. A source of superior knowledge can be of tremendous benefit in cases like this, so that one knows not to do the action in the first place. And in Islam God, who is the source of superior knowledge, has told us to refrain from it, and we trust in His Wisdom and obey Him.

Even if AIDS/HIV was not a problem, and even if there were no negative effects on society, what is forbidden is forbidden. It isn't a crime one day and then a practice to be defended the next. In Islam, the goalposts don't change.

It is forbidden the same way that intimacy between a man and a woman is forbidden before marriage and outside of marriage, and intimacy between a man and woman too closely related to marry, is forbidden. Yet no one bats an eyelid about these. The lawful channel in Islam is marriage between a man and woman. Adultery, homosexuality, incest, and any others, are unlawful.
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-05-2012, 07:17 PM
^ i kno what your saying is good sis but i dno these days i really dislike having to refer back to science.

I feel like it reduces my conviction to what man is saying... and seriously when the word of God isnt enough to inspire a mans mind but science is... theres something seriously wrong with the world
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LauraS
07-07-2012, 05:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
They even tried to tell me animals are gay LOL, i mean for the love of
I was reading recently about bonobo chimps that use homosexual behaviour to ease tensions and build relationships with other family groups. They use this behaviour rather than fighting.

You won't be able to persuade liberal people the homosexuality is evil any more than they can persuade you it isn't. They probab;y think "for the love of, people can't help how thye feel". :hmm:
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-07-2012, 05:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by LauraS
You won't be able to persuade liberal people the homosexuality is evil any more than they can persuade you it isn't. They probab;y think "for the love of, people can't help how thye feel". :hmm:
hmm your not muslim right?


whats your social circle think of gays? majority accepts theM?
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M.I.A.
07-07-2012, 07:13 PM
homosexuality is wrong.

support and hope for change/understanding.

would not kill anybody.. i know its not a fitting ideology for this world.

there is a god that knows all. if he condemns you aint nothing stopping it.. evil is undone by its own hands apparently.

a society based on killing is representative of an insolent people or a people unable to look after themselves.


and that makes things a lot more complicated then flesh and bone answers.


"If you live in the west, and were in a completely kaafir gathering and you was the only muslim (true muslim) in the group and the question arose"

that is very funny.

every muslim thinks he is the true muslim, thats the ego.
every decision is beyond question.. pride.
every battle must be won..

the world would let you fight and kill forever, then there would only be the muslim?

when you have iman, knowledge and a tongue that can speak it. homosexuals may change there ways.. how attractive your religion would be to them.

actually most would disagree with that but before being openly homosexual (the point of contention) there is probably a period of self reflection, self questioning, doubt, anxiety... much like any other problem.

and better to take a muslim standpoint or guide than the homosexual's portrayed in the mainstream.

i dont know what you would fight and kill for but most battles start with words. then the ego takes over.

...maybe you could save them from themselves but is sounds like an impossible task
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LauraS
07-08-2012, 08:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
hmm your not muslim right?


whats your social circle think of gays? majority accepts theM?
No, I don't know what I am lol. And I don't think I know anybody who thinks homosexuality is evil ^o) I know people who don't particularly like the thought of it, but they just accept it's the way the people feel. I have gay friends myself.
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جوري
07-08-2012, 09:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Insaanah
These kind of people like scientific facts and statistics perhaps.
If that were the case then there will be numerous scientific facts that, which they'll abhor. The same people who advocate for men sodomizing are also the first to mock polygamy even though 'animals' which they like to idenitify with as code of conduct aren't monogamous by nature... So I guess in their hypocrisy they subscribe to the animal like bahavior they enjoy but not the one that can actually be more natural and productive to the continuance & survival of the species..

Whatever the case.. kaffirs can do as they please.. There's no sin beyond kuffr just so long as they don't export their laws under some threat or force the rest of us to accept deviance as normal!

:w:
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