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dusk
09-16-2012, 06:53 PM
I am member of a few forums on philosophy religion in general and politics.
I must admit I joined here because of the current unrests in the arabic world. Otherwise my intrest in Islam would be just the same as my interest in Orthodox Christianity.
I was raised to tolerant humanist values and seeing myself loosing respect for Muslims. :(
Even the moderate peaceful Islam for lack of visibility, activism or an odd take on reality.

I hope for some answers to questions that don't seem to be answered anywhere.
Like is there any plan for the middle east? What happened to the activism of the arab spring?
Is it all populism and how happy are Muslims with the development in the countries currently in the news.

I am an Atheist, Apatheist, Agnostic (depending on the god concept in question), Skeptic, Pastafarian, Transhumanist and Absurdism guy. Unfortunately Atheist was the only thing one can choose here. I am happy to join any god discussions but that is not really why I joined this forum as I discussed those on other forums. The theist side was usually occupied by Christians or Jews in those forums, it would be interesting to see what would be different with Muslims. The god concept should be the same as in monotheistic.
My father is a Christian theologian and while I share my interest for philosophy with him, at no point in my life as long as I can remember was I ever a theist.

mfg dusk
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- Qatada -
09-16-2012, 08:19 PM
Hey, heres a good start: http://islamreligion.com :)
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- Qatada -
09-16-2012, 08:20 PM
Originally Posted by - Qatada -
Hey, heres a good start: http://islamreligion.com :)
I forgot to mention, this too: http://muslimatheists.wordpress.com/
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~Zaria~
09-16-2012, 08:49 PM
Welcome to IB.

God-willingly, you will be able to find your answers here.

I highly doubt the answers to life will be found within any of these:

Originally Posted by dusk

I am an Atheist, Apatheist, Agnostic (depending on the god concept in question), Skeptic, Pastafarian, Transhumanist and Absurdism guy.
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sister herb
09-16-2012, 08:51 PM
Hello to you

Welcome to forum.

What if you just introduce yourself in this section and then make your questions in some more suitable section, like in general? That would be easier to all of us.
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dusk
09-17-2012, 01:08 AM
Originally Posted by sister harb
What if you just introduce yourself in this section and then make your questions in some more suitable section, like in general? That would be easier to all of us.
I intend to it is just not possible to post anywhere but here just yet.
Originally Posted by ~Zaria~
I highly doubt the answers to life will be found within any of these:
That is a matter of perspective and aim.
Originally Posted by - Qatada -
I forgot to mention, this too: ./I am not allowed to post links not even ones I quote:nervous:
Thanks for the links, but
I don't want to get into the first link. I have had enough debates with Christians apologists. As for the wordpress the title is a quite weird at least the one s is too much. I read a couple of the blog posts and I am definitely not going to find any answers there.
Neither of these links seem helpful. Towards the bias post that is currently the newest I would comment that bias leads to many assertions that are accept often without proper investigation. Many of the good theologians make those mistakes (Hans Küng who is otherwise quite brilliant). Graig writes objectivity it is not impossible but difficult. He is right in that, I did find a handful that do not fall victim to mistakes resulting from insufficient understanding and investigation of ones own bias. Those debates are very interesting but Graig is not one of them. The statements dismiss an accusation without properly investigating the factors that go into objective ratio and how bias can be understood and factored in. The train of thought of saying it is possible therefore I am doing it misses the argument of the postmodernists and why they formulate their accusation the way they do. He also seems to make a reductionist mistake of debating on a different abstraction level and completely missing to address the actual accusation. That from an apologist who so often preach against reductionism, one would think he takes care on such issues.

But I didn't mean to start a debate in this introductory thread. In case you are interested in debating some of those topics in the blog open a thread an send me a PM.
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جوري
09-17-2012, 01:20 AM
Originally Posted by dusk
Apatheist,
Originally Posted by dusk
seeing myself loosing respect for Muslims
Originally Posted by dusk
an odd take on reality
You've already described yourself in such a way that you make it impossible for yourself to generate interest or respect and that is in fact a reflection on you as a person not Islam or Muslims. I find atheists to have the oddest take on reality but I haven't lost sleep over it, nor have I joined any atheist forums (of late) to profess my apathy.
so question remains is what are you looking for joining here?

best,
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Perseveranze
09-17-2012, 02:00 AM
Ah, typically, Christianity and Judaism say this and that, so Islam must also be the same.

That's the impression I get with your kind of thinking.
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جوري
09-17-2012, 02:53 AM
Originally Posted by Perseveranze
That's the impression I get with your kind of thinking.
You got that he's 'thinking' how pray do tell? I have been around long enough to know that poop comes in different consistences, shapes and colors but it is still what it is!
The mystery remains is why should we care? I notice when we care they don't like it and call us Barbarians, and yet they'd bait us into drivel while already advertising their apathy. Nay-- I say the door is thata way>>>>>>>>>>>>

"Whenever I argue with a fool, I lose" -- Ali ibn Abi Talib (ra)
at any rate he has also stated:


Originally Posted by dusk
I didn't mean to start a debate
he's apathetic, unamused, bored and not interested in a debate- what's left?
hhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmm? so many conundrums running amok on the forum tonight.
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dusk
09-17-2012, 02:43 PM
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
I find atheists to have the oddest take on reality but I haven't lost sleep over it
With reality I was referring to political not spiritual. I did state that I am more interested in the political aspects than the theological.
Differences between Atheists and theists do not really play into that. Nor is it Islam that really stands to the question.
It is the general perception of other cultures and countries. A perception intrinsic to people that is often shared locally regardless of religion or denomination.
Originally Posted by Perseveranze
Ah, typically, Christianity and Judaism say this and that, so Islam must also be the same.
That's the impression I get with your kind of thinking.
Well it is not like I haven't debated some Muslims before. I did hear the all the usual suspects of arguments and trains of thought. I admit that this was a simple assumption but assuming the opposite especially after reading that first link posted would be weird. If you'd refer me too some good youtube debates or threads on this forum I'd be very interested. There are many arguments all monotheists share so I do put them into the same boat at least on many fundamental issues.
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
The mystery remains is why should we care? I notice when we care they don't like it and call us Barbarians, and yet they'd bait us into drivel while already advertising their apathy.
Why you should care I don't know but in general I think better understanding of each other is the only way for mutual respect. You act as if you think it impossible to make your case or that I would not listen. I merely tried to honestly say why I joined and that my primary interest is in the political worldly realm and I am seeking the opinions and arguments of the people of Islam for I think it rather fruitless to endlessly discuss such topics in among like minded people in other forums. Is politics forbidden in this forum? I am open to any theological debates too but I would lie if I said that is my primary concern.
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
he's apathetic, unamused, bored and not interested in a debate- what's left?
Honestly what is the problem? I didn't want to start a debate here in this introductory thread as sister harb truthfully stated it is not the ideal place and would be better put in a specific thread with a topic.
If you have a thread that you think I should read point me to it.
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جوري
09-17-2012, 02:56 PM
Originally Posted by dusk
With reality I was referring to political not spiritual. I did state that I am more interested in the political aspects than the theological.
Differences between Atheists and theists do not really play into that. Nor is it Islam that really stands to the question.
It is the general perception of other cultures and countries. A perception intrinsic to people that is often shared locally regardless of religion or denomination.
You can't be interested in politics without understanding jurisprudence. The Judiciary matters is an entire and complete system. Since the dissolution of the Ottomans we've not had such a system in place so in fact anything going on in the middle east now is a result of folks trying to break away from western imperialism (political or physical) western constitutions from 200 years ago with whatever coercions, tariffs and lack of understanding of the geopolitical and socio-economic conditions of the region plus ridding of western instated despots to return to the only law that has ever worked for them with success to all its members. So obviously you can't pick and choose the aspects that you think are important when it is a lump sum that contributes. If that makes you lose respect then I again repeat is a reflection on your understanding or lack thereof of the bigger picture!

Originally Posted by dusk
Why you should care I don't know but in general I think better understanding of each other is the only way for mutual respect. You act as if you think it impossible to make your case or that I would not listen. I merely tried to honestly say why I joined and that my primary interest is in the political worldly realm and I am seeking the opinions and arguments of the people of Islam for I think it rather fruitless to endlessly discuss such topics in among like minded people in other forums. Is politics forbidden in this forum? I am open to any theological debates too but I would lie if I said that is my primary concern.
Respect isn't very important right now it is ancillary and the feeling is entirely mutual. I think we should remedy our wounds before trying to see how ugly they appear to you!
Politics isn't forbidden but I personally don't respond well to reverse psychology if that is what you're driving at!

Originally Posted by dusk
Honestly what is the problem? I didn't want to start a debate here in this introductory thread as sister harb truthfully stated it is not the ideal place and would be better put in a specific thread with a topic.
If you have a thread that you think I should read point me to it.
I have no interest in pointing you toward any particular thread. The first impression has already been generated!
best,
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