Disturbing Statements in Jewish Scripture

[Masuma]

Asalamu alikum to my Muslim brothers and sisters!

I was reading one book and came across something which I found extremely disturbing. I would like to know if any Jew or Christian defends this clear offense here and how apologetic one might get in proving these utter lies to be true word of God. As an un-biased reader, my response is a total shock that how people just absorb such itchy kind of stuff without bothering a thought as to the veracity of their religion.

I want to know why these statements are there and if you say they are nothing what I'm understanding them to be then what is their context?

Gittin 69a . To heal his flesh a Jew should take dust that lies within the
shadow of an outdoor toilet, mix with honey and eat it.

Yebamoth 63a. States that Adam had sexual intercourse with all the animals
in the Garden of Eden.

Yebamoth 63a. Declares that agriculture is the lowest of occupations.

Sanhedrin 55b. A Jew may marry a three year old girl (specifically, three
years "and a day" old).

Sanhedrin 54b. A Jew may have sex with a child as long as the child is less
than nine years old.

Kethuboth 11b. "When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is
nothing."

Yebamoth 59b. A woman who had intercourse with a beast is eligible to
marry a Jewish priest. A woman who has sex with a demon is also eligible to
marry a Jewish priest.

Abodah Zarah 17a. States that there is not a ***** in the world that the
Talmudic sage Rabbi Eleazar has not had sex with.

Hagigah 27a. States that no rabbi can ever go to hell.

Baba Mezia 59b. A rabbi debates God and defeats Him. God admits the
rabbi won the debate.

Gittin 70a. The Rabbis taught: "On coming from a privy (outdoor toilet) a
man should not have sexual intercourse till he has waited long enough to
walk half a mile, because the demon of the privy is with him for that time; if
he does, his children will be epileptic."

Gittin 69b. To heal the disease of pleurisy ("catarrh") a Jew should "take the
excrement of a white dog and knead it with balsam, but if he can possibly
avoid it he should not eat the dog’s excrement as it loosens the limbs."

Pesahim 111a. It is forbidden for dogs, women or palm trees to pass between
two men, nor may others walk between dogs, women or palm trees. Special
dangers are involved if the women are menstruating or sitting at a
crossroads.

Menahoth 43b-44a. A Jewish man is obligated to say the following prayer
every day: Thank you God for not making me a gentile, a woman or a slave.

Source http://www.islamicbulletin.com/free_...h_converts.pdf
Page 28

[Masuma]

Bump!

P.S: why moderators take too long to approve the post? it causes inconvenience. =[

[truthseeker63]

These quotes are true many Rabbis view Gentiles or Non Jews as Cattle.

[truthseeker63]

Genocide Advocated by the Talmud

Minor Tractates. Soferim 15, Rule 10. This is the saying of Rabbi Simon ben Yohai: Tob shebe goyyim harog ("Even the best of the gentiles should all be killed").

This passage is from the original Hebrew of the Babylonian Talmud as quoted by the 1907 Jewish Encyclopedia, published by Funk and Wagnalls and compiled by Isidore Singer, under the entry, "Gentile," (p. 617).

This original Talmud passage has been concealed in translation. The Jewish Encyclopedia states that, "...in the various versions the reading has been altered, 'The best among the Egyptians' being generally substituted." In the Soncino version: "the best of the heathens" (Minor Tractates, Soferim 41a-b].

Israelis annually take part in a national pilgrimage to the grave of Simon ben Yohai, to honor this rabbi who advocated the extermination of non-Jews. (Jewish Press, June 9, 1989, p. 56B).

On Purim, Feb. 25, 1994, Israeli army officer Baruch Goldstein, an orthodox Jew from Brooklyn, massacred 40 Palestinian civilians, including children, while they knelt in prayer in a mosque. Goldstein was a disciple of the late Brooklyn Rabbi Meir Kahane, who told CBS News that his teaching that Arabs are "dogs" is derived "from the Talmud." (CBS 60 Minutes, "Kahane").

University of Jerusalem Prof. Ehud Sprinzak described Kahane and Goldstein's philosophy: "They believe it's God's will that they commit violence against goyim, a Hebrew term for non-Jews." (NY Daily News, Feb. 26, 1994, p. 5).

Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg declared, "We have to recognize that Jewish blood and the blood of a goy are not the same thing." (NY Times, June 6, 1989, p.5).

Rabbi Yaacov Perrin said, "One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail." (NY Daily News, Feb. 28, 1994, p.6).

http://www.revisionisthistory.org/talmudtruth.html

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

[glo]

I don't think posts here are moderated, only the first thread starter, Masuma.

The problem may be that we have no Jewish members here at the moment who may be familiar with and able to comment on your post. (I don't think we have had any Jewish members for along while. Strange, that ...)

[Masuma]

These quotes are true many Rabbis view Gentiles or Non Jews as Cattle.

Asalamu alikum wr wb!
Oh that's too bad!

I don't think posts here are moderated, only the first thread starter, Masuma.

Yes I meant the opening passage, first thread starter. I was being so impatient for the replies and then on top of that, the post had to be moderated =[

The problem may be that we have no Jewish members here at the moment who may be familiar with and able to comment on your post. (I don't think we have had any Jewish members for along while. Strange, that ...)

Yes I understand. But the statements are quite clear and EXTREMELY disturbing to me! The Jews won't belie that. all i wanted to see was how ignorantly one defends such things!

There are many other statements too mentioned in the BIBLE, very degrading to women and statements like Prophet David was an idolator or a Prophet being an adulterer! Why don't the Christians and Jews question that?!?

Their not questioning such statements in their "holy" books make me even more confused!

[truthseeker63]

I never said I hated Jews I do have a dislike for Judaism many of it's teachings but I don't dislike Jews for being Jews.

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Masuma;

I cannot speak for our absent Jewish friends, but I do not recognise any of the quotes as being from the Bible. Just taking your first quote about Adam and the animals -

Yebamoth 63a. States that Adam had sexual intercourse with all the animals
in the Garden of Eden.

this is the version from the Bible.

Genesis 2
18 The LORD God said, ‘It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.’
19 Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds in the sky and all the wild animals.
But for Adam[f] no suitable helper was found. 21 So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs[g] and then closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib[h] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.
23 The man said,
‘This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called “woman”,
for she was taken out of man.’
24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.
25 Adam and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.

In the spirit of praying for a greater interfaith understanding.

Eric

[جوري]

Jews prefered Aaron over Moses and the Talmud and Mishna over the Torah. And their 'sages' certainly got creative in their writing so those are the 'fatwas' of their 'scholars'.
Torah came from Allah swt and of course they colored it with what they wanted!

:w:

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Masuma;

There are many other statements too mentioned in the BIBLE, very degrading to women and statements like Prophet David was an idolator or a Prophet being an adulterer! Why don't the Christians and Jews question that?!?

If you search for a worst interpretation of any scripture then you will find it, but how do you search for a good interpretation from the same scriptures?

Scriptures are intended to be challenging, they should inspire us to change for the better.


All the prophets in the Bible are human first, and they have human failings some worse than others, the exception being Jesus who we believe to be the Son of God. Despite all their failings, the prophets come with a message and are an inspiration to thier own generation and to future generations.

In the spirit of searching for the good in all people

Eric

[جوري]

the exception being Jesus

Greetings Eric,

That is questionable, according to Lutherans Jesus committed some pretty abominable sins!


peace

[Masuma]

Asalamu alikum wr wb!

Jews prefered Aaron over Moses and the Talmud and Mishna over the Torah. And their 'sages' certainly got creative in their writing so those are the 'fatwas' of their 'scholars'.
Torah came from Allah swt and of course they colored it with what they wanted!

:w:

Oh God! Now I'm finding Judasim really messed up!
So those statements do exist in Talmud?

Jazakumullahu Khairan respected sister for the above info . :statisfie

But why the Jews "sages" not arrived at the correct interpretations and conclusions of Torah in Talmud? I mean, this is their "fiqh" kind of thing (if that's the right word)? Jews spent many years discussing and debating the interpretations of the verses of Torah and this is what they have come up with?! +o(

Why did they give way to creativity?!

[Masuma]

Greetings and peace be with you Masuma;

I cannot speak for our absent Jewish friends, but I do not recognise any of the quotes as being from the Bible.
Eric

Greetings Eric and peace be with you too. (May Allah show you the right way!)
No, those are from the Talmud and I came across them while reading the book the link to which I've given above.

If you search for a worst interpretation of any scripture then you will find it, but how do you search for a good interpretation from the same scriptures?

I don't understand this point :/

All the prophets in the Bible are human first, and they have human failings some worse than others, the exception being Jesus who we believe to be the Son of God. Despite all their failings, the prophets come with a message and are an inspiration to thier own generation and to future generations.

This is depressing! So that is how you people choose to ignore and overlook such offensive verses? That's your way of defending the clear cut degrading and disturbing accounts given in Bible (in your case).

Bible consider Prophets to be humans and so can fall prey to sins like adultery and idolatory etc. This is Bible's teaching?

Well in Islam, we consider Prophets to be "Masoom" (innocent) and they are not guilty of any such crimes. I believe Islam's version to be correct and don't take Prophet David and Soloman (may Allah's peace and mercy be upon them) to be sinful people.

[Who Am I?]

:sl:

As a former Christian, I can elaborate on this.

The Bible talks about David (pbuh) committing adultery with the wife of another man (Bathsheba), and then having her husband murdered so that he could marry her himself. God curses David and Bathsheba by causing their firstborn son to die in infancy. Their second son was Soloman (pbuh).

Now I should point out that also in the Bible, David admitted his sins of adultery and murder, asked for forgiveness, and was forgiven by God. The books of Samuel, First Kings, and First Chronicles tell the story of David. Most of the Pslams in the Bible are believed to have been written by David.

Now whether or not those stories from the Bible are true, I cannot say. But I will say this. David has always been one of my favorite people from the Bible, even before I knew anything about him in Islam. He was a warrior, a skilled leader of men, loved and adored by the people when he became king, yet for all of this, he was not so arrogant that he refused to admit his mistakes and ask God for forgiveness.

I can only hope that I too am as humble as he was, and ask God to forgive me of my sins.

[Aprender]

I don't understand this point :/

What he is saying here is that the Scriptures in Christianity can be interpreted in many different ways. There are quite a few different translations of the Bible. I'll use one interpretation that is very popular now, I hate to bring it up but it's always being talked about these days, from Leviticus where it states that a man shall not lay in bed with another man. ^{Leviticus 18:22} “‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.Most Christians view that as the prohibition for the practice of homosexuality but some do not. I've even heard some Christians go as far as to say that it only applied to a certain group of people at that time in human history and not everyone as a whole.

I know some Christian gays who state that the people of Sodom and Gomorrah were punished because they were rude mannered people, not because they were intimate with members of the same sex. Some even go so far as the state that because Jesus (peace be upon him) never spoke out about homosexuality that it is an OK practice.

Another example could be the interpretation about false prophets. Matthew 7:15 "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves" The Bible warns about people claiming to be Christians but bad intentioned at heart out to mislead people from the truth and seek worldly gain. When I used to go to church, the pastors would use this as a way to say that the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) fell into that category because he did not teach the trinity or the demi-god status of Isa (peace be upon him) and that he was the savior but rather taught the people to worship One God. Then they would continue saying that the wars he was involved in and the wives that he had was truth to this. (Even though in early Christian history some Christian men did in fact have more than one wife at times.) While other Christians use that to talk about people who lead churches only to gain money, cars, and a status of power in the community when they really could care less about the religion.

It's a matter of interpretation. I suppose people can use a piece of scripture and use it to justify anything if they don't understand the history of it and the specific context in which it was revealed. You see this now with Islam. People who don't know anything about it or use bad English translations to demonize our religion.

With some stories in the Bible, the shortcomings of the human prophets there are excused because they can be used as examples for Christians showing even the prophets messed up majorly sometimes but they mended their ways and moved on from it. Unfortunately I've even known some Christians to use this as a justification for continuing to do sins with drunkenness, lewd behavior as well and saying that Jesus (peace be upon him) died for those sins so they'll be excused for it. They just have to try to stop and if they can't they're in the clear anyway. :( Not all think this way though.

May Allah guide us all and help us worship Him in the correct way. Ameeen.

[Masuma]

Asalamu alikum wr wb!
Thanks alot for the replies!

Isn't there anything solidly decided in the scripture (now considering Bible)? I mean is everything in there just liable to interpretations and eveyone suggesting the meanings of the verses as they like? No verses with established interpretation for all the generations of Chiristians to take them as they are for all ages?

In Islam, we have many rulings in shariah which can't be changed. I mean punishing the sins of adultery, performing religious duties etc.

About the account of David and Soloman (may peace be upon them both), some interpretations you people have given above and I'm grateful for the reply. If we look from a different angle, doesn't it pose a problem for the Christians when they see that if such spiritually high figures can commit such abominable crimes, then how will a simple human ever be able to prevent it?
But then they have Jesus dying for the sins of people, right? And so they can continue their ways of living...

[Masuma]

:sl:


Now whether or not those stories from the Bible are true, I cannot say.

Walikum asalam wa rehmatullahi wa barakatuh!
But shouldn't we Muslims believe all Prophets to be innocent (Ma'soom) and thus not guilty of such sins!? Quran clarifies the matter and lifts all such filthy allegations from them, alhamdulillah!

[Masuma]

About Talmud, this is itself a book of interpretations of verses of Torah. And these interpretations are , well, not nice. It disgusts a person. And jews regard Talmud above other such books. Then why reading these statements doesn't give rise to questions in their minds? :exhausted

[Insaanah]

:sl:

But why the Jews "sages" not arrived at the correct interpretations and conclusions of Torah in Talmud? I mean, this is their "fiqh" kind of thing (if that's the right word)? Jews spent many years discussing and debating the interpretations of the verses of Torah and this is what they have come up with?!

Why did they give way to creativity?!

Their not questioning such statements in their "holy" books make me even more confused!

Why are you letting what they do with their holy books confuse you?

Allah has told us in the Qur'an that they changed their scriptures, concealed parts of it from the people, twisted interpretations etc. There's no confusion there.

Now, how they defend specific statements make no difference to us.

If you're really interested, if you google some of the references, there are Jewish sites which give their explanations for such quotes.

One may think how can they possibly believe or defend that, why can't they see it's not from God etc. But as we know, people do follow scriptures which we as Muslims believe to have been changed, and statements, which they believe to be correct and have explanations for, that sadden and shock us. What does Allah say about the concept of Him begetting a son? That it is a lie, and a monstrous thing at which the heavens almost rupture therefrom and the earth splits open and the mountains collapse in devastation. (19:88-91)

At the end of the day, we need to give account on how we practised our deen. Yes we can give da'wah, and learn what others believe, but others will believe what they believe, and have their justifications for it too.

[Who Am I?]

Walikum asalam wa rehmatullahi wa barakatuh!
But shouldn't we Muslims believe all Prophets to be innocent (Ma'soom) and thus not guilty of such sins!? Quran clarifies the matter and lifts all such filthy allegations from them, alhamdulillah!

:sl:

Honestly, for me, whether or not the prophets sinned is not really the issue anymore. The real lesson is one of redemption and forgiveness...

[Hulk]

[Logikon]

But shouldn't we Muslims believe all Prophets to be innocent and thus not guilty of such sins!?

Quran clarifies the matter and lifts all such filthy allegations from them

Christians and Jews believe that David and Moses and all the rest were great men. However as men they can sin.

More than that they can humble themselves before god and ask forgiveness.

The morale is that if great men can humble themselves before god then everybody else can too.

Proof that Moses sinned. Anger and rage is a sin. Moses got angry when the people worshipped the golden calf. In a rage he smashed the 10 commandments.

.
.

[Futuwwa]

Most of the Talmud is just a collection of debates and the commentary of individual rabbis, and has no normative standing.