Chemtrails with joesixpack

[joesixpack]

Please don't post more videos, just answer these questions.

Are you suggesting that aircraft engine exhaust does not leave a trail on cold air?

Do you understand what the exhaust from aircraft engines is made up of?

Do you understand the physics of cloud formation?

I just want short answers so I can see what your level of physics knowledge is.

Let me be very clear. I have little to no trust of the government, but I do have some knowledge of science. I know that the US military had experimented on with spraying of chemicals in the past. Google "Zinc Cadmium Sulfide St. Louis study" and you'll find out about a real crime. I know that aircraft are used for spraying insecticides on crops. I'm aware of "Cloud Seeding". I am also familiar with the concerns which climate scientists have raised over changes in cloud patterns caused by CONtrails from increased air traffic. None of these is the same as the blanket conspiracy known as "chemtrails".

[YusufNoor]

Please don't post more videos, just answer these questions.

Are you suggesting that aircraft engine exhaust does not leave a trail on cold air?

no, just saying there is a difference between a contrail [condensation, what you are talking about] and a chemtrail [chemical trail], an OBVIOUS difference.

Do you understand what the exhaust from aircraft engines is made up of?

CO2 & Water vapor??

Do you understand the physics of cloud formation?

not completely...

I just want short answers so I can see what your level of physics knowledge is.

easy answer, slim to none!

Let me be very clear. I have little to no trust of the government, but I do have some knowledge of science. I know that the US military had experimented on with spraying of chemicals in the past. Google "Zinc Cadmium Sulfide St. Louis study" and you'll find out about a real crime.

yes, i am aware

I know that aircraft are used for spraying insecticides on crops. I'm aware of "Cloud Seeding". I am also familiar with the concerns which climate scientists have raised over changes in cloud patterns caused by CONtrails from increased air traffic.

this concern also exists, the difference is discussed in Why in the world are they spraying?

None of these is the same as the blanket conspiracy known as "chemtrails".

that is correct!

let me be clear about this, i have NO science background. that has NOTHING to do with being able to see the difference between a vapor trail that lasts no more than 90 seconds, contrail, as opposed to a trail that lasts for hours and hours, chemtrail.

i am outside for 9 to 11 hours a day. since becoming aware of chemtrails, i watch for them.

i am not a mathematician either, but pi looks like 3.14etc to me.

i am not a waitress, but i know good service.

i am not a doctor, but it appears to me that dead people don't breathe.

i am not a professor, but i know that if you play close attention to something that you will probably learn more that if you are oblivious to it.

please explain, if you wish, just how long a vapor trail should last behind a jet at 30,000 feet. give as many variables on temp as you wish.

BONUS question:

how much time have spent actually looking at what are called chemtrails?

peace

[joesixpack]

What is the visible difference between a contrail and a chemtrail? Every time someone tells me that they can tell the difference it turns out that they are just describing another contrail. People have shown me pictures and videos and every one has just been a contrail of a type that they've never noticed before. I was shown one where a rainbow appeared around the trail. It was a rainbow just like the ones I have seen a million other times in high altitude cirrus clouds. People show me trails that last for hours. What makes you think that contrails can't last for hours? Contrails can last for a few minutes to several hours depending on the weather conditions. In fact, if weather conditions are just right, a contrail can turn a clear day to a hazy overcast day over the course of a couple of hours (google this phrase "Clouds Caused By Aircraft Exhaust May Warm The U.S. Climate" to get the NASA press release about this phenomenon)

I spend a lot of time looking at the sky myself. And I've been doing it for the better part of 50 years. According to the International Air Transport Association, the volume of passenger air travel has expanded over tenfold and air cargo traffic has expanded by a factor of 14 over the past 40 years. That fact alone would explain increase in frequency and persistence of contrails.

When a mass of hot moist air hits cold air, it causes the water vapor in the moist air to begin to condense. If there's dust in the air (or soot from combustion of fuel) it will condense quickly into a cloud. How long that cloud persists is very dependent on temperature, wind, barometric pressure and the relative humidity of the cold air mass. Under ideal conditions (No wind, high relative humidity), the cloud can last for many hours. With a tiny bit of wind, and high humidity, the cloud can spread and eventually cover the sky. But the conditions have to be just right. There are no "chemicals" required except water vapor and a tiny bit of soot.

[YusufNoor]

Please don't post more videos, just answer these questions.

Are you suggesting that aircraft engine exhaust does not leave a trail on cold air?

Do you understand what the exhaust from aircraft engines is made up of?

please provide your answer to this question

Do you understand the physics of cloud formation?

I just want short answers so I can see what your level of physics knowledge is.

Let me be very clear. I have little to no trust of the government, but I do have some knowledge of science. I know that the US military had experimented on with spraying of chemicals in the past. Google "Zinc Cadmium Sulfide St. Louis study" and you'll find out about a real crime. I know that aircraft are used for spraying insecticides on crops. I'm aware of "Cloud Seeding". I am also familiar with the concerns which climate scientists have raised over changes in cloud patterns caused by CONtrails from increased air traffic. None of these is the same as the blanket conspiracy known as "chemtrails".

sure, make me go all "google" and "wiki", it is NOT going to make me any smarter!!

according to wiki [DOH!], The largest part of most combustion gas is nitrogen (N2), water vapor (H2O) (except with pure-carbon fuels), and carbon dioxide (CO2) (except for fuels without carbon); these are not toxic or noxious (although carbon dioxide is generally recognized as a greenhouse gas that contributes to global warming). A relatively small part of combustion gas is undesirable noxious or toxic substances, such as carbon monoxide (CO) from incomplete combustion, hydrocarbons (properly indicated as CxHy, but typically shown simply as "HC" on emissions-test slips) from unburnt fuel, nitrogen oxides (NOx) from excessive combustion temperatures, Ozone (O3), and particulate matter (mostly soot).

i don't see silver iodide listed as a typical particulate in jet exhaust. according to this article on msnbc, silver iodide is used to seed clouds.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17542815/#.UHoQmVGvOiE

as a scientist, what is silver iodide and is there ANY toxicity to it?

is silver iodide normally found in jet exhaust?

could any damage be done to ecology the silver iodide lands on the ground?

could silver iodide change the ph in the soil?

what effect could that have on plantlife?

could humans respiratory systems be effected by the addition of silver iodide to their lungs?

peace

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[joesixpack]

Silver Iodide is used for cloud seeding only. I initially thought it was used because of some property related to it's dispersal but I looked it up before I posted and it turns out that it has more to do with the shape of the particle and how it allows supercooled water to sublimate onto it. According to the wikipedia, only about 50,000 kg gets used worldwide per year, with each application only using 50 grams or less.

It would be toxic if you ate that much I imagine, but the quantity that actually reaches the ground is so low that it's undetectable above the naturally occurring silver iodide in the soil. In fact, you're exposed to more silver from one single filling in your tooth.

When you're talking about "toxicity" you must remember that it's the dosage that makes the poison. A large dose of a particular substance may be quite toxic, but smaller doses will be well within your bodies ability to remove, and will present no negative effects. I'll ask my buddy next time
I talk to him. He's a professor of environmental toxicology, so I imagine he's got some info on that.

The entire point of all this is that there are plenty of bad things that our government (and other peoples governments too) are doing. You need to exercise some skepticism with these sorts of claims. It seems like anyone with a Youtube account makes a specious claim and it goes viral. Look at vaccinations for example. I talk to people who are convinced that they're some sort of drug company conspiracy and they won't get their kids vaccinated. Here in WA there's been a record number of cases of pertussis (whooping cough) because people aren't getting their kids vaccinated. I hadn't gotten a booster and I caught it from a kid at my sons' elementary school. It sucks for an adult, but if a child gets it it's life threatening. Infants who haven't been vaccinated are at much greater risk if they're exposed.

Not examining these conspiracies critically can have real consequences, not the least of which is that it distracts attention from the real issues. Provocateurs and agitators do a land office business by channeling peoples outrage and anger into safer avenues. Don't fall for it.

[YusufNoor]

:sl:

did i ever say how sorry i feel for the moderators?

anyhow, would you permit me and the doctor to continue our discussion on chemtrails here?

JazakAllah khayr!

ma Salaama

[Muhammad]

:wasalamex

anyhow, would you permit me and the doctor to continue our discussion on chemtrails here?

I've moved the relevant posts here.

[joesixpack]

LOL, I thought this was getting a bit off topic. Apologies.

[YusufNoor]

:sl:

thanks Muhammad!

back to joe:

here is how i see it, as simpleton as it may sound.

1 we have clouds

2 we have the disturbances to the weather/climate caused by massive air travel

3 we have "man made clouds" due to "weather manipulation"

i see #3 as chemtrails. you have whatever "the usual suspects are" that are emitted or caused by regular, massive air travel. ADDED to this effect are chemicals, silver iodide [and some are finding aluminum, barium and strontium as well] that are PURPOSEFULLY ADDED to the normal "exhaust effects" of air travel. that just seems to be as undeniable conclusion to the equation: contrails + chemicals = chemtrails.

now, because i can SEE the chemtrails, and i KNOW there are chemicals in them, they seem to be more "significant" than contrails alone.

you SEEM to be saying that #3 doesn't EXIST at all. clearly, it does.

are you really saying that #2 is much more "consequential", thus making #3 less "significant?"

from my point of view, massive air travel [with whatever the consequences to the environment] is NOT going to change soon. [well, unless Americans protest TSA Gestapo tactics by NOT flying. i am in THAT group, but my limited travel makes it of near to no consequence.] #3 CAN be changed, we just stop it.

now as for #2, i honestly did not consider it much until i watched "Why?" and "Skywatcher". HOWEVER, as we in Seattle "surf the jet stream" at times, i was pondering the effects of "jet rivers" MORE than jet exhaust.

it appears to me, you say otherwise.

comment?

peace

[joesixpack]

I think you're running into a problem here because you claim that you can SEE the chemtrails, but what you're missing here is that you really have no way to distinguish one from another simply by observing from the ground. As I said before, I have yet to be shown the difference in appearance between Contrails and Chemtrails. Please tell me what the visual distinction is.

Secondly, the chemicals which you have listed are not a component of jet exhaust. Silver iodide are currently used for cloud seeding. Cloud seeding requires a cloud, otherwise no rain is produced. Cloud seeding does not create clouds at all. Also, cloud seeding takes place at much lower altitudes than jet contrails form. The climatic effect of contrails is an unintended consequence of air travel. One could just as easily make the argument that smog was a government conspiracy because cars are producing it. Smog is an unintended consequence of driving, not a government plot.

Thirdly, the additional chemicals which you have listed have not been demonstrated to have any connection with contrails. In fact, if you were to consider critically the claims, it would be apparent that the claims of measurable levels of chemicals hitting the ground from "chemtrails" would be preposterous. Imagine dumping a bucket of water from an altitude of 300 meters. It would not hit the ground as a mass, it would break up as it fell and even a slight wind would disperse it. By the time it reached the ground it would be a very spread out mist of water droplets. It would be so diffuse that would hardly get the ground wet. Now imagine dumping it from ten times that altitude. Trace chemicals added to jet exhaust would probably be below the threshold of detection.

Does the US airforce currently do research into weather manipulation? I'm pretty certain that they do. Are all the contrails I see related to that? No. Are any of them related? Maybe. I would imagine that the airforce has probably done some experimental use of contrails, and they've probably put some crap in the atmosphere too. But I'll bet that 99.99999999999999999% of the contrails that you've seen are nothing more than contrails.

[White Rose]

Sorry to barge in here. But this topic interests me a lot.

What are the effects of using cloud seeding? and how can a regular person tell the use of cloud seeding?

[YusufNoor]

I think you're running into a problem here because you claim that you can SEE the chemtrails, but what you're missing here is that you really have no way to distinguish one from another simply by observing from the ground. As I said before, I have yet to be shown the difference in appearance between Contrails and Chemtrails. Please tell me what the visual distinction is.

regular contrails dissipate at a seemingly uniform rate as the plane travels across the sky. "what appears to be irregular contrails" do not dissipate as quickly and instead slowly waft down forming long pencil like "clouds" that remain visible for many, many hours.

Secondly, the chemicals which you have listed are not a component of jet exhaust. Silver iodide are currently used for cloud seeding. Cloud seeding requires a cloud, otherwise no rain is produced. Cloud seeding does not create clouds at all. Also, cloud seeding takes place at much lower altitudes than jet contrails form. The climatic effect of contrails is an unintended consequence of air travel. One could just as easily make the argument that smog was a government conspiracy because cars are producing it. Smog is an unintended consequence of driving, not a government plot.

Thirdly, the additional chemicals which you have listed have not been demonstrated to have any connection with contrails. In fact, if you were to consider critically the claims, it would be apparent that the claims of measurable levels of chemicals hitting the ground from "chemtrails" would be preposterous. Imagine dumping a bucket of water from an altitude of 300 meters. It would not hit the ground as a mass, it would break up as it fell and even a slight wind would disperse it. By the time it reached the ground it would be a very spread out mist of water droplets. It would be so diffuse that would hardly get the ground wet. Now imagine dumping it from ten times that altitude. Trace chemicals added to jet exhaust would probably be below the threshold of detection.

Does the US airforce currently do research into weather manipulation? I'm pretty certain that they do. Are all the contrails I see related to that? No. Are any of them related? Maybe. I would imagine that the airforce has probably done some experimental use of contrails, and they've probably put some crap in the atmosphere too. But I'll bet that 99.99999999999999999% of the contrails that you've seen are nothing more than contrails.

are you a member of the site megabunk.org?

[joesixpack]

regular contrails dissipate at a seemingly uniform rate as the plane travels across the sky. "what appears to be irregular contrails" do not dissipate as quickly and instead slowly waft down forming long pencil like "clouds" that remain visible for many, many hours.

The persistence and shape of a contrail is completely independent of its composition. As I said above, the wind, temperature, and relative humidity have a huge effect on the appearance of a contrail. As I said above, if there are low or no winds, and the relative humidity and temperature are right, the contrail will last for many hours.

What is "Megabunk.org"?

[YusufNoor]

:sl:

i think joe is in denial. and yet, i notice he did not deny being a participant in megabunk; which is of course METAbunk! [i don't deny being stupid :nervous:]


a few points:

joe: "I think you're running into a problem here because you claim that you can SEE the chemtrails, but what you're missing here is that you really have no way to distinguish one from another simply by observing from the ground. As I said before, I have yet to be shown the difference in appearance between Contrails and Chemtrails. Please tell me what the visual distinction is".

this is for others, as well. this is some video taken by Scott Stevens. he will explain. it is a video he shot on Saturday. now, i know joe won't watch a vid, but for those of you that ARE interested, Scotty gonna break it down for ya! [give it 20 minutes joe]




joe sez "Secondly, the chemicals which you have listed are not a component of jet exhaust. Silver iodide are currently used for cloud seeding. Cloud seeding requires a cloud, otherwise no rain is produced. Cloud seeding does not create clouds at all"

see video above :p

joe sez "Imagine dumping a bucket of water from an altitude of 300 meters. It would not hit the ground as a mass, it would break up as it fell and even a slight wind would disperse it. By the time it reached the ground it would be a very spread out mist of water droplets. It would be so diffuse that would hardly get the ground wet. Now imagine dumping it from ten times that altitude. Trace chemicals added to jet exhaust would probably be below the threshold of detection."

i tried to imagine just how many buckets would be in a cloud. so...let us say that there are 500 tons of "cloud forming chemicals" in the sky above you [just go outside and look up]; when this 500 tons of "cloud forming chemicals" reach the ground, how much will they weigh? ;D

is 500 tons enough to measure? :omg:

do you think 500 tons of "cloud forming chemicals" wafting in the sky above you [forming clouds] could, in theory :hiding:, have an impact on the atmosphere?


joe sez "Does the US airforce currently do research into weather manipulation? I'm pretty certain that they do. Are all the contrails I see related to that? No. Are any of them related? Maybe. I would imagine that the airforce has probably done some experimental use of contrails, and they've probably put some crap in the atmosphere too"

actually, chemtrails are spread both by commercial aircraft as well as military. chemtrails are also spread by some aircraft.

now, chemtrails, along with other manipulator actions, are used to guide, feed and help direct already existing storm formations. they don't make it rain, per se, they are used to manipulate the atmosphere [OK, there are biologicals in there too, we can wait to get to that]

here is a graph showing HAARP waves TOTALLY MAXING OUT and going OFF THE SCALE, just Sunday morning [right where Sandy is headed!]

http://www.haarpstatus.com/status.html

now, here is michelle showing the effects of chemtrails, Tesla Type Array [TTA] infrasonic undulation sound waves. btw, this will totally freak you out! ['cept joe]



to keep me safe from "anyone" claiming this is a "conspiracy theory", here is an "official" US Government Conference, 29th Conference on Hurricanes and Tropical Meteorology held on 10-14 May 2010, at Tucson, AZ!!!!!!!!!!!! :haha:

https://ams.confex.com/ams/29Hurrica...panded_608.htm

some of these presentations were awesome! i watched some of these [you'll have to download a tony adobe thing to view them.

so...get out your :popcorn:

i'm gonna go find a "buxomy" type lady and see ifin' i can't get her to sing a few bars! :clever:

[White Rose]

You know even though I agree with many things you pointed out, I just cant see how such a massive force which is hurricane can be man made. Sure they can help it grow? but to fully form it is a huge stretch me thinks :hmm:

[YusufNoor]

You know even though I agree with many things you pointed out, I just cant see how such a massive force which is hurricane can be man made. Sure they can help it grow? but to fully form it is a huge stretch me thinks :hmm:

you are correct, actually. it is NOT man-made. YES, they can only "make it grow"

what you may not know. they have been doing this since the 50's, that's a long time to PRACTICE! it is like being a doctor, you TRY different things to see what happens. they EXPERIMENT. they don't have "abracadabra" type magic.

i knew you said you were interested. watch the Scott Stevens video. that is his tape from YESTERDAY. consider...by the end, the ENTIRE sky get's "painted. Scott has been observing this since '04. he has a blog called "weather wars". look it up and check the pilot's page on it too. i live near Seattle, i've been watching for 2 years now. MOST of the time, NOT always, the ENTIRE sky here gets painted as well. i have even seen "not a cloud in the sky" day turn into a gigantic chem cloud. there are lots of vids in Scot's work, he may be perusing this full time.

there is also HAARP. that is beyond me. but there is a HAARP site, they show the effects. the link is in that post. THAT graph is from Saturday, iirc. the white are in the NE is OFF THE CHARTS! they have NEVER EVER seen it that strong before! EVER! it is OVER the rating. [but this thread isn't about HAARP]

in revmichellehopkins' video [in my last post again], she shows how the storm is being manipulated. it is very interesting. and scary. she shows the HAARP effects as well. i don't know HAARP much at all. watch it full screen. [it IS beyond me though, too!]

now, that conference. it is from 2 years ago. i watched some of the presentation. esp 2C Hurricane Aerosol and Microphysics Program (HAMP)
that isn't a "conspiracy theory" convention, it is THE SCIENTISTS THAT ARE DOING THIS!!!!!! i don't know how Michelle got the links. they are POWERPOINT presentations. maybe they are supposed to be classified. i don't know, BUT YOU CAN WATCH THEM!!! [you do have to download an adobe app, but they start bright up!]

https://ams.confex.com/ams/29Hurrica...sion_24276.htm

all this takes some getting used to, and i ain't no "rocket scientist", BUT THOSE GUYS ARE!!!^^^^^

don't think of one plane. all 50 states work on this. these guys are messing with the planet big time. watch Scot's vid, even just for 20 minutes. he's been on this for 8 years. he explains alot. his blog is good too, check it out.

save Michelle's vid, but it is only 11 minutes. she shows the MAGNITUDE of what is going on. some folks were following the storm BEFORE IT happened. i have a HAARP graph from last week. dude was like "uh oh. something is going on like we haven't seen. this was BEFORE it went off the chart, it is from the 21st. the headline was, "attack in progress?"

http://beforeitsnews.com/paranormal/...m-2444404.html

Michelle show the path the storm was projected to take on Wed, them Sat HAARP went off the charts. might have been Friday. i don't remember.

but Scot and the Conference PROVE the weather manipulation by "aerosols" and "particulants". that was the point i have been seeking to show. NOT how much they can, just that they DO!

ma Salaama

[soloqi]

it could have been HAARP, or the result of a butterfly flapping its wing on the other side of the planet. Maybe it is HAARP, maybe not but unless somebody can put forward concrete proof, tis speculation at best. with the internet awash with difinformation...what are the mainstream media not reporting on... I can share some light on this but if any of you can keep a secret so can I.

Gnosis