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جوري
07-04-2012, 02:35 PM
I Just realized something reading about Suffyia RA yesterday and then reflecting on the verses from suret yousef and wanted to share:

She said: "I longed to be with you while I was a Jew. How can I leave you now, when I am a Muslim?”

This is probably a reference to the fact that she once saw in her dream a portion of the moon falling into her lap. When she mentioned her dream to Kinanah, he smote her face so severely that she developed a mark on her eye. He said: “You seem to be desiring to become the wife of the King of Madinah.”

Her father is also reported to have treated her similarly when she related the same or similar dream to him. She again saw (in her dream) the sun lying on her breast. When she mentioned this to her husband, he remarked:

“You seem to be wishing to become the Queen of Madinah.”

Sahih International
[Of these stories mention] when Joseph said to his father, "O my father, indeed I have seen [in a dream] eleven stars and the sun and the moon; I saw them prostrating to me."


__________________________________

the sun is substantially larger than the moon and the source of light which reflects on the moon and makes our closed system open because of the light that reaches it from the sun.. I thought it was a nice description for women...
your thoughts?
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Cabdullahi
07-04-2012, 02:49 PM
Nice description but men are substantially larger and stronger than women - we must not forget that.
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-04-2012, 03:07 PM
She said: "I longed to be with you while I was a Jew. How can I leave you now, when I am a Muslim?”
sis can I have the context for that please? Was she talking to rasoolullaah sallallahi alaihi wasallaam?
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جوري
07-04-2012, 03:16 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
sis can I have the context for that please? Was she talking to rasoolullaah sallallahi alaihi wasallaam?
Yes she was talking about the prophet (PBUH)

http://www.islamicboard.com/clarific...ml#post1530175
Originally Posted by Cbdullahii
Nice description but men are substantially larger and stronger than women - we must not forget that.
:lol: that was cute.. the thread isn't meant to eclipse (pun intended)or to diminish the roles that men play.
I am not the one that authored the Quran nor interpreted the dreams.. I just thought it was a nice description that's all..

:w:
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-04-2012, 03:30 PM
subhanAllah


Im still struggling to see how you have interpreted women to be the sun here? I realise our prophet saws represents the moon in all its beauty.

Sorry for being so slow today


"the sun lying on her breast" <-- again the prophet saws? Male? lol
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جوري
07-04-2012, 03:35 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
Im still struggling to see how you have interpreted women to be the sun here?
lols akhi.. not a problem .. forget about the dream of Saffyiah RA for now and tell me how you understand the verse from the Quran of Yusuf PBUH seeing (also in a dream) the sun, the moon and 11 eleven planets prostrating to him?

bearing in mind verse 100 12:100 to top

Sahih International
And he raised his parents upon the throne, and they bowed to him in prostration. And he said, "O my father, this is the explanation of my vision of before. My Lord has made it reality. And He was certainly good to me when He took me out of prison and brought you [here] from bedouin life after Satan had induced [estrangement] between me and my brothers. Indeed, my Lord is Subtle in what He wills. Indeed, it is He who is the Knowing, the Wise.
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-04-2012, 03:37 PM
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال

lols akhi.. not a problem .. forget about the dream of Saffyiah RA for now and tell me how you understand the verse from the Quran of Yusuf PBUH seeing (also in a dream) the sun, the moon and 11 eleven planets prostrating to him?
ok yes the mother is being represented as the sun there but but our prophet saws is also represented as the sun lol.

so men = sun and moon

women = sun?


sorry for being cheeky
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جوري
07-04-2012, 03:41 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
sorry for being cheeky
No, no.. it is ok..
read her dreams again.. I don't think you've read carefully..
the one where she saw the moon in her lap it was interpreted as wanting to become the wife of the king of Medinah, whereas the one where she saw the sun on her chest, was interpreted as her becoming the queen of Medinah..
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-04-2012, 03:42 PM
^ ok now i get it lol. thanks


although our interpretations mean nothing to be honest :p
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جوري
07-04-2012, 03:43 PM
well it has already happened and it wasn't our interpretation.. in fact more of a discovery than an invention....
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syed_z
07-04-2012, 04:34 PM
Asalaam O Alaikum....

Nice find actually and i would like to add my 2 cents...


(30:21) And of His signs is that He created for you from yourselves mates that you may find tranquillity in them; and He placed between you affection and mercy. Indeed in that are signs for a people who give thought.


If peace and tranquility comes at the time of rest and specially rest at night time then the mates (females) being likened to moon makes sense.

Also because it is the Man who goes outside the house at the beginning of the day i.e. Sunrise to earn bread for the family and he needs rest and care when he comes back at Dusk when the Moon comes out.

Also it is the Woman in Quran that has been likened to Night while it is the man who has been likened to brightness of morning I Believe.....

Surah Shams 91 Verses 1-4



Sahih International
By the sun and its brightness




Sahih International
And [by] the moon when it follows it





Sahih International
And [by] the day when it displays it





Sahih International
And [by] the night when it covers it






Surah Al Layl 92 Verses 1-3



Sahih International
By the night when it covers




Sahih International
And [by] the day when it appears





Sahih International
And [by] He who created the male and female,
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جوري
07-04-2012, 05:41 PM
:sl:

I am not sure that the descriptions are interchangeable unless I find another 'dream interpretation' to show differently, I think that the sun used to denote the feminine and moon masculine by linguistics:

Arabic:
the sun– feminine*
the moon- masculine
(*Interestingly, this is one of very few feminine nouns not marked with a final "a" sound.)
http://www.phrasebase.com/archive2/a...n-genders.html

I also found this in another forum:
Asalamu alaykum

As you are aware nouns in the arabic language can either be masculine or feminine.

The word Shams (The Sun) is feminine, While Qamar (moon) is masculine.

The sun burns itself to give light and life to everything around, and the moon is Muneer, meaning it reflects the light; it radiates the brilliance of the sun.

So when we shine as men, the implication is that we are reflecting the glorious light of our women.

http://muslimvillage.com/forums/topi...oon-in-arabic/

And Allah swt knows best.
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TrueStranger
07-04-2012, 07:19 PM
Nice thread. Quick question what about the earth is it masculine or feminine?
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جوري
07-04-2012, 07:24 PM
Originally Posted by TrueStranger
Nice thread. Quick question what about the earth is it masculine or feminine?

  • The earth الأَرْضُ and the sun الشَّمْسُ are feminine in Arabic language.

http://www.madinaharabic.com/Arabic_.../L006_004.html

and I so felt in every language as they do call it mother earth and when we die we go back to her as we're in the womb...
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TrueStranger
07-04-2012, 07:46 PM
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال


  • The earth الأَرْضُ and the sun الشَّمْسُ are feminine in Arabic language.

http://www.madinaharabic.com/Arabic_.../L006_004.html

and I so felt in every language as they do call it mother earth and when we die we go back to her as we're in the womb...

That is good to hear, because seeing the moon and the earth merging in a dream would have be beyond awkward if the earth was masculine in Arabic as well ;D

Jaza'Allah Khair.
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Endymion
07-04-2012, 08:26 PM
Woha great thread :thumbs_up

Yesterday i was thinking about Ummahatul Momineen and was recalling my memory about the Ummul Momineen who saw that dream moon fall on her chest and didn't remember who she was.And today i see this thread Alhamdulillah show our hearts are connected :p

In my language,Sun and Moon both are masculine and their light is feminine.The discussion is indeed very interesting how you said woman is the sun and moon is man as the dreams of Safiyah RA said the same.I read some sahaba's compared Muhammad SAW to moon as His face was that bright Subhanallah and may be thats why the interpreter told her you seem to be desiring to become the wife of the king of Madinah.

In the other dream,she saw sun lying on her chest does not mean it was her but may be holding the sun on your chest means you'll become king or queen.And Allah swt knows best thats just what i think.

I'm curios to look at the interpretation of holding sun over you in Ibne Seerin's dictionary of dreams but i'll have to wait till tomorrow so i'll go upstairs i have this book in my pc.

In the dreamof Yousuf AS,the eleven stars were his brothers and his mother and father were sun and moon but it is not specified who was sun and who was moon :hmm: That is really interesting.I'll search that tomorrow Inshallah but tell you what,its really hard to sleep now after reading this thread ;D
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جوري
07-04-2012, 08:34 PM
I asked around today and it is definitely understood in Arabic at least that the sun is feminine and that the intended person in Yusuf (AS) with the sun to be his mother.. since the Quran was revealed in Arabic.
It is amazing you can read something everyday and always learn something new...
sob7an Allah
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جوري
07-04-2012, 08:49 PM
I am not sure why kawkab is translated to stars.. a better translation would be planet..
but Allah a3lam..

:w:
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Endymion
07-05-2012, 02:08 PM
Shishti i have found it Eeehaaa i was right :D

According to the dictionary of dreams by Imam Ibn-e-Serin,the Sun refers to The king,prince,commander,Father and beautiful woman while The Moon refers to Just leader,beautiful boy and a tyrant or a liar.
The interpretations of watching sun and moon in dream says that if a woman saw herself holding sun or moon,it means she will get married.If a woman sees moon on her laps,it also means she will get married.
In the dreams of Safiyah RA,both the sun and the moon refers to Muhammad SAW and that she will get married to a Just leader.

Why Sun is comapred to woman and man comapred to moon is still an interesting question for me.To my understanding,all the seasons,colors and beauties on planet earth is due to the sun and if it wasn't there,this planet would covered with ice.If Hawa wasn't there in the life of Adam AS,his life would be so colorless and lifeless and may be thats why in Arabic,women is The Sun which gives life to this planet and may be thats why Dr Muhammad Iqbal once said,

The picture that this world presents from woman gets its tints and scents:
She is the lyre that can impart pathos and warmth to human heart.

Her handful clay is superior far to Pleiades that so higher are
For every man with knowledge vast, Like gem out of her cask is cast.

Like Plato can not hold discourse, Nor can with thunderous voice declaim:
But Plato was a spark that broke from her fire that blazed like flame.


I am not sure why kawkab is translated to stars.. a better translation would be planet..
but Allah a3lam..
Yup yup i can see that Star is Najam in Arabic and Thaqib as well.
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جوري
07-05-2012, 03:59 PM
I think thaqib ثاقب means piecing or penetrating

and Allah swt knows best..
Jazaki Allah khyran for the above..
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Endymion
07-05-2012, 04:13 PM
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
I think thaqib ثاقب means piecing or penetrating
Aha yes right :omg: but the meaning written in my quran is Bright star.An Najmuth thaqib :hmm:
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جوري
07-05-2012, 04:18 PM
Originally Posted by Endymion

Aha yes right :omg: but the meaning written in my quran is Bright star.An Najmuth thaqib :hmm:
No translation I have found has ever captured the true spirit (roo7) al Quran you know.. It is unfortunate.. could potentially be piercing in its brightness ... but I understand things differently than they're translated usually lol..
at any rate I looked it up for you and here it is is:

lation.babylon.com/arabic/to-english/
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جوري
07-05-2012, 05:47 PM
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جوري
07-05-2012, 05:56 PM
At-Tariq (The Night-Comer) [86:3] [RECITE]
[top] [next match]
Alnnajmu alththaqibu
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CosmicPathos
07-06-2012, 09:13 AM
lets give this realization a twist.

One day the Sun shall run off its hydrogen fuel and die ... while the moon will remain .... :D
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Periwinkle18
07-06-2012, 11:08 AM
Lol the moon won't have any light then it'll be useless with out the sun don't you think??
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جوري
07-06-2012, 01:57 PM
Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
lets give this realization a twist.

One day the Sun shall run off its hydrogen fuel and die ... while the moon will remain .... :D
Feeling better in shaa Allah? :p
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
07-06-2012, 02:02 PM
Interesting thread sis masha'Allaah

jazaakiAllaah khaayr for sharing.

I wish Li would allow me to rep already :\
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White Rose
07-06-2012, 04:29 PM
Very interesting and informative thread. :happy:
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tofytisa
07-06-2012, 06:16 PM
nice comparison. makes us feel better n encourages us to be better
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