French Magazine to print cartoons of prophet Mohammed (PBUH)

[User29123]

:sl:

I think they are all pushing it now,I think Muslims should just go back to Muslims countries then stop the oil supply, these guys can work on their own :)


http://news.sky.com/story/986820/fra...-cartoon-fears

[جوري]

walhi they're begging for a world war III. Problem is we're spinning on two different axises- fighting our own despots inside and the rabid dogs outside..at any rate drawing a pic and naming doesn't denote it is the prophet etc.
It would be interesting to note that the Vatican filed a suit against a magazine for mocking drawings against the pope and won the suit and the same with the naked duchess and they also won.. there's no end to their stench otherwise..

:w:

[Jedi_Mindset]

walhi they're begging for a world war III. Problem is we're spinning on two different axises- fighting our own despots inside and the rabid dogs outside..at any rate drawing a pic and naming doesn't denote it is the prophet etc.
It would be interesting to note that the Vatican filed a suit against a magazine for mocking drawings against the pope and won the suit and the same with the naked duchess and they also won.. there's no end to their stench otherwise..

:w:

Thats their plan, to start it. And i have no doubts anymore- i think 2013 will be the start but thats me, looking at the events now. the sudden war games in israel, persian gulf, iran, turkey...et cetera. I have no knowledge and especially not from the unseen but man, they're moving fast. are we prepared, our imaan?

[ba51th]

seeing all of this anti-Islam lately make me want to be dead already...

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[Jedi_Mindset]

seeing all of this anti-Islam lately make me want to be dead already...

do not wish for death.

[ba51th]

if you defend your religion, they will call you terrorist or radical, if you let them keep mocking your religion they will never hesitate to cross the red line...

I hope they drop nuke on me, really...

[Jedi_Mindset]

if you defend your religion, they will call you terrorist or radical, if you let them keep mocking your religion they will never hesitate to cross the red line...

I hope they drop nuke on me, really...

Wallahi, are you such a weak person? Where is you strenght, where is your imaan? a muslim simply doesnt care for what the disbelievers say, remember the afflictions prophet muhammed(Saw) and the sahaba(Ra) suffered...and they still kept on and on till islam became succesful.

Hold in your emotions.

[observer]

It would be interesting to note that the Vatican filed a suit against a magazine for mocking drawings against the pope and won the suit and the same with the naked duchess and they also won.. there's no end to their stench otherwise..

That wasn't in France though:

Charlie Hebdo, known in France for its scatological cartoons, has caricatured other religious figures in the past, including a "Pope special" in 2008 which resulted in an unsuccessful court action accusing the magazine of inciting hate.

The naked duchess - do you mean the recent scandal with the British princess Kate Middleton? That complaint was upheld because of French privacy laws - although the photos have been published in various other countries where the law is not the same.

[DavidK565]

The purpose of the cartoons is to provoke a response that will reinforce the notions that the rest of the world has regarding Islam. It has become commonplace to see irrational overreaction and violence to provocations such as these, which leads to more provocation which again proves their point.

The only way to break this cycle is for the offended to NOT take the bait. They have to learn not to burn flags, scream "Death to (fill in your country)!", or murder ambassadors. By demonstrating this type of control, the world could see that Muslims are rational and peaceful. And when that happens, the provocations will decrease. And with that, there will be less cause for violent outbursts in the first place.

Just remember that your beliefs do not have to be everyone else's beliefs. The Prophet does not mean the same to them as he does to you. And certainly, if you have true belief in your faith and your god, then certainly those who mock the Prophet will get what is coming to them, without any interference from you. So let it go, let it roll off your back, and let what will be.

[Al-Wasia]

"French Magazines are now publishing more and more cartoons etc. that mock Islamic beliefs and are purposely targeting sentiments of millions of Muslims worldwide. Their take on this: Protection of Freedom of Press.


Oh Muslims.. The more you revolt and become volatile the more you will see these actions taking place. This is what they want. They want to keep us distracted and busy being angry and upset over things.


Wakeup.. Have our demonstrations affected anything in the past? Did our leaders ever take our demands seriously?


Stop being angry and think what you can "really" do? How can you "really" protest that would make a change?


Like they are claiming to protect the right of the press... You not only have a right but an obligation to protect the Prophet (saw)...How can you do that?


Follow his teachings.. Follow his Sunnah.. Turn to Allah swt.. Beg Him to change our condition of humiliation. Change yourself once and for all. If you want to protect the Prophet (saw), protect Him in your actions, beliefs, legacy, and manners.


Remember... What the Prophet (saw) said: No one becomes a true believer unless I become more dear to him than anything else.


It is Time to become a believer... Time to own up to our claim of "loving" him.. Time to show that we really are sincere. Follow him through his sunnah and beg Allah swt for guidance and pray that we are able to do justice to our obligations.


Our demonstrations, condemnations, boycotts, protests, demeaning others will not avail us anything. We need to take actions that would make a difference not cause us to look like fools and emotional maniacs in front of others.


We are the people of forbearance and wisdom.. We need to demonstrate that above all else...."

[جوري]

That wasn't in France though:

it doesn't matter where in the west, what matters is that it can be done.. Of course there are many other means such as when we boycotted dutch products and their businesses suffered!
nonetheless this again points out the double standard!

[observer]

We are the people of forbearance and wisdom.. We need to demonstrate that above all else....

A nice quote, I think.

I think there will be a few more of these incidents in the coming months. Any satirical magazine or "hard-hitting" newspaper wanting to make a statement (and up it's sales - reports are that sales of this French magazine have rocketed, especially in Muslim majority areas where many are being bought to be destroyed) knows that they will make the news by being "edgy" and publishing something like this.

It's like a naughty child - stop paying attention and they'll start doing something else.

[observer]

nonetheless this again points out the double standard!

How does it point out a double standard? The French authorities denied the Catholic protest was justified and they have denied the Muslim protest.

it doesn't matter where in the west

You can't talk about the west as one place - that's ridiculous.

[جوري]

How does it point out a double standard? The French authorities denied the Catholic protest was justified and they have denied the Muslim protest.

I wasn't speaking of a protest.
I was speaking of this which is congruous to the thread title:
http://life.nationalpost.com/2012/07...leaks-cover/us to

and also this per regard to the 'duchess'
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...ng-photos.html

or what is wrong with you- why not do some research before you write?

You can't talk about the west as one place - that's ridiculous.

Do you not exercise the same brand of freedom in the west that is missing from the 'muslim world'? Or is a catch all terms & policies only appropriate only when mocking Islam?

[observer]

Do you not exercise the same brand of freedom in the west that is missing from the 'muslim world'

No, we don't. Where do you mean when you say "west"?

You can't talk about the west as one place - that's ridiculous.

I wasn't speaking of a protest...

or what is wrong with you- why not do some research before you write?

Sigh - The Pope article was in Germany, not France.

The French authorities have reacted in exactly the same way with the Muhammed cartoons as they did with the Pope cartoons. How, therefore, does that show a double standard? Or are you counting Germany and France as the same place because they are in "the west"?

By "protest" here, I am talking about the protestations made to the authorities, not a demonstration in the streets.

[جوري]

I am not going to descend down to wordplay simply for your desire to either save face, deflect from the issue completely or dilute the double standard.
I think anyone with the slightest ability to reason can see what's wrong with this picture & especially with regards to what I have posted!

best,

[observer]

I am not going to descend down to wordplay simply for your desire to either save face, deflect from the issue completely or dilute the double standard.
I think anyone with the slightest ability to reason can see what's wrong with this picture & especially with regards to what I have posted!

No wordplay here - The event that you highlighted was in Germany, this latest incident is France. How is pointing this out "wordplay"?

There is no double standard here as France has maintained a consistent line with regard to similar incidents.

I don't need to "save face". You, however, need to recognise that "the west" consists of more than one country. We are not all the same.

[glo]

It's like a naughty child - stop paying attention and they'll start doing something else.

I agree with that.

[glo]

I think there will be a few more of these incidents in the coming months. Any satirical magazine or "hard-hitting" newspaper wanting to make a statement (and up it's sales - reports are that sales of this French magazine have rocketed, especially in Muslim majority areas where many are being bought to be destroyed) knows that they will make the news by being "edgy" and publishing something like this.

Still, I find it upsetting that people - even if it is their legal right - choose to do and say things which they KNOW are deeply insulting and hurtful to other people. :hmm:

I mean, don't we teach our children in the playground not to do that ... when they are about 5??

[جوري]

No wordplay here -

that's exactly what it is sans the skill to hide it well!
And if you had some intellectual honesty you'd have clicked on the second link to see where the suit took place!
Best,

[aamirsaab]

They're doing it for sales pure and simple. Strike while the iron is hot.

Just roll your eyes, shrug your shoulders and move on.

[GuestFellow]

Those behind the French magazine are marching towards hell.

[CosmicPathos]

It goes against Islamic principles, but what if a pseudo-Muslim liberal magazine running from a Muslim country reprints the shots of naked duchess? It would be interesting to see the reaction in Buckingham palace.

I think some communist media groups from Indian subcontinent should already do that, if they really hate the British and their slavery to the colonial British Empire.

Just sayin'. Just throwing the idea out there. :p

[Muezzin]

So it's a French magazine known for sctalogical humour.

I know what scatalogical means.

I now know why this guy decided to publish these cartoons.

(Because otherwise nobody would buy his magazine full of poo jokes)

[Pygoscelis]

Thre is childishness on both "sides". Those deliberately provoking are like naughty boys pulling on the girls' ponytails or shooting spitballs to get a reaction. Those reacting like violent hooligans over anybody either criticizing Islam or drawing Mohammed are like children having a temper tantrum for not getting their way. Showering attention on either one of them will only encourage their behaviours.

[sister herb]

Insult Islam seems to be famous right now.

It is called as freedom of speech.

^o) Oh boy!

[Scimitar]

I guess this means more French people will be looking into Islam then... some of them will accept it too :)

I love it when their plans backfire on them. it's becoming a repeat pattern.

When that pastor of an American church who only had 30 followers, did that "international burn a Quran day" event, his burning of the Quran got more people from his community to actually go out and get a copy of the Quran and study it...

...wanna know how many accepted Islam? more than 30 people... that is more than his entire congregation :D

Let 'em plot and plan... we know who the best of Planners is :)

Allahu Akbar

Scimi

[Scimitar]

Still, I find it upsetting that people - even if it is their legal right - choose to do and say things which they KNOW are deeply insulting and hurtful to other people. :hmm:

I mean, don't we teach our children in the playground not to do that ... when they are about 5??

Yes sister glo, this is a classic example of where "freedom of speech" is in conflict with the "international declaration of human rights".

A hypocrisy in the west. A very clever hypocrisy that goes largely unnoticed ;)

Scimi

EDIT: just wanted to add my final thought on this matter regarding the cartoons and movies and all manner of other profanities against Islam:

(Quran Chapter 3 ayah number 186) Yusuf Ali translation

"Ye shall certainly be tried and tested in your possessions and in your personal selves; and ye shall certainly Hear much that will grieve you, from those who received the Book before you and from those who worship many gods. But if ye persevere patiently, and guard against evil,-then that will be a determining factor in all affairs."

[sister herb]

As much people speaks about Islam thats better.

;D Much more people become interest about Islam.

[observer]

Originally Posted by observer
I think there will be a few more of these incidents in the coming months. Any satirical magazine or "hard-hitting" newspaper wanting to make a statement (and up it's sales - reports are that sales of this French magazine have rocketed, especially in Muslim majority areas where many are being bought to be destroyed) knows that they will make the news by being "edgy" and publishing something like this.
Still, I find it upsetting that people - even if it is their legal right - choose to do and say things which they KNOW are deeply insulting and hurtful to other people.

I mean, don't we teach our children in the playground not to do that ... when they are about 5??

Agree, it's ridiculous.

[observer]

that's exactly what it is sans the skill to hide it well!
And if you had some intellectual honesty you'd have clicked on the second link to see where the suit took place!
Best,

Ok, let's make this simple. You obviously have no desire to read or understand my posts.

If you look at my post at the start of this exchange (which is starting to feel like a LONG time ago), I pointed out to you why the princess' injunction was upheld - because of French laws on personal privacy. PERSONAL privacy.

The link you post to the Pope cartoon/joke details a court case in Germany.

As I pointed out to you - a similar cartoon was published in France and a court case brought in that case failed.

Therefore, the idea that there are double standards at play - as alleged by you - is clearly not true. The French authorities have done exactly the same with these Muhammed cartoons (nothing) as with the Pope cartoons (also nothing).

Now, I'm not sure what part of my posts strikes you as wordplay, I'm not sure if this explanation satisfies your standards for "intellectual honesty" but you are clearly wrong when you say that there are double standards here. French and German laws are different.

[observer]

It goes against Islamic principles, but what if a pseudo-Muslim liberal magazine running from a Muslim country reprints the shots of naked duchess? It would be interesting to see the reaction in Buckingham palace.

It's being done all over Europe - Denmark and Sweden are the latest. They'll be coming to a news-stand near you soon!

French privacy law allowed an injunction against them in France but I don't think they'll try for an injunction in all over publishing countries.

[CosmicPathos]

It's being done all over Europe - Denmark and Sweden are the latest. They'll be coming to a news-stand near you soon!

French privacy law allowed an injunction against them in France but I don't think they'll try for an injunction in all over publishing countries.

That's good to hear. I for one dont feel a bit of sympathy for her or the royal family.

[جوري]

Ok, let's make this simple.

You're so complicated.. Thank God for your presence here to elucidate things in that way only you know how!

You obviously have no desire to read or understand my posts.

That's mutual but not the problem. The problem is your lack of desire to exercise some abstract thinking!

If you look at my post at the start of this exchange (which is starting to feel like a LONG time ago), I pointed out to you why the princess' injunction was upheld - because of French laws on personal privacy. PERSONAL privacy.

Laws are passed arbitrarily, again what's your point? Holocaust denial laws, princess buttercup privacy laws, anti burqa laws (passed almost overnight) anti minaret laws.. do you not see a pattern or we've to take your hands and show you that the laws are nonsensical and selective?

best,

[GuestFellow]

It's being done all over Europe - Denmark and Sweden are the latest. They'll be coming to a news-stand near you soon!

French privacy law allowed an injunction against them in France but I don't think they'll try for an injunction in all over publishing countries.

I wonder how EU law will have an impact on this.

[observer]

The problem is your lack of desire to exercise some abstract thinking!

Of course it is. How could it be anything else?

[Ramadhan]

The purpose of the cartoons is to provoke a response that will reinforce the notions that the rest of the world has regarding Islam. It has become commonplace to see irrational overreaction and violence to provocations such as these, which leads to more provocation which again proves their point.

The only way to break this cycle is for the offended to NOT take the bait. They have to learn not to burn flags, scream "Death to (fill in your country)!", or murder ambassadors. By demonstrating this type of control, the world could see that Muslims are rational and peaceful. And when that happens, the provocations will decrease. And with that, there will be less cause for violent outbursts in the first place.

Just remember that your beliefs do not have to be everyone else's beliefs. The Prophet does not mean the same to them as he does to you. And certainly, if you have true belief in your faith and your god, then certainly those who mock the Prophet will get what is coming to them, without any interference from you. So let it go, let it roll off your back, and let what will be.

I agree that we need not be unjustifiably violent, but I disagree with your proposal that muslims should care less about the vile attempts to insult muslims and painting lies against our beloved prophet SAW.
When we take no action against those vile people, they will not stop, and in fact they will only get motivated and increase their disgusting ways because they see no repercussion or payback for their actions.

Just look at how effective the western jews have been with their intimidation etc that these days no one in the west dare to speak against or deny or mock the sufferings of ashkenazis.

Contrast that to the fate of the christians in the west who now have to accept that their God is being mocked and portrayed in the most vile imaginations possible every single day in the media, entertainment, etc.

[Ramadhan]

It's like a naughty child - stop paying attention and they'll start doing something else.

It is not an apt analogy. Do you really think muslim haters will stop doing it if we stop paying attention? If you do really believe that, I have to question your mental faculty.

I agree with that.

And Glo, please do not pretend that your god is not being mocked every day for entertainment in UK just because christians have long ago cease to pay attention to such vile actions.

[Ramadhan]

I guess this means more French people will be looking into Islam then... some of them will accept it too :)

I love it when their plans backfire on them. it's becoming a repeat pattern.

When that pastor of an American church who only had 30 followers, did that "international burn a Quran day" event, his burning of the Quran got more people from his community to actually go out and get a copy of the Quran and study it...

...wanna know how many accepted Islam? more than 30 people... that is more than his entire congregation :D

Let 'em plot and plan... we know who the best of Planners is :)

Allahu Akbar

Scimi

Amiin Allahumma Amiin

[Perseveranze]

Asalaamu Alaikum,

How times have changed eh?

---

"Bornier himself was the victim of blind and unreasoning Muslim prejudice in regard to his Mahomet. The play was being rehearsed in 1889 when a Turkish newspaper reproduced from a French journal the news of its forthcoming production. The French Foreign Ministry assured the Turkish ambassador in Paris, Es'at Pasha, that the play did not constitute an attack on the Prophet and on the cherished beliefs of the Muslims. Bornier pointed out that the Persian ta'ziyas or passion plays regularly depicted the death of Muhammad as well as those of the Shi'ite martyrs, and he offered to accept prohibition of his work's being played in Algeria and Tunisia. These arguments still failed to satisfy the Turkish authorities, and in 1890 the head of the government, Freycinet, banned the production of Mahomet in France, a prohibition which, it was reported, gave much pleasure to the Sultan Abd al-Hamid II. It must be admitted that Muslims would undeniably find offensive a play in which their Prophet killed himself because of a woman and because of inferiority feelings vis-a-vis Christianity, but there is no evidence that either the Turkish ambassador or the Sultan had seen the play, much less read it, when they first objected to it. The French government's surrender to this Turkish pressure was plausibly attributed by Martino to the contemporary political situation, for in 1889 the German Emperor William II was beginning his journey to Istanbul and the Near East, and France feared to do anything which might drive Turkey further into Germany's arms; the susceptibilities of France's numerous Muslim subjects in North Africa must also have been a consideration. Not till 1896 were excerpts from Mahomet presented to the public in a special arrangement for theatrical declamation. Since Bornier's time, no major European dramatist seems to have essayed a play on the life of the Prophet." - (Source: C. E. Bosworth, 'A Dramatisation of the Prophet Muhammad's Life: Henri de Bornier's "Mahomet",' Numen, Vol. 17, Fasc. 2 (Aug., 1970), p. 116)

---

May Allah(swt) bestow upon this Ummah unity and a righteous Caliphate.

[Scimitar]

There are ways to fight back. Without getting extreme. We have social media, we have wikipedia, we have YOUTUBE. And a lot more. Look, these propaganda platforms will seriously change the way people form opinion. It's already happening now. People trust social media more than the news. You yourselves trust what the forum members will give to you as their opinion from their expertise, than you would from some guys on the news network from CNN FOX.

So the way to fight back is use our brains. Get all those creative people into the projects that can make all the differencce. Youtube is powerful. More people will believe what is shown in the documentaries that users make than they would from watching commercial channel news bout the same subjects. Don't you see this pattern?

If we take advantage of this tool, and use it, we could just post the videos etc as responses and save ourselves, and a lot of other people the time and hassle of rebuttling every post.

It's effective, and can make a difference insha-Allah.

Scimi

[Pygoscelis]

I find myself in a bit of a torn position on this issue. On the one hand I don't want to encourage people to purposefully go out to offend each other, but whatever the original meaning of the cartoon or movie or whatever, it takes on a whole new meaning for me once people have decided to get violent to try to suppress it, and I find it important to NOT allow it to be suppressed. I find myself wanting to republish it, no matter what it is. I say we should NOT let people think that by getting violent they can stop us from free expression. So I go from seeing something as being in bad taste and something we should frown on and discourage, to seeing the same thing as something vitally important to display defiantly in the face of the threats of violence.

[glo]

And Glo, please do not pretend that your god is not being mocked every day for entertainment in UK just because christians have long ago cease to pay attention to such vile actions.

I am not pretending that my religion is not mocked every day here in the UK. Gee, it is mocked in my own house sometimes!

You are right, on the whole Christians in the UK are ignoring it.
In the context of this thread, that a very interesting point to make. Are Christians right to ignore it?
Would Christianity have a better standing in the UK, if followers demonstrated, burnt books etc?
By remaining silent, is our religion respected more? Or less?
(I'm especially interested to hear the thought from other Brits, atheists included! :))

Personally, I think that God can take it on the chin. God is not lessened by the ridicule and mocking he receives. (You have to remember that Christians believe that Jesus was very much mocked and ridiculed before his death ...)

Sometimes (and this may be controversial) I even think that we do well to listen to those mockers, because in their cynical and angry comments about of faiths, there may actually be hidden some truth! God speaks to the strangest of people!

[glo]

It's being done all over Europe - Denmark and Sweden are the latest. They'll be coming to a news-stand near you soon!
French privacy law allowed an injunction against them in France but I don't think they'll try for an injunction in all over publishing countries.

I enjoy your clear and rational explanations, observer. A trait I find in many of my atheist friends. :)
You seem quite knowledgeable on law. What is your background (if I may ask that question).

[FS123]

Just look at how effective the western jews have been with their intimidation etc that these days no one in the west dare to speak against or deny or mock the sufferings of ashkenazis.

It was not always like that, it changed when antisemitism moved to muslims.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...&dq=jews&hl=en

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...&dq=jews&hl=en

As brother Scim quoted from Quran that is the best thing to do. And prayers, prayers are powerful and bring people together and can move things in the right direction.

But there is also a logistical issue, there are 1.2billion muslims at least and expecting none will do anything stupid is ridiculous. Less than 0.9% muslims came out in the protests. There are around 50 muslims countries only few have seen violent protests.

Sikhs had violent protests too but it was never made as big issue as it is made against muslims. Second, sikh have smaller community still nobody expected every Sikh to behave calmly.
Sikh protests over play: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2004/dec/21/religion.arts

[Ramadhan]

I am not pretending that my religion is not mocked every day here in the UK. Gee, it is mocked in my own house sometimes!

You are right, on the whole Christians in the UK are ignoring it.
In the context of this thread, that a very interesting point to make. Are Christians right to ignore it?
Would Christianity have a better standing in the UK, if followers demonstrated, burnt books etc?
By remaining silent, is our religion respected more? Or less?
(I'm especially interested to hear the thought from other Brits, atheists included! :))

Personally, I think that God can take it on the chin. God is not lessened by the ridicule and mocking he receives. (You have to remember that Christians believe that Jesus was very much mocked and ridiculed before his death ...)

Sometimes (and this may be controversial) I even think that we do well to listen to those mockers, because in their cynical and angry comments about of faiths, there may actually be hidden some truth! God speaks to the strangest of people!

If Christians are okay and not insulted with their God being mocked for entertainment, I can respect that.

But you also should know that followers of different religion may not like it, so you need to also respect the fight back as long as it is done in just way, do you not agree?

By the way, I do not understand your point about God's reaction to being mocked. You and I both know that it means absolutely nothing to God (swt).

[Pygoscelis]

But you also should know that followers of different religion may not like it, so you need to also respect the fight back as long as it is done in just way, do you not agree?

Besides shaking your head and roll your eyes at them, reach out to westerners who are not them, mock them and marginalize them as much as possible, I don't really see what else you can do in response to them that wouldn't do more harm than good. Letters to the editor, peaceful multi-faith gatherings, perhaps a mass invitation to the local non-muslim communities to visit mosques (in a non-preachy way), maybe some response videos (especially those featuring non-muslims and showing how unfairly muslims are treated, etc) I can see making a difference. But boycotts of a nation's products (which includes far more innocent people from that nation than the handful that attacked Islam), screams against "the west", and goodness forbid, violence, will only be counter productive eh?

[marwen]

Personally, when I see some people again and again, using filthy means to reach their goals, I really doubt how much are they confident they are right and the others (muslims for ex) are wrong, if so why don't they try to convince others peacefully / with arguments and respectful discussion ?
I really don't think I wanna talk with these type of persons. I'd rather talk with other non-muslims who are not part of this offense.

[dusk]

But there is also a logistical issue, there are 1.2billion muslims at least and expecting none will do anything stupid is ridiculous. Less than 0.9% muslims came out in the protests. There are around 50 muslims countries only few have seen violent protests.

Definitely but the protests were promoted by i.e. the Muslim Brotherhood that Mursi belongs too. Violence was almost definitely to follow to a degree and in many states these new governments have been either negligent or incapable of putting the necessary crowd control measures in place. Especially on critical obvious targets like embassies.
When hooligans meet in Germany or Britain they do put the police in the streets were needed. Most governments in the past and present did so. Now there have been islamist parties voted into power and it all looked to the west as if they simply let this deliberately happen.
That is the criticism of western politics. Local groups spurred the riots and the some of the local governments did not act responsibly but rather how the critics of islamist parties predicted.

The fight for freedom of speech is not only direct against Muslims. The often quote thing with the Pope in a German newspaper was a big debate. The only reason the Christians won it was because the country is still ruled by Christian democrats. The majority seemed to be against the ban, found it ridiculous or didn't care.

[جوري]

Definitely but the protests were promoted by i.e. the Muslim Brotherhood that Mursi belongs too

lol.. guilt by proxy? I notice not one or two but three very heavily charged suggestions in one!
firstly when Mursi took office he said he was president to all Egyptians. Even if protests were promoted and there's no law against that even in the 'civilized west' then it doesn't mean that the intention for it is violence, and if it turns violent it doesn't mean that the whole condone or want that. Give it up.. once a crowd is moved there's no stopping it. What happened in the Rodney King riot or similar? Or are you suggesting the govt. uses force against its own people to appease western sensibilities

[glo]

If Christians are okay and not insulted with their God being mocked for entertainment, I can respect that.

But you also should know that followers of different religion may not like it, so you need to also respect the fight back as long as it is done in just way, do you not agree?

By the way, I do not understand your point about God's reaction to being mocked. You and I both know that it means absolutely nothing to God (swt).

My point was that ignoring (and not protesting) may actually be the most effective way of dealing with such troublemakers. If they have no attention and no media platform they will soon lose interest (indeed nobody would even know about them).

By protesting (especially in violent and angry ways), Muslims draw attention to the very thing they are offended by! And more and more people hear about it ...
So protesting adds to the spreading of this hateful information. :hmm:

Do you understand what I am trying to say?

My sincere apologies if my words have upset you. I understand how sensitive Muslim are feeling about this. And I feel deeply saddened that my Muslim friends are hurting.
But I still don't think that fighting back is the answer.

Salaam

[dusk]

But you also should know that followers of different religion may not like it, so you need to also respect the fight back as long as it is done in just way, do you not agree?

I agree.
Yet I would like the just way not to be defined as just by the offended but by objective agreed upon laws and peaceful culture.

In the general sense though I think it is more healthy in a multicultural society to learn how to ignore or laugh about some things. Anything else will eventually drive you crazy or grim or just not fit for a pluralistic society. Not everything is a personal offense or directed at you and shouldn't be taken as seriously. Some things are but if the Jews start a hunger strike until the last neo-nazi dies they will starve.

As Stephen Hughes:
O:I want to live in a democracy but I don't ever want to be offended.
S:Well, you are an i****.

Personally, when I see some people again and again, using filthy means to reach their goals, I really doubt how much are they confident they are right and the others (muslims for ex) are wrong, if so why don't they try to convince others peacefully / with arguments and respectful discussion ?

Do you think an evangelical west boro baptist Christian wants to argue with a homosexual. There is no point in debating fools.

[KAding]

They're doing it for sales pure and simple. Strike while the iron is hot.

I am sure this is partially true. But there is much more at play here as this also very much about ideology and beliefs. For many it is a matter of principle that they should be able to criticize/insult a religion. Just like it is a matter of principle to many Muslims that the Prophet may not be criticized/insulted.

Yes, there are many who use this situation for their own political or financial gain, there is a real ideological battle being fought here as well by parties on both sides. It is a real issue.

[Pygoscelis]

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire

[Ramadhan]

My point was that ignoring (and not protesting) may actually be the most effective way of dealing with such troublemakers. If they have no attention and no media platform they will soon lose interest (indeed nobody would even know about them).

You and I both know that this is not true.
I already gave my evidence on society mocking Jesus (p) for entertainment, and in contrast, society reluctance to mock the jews.

[Ramadhan]

I agree.
Some things are but if the Jews start a hunger strike until the last neo-nazi dies they will starve.
.

Fortunately the jews do not have to starve themselves as even even the slightest jibe against them can be persecuted under hate-laws or anti-defamation or whatever you call it. Contrast that to people who burn qur'an, spread hate and lies about Islam and muslims, and they are given federal protection and labeled "freedom of speech"

[Logikon]

The point every body has missed is the magazine cover.

It shows Muhammad and a Jew.

The cover is protesting that neither can be insulted!

Muslims should be pleased about this protest!

.

[FS123]

Definitely but the protests were promoted by i.e. the Muslim Brotherhood that Mursi belongs too. Violence was almost definitely to follow to a degree and in many states these new governments have been either negligent or incapable of putting the necessary crowd control measures in place. Especially on critical obvious targets like embassies.
When hooligans meet in Germany or Britain they do put the police in the streets were needed. Most governments in the past and present did so. Now there have been islamist parties voted into power and it all looked to the west as if they simply let this deliberately happen.
That is the criticism of western politics. Local groups spurred the riots and the some of the local governments did not act responsibly but rather how the critics of islamist parties predicted.

Morsi spoke out against the violence and police did try to stop the rioting http://inagist.com/all/246605382947061760/ Photos are there. Egypt is large population and protesters around 3000 is very small.

[Ramadhan]

Morsi spoke out against the violence and police did try to stop the rioting http://inagist.com/all/246605382947061760/ Photos are there. Egypt is large population and protesters around 3000 is very small.

I don't think non-muslims who live in the west are interested in evidence or in anything that contradict their views formed by their government and the media.

[Abdul Rafay]

I don't know why they love provoking us. Some sort of envy perhaps?

[GuestFellow]

I don't know why they love provoking us. Some sort of envy perhaps?

Because they know some Muslims will get angry and have a riot. Then this will reinforce typical stereotypes about angry Muslims. Also it helps to spread these images when Muslims react.

Then some of these Muslims that throw a riot complain about why non-Muslims see them as violent. DUH! HELLO? Are you that stupid? :/

[Pygoscelis]

Ya... the shout of "I WILL KILL ANYONE WHO SAYS I AM VIOLENT" just kind of refutes itself eh?

[sister herb]

Peace with you and thanks for laughing to me from your answer.

;D

[Taabuu]

if you defend your religion, they will call you terrorist or radical, if you let them keep mocking your religion they will never hesitate to cross the red line...

I hope they drop nuke on me, really...

Well said!!!!!