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~Zaria~
09-19-2012, 05:31 AM
Assalamu-alaikum brothers and sisters,

Im not expecting everyone to be in complete agreement with the article.......the most knowledgeable scholars have not reached consensus on different matters - and this is fine.
This is the beauty of Islam.

But, just reflect on what is happening around the world at the moment, and if this is in line with the commandments of Allah (subhanawatáala) and the way of the prophet (sallalahu alaihi wasalam).



Mocking the Prophet, How Should We React?


16 September, 2012 by Anas Hlayhel








How should we Muslim react to mockery of our Prophet Muḥammad ṣallallāhu 'alayhi wa sallam (peace and blessings of Allāh be upon him) or should we even react at all?

Just like the cartoons few years ago, the Muslim response to the recent film has been very diverse. From the very mild of responses to the very violent ones, what's most noteworthy is the enormity of the response. Despite the consensus that the film did not deserve the attention it was getting, social media kept being flooded, and still is, with messages defending the Prophet ṣallallāhu 'alayhi wa sallam (peace and blessings of Allāh be upon him). So, before another incident of mockery takes place, since it seems that it's only a matter of time before someone else tries to play on the sensitivities of Muslims, let's take some time to examine what the Qur'an has to say about this very issue.

Mockery is Tantamount to Ignorance

Almost every Muslim knows the story of the Cow (Sūrat'l-Baqarah). After all, the longest chapter of the Qur'an is named after this story. To get to the gist, there was an unsolved murder that happened among the Children of Israel during the time of Moses [as] (Mūsa). So Allāh revealed to Moses that in order to solve the murder your people have to slaughter a cow. Of course, when Moses told his people of God's command, their first reaction was shock and disbelief (e.g. what's slaughtering a cow got to do with solving a murder?). The Qur'an says:





“Remember when Moses said to his people, 'God commands you to sacrifice a cow', they said, 'are you making fun of us?' He answered, 'God forbid that I should be so ignorant'” [2:67]

So initially, the Children of Israel thought that Moses was mocking them. But Moses quickly corrected that mockery could never come from a Prophet and he distanced himself from such an act by the expression familiar to Muslims “I seek refuge in God from”. But what we usually miss from this verse is the fact that Moses equated mockery to ignorance. So a learned man (or woman) should never mock anyone or anything under any circumstance. So the next question becomes, how do we deal with ignorance or ignorant people?

Ignore the Ignorant

The Qur'an tells us to dismiss the people of ignorance and not to give a lot of attention to them. It asks us to not engage with them in any conversation, except perhaps to safeguard ourselves from greater harm. For example:





“Be tolerant, command what's right, pay no attention to foolish people” [7:199]

This is such an important matter that the Qur'an makes it one of the traits of the People of God:





“The Servants of the Lord of Mercy are those who walk humbly on Earth, and who, when the foolish address them, reply 'Peace'” [25:63]

The scholars of Qur'an have differed on the meaning of “peace” here. Some take it literally that you simply say the Muslim greeting of “Peace”. But others have argued that “Peace” here means that you end the conversation in a peaceful manner. Regardless of the difference in interpretation, I think we can all agree that the message of the Qur'an is to ignore the ignorant.

On the other hand, we see the Qur'an encouraging us to engage with the people of reason and to even debate them if they have a different point of view:





“Call people to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good teaching, and argue with them in the most courteous way” [16:125]

I mention this here so no one comes and says that Islam forbids conversation with “others.” In fact, Islam encourages debate and the exchanging arguments. But people who mock a religious symbol are not interested in debate or logical arguments. It is the lack of logical arguments that makes them resort to mockery in the first place!

Spare Me the Mockery

We can't leave this subject without contemplating a very interesting verse that speaks to the heart of the issue at hand. This verse address the Prophet Muḥammad ṣallallāhu 'alayhi wa sallam (peace and blessings of Allāh be upon him) himself. It says:





“We have spared you those who ridicule you” [15:95]

In essence, the Qur'an is telling us that when it specifically comes to the issue of mocking the Prophet [SAW], which is exactly the issue that we are dealing with today. Don't take matters in your own hands, rather, God will take care of those who mock the Prophet.

A Call to Respect the Sanctity of Faith Symbols

Lastly, another very interesting and very relevant verse to this discussion in the Qur'an says:





“Do not revile those they call on beside God, so they, in their hostility, revile God, without knowledge” [6:108]

The direct meaning of this verse is that reviling, insulting, or cursing the idols is prohibited because indirectly we are causing our God to be reviled, insulted or cursed. No matter how much we disagree with idol-worship, we cannot mock, insult, or curse idols, idolaters, or idol-worship. This verse is also teaching us that there are always consequences to our actions. Just like we hold our religious symbols very dear to our hearts and we consider them holy or untouchable, people of other faiths will feel the same towards their religious symbols, no matter how ridiculous those symbols may seem to us. Therefore, we should have mutual respect of religious symbols in order to live together in a civilized manner. At the least, we should, as they say, respectfully disagree.


http://muslimmatters.org/2012/09/16/39567/
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farah-
09-19-2012, 04:36 PM
:sl:
When I viewed the video myself I felt so angry - I felt that I wanted to go to the USA and send the soul of the creator of the '' Prophet Film'' to Allah.
One thing I don't understand - They expect us Muslims to be quiet whilst thousands of people are watching this film and Google have said they will NOT take down the film. :raging: I'm really really angry.

Oh :Allah: I pray that you show some Miracles of the true Islam in the Dunya
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~Zaria~
09-19-2012, 09:30 PM
SubhanAllah!

And this is how its done!! : D



Pakistani Hackers Take Down French Magazine Website for Publishing Blasphemous Cartoons


By Aamir Attaa · Wednesday, Sep 19, 2012







Pakistani hackers have taken down Charlie Hebdo website, a Satirical Weekly Magazine, which published cartoons of Prophet Mohammad (P.B.U.H) in its edition today.

Official website of Charlie Hebdo was immediately taken down by a group of Pakistani hackers, who claim to have targeted the website for publishing blasphemous cartoons.

Website, when last checked, was still inaccessible.

Hacker group which calls itself “Guardian of Honor of Prophet SAW” told ProPakistani over phone that insult of Prophet SAW led them to take this extreme step.

Charlie Hebdo magazine website is currently showing “Website Inaccessible” message, which is apparently short of resources due to a DoS attack. “Guardian of Honor of Prophet SAW” group is confident that they can keep the website down for indefinite time, until they realize their mistake.

In an email communication a member of hacker group wrote to ProPakistani:

The movement has begun, it will rise from heart of every Muslim regardless of age, color, cast and creed, with an aim to preach the masses that Freedom of Speech for hurting the sentiments of Muslims across the world is simply not acceptable.

Dual standards are evidently shown when the free speech is about holocaust but the world least care when they put blasphemous contents about our Prophet SAW.

We will fight till our last drop of blood. We don’t promote violence, instead we peacefully put the down the website that had posted blasphemous content today.

We are ready to close down any blasphemous content published by any group using sophisticated TCP SYN attacks.

This move also shows the world that Muslims can protest in a more peaceful and technological way, instead of killing innocent people.

The French government speaks about freedom of speech, where was the freedom of speech and religion, when they banned Burqa and hijab in france?

We are not a hacker organization or a group, We just demand justice for the hypocrisy that’s going on in the name of ‘freedom of speech’, If the government
is not taking any action against so called blatant freedom of speech, We will do whatever is necessary to stop the blasphemous content of our holy prophet, and the whole Muslim Ummah is behind us.


http://propakistani.pk/2012/09/19/pa...mous-cartoons/
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dusk
09-19-2012, 10:35 PM
Very interesting article.
Originally Posted by ~Zaria~
“We have spared you those who ridicule you” [15:95]
Would you mind to give some context to the unlearned. Who is we and you in this short statement?
The explanation sounds good but I don't understand the connection.
Originally Posted by farah-
One thing I don't understand - They expect us Muslims to be quiet whilst thousands of people are watching this film and Google have said they will NOT take down the film. I'm really really angry.
I don't think there is an expectation for being quite. Yet expressing discontent and burning down embassies because of some fools video is a bit over the top. There should be more mature ways of expressing discontent, which more than likely would yield some actual respect.
The entire riots are not really taken seriously as in the concerns being respected.
I would say watch the dailyshow once they remove the IP block, something they usually don't have. That sums up the main points of the kind of respect Muslims from the middle east have earned Islam with this angry mob behavior. Obviously only recommended for those that can handle a pundit show.

The thousands of people watching it are probably all Muslims, because really nobody else would ever watch more than 10 seconds of it. Not even a single second because why should they. This reminds me of Sean Lock.
Search on youtube Sean Lock being offended.
first 40 seconds.
Don't be offended from stuff on TV, you have a remote. In short.
Originally Posted by ~Zaria~
..., pay no attention to foolish people” [7:199]
or Stephen Hughes in his being offended part
That's what you teach children, what you teach toddlers.
Child: He called me an *****.
Parent: Don't worry about it he is a ****.

I think taking things with the seriousness the content deserves gets one a long way.
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~Zaria~
09-20-2012, 02:48 PM
Greetings,

A commentary of the above verses, taken from Ibn Kathir:

فَاصْدَعْ بِمَا تُؤْمَرُ وَأَعْرِضْ عَنِ الْمُشْرِكِينَ




15:94 Therefore openly proclaim what you have been commanded, and turn away from the idolators.
إِنَّا كَفَيْنَـكَ الْمُسْتَهْزِءِينَ




15:95 Truly, We will suffice you against the mockers,
الَّذِينَ يَجْعَلُونَ مَعَ اللَّهِ إِلـهًا ءَاخَرَ فَسَوْفَ يَعْمَلُونَ




15:96 Who make another god along with Allah; but they will come to know.
وَلَقَدْ نَعْلَمُ أَنَّكَ يَضِيقُ صَدْرُكَ بِمَا يَقُولُونَ




15:97 Indeed, We know that your breast becomes tight because of what they say.
فَسَبِّحْ بِحَمْدِ رَبِّكَ وَكُنْ مِّنَ السَّـجِدِينَ




15:98 So glorify the praises of your Lord and be of those who prostrate themselves (to Him).
وَاعْبُدْ رَبَّكَ حَتَّى يَأْتِيَكَ الْيَقِينُ




15:99 And worship your Lord until the certainty (i.e. death) comes to you.


The Command to proclaim the Truth openly

Allah commanded His Messenger:
فَاصْدَعْ بِمَا تُؤْمَرُ ... Therefore openly proclaim what you have been commanded,


Allah commanded His Messenger to convey what He sent him with, to proclaim and spread the Message, which means confronting the idolators with it.

Ibn Abbas said that the Ayah, فَاصْدَعْ بِمَا تُؤْمَرُ (Therefore openly proclaim that what you have been commanded), means, "Go ahead with it.'' According to another report it means, افْعَلْ مَا تُؤْمَرُ (Therefore proclaim that which you commanded). Mujahid said, "It is reciting the Qur'an aloud during prayer.''

Abu Ubaydah reported that Abdullah bin Mas`ud said, "The Prophet was still practicing and preaching Islam secretly until this Ayah was revealed: فَاصْدَعْ بِمَا تُؤْمَرُ (Therefore openly proclaim that which you are commanded), then he and his Companions came out into the open.''


The Command to turn away from the Idolators, and the Guarantee of Protection against the Mockers

Allah's statement,
... وَأَعْرِضْ عَنِ الْمُشْرِكِينَ ﴿٩٤﴾
and turn away from idolators.

meaning - convey that which has been revealed to you by your Lord, and do not pay attention to the idolators who want to turn you away from the signs of Allah.

وَدُّواْ لَوْ تُدْهِنُ فَيُدْهِنُونَ

They wish that you should compromise for them, so that they would compromise for you. (68:9)

إِنَّا كَفَيْنَاكَ الْمُسْتَهْزِئِينَ ﴿٩٥﴾
Truly, We will suffice you against the mockers.

Do not fear them because Allah will suffice you against them, and He will protect you from them.

This is like the Ayah: يَـأَيُّهَا الرَّسُولُ بَلِّغْ مَآ أُنزِلَ إِلَيْكَ مِن رَّبِّكَ وَإِن لَّمْ تَفْعَلْ فَمَا بَلَّغْتَ رِسَالَتَهُ وَاللَّهُ يَعْصِمُكَ مِنَ النَّاسِ
O Messenger! Proclaim that which has been revealed to you from your Lord. And if you do not do it, then you have not conveyed His Message. Allah will protect you from mankind. (5:67)
.........

When their evil went to extremes and their mockery of the Messenger of Allah went too far, Allah revealed:

فَاصْدَعْ بِمَا تُؤْمَرُ وَأَعْرِضْ عَنِ الْمُشْرِكِينَ
إِنَّا كَفَيْنَاكَ الْمُسْتَهْزِئِينَ
الَّذِينَ يَجْعَلُونَ مَعَ اللّهِ إِلـهًا آخَرَ فَسَوْفَ يَعْمَلُونَ


Therefore openly proclaim that which you are commanded, and turn away from the idolators. Truly, We will suffice you against the mockers, who make another god along with Allah; but they will come to know.


Originally Posted by dusk
I think taking things with the seriousness the content deserves gets one a long way.
We take insults to the most beloved to Allah - the prophet (sallalahu alaihi wasalam) very seriously.
Have no doubts about this.

While we do not condone the violent outbursts that have erupted in parts of the world......neither will we ever, remain silent.
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جوري
09-20-2012, 02:58 PM
I suggest folks also boycott google and youtube for showing the video while they instantly take down excellent videos which they deem offend Jewish sensibilities!

:w:
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farah-
09-20-2012, 03:34 PM
Ji'sakallah :)
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DavidK565
09-20-2012, 04:28 PM
If you were to go on Youtube right now, you would find videos that offend every single group, race, religion, culture, etc. on the planet. Everyone has that right, even though it is highly offensive to the people who are the victims of these videos. In that same vein, you can also find videos, produced by Muslims, that are insulting to Jews and Christians. All groups participate, and all groups are victims.

In order to end this downward cycle, the responses to these types of videos on the part of Muslims has to be tame and peaceful. If there is violence, it will spur on more hate and more videos. It perpetuates the stereotype. And when more videos come out, it will be perceived as more attacks against Islam, which will lead to more violence, and then more negative videos.

If you have faith in your god, then surely you can trust him to punish those who are blaspheming him and the prophet. It is not for you to judge them. The rhetoric will be dialed down if the Muslim populations around the world show that they can take the insults without attacking/killing others.
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جوري
09-20-2012, 05:29 PM
Originally Posted by DavidK565
If you were to go on Youtube right now, you would find videos that offend every single group, race, religion, culture, etc. on the planet. Everyone has that right, even though it is highly offensive to the people who are the victims of these videos. In that same vein, you can also find videos, produced by Muslims, that are insulting to Jews and Christians. All groups participate, and all groups are victims.
point being?


Originally Posted by DavidK565
In order to end this downward cycle, the responses to these types of videos on the part of Muslims has to be tame and peaceful. If there is violence, it will spur on more hate and more videos. It perpetuates the stereotype. And when more videos come out, it will be perceived as more attacks against Islam, which will lead to more violence, and then more negative videos.
Indeed there shouldn't be violence however, we've every right to respond!

Originally Posted by DavidK565
If you have faith in your god, then surely you can trust him to punish those who are blaspheming him and the prophet. It is not for you to judge them. The rhetoric will be dialed down if the Muslim populations around the world show that they can take the insults without attacking/killing others.
What sort of logic is that? should we do away with the Judaical system because God will judge? God gave us the system with which to carry out justice in this life. So we're not going to re-write fundamentals to suit your point of view, especially a point of view that supports only vice. I have never seen a culture so promoting of rottenness, weed and vice and making it so audacious to point out what's wrong with that line of thinking!
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dusk
09-20-2012, 05:36 PM
Originally Posted by ~Zaria~
We take insults to the most beloved to Allah - the prophet (sallalahu alaihi wasalam) very seriously.
Have no doubts about this.
That seems rather obvious. But do you have to take any retard seriously.
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~Zaria~
09-20-2012, 05:48 PM
Originally Posted by dusk
That seems rather obvious. But do you have to take any retard seriously.
I wish these videos/ cartoons and blaspehemous statements were actually the products of 'retards' (those with low cognitive abilities, who cannot be held liable for their actions).

The fact is that these attacks against our prophet (sallalahu alaihi wasalam) arise from those who possess enough knowledge, are able to distinguish right from wrong and who are aware of the repercussions of their actions.

Yet still, continue with their malicious plans - intentionally.

They wish to be seen as retards.

But, their schemes are plain for all to see.
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Banu_Hashim
09-20-2012, 06:46 PM
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glo
09-20-2012, 06:58 PM
^
Love it, Inquilaab!

A good reminder that not everything on Youtube is vile and negative and to be avoided!
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'Abd-al Latif
09-20-2012, 07:10 PM
:salamext:

On a related note, this is what Ibn Tayimyyah (r) has said: Trying to disgrace our religion or to curse our Prophet is considered an act of war (and can not be tolerated). [as-Saarim pg.82]

I am not suggesting that we act disorderly and recklessly, but to take proactive steps that produce a permanent change should be the focus and result of our endeavours. I don't see how this will be achieved by attacking embassies as the message is still not strong and direct enough. Nevertheless, our stance to these insults must always be as mentioned by Ibn Taymiyyah.
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GuestFellow
09-20-2012, 07:36 PM
I really think it's pointless to even protest about these videos. Your indirectly giving publicity to the video. There will always be people who mock the Prophet (P.B.U.H). We need to accept this (unless we lived in an Islamic state) and move on.

Many of us didn't even know the video even existed until people started protesting about it. Actually protest may not be the right term to use. It just seems people are expressing themselves, which they are entitled to...but at the same time, I do hope they are aware of the consequences because they are the reason why this video has become so popular.
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'Abd-al Latif
09-20-2012, 07:48 PM
Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
I really think it's pointless to even protest about these videos. Your indirectly giving publicity to the video. There will always be people who mock the Prophet (P.B.U.H). We need to accept this (unless we lived in an Islamic state) and move on.

Many of us didn't even know the video even existed until people started protesting about it. Actually protest may not be the right term to use. It just seems people are expressing themselves, which they are entitled to...but at the same time, I do hope they are aware of the consequences because they are the reason why this video has become so popular.
As Ibn Taymiyyah (r) also said: the one who doesn't enjoin the good and forbid the evil is either weak or he is a coward.

I refuse to accept the fact that people should be given a licence to insult our Messenger, especially due to our passiveness and silence. This in itself is a form of approval of these acts.

It is not befitting for a Muslim to remain silent and become passive when his religion, his Messenger and His Lord are in the frame of discussion. Iman in Islam is belief in the heart, statements on the tongue and actions of the limbs. You are obliged as a Muslim to stand up and confront these situations, to denounce them and fight against them in your the heart, in your words and in your actions. It is not permissible for any Muslim to stand down and withdraw when he has the ability to fight back.

You can either grab the bull by the horns and stand up for what you believe in, or take your place among the weak and incapable who are the most useless of people in every society.
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GuestFellow
09-20-2012, 08:48 PM
Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif
I refuse to accept the fact that people should be given a licence to insult our Messenger, especially due to our passiveness and silence. This in itself is a form of approval of these acts.

It is not befitting for a Muslim to remain silent and become passive when his religion, his Messenger and His Lord are in the frame of discussion. Iman in Islam is belief in the heart, statements on the tongue and actions of the limbs. You are obliged as a Muslim to stand up and confront these situations, to denounce them and fight against them in your the heart, in your words and in your actions. It is not permissible for any Muslim to stand down and withdraw when he has the ability to fight back.
:sl:

People insult the Prophet (P.B.U.H) on a daily basis.

First, it is not practicable to prevent every single human being to stop insulting the Prophet (P.B.U.H). It is not going to work. Therefore, there are situations when to get involved and when not to get involved.

Second, I said Muslims are allowed to protest but at least be aware of the consequences. In other words, are you helping the situation or making it worse? I personally remain silent because I don't want to give this video any more publicity. The act to avoid giving the video any publicity is a way to prevent people being aware of it. Therefore, I'm doing something good.

Third, there are situations which I find it is reasonable to protest against anti-Islamic material. For example, let's assume a famous Hollywood producer made a video that insulted the Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H). In this case, the mainstream media and the public will definitely be aware of this film. So I do believe in this case it's fine to protest against the film.

However, the video that was made now was not even heard of. It's Muslims fault that this video is becoming popular because they were the one who gave it so much publicity by protesting. By ignoring the video is a way of ending this video.

Besides what have you done to protest against this video? Hope it is not grabbing bulls by the horn. :/
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Muhaba
09-20-2012, 09:31 PM
I believe that everything should be done in a peaceful manner. Whether protests or demonstrations etc are done, but protestors shouldn't become violent. It is wrong to lash out in anger at those who are not responsible directly. Even at the time of the Prophet (SAW) when many Meccan idolators were persecuting and torturing the Muslims and the Prophet (SAW) directly, the Muslims didn't lash out at all Meccans. Likewise, it's not right to take revenge on all americans or french etc.

I think that Muslims should of course show that they are upset by what has happened. libel and insult is not freedom of speech and it is not accepted in the law of any country. In my business law book i read that defaming another's character is a criminal offense. it does not fall under freedom of speech. so how can anyone justify the debasing of the character of our beloved Prophet Muhammad (SAW) who had the best and purest character? Just because he is no longer living doesn't mean that the law doesn't apply to him. How would americans feel if someone debased George Washington? I'm sure they would be mad.

protesting peacefully, holding banners/posters with a few lines highlighting the beautiful character of the Prophet (SAW) will be a better way to deal with this. When such posters are read by the nonmuslims, they'll be informed about Prophet Muhammad (SAW) and what the cartoons and film is trying to achieve will be stopped.

In addition to that, Muslims can mail or give out out a leaflet (email) with the great qualities of Prophet Muhammad (SAW) to everyone they know as well as companies, etc to inform the people about the real character of Prophet Muhammad (SAW).

Finally, I am very happy to hear that the website of the french magazine has been downed.

Here is an article about Prophet Muhammad (SAW) that people can give out to others (You can see the original at http://www.islamicboard.com/dawah/13...ml#post1527232 and format it in similar manner:

Who is Prophet Muhammad Peace and Blessings of God be upon him

You have seen many comics / cartoons about Prophet Muhammad—God’s Peace and Blessings be on him. But do you know who Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم is? Read on to find out.

Final Messenger of God

Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم was the final Prophet and final Messenger of Allah. God says in Chapter 33, verse 40 of the Holy Quran (God’s final Book for mankind’s guidance): ...But he is the Messenger of Allah and the Last of the Prophets. And Allah has full knowledge of all things.

Excellent Character

Prophet Muhammad was at the exalted standard of character. Chapter 68, The Pen, verse 4 states: And surely you (O Muhammad) are on an exalted standard of character.

Even today, the world has witnessed that Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم was the number 1 greatest man on earth, even surpassing Prophet Jesus عليهم السلام (God’s peace be on him) who was set as number 2!

No one can dishonor Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم because Almighty God has guaranteed honor for him.

God says in chapter 63, Al-Munafiqoon (The Hypocrites), verse 8: … But honor, power, and glory belong to Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم ) and to the believers … .

Given Miraculous Book
The Holy Quran, the final Revelation of God to mankind, was revealed to Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم over 1,400 years ago. The Holy Quran is a miraculous statement and a proof and evidence of the Prophethood of Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم . Furthermore, it is a self-witness book that it cannot be a human statement. It is a divine statement, that is, the Word of God Allah. Today, the Holy Quran is a challenge to the most modern scientists. See the following facts in the Holy Quran. These facts were revealed over 1400 years ago in the Holy Quran but are discovered by scientists in the present era.
•Stages of development of fetus, chapter 23 – Al-Mo’minoon, verses 12—14 and chapter 22 - Hajj, verse 5.
•Pain-sensitive nerve endings located in the skin, chapter 4 - Al-Nisa, verse 56.
•Motion of the sun in space, chapter 36 –Yasin, verse 38.
•Increase in the vastness of the universe, chapter 51 – Al-Dhariyaat, verse 47.
•Cure in honey, chapter 16 –Al-Nahl, verse 69.
•The Big Bang Theory, chapter 21 –Al-anbiya, verse 30
•Miraculous preservation of the Holy Quran, chapter 15 –Al-Hijr, verse 9.
•Fetus in three darknesses in the womb, chapter 39 –Al-Zumar, verse 6.
You can find many other miraculous statements in the Holy Quran which science is discovering now.


Divinely Guided

The Character of Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم was a miracle. He was divinely guided. Even his enemies called him As-saadiq (the truthful) and Al-Ameen (the trustworthy).
•Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم was the ruler of the Muslim nation but he fed others before he ate himself. He was never proud.

•He fought against the oppressors to free the weak and the poor people.

•He called mankind to the obedience and worship of the One, Single, and Unique God—The Lord of the worlds—so that mankind might be saved from the everlasting Hellfire.

•He took care of orphans, widows, and the poor and weak people and protected them from the cruel unjust people.

•He followed the order of God Allah and gave the notice of war to those who charged debtors to pay interest on loans as per chapter 2, verse 279 of the Holy Quran.

•He taught to give a beautiful loan without interest and also to give charity to poor people.

•The Holy Wars he fought were always in the battlefield with the transgressing attackers confronting enemies and never with the inhabitants in the cities or villages. Civilians were never killed in wars.

•He had been patient for 12 1/2 years, finally migrating from his birthplace to escape the cruel transgressors who wouldn’t let them live with their new religion.

•He conquered Makkah without a battle or war. He was a winner against all attackers and never tortured prisoners or the defeated armies. Due to his kind behavior, most prisoners and defeated people accepted islam.

•He gave freedom to slaves in a wise, divine way.

•He banned prostitution and illegal sex relations out of wedlock. This resulted in restoring the rights of women and children. As by marriage, the fathers were legally obliged to take responsibility of their wives and children, so oppression on women came to an end.

•He gave women legal and inheritance rights as per divine instruction.

•He made pious, strong, and stable society free of crime and injustice.
The enemies of humanity have always been against the Final Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم but he has been and will be the winner here and in the Hereafter.

Allah promised an endless reward for him: And verily for you (O Muhammad) will be an endless reward. Chapter 68, The Pen, verse 3.

For more information about Islam go to http://www.islam-guide.com
Reply

Scimitar
09-20-2012, 09:44 PM


Scimi
Reply

'Abd-al Latif
09-20-2012, 10:00 PM
Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
:sl:

People insult the Prophet (P.B.U.H) on a daily basis.

First, it is not practicable to prevent every single human being to stop insulting the Prophet (P.B.U.H). It is not going to work. Therefore, there are situations when to get involved and when not to get involved.

Second, I said Muslims are allowed to protest but at least be aware of the consequences. In other words, are you helping the situation or making it worse? I personally remain silent because I don't want to give this video any more publicity. The act to avoid giving the video any publicity is a way to prevent people being aware of it. Therefore, I'm doing something good.

Third, there are situations which I find it is reasonable to protest against anti-Islamic material. For example, let's assume a famous Hollywood producer made a video that insulted the Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H). In this case, the mainstream media and the public will definitely be aware of this film. So I do believe in this case it's fine to protest against the film.

However, the video that was made now was not even heard of. It's Muslims fault that this video is becoming popular because they were the one who gave it so much publicity by protesting. By ignoring the video is a way of ending this video.

Besides what have you done to protest against this video? Hope it is not grabbing bulls by the horn. :/
I don't want to mention what I have done because there are others who have far surpassed my efforts. My efforts cannot be compared to theirs so I prefer not to mention my deeds.

I do however encourage all Muslims to speak out, to write and to be proactive in spreading Islamic awareness. The majority of Muslims in the west are educated and have developed strengths in various fields. Each individual Muslim can use his strength to defend his faith, and can compensate in his shortcomings with the strengths of his Muslim brother.

There are some who are good with computers and can use the internet to their advantage to address specific problems, like addressing this recent blasphemous video through YouTube or making websites for example. Brothers can go on the radio (either call in to a show or host a radio show themselves) and discuss and inform listeners about the truth of the Messenger (saw), as this has proved to be popular in the past. The point I am try to make is that everyone has some sort of skill or access to a utility that can aid them to speak out, educated the ignorant and defend Islam. The worst thing a Muslim can do is turn a blind eye and become passive as this will do nothing to solve the problem.

Some brothers I know have taken a proactive step to have close relations with their local mosque. Now they hold regular circles to educate Muslims in their locality and this has been the case for the past few years. And these brothers are not old, they are as young 23. The speakers whom they invite discuss current affairs and give advice on how we should deal with them, and now mashaa'Allah a lot of brothers now are taking more informed steps to defend Islam. Other brothers have upped their da'wah as non-Muslims have shown an interest in knowing the truth about Islam and the Messenger.

One must do something productive and never be passive, one should not even encourage passiveness.
Reply

StopS
09-20-2012, 10:02 PM
Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif
As Ibn Taymiyyah (r) also said: the one who doesn't enjoin the good and forbid the evil is either weak or he is a coward.

I refuse to accept the fact that people should be given a licence to insult our Messenger, especially due to our passiveness and silence. This in itself is a form of approval of these acts.

It is not befitting for a Muslim to remain silent and become passive when his religion, his Messenger and His Lord are in the frame of discussion. Iman in Islam is belief in the heart, statements on the tongue and actions of the limbs. You are obliged as a Muslim to stand up and confront these situations, to denounce them and fight against them in your the heart, in your words and in your actions. It is not permissible for any Muslim to stand down and withdraw when he has the ability to fight back.

You can either grab the bull by the horns and stand up for what you believe in, or take your place among the weak and incapable who are the most useless of people in every society.
Humanity has moved on since the days of Ibn Taymiyyah. Humanity does not function on the basis of the sword any longer, but the brain.

If some idiot makes a video clip about someone he does not like who is long dead, does that mean others need to automatically agree and accept this idiotic view? Is tacit rejection a form of approval? Do I approve of being charged too much by a restaurant or tax authorities because I don't immediately kill them? Hardly. So why not use a more sophisticated view than violence and wrestling with bulls - which you will loose, by the way.
Reply

'Abd-al Latif
09-20-2012, 10:10 PM
Originally Posted by WRITER
I think that Muslims should of course show that they are upset by what has happened. libel and insult is not freedom of speech and it is not accepted in the law of any country. In my business law book i read that defaming another's character is a criminal offense. it does not fall under freedom of speech. so how can anyone justify the debasing of the character of our beloved Prophet Muhammad (SAW) who had the best and purest character?
This is what I'm talking about sister. One can use one's education to one's benefit. You can use this knowledge to restrict or block access to any such defamatory material in the country you live in. If you feel you are not able to do it yourself then I'm sure there are other Muslims whom you can work together with to make this happen.
Reply

GuestFellow
09-20-2012, 10:15 PM
Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif

The worst thing a Muslim can do is turn a blind eye and become passive as this will do nothing to solve the problem.
:sl:

I doubt you understand how this works. These videos needed publicity. They require attention. That is what this video needed and Muslims gave it to them. How is protesting going to solve the problem? Last time I checked Muslim protested over those cartoons and nothing happened. In fact, things got worse and more people began to insult the Prophet (P.B.U.H).

There is one way of resolving this problem and that is by ignoring it. That is how you prevent something becoming famous.
Reply

GuestFellow
09-20-2012, 10:21 PM
Originally Posted by StopS
Humanity does not function on the basis of the sword any longer, but the brain.
You must be asleep for the last 12 years. Afghanistan war? Iraq war? Air strikes in Pakistan, Somalia and Libya? Torture in Guantanamo bay and Uzbekistan?
Reply

'Abd-al Latif
09-20-2012, 10:32 PM
Originally Posted by StopS
Humanity has moved on since the days of Ibn Taymiyyah. Humanity does not function on the basis of the sword any longer, but the brain.

If some idiot makes a video clip about someone he does not like who is long dead, does that mean others need to automatically agree and accept this idiotic view? Is tacit rejection a form of approval? Do I approve of being charged too much by a restaurant or tax authorities because I don't immediately kill them? Hardly. So why not use a more sophisticated view than violence and wrestling with bulls - which you will loose, by the way.
Ibn Taymiyyah remains an authority in Islam, as far as the authority of a scholar in Islam is concerned. Therefore, his views hold as much weight today as they did the day he was alive and in the moment he expressed it. And this will never change as his views are largely in accordance with the two sources of Islam: the Qur'an and the Prophetic teachings.

Humanity may not live by the sword, but it certainly lives by the bullet. The war in Iraq, Afghanistan and continuous bombing in Pakistan till the present day is all too evident of that seeing as their targets are either captured or dead. As some of the news sources like the BBC and The Guardian have rightly quoted: the presence of NATO/foreign troops in Muslim lands is seen as a war against Islam to Muslims, not as liberation from oppressiveness as they wrongly believe.

In case you haven't it registered yet, the one who is 'long dead' is still the most important and revered human being that ever lived to Muslims. I believe the vicious and fierce protests in recent days are again evidence that some people still hold on to their principles. Therefore, this 'idiotic statement' is still put into practise. In fact, I find it deeply insulting that you refer Prophet Muhammed as 'long dead'. Therefore I will advise you from now to avoid referring to him as this unless you are planning a very short stay here.
Reply

StopS
09-20-2012, 10:33 PM
Originally Posted by WRITER
I believe that everything should be done in a peaceful manner.

Finally, I am very happy to hear that the website of the french magazine has been downed.
I am happy for you that you are happy that fathers will not bring home a salary to feed their families and the entire existence of families is in danger. If you think that a drawing of something justifies that approach I am sure you have thought this through and you think this is adequate.

You, no doubt, also feel the killing of an innocent person from the US in Libya makes you happy. Because the making of a bad movie justifies the killing of a human 1000s of kilometres away, no doubt.

What you don't seem to understand is that your claims about Muhammad is why people react so strongly. You take only one view and deny the full picture.

You make claims regarding scientific accuracy of the Koran, ignoring that these have been long refuted and are no longer brought up.

You claim that the personality of Muhammad is x - ignoring the ahadith which say that it is y. This is the problem. Some humans prefer the truth and not comfort. So your absolute claim triggers a reaction. You don't like that reaction and we are in the middle of an argument. Why can't you refrain from making these absolute and one-sided claims and just accept the big picture - without denigrating any description? Is that so difficult?
Reply

StopS
09-20-2012, 10:36 PM
Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
You must be asleep for the last 12 years. Afghanistan war? Iraq war? Air strikes in Pakistan, Somalia and Libya? Torture in Guantanamo bay and Uzbekistan?
I hate when others are right!! Yes, indeed, I must admit that the frontal cortex is hopelessly overrated and I was wrong. I can explain some things but Guantanamo Bay remains the stain in my wishful thinking.
Reply

جوري
09-20-2012, 10:37 PM
Originally Posted by StopS
Humanity has moved on since the days of Ibn Taymiyyah. Humanity does not function on the basis of the sword any longer, but the brain.
You mean humanity deteriorated since the days of ibn Taymiyyah. You're right no more swords now we have carpet bombing.. your point being?
Originally Posted by StopS
If some idiot makes a video clip about someone he does not like who is long dead, does that mean others need to automatically agree and accept this idiotic view? Is tacit rejection a form of approval? Do I approve of being charged too much by a restaurant or tax authorities because I don't immediately kill them? Hardly. So why not use a more sophisticated view than violence and wrestling with bulls - which you will loose, by the way.
This is the usual drivel and not very smart drivel either not that I was expecting pearls from you.
If you're charged too much at a restaurant you've every right to say you're being ripped off, and warn your friends and stand there at the door if you so choose to warn others, no law against that. Obviously if every Muslim in the world were to 'immediately kill' there would be no westerners left as there's 1.86 billion of us to your impotent population. However, not enough people are irked or respond in the manner that you've suggested.. as to who is losing, well hmm let's see, your economy is in the dumps, your can't get out of the mess you're in either in Afghanistan or Iraq, your boys are coming home in body bags everyday in lieu of dropping a couple at the g strings of some hooker and you pretty much have resigned to third world country style despots whether dems. or repuke cons. and you redefine what it means to be bankrupt yearly...
so I guess it is all relative what your definition is of a win or maybe you just have very low standards!
Reply

GuestFellow
09-20-2012, 10:38 PM
Originally Posted by StopS
I hate when others are right!!
I love it when I'm right.

I was wrong.
Of course your wrong. No need to state the obvious.
Reply

'Abd-al Latif
09-20-2012, 10:38 PM
Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
:sl:

I doubt you understand how this works. These videos needed publicity. They require attention. That is what this video needed and Muslims gave it to them. How is protesting going to solve the problem? Last time I checked Muslim protested over those cartoons and nothing happened. In fact, things got worse and more people began to insult the Prophet (P.B.U.H).

There is one way of resolving this problem and that is by ignoring it. That is how you prevent something becoming famous.
As I've said many times in the past and I will repeat again here: I do not personally encourage protests, or violent protests, nor the killings of the innocent, even if these were the people in the US embassies. If they are innocent then I do not see why they should be subject to an attack. However, if (non-violent) protesting pressures the government and produces a change then we must protest.

What I've been suggesting, and what I've always suggested, is not protesting but more productive steps in countering these insults.
Reply

StopS
09-20-2012, 10:43 PM
Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif
Ibn Taymiyyah remains an authority in Islam, as far as the authority of a scholar in Islam is concerned. Therefore, his views hold as much weight today as they did the day he was alive and in the moment he expressed it. And this will never change as his views are largely in accordance with the two sources of Islam: the Qur'an and the Prophetic teachings.

Humanity may not live by the sword, but it certainly lives by the bullet. The war in Iraq, Afghanistan and continuous bombing in Pakistan till the present day is all too evident of that seeing as their targets are either captured or dead. As some of the news sources like the BBC and The Guardian have rightly quoted: the presence of NATO/foreign troops in Muslim lands is seen as a war against Islam to Muslims, not as liberation from oppressiveness as they wrongly believe.
Exactly my sentiment. And that's why I maintain it's time to change that. Get away from a one-sided view and bring the facts together to create a realistic and un-emotional view. If that is possible.

Elesewhere I have posed the question: should the UN intervene in Syria? An immensely difficult question if you want to avoid the mistakes of the last decade.

[QUOTE]
In case you haven't it registered yet, the one who is 'long dead' is still the most important and revered human being that ever lived to Muslims. I believe the vicious and fierce protests in recent days are again evidence that some people still hold on to their principles. Therefore, this 'idiotic statement' is still put into practise.

No, I am aware of this. I also see that this is exploited from within the Muslim society.

In fact, I find it deeply insulting that you refer Prophet Muhammed as 'long dead'. Therefore I will advise you from now to avoid referring to him as this unless you are planning a very short stay here.
Ooops, I see you are capable of misinterpretation. And that you don't take opinions as a challenge, but a disturbance. Pity.
Reply

'Abd-al Latif
09-20-2012, 10:47 PM
Originally Posted by StopS
I am happy for you that you are happy that fathers will not bring home a salary to feed their families and the entire existence of families is in danger. If you think that a drawing of something justifies that approach I am sure you have thought this through and you think this is adequate.

You, no doubt, also feel the killing of an innocent person from the US in Libya makes you happy. Because the making of a bad movie justifies the killing of a human 1000s of kilometres away, no doubt.

What you don't seem to understand is that your claims about Muhammad is why people react so strongly. You take only one view and deny the full picture.

You make claims regarding scientific accuracy of the Koran, ignoring that these have been long refuted and are no longer brought up.

You claim that the personality of Muhammad is x - ignoring the ahadith which say that it is y. This is the problem. Some humans prefer the truth and not comfort. So your absolute claim triggers a reaction. You don't like that reaction and we are in the middle of an argument. Why can't you refrain from making these absolute and one-sided claims and just accept the big picture - without denigrating any description? Is that so difficult?
Really? So when the Qur'an said 1400 years ago that a large portion of this world, in fact universe, including humans, is made from water is an invalid scientific fact? So why have scientists been searching for sources of water on the moon and on Mars?

Or what about the Qur'an also mentioning 1400 years ago that the plants/stars etc have their own orbit?

You're worried about me losing a bull fight when you can't win against the apparently scientifically-deprived Muslims.

Please don't educate me about my religion, I can assure you I know and understand far more than you. It's why I call myself a Muslim.
Reply

'Abd-al Latif
09-20-2012, 10:59 PM
Originally Posted by StopS
Exactly my sentiment. And that's why I maintain it's time to change that. Get away from a one-sided view and bring the facts together to create a realistic and un-emotional view. If that is possible.

Elesewhere I have posed the question: should the UN intervene in Syria? An immensely difficult question if you want to avoid the mistakes of the last decade.

In case you haven't it registered yet, the one who is 'long dead' is still the most important and revered human being that ever lived to Muslims. I believe the vicious and fierce protests in recent days are again evidence that some people still hold on to their principles. Therefore, this 'idiotic statement' is still put into practise.
No, I am aware of this. I also see that this is exploited from within the Muslim society.



Ooops, I see you are capable of misinterpretation. And that you don't take opinions as a challenge, but a disturbance. Pity.
I might be capable of misinterpretation, or you're just not very clear in your message. Pity indeed.

No, I don't take opinions as a challenge because I don't feel obliged to argue with every opinion that is thrown at me. If it was a matter of principle and belief that one wanted to challenge me in then I'd engage. I don't think this is the case here.
Reply

DavidK565
09-20-2012, 11:01 PM
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
point being?
The point being that there are going to be people who dislike you, no matter who you are, and people are sometimes going to express it. It is not reasonable for people to fly off the handle every time their feelings get hurt. Muslims are not perpetual victims. They are victims as well as aggressors, just like every other group.

Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
Indeed there shouldn't be violence however, we've every right to respond!
Right.... but respond with what? A boycott? Does that mean you do not believe that these people should have the right to speak their mind (even if they are wrong)? What that demonstrates is intolerance. Look at the Chick-Fil-A situation in America. The owner said he supports only heterosexual marriage. The gays tried to organize a boycott of the restaurant. They COULD have done it, its within their rights. But they came off looking like jerks, because even if they disagree with the owner of Chick-Fil-A, he is entitled to state his opinion.

Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
What sort of logic is that? should we do away with the Judaical system because God will judge? God gave us the system with which to carry out justice in this life. So we're not going to re-write fundamentals to suit your point of view, especially a point of view that supports only vice. I have never seen a culture so promoting of rottenness, weed and vice and making it so audacious to point out what's wrong with that line of thinking!
Your insults are unfounded. I did not insult you, so try to be a little more courteous.

I was not suggesting that God's ability to pass judgement on others is a suitable replacement for the judicial system. However, this is not a judicial matter. There is no justice that needs to be carried out. Free speech, even if people find it offensive, is not a crime (at least, not in the U.S.). Perhaps it would be a judicial issue if he lived in Pakistan, for instance. But since its just a matter of a private citizen expressing his opinion (wrong as they may be), there is little that can be done. If it were a business that had supported these views, then a boycott would be fully reasonable. But what kind of action can be taken against one man? That is why I say that if your god wills it, he will see to it that he serves his proper punishment for making fun of the prophet.
Reply

StopS
09-20-2012, 11:03 PM
Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif
Really? So when the Qur'an said 1400 years ago that a large portion of this world, in fact universe, including humans, is made from water is an invalid scientific fact?
This shows me you have no scientific background. There is no "invalid scientific fact".

And the answer to the question the way you meant it is: yes, it is scientifically inaccurate.

So why have scientists been searching for sources of water on the moon and on Mars?
Because water is essential for life.
Because water on another planet would point to life having a chance of developing there.

Or what about the Qur'an also mentioning 1400 years ago that the plants/stars etc have their own orbit?
Look, face it, you are 20 years late. Bucailleism started this, Yahya and Naik spread it and now we know it is false. Live with it. And why should it be important anyway? The Koran is for spiritual guidance and not to learn astronomy.

You're worried about me losing a bull fight when you can't win against the apparently scientifically-deprived Muslims.

Please don't educate me about my religion, I can assure you I know and understand far more than you. It's why I call myself a Muslim.
Exactly right! But you are trying to mix science and religion.
You are also ignoring parts of the sunnah, when talking about Islam. But if you prefer to remain ignorant, so be it. I will shut up and leave you thinking what you do.
Reply

'Abd-al Latif
09-20-2012, 11:13 PM
Originally Posted by StopS
This shows me you have no scientific background. There is no "invalid scientific fact".

And the answer to the question the way you meant it is: yes, it is scientifically inaccurate.
Are you kidding me? Bro, I'm sure your not incapable of understanding the language I'm using so please don't get into petty arguments about the words 'invalid scientific fact'. I'm sure this statement makes sense in the way it was said.

And I do encourage you to prove to me that it is scientifically inaccurate. I do not accept disguised facts that are actually personal and uninformed opinions.

Because water is essential for life.
Because water on another planet would point to life having a chance of developing there.
That's exactly my point. Human beings are made from water and water signifies a presence of life. This is what the Qur'an says.

Look, face it, you are 20 years late. Bucailleism started this, Yahya and Naik spread it and now we know it is false. Live with it. And why should it be important anyway? The Koran is for spiritual guidance and not to learn astronomy.
Seems like I'm winning the bull-fight. Eh, torero? (Please search the meaning of this word in case you don't know before commenting!)

I don't want opinions. I want facts. I don't care what your view is, prove it to me from a fact.

I don't know who Yahya is and I hardly listen to Zakir Naik but thanks for telling me. I'll be sure to check them out.

In case you still haven't learned, Islam is a complete way of life. It is not just a vague and ambigous belief in God. Islam discusses astronomy in some length (bet you didn't know that) among each and every other aspect of you life you can think of.

Exactly right! But you are trying to mix science and religion.
You are also ignoring parts of the sunnah, when talking about Islam. But if you prefer to remain ignorant, so be it. I will shut up and leave you thinking what you do.
;D

Accept it. Islam and science mix. Shocking news eh? :nervous:.

Again, either explicitly state your proof or avoid trying to educate me.
Reply

جوري
09-20-2012, 11:20 PM
Originally Posted by DavidK565
The point being that there are going to be people who dislike you, no matter who you are, and people are sometimes going to express it. It is not reasonable for people to fly off the handle every time their feelings get hurt. Muslims are not perpetual victims. They are victims as well as aggressors, just like every other group.
The point is to every action there's a reaction, and as the cliche goes if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen!



Right.... but respond with what? A boycott? Does that mean you do not believe that these people should have the right to speak their mind (even if they are wrong)? What that demonstrates is intolerance. Look at the Chick-Fil-A situation in America. The owner said he supports only heterosexual marriage. The gays tried to organize a boycott of the restaurant. They COULD have done it, its within their rights. But they came off looking like jerks, because even if they disagree with the owner of Chick-Fil-A, he is entitled to state his opinion.
It is inconsequential what you deem tolerance or intolerance, we don't all have to push ourselves out for $2 near the min mart to meet with your approval or your style of thinking. Who are you to tell people what the cap is on what they should find acceptable or good?



Your insults are unfounded. I did not insult you, so try to be a little more courteous.
How have I insulted you? or are you being intolerant and denying me my right to free speech?

Best,
Reply

DavidK565
09-20-2012, 11:38 PM
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
The point is to every action there's a reaction, and as the cliche goes if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen!
Absolutely fair point. And to that end, if there are Muslims within the population who choose to overreact, create havoc, become violent, boycott random establishments, etc. then they too will have to deal with further consequences. This is what I am referring to when it comes to this downward spiral. Someone is going to have to stop it, so why shouldn't it be Muslims? It can do nothing but prove to be good PR for the faith.

Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
It is inconsequential what you deem tolerance or intolerance, we don't all have to push ourselves out for $2 near the minomart to meet with your approval or your style of thinking. Who the hell are you to tell people what the cap is on what they should find acceptable or good?
I am expressing my thoughts on how these matters should be handled. Who are you to tell me that I can not? I am not putting a "cap" on anything. Nor did I say anything about "goodness". To put it simply, there has to be a greater amount of restraint on the parts of all people to not behave irrationally when one gets offended. The only way to prevent certain people from expressing hatred is to take away their freedom of expression. And this is something that is not acceptable. The only other alternative is to learn to live with it. Certainly, you can be angry. But beyond that, actions that are taken can set a bad precedent. Freedom is not easy when you have to deal with people who do not share your beliefs, but ultimately its a worthwhile sacrifice.

Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
How have I insulted you? or are you being intolerant and denying me my right to free speech?
"So we're not going to re-write fundamentals to suit your point of view, especially a point of view that supports only vice. I have never seen a culture so promoting of rottenness, weed and vice and making it so audacious to point out what's wrong with that line of thinking!"

I'm fairly sure that this falls under the category of "insult". But of course, I would never deny you the right to say it. It would just be nice if we could have a conversation without such barbs. But if we can't that's ok too.
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جوري
09-21-2012, 12:21 AM
Originally Posted by DavidK565
then they too will have to deal with further consequences
not really.. not having everything makes you resourceful and self sufficient!character and true genius is borne out of not having, not out of being a person of excess!
I can give numerous examples of this..All we need to do is let our face toward the east.. they have what we want and we've what they want.

best,
Reply

Muhaba
09-21-2012, 02:43 AM
From http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Libel :

libel 1) n. to publish in print (including pictures), writing or broadcast through radio, television or film, an untruth about another which will do harm to that person or his/her reputation, by tending to bring the target into ridicule, hatred, scorn or contempt of others. Libel is the written or broadcast form of defamation, distinguished from slander which is oral defamation. It is a tort (civil wrong) making the person or entity (like a newspaper, magazine or political organization) open to a lawsuit for damages by the person who can prove the statement about him/her was a lie. Publication need only be to one person, but it must be a statement which claims to be fact, and is not clearly identified as an opinion. While it is sometimes said that the person making the libelous statement must have been intentional and malicious, actually it need only be obvious that the statement would do harm and is untrue. Proof of malice, however, does allow a party defamed to sue for "general damages" for damage to reputation, while an inadvertent libel limits the damages to actual harm (such as loss of business) called "special damages." "Libel per se" involves statements so vicious that malice is assumed and does not require a proof of intent to get an award of general damages. Libel against the reputation of a person who has died will allow surviving members of the family to bring an action for damages. Most states provide for a party defamed by a periodical to demand a published retraction. If the correction is made, then there is no right to file a lawsuit. Governmental bodies are supposedly immune for actions for libel on the basis that there could be no intent by a non-personal entity, and further, public records are exempt from claims of libel. However, there is at least one known case in which there was a financial settlement as well as a published correction when a state government newsletter incorrectly stated that a dentist had been disciplined for illegal conduct. The rules covering libel against a "public figure" (particularly a political or governmental person) are special, based on U. S. Supreme Court decisions. The key is that to uphold the right to express opinions or fair comment on public figures, the libel must be malicious to constitute grounds for a lawsuit for damages. Minor errors in reporting are not libel, such as saying Mrs. Jones was 55 when she was only 48, or getting an address or title incorrect. 2) v. to broadcast or publish a written defamatory statement. (See: defamation, slander, libel per se, public figure)
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جوري
09-21-2012, 02:47 AM
They don't get that.. how many times have we stated there are laws against libel and slander? Their entire anti-defemation league is established only to protect Zionists so give it up, they're lying two faced hypocrites and that's all there is to it!

:w:
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~Zaria~
09-21-2012, 04:21 AM
We have heard about the Westerners making fun of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and mocking him. What should our attitude be towards that? How should we defend the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)?.



Praise be to Allaah.

Firstly:

We and every Muslim who feels pride in his religion is grieved by what these fools and criminals have done by mocking our Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) who is the best man who ever walked on this earth, and he is the leader of the earlier and later generations, may the blessings and peace of my Lord be upon him.

This insolence is nothing strange on their part, rather it is to be expected of them.

Moreover this crime – although it breaks our hearts and fills them with anger, and we are prepared to sacrifice our lives in defence of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) – is nevertheless something which brings us glad tidings of their doom, and tells us that the end of their supremacy is at hand. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Truly, We will suffice you against the scoffers”

[al-Hijr 15:95]

Allaah will suffice His Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) against the criminals who mock him. He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“For he who hates you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم), he will be cut off (from posterity and every good thing in this world and in the Hereafter)”

[al-Kawthar 108:3]

i.e., he is scorned and humiliated and cut off from all that is good.

When the Muslims besieged a stronghold and its people resisted, then they heard them mocking and reviling the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), they would sense that victory was at hand, and it would only be a short time before Allaah granted them victory, to avenge His Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

Al-Saarim al-Maslool (p. 116-117).

There are many historical cases where those who mocked the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) were destroyed and finished off.

Moreover, why do they resent the leader of mankind, Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)?

They resent him because he called people to believe in the Oneness of God (Tawheed), and they do not believe that God is One.

They resent him because he venerated his Lord, may He be blessed and exalted, and declared Him to be far above what these fabricators say, as they attributed a wife and son to Him.

They resent him because he called people to the loftiest of morals and to give up the lowest. He called them to virtue and to block all the means that lead to immorality, but they want moral disorder and unlimited sexual liberty.

They want to indulge in the swamp of evil whims and desires, and they have got what they want!

They resent him because he is the Messenger of Allaah! Allaah, may He be exalted, is the One Who chose him above all mankind to convey His message and receive His revelation.

The signs of his Prophethood are innumerable.

Have they not heard about the splitting of the moon? Have they not heard how water sprang from his fingers time after time?

Have they not heard about his greatest sign, which is the Holy Qur’aan, the words of the Lord of the Worlds, which Allaah has protected so that it has not been tampered with by those who would distort it? Whereas their books which were revealed to their Prophets have been tampered with to a large extent.

“Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and then say, “This is from Allaah,” to purchase with it a little price! Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for that they earn thereby”
[al-Baqarah 2:79].

The greatest proof of the truth of our Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is the fact that his religion has continued for so many centuries to prevail and be victorious. Throughout his lifetime (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) he continued to prevail over his enemies. The wisdom of Allaah dictates that no liar who lies about him and his religion can ever prevail for a long time. Indeed, in their books, which their scholars concealed and distorted, it says that the liar who falsely claims to be a prophet will only survive for thirty years or so, then his message will fade away.

It was narrated from one of their kings that a man who followed the same religion as him (Christian) was brought to him, who used to revile the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and accuse him of lying. The king summoned his religious scholars and asked them: How long does a liar remain for? They said: Such and such – thirty years or thereabouts. The king said: This religion of Muhammad has lasted for more than five hundred years or six hundred years [i.e., at the time of that king], and it is prevailing and is accepted and followed. How can he be a liar? Then he had that man beheaded.

Sharh al-‘Aqeedah al-Asfahaaniyyah by Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him).

Do they not know that many of their wise men, kings and scholars, when the pure and clear call of Islam reached them, had no choice but to affirm the truth of this religion, and they venerated the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and many of them announced their entry into Islam?

The king of Abyssinia, the Najaashi (Negus) affirmed that, and became a Muslim.

When the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) sent a letter to Heraclius the king of Byzantium, calling him to Islam, Heraclius affirmed that he was indeed a Prophet, and he thought of announcing his Islam, and he wished that he could go to the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and be his servant, but he feared that his people would kill him, so he remained a kaafir and died in that state.

Many of their contemporaries are still proclaiming that.

1-

Michael Hart said in his book The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History (p. 13), where he put Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) at the head of his list of one hundred:

I chose Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) to be top of this list … because Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular levels.

2-

The Englishman George Bernard Shaw wrote a book called Muhammad, which was burned by the British authorities. He said:

The world is in the utmost need of a man with the mentality of Muhammad.

Medieval ecclesiastics, either through ignorance of bigotry, painted Mohammadanism in the darkest colors. They were in fact; trained to hate both the man Muhammad and his to them was anti-Christ. But I have studied his life, and found him to be extraordinary. I have reached the conclusion that he was never an enemy to Christianity. He must be called the Saviour of Humanity. I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world, he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it much needed peace and happiness.

3-

Annie Besant said:

It is impossible for anyone who studies the life and character of the great Prophet of Arabia, who knows how he taught and how he lived, to feel anything but reverence for that mighty Prophet, one of the great messengers of the Supreme.

4-

The Austrian Schabrak said:

Mankind may be proud of having a man like Muhammad among them, for despite being illiterate he was able more than ten centuries ago to introduce legislation that we Europeans would be the happiest ever if we could produce something of equally high quality.

5-

Dr. Zwemer (a Canadian Orientalist):

Muhammad was an able reformer, eloquent and well spoken, courageous and daring, a great thinker. We cannot attribute to him anything that contradicts these qualities. This Qur’aan that he brought and his history bear witness to the truth of these claims.

6-

The English philosopher Thomas Carlyle, the Nobel Prize winner, says in his book Heroes:

It is very shameful for any individual in this era to listen to what is said about the religion of Islam being a fabrication and Muhammad being a treacherous fabricator. Throughout his life we see him holding firm beliefs, sincere in resolve, generous and kind, compassionate, pious, virtuous, very serious. In spite of that, he was easy-going, cheerful, friendly, and even sometimes light-hearted. He was just, sincere in intention, smart, chivalrous, and quick-witted, as if he carried in his heart the lamps of every dark night, filled with light; a naturally great man who never studied in school or at the hand of a teacher, because he had no need of that.

7-

Goethe, the German poet, said:

We Europeans with all our concepts and ideas have not yet attained that which Muhammad attained, and no one will ever surpass him. I searched in history for the loftiest example for man to follow, and I found it in the Prophet Muhammad. Thus the truth must prevail and become supreme, because Muhammad succeeded in subjugating the whole world by means of the message of Divine Oneness.

--

If that is the case, then the entire world – with no alternative – must regard the greatness of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) among all of creation above all greatness, and his virtue above all virtues, and his status as greater than any other. The world must unite in believing in the message of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and that he is the Final Prophet of Allaah.

We would like to make the most of this opportunity to call these people to Islam, for what their sinful hands have fabricated cannot be erased except by Islam. But if they are stubborn and persist in their ways, then let them receive tidings of the punishment of Hell, to abide therein forever. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Verily, whosoever sets up partners (in worship) with Allaah, then Allaah has forbidden Paradise to him, and the Fire will be his abode. And for the Zaalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers) there are no helpers”

[al-Maa’idah 5:72]

“And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers”

[Aal ‘Imraan 3:85]

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “By the One in Whose hand is the soul of Muhammad, no one among this nation, Jew or Christian, hears of me then dies not believing in that with which I was sent, but he will be one of the people of the Fire.” Narrated by Muslim (153).

Secondly:

Allaah is wise and does not decree anything that is pure evil; rather there must be something good in it for His believing slaves, no matter how evil it appears to people. The Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) spoke the truth when he said: “How wonderful is the situation of the believer, for all his affairs are good. If something good happens to him, he gives thanks for it and that is good for him; if something bad happens to him, he bears it with patience, and that is good for him. This does not apply to anyone but the believer.” Narrated by Muslim (2999).

Concerning the incident of the slander (al-ifk) – which is well known – Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Consider it not a bad thing for you. Nay, it is good for you. Unto every man among them will be paid that which he had earned of the sin, and as for him among them who had the greater share therein, his will be a great torment”

[al-Noor 24:11]

There follow some of the good things that have resulted from this sinful crime.

1.

What was concealed in the hearts of these criminals, such as resentment and hatred of the Muslims, has been made known, even though they pretend most of the time to be peaceful.

“Hatred has already appeared from their mouths, but what their breasts conceal is far worse”

[Aal ‘Imraan 3:118]

2.

Exposure of the West’s double standards. Here they cite freedom of opinion, but every wise man knows that this so-called freedom of opinion should stop before violating the sanctity of others and transgressing against them. They are lying in their claims of freedom of opinion. We all remember what happened a few years ago when one government decided to destroy the idols in their country; there was a global outcry! What about this so-called freedom of opinion? Why don’t they regard this also as freedom of opinion?

3.

Demonstration of the falseness of what some westernizers in our countries say, “Don’t call the non-Muslims kuffaar, rather call them ‘others’ so as not to fan the flames of trouble between us and them.”

But everyone should understand just who it is that hates the other, and does not respect his sanctity, and declares war against him every time he gets the opportunity.

4.

The falseness of their claim with which they have filled the world, namely the dialogue of civilizations that is based on respect for others and not transgressing against them. What kind of dialogue do they want?! What respect do they claim to show? They want us to respect them and honour them, and even to bow and prostrate to them, but all they do is make fun of us and mock us and wrong us even more.

5.

Reviving faith in Muslim hearts. We have seen the Muslims’ reaction which is indicative of deeply-rooted faith in their hearts and the extent of their love for the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him); even among those who neglect some religious duties leapt to defend our noble Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

6.

Uniting the Muslims. We have seen – praise be to Allaah – solidarity among the Muslims who have adopted the same stance despite the differences in their countries and languages.

7.

It has become apparent that the West is ganging up against Islam. As soon as that country sought the help of their fellow, they all stood up to support that country and the criminals encouraged one another to publish these pictures in their newspaper, so that the Muslims would know that they are all united and that we cannot confront them all.

8.

Some Muslims were keen to call these people to Islam and to show them the true image of this religion. We have seen Muslims racing to publish books in the language of these people so that the scales will fall from their eyes and they may see clearly.

9.

The effectiveness of Muslim boycotts against the products of those who transgressed against the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) has been proven. Their nation did not respond to any official or political requests, even at the highest levels, but the boycott did not last more than a few days before the newspaper that was in the wrong and its chief editor offered apologies and changed their tone, so the Muslims softened their stance somewhat.

This appears to be the new weapon of the Muslims, that they can use to influence and harm their enemies.

10.

A clear message was sent to the West: that we Muslims will never accept to see our religion insulted or humiliated, or any transgression against our Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). We will all sacrifice ourselves for him.

Thirdly:

As for our role in all of this:

1.

We must denounce it forcefully, each of us according to his abilities, by sending letters and articles, or making phone calls, to their government, foreign affairs departments and newspapers.

2.

We should demand a clear and sincere apology from them, not deception or justification of the crime which they call an apology. We do not want an apology for showing disrespect towards the Muslims; rather we want an admission of error and an apology for that error.

3.

We should request them to punish the criminals for their crime.

4.

We should also request them to stop their governments’ transgressions against Islam and the Muslims.

5.

We should translate books that call to Islam into the language of these people, and books that explain about Islam and its Prophet, and his biography.

6.

We should buy time on radio and television programs to defend the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), which should be hosted by people of ability and well-founded knowledge, who know how to speak convincingly to Westerners, of whom there are many, praise be to Allaah.

7.

We should write strongly worded articles to be published in magazines, newspapers and web sites in various languages.

8.

With regard to boycotting their products, if the boycott will have an effect on them – which is what actually happens – then why don’t we boycott them and look for other companies that are owned by Muslims?

9.

We should resist this malicious attack against Islam and its Prophet; by highlighting the beauty of Islam and the fact that it is in accordance with sound reasoning, and responding to the specious arguments of the criminals.

10.

We should adhere to the Sunnah and follow the guidance of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) in all things, and be patient in doing so.

“But if you remain patient and become Al-Muttaqoon (the pious), not the least harm will their cunning do to you”

[Aal ‘Imraan 3:120]

11.

We should strive to call these people, for although we look at them through a lens of hatred and resentment, we also look at them with compassion, for soon they will die and will be among the people of Hell, if they die in this state; so we should call them to Islam and salvation, out of mercy and compassion towards them.

We ask Allaah to cause His religion to prevail and to support His close friends, and to humiliate His enemies.

“And Allaah has full power and control over His Affairs, but most of men know not”

[Yoosuf 12:21]

May Allaah send blessings and peace upon our Prophet Muhammad.

And Allaah knows best.



http://islamqa.info/en/ref/86109
Reply

~Zaria~
09-21-2012, 06:32 PM
Show your support in this great initiative insha Allah.




Reply

czgibson
09-21-2012, 08:46 PM
Greetings,

I think the protesters who engaged in violence in their reaction to the latest anti-Islamic provocations must have forgotten about this verse:

ادْعُ إِلِى سَبِيلِ رَبِّكَ بِالْحِكْمَةِ وَالْمَوْعِظَةِ الْحَسَنَةِ وَجَادِلْهُم بِالَّتِي هِيَ أَحْسَنُ إِنَّ رَبَّكَ هُوَ أَعْلَمُ بِمَن ضَلَّ عَن سَبِيلِهِ وَهُوَ أَعْلَمُ بِالْمُهْتَدِينَ (16:125)

16:125 (Picktall) Call unto the way of thy Lord with wisdom and fair exhortation, and reason with them in the better way. Lo! thy Lord is best aware of him who strayeth from His way, and He is Best Aware of those who go aright. -
They have done far more to damage the reputation of Islam than any film or cartoon.



I would like to address one section of the strange article posted above by Zaria.

A list of non-Muslims are quoted giving praise to Muhammad (pbuh). Immediately after the quotes, the article says this:

If that is the case, then the entire world – with no alternative – must regard the greatness of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) among all of creation above all greatness, and his virtue above all virtues, and his status as greater than any other. The world must unite in believing in the message of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and that he is the Final Prophet of Allaah.
How can this be a valid conclusion after a list of quotes by people who conspicuously did not convert to Islam?

Michael Hart said in his book The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History (p. 13), where he put Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) at the head of his list of one hundred:

I chose Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) to be top of this list … because Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular levels.
The quotation has been altered: Hart did not include the words "(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)".

The Englishman George Bernard Shaw wrote a book called Muhammad, which was burned by the British authorities.
Shaw was not an Englishman; he was Irish. I would very much like to hear more about the book referred to and the burning incident. It is not listed in any of the major bibliographies of Shaw's works.

Annie Besant was a prominent secularist and later theosophist. At no point did she become a Muslim.

The Austrian Schabrak said:

Mankind may be proud of having a man like Muhammad among them, for despite being illiterate he was able more than ten centuries ago to introduce legislation that we Europeans would be the happiest ever if we could produce something of equally high quality.
Who is The Austrian Schabrak?

Samuel Marinus Zwemer dedicated his life to Christian missionary work in Islamic countries. His high opinion of Muhammad (pbuh) as a historical figure does not obscure the fact that he is a deeply ironic choice to call in support of the Islamic cause.

The English philosopher Thomas Carlyle, the Nobel Prize winner, says in his book Heroes:
Thomas Carlyle was Scottish, not English. He died fourteen years before the establishment of the Nobel prizes. The collection of essays referred to is called On Heroes, Hero-Worship, and the Heroic in History. His quote praising Muhammad (pbuh) makes sense only in the context of his other remarks about Islam in the same essay. His opinion of the Qur'an is never quoted in Muslim apologetics, and I shall not repeat it here.

The description of Goethe as a "German poet" is a very limited way of describing his many works in various fields. The author of the article would very much like us to accept Goethe as an authority, but does not want to go to the trouble of actually finding out who Goethe is, or reading any of his works.

The bottom line is this: Muhammad (pbuh) was a historical figure of massive importance. Nobody can deny it. Does this mean that his claims are true? No. Does the quoted acknowledgement of many Western writers advance the Islamic cause the slightest bit? No.

Why then is this strange list of quotes repeatedly posted all over the internet? Why is it that the Muslims who post it are not embarrassed by its many inaccuracies? Who is convinced by it?

Peace
Reply

جوري
09-21-2012, 09:00 PM
Originally Posted by czgibson
They have done far more to damage the reputation of Islam than any film or cartoon.
You know this because you surveyed the damage?

Originally Posted by czgibson
How can this be a valid conclusion after a list of quotes by people who conspicuously did not convert to Islam?
does one have to adopt completely the beliefs and lifestyle of those whom they admire partially or totally?.. That can only be the tendency of someone who draws satisfaction out of overly simplistic conclusions!

Originally Posted by czgibson
The quotation has been altered: Hart did not include the words "(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)".
So?

Originally Posted by czgibson
Shaw was not an Englishman; he was Irish. I would very much like to hear more about the book referred to and the burning incident. It is not listed in any of the major bibliographies of Shaw's works.

This reminds me of your previous refusal to accept that Ibn Rushd's books were burnt by the church. Is that you can't do simple research or that you enjoy showing off that college education?- The rest of the pedantry is more of the same!..
The way I see it, you're the one who should be embarrassed always niggling over petty details & presumptions over what we've read or allegedly haven't!

best,
Reply

czgibson
09-21-2012, 09:09 PM
Great. Thanks for that.

Anyone else?

Peace
Reply

Independent
09-21-2012, 09:35 PM
Originally Posted by ~Zaria~
The Englishman George Bernard Shaw wrote a book called Muhammad, which was burned by the British authorities.
As a Bernard Shaw fan, I felt obliged to hunt this one down. It's tricky. There certainly was no book, so there was nothing to be burned by the British or anyone else. But the quote itself seems to come from "Genuine Islam", a magazine published in the 1930s produced by the All-Malaya Muslim Missionary Society in Singapore, under the auspices of Maulana Abdul Aleem Siddique and Syed Ibrahim bin Omar al-Sagoff. Shaw had been touring the region and the quote is from an interview with him. However, it doesn't form part of the main text and - whatever he said, he would have said it with his usual irony.

For instance, this is what he had to say about religion a couple of years later: '[In Egypt and India] the apparent multiplicity of Gods is bewildering at the first glance; but you presently discover that they are all the same one God in different aspects and functions and even sexes. There is always one uttermost God who defies personification. This makes Hinduism the most tolerant religion in the world, because its one transcendent God includes all possible Gods…Hinduism is so elastic and so subtle that the profoundest Methodist and the crudest idolater are equally at home in it.
Islam is very different, being ferociously intolerant...You accepted Allah or you had your throat cut by someone who did accept him, and who went to Paradise for having sent you to Hell. Mahomet was a great Protestant religious force, like George Fox or Wesley…'

This quote now has a life of its own in collections like the above and will probably live longer than most of his plays...
Reply

glo
09-21-2012, 09:48 PM
^
Ashamed to admit that I've never heard of Bernard Shaw until now. Am googling him myself now ...
You learn something new every day ... and sometimes in the most unexpected places. :)
Reply

StopS
09-21-2012, 10:12 PM
Originally Posted by WRITER
From http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Libel :

libel 1) n. to publish in print (including pictures), writing or broadcast through radio, television or film, an untruth about another which will do harm to that person or his/her reputation, by tending to bring the target into ridicule, hatred, scorn or contempt of others. Libel is the written or broadcast form of defamation, distinguished from slander which is oral defamation. It is a tort (civil wrong) making the person or entity (like a newspaper, magazine or political organization) open to a lawsuit for damages by the person who can prove the statement about him/her was a lie. Publication need only be to one person, but it must be a statement which claims to be fact, and is not clearly identified as an opinion. While it is sometimes said that the person making the libelous statement must have been intentional and malicious, actually it need only be obvious that the statement would do harm and is untrue. Proof of malice, however, does allow a party defamed to sue for "general damages" for damage to reputation, while an inadvertent libel limits the damages to actual harm (such as loss of business) called "special damages." "Libel per se" involves statements so vicious that malice is assumed and does not require a proof of intent to get an award of general damages. Libel against the reputation of a person who has died will allow surviving members of the family to bring an action for damages. Most states provide for a party defamed by a periodical to demand a published retraction. If the correction is made, then there is no right to file a lawsuit. Governmental bodies are supposedly immune for actions for libel on the basis that there could be no intent by a non-personal entity, and further, public records are exempt from claims of libel. However, there is at least one known case in which there was a financial settlement as well as a published correction when a state government newsletter incorrectly stated that a dentist had been disciplined for illegal conduct. The rules covering libel against a "public figure" (particularly a political or governmental person) are special, based on U. S. Supreme Court decisions. The key is that to uphold the right to express opinions or fair comment on public figures, the libel must be malicious to constitute grounds for a lawsuit for damages. Minor errors in reporting are not libel, such as saying Mrs. Jones was 55 when she was only 48, or getting an address or title incorrect. 2) v. to broadcast or publish a written defamatory statement. (See: defamation, slander, libel per se, public figure)
Now use this to show how it is applicable to the case at hand.
Reply

GuestFellow
09-21-2012, 10:42 PM
Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif
As I've said many times in the past and I will repeat again here: I do not personally encourage protests, or violent protests, nor the killings of the innocent, even if these were the people in the US embassies. If they are innocent then I do not see why they should be subject to an attack. However, if (non-violent) protesting pressures the government and produces a change then we must protest.

What I've been suggesting, and what I've always suggested, is not protesting but more productive steps in countering these insults.
:sl:

I'm not sure if you understand what I'm advocating. So I will try to make myself clear.

I'm saying that some Muslims gave this video publicity. They reacted to it. It is likely the video would have died away if those Muslims did not respond to it. The video was cheap and most people did not even hear of it.

You can protest, pressure the government to remove the material, attempt to introduce laws to prevent these materials from spreading or boycott industries that make this material accessible. None of this will work. It did not work for the cartoons, nor will it work for this video. People will still find ways to insult the Prophet (P.B.U.H) in other ways. If this video is blocked/banned, some people will find ways to unblock access to the video or even start creating worse videos.

What some Muslims fail to comprehend is that ignoring something can in some cases end something. Why is this not seen as a productive solution? Or do we need to do something more dramatic to end something?

What productive steps?
Reply

Muhammad
09-21-2012, 10:46 PM
Greetings czgibson,

It's nice to be seeing you on the forum again. :)

Originally Posted by czgibson
Immediately after the quotes, the article says this:

...

How can this be a valid conclusion after a list of quotes by people who conspicuously did not convert to Islam?
It is not clear that the conclusion is based upon those quotes alone. But the fact that these people did not convert to Islam does not invalidate their praise and respect for the Prophet :arabic5:, which is perhaps the point being made - that even non-Muslims can appreciate the noble status of the Prophet :arabic5:. Muslims are not unfamiliar with the notion that despite being convinced of the truth, a person may still not accept it for other reasons, as was the case with the Prophet's :arabic5: beloved uncle.


The bottom line is this: Muhammad (pbuh) was a historical figure of massive importance. Nobody can deny it. Does this mean that his claims are true? No.
I'm sure you'll appreciate that there is so much more to his claims than this. Your time on this forum has exposed you to the many aspects of such a claim.

Does the quoted acknowledgement of many Western writers advance the Islamic cause the slightest bit? No.
Not the slightest bit? If it was only Muslim writers, one might complain of subjectivity. Quoting from Western writers shows that is not so.

Why then is this strange list of quotes repeatedly posted all over the internet? Why is it that the Muslims who post it are not embarrassed by its many inaccuracies? Who is convinced by it?
Regrettably, many are not as familiar with them as yourself, hence they are not aware of the inaccuracies. However, it does not render the concept invalid altogether.


Peace.
Reply

Ramadhan
09-22-2012, 01:07 AM
Originally Posted by Independent
For instance, this is what he had to say about religion a couple of years later: '[In Egypt and India] the apparent multiplicity of Gods is bewildering at the first glance; but you presently discover that they are all the same one God in different aspects and functions and even sexes. There is always one uttermost God who defies personification.
Egypt has a multiplicity of gods?

You are sure this is a verbatim quote, or an altered one as you have alleged against Shaw's quote about Islam?
Reply

joesixpack
09-22-2012, 01:25 AM
From my perspective, the response of the Muslim world should be to point to the 10+ centuries of Muslim achievements in art, science, mathematics and literature, and the gift of the Renaissance that the Islamic world handed to Europe. Then they should show the film to contrast their own historical achievements with the those of their detractors.

Honestly, the film is a huge disgrace to the filmmakers themselves. It would be a greater shame for me to have created such a film than to have had a film of that caliber made about me or my loved ones.
Reply

Hulk
09-22-2012, 04:07 AM
It's just sad that there are people who go out of their way to do such things.
Reply

joesixpack
09-22-2012, 04:16 AM
Originally Posted by Hulk
It's just sad that there are people who go out of their way to do such things.
It is sad, but I think it's more of a reflection on their own lack of compassion and intellectual development that they would produce something so puerile and hate-filled. The Arab world has much history to be proud of, unlike the producers of this movie.
Reply

Independent
09-22-2012, 08:41 AM
Originally Posted by Ramadhan
Egypt has a multiplicity of gods?

You are sure this is a verbatim quote, or an altered one as you have alleged against Shaw's quote about Islam?
Egypt doesn't, but India does. Interesting that you're concerned about my sources but not the sources used in this list.

Shaw is talking mainly talking about Hinduism here. I'm quoting it just to show that his views are, at the very least, more complex than has been suggested here and that he very often speaks ironically, not literally.

The point is that this list of quotes from western converts/sympathisers cannot be trusted. In Shaw's case the quote is not accurately transcribed, may not be from him anyway, was not part of a book, and was never burned by the British. That's a lot of errors in a short line. It's not just a misquote, someone has been actively making stuff up. At least half of the other quotes are suspect in similar ways.

Whilst looking for the source of the quote I found the same list or variation on it in 10 other Muslim sites or forums. People have questioned its validity elsewhere too but that doesn't stop it. The list has been doing the rounds for years and probably will have a permanent life in cyberspace. I believe this is what they call 'propaganda'.

It's also downright lazy because the world is a big place, western writers are hugely varied, and you could find genuine quotes to support almost anything you want if you made the effort.
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Bint-e-Adam
09-22-2012, 03:04 PM
As We as being muslims are not doing anything so intense to stop them. Allah has Himself stopped themand ruined their cinema by an earthquake.
A picture of a cinema in America that was going to play the film of the Prophet Sep 18 at noon.An earthquake hit that area that caused the
building into two pieces.The Americans are so shocked at the miracle that they didn’t allow full media coverage on the topic and that’s why you didn’t hear about it on the news today!
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Independent
09-22-2012, 05:06 PM
Originally Posted by emaan_asif
A picture of a cinema in America that was going to play the film of the Prophet Sep 18 at noon.An earthquake hit that area that caused the building into two pieces.The Americans are so shocked at the miracle that they didn’t allow full media coverage on the topic and that’s why you didn’t hear about it on the news today!
Looks like this one's pure spoof. The picture comes from an earthquake in Chile in 2010. I can't post the link but this is it:
dreamofarlequin.wordpress.com/2010/02/28/1974/

On a spoof-buster site called wafflesatnoon.com it says this:

The photo
The photograph being circulated was actually taken from a new story in 2010 about an earthquake in Chile. The actual photo’s caption reads: Residents look at a collapsed building in Concepcion, Chile, Saturday Feb. 27, 2010 after an 8.8-magnitude struck central Chile. The epicenter was 70 miles (115 kilometers) from Concepcion, Chile’s second-largest city.
The Earthquake
According to the US Geological Service, the most recent significant earthquake in the US came on September 7, which was a small 3.4 magnitude tremor in Beverly Hills, California. No damage was reported from this quake.


It should also be noted that as of this writing, no public screenings of the film are known due to security risks.
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جوري
09-22-2012, 05:17 PM
Originally Posted by Independent
Interesting that you're concerned about my sources but not the sources used in this list.
Are you exempt from the restrictions you'd place on others?
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Independent
09-22-2012, 05:21 PM
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
Are you exempt from the restrictions you'd place on others?
Not so far :)
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PurpleCup
09-22-2012, 10:33 PM
This is a good question. One is which I will reply based on how we should react when someone like Christians approach us to try to get us to leave Islam for their religion. This topic came up one time where I would be approached by Christian. My husband said I should act annoyed and ask them to leave. Because they did not approach me but with politness, I find it hard to act annoyed. He said I should be insulted when they want to tell me my religion is wrong. That then prompted me to ask a question on linkedin about how they felt we should react when someone tries to debate our religion. Many felt that we should be kind and gently debate with them.
I do not feel I am skilled to debate about religions because I was not raised with any religion. I know nothing about Christianity, except the basics. I could never debate.

I would never become out right crazy just because someone wanted to talk religion. I would insulted if someone wanted to discriminate because I am Muslimah. Which did happen to me at a Motel 6 in Bakersfield CA. Of which I contacted the Mayor, the BBB, The Press, a lawyer, CEO of Motel 6, Customer Relations and so forth. That was something in which I took insult to. I would also feel insult if someone starts to talk rubbish of Islam.

I never watched that video clip. I will never. I do not want to partake in anything which would insult my brothers and sisters in faith.

I do feel however I am proud of the Muslims for taking a serious stance on the subject. I respect when countries like Saudi Arabia, Jordan threaten Google to remove the video or else their channel will be blocked. Makes me want to give them a standing ovation. It's a peaceful protest but oh so powerful one.
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StopS
09-23-2012, 12:38 AM
Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif
Are you kidding me? Bro, I'm sure your not incapable of understanding the language I'm using so please don't get into petty arguments about the words 'invalid scientific fact'. I'm sure this statement makes sense in the way it was said.

And I do encourage you to prove to me that it is scientifically inaccurate. I do not accept disguised facts that are actually personal and uninformed opinions.
Well, it's quite simple, really.

A fact is something which has been shown to be correct and proven in reality.

fact (fkt)n.1. Knowledge or information based on real occurrences: an account based on fact; a blur of fact and fancy.
2. a. Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed: Genetic engineering is now a fact. That Chaucer was a real person is an undisputed fact.
b. A real occurrence; an event: had to prove the facts of the case.
c. Something believed to be true or real: a document laced with mistaken facts.

3. A thing that has been done, especially a crime: an accessory before the fact.

4. Law The aspect of a case at law comprising events determined by evidence: The jury made a finding of fact.
Secondly, in science, the highest form of describing our natural world is a theory, which is based on facts. (for definition, see above)



Thirdly, something which is invalid is something which is not true, applicable or factual.

in·val·id 2 (n-vld)adj.1. Not legally or factually valid; null: an invalid license.

2. Falsely based or reasoned; faulty: an invalid argument.

So you have created an oxymoron in every way, a contradiction in itself.

Could you please state how your 'invalid scientific fact' makes any sense?
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جوري
09-23-2012, 12:49 AM
Originally Posted by StopS
the highest form of describing our natural world is a theory, which is based on facts
Originally Posted by StopS
So you have created an oxymoron in every way, a contradiction in itself.
lol.. that's funny..
perhaps you should do some research before accusing others of exactly what ails you:

theory: A tentative insight into the natural world; a concept that is not yet verified but that if true would explain certain facts or phenomena
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جوري
09-23-2012, 02:47 AM
Originally Posted by Zaria
must regard the greatness of Muhammad
Originally Posted by czgibson
list of quotes by people who conspicuously did not convert to Islam?
was wondering how you reconcile that comment with this comment:

Originally Posted by czgibson
It's also easy to answer: there are lots of examples of people who love people they've never met. Think of people who have a favourite footballer or a hero of some kind.
http://www.islamicboard.com/clarific...-love-god.html

It's best to keep track of everything you write, so when you change convictions you don't leave evidence behind.

best,
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czgibson
09-23-2012, 01:45 PM
Greetings,
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال



was wondering how you reconcile that comment with this comment:



http://www.islamicboard.com/clarific...-love-god.html

It's best to keep track of everything you write, so when you change convictions you don't leave evidence behind.

best,
What are you getting at? You may imagine there's a contradiction there, but I don't see it. Maybe your point would be clearer if you quoted complete sentences.

Peace
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جوري
09-23-2012, 02:39 PM
You couldn't follow that when you're the paragon of niggling? Which part was difficult for you to understand?
In one post you proudly point out that none of those figures quoted embraced Islam with the natural conclusion that admiration, love or praise can only be sincere if the person is to adopt completely the life and lifestyle choices of he who's being admired and on your previous you claim that it's a nonquestion to presume that one can't love nor admire someone they'd never seen or met!
But then you already knew what I was driving at or are you as always looking for a stylish exit from what I am to write?
At any rate it won't take others long to figure out your style which you believe you hide well behind overblown erudition!


Best
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Independent
09-23-2012, 08:27 PM
In another twist to this story a Pakistan Government Minister, Ghulam Ahmad Bilour, has placed a bounty on the head of the alleged American film-maker. He is offering $100,000 for his murder. This is reminiscent of the Ayatollah Khomeini's fatwah on the author Salman Rushdie. The Pakistan Prime Minister has dissociated his Government from the bounty but - extraordinarily - he claims he can't control Bilour (who is in a coalition party). Difficult to believe.

Bilour is the Pakistan Minister for Railways.
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جوري
09-23-2012, 08:47 PM
in an even more incredible twist. France is prohibiting Muslim's rights to free speech by banning protests:

http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/0...8KLI5W20120921
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czgibson
09-23-2012, 08:52 PM
Greetings,
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
But then you already knew what I was driving at or are you as always looking for a stylish exit from what I am to write?
You are welcome to think whatever you like.

Peace
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Independent
09-23-2012, 08:58 PM
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
in an even more incredible twist. France is prohibiting Muslim's rights to free speech by banning protests:
Although, I notice within the link you have posted that the head of the French Muslim Council agrees with this decision:

'Mohammed Moussaoui, head of the French Muslim Council, described both the film and the cartoons as "acts of aggression" but urged French Muslims not to protest in the streets.


"I repeat the council's call not to protest. Any protest could be hijacked and counterproductive," he told radio RFI.
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جوري
09-23-2012, 09:00 PM
any person who follows your posts will draw the same conclusion.
I don't think much of what you write otherwise and I certainly don't lose sleep over it.


best,
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جوري
09-23-2012, 09:04 PM
Originally Posted by Independent


"I repeat the council's call not to protest. .
Point being? This isn't about whether or not a protest is what Muslims should do. It is about western hypocrisy!
They rant about free speech and in the same breath they'd deny others that very same right.

If you can't see something wrong with this and I am seeing a laundry list of excuses, then there's something seriously wrong with you, and I don't see a point in continuing this dialogue as it seems more of a one group soliloquy and a deflection!

best,
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Independent
09-23-2012, 09:41 PM
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
Point being?
Point being, of course, that you need to read your own links a little more closely before you post them, in case they make the opposite argument. But I sympathise. It's easy to make mistake.
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Aprender
09-23-2012, 09:54 PM
Originally Posted by Independent
But I sympathise. It's easy to make mistake.
You are very close minded. I'm waiting to read a post by you that shows you are open to discussion and listening to other perspectives. Quite frankly, I'm not sure why you post on this forum. You seem to be only here to push off your own world views without trying to learn something new and take other ideas into consideration. Your perspective is only one of many.

I think you missed something here. The point of that article was not to show that some Muslims believe that they shouldn't protest the cartoons to begin with. The point was that Western countries love to talk about the right of freedom of speech and expression, yet ban Muslims in France from protesting the offensive cartoons, even if peacefully. I don't think he necessarily agreed with the ban but talked about how it could be counterproductive with all things considered. It's hypocritical to put a ban on something like this if a nation prides itself on upholding freedom of speech and expression but doesn't apply it to certain groups.
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جوري
09-23-2012, 09:56 PM
Originally Posted by Independent
Point being, of course, that you need to read your own links a little more closely before you post them, in case they make the opposite argument. But I sympathise. It's easy to make mistake.
Please don't confabulate when you end up with a foot in your mouth- it is a waste of your time and worse yet a waste of mine!
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Independent
09-23-2012, 10:04 PM
Originally Posted by Aprender
I think you missed something here
There is a serious point here, which is that although freedom of speech (and freedom to protest) is a vital right, it cannot be at the cost of life. Many people have already died around the world in protests, sometimes killed by their own side. Both the French Government and the French Muslim leaders seem to believe that, for the moment at least, it's not safe to organise mass protests. If the Muslim leader had disgreed, then you would have a point.
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جوري
09-23-2012, 10:14 PM
Originally Posted by Independent
There is a serious point here, which is that although freedom of speech (and freedom to protest) is a vital right, it cannot be at the cost of life. Many people have already died around the world in protests, sometimes killed by their own side. Both the French Government and the French Muslim leaders seem to believe that, for the moment at least, it's not safe to organise mass protests. If the Muslim leader had disgreed, then you would have a point.
There are no Muslim 'leaders' in the west, someone who gives a sermon advising against a protest isn't a sovereign over what the people are going to do or should do. Stop it, stop the BS, I am sick of it. furthermore, what exactly is the end result of hate crimes and hate speech? You don't have western morons motivated by hate of the crap they see and believe and start pillaging, raping, urinating on the dead and stealing their body parts while droning or physically killing women and children in the night something serious to consider?
Get your head out of there!

best,
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~Zaria~
09-24-2012, 08:15 PM





Source: Unknown
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StopS
09-25-2012, 07:34 PM
ok I give up
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Scimitar
09-25-2012, 07:39 PM
Why? Please entertain us a little more :D
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MartyrX
09-26-2012, 12:05 AM
I have no problems with the protests, however I feel like protesting against the United States is kind of pointless since the film was done without government support. What we need to do is not react violently, as we have made the Islamophobes jobs easier. We need to take a lesson from our Prophet and be the better person.
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LearningTQuran
09-27-2012, 07:05 PM
I think no killing people would have been a nice way to react. Just show tolerance as the Christians and Jews do when they're mocked.
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Hulk
09-27-2012, 07:09 PM
Originally Posted by LearningTQuran
I think no killing people would have been a nice way to react. Just show tolerance as the Christians and Jews do when they're mocked.
None of us here condone any killing or any physical act of violence but just because you(metaphorically) sit still when someone insults your mum doesn't mean others must do the same.
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sister herb
09-27-2012, 07:09 PM
Of course no killing but I am not sure do they (Christians and Jews) really show tolerance. Maybe they don´t see mocking so often or they don´t even think it is mocking.
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