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جوري
10-03-2012, 01:19 PM
The writer, producer and distributor of the film, Nakoula Basseley Nakoula, is an Egyptian-born Coptic Christian based in the U.S. who originally identified himself as an Israeli-Jew, using the pseudonym "Sam Bacile," and said that he collected $5 million from Jewish friends to fund the movie. The alleged Bacile told the Wall Street Journal that he made ​​the film to expose "Islam as a hateful religion" and also described Islam as a "cancer." It is quite clear that not just Nakoula deliberately intended to stoke up hate against Muslims but by Identifying himself as an Israeli Jew, was Determined to exploit existing divisions between Muslims and Jews.
On 16 October 1946, Julius Streicher was Hanged by an International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg after being convicted for crimes against humanity. Streicher was not a member of the Nazi military and did not take part in the planning of the Holocaust or the invasion of any country. He was the publisher of a tabloid newspaper, Der Stürmer, which for 22 years denounced Jews in the most crude, vicious, and vivid ways. Despite its Increasing popularity, the newspaper was even condemned by many Nazi leaders at the time and Streicher was brought before the German courts on several occasions.

Despite Der Stürmer not being an official arm of the Nazi government, Streicher's pivotal role in inciting Loathing and Hatred of Jews was significant enough to include Considered Major War Criminals before him in the indictment of the International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg. In essence, the prosecutors took the line that Streicher's incendiary speeches and articles made ​​him an accessory to murder, and therefor as Culpable as those who actually ordered the mass extermination of the Jews.

The world said, "Never Again." Never Again to genocide, Never Again, to ethnic cleansing, concentration camps to Never Again, Never Again to the systematic demonization of the "other" which inevitably led to the atrocities of the Holocaust. Yet, almost 90 years after it was first published Der Stürmer, the world Appears to be suffering from a bout of collective amnesia. In recent years, the rising tide of anti-Muslim hysteria has drowned out all voices of reason and reminders from history. Camouflaged in the rhetoric of the anti-terror, counter-extremism, and freedom of speech, the rank Hatred and Loathing of Muslims and Islam has become the acceptable face of racism today, as exemplified by the recent condemnations of the demonstrations in the Muslim world against the virulently inflammatory and Islamophobic film, The Innocence of Muslims.

The film, produced by an Egyptian Coptic Christian Nakoula Basseley Nakoula, Islamophobic and is graphically portrays the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as a fool, a philanderer, a womanizer, a homosexual, a child abuser and a religious fake (nastaghfir-allah). His followers are portrayed in the film as savage killers hungry for wealth and bent on killing women and children. The film draughty in mass demonstrations throughout the Muslim world and attacks on diplomatic missions in several countries resulting in several deaths. Reminiscent of the Rushdie fatwa over two decades ago, a Pakistani minister placed a $ 100,000 bounty on Nakoula's head, going as far as to publicly request assistance from the Taliban and al-Qaeda to kill him.

Critics of the demonstrations present themselves as the proponents of absolute free speech and argue that Muslims should not be offended by criticism of their religion. One of their more crass arguments is that the production is so shoddy and substandard Themselves above that Muslims should carry it. This belittles the actual sentiment behind the Insults which should be judged according the to their content and the intention of the offender and not the insult may or may not be articulate how. In fact, from its first issue, Der Stürmer was also directed to that common denominator Made Easy Hitler thought that the proper target of propaganda. Heinz Preiss, a young scholar who attached himself to Streicher after 1933, becoming his court historian, accurately described Streicher's intent,

Since he wanted to capture the masses, he had to write in a way that the masses could understand, in a style that was simple and easy to comprehend. He had recognized that the way to achieve the greatest effect on an audience was through simple sentences. Writing had to adopt the style of speaking if it were to have a similar effect. Streicher wrote in the Stürmer ... The worker who talked the way he came home late at night from the factory was neither willing nor able to read intellectual treatises. He was, however, willing to read What interested him and what he could not understand. Streicher therefor took the content from the daily life and the style from the speech. He gave plenty of sunshine the Stürmer its style, a style which many intellectuals could not understand, but which was nothing but the product of his own Fundamentally Gained experience over the years.

As with the demonization of Muslims today, Streicher Regularly published cartoons and stories about Jewish involvement in cases of alleged sexual criminality, murder and intolerance endlessly repeated with the same allegations. Innocence of Muslims must be seen in this context - What has become the latest in a regular and routine in the media attack on Muslims, Islam and the Prophet of Islam (pbuh), designed not to stimulate intellectual debate and understanding but simply to Incite Hatred against the followers of Islam. From Rushdie's Satanic Verses, to the Danish cartoons to the anti-Muslim Qur'an burnings and the daily sensationalist headlines and op-eds, the freedom being sought is not one to criticize or to express oneself but one to insult and abuse.

The writer, producer and distributor of the film, Nakoula Basseley Nakoula, is an Egyptian-born Coptic Christian based in the U.S. who originally identified himself as an Israeli-Jew, using the pseudonym "Sam Bacile," and said that he collected $5 million from Jewish friends to fund the movie. The alleged Bacile told the Wall Street Journal that he made ​​the film to expose "Islam as a hateful religion" and also described Islam as a "cancer." It is quite clear that not just Nakoula deliberately intended to stoke up hate against Muslims but by Identifying himself as an Israeli Jew, was Determined to exploit existing divisions between Muslims and Jews.

It is not Muslim "intolerance" that the world should be condemning today but Western tolerance of those who only seek to abuse, insult and demonise and thereby foster the climate which facilitates genocide. The reaction from the Muslim world is a reasonable and understandable one. In Retrospect, nobody would dare criticize rioted against the Jewish communities in the 1930s publications such as Der Stürmer if they had the ultimate effect was that it would have prevented the Holocaust, even if those riots led to the loss of scores of innocent lives. The current reaction stems from a lack of confidence in the leadership of the Muslim world against such abuse to take any meaningful action, leaving it to the mob to seek vigilante justice in whatever form it can. In the West, the Authorities and the courts will protect what they hold to be sacred from abuse through similar injunctions and prosecutions and so the public anger and feeling is appeased.

A few examples will suffice. In the same week as the Muslims have been condemned for not tolerating free speech, Azhar Ahmed, a Muslim teenager in Britain was convicted of sending a "grossly offensive communication" after posting a message on his Facebook page that "all soldiers should die and go to hell. "He Sentencing awaits you for the comments which the judge described as" derogatory, disrespectful and inflammatory. "Meanwhile in France, a French court banned from re-publishing or distributing photographs Closer magazine in France of the Duchess of Cambridge, Princess Kate, topless sunbathing. The injunction was granted at the same time that another French magazine Charlie Hebdo published a new series of cartoons mocking the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) for no other reason than to insult and offend Muslims.

When Muslims complained, they were told that freedom of expression was a fundamental right. In September 2011, the British fashion designer John Galliano was convicted for making "public Insults based on origin, religious affiliation, race or ethnicity" after making anti-Semitic comments in public. On the same note, Holocaust denial remains a crime in several European countries. In September 2010, the Advertising Standards Agency in the UK ice cream company banned from using an advert displaying a pregnant moment's eating ice cream in a church, together with the strap line "immaculately conceived." The ASA said that the advert "was not likely to be seen as a distortion and mockery of the beliefs of Roman Catholics "and" not likely to cause serious offense to readers, particularly those who practiced the Roman Catholic faith. "The ASA banned another advert for the same company (Antonio Federici) in July 2009 Showed that a priest and a nun appearing as if they were about to kiss.

The War on Terror has seen several Muslims in the UK and U.S., such as the Ahmed Faraz and Tarek Mehanna, sentenced to lengthy spells in the maximum Security Prisons for no greater offences than publishing books and articles critical of Western foreign policy and promoting the political and military aspects of Islam. No freedom of expression for these young Muslims.

In contrast, there is no such procedure in the Muslim world or to protect the sensitivities of Muslims in the Western world, thereby leading to the type of angry demonstrations that we are witnessing. One can predict that were no systems in place to address public anger in the West about the public holds Insults to sacred things, there would be similar large scale demonstrations, and These would not be limited to elements of the far right. Muslims are denied such protection. They are insulted and abused, mocked and ridiculed, ostracized and told to get over it and demonised. Until such time as the Governments of the world are prepared to offer similar protection to Muslims as it does to others, they should not expect such angry reaction from the masses. "Never Again" should not be hollow rhetoric but state policy, and for all communities.


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جوري
10-03-2012, 01:26 PM
This is a must read for ALL Muslims pls. Don't be armed with just sentiments- be armed with facts!
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IbnAbdulHakim
10-03-2012, 02:10 PM
reading articles like this makes me feel ashamed that i live in the west and makes me feel like a coward for not up and leaving.
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جوري
10-03-2012, 02:14 PM
It is easier to up and leave than walk through the fire akhi.. People back home are clueless- they still perceive this part of the world through their marketing schemes. As 'free and just' & It is neither- It's your job to highlight that to enlighten and be enlightened!
but I agree with you, I feel such disgust toward their societies and the gap widens with each passing day!
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IbnAbdulHakim
10-03-2012, 02:26 PM
I wouldnt mind living here if I felt like I would be making a difference.

I have two murtads (ex muslims) as colleagues at work. I have discussed at length the concept of islam and God with them all the whilst listening to them, reiterating what they have said back to them to show them that I do understand what they say, I hold no flaw in understanding their theology and then I try to explain mine but its as though I'm hitting concrete.

one of them actually showed me an object and said no matter what angle we look at this object, its still the same object implying that each religion is looking at the same God.

I attempting to explain God only created one way in his understanding of his creation and in his infinite knowledge in which he can be reached as all the other ways are harmful to us. but its like all intelligence had been robbed from him. his eyes glazed, his head dazed and he stared back uncomprehending. and this colleague is a man who if anyone speaks to him would consider him very intelligent, very intuitive, clever etc etc
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جوري
10-03-2012, 02:34 PM
I can't tell you what is the best course to take, but for every two murtads ten new seasoned Muslims enter into the religion. We really don't want idiots at this stage when we're about to revive the ummah so you just have to move on to the next best thing.
Your comment here for some reason reminds me of Gamal Abd'Alnaser in that 56 war with Israel when he was so demoralized he decided to close down plane factories and put some brilliant scientists out of work and they ended up moving to places like India and Germany.. We were in partnership with India we make the motors and they make fuselage. At any rate it is one of the many reasons he was an idiot though people seem to revere him, what I am trying to say is just because you meet with a failure doesn't mean you should give up.. Surely Allah swt will not make your efforts nor your intentions go to waste!

:w:
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dusk
10-03-2012, 10:32 PM
This article ignores one thing. Der Stürmer was actually read by a variety of people. It had influence. It did change opinion.
The innocence of Muslims nobody really cared about except Muslims themselves and a handful of christian fundamentalists. The non acceptance of protests has more to do with the blowing it out of proportion part than anything else, as it is not a movie that was released in nation wide cinema with millions of viewers, or on a big news channel with many viewers. If the New York Times or significant big outlet starts printing such propaganda one may have a case. The way it was the only thing that shape public opinion in the west was the news reports about the protests themselves.
An opportunistic french tabloid at least has some influence but they don't have intentions like Streicher either, they just don't care about anybody's feelings an ride the wave of opportunity. The Danish cartoons had practically no reach without huge protests.
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
I attempting to explain God only created one way in his understanding of his creation and in his infinite knowledge in which he can be reached as all the other ways are harmful to us. but its like all intelligence had been robbed from him. his eyes glazed, his head dazed and he stared back uncomprehending. and this colleague is a man who if anyone speaks to him would consider him very intelligent, very intuitive, clever etc etc
If you actually want to understand why you cannot get through to some people with your arguments, you should try some philosophical debate forums.
Most of the time people take certain axioms for granted without even knowing them and bring about arguments that make perfect sense and seem logical and reasonable for them but not at all for somebody else who does not accept those same axioms and more importantly doesn't know about them either as they are never explicitly expressed.
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جوري
10-03-2012, 10:35 PM
Originally Posted by dusk
This article ignores one thing. Der Stürmer was actually read by a variety of people. It had influence. It did change opinion.
The innocence of Muslims nobody really cared about except Muslims themselves and a handful of christian fundamentalists. The non acceptance of protests has more to do with the blowing it out of proportion part than anything else, as it is not a movie that was released in nation wide cinema with millions of viewers, or on a big news channel with many viewers. If the New York Times or significant big outlet starts printing such propaganda one may have a case. The way it was the only thing that shape public opinion in the west was the news reports about the protests themselves.
An opportunistic french tabloid at least has some influence but they don't have intentions like Streicher either, they just don't care about anybody's feelings an ride the wave of opportunity. The Danish cartoons had practically no reach without huge protests.
You know this because you personally surveyed the entire western hemisphere? There are no wars and/or aggressions currently carried out by the west against Muslim majority nations? There are no drones? no soldiers urinating on dead bodies, torching them in the night, collecting their body parts? And Muslims living in the west aren't abused? That's very amusing!
Talk about linear thinking!

best,
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جوري
10-03-2012, 10:57 PM
And what of him:
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
In the same week as the Muslims have been condemned for not tolerating free speech, Azhar Ahmed, a Muslim teenager in Britain was convicted of sending a "grossly offensive communication" after posting a message on his Facebook page that "all soldiers should die and go to hell. "He Sentencing awaits you for the comments which the judge described as" derogatory, disrespectful and inflammatory. "Meanwhile in France, a French court banned from re-publishing or distributing photographs Closer magazine in France of the Duchess of Cambridge, Princess Kate, topless sunbathing. The injunction was granted at the same time that another French magazine Charlie Hebdo published a new series of cartoons mocking the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) for no other reason than to insult and offend Muslims.
or them:


Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
several Muslims in the UK and U.S., such as the Ahmed Faraz and Tarek Mehanna, sentenced to lengthy spells in the maximum Security Prisons for no greater offences than publishing books and articles critical of Western foreign policy and promoting the political and military aspects of Islam. No freedom of expression for these young Muslims.
The teenage boy with facebook was influential, but the movie maker even with his 5 million dollar funding isn't?
we call this hypocrisy!...


Originally Posted by dusk
who does not accept those same axioms
For someone who speaks of evidentiary truths and facts- You tighten and widen your convictions based on whimsey not logic, nothing of what you write follows from the premise- you're all over the place along with the two other trolls-- how about you sit down and think a little or do some research before you write at least read the entire article before commenting so your sins and intentions don't unravel all at once!

best,
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IbnAbdulHakim
10-04-2012, 07:24 AM
Originally Posted by dusk
This article ignores one thing. Der Stürmer was actually read by a variety of people. It had influence. It did change opinion.
The innocence of Muslims nobody really cared about except Muslims themselves and a handful of christian fundamentalists. The non acceptance of protests has more to do with the blowing it out of proportion part than anything else, as it is not a movie that was released in nation wide cinema with millions of viewers, or on a big news channel with many viewers. If the New York Times or significant big outlet starts printing such propaganda one may have a case. The way it was the only thing that shape public opinion in the west was the news reports about the protests themselves.
An opportunistic french tabloid at least has some influence but they don't have intentions like Streicher either, they just don't care about anybody's feelings an ride the wave of opportunity. The Danish cartoons had practically no reach without huge protests.
If you actually want to understand why you cannot get through to some people with your arguments, you should try some philosophical debate forums.
Most of the time people take certain axioms for granted without even knowing them and bring about arguments that make perfect sense and seem logical and reasonable for them but not at all for somebody else who does not accept those same axioms and more importantly doesn't know about them either as they are never explicitly expressed.
I may not have gone to the forums but I can guarantee I have had many many philosophical debates with atheists/agnostics.

and the unfortunate soul I spoke with accepted that I understand what he meant and grasped his concept. But I couldnt say the same about him grasping mine.
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Futuwwa
10-04-2012, 04:07 PM
The only thing the story recounted in the OP implies is that Julius Streicher was wrongfully sentenced to death.
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جوري
10-04-2012, 04:53 PM
You wanna clue us in as to the meaning of your unintelligible comment?
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Futuwwa
10-06-2012, 06:12 PM
The entire argumentation in the OP relies on the presumption that the sentencing of Julius Streicher was correct. And argues that if his actions can be considered criminal, those of Nakoula would also be. Yet, the entire argument hinges on that "if".
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جوري
10-06-2012, 06:15 PM
That's not what 'the entire argument' rests on- amongst other things it is about the nuances of 'freedom of speech' where and where it isn't applicable modern times not just at times when folks were persecuted for it--why don't you do us all a favor and read the article in its entirety before commenting? and generally approach everything after having dissected all its parts and having looked at all the variables.

best,
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