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IbnAbdulHakim
08-30-2012, 02:21 PM
I think for this topic I will welcome atheists/agnostics etc more then muslims, please share your input.



open-minded - ready to entertain new ideas; "an open-minded curiosity"; "open-minded impartiality"
broad-minded - inclined to respect views and beliefs that differ from your own; "a judge who is broad-minded but even-handed"


Is it just me or does it seem like everyone's criteria for what makes a person open or close minded is very different?


I grew up in a home where I wasnt allowed alcohol, dating, smoking, hanging around with friends much due to fear of negative influence, watching too many movies, playing too much games or even staying over at cousins houses much. My sisters were told to never go out unless accompied by one of their 6 brothers or father and were constantly guarded throughout life as though they were diamonds that a man could snatch. I wasnt allowed to celebrate birthdays, attend parties (even social parties that might occur at school for example) due to the fear of freemixing. Remember I am a boy, not a girl.

That said my parents always got along with all neighbours, gave gifts shared visions and dreams, helped each other when needed. My father gave a bouquet to a japanese lady in the hospital once who was in the bed right next to my mothers simply because she had no one in this country. I'm sharing this to express what I feel makes him open minded.



Please tell me, from what I have said, do you feel that my father was open or close minded and why?



I hope this topic isn't too... narrow to discuss.
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BadOlPuttyTat
08-30-2012, 05:09 PM
Your father wasn't displaying open mindedness. He was just being nice to the lady really and being a true chap to her. Being open minded is good but being "Oprah minded" is bad.
Your dad sounds like a nice guy and a true gentleman though. You should give a better example of him being open minded though because I really want to hear more about him :statisfie
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IbnAbdulHakim
08-30-2012, 05:32 PM
^ hmm the reason i mentioned that incident of my father is because even though she wasnt out culture/religion or ethnicity etc he still treated her with kindness. To me this is open-mindedness. I know this may sound hard to believe but at the same time my father wouldnt allow us to marry outside of our culture, however I see this as trying to maintain a fluid/strong family bond .... i really hope this makes sense. Everything was always int he best interest.



Only reason I raised this topic is because I really dislike this "older people are so close minded" mentality, I don't agree with it. Stuck in their ways maybe... but you try reach 50 and see how you do lol.



Hmm example... there was a man we knew who had no career, a family and was crumbling. My father gave him work, allowed him to practise (for many months) at his expense so that he can progress in his field. The man is now stable and always does freelance work.
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BadOlPuttyTat
08-30-2012, 05:48 PM
Again that isn't open mindedness it is just kindness. Open minded implies being open to ideas and ways of thought and does not implies to physical actions directly. Although being a Muslims from Middle Eastern(I am assuming) culture it may be considered open minded in your point of view though. But still he sounds like a nice guy regardless
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ardianto
11-02-2013, 06:54 AM
:sl:

A Muslim doctor in a Muslim majority country wrote her experience when she found a baby with very weak condition. She found too that this baby never breastfed by his mother. So, through the baby grandma she invite the mother to breastfeed her baby, but the grandma said the mother could not breastfeed this baby because "the Elders" in her village prohibit it

There is prohibition that issue by the elders in her village for mothers to not breastfeed their new born babies for a period that can last up to months, not only few days or few weeks. And the people obey this prohibition because they think this is from Islam.

This is the example of close minded. The elders must be know that there are command in Qur'an and Hadith for mother to breastfeed the babies. But since they were taught by earlier generation about this prohibition, they obey it without reserve. And people obey the elders without wondering it.

Imagine if they are open minded, they must be will questioning why there is prohibition to breastfeed the babies if qur'an and Hadith command mothers to breastfeed the babies.
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Independent
11-02-2013, 09:43 AM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
Please tell me, from what I have said, do you feel that my father was open or close minded and why?
Being open minded implies that you have a capacity to understand, even to empathise with another point of view. (Even if you strongly disagree with it.) It implies that you are willing in your mind (but not in your behaviour) to follow other reasoning, other beliefs, to see where it leads. Even though you may reject where it ends up.

Being close minded implies that you will not make this effort. You reject the other person's beliefs so strongly, that you will not spend one second considering it from their point of view. You may feel it pollutes your nature even to think about it. It may make you angry simply to be asked to consider it. For someone like this, when they call upon you to be open minded, they mean simply that you should agree with everything they say.

The example you give of your father shows he has natural decency and an empathy with humanity anywhere, but it's hard to tell how open-minded he is.
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glo
11-02-2013, 04:31 PM
^
Arguably you can only be sure of your own beliefs and convictions if you have been open-minded enough to listen to and engage with other the beliefs and convictions of others and have weighed your own against them.

If you only narrow-mindedly repeat what others have taught you, how can you know that it is actually your own personal belief?
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Caller الداعي
11-02-2013, 06:17 PM
I think the best way to be open minded is in the way the Prophet Sallallahu alaihi wasallam.
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glo
11-02-2013, 07:27 PM
Originally Posted by Caller الداعي
I think the best way to be open minded is in the way the Prophet Sallallahu alaihi wasallam.
Can you give some examples which demonstrate the open-mindedness of prophet Muhammed (pbuh), Caller?
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Caller الداعي
11-02-2013, 07:33 PM
yes inshallah

I think one of the greatest examples is his practice of consulting the companions in many issues he was faced with to get there opinions and to show the various options out there.
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glo
11-02-2013, 07:37 PM
Are there also examples of him being open-minded to those of other faiths and beliefs?
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Insaanah
11-02-2013, 08:17 PM
Originally Posted by glo
Are there also examples of him being open-minded to those of other faiths and beliefs?
If you mean was he open minded to the idea that God had a son, no. The same way we would not be receptive to the idea that anybody other than our mother gave birth to us. We didn't see our own birth, yet we know who our mother is, even if we bear no resemblance, and nobody else can come along and say actually, this is not your mother, somebody else is. The same way, we know who our Creator and God is, and nobody else is our Lord and Sustainer but He. Nobody else is worthy of adoration and worship and submittance but He. The truth is one, and there is no compromise or open-mindedness with regards to it.

If one of a married couple were asked to be intimate with someone other than their wedded spouse, or alongside their spouse, would they be open minded and receptive to it? Such a thing would be considered offensive and wouldn't even be entertained. The mere suggestion that one should be unfaithful to one's spouse is ridiculous. It is not called being open-minded, but unfaithful. Yet somehow, when it comes to our Creator, we have to be open minded. We are faithful to other human beings, but the one who deserves the most faithfulness, is none other than our Creator Allah. No human being can do for us what He has done and continues to do. We are faithful to him without any associates in His Divinity.

And in this faithfulness and truth, the prophet (peace and salutations of Allah be upon him) reached out to come together with others, such as Christians, that we should all be faithful to and adoring of and worshipping God alone without associates in His divinity.

Peace.
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Muhammad
11-03-2013, 01:06 AM
Greetings,

What is regarded 'open-minded' here is very much subjective and relative to the context. A person can be open-minded in some aspects but not necessarily in others. Moreover, what one person considers to be open-minded, another might not.

Originally Posted by glo
^
Arguably you can only be sure of your own beliefs and convictions if you have been open-minded enough to listen to and engage with other the beliefs and convictions of others and have weighed your own against them.

If you only narrow-mindedly repeat what others have taught you, how can you know that it is actually your own personal belief?
I disagree with this. I believe that truth can be so clear - guidance being from God - that a person can arrive at a particular belief and know there is nothing else like it, that nothing can be truer. Even if it is the only belief they have ever known, it can be so pure that anything else would surely be error.

Such is Allah, your Lord in truth. So after the truth, what else can there be, save error? How then are you turned away? [Qur'an 10:32]

Islam does not ask us to blindly follow without any thought. In fact, the Qur'an rebukes the idolators for doing this very same thing due to which they clung on to false beliefs. The Qur'an repeatedly challenges mankind to bring an alternative proof or authority if they have one. It puts forward many arguments that appeal to logic and intellect. It is itself a miracle proving the truth of the message it contains. The very testimony of faith demands certainty, knowledge and truthfulness amongst other conditions on the part of the one who professes it.

For someone still searching for the truth, they may have to research many things before finding the true religion. But once they have arrived home, there is no need to continue the search. This recognition of truth has been, and continues to be, demonstrated in many ways. The Companion of the Prophet :saws:, Jubayr ibn Mut'im, once heard the Prophet :saws: recite chapter 52 of the Qur'an during the evening prayer, and he was not a Muslim at that time. He narrates, 'I heard the Prophet :saws: recite Surah at-Toor in the Maghrib Prayer, and it was the first time Islam entered and settled in my heart.' In another narration, he said, '...and it was as if my heart was about to fly (because of its beauty)!' (Narrated by Al-Bukhari).

If one has to keep checking their convictions against those of others, it seems to imply a weakness and insecurity in one's own conviction to begin with.

This notion that one cannot be certain (or considered open-minded) unless they study others' beliefs seems to stem from the evolution of western thought and philosophy, where people began to lend more weight to their limited knowledge and intellect in preference to revelation, contesting it, until they lost certainty in religion, moving away from it altogether. Those who use their intellect within the confines of revelation, submitting to knowledge and wisdom far greater than all of humanity put together, are strangely regarded as 'narrow-minded' and backward.

The truth is that Muslims are the only people who have been gifted with certainty in what they believe. After all, theirs is the only unaltered scripture whose teachings continue to be followed in entirety until this very day. Its very beginning passages proclaim, This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah. [2:2] How can it be otherwise when God has taken a covenant with mankind before we set foot on this earth [see Qur'an 7:172-173], creating us on a disposition of monotheism. When the message is reinforcing what is already deeply ingrained, there can be nothing but certainty. Whilst the rest of the world remains in darkness regarding this message, we are humbled that God has bestowed on us this great light out of His Mercy and Grace. The intelligent one, then, is he who submits to this message, safeguards his faith and strives to remain steadfast, not one who gives ear to every doubt and argument to the extent that it erodes his faith and may send him back into darkness.

And leave alone those who take their religion as play and amusement, and whom the life of this world has deceived. But remind (them) with it (the Qur'an) lest a person be given up to destruction for that which he has earned, when he will find for himself no protector or intercessor besides Allah, and even if he offers every ransom, it will not be accepted from him. Such are they who are given up to destruction because of that which they have earned. For them will be a drink of boiling water and a painful torment because they used to disbelieve.

Say (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم): "Shall we invoke others besides Allah (false deities), that can do us neither good nor harm, and shall we turn back on our heels after Allah has guided us (to true Monotheism)? - like one whom the Shayatin (devils) have made to go astray in the land in confusion, his companions calling him to guidance (saying): 'Come to us.' " Say: "Verily, Allah's Guidance is the only guidance, and we have been commanded to submit (ourselves) to the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinn and all that exists);

And to perform As-Salat, and to be obedient to Allah and fear Him, and it is He to Whom you shall be gathered.


[Qur'an 6:70-72]
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glo
11-03-2013, 09:23 AM
Originally Posted by Insaanah
If you mean was he open minded to the idea that God had a son, no. The same way we would not be receptive to the idea that anybody other than our mother gave birth to us. We didn't see our own birth, yet we know who our mother is, even if we bear no resemblance, and nobody else can come along and say actually, this is not your mother, somebody else is. The same way, we know who our Creator and God is, and nobody else is our Lord and Sustainer but He. Nobody else is worthy of adoration and worship and submittance but He. The truth is one, and there is no compromise or open-mindedness with regards to it.
No, that's not at all what I meant, sister Insaanah.
Your reply made me chuckle.
This isn't the Comparative Religions section, so I certainly wasn't going to even touch on any Christian theology. I am slightly amused that it is one of our admin who brings the trinity into the discussion. :giggling:

* * *

Caller had made the statement that the best example of being open-minded was the prophet Muhammad (pbuh) himself. I was asking for examples and whether he showed this open-mindedness towards people from other religions and beliefs too.

By that I am not implying that he took on or accepted the beliefs of others. We don't need to corrupt our own beliefs to be able to engage with people from other faiths and none. And I am sure that Muhammad didn't do that either. :)

But I would like to know if he engaged with people from other faiths.
Did he meet with them, even socialise with them?
Did he discuss issues of the time with them, perhaps even sought their opinions and advice?
Or did he only do those things (as Caller mentioned) with his own companions?


I hope this makes my question clearer. :)
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Signor
11-03-2013, 05:06 PM
Assalamu Alaikum/Greetings

When I view open/close mindedness from a religious perspective,I look how much a religious person can show tolerance i.e to have a fair and objective attitude toward those whose opinions and practices differ from one’s own and to respect human dignity.

From M. Marmaduke Pickthall, English Historian and translator of the Qur’an:

“In the eyes of history, religious toleration is the highest evidence of culture in a people. It was not until the Western nations broke away from their religious law that they became more tolerant, and it was only when the Muslims fell away from their religious law that they declined in tolerance and other evidences of the highest culture. Therefore the difference evident in that anecdote is not of manners only, but of religion. Tolerance was regarded as un-religious, if not irreligious. Before the coming of Al-Islam it had never been preached as an essential part of religion.” - M. Marmaduke Pickthall, English Historian and translator of the Qur’an

And insult not those whom they worship besides Allah, lest they insult Allah wrongfully without knowledge. Thus We have made fair seeming to each people its own doings; then to their Lord is their return and He shall inform them of all that they used to do. - Al Anaam,Ayah 108

How many religions can declare this statement about others besides themselves??

Lo! those who believe (in that which is revealed unto thee, Muhammad(SAAWS), and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabaeans - whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doth right - surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve. (Al Baqarah:62)

Question arises WHY Islam put so much much emphasis on being tolerant(putting it in other terms remaining open-minded)

The answer lies in one word "UNIVERSALITY",a unique characteristic no religion can claim at its fullest(or they can claim but can't prove it altogether).Islam delivers a dynamic message for whole humanity through Quran which is in complete harmony with human natural needs.It speaks to the human heart as well as the human faculty of reason at the individual level and at the group level. It is a rational revelation that invites its readers to understand the signs of God, Allah (SWT) by logic and reasoning. The cardinal principles of good governance such as consultation, honesty and sincerity, impartiality and incorruptibility, accountability and transparency, justice for all without bias and prejudice, and human welfare for all and particularly for the poor and the needy, the deprived and the destitute was enshrined in the Qur’an long before the people of the world had even conceived of them.

Mankind! We created you from a male and female, and made you into peoples and tribes so that you might come to know each other. The noblest among you in Allah’s sight is that one of you who best performs his duty. Allah is All-Knowing, All-Aware.(Al-Hujurat 49:13)

“You are sons of Adam, and Adam came from dust. Let the people cease to boast about their ancestors.” (Abu Dawud)

“These genealogies of yours are not a reason to revile anyone. You are all children of Adam. No one has any superiority over another except in religion and taqwa (godliness).”
(Ahmad)

Coming back to topic in hand,Prophet Muhammad(SAAWS) focused on the humanity of the people he addressed, rather than on their differences in faith, ideas and lifestyles. In other words, he behaved in line with the idea that the people around him were human and possessed a life and soul. He did not base his actions on whether they were Muslim or not.The Prophet guaranteed the lives, property, honor and freedom of religion of the non-Muslims who lived among the Muslims, and he put a great emphasis on these issues.

Behaviour with People Of Book

The Holy Qur'an invites the People of the Book to accept the common doctrine (tawheed) with these words: “O People of the Book! Come to an agreement between us and you: that we shall worship none but Allah, and that we shall ascribe no partner unto Him, and that none of us shall take others for lords beside Allah.” Prophet(SAAWS) never departed from the path of justice, making no distinction between different religions, languages, or races.Despite theological disagreements and political disputes, Muhammad(SAAWS) remained respectful of Chrisitanity and Judaism. A few years before he died, when his leadership of the Arabs was generally accepted, a delegation of sixty Christians with scholars and judges among them arrived in Medina from the southern capitol of Najran. When meeting with the Prophet(SAAWS),he after returning their greetings, spoke to them in his friendly manner. As their discussion with the Prophet(SAAWS) in the mosque took quite a long time, it was time for their evening prayer as they prepared to pray, but some of the Prophet(SAAWS)’s followers wanted to prevent them from doing so. The Prophet(SAAWS) ordered them to let them offer their normal prayer then the discussion would be resumed. In a kind of interfaith council(Mubahilah in Islam) rare in those days, Muslims and Christians, joined by Medina's Jewish rabbis, sat together discussing and arguing the meaning of their beliefs. This occurred at a time when, not far to the north, Christians and Persians had been engaged for decades in massively destructive religious wars. When the council in Medina ended, the Najran Christians mounted their camels and rode peacefully back home.

The Treaty of Medina ,guaranteeing the coexistence of the various groups living in Medina with respect for each others’ presence and faith, was one of the first actions undertaken by Prophet Muhammad after arriving in Medina; this treaty also included the Jews and those who made treaties with them. Article 16 of this treaty guaranteed that the Jews who were the subjects of the Muslims according to the treaty would be allowed to continue their lives “without tyranny and without aid to their enemies.” Articles 18, 24, 37 and 45 specify the liabilities of those who signed the treaty in relation to issues of mutual defense and expenditures, whereas in Articles 23, 36 and 42 it is emphasized that Prophet Muhammad was the sole authority on the text of the treaty and the authority to be referred to in times of conflict. However this treaty did not last long and the Jewish tribes that had signed it violated the agreement one at a time. The Jews in Medina also strongly opposed the Muslims much like the Arab polytheists in Mecca did. Many Jews did not accept the revelation that Prophet Muhammad conveyed and acted together with the Arab polytheists against the Muslims.

In his attitudes towards non-Muslims, Prophet Muhammad never exhibited a collective approach that placed everybody on the same level; he always was aware that people have different strengths. It is significant that in the Meccan period he sent some Muslims who were overburdened by the oppression of the idolaters to Abyssinia, the state of the Christian ruler who was known for his justice, and said; “… That place is a land of truth. Stay there until Allah saves you from your predicament.” On the other hand, it is known that the non-Muslims, polytheists and the People of the Book occasionally were violent, hateful and hostile to the Prophet and the Muslims and their envy and jealousy of them was evident. The Holy Qur'an explicitly mentions the attitudes of the non-Muslims towards the Muslims, in particular those of the Jews and Christians who are considered the People of the Book. In the revelations imparted in Mecca related to the attitudes to be adopted towards non-Muslims (for instance, Al-Ankabut 46-47), it is commanded that Prophet Muhammad and the Muslims behave kindly towards the People of the Book and that the commonalities between them be emphasized. It is emphasized that the People of the Book also believed in the revelation that had been revealed to the Prophet. When these statements related to the Meccan period are taken into account, it is obvious that it was expected that the People of the Book, who came from a tradition of revelations, would accept the revelations imparted to Muhammad.

Ruling with Justice
Prophet Muhammad was always an unbiased arbitrator and leader who acted justly to defend the middle ground. His ability to arbitrate was recognized not only by the Muslims, but also by the non-Muslims. Probably for this reason, the non-Muslims asked him to arbitrate in the conflicts that occurred with the Muslims from time to time and in the problems they had amongst themselves. For some of the legal problems that occurred among the Jews, the Prophet ruled according to Jewish law. His commitment to justice and his reliable character were well-known long before he became a prophet. For example, he arbitrated in a disagreement among the Quraishis in Mecca regarding who should replace the al-Hajar al-Aswad (the Black Stone, considered holy even before the advent of Islam, as it is said to have descended from heaven) in the walls of the Ka'ba after renovations had been completed on the building. By finding a way for the tribes to cooperate equally in the task, he prevented a tense situation from escalating into war.

In daily life, Prophet Muhammad continued to have socio-economic relations with the non-Muslims; from time to time he gave and took loans from non-Muslims. There is a very interesting account of how the Prophet pawned his armor to a non-Muslim in return for a sum of money. According to Aisha, the Prophet passed away while his armor was still in pawn to a Jew (Bukhari and Muslim). Also, within the scope of the good relationships he had established with other people, the Prophet always accepted invitations from non-Muslims and listened to them. In fact, once he accepted an invitation from a Jewish man who then tried to assassinate him.

May the above would be beneficial InshaAllah(God willing)
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glo
11-03-2013, 08:26 PM
Thank you for your comprehensive post, Signor. It's a very interesting read and exactly what I was asking about.

Originally Posted by Signor
Coming back to topic in hand,Prophet Muhammad(SAAWS) focused on the humanity of the people he addressed, rather than on their differences in faith, ideas and lifestyles. In other words, he behaved in line with the idea that the people around him were human and possessed a life and soul. He did not base his actions on whether they were Muslim or not.The Prophet guaranteed the lives, property, honor and freedom of religion of the non-Muslims who lived among the Muslims, and he put a great emphasis on these issues.
I love the stories about the prophet meeting and relating to non-Muslims. I will try to find more about that when I have time. :)
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Muhammad
11-04-2013, 03:08 PM
Greetings,

Originally Posted by glo
This isn't the Comparative Religions section, so I certainly wasn't going to even touch on any Christian theology. I am slightly amused that it is one of our admin who brings the trinity into the discussion. :giggling:
It is good that the clarification was made, because in your first post you mentioned weighing one's 'beliefs and convictions' against those of others, so it seemed you were referring to theology.

But I would like to know if he engaged with people from other faiths.
Did he meet with them, even socialise with them?
Did he discuss issues of the time with them, perhaps even sought their opinions and advice?
Or did he only do those things (as Caller mentioned) with his own companions?
I had thought to mention some of these examples earlier but then I thought you weren't referring to this. :jz: brother Signor for addressing this aspect and providing so many good examples.

Another example that can be mentioned is the migration of the Prophet :saws: and his Companion Abubakr :ra: from Makkah to Madeenah. One of the precautions they took was to travel by unused and unknown roads, and to do this they sought the help of one who had expert knowledge about desert pathways. The person they hired was a polytheist. Still, the Prophet :saws: knew he could be trusted and did not hesitate in relying on his knowledge regardless of his faith.

Even after the Prophet :saws: left this world, his Companions manifested the truth he taught them:


Ali رضي الله عنه was walking in the market place when he saw a sheild, that had been stolen from him some time ago, in the possession of a Jew. He confronted the Jew and informed him that the sheild belonged to him. The Jew refused to return it and claimed that it was his. Ali رضي الله عنه decided to take the matter to court and requested Qadhi Shuraih to settle the dispute between them. Qadhi Shuraih was the Muslim judge of Kufa at the time and had been appointed by Ali رضي الله عنه himself.The following disscussion took place in court:

Shuraih; O Amir al Mu’minin, what is your claim?

Ali رضي الله عنه : “This sheild belongs to me.It was stolen from me some time ago.”

Shuraih; “What do you have to say , O Jew?”

Jew: “The Amir al Mu’minin is a grave liar! The sheild is mine.”

Shuraih; “Ali do you have any witnesses?”

Ali رضي الله عنه : “Yes. Hasan, my son, and Qunbar, my slave,are my witnesses.”

Shuraih; “The testimony of your slave is acceptable but your son cannot testify in your favour.”

Ali رضي الله عنه lost the case. He turned to the Jew, saying, “You may keep the sheild.”

Jew: “The Amir al Mu’minin brought me to a Muslim judge and is pleased with the judgement passed against him! You have spoken the truth, O Ali. The sheild was yours all along. I picked it up one day, after you had dropped it. I declare that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is his messenger .”

Ali رضي الله عنه gave the sheild to him anyway. He, thereafter, remained faithful to Ali رضي الله عنه until he was killed in the battle of Siffin.

Islamic justice applies equally to all men. No person is beyond the law.


Hayatus Sahabah, vol 1, p 193
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Signor
11-05-2013, 10:57 AM
Assalamu Alaikum

A member wrote to me in private about a certain statement,he/she don't feel like agreeing with.I made a small amendment to the "sentence in question" on how it should be read......

Originally Posted by Signor
Prophet(SAAWS) never departed from the path of justice(pause), making no distinction between different religions, languages, or races.
Lets begin this by quoting Astrophysicist,Historian and Author of The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History,Michael H. Hart.Micheal Hart,who remained Christian throughout his life,ranked Prophet Muhammad(SAAWS) on the top of the list.He said while defending his stance on giving Him this place:

"My choice of Muhammad (pbuh) to lead the list of world's most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in the history who was supremely successful on both the secular and religious level. It is probable that the relative influence of Islam has been larger than the combined influence of Jesus Christ and St. Paul on Christianity. It is this unparalleled combination of the secular and religious influence which I feel entitles Muhammad (pbuh) to be considered to be the most influential single figure in human history."

Michael Hart in "The 100, A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in the History," New York, 1978., p. 33

Mahatma Gandhi,an Indian politician and religious figure gave an statement published in "Young India," 1924

I wanted to know the best of the life of one who holds today an undisputed sway over the hearts of millions of mankind..........I became more than ever convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet, the scrupulous regard for pledges, his intense devotion to his friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and his mission.

These and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every obstacle. When I closed the second volume (of the Prophet's biography), I was sorry there was no more for me to read of that great life."

George Bernard Shaw echoed what Hart said:

He was by far the most remarkable man that ever set foot on this earth. He preached a religion, founded a state, built a nation, laid down a moral code, initiated numerous social and political reforms, established a powerful and dynamic society to practice and represent his teachings and completely revolutionized the worlds of human thought and behavior for all times to come.

How come all aforementioned men reached the same conclusion while belonging from other school of thoughts and/or religions??

As I wrote earlier:

Originally Posted by Signor
Islam delivers a dynamic message for whole humanity through Quran which is in complete harmony with human natural needs.It speaks to the human heart as well as the human faculty of reason at the individual level and at the group level. It is a rational revelation that invites its readers to understand the signs of God, Allah (SWT) by logic and reasoning. The cardinal principles of good governance such as consultation, honesty and sincerity, impartiality and incorruptibility, accountability and transparency, justice for all without bias and prejudice, and human welfare for all and particularly for the poor and the needy, the deprived and the destitute was enshrined in the Qur’an long before the people of the world had even conceived of them.
and What was Prophet's(SAAWS) Life,the living embodiment of the Quran.

"It was by the mercy of Allah that you were gentle with them (O, Mohammad) for if you had been harsh and hard of heart they would of dispersed from around you. So pardon them and pray forgiveness for them and consult with them in the affair" (Quran 3:159).

Prophet Mohammad's (SAAWS) attitude was a factor in attracting people to Islam. Any Prophet who wants to summon people to God should also be gentle and lenient in his personal attitude. The Prophet [SAW] advised people with the kindest, most merciful manners and admonished others to do the same.He is a person who speaks with a pure intention, with a sincere desire that the truth be established.In short,Ad deenu naseeha(The Deen is advice).Thus a man who talks or preaches from his heart with sincerity, will win the hearts of others, and whoever talks and preaches from his mouth, his words will not penetrate hearts. In the messages delivered by men of God, this point is clearly observed but not in the messages of other leaders of the world.

However,a clear distinction need to be made so the lines will not get blurred.The Holy Prophet (SAAWS) was very firm when it came to principles and showed no flexibility or softness. If some one insulted him, he would forgive them kindly, because that was something related to himself. But if anyone violated Islamic laws and rulings, the Holy Prophet(SAAWS) would treat them with severity and justice.I am going to lay down few more examples from His life.First two based on how he reacts to things as an Individual and the last one is how he deals when principles are involved.

Taif's Journey
Narrated on the authority of 'A'isha, the wife of the Prophet (may peace be upon him), who said to the Messenger of Allah (may peace he upon him): Messenger of Allah, has there come upon you a day more terrible than the day of Ubud. He said: I have experienced from thy people and the hardest treatment I met from them was what I received from them on the day of 'Aqaba. I betook myself to Ibn Abd Yalil b. Abd Kulal with the purpose of inviting him to Islam, but he did not respond to me as I desired. So I departed with signs of (deep) distress on my face. I did not recover until I reached Qarn al-Tha'alib. Where I raised my head, lo! near me was a cloud which had cast its shadow on me. I looked and lo! there was in it the angel Jibril who called out to me and said.: God. the Honoured and Glorious, has heard what thy people have said to thee, and how they have reacted to thy call. And He has sent to thee the angel in charge of the mountains so that thou mayest order him what thou wishest (him to do) with, regard to them. The angel in charge of the mountains (then) called out to me, greeted me and said: Muhammad, God has listened to what thy people have said to thee. I am the angel in charge of the mountains. and thy Lord has sent me to thee so that thou mayest order me what thou wishest. If thou wishest that I should bring together the two mountains that stand opposite to each other at the extremities of Mecca to crush them in between, (I would do that). But the Messenger of Allah (may peace he upon him) said to him: I rather hope that God will produce from their descendants such persons as will worship Allah, the One,and will not ascribe partners to Him.

Sahih Muslim,The Book of Jihad and Expedition (Kitab Al-Jihad wal-Siyar),Hadith No 4425

Al-Hudaibiyah Treaty
Narrated Al-Bara:When the Prophet intended to perform 'Umra in the month of Dhul-Qada, the people of Mecca did not let him enter Mecca till he settled the matter with them by promising to stay in it for three days only. When the document of treaty was written, the following was mentioned: 'These are the terms on which Muhammad, Allah's Apostle agreed (to make peace).' They said, "We will not agree to this, for if we believed that you are Allah's Apostle we would not prevent you, but you are Muhammad bin 'Abdullah." The Prophet said, "I am Allah's Apostle and also Muhammad bin 'Abdullah." Then he said to 'Ali, "Rub off (the words) 'Allah's Apostle' ", but 'Ali said, "No, by Allah, I will never rub off your name." So, Allah's Apostle
took the document and wrote, 'This is what Muhammad bin 'Abdullah has agreed upon: No arms will be brought into Mecca except in their cases, and nobody from the people of Mecca will be allowed to go with him (i.e. the Prophet ) even if he wished to follow him and he (the Prophet ) will not prevent any of his companions from staying in Mecca if the latter wants to stay.' When the Prophet entered Mecca and the time limit passed, the Meccans went to 'Ali and said, "Tell your Friend (i.e. the Prophet ) to go out, as the period (agreed to) has passed." So, the Prophet went out of Mecca. The daughter of Hamza ran after them (i.e. the Prophet and his companions), calling, "O Uncle! O Uncle!" 'Ali received her and led her by the hand and said to Fatima, "Take your uncle's daughter." Zaid and Ja'far quarrel ed about her. 'Ali said, "I have more right to her as she is my uncle's daughter." Ja'far said, "She is my uncle's daughter, and her aunt is my wife." Zaid said, "She is my brother's daughter." The Prophet judged that she should be given to her aunt, and said that the aunt was like the mother. He then said to 'All, "You are from me and I am from you", and said to Ja'far, "You resemble me both in character and appearance", and said to Zaid, "You are our brother (in faith) and our freed slave."

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 49, Number 863

It has been narrated on the authority of Anas that the Quraish made peace with the Prophet (may peace be upon him). Among them was Suhail b.Amr. The Prophet (may peace be upon him) said to 'Ali: Write" In the name of Allah, most Gracious and most Merciful." Suhail said: As for" Bismillah," we do not know what is meant by" Bismillah-ir-Rahman-ir-Rahim" (In the name of Allah most Gracious and most Merciful). But write what we understand, i. e. Bi ismika allahumma (in thy name. O Allah). Then, the Prophet (may peace be upon him) said: Write:" From Muhammad, the Messenger of Allah." They said: If we knew that thou welt the Messenger of Allah, we would follow you. Therefore, write your name and the name of
your father. So the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) said: Write" From Muhammad b. 'Abdullah." They laid the condition on the Prophet (may peace be upon him) that anyone who joined them from the Muslims, the Meccans would not return him, and anyone who joined you (the Muslims) from them, you would send him back to them. The Companions said: Messenger of Allah, should we write this? He said: Yes. One who goes away from us to join them-may Allah keep him away! and one who comes to join us from them (and is sent back) Allah will provide him relief and a way of escape.

Sahih Muslim,Book 019, Number 4404

Theft by Quraishi Woman
Narrated 'Aisha:The Quraish people became very worried about the Makhzumiya lady who had committed theft. They said, "Nobody can speak (in favor of the lady) to Allah's Apostle and nobody dares do that except Usama who is the favorite of Allah's Apostle. " When Usama spoke to Allah's
Apostle about that matter, Allah's Apostle said, "Do you intercede (with me) to violate one of the legal punishment of Allah?" Then he got up and addressed the people, saying, "O people! The nations before you went astray because if a noble person committed theft, they used to leave him, but if a weak person among them committed theft, they used to inflict the legal punishment on him. By Allah, if Fatima, the daughter of Muhammad committed theft, Muhammad will cut off her hand.!"

Sahih Bukhari,Volume 8, Book 81,Number779

Insha Allah this will helps to clear many things out.
Reply

greenhill
11-16-2013, 04:19 PM
Salaams


Interesting...

Seeing as it is a very 'open' subject, it will be 'vaguely' defined by many people differently. Even in being opened minded we vary depending on subjects we discuss. We may be open minded in one matter but very closed minded in another.

For me, to be opened minded is to be ready to accept (with vetting) that there may a 'better' way than the one you know. In other words, to potentially improve on what you have. It does not mean that you will have to entertain stupid debates. To be broad minded is slightly different in the way that it kind of reflects in the action that you take, in consideration of other people.

Peace :shade:
Reply

ardianto
11-16-2013, 04:35 PM
For me open minded is ability to see something from various angles, not from one point of view only.

Agree?. It's okay if you disagree with me. I understand if you see this thing from different point of view.

:)
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greenhill
11-16-2013, 04:51 PM
If we take it a step further (or backwards) can we also agree that in order to be "open minded" we first need to have an opinion on a subject and open for debate? Quite different from being open minded from having no opinions...

Just a thought...:hmm:
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Eric H
11-17-2013, 09:35 AM
Greetings and peace,

I saw the film of Mahatma Gandhi who was a Hindu, in the film a Hindu came to him and says I am cursed for I have killed an innocent Muslim.

Gandhi replied, adopt a Muslim orphan, and bring him up to be a good Muslim, and you must be to him like a Muslim father.

In the spirit of praying to 'One God'

Eric
Reply

glo
11-17-2013, 11:05 AM
Originally Posted by Eric H
Gandhi replied, adopt a Muslim orphan, and bring him up to be a good Muslim, and you must be to him like a Muslim father.
That's an amazing statement to make. How many of us would give such advice about the followers of other faiths?
Reply

greenhill
11-17-2013, 11:16 AM
Originally Posted by Eric H
Gandhi replied, adopt a Muslim orphan, and bring him up to be a good Muslim, and you must be to him like a Muslim father.
I remember this story..... hmmmm would that be open minded or broad minded or neither? It is almost inspirational :statisfie....


Peace :shade:
Reply

Eric H
11-17-2013, 05:34 PM
Greetings and peace be with you greenhill;

I remember this story..... hmmmm would that be open minded or broad minded or neither? It is almost inspirational :statisfie....


Peace :shade:
The words only become inspirational if they inspire someone to act on them. In the UK it is the start of 'Interfaith Week today, there are events all over the country, .

Interfaith week is not asking us to change our core beliefs; but it might give us the opportunity to open our hearts and minds to people of other faiths, we are all created by the same God despite all our differences.

In the spirit of praying for a greater interfaith friendship

Eric
Reply

glo
11-17-2013, 06:10 PM
Originally Posted by Eric H
Interfaith week is not asking us to change our core beliefs; but it might give us the opportunity to open our hearts and minds to people of other faiths, we are all created by the same God despite all our differences.
Well said, Eric. :)
Reply

Eric H
11-17-2013, 08:52 PM
Greetings and peace be with you;

I live near a town where a few centuries ago, Catholics and Anglicans were killing each other in major battles. A hundred years ago, we may have stopped killing each other, but we continued to call the other lot heretics.

I now feel a great privilege and blessing that we are now able to come together and pray with each other and pray for each other.

Last week I prayed in a Salvation Army Church, Anglican Church, Baptist Church and my own Catholic Church. On Friday night an Anglican and a Baptist prayed with me before we went out on the streets as a part of the Street Pastor Team, I place all my trust in these prayers before we go out.

We met a 65 year old homeless lady and her son, they did not want anything to eat, but we bought them a drink. We gave out lots of sweets and we give flip flops to girls who can no longer walk in their high heels. Every time we go out, people thank us for being unpaid volunteers and showing care in the community.

About 2.30 am we came across a fight, my street pastor partner and I are both in our 60’s, she is a tiny little lady, and between us we held onto the biggest lad and tried to separate him from his opponent. We stopped with a group of lads who were trying to provoke further fighting, until the biggest lad again told us to go away, he said we were intimidating him.

We stopped to intimidate them a while longer, but it became clear to us they still wanted to resolve their differences probably with another punch up.

I took my phone out and said we are leaving but I am going to phone the police, I am not confident you will resolve this peacefully. At the end of our shift, we phoned the CCTV people and asked about the lads we had left, they said they observed them after we had phoned the first time, the lads had talked, then shook hands and left.

At the end a Baptist, Anglican and two Catholics were able to thank God for a peaceful conclusion to the night

It would be my hope and prayers that we might be able to do something similar, but with interfaith partners.

In the spirit of praying to 'One God'

Eric
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
12-08-2013, 10:57 PM
glo I honestly feel that our beloved Sallallahi alaihi wasallaam was an example of being open minded in everything he done.

You cant be the only messenger with a handful of believers and have the heart and patience to welcome every single disbeliever into the embrace of God without being open-minded.

In this same manner our beloved Messenger Isa (Jesus) was also open minded, as was Musa (Moses) and the other messengers and prophets :) peace be upon them
Reply

Signor
04-23-2015, 09:02 AM
Originally Posted by Signor
Behaviour with People Of Book
The Holy Qur'an invites the People of the Book to accept the common doctrine (tawheed) with these words: “O People of the Book! Come to an agreement between us and you: that we shall worship none but Allah, and that we shall ascribe no partner unto Him, and that none of us shall take others for lords beside Allah.” Prophet(SAAWS) never departed from the path of justice, making no distinction between different religions, languages, or races.Despite theological disagreements and political disputes, Muhammad(SAAWS) remained respectful of Chrisitanity and Judaism. A few years before he died, when his leadership of the Arabs was generally accepted, a delegation of sixty Christians with scholars and judges among them arrived in Medina from the southern capitol of Najran. When meeting with the Prophet(SAAWS),he after returning their greetings, spoke to them in his friendly manner. As their discussion with the Prophet(SAAWS) in the mosque took quite a long time, it was time for their evening prayer as they prepared to pray, but some of the Prophet(SAAWS)’s followers wanted to prevent them from doing so. The Prophet(SAAWS) ordered them to let them offer their normal prayer then the discussion would be resumed. In a kind of interfaith council(Mubahilah in Islam) rare in those days, Muslims and Christians, joined by Medina's Jewish rabbis, sat together discussing and arguing the meaning of their beliefs. This occurred at a time when, not far to the north, Christians and Persians had been engaged for decades in massively destructive religious wars. When the council in Medina ended, the Najran Christians mounted their camels and rode peacefully back home.

The Treaty of Medina ,guaranteeing the coexistence of the various groups living in Medina with respect for each others’ presence and faith, was one of the first actions undertaken by Prophet Muhammad after arriving in Medina; this treaty also included the Jews and those who made treaties with them. Article 16 of this treaty guaranteed that the Jews who were the subjects of the Muslims according to the treaty would be allowed to continue their lives “without tyranny and without aid to their enemies.” Articles 18, 24, 37 and 45 specify the liabilities of those who signed the treaty in relation to issues of mutual defense and expenditures, whereas in Articles 23, 36 and 42 it is emphasized that Prophet Muhammad was the sole authority on the text of the treaty and the authority to be referred to in times of conflict. However this treaty did not last long and the Jewish tribes that had signed it violated the agreement one at a time. The Jews in Medina also strongly opposed the Muslims much like the Arab polytheists in Mecca did. Many Jews did not accept the revelation that Prophet Muhammad conveyed and acted together with the Arab polytheists against the Muslims.

In his attitudes towards non-Muslims, Prophet Muhammad never exhibited a collective approach that placed everybody on the same level; he always was aware that people have different strengths. It is significant that in the Meccan period he sent some Muslims who were overburdened by the oppression of the idolaters to Abyssinia, the state of the Christian ruler who was known for his justice, and said; “… That place is a land of truth. Stay there until Allah saves you from your predicament.” On the other hand, it is known that the non-Muslims, polytheists and the People of the Book occasionally were violent, hateful and hostile to the Prophet and the Muslims and their envy and jealousy of them was evident. The Holy Qur'an explicitly mentions the attitudes of the non-Muslims towards the Muslims, in particular those of the Jews and Christians who are considered the People of the Book. In the revelations imparted in Mecca related to the attitudes to be adopted towards non-Muslims (for instance, Al-Ankabut 46-47), it is commanded that Prophet Muhammad and the Muslims behave kindly towards the People of the Book and that the commonalities between them be emphasized. It is emphasized that the People of the Book also believed in the revelation that had been revealed to the Prophet. When these statements related to the Meccan period are taken into account, it is obvious that it was expected that the People of the Book, who came from a tradition of revelations, would accept the revelations imparted to Muhammad.

Ruling with Justice
Prophet Muhammad was always an unbiased arbitrator and leader who acted justly to defend the middle ground. His ability to arbitrate was recognized not only by the Muslims, but also by the non-Muslims. Probably for this reason, the non-Muslims asked him to arbitrate in the conflicts that occurred with the Muslims from time to time and in the problems they had amongst themselves. For some of the legal problems that occurred among the Jews, the Prophet ruled according to Jewish law. His commitment to justice and his reliable character were well-known long before he became a prophet. For example, he arbitrated in a disagreement among the Quraishis in Mecca regarding who should replace the al-Hajar al-Aswad (the Black Stone, considered holy even before the advent of Islam, as it is said to have descended from heaven) in the walls of the Ka'ba after renovations had been completed on the building. By finding a way for the tribes to cooperate equally in the task, he prevented a tense situation from escalating into war.

In daily life, Prophet Muhammad continued to have socio-economic relations with the non-Muslims; from time to time he gave and took loans from non-Muslims. There is a very interesting account of how the Prophet pawned his armor to a non-Muslim in return for a sum of money. According to Aisha, the Prophet passed away while his armor was still in pawn to a Jew (Bukhari and Muslim). Also, within the scope of the good relationships he had established with other people, the Prophet always accepted invitations from non-Muslims and listened to them. In fact, once he accepted an invitation from a Jewish man who then tried to assassinate him.
I want to add this article and takes this argument a little bit further about Prophet Muhammad's:saws: behavior:

Human life on Earth will neither prosper nor enjoy stability unless it is established upon a foundation of justice. All of the sacred scriptures call people to being just. The crux of Islamic law is the realization of justice.

Allah says: "And the word of your Lord has been accomplished in truth and justice; there is none who can change His words, and He is the Hearing, the Knowing. " [Sûrah al-An`âm: 115]

All people instinctively crave justice for themselves and despise being oppressed. In spite of this, far too many people treat other people unjustly. Too many people fail to be offended when injustice is perpetrated against their fellow human beings.

If Muslims really understood the how important justice is to the objectives and purposes of Islam, then the first quality of religiousness that would appear in a person who has renewed his commitment to his faith would be that the person would act justly. We would only see people who were just, and who were upright and in their dealings with others.

Likewise, if the Muslims realized how heinous a crime oppression is in Islam, they would be quicker to repent for oppression than many of the lesser sins that they shed tears about.

It is a great pity that many of the people who repent for their sins and renew their commitment to Islam change everything in their lives except for their conduct towards others. They are just as unfair, as cruel, and as inconsiderate of the rights of others as they ever were. This comes as no surprise, since their understanding of Islam is focused only on the rights their Lord has over them, and is blind to the rights of their fellow human beings. As a consequence, their "uprightness" is only seen in the practices concerning their direct relationship with their Lord.

The resurrection and judgment in the Hereafter is a manifestation of divine justice. Justice starts in the Hereafter when retaliation is formally carried out between all the creatures that have been gathered after the resurrection. Even the animals will be recompensed. The hornless sheep will get its redress from the horned sheep that abused it. This justice will be fully realized when all legally accountable beings sent forward to their final destinations.

Would it be just for our Lord to let the deeds of those who engage in making things better for others and the deeds of the cruel and iniquitous simply get absorbed into the Earth after the people who carried out those deeds are placed in their graves? Would it be right that those who were good and honest find the same end as those who were treacherous and oppressive? The dictates of justice demand that there will be a judgment in the Hereafter.

There is no meaning to honor without rights. A human being who lives without rights lives without dignity. Allah has honored Adam's descendant, so He is not pleased when they are oppressed and their rights are violated.

Justice is the most essential of human rights from which all other rights are derived. Only within the context of justice can other human rights be upheld and guaranteed. All other rights are qualified in one way or another. They all have their limits, the frontiers beyond which the exercise of those rights transgresses upon the rights of others. For instance, people do not have unbridled freedom to do whatever they like.

This is not the case with justice. It is the only right that is absolute. There are no exceptions to it. It is the right of everybody to be treated justly and everyone's duty to be just. Justice is the right of relatives and strangers. It is the right of the rich and the poor. It is the right of friend and foe. It is the right of people who share one's religion and of those who disbelieve in it. It is everyone's right in times of war just as much as it is in times of peace.

Allah says: "O you who believe! Stand out firmly for Allah, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety: and fear Allah. For Allah is well-acquainted with all that you do.” [Sûrah al-Mâ’idah: 8]

He says: "O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest you swerve, and if you distort justice or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted with all that you do." [Sûrah al-Nisâ’: 135]

This verse shows us that we should not be unjust to anyone, rich or poor. We often think of this in the context of the poor, since they often suffer injustice at the hands of those who have wealth and power. However, the verse is also telling us that we should not allow our sympathies for a poor person cause us to be unjust to others for the poor person's sake. This is why Allah says: "…for Allah can best protect both."

Justice is not necessitated by love. We do not treat people justly because we like them or are partial to them. If that were the case, there would be no need to command justice, since people are naturally just to those they favor. We need to be commanded with justice when dealing with those we have no favorable feelings towards.

Justice is necessitated by nothing other than our shared humanity. We must be just towards all human beings, regardless of religion, race, ethnicity, or gender. Justice is the greatest means of ensuring human dignity and human rights. Justice is what people ask for and expect from each other, regardless of their affiliations, loyalties, affections, and prejudices.

Justice is not something that exists only in the courtroom. It is not something only judges decide. It is the way we as people should conduct ourselves with each other in the course of our daily lives. We should instill it in our children from the time they are small. It should be the first manner of conduct that our preachers and Islamic workers should call people towards. All people should be embraced by it without exception. No one is above justice. No one is excluded from it and no one is exempted from it.

Source
Reply

Feride
04-23-2015, 01:27 PM
There are many examples and arguments in the modern world, bros and srs. Particularly in the modern islamic society. For instance, some people could argue that going on halal holidays is haraam, given that going on holidays can potentially be haraam itself, thus the term halal holidays is contradictory. Others argue that it's an example of how Islam can adjust in to today's society - from a more open - minded perspective.

What are you thoughts on this?

Feride
Reply

greenhill
04-23-2015, 05:17 PM
When we veer down that road, it is useful to take stock of the roots to things and how it evolved through the ages.

Holidays came from, surprise! surprise! Holy Day. When the day is about God. No work takes place.

Nowadays, it's just about not working and nothing holy about it happens. In fact the opposite. Party! Fun, fun and more fun. Or totally do nothing and become unproductive.

If we remember surah Al Asr (103) it tells us that we humans waste much time (being unproductive for the hereafter). Like music, a total distraction from the remembrance of Allah, 'holidaying' is much the same. . . Unless it is really a Holy Day.

:peace:
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