If it is on the net it is there forever

[جوري]

Amanda Todd, a Vancouver-area teenager who posted a story to YouTube last month about being cyber-bullied, was found dead Wednesday night in Coquitlam, Canada. Authorities believe she committed suicide.
Amanda's video tells a heart-wrenching story of the bullying she was subjected to -- both online and off. "In 7th grade," she begins, sharing her message on cue cards, "I would go with friends on webcam [to] meet and talk to new people." At one point, a stranger flattered her into flashing the camera.
One year later, a man contacted her on Facebook, threatening to send around the picture of her topless "if [she] don't put on a show." Terrifyingly, the stranger knew everything about her: her address, school, friends, relatives, and the names of her family members. Soon, her naked photo had been forwarded "to everyone."
Amanda developed anxiety, depression, and anxiety disorders, she says in the video, followed by a path into drugs and alcohol.
She changed schools and found a new group of friends in an effort to leave behind the bullies. Then the man created a Facebook profile, using her uncensored photo as his profile picture. "Cried every night, lost all my friends and respect people had for me... again... then nobody liked me," she wrote in the video.






Soon after, the bullying started again and she began to cut herself. Amanda moved to yet another school, where, after a boy began flirting with her, a troupe of girls from her first school came and beat her up. "Kids filmed it," she writes. "I was all alone and left on the ground."

"Teachers ran over but I just went and layed in a ditch and my dad found me." When she went home with her dad, she drank bleach in an attempt to kill herself, but was saved after a rushed trip to the hospital.
Amanda's bullying continued despite moving to a new city. Anti-depressants and counseling did little to combat the severe depression. The description on her YouTube video reads:
I'm struggling to stay in this world, because everything just touches me so deeply. I'm not doing this for attention. I'm doing this to be an inspiration and to show that I can be strong. I did things to myself to make pain go away, because I'd rather hurt myself then someone else. Haters are haters but please don't hate, although im sure I'll get them. I hope I can show you guys that everyone has a story, and everyones future will be bright one day, you just gotta pull through. I'm still here aren't I?



"It is a very sad case," Paul McNaughton, a principal at CABE, the high school she'd moved to in Coquitlam, told the Vancouver Sun. "I can tell you we feel we tried everything we could to help her when she came to us."

"She was quite connected here. The staff and the students here are very much impacted. She had some very strong ties in the school and to staff in the school."
A Facebook page titled Rest In Paradise Amanda Michelle Todd had nearly 11,000 likes at the time of this writing. The wall features countless messages of condolence.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...#slide=1637674

[جوري]

Probably the same people who bullied her are the ones holding an all night vigil and walking in her funeral.

I think far tougher laws should be made with the internet right now it is a free for all enabling stalkers and creeps but not offering any protection even if you really want it. You ask for your info. to be removed from one site another ten pop up with it. And who would search for you anyway unless you had a professional account except for sinister reasons? They say it is public record and the dozy and moronic are actually happy with their 'fifteen minutes' of perpetual fame until it comes to bite them in the tush.
It is happened, it is sad but there's a reason people should keep their clothes on and not get drunk!

:w:

[CosmicPathos]

nah, malala's story is more heart wrenching, cuz she did not kill herself. She was brave, unlike Amanda Todd who took her own life, that poor little weakling.

*sarcasm in case someone misses it.*

[Muezzin]

If remove anonymity from the Internet, you can reduce trollish behaviour.

I say 'reduce' because some people are just nasty.

This particular story is tragic, and I can't imagine the pain her family and friends are feeling.

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[جوري]

I don't think we need less anonymity unfortunately the victims are always exposed - I think people need to take control of their so-called public records not have google give you the run around if you want your address/phone work age drivers license and everything in between on google removed! You don't have to disrobe before a webcam to feel naked to people who can and will prey on your vulnerbilities - muezzin you're a lawyer if I am correct how can people have a class action suit against google and the likes? Whenever I call them trying to remove my so called public record they say it's third party and out of their hands.
It's sickening honestly just nauseating to know that anyone can have access to your life your ancestors your job your speeding tickets. I don't understand how's this a good thing?

I think that poor girl should have been home schooled and not given any access to the web - it's the mother of all evil a modern day devil!

[crimsontide06]

Curious, would this girl...go to heaven? 15...too young to know what she is doing or be held responsible like an adult. This story is so sad :cry:

[Rhubarb Tart]

nah, malala's story is more heart wrenching, cuz she did not kill herself. She was brave, unlike Amanda Todd who took her own life, that poor little weakling.

*sarcasm in case someone misses it.*

I hate to break to you, if this girl was a Muslim. She would bought herself one way ticket to hell. Suicide is haram and she made the decision to kill herself, whereas malala didn't. Malala is a muslim. Guess who your dua would help the most? If you have problem with american policies and their media, say so and keep malala out of it. Out of respect for her family, keep her name out of topics that don't concern her. Have some respect for your fellow Muslim unless you can wholeheartedly prove she wasn't.

Best regards,

[Rhubarb Tart]

Curious, would this girl...go to heaven? 15...too young to know what she is doing or be held responsible like an adult. This story is so sad :cry:

In Islam,once someone starts their puberty or reach age 15 they are adults. I think it is age 15 but research it. The story is sad, though.

[CosmicPathos]

I hate to break to you, if this girl was a Muslim. She would bought herself one way ticket to hell. Suicide is haram and she made the decision to kill herself, whereas malala didn't. Malala is a muslim. Guess who your dua would help the most? If you have problem with american policies and their media, say so and keep malala out of it. Out of respect for her family, keep her name out of topics that don't concern her. Have some respect for your fellow Muslim unless you can wholeheartedly prove she wasn't.

Best regards,

I dont know if Malala was a Muslim or not, I am skeptical, after all she loved Obama, the guy who murdered many Muslims. Maybe she was, maybe she was not, I just dont know. Why does that matter though?

I empathize with her by virtue of bond of being a Homo sapien.

[CosmicPathos]

In Islam,once someone starts their puberty or reach age 15 they are adults. I think it is age 15 but research it. The story is sad, though.

When someone is depressed, they are not capable of making rational decisions. Suicide is haraam if done by a sane individual. Depressed ppl are not sane.

[Rhubarb Tart]

When someone is depressed, they are not capable of making rational decisions. Suicide is haraam if done by a sane individual. Depressed ppl are not sane.

No where in this article does it say she was suffering from psychosis. So unless she was psychotic, feeling extreme sadness does not equate with psychosis. BTW I do recognise some depressed people do become psychotic. But it can't be a coincident that she took her own life when she tried all options.

And if we were to use your logic, I can think tons of criminals that would freed because they were depressed.

[Rhubarb Tart]

I dont know if Malala was a Muslim or not, I am skeptical, after all she loved Obama, the guy who murdered many Muslims. Maybe she was, maybe she was not, I just dont know. Why does that matter though?

I empathize with her by virtue of bond of being a Homo sapien.

Why does someone being a Muslim matters? Why are we told to pray for them when we hear of their death? Why do care about Muslims killed by Obama? To be honest, I don't give a flying donkeys about your suspicion. I said wholeheartedly for a reason. And do you have proof she wasn't?

[CosmicPathos]

To be honest, I don't give a flying donkeys about your suspicion.

Neither do I about yours. huh.

[CosmicPathos]

No where in this article does it say she was suffering from psychosis. So unless she was psychotic, feeling extreme sadness does not equate with psychosis. BTW I do recognise some depressed people do become psychotic. But it can't be a coincident that she took her own life when she tried all options.

And if we were to use your logic, I can think tons of criminals that would freed because they were depressed.

Depression is a spectrum of diseases. Depression is not JUST feeling of extreme sadness. It requires whole bunch of criteria (M SIGCAPS) to be fulfilled according to DSM IV. You need to review your psychiatry.

[Rhubarb Tart]

Depression is a spectrum of diseases. Depression is not JUST feeling of extreme sadness. It requires whole bunch of criteria (M SIGCAPS) to be fulfilled according to DSM IV. You need to review your psychiatry.

DSM also says paedophilia is a disease. Do we suddenly stop punishing them? Just because someone is suffering from depression, does not mean they can't distinguish what is right or wrong or the consequences of their action. Like I said coincidence she took her life after she explored all option. With depression, people can fulfill those criteria and still rationalise their actions. So, if she killed herself during a manic stage like taking an overdose (like those suffering bipolar) or during visual, auditory hallucinations, your argument is valid.

I don't need review this because it is not my profession but you however....

Bear in mind, there are severely depressed people sitting a cell for their actions, how can a system convict them if they can't rationalise their actions or thoughts?

[CosmicPathos]

I don't need review this because it is not my profession but you however....

I am excellent at psychiatry, allhamdulillah. Thanks but no thanks.

I dont understand comparison with pedophilia? Pedophilia is crime against innocent children, while suicide is crime against oneself. How can you compare the two? :s

And how exactly would you punish depressed ppl? You mentioned pedophilia punishment, how do you intend to punish depressed ppl?

[Rhubarb Tart]

I am excellent at psychiatry, allhamdulillah. Thanks but no thanks.

I dont understand comparison with pedophilia? Pedophilia is crime against innocent children, while suicide is crime against oneself. How can you compare the two? :s

And how exactly would you punish depressed ppl? You mentioned pedophilia punishment, how do you intend to punish depressed ppl?

pedophilia is attraction to children and it is also a disease according to psychiatry. One doesn't have to commit a crime towards children to fit into criteria.

It is about accountability. A paedophile will be held responsible if he turn his/her attraction into action.

So if we were use for your logic most paedophiles wouldn't be held responsible because they suffer from a disease. Otherwise, How can you sit here and tell me this girl wouldn't held responsible for planned suicide (unless she suffered from psychosis).

[CosmicPathos]

So if we were use for your logic most paedophiles wouldn't be held responsible because they suffer from a disease. Otherwise, How can you sit here and tell me this girl wouldn't held responsible for planned suicide (unless she suffered from psychosis).

Yea as long as pedos dont commit a crime, they cannot and should not be punishable. If Allah does not record a sin till we commit it, who the heck are we to punish someone's desires? Heck, even sometimes I get the desire to die or to end it all, should I be punished for that? I know of no human who at one point in life has not thought about committing suicide.

Pedophiles indeed should be condemned for committing a crime but at the same time we should keep in mind they are suffering from mental illnesses and we should not hate them. Being a murderer, a pedo, or a homo does not make anyone a kaafir, even though they are grievous sins.

Moreover, pedo will be held responsible by the court. Who will hold a depressed person responsible? :S

Your analogy is really flawed.

[glo]

I am really sorry to hear this story. Bullying is such a nasty and despicable thing and much more needs to be done to educate and prepare children (and adults) in how to avoid it and how to deal with it.

And the freedom with which images can be taken and used on the Internet is shocking! I am not sure that it can be regulated - so again, education is important on how to keep yourself as safe as possible.

A little sad about comments how the suffering and experience of one individual is worse that than on another. How can we possibly know? God alone knows.

I am also not really interested in any theological debate about Amanda's suicide. I believe in a merciful God, who would certainly know and understand the suffering she has gone through ...

How judgmental we like to be at times! imsad


I pray that Amanda Todd rests with God and that he has mercy on her.

[Muezzin]

I don't think we need less anonymity unfortunately the victims are always exposed - I think people need to take control of their so-called public records not have google give you the run around if you want your address/phone work age drivers license and everything in between on google removed!

Under British law at least, none of this sort of information is deemed to be sensitive in nature (which is insane by the way). Medical records and so on are afforded much greater protection.

You don't have to disrobe before a webcam to feel naked to people who can and will prey on your vulnerbilities - muezzin you're a lawyer if I am correct how can people have a class action suit against google and the likes? Whenever I call them trying to remove my so called public record they say it's third party and out of their hands.

I don't suppose they're at liberty to disclose the names of those third parties so you can contact them directly.

It's sickening honestly just nauseating to know that anyone can have access to your life your ancestors your job your speeding tickets. I don't understand how's this a good thing?

Think of how much any government knows about its citizens. All births are registered. All deaths are registered. There are records of each person's education, grades. Any criminal records. Credit history. Your passport contains details of which countries you visited and when.

The record-keeping itself isn't necessarily a bad thing, but rather the scope for its abuse.

Think of all the information people volunteer on social networking sites. When you consider that Facebook for example makes most of its money from companies who basically use the site as a tool to measure demography for their products, I think a lot of people would think twice before updating their profiles.

I think that poor girl should have been home schooled and not given any access to the web - it's the mother of all evil a modern day devil!

As Sartre said: 'Hell is other people'.

[جوري]

I don't suppose they're at liberty to disclose the names of those third parties so you can contact them directly.

If you google yourself you'll find all sorts of odd companies like 'my life' or 'find people' etc. that have all your information, if you contact them to remove they'll tell you that they attained this information because it is public records, believe me they do nothing but give you the run around. Any company you do business with will sell your information to other third parties, I think that should be made illegal.
It is like someone taking your organs without your consent, unless you specify you don't want them taken but by then you're in no shape to do anything about it!

The record-keeping itself isn't necessarily a bad thing, but rather the scope for its abuse.

Everything from stalkers to identity thieves, my friend had someone steal her identity opened credit cards in her name bought like crazy- all the things you deny yourself they do in your name and yet those who are so keen to tell you if you have nothing to hide then you shouldn't worry, are doing nothing to protect your rights!

This poor girl is one extreme case I don't think she was equipped to handle what came her way but really the police etc. aren't gonna help you any. They're there to simply create terrorists out of ordinary citizens while letting outlaws free to have at you!

As Sartre said: 'Hell is other people'.

I always hated that book and the lidless people in it..

:w:

[Ramadan90]

We have NO IDEA how her life was, so we should not judge and say that she was weak because she killed herself. And the girl is extremly young and doesnt probably know herself. It is really sad that young people are doing this to eachother. Some kids can be really evil...

[جوري]

Curious, would this girl...go to heaven? 15...too young to know what she is doing or be held responsible like an adult. This story is so sad :cry:

In Islam,once someone starts their puberty or reach age 15 they are adults. I think it is age 15 but research it. The story is sad, though.

whoaaaaaaa.. I had no idea there was a whole page # 1 when I checked earlier..
at any rate.. the age of reason per Islam is 40!
It doesn't mean that they're not held responsible for choices made earlier but at any rate it is a matter up to Allah swt..

Qaf [50:29]

[RECITE]

[top] [next match]

Ma yubaddalu alqawlu ladayya wama ana bithallamin lilAAabeedi

50:29 "The Word changes not before Me, and I do not the least injustice to My Servants."

She will not meet with injustice with Allah swt but we can't speculate of it. It is however something that we should learn from and in fact something that shouldn't be repeated!
But they're not big on preventative measures in the west. They love to create it and then talk about with their vigils and their alligator tears which arrive after the fact of the matter but never a root cause analysis for every evil they create there are no precautions to curb it.

I remember a couple of years ago two of my classmates died by a drunk driver, and they weren't any regular two people, but hard working medical doctors just starting out, newly engaged and meeting each other's family over the weekend when the moron killed them, he of course didn't die and got no time at all for involuntary man slaughter and yes they can go on drinking because why would they prohibit it when you can kill others and live as a drunk it is good for the bottom line!

[Muezzin]

If you google yourself you'll find all sorts of odd companies like 'my life' or 'find people' etc. that have all your information, if you contact them to remove they'll tell you that they attained this information because it is public records, believe me they do nothing but give you the run around. Any company you do business with will sell your information to other third parties, I think that should be made illegal.
It is like someone taking your organs without your consent, unless you specify you don't want them taken but by then you're in no shape to do anything about it!

I agree with you. The law is desperately in need of reform in this area.

Everything from stalkers to identity thieves, my friend had someone steal her identity opened credit cards in her name bought like crazy- all the things you deny yourself they do in your name and yet those who are so keen to tell you if you have nothing to hide then you shouldn't worry, are doing nothing to protect your rights!

I'm sorry to hear that your friend was a victim of identity theft.

The sad thing is, it is not in these parties' interest to protect our rights.

The worse thing is, there will probably not be any drastic change for at least a decade. Most of the people in power probably don't use the Internet, social networking etc as much as their, say, 10 year old (or even 20 year old) offspring, so they simply will not understand the gravity of the situation. The Internet is really like the Wild West in that regard. If I had a child, I would certainly not want him or her to use the Internet without supervision - or at least I would tell him or her how to use the thing correctly, and what kind of rubbish to avoid.

This poor girl is one extreme case I don't think she was equipped to handle what came her way but really the police etc. aren't gonna help you any. They're there to simply create terrorists out of ordinary citizens while letting outlaws free to have at you!

The police will probably tell you to be careful of what you divulge on the Internet.

Then again, I'm pretty sure cyber-stalking is covered under some recent UK legislation. I don't know about the US.

There is a debate going on about 'The Right to Be Forgotten', but from my understanding that's more about removing details from social networking sites than stopping unregulated web companies disseminating your name and address to all and sundry.

[جوري]

Then again, I'm pretty sure cyber-stalking is covered under some recent UK legislation. I don't know about the US.

No such luck here however there was a huge case against a guy who was taping his neighbor's wife and kids, they have to have something bad happen before they act, and even if they confiscated the videos and gave him prison time, once a video or picture is out there somewhere it is there for life. So one had better think twice about the photos they take. Is it any wonder they want niqabis to disrobe?
I am not a part of any social network I so despise the idea and yet there's information about me on the web that I don't want to be there and for $3.00 you can get even more info like my phone number and email. I frankly think that's disgusting.
I have tape on my laptop's camera but I am pretty sure if the govt. wanted to spy on my home activities with video they'll find a way to do it.

The right to be forgotten sounds awesome doesn't it. Shouldn't a wo/man be entitled to their sense of self and property without every tom, dick and harry peaking in. Problem is not enough people are angry. I see them at the airport going through these machines like cattle. Don't give a fig who touches them where or who scans them. Is this normal? Every time I go through an airport where they demand that I put up a fight, end result is I get taken to a private room anyway with two butchy females feeling me everywhere but I refuse this cattle branding that happens otherwise.
What is wrong with the world, why are people so desensitized? Do they really believe that they're nothing more than an animal with communication abilities?